Curiously, the missing link is still missing. Do you have anything further you'd like to add?
Phil Plait recently answered this, actually. The current reality of the "missing link" is a chain that is actually more complete than the one in the debate between Professor Farnsworth and Dr. Banjo the talking organgutan. There are an additional 21 known species between those last two where Farnsworth finally gave up.
I read a funny little story once, about why Star Trek ended up with "transporters".
The boiled down version is, after lots of talk about the "trek" aspect of the show, the ships crew were going to lots of different and varied places - turns out, the special effects for a shuttle ride to the planet and back up again for each show was going to cost - A LOT.
So, with this little hiccup, the question was: how can we get the ship crew from A to B in a more cost effective manner where FX were not going to kill the budget.
With a torch, some foil paper, a clear tube and an odd sound.... suddenly mankind had developed technology to turn a person into energy and transmit them anywhere... all on the cheap
Lucky for us now that we have digital animation. special effects can be done cheaply and decently looking for whatever you want. landing a shuttle is as easy as creating a 3D model for the first episode and then keep using it for as long as the show airs. that model lands rather expensively on the first planet but from that point on it land for a fraction of the cost even if it's over 9000! landings. so it actually get cheaper (per landing) the more you use it.
the flip-side is of course that nowadays special effect are so cheap that directors get lazy and start using them inappropriately to solve any problem. props, models, smoke and mirrors require creative thinking to make it work. sadly any Deus Ex Machina effect can now be convincingly put on screen. since any narrative difficulty can be fixed whit "pretty effects" more often than not the "Digital quick fix" gets chosen instead of fixing the actual problem, because that takes effort and creativity. so you end up whit pices of TRIBBLE like: avatar, the star wars prequels, etc.
THE NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM IS TERRA-BAD First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
what the fork??? i just played it, because i didn't have time last week, and i can't believe what i heard. a dyson sphere can't be moved, there's just no way. i don't care how much energy you've got, it just ain't happening. okay maybe Q, but that's the only way.
star trek is sci-fi, not fantasy. you can't just make something like that happen just because it would be cool. this is why sci-fi tv shows have science advisors. cryptic, you are in desperate need of a good trek advisor. please... you need someone to stop you from doing ridiculous things like this.
am i not crazy being irked about this, or is everyone else swallowing it?
The OP is correct that the teleporting Dyson sphere shouldn't have happened, but for the wrong reason: teleporting the Jenolan sphere opens a massive plot hole in the entire Dyson scenario that means its entire story justification (Omega particles = bad) is moot, and therefore we just spent two months killing Voth for no good reason. As far as it being physically impossible to teleport it? Let me quote for you what I said in another thread:
Check any scientific realism-based argument at the door.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I thought that Greedo was such a bad shot that Greedo shot first, but completely missed everyone in the Bar.
no George Lucas is just a bad writer. selling out (to Disney) was the best thing he could have done. at least now his creation is protected from him and we don't get this kind of discussions.
listen to the episode (3) about killing your darlings. (think about jarjar binks when you listen about the part of the "insane brother")
and episode 17 titled: this sucks I am a horrible writer. (especially the part about the 2 types writers that will never get published and you recognize lucas in one.)
and than you'll understand Lucas got luky...
don't get me wrong i love star wars but facts are facts. Lucas is a bad writer and it needed to be taken away from him!
THE NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM IS TERRA-BAD First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
The OP is correct that the teleporting Dyson sphere shouldn't have happened, but for the wrong reason: teleporting the Jenolan sphere opens a massive plot hole in the entire Dyson scenario that means its entire story justification (Omega particles = bad) is moot, and therefore we just spent two months killing Voth for no good reason. As far as it being physically impossible to teleport it? Let me quote for you what I said in another thread:
now this i can get into. I don't care about things being perfectly scientifically right as long as the things you do, don't create plot holes.
however at the start of the mission star fleets best understanding of omega particles is that they are bad. now that they have been used successfully they may need to reflect and realize that as you say: "just spent two months killing Voth for no good reason."
THE NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM IS TERRA-BAD First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
"another" implies there was a first, and the proof (or lack thereof in your case) is in the thread my "very special" friend.
Feel free to try and find something to back up your claims of victory. I'm sure there is another Wikipedia page you can toy with to help you out with your definitions.
Now please, enlighten me to the source of your pity for my "limitations".
Oh you poor poor child, so many of us have tried to enlighten and educate already. I won't waste your time with information you cannot process, just know some of us care.
^^ No it is not ^^ (Couldn't resist, you just made that too easy)
As for any "argument" - I don't see one, because there is not one. I am only showing everyone that all you do is insult those you lose to in any form of disagreement, as proven by one of my prior posts - feel free to try and save face, but so many of us have seen how you react when you get shot down.
The OP is correct that the teleporting Dyson sphere shouldn't have happened, but for the wrong reason: teleporting the Jenolan sphere opens a massive plot hole in the entire Dyson scenario that means its entire story justification (Omega particles = bad) is moot, and therefore we just spent two months killing Voth for no good reason. As far as it being physically impossible to teleport it? Let me quote for you what I said in another thread:
I dunno. I look at it and go: MOAR OMEGA? MOAR BAD!
Or something. But we don't know for sure IF the Jenolan Sphere has Omega at all. Or even how/why it moved.
Wait.... I just thought of something.... the Solanae were forced to leave the Solanae Sphere after an experiment made their sun unstable. What if a similar experiment is the reason for the Jenolan sun being unstable?
I dunno. I look at it and go: MOAR OMEGA? MOAR BAD!
Or something. But we don't know for sure IF the Jenolan Sphere has Omega at all. Or even how/why it moved.
Wait.... I just thought of something.... the Solanae were forced to leave the Solanae Sphere after an experiment made their sun unstable. What if a similar experiment is the reason for the Jenolan sun being unstable?
This is what I am thinking as well. The Jenolan Dyson Sphere is Dyson Sphere 2.0 where it doesn't utilize Omega Particles, but uses its star as an energy source or something that affects the star. I can see the Solanae forced out to subspace due to some Omega Particle experiment while the Iconians saying "Well that didn't work. Let's build another Dyson Sphere, but use a safer method where we use the Star as our power source." And having another servitor race evacuate another Dyson Sphere due to a completely unrelated power source experiment.
First the death star: It was powered by a fusion engine, basicly a massivly huge nuclear reactor at its core, its engines both sublight and hyperdrive were located at the rear (there never seen on the films cos u never see its TRIBBLE)
While we're on the topic of the death star ... there is a slight size difference between a death star ("that's no moon") and a dyson sphere (has to at least cover the outside of a star, usually those are bigger than moons).
Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Back to my mathematical calculations. Right now I'm stuck on how many atoms are in a star ... versus how much blue and colorless mana Hermione would need to tap to move a star.
I dunno. I look at it and go: MOAR OMEGA? MOAR BAD!
Or something. But we don't know for sure IF the Jenolan Sphere has Omega at all. Or even how/why it moved.
The principle of parsimony, also known as Occam's razor, states that among possible explanations, the one that requires the fewest assumptions is usually correct. This means that unless otherwise stated, the same type of object, built by the same people, doing the same thing as another example of that object, can be reasonably assumed to be powered by the same technology.
It's a plot hole you could fly the Scimitar through, plain and simple, and demonstrative of nothing more than sloppy writing.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
The principle of parsimony, also known as Occam's razor, states that among possible explanations, the one that requires the fewest assumptions is usually correct. This means that unless otherwise stated, the same type of object, built by the same people, doing the same thing as another example of that object, can be reasonably assumed to be powered by the same technology.
It's a plot hole you could fly the Scimitar through, plain and simple, and demonstrative of nothing more than sloppy writing.
Occam's razor is OP, plz nerf. :P
But in this situation, Occam's razor is, IMO, inapplicable since, as your list demonstrates, there are too many unknowns.
In more detail:
the same type of object, > apparently
built by the same people, > unknown (the builders were apparently affiliated with the Iconians, but their identity is unknown)
doing the same thing as another example of that object > unknown (there is almost no data as to what the Jenolan sphere does)
can be reasonably assumed to be powered by the same technology > 2/3 of the previous points are unknown, thus this would seem to be unknown too.
don't you know anything about warp drive the object never moves the space around it does. meaning theirs no limit on the mass just the limit of the power it takes to bend space vs the mass.
trans warp works by using 2 fixed points in space via gates its near instant vs using normal warp that needs no gates. and the trans warp nodes have a lifespan of around 30k light years before needing replacing Borg ships normally carry sets of 5 or more.
don't you know anything about warp drive the object never moves the space around it does. meaning theirs no limit on the mass just the limit of the power it takes to bend space vs the mass.
That's an Alcubierre-White warp. We have no idea how the Cochrane warp drive works, because there are at least three mutually-contradictory explanations in canon, none of which match Alcubierre's theory.
That's an Alcubierre-White warp. We have no idea how the Cochrane warp drive works, because there are at least three mutually-contradictory explanations in canon, none of which match Alcubierre's theory.
Trekese:
Warp is fueled by the reaction of matter (deuterium) and antimatter (antideuterium), mediated through an assembly of dilithium crystals, which were nonreactive with antimatter when subjected to high-frequency electromagnetic fields. This reaction produced a highly energetic plasma, called electro-plasma or warp plasma, which was channeled by plasma conduits through the electro-plasma system (EPS). The electro-plasma was funneled by plasma injectors into a series of warp field coils, usually located in remote warp nacelles. These coils were composed of verterium cortenide and generated the warp field, which is a subspace compression field which alters the local space time to allow the ship to exceed relativistic velocity.
Real Life:
It's a bunch of fancy sounding gobblygook that allows us to get the ship to the next point in the story plot.
don't you know anything about warp drive the object never moves the space around it does. meaning theirs no limit on the mass just the limit of the power it takes to bend space vs the mass..
Actually, in an Alcubierre drive, 'the space around it' does not really move; rather, in its warp bubble, space is being compressed in front of the ship, and expanded behind it. Thus your ship will effectively accelerate. Again, this is not true motion: rather, your ship keeps its existing speed (which could be near 0 even), but having 'less' (read: compressed) space to travel thru at the the same velocity, it will now 'speed up' as a result.
Hence, btw, Inertial Dampeners are a bust (unless only used for Impulse Speed).
No, that's actually from one of the technical manuals. The drive runs on handwavium as far as the TV series are concerned. However, the TM explanation was part of Miguel Alcubierre's inspiration to design the Alcubierre drive.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Actually, in an Alcubierre drive, 'the space around it' does not really move; rather, in its warp bubble, space is being compressed in front of the ship, and expanded behind it. Thus your ship will effectively accelerate. Again, this is not true motion: rather, your ship keeps its existing speed (which could be near 0 even), but having 'less' (read: compressed) space to travel thru at the the same velocity, it will now 'speed up' as a result.
Hence, btw, Inertial Dampeners are a bust (unless only used for Impulse Speed).
Compressed ahead, expanded behind. The bubble of flat space the ship is in propagates through the universe (as you note, it doesn't really "move", not in the way most people would think of it), with no Einsteinian limit, because Einstein's equations relate to the motion of an object through space, not the rate at which space expands and contracts. The ship is actually in free fall during transit. Inertial dampeners, thankfully, would be unnecessary, because we don't even have the beginnings of a theory on how such things would work.
The most coherent explanation I've heard for the Cochrane warp drive is that it warps a bubble of normal space around the ship, then forces that whole bubble into a subspace realm with differing physical laws. (The normal-space bubble is necessary because life depends on the reliability of physical laws.) In that subspace, it's possible to travel at speeds far greater than our universe's sluggard Light...
what the fork??? i just played it, because i didn't have time last week, and i can't believe what i heard. a dyson sphere can't be moved, there's just no way. i don't care how much energy you've got, it just ain't happening. okay maybe Q, but that's the only way.
star trek is sci-fi, not fantasy. you can't just make something like that happen just because it would be cool. this is why sci-fi tv shows have science advisors. cryptic, you are in desperate need of a good trek advisor. please... you need someone to stop you from doing ridiculous things like this.
am i not crazy being irked about this, or is everyone else swallowing it?
Soooo apparently you missed the part (that seems to be specifically trek) about there being a whole other universe out there called Subspace? And that by the use of subspace one could even transport an entire sun (which I've read in books about Q) or the Iconians, or even the episode about the terrorists who captured Dr Crusher.
That system allows there some play in regards to what we know about science so far and makes it possible for them to do seemingly impossible things like having a transporter accident that locks a man into an alternate dimension with no time for 15 years and still be able to rematerialize him, or shift between alternate universes.
The whole premise of a Dyson Sphere is absurd. Planets work just fine as huge ships. If you want to cut down on heating and lighting equipment take a sun with you. The galaxy would have to experience a serious population problem before anyone needed a Dyson Sphere.
Physics wise I see no problem moving it. C'mon an electron behaves as a wave until someone tries to video it, then it suddenly is a particle. Physics is spookier than you can imagine. Time and space are not set in stone.
The real crazy people are the ones at NASA who are actually looking for Dyson Spheres.
Hoisted by your own petard, eh? I thought so. In other words, except for the patronizing, condescension, which you find so abhorrent in my responses... you have nothing. You suffer from what all bullies suffer from, an inability to look directly in a mirror. Maybe I'll alter the Wikipedia page for "Hypocrite" to use Jocko1979 as a textbook example.
Someone does not like patronizing, condescension thrown back at him, how interesting.
After all that name calling you've done (proven here) you try to slur me with the title of "bully" - you may want to read this
You may want to also read this to help reduce your stress levels and need to belittle others on public forums.
Told you, some of us care and want to help you become a better person - just keep posting how you are doing, it helps to talk it through.
Comments
Phil Plait recently answered this, actually. The current reality of the "missing link" is a chain that is actually more complete than the one in the debate between Professor Farnsworth and Dr. Banjo the talking organgutan. There are an additional 21 known species between those last two where Farnsworth finally gave up.
Lucky for us now that we have digital animation. special effects can be done cheaply and decently looking for whatever you want. landing a shuttle is as easy as creating a 3D model for the first episode and then keep using it for as long as the show airs. that model lands rather expensively on the first planet but from that point on it land for a fraction of the cost even if it's over 9000! landings. so it actually get cheaper (per landing) the more you use it.
the flip-side is of course that nowadays special effect are so cheap that directors get lazy and start using them inappropriately to solve any problem. props, models, smoke and mirrors require creative thinking to make it work. sadly any Deus Ex Machina effect can now be convincingly put on screen. since any narrative difficulty can be fixed whit "pretty effects" more often than not the "Digital quick fix" gets chosen instead of fixing the actual problem, because that takes effort and creativity. so you end up whit pices of TRIBBLE like: avatar, the star wars prequels, etc.
First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
I thought that Greedo was such a bad shot that Greedo shot first, but completely missed everyone in the Bar.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
no George Lucas is just a bad writer. selling out (to Disney) was the best thing he could have done. at least now his creation is protected from him and we don't get this kind of discussions.
just go here: http://www.writingexcuses.com/season001/
listen to the episode (3) about killing your darlings. (think about jarjar binks when you listen about the part of the "insane brother")
and episode 17 titled: this sucks I am a horrible writer. (especially the part about the 2 types writers that will never get published and you recognize lucas in one.)
and than you'll understand Lucas got luky...
don't get me wrong i love star wars but facts are facts. Lucas is a bad writer and it needed to be taken away from him!
First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
now this i can get into. I don't care about things being perfectly scientifically right as long as the things you do, don't create plot holes.
however at the start of the mission star fleets best understanding of omega particles is that they are bad. now that they have been used successfully they may need to reflect and realize that as you say: "just spent two months killing Voth for no good reason."
First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
Finally admitting you have nothing, I knew you could do it. You're such a good boy (or girl)!
"another" implies there was a first, and the proof (or lack thereof in your case) is in the thread my "very special" friend.
Feel free to try and find something to back up your claims of victory. I'm sure there is another Wikipedia page you can toy with to help you out with your definitions.
Oh you poor poor child, so many of us have tried to enlighten and educate already. I won't waste your time with information you cannot process, just know some of us care.
^^ No it is not ^^ (Couldn't resist, you just made that too easy)
As for any "argument" - I don't see one, because there is not one. I am only showing everyone that all you do is insult those you lose to in any form of disagreement, as proven by one of my prior posts - feel free to try and save face, but so many of us have seen how you react when you get shot down.
Or something. But we don't know for sure IF the Jenolan Sphere has Omega at all. Or even how/why it moved.
Wait.... I just thought of something.... the Solanae were forced to leave the Solanae Sphere after an experiment made their sun unstable. What if a similar experiment is the reason for the Jenolan sun being unstable?
My character Tsin'xing
This is what I am thinking as well. The Jenolan Dyson Sphere is Dyson Sphere 2.0 where it doesn't utilize Omega Particles, but uses its star as an energy source or something that affects the star. I can see the Solanae forced out to subspace due to some Omega Particle experiment while the Iconians saying "Well that didn't work. Let's build another Dyson Sphere, but use a safer method where we use the Star as our power source." And having another servitor race evacuate another Dyson Sphere due to a completely unrelated power source experiment.
While we're on the topic of the death star ... there is a slight size difference between a death star ("that's no moon") and a dyson sphere (has to at least cover the outside of a star, usually those are bigger than moons).
Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Back to my mathematical calculations. Right now I'm stuck on how many atoms are in a star ... versus how much blue and colorless mana Hermione would need to tap to move a star.
Very good point. The Death Star can probably keep entire squadrons of Catians and Feresans at bay, but the rest of the fleet? Dyson Sphere wins.
The principle of parsimony, also known as Occam's razor, states that among possible explanations, the one that requires the fewest assumptions is usually correct. This means that unless otherwise stated, the same type of object, built by the same people, doing the same thing as another example of that object, can be reasonably assumed to be powered by the same technology.
It's a plot hole you could fly the Scimitar through, plain and simple, and demonstrative of nothing more than sloppy writing.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
But in this situation, Occam's razor is, IMO, inapplicable since, as your list demonstrates, there are too many unknowns.
In more detail:
the same type of object, > apparently
built by the same people, > unknown (the builders were apparently affiliated with the Iconians, but their identity is unknown)
doing the same thing as another example of that object > unknown (there is almost no data as to what the Jenolan sphere does)
can be reasonably assumed to be powered by the same technology > 2/3 of the previous points are unknown, thus this would seem to be unknown too.
My character Tsin'xing
trans warp works by using 2 fixed points in space via gates its near instant vs using normal warp that needs no gates. and the trans warp nodes have a lifespan of around 30k light years before needing replacing Borg ships normally carry sets of 5 or more.
lol, thats all i saw in the whole page. XD
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Trekese:
Warp is fueled by the reaction of matter (deuterium) and antimatter (antideuterium), mediated through an assembly of dilithium crystals, which were nonreactive with antimatter when subjected to high-frequency electromagnetic fields. This reaction produced a highly energetic plasma, called electro-plasma or warp plasma, which was channeled by plasma conduits through the electro-plasma system (EPS). The electro-plasma was funneled by plasma injectors into a series of warp field coils, usually located in remote warp nacelles. These coils were composed of verterium cortenide and generated the warp field, which is a subspace compression field which alters the local space time to allow the ship to exceed relativistic velocity.
Real Life:
It's a bunch of fancy sounding gobblygook that allows us to get the ship to the next point in the story plot.
Actually, in an Alcubierre drive, 'the space around it' does not really move; rather, in its warp bubble, space is being compressed in front of the ship, and expanded behind it. Thus your ship will effectively accelerate. Again, this is not true motion: rather, your ship keeps its existing speed (which could be near 0 even), but having 'less' (read: compressed) space to travel thru at the the same velocity, it will now 'speed up' as a result.
Hence, btw, Inertial Dampeners are a bust (unless only used for Impulse Speed).
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The most coherent explanation I've heard for the Cochrane warp drive is that it warps a bubble of normal space around the ship, then forces that whole bubble into a subspace realm with differing physical laws. (The normal-space bubble is necessary because life depends on the reliability of physical laws.) In that subspace, it's possible to travel at speeds far greater than our universe's sluggard Light...
or you after a technical advisors job?
lol
Soooo apparently you missed the part (that seems to be specifically trek) about there being a whole other universe out there called Subspace? And that by the use of subspace one could even transport an entire sun (which I've read in books about Q) or the Iconians, or even the episode about the terrorists who captured Dr Crusher.
That system allows there some play in regards to what we know about science so far and makes it possible for them to do seemingly impossible things like having a transporter accident that locks a man into an alternate dimension with no time for 15 years and still be able to rematerialize him, or shift between alternate universes.
Physics wise I see no problem moving it. C'mon an electron behaves as a wave until someone tries to video it, then it suddenly is a particle. Physics is spookier than you can imagine. Time and space are not set in stone.
The real crazy people are the ones at NASA who are actually looking for Dyson Spheres.
Someone does not like patronizing, condescension thrown back at him, how interesting.
After all that name calling you've done (proven here) you try to slur me with the title of "bully" - you may want to read this
You may want to also read this to help reduce your stress levels and need to belittle others on public forums.
Told you, some of us care and want to help you become a better person - just keep posting how you are doing, it helps to talk it through.