The Sphere was moved via a giant transporter device. Force enough power into one, and you can move anything anywhere. Just like the Iconian space-gates are scaled up versions of the planet-bound versions.
I have to agree with the op. But I also agree with everyone else. Here's why; since it is a solid object, the dyson sphere itself could indeed be moved, given enough energy. Omega particles produce more than enough energy for this. But the problem would be moving the sun inside the sphere. Its not really about moving the sphere itself, but I can't imagine that the sun would remain stable, or not interact with the omega residue in some way.
Why does everyone assume the fold engines of the sphere would only affects things attached to the sphere? What if the fold engines affected a volumes of space which just happens to encompass the central sun and everything else inside the Sphere. Like the USS Gold?
So you don't think we should have Leprechauns, and Superheroes in STO? Not even bikini clad Selena Kyle/Harley Quinn bridge bunnies?
We have Q that has us fight snowmen and save gingerbread people so almost anything is possible, but it seems that Q's only weakness is licenses so while we could have bikini clad superheroine bridge bunnies, we can't have bikini clad Selena Kyle/Harley Quinn bridge bunnies.
Forget it, dude. Science has no place in this game. Some of them will understand better, if you explain it this way:
Starfleet had problems with all the starships inside the Dyson Sphere crashing into each other, because they couldn't see. So Spock got a hold of the Human Torch, and had him tell the Silver Surfer that Starfleet needed a favor. The Surfer was obliged to help Starfleet, because they got his surfboard back when the Red Baron stole it, and used it to up his killstreak in the Leprechaun Wars. Anyway, Starfleet had him ignite the brown dwarf using his Cosmic Energy. Then the Human Torch moved in to act as a lighthouse keeper, and keep the fire stoked. But now Green Lantern is PO'ed, because his deal to sell Starfleet Green Lantern Light chemlights, for their starships, fell through.
Noooooo! I bought stock in chemlights!
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
There is, however, one blatant error of basic science in "A Step Between Stars". As you approach the sun-station, it's described in the text onscreen as a "brown dwarf". However, brown dwarf stars are called that because they're basically stars that didn't make the cut - they radiate only in the infrared. Were the Solonae sphere lit by a brown dwarf, we'd only be able to see anything with computer assistance (except for those alien species whose visual range includes infrared). Also, while its magnetic fields might be dangerous, its direct radiations would be difficult to even detect, much less be threatened by.
I propose instead that the star involved must be either an M-type red dwarf, or possibly a white dwarf (which might also explain what happened to the original inhabitants - red dwarfs tend to flare more than most main-sequence stars, while white dwarfs will tend to have a nova event every few million years or so as they run out of one element and start fusing another).
The flaring tendencies of red dwarfs could also explain both the size and the uninhabitability of the Jenolan sphere.
I can't believe I hadn't noticed the maps names when running the FE. But @jonsills is quite correct, the Brown Dwarf destination given to the sphere's central star is in no way accurate.
From a pure science point of view. a Brown Dwarf is an object that is between a Giant planned and a small star. In size it would be between 1 and 80 Jupiters in mass. It's not massive enough to start fusing hydrogen. The only energy you would get out of it would be it's internal heat. You'd be better off using it's hydrogen to fuel arrays of fusion reactors.
From the environmental view of the maps, the star being depicted is a main stage star. It's has the cell structtures that we see on the surface of our Sun, solar prominences, black spots, all features of an active star. A brown dwarf doesn't burn hydrogen. It would look something like Jupiter or Saturn except be much bigger. The only light would be in the infrared band of light, much like a cosmic space heater.
And I'll disagree with @jonsills about the star being an M Class star. The state size of the Solanae sphere could put it outside of the goldilocks zone of such a star. A Dysonsphere for an M class star would have to be much smaller.
An enclosed Dyson shell doesn't have to be in the goldilocks zone. As was pointed out before, the temperature inside would climb uncontrollably without something to release or trap excess energy - it's the main reason Freeman Dyson discarded the idea in favor of rings or swarms (which do have to be in the habitable zone, since heat buildup isn't an issue).
The flip side of preventing runaway heating is that once you have temperature control in place, you don't need to get rid of *all* the excess, you can allow enough buildup to warm the surface to your species' desired temperature.
Now, I must not have been paying attention, I don't recall the FE ever calling the star a brown dwarf, and I religiously read text on new missions. I did notice there's a good chunk of variability in this one, even in some small details (the systems you start losing while aligning the flare suppressors aren't always the same), so it could be something I didn't get or overlooked, but... I'll argue about that after playing through again.
Now, I must not have been paying attention, I don't recall the FE ever calling the star a brown dwarf, and I religiously read text on new missions. I did notice there's a good chunk of variability in this one, even in some small details (the systems you start losing while aligning the flare suppressors aren't always the same), so it could be something I didn't get or overlooked, but... I'll argue about that after playing through again.
You aren't the only religious text reader who missed it. It's the text that we don't tend to read religiously. It's the name of the map where you fly around the station and realign the Flare Suppressors.
Treid to make a distiction between "science fiction" and "fiction". - Countered
Treid to say the sphere would build up pressure and heat then explode. - Countered
Tried to say it would suffer lack of maintenance. - Countered
Used unreliable source material to back up your claims. - Countered
When all else failed, your answers resorted to insulting, condescending and nonsensical drivel. As shown below;
.....You might not be able to comprehend them. I understand them very well. They're complete, and utter rubbish extrapolated from a scientific theory of a 20th century human physicist, who no longer wants his name associated with them. And if you honestly, believe that they should have a place in this game, then you should also have no objections to things like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and/or the Wicked Witch of the West being seriously portrayed as empirical facts in STO.
.... Let's just have people flying through space on magic carpets, and flying unicorns battling Rumpelstiltskin, and the Queen of Hearts for control of the Turkey Stuffing Mines?
.....I think in the next season we should find out in a bizarre plot twist, in a briefing from Fleet Admiral Teddy Ruxpin, that the Dyson Spheres are actually gigantic, Pacman space defense weapons.......
@mithrosnomore (this one goes on, cropped a lot of the rubbish out)
Right. Santa and his elves could have done it. After all he can fly to every house in the world in one night, and his elves can pretty much build anything.
Oh, I'm sorry, are we wasting your time? Are you feeling that the precious few minutes you're taking out of your no doubt, hectic schedule, to voluntarily read, and comment in these forums, could be better spent elsewhere? Please, by all means, off you go, don't let us hold you up. As Lord Humungous would say "Just walk away".
@thecosmic1 (even though the post was not to you, you felt the need to try and belittle the poster)
....Honestly, you're a minority of fools...[*SNIP*].... But I digress, it is starting to feel like trying to convince five year olds that Spiderman doesn't exist, on my end....[*SNIP*].... See you in the funny papers.
Plus, quoting lines from the Matrix makes 14 out of 41 posts were unnecessary and pointless.
Every time someone counters you, you just try to act smarter than them, once that fails you resort to insults. Nine (9) different names above, of people who have shown you for what you are. How you got three (3) or four (4) is beyond me, with so much evidence leaping out of this thread.
Just because you're limited and cannot comprehend the existence of a Dyson Sphere, does not mean it cannot exist. The same was said about flying, wireless communication, transport without horses and so on - yet here we are.
Why you're even here is mystifying, unless it is for the sole purpose of either being a troll or you have some sort of complex that requires you to attempt to upset others for your own self gratification, who knows.
Am I happy the players have had to fill the plot holes in the story? No.
Were there plot holes in the Films and TV shows? Yes and we had to use our imaginations there as well, so nothing new really.
If you have such an issue with Star Trek (or Star Trek Online) "science" I'd suggest you find elsewhere to spend your time, as it is not going to get any better.
Cap, my point is that you were attempting to analyze the moving of the Jenolan sphere using our modern understanding of physics.
Except that by our modern understanding of physics, almost nothing in this game is possible. Artificial gravity, solid holograms, FTL travel, FTL sensors (allowing you to see what's going on light-hours away in real time), FTL communications, transporters, phasers, plasma weapons as presented (especially the idea of plasma weapons with a stun setting)... almost everything from the beginning of the tutorial is physically impossible, as we currently understand it.
And this is where your suspension of disbelief slips??
I submit, sir, that your ability to simply enjoy things is in serious need of recalibration. And I say this as a semi-pro nitpicker. (I haven't found all the flaws with Armageddon, the famed test for NASA engineers, but I'm well into the double digits...)
Why does everyone assume the fold engines of the sphere would only affects things attached to the sphere? What if the fold engines affected a volumes of space which just happens to encompass the central sun and everything else inside the Sphere. Like the USS Gold?
I didn't say it would only affect the sphere, I said it was possible to move the sphere. The problem I saw was moving a sun in this manner. The sun is actually more fragile than you might think, and I would imagine that moving it with such intense energy would cause something to happen, especially since the sun itself is a huge gravitational force. I'm not dismissing the fold engines ability to move everything, inside and out, but arguing that it could be extremely dangerous to do so in this manner.
I didn't say it would only affect the sphere, I said it was possible to move the sphere. The problem I saw was moving a sun in this manner. The sun is actually more fragile than you might think, and I would imagine that moving it with such intense energy would cause something to happen, especially since the sun itself is a huge gravitational force. I'm not dismissing the fold engines ability to move everything, inside and out, but arguing that it could be extremely dangerous to do so in this manner.
IF the fold engine has such a drastic effect on the star as your suggest, what might those energies do to anything and everything else inside the sphere like, oh, me. If living matter isn't drastically affected, I don't think the centra star would be bothered.
For that matter, the star could be something like Niven's original concept for the Ringworld's "primary" - that it was in fact a gigantic fusion reactor, and its output could be shaped by magnetic fields to become a titanic fusion rocket, dragging the Ringworld along by its gravity. (IIRC, that was in fact what the Protectors aboard the Ringworld wound up doing with it in the third or fourth book.)
In the case of the sphere, it's a giant fusion reactor used to power the sphere and either generate or collect omega particles...
And that's another foolish argument. Why do you keep comparing something that can be built in a hangar, or factory, to something that's the size of a solar system? I'll say it one more time. Dyson Spheres are total, utter, rubbish.
What argument??
All I've done is point out 2 things, the first being that lots of us have countered you over and over to the point I now pity you as you keep coming back for more.
Secondly, all throughout our own history, people like you have used the word "impossible" time and time again. I gave 3 examples of things that did become real, after that word was used.
I am not and will not argue with you. I do pity you due to your limitations, I will humour you and laugh at you with your ridiculous attempts to bait people, but those of us who explained how lots of the fake tech, in the fake universe could work have already won. We won when you resorted to childish name calling (as proven in my last post).
Also, as Star Trek and Star Trek Online exist for the sole purpose of entertainment and revenue, not education or enlightenment may I suggest you try the Discovery Channel for your relaxation needs. Plus their forums (if they have any) may fit better with your ethos of what people can talk about without the need for name calling.
The only thing he is missing, is claiming the moon landings are fake - then this thread is complete
they are fake, it was all done with mirrors.
having read the first 17 pages, and laughed more than I could remember I decided to fast forward to the end and post.
First the death star: It was powered by a fusion engine, basicly a massivly huge nuclear reactor at its core, its engines both sublight and hyperdrive were located at the rear (there never seen on the films cos u never see its TRIBBLE)
The dyson spehere and moving it: we are assuming the sphere is infact within an area of space that contains other bodies, who is to day the sphere exists in the area between galaxys, or in a relativly empty area of space, they must exist, they were in voyager, as for moving it, the theory behind space folding doesnt rely on the mass or size of the object, as long as you have the technology to create such a fold (iconians) and a sufficient power source (omega) then it should be a case of creating a suitbably sizeable fold for your object to fit through, the power requrements will be massive, but less atht the requrirments for actually moving it by conventional meens.
Gravity effects: we are assuming the dyson sphere and the sun it contains has a gravitational effect on the external space, this may not be the case, the sphere itself may have some kind of gravity dampners that could prevent the collosal structure from having any influence on the external enviroment, such an idea isnt as far fetched as you may think, this is the iconians we are talking about, they or someone allied to them built this thing in the first place using tech that we nor the current races understand, so such a device could be entirely plausable.
The iconians cant even make there planet habitable again: I am sorry, but the terraforming of a devastated world may seem easy, but I would assure you it wouldnt be, take for example a similar situation on our own world, chernobyl, this is a ghost area due to the devastaion that was created with the accident, it may take us hundreds of years before we are ever able to make such an area habitable again, put this style catastrop[hy onto a planetary scale, and it dosnt matter how good your tech is, its still gona take time, plus their homeworld is more than likely toxic and hostile to all forms of alife after the tattck, making such a terraform much more difficult.
Lastly I love the way that people are complaining about theimposiblity of the dyson spehere moving, yet few if any question the transporters ability to rematerialise you anywhere on a planet without the aid of another transporter, wtf does it rematerialise you with, magic (cue magic comments).
Jorhana Kreig: KDF, Tal'is: Romulan Fed, Shona'a: Romulan KDF, Johan Paul Kreig: Fed
I sopose cave men would have thought the same thing about the pryamids if they had saw them
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
he iconians cant even make there planet habitable again: I am sorry, but the terraforming of a devastated world may seem easy, but I would assure you it wouldnt be, take for example a similar situation on our own world, chernobyl, this is a ghost area due to the devastaion that was created with the accident, it may take us hundreds of years before we are ever able to make such an area habitable again, put this style catastrop[hy onto a planetary scale, and it dosnt matter how good your tech is, its still gona take time, plus their homeworld is more than likely toxic and hostile to all forms of alife after the tattck, making such a terraform much more difficult.
Read the planetary reports in Sphere of Influence. They are entirely capable of making Iconia habitable again, but have not done so for their own reasons (we know from before that appearing to be extinct is part of their plan, and fixing Iconia is kind of a giveaway).
Now that they are actually enacting their invasion plans, the file states that servitor races have begun subspace modification in preparation for full scale terraforming, which will be accomplished using forced labor after the alpha and beta quadrants are "pacified."
if only there was a like option for posts, that last one and many others have been priceless
I know, these boards are so basic
If you stick around long enough, I bet I know who may try to deny these boards even exist, because they did not conceive of them, they cannot be here :eek:
Also, you gain points if the same person throws insults at you (double points if they are condescending) while they try to enlighten you with their "logic" and "physics" in this fictional game.
what the fork??? i just played it, because i didn't have time last week, and i can't believe what i heard. a dyson sphere can't be moved, there's just no way. i don't care how much energy you've got, it just ain't happening. okay maybe Q, but that's the only way.
star trek is sci-fi, not fantasy. you can't just make something like that happen just because it would be cool. this is why sci-fi tv shows have science advisors. cryptic, you are in desperate need of a good trek advisor. please... you need someone to stop you from doing ridiculous things like this.
am i not crazy being irked about this, or is everyone else swallowing it?
do you think that whit our current scientific understanding we will be capable of building a functional warp engine in 49 years and 3 months?
I didn't think so either.
there is basically to little is known on how stuff truly works scientifically. you may not like it but star trek is a fictional story. the big hint should be that its a science fiction (not science fact).
in the end it may or may not be possible we just don't know. what we do know is that trek is a fantasy. it's not even close to a hard SF! even those occasionally need an enabler and when it happens it's not the end of the world.
enablers in star trek that are absolutely needed to make almost any episode work are warp drive and transporters. almost all SF needs FTL travel as an enabler to make it work. now you can make it in to anything you want like: infinite improppibility dive, Holtzman drive, Element Zero, hyper space or warpdrive. in the end your enabler is still fake no matter how close you come to an actual scientific theory. the transporter needs a Heisenberg compensator to enable them to get around basic known physics.
please don't ever tell me again that trek is SF and there for (near) "reality". there are hard SFs out there staying much closer to reality than trek. the mere fact that it is an SF should tell you it's (in the end) just a fantasy.
Cryptic did something really cool here to move the story along. I don't care how scientifically right it is. I prefer space operas anyway....
THE NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM IS TERRA-BAD First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
enablers in star trek that are absolutely needed to make almost any episode work are warp drive and transporters.......
I read a funny little story once, about why Star Trek ended up with "transporters".
The boiled down version is, after lots of talk about the "trek" aspect of the show, the ships crew were going to lots of different and varied places - turns out, the special effects for a shuttle ride to the planet and back up again for each show was going to cost - A LOT.
So, with this little hiccup, the question was: how can we get the ship crew from A to B in a more cost effective manner where FX were not going to kill the budget.
With a torch, some foil paper, a clear tube and an odd sound.... suddenly mankind had developed technology to turn a person into energy and transmit them anywhere... all on the cheap
TRIBBLE it, this is a fantasy game, right? I think in the next season we should find out in a bizarre plot twist, in a briefing from Fleet Admiral Teddy Ruxpin, that the Dyson Spheres are actually gigantic, Pacman space defense weapons. And the Voth are trying to save the Delta quadrant, by reactivating them, so they can eat some more stars, which are actually giant power pellets, in order to "power up" and eat the four humungous, planet devouring, space ghosts, that long range Voth sensors have detected, moving towards the Delta quadrant. And in the most epic space battle in STO yet, the Federation/Romulan/Klingon/Donkey Kong alliance has to fight a rear guard action, against a sneak attack by the Undine controlled Mechagodzilla/flying monkey/Oompa loompa armada. But we have to do this while flying Chitty, Chitty, Bang, Bang, not our own starships. But we'll have access to some new special abilities like Attack Pattern Ronald McDonald to play with. Oh, right, and somehow the Iconians that don't even have a planet to live on, engineered this.
You don't have to like it, but it's Star Trek. It's what Star Trek is now, and pretty much what it has been.
Only difference is that the magic became more frequent as the franchise grew older. Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Scotty often came up with more practical solutions. Later crews usually just had to figure out the proper technobabble to throw at the problem or program the holodeck to make all of their problems go away (especially when the holodeck was the source of their problems in the first place).
If there was some series on now picking up the timeline where Voyager left off, the Federation would probably be making their own fully functional Dyson Spheres using holodeck technology.
The original plans involved regular shuttle landings and rare landings of the ship itself, transporters were revised in for budget purposes - they removed two permanent ship sets and the landing gear set pieces, and allowed modular and reusable sets (plus ones shamelessly borrowed from other shows) to be used without modifying them to fit the shuttle in.
Transporters also cut several pages from every script and improved pacing, but Roddenberry said that was a secondary benefit in The Making of Star Trek, and that had the budget been there from the start the show would have suffered from slow starts as he landed the ship every week. It took Star Trek The Motion Picture for some of the people involved to learn the lesson of slow pacing.
Comments
Why does everyone assume the fold engines of the sphere would only affects things attached to the sphere? What if the fold engines affected a volumes of space which just happens to encompass the central sun and everything else inside the Sphere. Like the USS Gold?
We have Q that has us fight snowmen and save gingerbread people so almost anything is possible, but it seems that Q's only weakness is licenses so while we could have bikini clad superheroine bridge bunnies, we can't have bikini clad Selena Kyle/Harley Quinn bridge bunnies.
Noooooo! I bought stock in chemlights!
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I can't believe I hadn't noticed the maps names when running the FE. But @jonsills is quite correct, the Brown Dwarf destination given to the sphere's central star is in no way accurate.
From a pure science point of view. a Brown Dwarf is an object that is between a Giant planned and a small star. In size it would be between 1 and 80 Jupiters in mass. It's not massive enough to start fusing hydrogen. The only energy you would get out of it would be it's internal heat. You'd be better off using it's hydrogen to fuel arrays of fusion reactors.
From the environmental view of the maps, the star being depicted is a main stage star. It's has the cell structtures that we see on the surface of our Sun, solar prominences, black spots, all features of an active star. A brown dwarf doesn't burn hydrogen. It would look something like Jupiter or Saturn except be much bigger. The only light would be in the infrared band of light, much like a cosmic space heater.
And I'll disagree with @jonsills about the star being an M Class star. The state size of the Solanae sphere could put it outside of the goldilocks zone of such a star. A Dysonsphere for an M class star would have to be much smaller.
The flip side of preventing runaway heating is that once you have temperature control in place, you don't need to get rid of *all* the excess, you can allow enough buildup to warm the surface to your species' desired temperature.
Now, I must not have been paying attention, I don't recall the FE ever calling the star a brown dwarf, and I religiously read text on new missions. I did notice there's a good chunk of variability in this one, even in some small details (the systems you start losing while aligning the flare suppressors aren't always the same), so it could be something I didn't get or overlooked, but... I'll argue about that after playing through again.
You aren't the only religious text reader who missed it. It's the text that we don't tend to read religiously. It's the name of the map where you fly around the station and realign the Flare Suppressors.
Treid to make a distiction between "science fiction" and "fiction". - Countered
Treid to say the sphere would build up pressure and heat then explode. - Countered
Tried to say it would suffer lack of maintenance. - Countered
Used unreliable source material to back up your claims. - Countered
When all else failed, your answers resorted to insulting, condescending and nonsensical drivel. As shown below;
@sopwithsnipe
@markhawkman
@jockey1979
@markhawkman
@markhawkman
@jockey1979
@vhiranikos
@mithrosnomore (this one goes on, cropped a lot of the rubbish out)
@starkaos
@orondis
@thecosmic1 (even though the post was not to you, you felt the need to try and belittle the poster)
@jockey1979 (3 insults in 1 post)
@jonsills
Plus, quoting lines from the Matrix makes 14 out of 41 posts were unnecessary and pointless.
Every time someone counters you, you just try to act smarter than them, once that fails you resort to insults. Nine (9) different names above, of people who have shown you for what you are. How you got three (3) or four (4) is beyond me, with so much evidence leaping out of this thread.
Just because you're limited and cannot comprehend the existence of a Dyson Sphere, does not mean it cannot exist. The same was said about flying, wireless communication, transport without horses and so on - yet here we are.
Why you're even here is mystifying, unless it is for the sole purpose of either being a troll or you have some sort of complex that requires you to attempt to upset others for your own self gratification, who knows.
Am I happy the players have had to fill the plot holes in the story? No.
Were there plot holes in the Films and TV shows? Yes and we had to use our imaginations there as well, so nothing new really.
If you have such an issue with Star Trek (or Star Trek Online) "science" I'd suggest you find elsewhere to spend your time, as it is not going to get any better.
Except that by our modern understanding of physics, almost nothing in this game is possible. Artificial gravity, solid holograms, FTL travel, FTL sensors (allowing you to see what's going on light-hours away in real time), FTL communications, transporters, phasers, plasma weapons as presented (especially the idea of plasma weapons with a stun setting)... almost everything from the beginning of the tutorial is physically impossible, as we currently understand it.
And this is where your suspension of disbelief slips??
I submit, sir, that your ability to simply enjoy things is in serious need of recalibration. And I say this as a semi-pro nitpicker. (I haven't found all the flaws with Armageddon, the famed test for NASA engineers, but I'm well into the double digits...)
Wait. There's a really big difference between Dan Simmons Ilium, Hal Duncan's Vellum, and Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn.
I didn't say it would only affect the sphere, I said it was possible to move the sphere. The problem I saw was moving a sun in this manner. The sun is actually more fragile than you might think, and I would imagine that moving it with such intense energy would cause something to happen, especially since the sun itself is a huge gravitational force. I'm not dismissing the fold engines ability to move everything, inside and out, but arguing that it could be extremely dangerous to do so in this manner.
IF the fold engine has such a drastic effect on the star as your suggest, what might those energies do to anything and everything else inside the sphere like, oh, me. If living matter isn't drastically affected, I don't think the centra star would be bothered.
In the case of the sphere, it's a giant fusion reactor used to power the sphere and either generate or collect omega particles...
What argument??
All I've done is point out 2 things, the first being that lots of us have countered you over and over to the point I now pity you as you keep coming back for more.
Secondly, all throughout our own history, people like you have used the word "impossible" time and time again. I gave 3 examples of things that did become real, after that word was used.
I am not and will not argue with you. I do pity you due to your limitations, I will humour you and laugh at you with your ridiculous attempts to bait people, but those of us who explained how lots of the fake tech, in the fake universe could work have already won. We won when you resorted to childish name calling (as proven in my last post).
Also, as Star Trek and Star Trek Online exist for the sole purpose of entertainment and revenue, not education or enlightenment may I suggest you try the Discovery Channel for your relaxation needs. Plus their forums (if they have any) may fit better with your ethos of what people can talk about without the need for name calling.
Ace
The only thing he is missing, is claiming the moon landings are fake - then this thread is complete
they are fake, it was all done with mirrors.
having read the first 17 pages, and laughed more than I could remember I decided to fast forward to the end and post.
First the death star: It was powered by a fusion engine, basicly a massivly huge nuclear reactor at its core, its engines both sublight and hyperdrive were located at the rear (there never seen on the films cos u never see its TRIBBLE)
The dyson spehere and moving it: we are assuming the sphere is infact within an area of space that contains other bodies, who is to day the sphere exists in the area between galaxys, or in a relativly empty area of space, they must exist, they were in voyager, as for moving it, the theory behind space folding doesnt rely on the mass or size of the object, as long as you have the technology to create such a fold (iconians) and a sufficient power source (omega) then it should be a case of creating a suitbably sizeable fold for your object to fit through, the power requrements will be massive, but less atht the requrirments for actually moving it by conventional meens.
Gravity effects: we are assuming the dyson sphere and the sun it contains has a gravitational effect on the external space, this may not be the case, the sphere itself may have some kind of gravity dampners that could prevent the collosal structure from having any influence on the external enviroment, such an idea isnt as far fetched as you may think, this is the iconians we are talking about, they or someone allied to them built this thing in the first place using tech that we nor the current races understand, so such a device could be entirely plausable.
The iconians cant even make there planet habitable again: I am sorry, but the terraforming of a devastated world may seem easy, but I would assure you it wouldnt be, take for example a similar situation on our own world, chernobyl, this is a ghost area due to the devastaion that was created with the accident, it may take us hundreds of years before we are ever able to make such an area habitable again, put this style catastrop[hy onto a planetary scale, and it dosnt matter how good your tech is, its still gona take time, plus their homeworld is more than likely toxic and hostile to all forms of alife after the tattck, making such a terraform much more difficult.
Lastly I love the way that people are complaining about theimposiblity of the dyson spehere moving, yet few if any question the transporters ability to rematerialise you anywhere on a planet without the aid of another transporter, wtf does it rematerialise you with, magic (cue magic comments).
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Read the planetary reports in Sphere of Influence. They are entirely capable of making Iconia habitable again, but have not done so for their own reasons (we know from before that appearing to be extinct is part of their plan, and fixing Iconia is kind of a giveaway).
Now that they are actually enacting their invasion plans, the file states that servitor races have begun subspace modification in preparation for full scale terraforming, which will be accomplished using forced labor after the alpha and beta quadrants are "pacified."
I know, these boards are so basic
If you stick around long enough, I bet I know who may try to deny these boards even exist, because they did not conceive of them, they cannot be here :eek:
Also, you gain points if the same person throws insults at you (double points if they are condescending) while they try to enlighten you with their "logic" and "physics" in this fictional game.
Bonus 10 points for being called "Ace".
Enjoy
do you think that whit our current scientific understanding we will be capable of building a functional warp engine in 49 years and 3 months?
I didn't think so either.
there is basically to little is known on how stuff truly works scientifically. you may not like it but star trek is a fictional story. the big hint should be that its a science fiction (not science fact).
in the end it may or may not be possible we just don't know. what we do know is that trek is a fantasy. it's not even close to a hard SF! even those occasionally need an enabler and when it happens it's not the end of the world.
enablers in star trek that are absolutely needed to make almost any episode work are warp drive and transporters. almost all SF needs FTL travel as an enabler to make it work. now you can make it in to anything you want like: infinite improppibility dive, Holtzman drive, Element Zero, hyper space or warpdrive. in the end your enabler is still fake no matter how close you come to an actual scientific theory. the transporter needs a Heisenberg compensator to enable them to get around basic known physics.
please don't ever tell me again that trek is SF and there for (near) "reality". there are hard SFs out there staying much closer to reality than trek. the mere fact that it is an SF should tell you it's (in the end) just a fantasy.
Cryptic did something really cool here to move the story along. I don't care how scientifically right it is. I prefer space operas anyway....
First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
I read a funny little story once, about why Star Trek ended up with "transporters".
The boiled down version is, after lots of talk about the "trek" aspect of the show, the ships crew were going to lots of different and varied places - turns out, the special effects for a shuttle ride to the planet and back up again for each show was going to cost - A LOT.
So, with this little hiccup, the question was: how can we get the ship crew from A to B in a more cost effective manner where FX were not going to kill the budget.
With a torch, some foil paper, a clear tube and an odd sound.... suddenly mankind had developed technology to turn a person into energy and transmit them anywhere... all on the cheap
You don't have to like it, but it's Star Trek. It's what Star Trek is now, and pretty much what it has been.
Only difference is that the magic became more frequent as the franchise grew older. Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Scotty often came up with more practical solutions. Later crews usually just had to figure out the proper technobabble to throw at the problem or program the holodeck to make all of their problems go away (especially when the holodeck was the source of their problems in the first place).
If there was some series on now picking up the timeline where Voyager left off, the Federation would probably be making their own fully functional Dyson Spheres using holodeck technology.
Erm... Yes, it is.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Transporter#Origins
The original plans involved regular shuttle landings and rare landings of the ship itself, transporters were revised in for budget purposes - they removed two permanent ship sets and the landing gear set pieces, and allowed modular and reusable sets (plus ones shamelessly borrowed from other shows) to be used without modifying them to fit the shuttle in.
Transporters also cut several pages from every script and improved pacing, but Roddenberry said that was a secondary benefit in The Making of Star Trek, and that had the budget been there from the start the show would have suffered from slow starts as he landed the ship every week. It took Star Trek The Motion Picture for some of the people involved to learn the lesson of slow pacing.