You're describing every other Trek captain too, not just Janeway. Kirk violated both Prime Directives on multiple occasions. Picard as well. Sisko fabricated a lie, which led to the murder of a Romulan Senator. I don't see how you're able to single out Janeway as such a horrible human being and Captain. She did what she had to do under extraordinary circumstances. Starfleet and the Federation seem to agree with that since she was promoted to Admiral.
The difference is that Sisko admitted, at least privately, that what he and Garak did in "In the Pale Moonlight" was morally wrong, despite being (probably) necessary to win the Dominion War, and that feeling he could live with having done so was damning. And face it: In real life, the original plan, which did not involve murder, is called a false flag operation, which is something that real militaries and intelligence agencies do all the time.
Picard? Yes, he was a party to negligent genocide using the Prime Directive as a shield and he had his head up his TRIBBLE about Starfleet's military function, but he was at least consistently written as an idealist. And Kirk's entire characterization was "cowboy with a phaser" and he got called out on it by later series.
Janeway had no consistent characterization, and what she did in "Scorpion" is called "aiding the enemy", a crime punishable by death in real militaries. But because she's the wonderful protagonist who can do no wrong, Starfleet apparently rewards a crime that carries the same penalty as murder or treason with a three-pay-grade bump. Because legal systems work that way (or, my preference, Janeway et al. conspired to cover it up, which I now want to work into a Foundry mission).
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
They need to get him into STO for some VO work! Weyoun would be easy enough, we just dug up some "long lost" clone in stasis somewhere, he could be an integral part of a Dominion season storyline.
And since we have no idea how long Andorians live, can we just say they live for hundreds of years and get Shran in the game too? Maybe he's related to Shon.
I really really REALLY wish the next time they do a Shon scene in STO, they have him call Admiral Quinn pink skin. Just as a nod to Shran.
Would people please stop comparing shran and shon? That's an insult to shran. Shon will never have a fraction of charisma, cunningness and general awesomeness of shran.
They have nothing in common but their blue skin and their antennas.
While shran was awesome enterprise had a few good other characters. Pitifully the series focused far to much on archer instead of the actual good ones.
I personally liked Malcolm Reed and Hoshi Sato a lot more troi or crusher or Kira or... Well lot cast members if the series considered as good.(actually I'd rate both over any voyager character..)
The difference is that Sisko admitted, at least privately, that what he and Garak did in "In the Pale Moonlight" was morally wrong, despite being (probably) necessary to win the Dominion War, and that feeling he could live with having done so was damning. And face it: In real life, the original plan, which did not involve murder, is called a false flag operation, which is something that real militaries and intelligence agencies do all the time.
Picard? Yes, he was a party to negligent genocide using the Prime Directive as a shield and he had his head up his TRIBBLE about Starfleet's military function, but he was at least consistently written as an idealist. And Kirk's entire characterization was "cowboy with a phaser" and he got called out on it by later series.
Janeway had no consistent characterization, and what she did in "Scorpion" is called "aiding the enemy", a crime punishable by death in real militaries. But because she's the wonderful protagonist who can do no wrong, Starfleet apparently rewards a crime that carries the same penalty as murder or treason with a three-pay-grade bump. Because legal systems work that way (or, my preference, Janeway et al. conspired to cover it up, which I now want to work into a Foundry mission).
THIS^^^^^^^ THIS EXACTLY.
Janeway would be a fricking disaster for any military organization.
Janeway had no consistent characterization, and what she did in "Scorpion" is called "aiding the enemy", a crime punishable by death in real militaries. But because she's the wonderful protagonist who can do no wrong, Starfleet apparently rewards a crime that carries the same penalty as murder or treason with a three-pay-grade bump. Because legal systems work that way (or, my preference, Janeway et al. conspired to cover it up, which I now want to work into a Foundry mission).
I admit that I cringed when "Admiral" Janeway was giving Picard his orders in Nemesis. I mean he had to know that he was a far more successful and competent leader, right? I guess he took the advice he got from Kirk to heart and refused promotion.
The difference is that Sisko admitted, at least privately, that what he and Garak did in "In the Pale Moonlight" was morally wrong, despite being (probably) necessary to win the Dominion War, and that feeling he could live with having done so was damning. And face it: In real life, the original plan, which did not involve murder, is called a false flag operation, which is something that real militaries and intelligence agencies do all the time.
Picard? Yes, he was a party to negligent genocide using the Prime Directive as a shield and he had his head up his TRIBBLE about Starfleet's military function, but he was at least consistently written as an idealist. And Kirk's entire characterization was "cowboy with a phaser" and he got called out on it by later series.
Janeway had no consistent characterization, and what she did in "Scorpion" is called "aiding the enemy", a crime punishable by death in real militaries. But because she's the wonderful protagonist who can do no wrong, Starfleet apparently rewards a crime that carries the same penalty as murder or treason with a three-pay-grade bump. Because legal systems work that way (or, my preference, Janeway et al. conspired to cover it up, which I now want to work into a Foundry mission).
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" - Sun Tzu.
If Janeway hadn't cooperated with the Borg, the fear was that Species 8472 would wipe out all life in surrounding systems. At the time, no one knew the Borg had started the conflict, and upon learning that, the only reason Janeway continued to cooperate was because the Borg threatened to assimilate Voyager.
Also, the British Army cooperated with the USSR in Yugoslavia - maybe not formally, but we consciously allowed them to beat us to our target.
Suggesting military units NEVER cooperate with their enemies in extenuating circumstances is, in my opinion, deeply naive.
They need to get him into STO for some VO work! Weyoun would be easy enough, we just dug up some "long lost" clone in stasis somewhere, he could be an integral part of a Dominion season storyline.
And since we have no idea how long Andorians live, can we just say they live for hundreds of years and get Shran in the game too? Maybe he's related to Shon.
Dominion faction. Weyoun 317 (or thereabouts) as quest-giver for first 20 or 30 levels.
Made of win.
Maybe have a descendant? I think that soft-canon says that Andorians live about as long as Humans.
Dominion faction. Weyoun 317 (or thereabouts) as quest-giver for first 20 or 30 levels.
Made of win.
Maybe have a descendant? I think that soft-canon says that Andorians live about as long as Humans.
They said that the weyoun killed in what yoe leave behind was the last one, especially since the cloning facility producing weyouns was destroyed.
Although I don't get that logic... They did have weyouns in the gamma quadrant before they set even a food into the alpha quadrant. Were those moved? Were all genetic weyoun probes moved there and no backup? Makes no sense to me...
As for shran... We do not know what happened to him. He might have time traveled or something. Or, if just for an episode, we might travel back in time to meet him.
The difference is that Sisko admitted, at least privately, that what he and Garak did in "In the Pale Moonlight" was morally wrong, despite being (probably) necessary to win the Dominion War, and that feeling he could live with having done so was damning. And face it: In real life, the original plan, which did not involve murder, is called a false flag operation, which is something that real militaries and intelligence agencies do all the time.
Picard? Yes, he was a party to negligent genocide using the Prime Directive as a shield and he had his head up his TRIBBLE about Starfleet's military function, but he was at least consistently written as an idealist. And Kirk's entire characterization was "cowboy with a phaser" and he got called out on it by later series.
Janeway had no consistent characterization, and what she did in "Scorpion" is called "aiding the enemy", a crime punishable by death in real militaries. But because she's the wonderful protagonist who can do no wrong, Starfleet apparently rewards a crime that carries the same penalty as murder or treason with a three-pay-grade bump. Because legal systems work that way (or, my preference, Janeway et al. conspired to cover it up, which I now want to work into a Foundry mission).
Battle of Wolf 359. I mean really, Picard wouldn't be serving in Starfleet after that, let alone captaining a ship.
So it's fiction. Let it go. Janeway is nowhere near as bad as you make her out to be. Well other than mating with her conn officer that one time.
That's just plain ridiculous. If Starfleet or the Federation felt her actions were as bad as some like to believe they were, they'd have arrested and courtmartialed her.
The hero who brought Voyager home?? No, that wouldn't've gone down at all well... A side-ways transfer, on the other hand, keeps her under observation and out of harms way without ruffling any feathers... It makes sense...
The hero who brought Voyager home?? No, that wouldn't've gone down at all well... A side-ways transfer, on the other hand, keeps her under observation and out of harms way without ruffling any feathers... It makes sense...
So, why promote her to VA? If they wanted to keep an eye on her, they would have left her to rot at RALH.
So, why promote her to VA? If they wanted to keep an eye on her, they would have left her to rot at RALH.
Why in the pilot episode was Tuvok wearing Lt.Cmdr's rank pips, then anonymously demoted to Lt, only to later be promoted back to Lt.Cmdr? I'd just look at the pips as one of those costume anomalies, and look to the situation itself -- Janeway was taken from commanding a Starship and jammed behind a desk... If she was considered an effective commanding officer, Starfleet would have left her in command of Voyager for further missions in the Alpha Quadrant, but IMHO, she was benched
No, it doesn't make any sense at all whatsoever. Star Trek has shown repeatedly that Admiralty, Ambassadors, Counsel etc. are not above the law.
What doesn't make sense about it? Looks like a pretty clear case of an incompetent line-manager being moved to head office to be kept under line, rather than being allowed to manage another store...
So why is anything Janeway did any different? She did what she did to protect her crew and to get them home. I'd argue she had a much tougher time during her command than any other Starfleet Captain given their circumstances. The crew of Voyager were on their own with no support in uncharted, hostile territory. She did what she needed to do, just like Sisko, Kirk and Picard.
Bull. For a ship cut off from all of Starfleet's supporting infrastructure they were doing just fine. You want a captain with a vaguely viable excuse for committing a morally reprehensible act? Ransom's ship was falling apart and half his crew were dead. Sisko was faced with the forcible subjugation of the Alpha Quadrant by an enemy that had already admitted to an intent to preemptively glass Earth, and had already demonstrated it was perfectly willing to condemn entire populations to a slow extinction by biological weapons. Picard didn't do what was necessary; instead he hemmed and hawed about morals when presented with a possible opportunity to wipe out the Borg once and for all, and was called on the carpet for it by Admiral Nechayev.
And as demonstrated in the episode, Voyager had a countermeasure prepared in the event the Borg tried to assimilate the ship. Try again, Mr. Apologist for Treason.
Forgot to mention earlier: Kirk et al. were court-martialed for far less than what Janeway got away with (stealing military property for personal use, etc., versus providing tactical assistance to a known enemy of literally every thinking creature in the entire galaxy). They only got off as light as they did out of Starfleet's gratitude for their saving Earth for the third or fourth time, and the punishment Kirk did receive, demotion to captain, was, for him, more of a reward than dropping the other charges was. Picard hid behind the Prime Directive for his negligent genocide and was blasted by Admiral Nechayev for not using an opportunity to attack the Borg in "I Borg", and Sisko and Garak were the only two people who even knew about the Senator Vreenak thing.
Janeway's entire crew knew about her alliance with the Borg, her actions were not necessary to save Earth (a smart captain would have tried to talk to 8472, who proved to be honorable to the extent of being willing to negotiate and keep to their agreements, and simple logic dictated that, the Borg being what they were, they would have started it), the Prime Directive had no bearing on the situation, and their actions were in direct contravention of standing orders to attack the Borg at all opportunities. So, either Voyager's crew conspired to cover it up, which is obstruction of justice on top of everything else, or Starfleet's military justice system is massively incompetent.*
* Actually, considering a JAG Corps judge allows Worf to be prosecuted under Klingon law in "Rules of Engagement" when only Starfleet law logically has jurisdiction (and he's already been declared completely innocent under that legal system), they probably are completely incompetent.
No, it doesn't make any sense at all whatsoever. Star Trek has shown repeatedly that Admiralty, Ambassadors, Counsel etc. are not above the law.
Then Janeway should have been locked up at Facility 4028 for the rest of her natural life for betraying every thinking creature in the galaxy, not promoted. The fact that the Borg are still a deadly danger to the entire galaxy rests on her shoulders, with her crew as accessories.
And since we have no idea how long Andorians live, can we just say they live for hundreds of years and get Shran in the game too? Maybe he's related to Shon.
According to the EU they live about as long as humans in Star Trek, 135-150 years.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Starfleet isn't a corner store chain. They're not putting Janeway in a position where she is ordering the Federation flagship around if they feel she's not capable.
No, it's an organisation where people were promoted and demoted and assigned according to performance. And no, they're not putting her in that position at all... Those orders would not have come from her, but the fleet Admiral. She's just a messenger... A go-between... A 'mission giver'...
Again, watch more Star Trek. It's shown time and time again no person is above the law. If Starfleet felt she was a criminal, they'd have dealt with her accordingly.
Maybe she was court-martialled and 'punished', as before, they took a recognisable hero, and rather than promoting her and keeping her 'where she could carry on her good work', they sidelined her to a desk job at Starfleet Command. They might as well have put an anklet on her and moved her into Paris' old room into New Zealand, in terms of 'job scrutiny' she would have been under...
And no, they're not putting her in that position at all... Those orders would not have come from her, but the fleet Admiral. She's just a messenger... A go-between... A 'mission giver'...
So at the end of Nemesis, Picard reported back to her and got 3,000 XP, and a choice between a new rifle, a new impulse engine or a new bridge officer?
Pointing out where you're wrong and offering a second pont of view isn't being an apologist for anything. I'm happy to continue the discussion if you're able to stop with the flaming/trolling?
You forgot name-calling.
Also, if I remember the episode rightly, Species 8472's first response to Voyager's crew was to poison their Operations Officer (Kim) and try to attack the ship... and, unless I'm mistaken, that was BEFORE Janeway allied with the Borg to stop them.
If starsword was such an expert on military nature, she would know that when that happens it is prudent to consider the aggressor hostile and deal with them any way you can to protect your ship and crew. What Janeway did was PRUDENCE up until the Borg effectively hijacked Voyager, at which point, she didn't have much choice for similar reasons. They were in a warzone.
I again bring up my previous point:
Also, the British Army cooperated with the USSR in Yugoslavia - maybe not formally, but we consciously allowed them to beat us to our target.
So at the end of Nemesis, Picard reported back to her and got 3,000 XP, and a choice between a new rifle, a new impulse engine or a new bridge officer?
Judging from the deleted scenes, I'm guessing Picard chose the Boff. :P
And the Borg and Species 8472 were going to do what? Rain lollipops and make rainbows on Earth?
No, 8472 are not nice people. But once somebody actually tried diplomacy with them, they demonstrate a willingness to negotiate in good faith and keep to their agreements. Whereas the Borg turned on Voyager the moment they were no longer in mortal danger, because they're the freaking Borg, whose only purpose in life is to assimilate or destroy every thinking creature in the galaxy*.
*This cannot possibly be emphasized enough.
The Krenim were going to erase history for billions, if not more. But that is acceptable?
How the hell do the Krenim come into it? Janeway did exactly what she was supposed to do there.
Picard had an opportunity to destroy the Borg and didn't take it long before Janeway ever ran into them. But that was ok why? Because he was a man?
Did you fail reading comprehension in grade school? No, it wasn't okay, as I have said repeatedly, and as he was specifically called out for in the same series. He just didn't go as far as Janeway did, which was to actively assist them in attempting to assimilate and/or destroy a species.
This has nothing to do with sexism.
Pointing out where you're wrong and offering a second pont of view isn't being an apologist for anything. I'm happy to continue the discussion if you're able to stop with the flaming/trolling?
I flame people if I think they deserve it. Always have, always will. I'm not going to change just because I hurt the feelings of someone who's trying to excuse treason.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
And the Borg and Species 8472 were going to do what? Rain lollipops and make rainbows on Earth? The Krenim were going to erase history for billions, if not more. But that is acceptable?
starswordc is talking pretty specifically about Scorpion, here. Also, the Undine are shown to have a basic humanoid level of honor; nothing like what a human or Klingon would have, but they at least keep up their end of a bargain if the other party does, too. In the STO timeline, the Undine are under the impression that Starfleet and the regular-space species have betrayed them in a big, big way; hence their attacks and sabotage.
So. Strange aliens with Borg-pwnzoring tech who are perfectly happy to deal with other species (assuming that other species deals fairly), or the f*cking Borg, who want to assimilate everything?
I'd take the Undine, their creepy biology notwithstanding, every day of the week.
Picard had an opportunity to destroy the Borg and didn't take it long before Janeway ever ran into them. But that was ok why? Because he was a man?
Not sure where you're going with this. Picard tends to forget the needs of the many as opposed to the needs of the few a lot (c.f. Insurrection; Dougherty has a point when he's yelling at Picard, although Picard has a point, too; very shaky moral ground, there).
The problem is that Janeway had the opportunity to open negotiations with the Undine, say "Hey, those Borg guys who tried to shoot you up? They attacked us and tried to assimilate our homeworld a couple times. How about we give you are data on them in exchange for some help and some of those sweet instakill torps?", and she instead decided to help the Borg, which are an enemy to literally every sentient species--hell, every species--in the galaxy. Picard NEVER did anything even remotely similar to that.
If I'd been in Picard's place, I'm not sure which option I would've taken. In Janeway's place? I'd have gone up to the Undine and said, "Hey, guys. We know this galaxy pretty well, and we'd be thrilled to let you into the Federation, giving you easy access to our massive resources, in exchange for some of those magic Borg-go-boom torpedoes. We hate the Borg quite a bit; they attacked us unprovoked, killed millions of our citizens, and tried to assimilate our homeworld. We'd be absolutely thrilled if you'd help us; and believe me, a hero's welcome on Risa is not to be sneezed at."
Worst : Janeway (Only because they screwed her up after season 1 ) , Neelix , Kes , Gowron (We still need the crazy eyes ingame) , worf (Because they missed a chance to expand on klingon culture with him), archer .
Comments
Picard? Yes, he was a party to negligent genocide using the Prime Directive as a shield and he had his head up his TRIBBLE about Starfleet's military function, but he was at least consistently written as an idealist. And Kirk's entire characterization was "cowboy with a phaser" and he got called out on it by later series.
Janeway had no consistent characterization, and what she did in "Scorpion" is called "aiding the enemy", a crime punishable by death in real militaries. But because she's the wonderful protagonist who can do no wrong, Starfleet apparently rewards a crime that carries the same penalty as murder or treason with a three-pay-grade bump. Because legal systems work that way (or, my preference, Janeway et al. conspired to cover it up, which I now want to work into a Foundry mission).
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
But he felt really bad about it afterwards, so that makes it ok right? :rolleyes:
Jeffery f*cking Combs, man.
All of his characters are made of win.
Well, he WAS played by Jeffrey Combs. Hard to TRIBBLE that up.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
They need to get him into STO for some VO work! Weyoun would be easy enough, we just dug up some "long lost" clone in stasis somewhere, he could be an integral part of a Dominion season storyline.
And since we have no idea how long Andorians live, can we just say they live for hundreds of years and get Shran in the game too? Maybe he's related to Shon.
Would people please stop comparing shran and shon? That's an insult to shran. Shon will never have a fraction of charisma, cunningness and general awesomeness of shran.
They have nothing in common but their blue skin and their antennas.
While shran was awesome enterprise had a few good other characters. Pitifully the series focused far to much on archer instead of the actual good ones.
I personally liked Malcolm Reed and Hoshi Sato a lot more troi or crusher or Kira or... Well lot cast members if the series considered as good.(actually I'd rate both over any voyager character..)
THIS^^^^^^^ THIS EXACTLY.
Janeway would be a fricking disaster for any military organization.
I admit that I cringed when "Admiral" Janeway was giving Picard his orders in Nemesis. I mean he had to know that he was a far more successful and competent leader, right? I guess he took the advice he got from Kirk to heart and refused promotion.
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" - Sun Tzu.
If Janeway hadn't cooperated with the Borg, the fear was that Species 8472 would wipe out all life in surrounding systems. At the time, no one knew the Borg had started the conflict, and upon learning that, the only reason Janeway continued to cooperate was because the Borg threatened to assimilate Voyager.
Also, the British Army cooperated with the USSR in Yugoslavia - maybe not formally, but we consciously allowed them to beat us to our target.
Suggesting military units NEVER cooperate with their enemies in extenuating circumstances is, in my opinion, deeply naive.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Dominion faction. Weyoun 317 (or thereabouts) as quest-giver for first 20 or 30 levels.
Made of win.
Maybe have a descendant? I think that soft-canon says that Andorians live about as long as Humans.
They said that the weyoun killed in what yoe leave behind was the last one, especially since the cloning facility producing weyouns was destroyed.
Although I don't get that logic... They did have weyouns in the gamma quadrant before they set even a food into the alpha quadrant. Were those moved? Were all genetic weyoun probes moved there and no backup? Makes no sense to me...
As for shran... We do not know what happened to him. He might have time traveled or something. Or, if just for an episode, we might travel back in time to meet him.
Shon is related to Shran, through his third parnter-mate, twice removed. They have quite a lot in common and are bound by blood.
Battle of Wolf 359. I mean really, Picard wouldn't be serving in Starfleet after that, let alone captaining a ship.
So it's fiction. Let it go. Janeway is nowhere near as bad as you make her out to be. Well other than mating with her conn officer that one time.
The hero who brought Voyager home?? No, that wouldn't've gone down at all well... A side-ways transfer, on the other hand, keeps her under observation and out of harms way without ruffling any feathers... It makes sense...
So, why promote her to VA? If they wanted to keep an eye on her, they would have left her to rot at RALH.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Why in the pilot episode was Tuvok wearing Lt.Cmdr's rank pips, then anonymously demoted to Lt, only to later be promoted back to Lt.Cmdr?
What doesn't make sense about it? Looks like a pretty clear case of an incompetent line-manager being moved to head office to be kept under line, rather than being allowed to manage another store...
And as demonstrated in the episode, Voyager had a countermeasure prepared in the event the Borg tried to assimilate the ship. Try again, Mr. Apologist for Treason.
Forgot to mention earlier: Kirk et al. were court-martialed for far less than what Janeway got away with (stealing military property for personal use, etc., versus providing tactical assistance to a known enemy of literally every thinking creature in the entire galaxy). They only got off as light as they did out of Starfleet's gratitude for their saving Earth for the third or fourth time, and the punishment Kirk did receive, demotion to captain, was, for him, more of a reward than dropping the other charges was. Picard hid behind the Prime Directive for his negligent genocide and was blasted by Admiral Nechayev for not using an opportunity to attack the Borg in "I Borg", and Sisko and Garak were the only two people who even knew about the Senator Vreenak thing.
Janeway's entire crew knew about her alliance with the Borg, her actions were not necessary to save Earth (a smart captain would have tried to talk to 8472, who proved to be honorable to the extent of being willing to negotiate and keep to their agreements, and simple logic dictated that, the Borg being what they were, they would have started it), the Prime Directive had no bearing on the situation, and their actions were in direct contravention of standing orders to attack the Borg at all opportunities. So, either Voyager's crew conspired to cover it up, which is obstruction of justice on top of everything else, or Starfleet's military justice system is massively incompetent.*
* Actually, considering a JAG Corps judge allows Worf to be prosecuted under Klingon law in "Rules of Engagement" when only Starfleet law logically has jurisdiction (and he's already been declared completely innocent under that legal system), they probably are completely incompetent.
Then Janeway should have been locked up at Facility 4028 for the rest of her natural life for betraying every thinking creature in the galaxy, not promoted. The fact that the Borg are still a deadly danger to the entire galaxy rests on her shoulders, with her crew as accessories.
According to the EU they live about as long as humans in Star Trek, 135-150 years.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Maybe she was court-martialled and 'punished', as before, they took a recognisable hero, and rather than promoting her and keeping her 'where she could carry on her good work', they sidelined her to a desk job at Starfleet Command. They might as well have put an anklet on her and moved her into Paris' old room into New Zealand, in terms of 'job scrutiny' she would have been under...
So at the end of Nemesis, Picard reported back to her and got 3,000 XP, and a choice between a new rifle, a new impulse engine or a new bridge officer?
You forgot name-calling.
Also, if I remember the episode rightly, Species 8472's first response to Voyager's crew was to poison their Operations Officer (Kim) and try to attack the ship... and, unless I'm mistaken, that was BEFORE Janeway allied with the Borg to stop them.
If starsword was such an expert on military nature, she would know that when that happens it is prudent to consider the aggressor hostile and deal with them any way you can to protect your ship and crew. What Janeway did was PRUDENCE up until the Borg effectively hijacked Voyager, at which point, she didn't have much choice for similar reasons. They were in a warzone.
I again bring up my previous point:
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Judging from the deleted scenes, I'm guessing Picard chose the Boff. :P
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
*This cannot possibly be emphasized enough.
How the hell do the Krenim come into it?
Did you fail reading comprehension in grade school? No, it wasn't okay, as I have said repeatedly, and as he was specifically called out for in the same series. He just didn't go as far as Janeway did, which was to actively assist them in attempting to assimilate and/or destroy a species.
This has nothing to do with sexism.
I flame people if I think they deserve it. Always have, always will. I'm not going to change just because I hurt the feelings of someone who's trying to excuse treason.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
starswordc is talking pretty specifically about Scorpion, here. Also, the Undine are shown to have a basic humanoid level of honor; nothing like what a human or Klingon would have, but they at least keep up their end of a bargain if the other party does, too. In the STO timeline, the Undine are under the impression that Starfleet and the regular-space species have betrayed them in a big, big way; hence their attacks and sabotage.
So. Strange aliens with Borg-pwnzoring tech who are perfectly happy to deal with other species (assuming that other species deals fairly), or the f*cking Borg, who want to assimilate everything?
I'd take the Undine, their creepy biology notwithstanding, every day of the week.
Not sure where you're going with this. Picard tends to forget the needs of the many as opposed to the needs of the few a lot (c.f. Insurrection; Dougherty has a point when he's yelling at Picard, although Picard has a point, too; very shaky moral ground, there).
The problem is that Janeway had the opportunity to open negotiations with the Undine, say "Hey, those Borg guys who tried to shoot you up? They attacked us and tried to assimilate our homeworld a couple times. How about we give you are data on them in exchange for some help and some of those sweet instakill torps?", and she instead decided to help the Borg, which are an enemy to literally every sentient species--hell, every species--in the galaxy. Picard NEVER did anything even remotely similar to that.
If I'd been in Picard's place, I'm not sure which option I would've taken. In Janeway's place? I'd have gone up to the Undine and said, "Hey, guys. We know this galaxy pretty well, and we'd be thrilled to let you into the Federation, giving you easy access to our massive resources, in exchange for some of those magic Borg-go-boom torpedoes. We hate the Borg quite a bit; they attacked us unprovoked, killed millions of our citizens, and tried to assimilate our homeworld. We'd be absolutely thrilled if you'd help us; and believe me, a hero's welcome on Risa is not to be sneezed at."
Seems perfectly logical to me.
Worst : Janeway (Only because they screwed her up after season 1 ) , Neelix , Kes , Gowron (We still need the crazy eyes ingame) , worf (Because they missed a chance to expand on klingon culture with him), archer .