I would like to ask those who oppose it exactly how it's hurting them. If you say that it will make the masses lazy, well that happened a long time ago and nothing Cryptic does will effect that either way. I have no real care either way since I only change ships when leveling an alt when I have to go to a hub to get a new ship anyway.
Yeah I'm not a huge fan I must confess. I'd be in favour of having the ability to change on your shuttlecraft though, notionally being taken from one starship to the other.
You sort of can. Or at least from your shuttlecraft, you can switch from ship/shuttle/last big ship you had out. So although not your full roster, you can at least switch easy between a pvp ship and a pve ship, provided you remember to ready them both before you leave a starbase.
Personally, this makes no difference to me. As I like to rp, I'll probably still make my way to the fleet starbase to switch, but it's good news for those that dont. Or if I want to just quickly switch for a quick messing about, it's handy for that.
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A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
OP: you're completely correct. Having rapid access to change out gear or ships is completely unrealistic.
Therefore I propose that you can't change ships without giving your entire crew time to pack up their gear, put your active ship into mothballs, de-mothball your new ship, fuel and arm it, stock provisions and generally perform a shakedown cruise prior to assuming active service.
As such changing ships should take anywhere between 4-12 weeks depending on crew performance. While this is occurring your character is unavailable because they must oversee this entire operation, so I hope you have an alt.
Sounds good yes? :P
I find your sarcastic comment on the OP's opinion rather hillarious after seeing your avatar pic. :rolleyes:
There is no rpg play involved in changing ships now and just being somewhere doesnt count. Thats like saying i cant start a sci doff assignment without being on my ships map and in a sci lab area. Its just stupid. Or you cant switch uniform anywhere except the captains quarters cause what would people say if your captain started swichting his uniform on the ds9 promenade.
So the new system just avoids loads of clicks but doesnt hurt rpg. If you want to restrict yourself from using this stuff an where else other than esd be my guest. But trying to force other players to do the same is plain arrogance. I have to put up with all the kiddies running around with their weapons on their backs and badly designed uniforms and ships so if i can pit up with all that you guys can out up with faster changing between ships. Noone forces you to use it in any way you dont want.
And bank slots to store all the gear for "quick-change" layouts.
If they solved the problem that resulted in the geometric increase of processing power to handle zone transitions so they can facilitate an increase in the ship count, that would be great news.
You peeps are amazing! For years ppl have been complaining about having no ship loadout save/load functionality; and now that the devs finally listened, and gave us what we wanted, what y'all do?! Compain about something as trivial as the ability to change ships in space!
You know what?! You don't want to change your ships in space? Then don't. Go to ESD, and change it there; see if I care.
And like the person above said, we'll take your ability to change uniforms away too! Unless you're at a tailor; cuz changing it right-smack in the shipyard, OMG, that totally breaks immersion! /sarcasm
This is a game, for crying out-loud. Some things are meant to look realistic, others are just a convenient game-mechanic.
So it seems that season 8.5 will give us the opportunity to change our starships in sector space. Good or bad? I say bad.
Being able to change your ship out of spacedock is bad for a number of reasons.
1) It further diminishes the believability of the game.
2) It's lazy and a form of instant gratification.
3) It focuses more people in the areas that are deemed useful.
I'm an old-time gamer. For about a decade I immediately dismissed and was aggrivated by anyone using two letter abbreviations and 133+ speak in their chat on what was supposed to be RP Servers. Ah the 2000s, we'll never get you back...:rolleyes:
Since then I've become a podcaster, a blog writer, a novice game designer, a liason officer for a Mechwarrior Online unit, a husband, and a homeowner. My time that I can devote to playing an online game has diminished considerably, but I want to play the game. STO is near and dear to my heart. I'm a long time Trekker and I keep coming back to this game. My family name is in the game, after all. I have to keep coming back. (Next time you're in the Maiewski system, say 'hi' to my grandma...)
To that end, much like I've had to give up some of my hard-line stances on play-time (I used to do 4-5 hours a night, regularly) and communication etiquette (It's "YOU ARE", not "UR"!), I've also come to realize that I am no longer the target audience. Or at least, my old playstyle is not the current mainstream norm. But this is okay, because I don't have that kind of time anymore. I want to log in and get playing, and anything that slows that down or cuts into my play time really limits my fun. Yes, it's cool to see my ship cruising through sector space, and pan the camera around to see how it looks, but I want to get to where I'm going to get PLAYING. If I suddenly need to change ships, I can't afford to lose 25%, 15%, or even 10% of my play-time to logistics of going to ESD or DS9 if I want to change it. I already lose a chunk of time moving gear from one ship to the other. On a weekend where I have hours, that's fine, but if I've got an hour on a Tuesday, I want to play a mission, not shuffle ship components and ships.
To your points:
1: The game is already unbelievable; we have so many Bridge Officers of other factions, and we can't even change their uniforms. I get that 7 of 9 and T'Pol didn't wear a starfleet uniform, but that's one character of the "bridge crew". Everyone else on their series were in Starfleet attire. If we have to use our Breen, and Liberated Borg, and Reman bridge officers, then they should let us decide who's in a Starfleet Uniform and who isn't.
We've got Federation starships using non-phasers. Constellation and NX-1 class stips flying around with the latest Cruisers. Romulan Republic captains being assigned Federation starships (are the Feds selling them their surplus ships? When did the Defiant and the Enterprise-F become "surplus"?).
And all these points I mention are ones that the player makes, or doesn't. You don't have to use the Breen/Reman BOffs, or use anything but Phasers on your USS Whatchamacallit. Other players can, it's their choice that only affects you peripherally.
The game is already unbelievable. This really doesn't have to affect your style of gameplay at all.
2: True, it coddles the Lazy. It also helps out those of us who only have an hour a night to play get into the action, instead of losing ten minutes to fly to the nearest starbase and make the ship change. That's an extra fleet action I'm not playing because of that. The lazy players just get a benefit too, and again this doesn't have to affect your gameplay at all. Those players who crowded into the Shipyard on ESD to talk about their "schwedy balls" or blather about the lates pop-culture diva's big breakdown might not be there now.
That, OP, is a bonus.
3: This would be true if this was an RPG. It isn't, or at least it's not anymore. There are RPG fleets, and Role Players, but for the most part the game is now about building the most bad-TRIBBLE starship and kicking tail with it. And talking to your friends/fellow players. All in a Star Trek skin. This game is about the single player now; there's not much I can do in a pre-made group that I can't do solo or with PUGs.
Forcing people to go someplace to do something isn't making a place "useful", it's making it "a chore". Give people a reason to want to go to a location; that's how you make it useful. Having there be only one ATM in one Mall in a city doesn't make the mall useful, it just makes traffic to that mall unneccesarily heavy and TRIBBLE people off that they have to go to this one location if they want cash. Have quests and games and reasons to stick around and hang out at that mall, and then put ATMs elsewhere so your mall isn't crowded with pissed off folks who need cash.
Sad fact (in my opinion) is that STO isn't about "playing Star Trek" anymore. It's an MMO with a Star Trek skin, with brief moments of feeling like you're in the show. The devs have done some really cool stories, and so have the Foundry authors, but I hardly play them because I'm too busy doing my Dailies to save up Dilithium and Rep Marks for MK XII gear, because I can do 3-6 dailies in an hour to net me more currency than one or two actual storyline/Foundry missions.
I'm sad to see it go that way, becuase I miss the immersion, the feeling like I'm in Star Trek, not just playing it.
So to wrap it up; sorry Chief, our game is already gone. All we can do now is enjoy the scenery and the memories as long as we can.
I for one will be quite pleased if this means that I don't have to rearrange my skill bar every time I move from whatever ship I've been using regularly to my Suliban Cell Ship and back again, or switch from my Tal'Shiar Destroyer to my R'mor and back again, or switch from my T'varo Retrofit to my Obelisk and back again, or ...
Because the way it has been so far has served only to discourage me from changing ships based on which might be more effective for any given mission.
And as for changing ships wherever, I can go to my bridge and change from my current vessel to my SCS, leave the bridge and be on the SCS, go to that bridge and change to any ship in my squadron, leave the bridge and be on the newly-selected ship. In other words, it's already possible, but with unnecessary extra steps, and if someone thinks that the unnecessary extra steps somehow promote "realism" (yeah, I read that thread, too), then I say smite him with a wet noodle, because he's a killjoy.
STO isn't about "playing Star Trek" anymore. It's an MMO with a Star Trek skin, with brief moments of feeling like you're in the show. The devs have done some really cool stories, and so have the Foundry authors, but I hardly play them because I'm too busy doing my Dailies to save up Dilithium and Rep Marks for MK XII gear, because I can do 3-6 dailies in an hour to net me more currency than one or two actual storyline/Foundry missions.
I'm sad to see it go that way, becuase I miss the immersion, the feeling like I'm in Star Trek, not just playing it.
So to wrap it up; sorry Chief, our game is already gone. All we can do now is enjoy the scenery and the memories as long as we can.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but this last part throws me a little. You miss playing immersive stories, but then choose not to play them so you can grind dailies for loot? Isn't that a choice too? I depends on what you want most out of the game. For me, immersive content outweights the gear grind.
I tried grinding dailies for a bit and got bored with it and went back to playing the mission content and Foundry. Since I don't PvP or raid, I'm not worried about having the best gear. Any game I play is for fun, not work. If it starts feeling like a job, it's no longer worth playing. Will it take me longer to get MK XII gear? Sure, but that's not a priority for me.
Do I still do dailies? On occasion, but just to add mission variety. I treat them mostly like any other mission, except that I will do them more than once on a given character over time. The same is true for the rep missions. I did the New Romulus grind on one character; I'll never do so again. I will play New Romulus missions, again to add variety, but I will not grind to get the rep. If it comes over time, great. But maxing rep will not be a goal, just a side effect of gameplay.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but this last part throws me a little. You miss playing immersive stories, but then choose not to play them so you can grind dailies for loot? Isn't that a choice too? I depends on what you want most out of the game. For me, immersive content outweights the gear grind.
I tried grinding dailies for a bit and got bored with it and went back to playing the mission content and Foundry. Since I don't PvP or raid, I'm not worried about having the best gear. Any game I play is for fun, not work. If it starts feeling like a job, it's no longer worth playing. Will it take me longer to get MK XII gear? Sure, but that's not a priority for me.
Do I still do dailies? On occasion, but just to add mission variety. I treat them mostly like any other mission, except that I will do them more than once on a given character over time. The same is true for the rep missions. I did the New Romulus grind on one character; I'll never do so again. I will play New Romulus missions, again to add variety, but I will not grind to get the rep. If it comes over time, great. But maxing rep will not be a goal, just a side effect of gameplay.
Good question! And yes, it is my choice. It's all about focus; my focus right now is that I'm jealous of all these folks with their Tier 5 Omega rep and all the borg gear they have for their ships. I can "just fly my ship" like the next guy, but there comes a point where my own need to have a build that isn't horribly inneficient kicks in.
I'm also lamenting the fact that because of my life I no longer have the time to play as much as I want to, so I have to choose what is most imortant to me at that time. Sometimes I do want the immersion of the story. Sometimes I want that bad TRIBBLE borg deflector dish...
Know what I find quite silly about all of this. Wanting PWE to do immersion for ALL of us.
You want immersion, best do it yourself. Want REAL RP. Well take off the RA pips, sell ALL but one ship, load it up with faction specific weapons. So fed phasers only though you can have quantum torps. No maco or any other gear like that. Probably be ok with AGEIS set for engines and the like, but 1 ship, you are a captain, and you can have a shuttle or two.
1 setup. That's it. BOFFS, nobody but fed personnel only same with DOFFS.
OK you now have your immersion, go play. Sound like fun?
No not really.
Want immersion that's up to the PLAYER, not the game company.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Know what I find quite silly about all of this. Wanting PWE to do immersion for ALL of us.
You want immersion, best do it yourself. Want REAL RP. Well take off the RA pips, sell ALL but one ship, load it up with faction specific weapons. So fed phasers only though you can have quantum torps. No maco or any other gear like that. Probably be ok with AGEIS set for engines and the like, but 1 ship, you are a captain, and you can have a shuttle or two.
1 setup. That's it. BOFFS, nobody but fed personnel only same with DOFFS.
OK you now have your immersion, go play. Sound like fun?
No not really.
Want immersion that's up to the PLAYER, not the game company.
Actually, it kinda does sound like fun...
But I agree with you; the way the game has grown that is totally for the player to decide, not PWE.
I mean... Roleplaying is supposed to be an exercise in imagination and self control. Table top games have no mechanisms to stop you from breaking character, or running a campaign like a game of Diablo. They give you a setting, encourage you to immerse yourself in that setting and set aside your own personality, and then give you infinite reason not to except for the fact that you might as well just break out a Monopoly board if you're going to play like that.
There is no reason for guardrails around your RP unless you don't actually want to RP but for some reason want to be forced to.
I mean... Roleplaying is supposed to be an exercise in imagination and self control. Table top games have no mechanisms to stop you from breaking character, or running a campaign like a game of Diablo. They give you a setting, encourage you to immerse yourself in that setting and set aside your own personality, and then give you infinite reason not to except for the fact that you might as well just break out a Monopoly board if you're going to play like that.
There is no reason for guardrails around your RP unless you don't actually want to RP but for some reason want to be forced to.
Actaully, I think it's more apt to say that trying to immerse yourself in STO (or any MMO these days) is like trying to role play in the mall food court (here I am back at the mall...)
You can do it, and the people at your table might be into it, but all around you are people talking about real life, rushing around doing their own things at their own volume, or in some cases making fun of your for role playing. All of which are going to break your immersion. So you have to go to a corner of the food court (less populated zone) or do what you should have done in the first place and play at home (instanced/invite-only zone).
Again, totally agree that it's up to the player to RP, in spite of the weird glances from passer-bys on their phones or the jerks at the next table over making fun of you for it and throwing fries at your minis.
It is not PWE's job to force the playerbase into immersion. Immersion is up to the player. It is up to PWE to decide what they're going to provide to the player base that's going to allow PWE to pay their employees.
OP: you're completely correct. Having rapid access to change out gear or ships is completely unrealistic.
Therefore I propose that you can't change ships without giving your entire crew time to pack up their gear, put your active ship into mothballs, de-mothball your new ship, fuel and arm it, stock provisions and generally perform a shakedown cruise prior to assuming active service.
As such changing ships should take anywhere between 4-12 weeks depending on crew performance. While this is occurring your character is unavailable because they must oversee this entire operation, so I hope you have an alt.
Sounds good yes? :P
Time is greatly compressed in this game. As someone mentioned earlier you can cross the Federation in 10 minutes or so. That being said, all the actions you described should be compressed, too. There should be a cooldown on ship changing to accommodate this, like there is on slipstream.
I would like to ask those who oppose it exactly how it's hurting them. If you say that it will make the masses lazy, well that happened a long time ago and nothing Cryptic does will effect that either way. I have no real care either way since I only change ships when levelling an alt when I have to go to a hub to get a new ship anyway.
How is it hurting me? Good question. The answer is it's not hurting me, but it's hurting the game. How? By dumbing down the game.
The STF location of DS9 is now useless as you can get Omega gear anywhere. This greatly diminished the need to go to DS9, one of the most iconic locations in this game. This could be rectified if you had to go to a collection point to pick up the gear you obtain from reputations, or have it delivered by the Tuffli, Cell ship or Azura.
The ability to transwarp to ANY mission location by paying EC. Completely renders any space between you and the mission useless.
Now we'll have the ability to change ships on the fly.
These instant gratifications are only going to continue due to peoples' innate tendency to want moar things now. The responsible thing is to resist these dumbing down features, even though they may sound cool and easy. I myself can see how convenient it will be to be able to change ships but I oppose the idea because my convenience shouldn't contribute to this game being dumbed down.
By reducing the requirements to actually go places or travel through places to get to your destination this game is actually getting smaller.
These instant gratifications are only going to continue due to peoples' innate tendency to want moar things now. The responsible thing is to resist these dumbing down features, even though they may sound cool and easy. I myself can see how convenient it will be to be able to change ships but I oppose the idea because my convenience shouldn't contribute to this game being dumbed down.
So convienience "dumbs the game down", and an elite, sophisticated player should recognize the "smartness" of forcing people to cross sector space the long way?
No, that's just your self-important little role-player opinion, and you do not define these terms for the rest of us. Some people see no benefit to wading through sectors and multiple loading screens to get to their destinations. If you disagree, you are perfectly free to do it the hard way. Punish yourself if you want, but don't expect the rest of us to play along.
So it seems that season 8.5 will give us the opportunity to change our starships in sector space. Good or bad? I say bad.
Being able to change your ship out of spacedock is bad for a number of reasons.
1) It further diminishes the believability of the game.
Yes, games require a person to suspend disbelief, but if something becomes more and more and more unbelievable it becomes a farce.
2) It's lazy and a form of instant gratification.
What is it with the need for instant gratification? I want my other ship NOW, DAMN IT!!! Didn't people get taught patience when they were younger? What's the next instant gratification, being able to call the Azura with no countdown? Then what? No cooldown on transwarp? Then what? Press a button to level up? Every time the game gets its challenges removed the less rewarding it becomes and the less people will play it. What's the point if there's nothing to work through/overcome/spend time doing?
3) It focuses more people in the areas that are deemed useful.
DS9 was a useful location as it was the only place where you could do STF stuff. Now it's a lot more quiet as there's no real need to be there. The need to go to spacedock will be greatly diminished, pushing more people in to other areas. What's next, putting a dabo table and latinum trader on ESD? That would make it so much more easier for those lazy people who want everything now but it would deaden Drozana and DS9 a little bit more. The less and less we need to travel to certain places to do things the lazier this game feels.
SOLUTION
Don't allow players to change ships in sector space. Make people travel to spacedock to do it. Whilst you're at it, start giving more importance to places that the player has to travel to. Give us reasons to actually go somewhere instead of giving us instant access to this mission or that resource. We need something for a mission or for crafting something? Make us work to get it. Product X can only be obtained from K7, item Y can only be crafted at DS9, task Z can only be initiated from Vulcan. After all, the easier the game gets the less interesting it becomes.
I know there will be people who disagree with my opinion but can we please have constructive responses instead of insults?
I am an instant gratification sold out. Gimme more baby!!!:D
I seriously disagree with the notion that I should have to "work" for the rewards of this game. If I have to work for something, that means I'm spending my time doing something I don't like to get something I want. That's bad design. That's dangling a heroin-laced carrot over the hamster wheel. I don't want be chasing items, because when the time comes that I no longer feel compelled to seek loot, the game becomes shallow.
Let's face it, the main content of this game is just not that good. The artwork is excellent, but the missions are one-dimensional and asking me to run them repeatedly to earn enough currency to buy items is just frustrating. Why do I have to grind? Why must I do STF's over and over each day instead of just having a new adventure every day? Grinding the PvE queue gets boring ultra fast. There needs to be a way to play new content every day without having to grind the same handful of missions ad nauseum. Somehow there needs to be a "foundry" for STF missions, something that let's people create multiplayer user-generated content. Cryptic should just make a "box'o'legos", so to speak, for the foundry so it can be used to remix it into new missions with new art assets. It would also be great if you could play foundry missions to level up your character instead of being tied to episode missions, which would let you have a self-directed narrative for every character you play. Every character would get its own custom story through playing Foundry missions, build their own exclusive narrative and background. Maybe even include an "achievement" system for the Foundry that grants awards for exceptional performance (e.g. Repelling attackers without any civilian casualties while playing elite difficulty) to further enhance the uniqueness of one's personal story.
So I say TRIBBLE the idea that people should work for the "good" stuff and, instead, make game content people will not want to skip because it's just too good to skip. Then, keep that ball rolling so there's always something new to draw people in. The Foundry has the potential to provide this game with nearly limitless replay value and yet it's tucked away in a dark corner instead of being brought front and center so everyone can see it.
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
You want immersion, best do it yourself. Want REAL RP. Well take off the RA pips, sell ALL but one ship, load it up with faction specific weapons. So fed phasers only though you can have quantum torps. No maco or any other gear like that. Probably be ok with AGEIS set for engines and the like, but 1 ship, you are a captain, and you can have a shuttle or two.
1 setup. That's it. BOFFS, nobody but fed personnel only same with DOFFS.
OK you now have your immersion, go play. Sound like fun?
No not really.
Want immersion that's up to the PLAYER, not the game company.
I would respectfully disagree abpout the "fun" bit, this is how my 4 alts are all set up... themed around a single race with appropriate gear (Omega / Fleet does well here, I'd argue that MACO / Honor Guard is native Fed / Klingon tech). Well the Klingons each have a single Romulan "tactical advisor" and that's it. And those builds do OK in casual PVP and ESTFs. It means compromising in some areas but I think my lack of skill is more of an issue.
Point is, though, you're right - the ability to instantly swap ships in sector space should not really a gamebreaker even for purists. I'll be interested to see how the mechanisms work, and whether things like hotkeys, tray layouts, and unique gear can be swapped. If I only have one Elite fleet shield - do I still need to go to a starbase to manually move it between ships?
Anyway, in a couple of places, this actually supports RP. Switching from a Vo'quv to a fleet B'rel, for example, or a Bortas'qu to a Hoh'sus, is thematically appropriate even for a diehard RP purist. All this change does is reduce the time spent conducting the in-game equivalent of rearranging your stamp collection.
Personally, I suspect that you'll need enough gear to equip all the "online" ships, and that's why Cryptic will do it - so that players have the incentive to grind / pay for multiple high-end gear sets.
I would respectfully disagree abpout the "fun" bit, this is how my 4 alts are all set up... themed around a single race with appropriate gear (Omega / Fleet does well here, I'd argue that MACO / Honor Guard is native Fed / Klingon tech). Well the Klingons each have a single Romulan "tactical advisor" and that's it. And those builds do OK in casual PVP and ESTFs. It means compromising in some areas but I think my lack of skill is more of an issue.
Point is, though, you're right - the ability to instantly swap ships in sector space should not really a gamebreaker even for purists. I'll be interested to see how the mechanisms work, and whether things like hotkeys, tray layouts, and unique gear can be swapped. If I only have one Elite fleet shield - do I still need to go to a starbase to manually move it between ships?
Anyway, in a couple of places, this actually supports RP. Switching from a Vo'quv to a fleet B'rel, for example, or a Bortas'qu to a Hoh'sus, is thematically appropriate even for a diehard RP purist. All this change does is reduce the time spent conducting the in-game equivalent of rearranging your stamp collection.
Personally, I suspect that you'll need enough gear to equip all the "online" ships, and that's why Cryptic will do it - so that players have the incentive to grind / pay for multiple high-end gear sets.
Amen brother, that is my goal, my Romulan to have everything Romulan in my ship, the same with my Klingon and my human Federation, hopefully I can do that in the future for my other characters.
If we go by logic in this game, then everything starts to fall apart.
If you don't like the fact that you can switch in sector space, no one is forcing you to use it. It's not instant gratification, it's a convince.
I mean, let's say I'm in a ship equipped to deal with Voth, and a fleet-mate asks if I want to team up for an STF, it saves me time to quickly switch to my STF build ship right then and there then having to zip off through 2 or 3 load screens just for changing to a ship I will be in for 10 minutes, and will switch out of when the mission is over. I'm currently breaking in a Defiant Retro-fit I got with my 600 day token, but might need my Mobius time ship for crowd control duty in an "infected" because it can freeze time.
Everyone seems to have an idea in their heads as to what this game should be. Problem is most of them have no say in the matter. The devs have the right to change the game as they see fit, except unless CBS intervenes. So unless CBS says "You can't let them change in sector space," you're up a creek without a paddle.
But, like it has been said; Breaks your immersion? DON'T USE IT!
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
If we go by logic in this game, then everything starts to fall apart.
If you don't like the fact that you can switch in sector space, no one is forcing you to use it. It's not instant gratification, it's a convince.
I mean, let's say I'm in a ship equipped to deal with Voth, and a fleet-mate asks if I want to team up for an STF, it saves me time to quickly switch to my STF build ship right then and there then having to zip off through 2 or 3 load screens just for changing to a ship I will be in for 10 minutes, and will switch out of when the mission is over. I'm currently breaking in a Defiant Retro-fit I got with my 600 day token, but might need my Mobius time ship for crowd control duty in an "infected" because it can freeze time.
Everyone seems to have an idea in their heads as to what this game should be. Problem is most of them have no say in the matter. The devs have the right to change the game as they see fit, except unless CBS intervenes. So unless CBS says "You can't let them change in sector space," you're up a creek without a paddle.
But, like it has been said; Breaks your immersion? DON'T USE IT!
Indee 2 thumbs up to you, if like you said you don't like something do not use it.
I am afraid I must concur with the OP. Players may have asked for this (I wouldn't mind seeing where it was asked either) but, quite simply, those people are lazy. That ain't necessarily a bad thing, but social zones are already taking a hit because people don't venture to them, and some sectors have taken a hit because people can just transwarp everywhere.
If they go ahead and give people ship changing access from within sector space, who's going to ever visit the shipyard anymore? It'll be at a loss. The flip side to this is the other addition in which loadouts can be saved. I think this is a brilliant idea, though am interested in how it'll work exactly.
I think the changing ships on the go is fairly believable when you think about it, I mean many times we've seen ships dock with other ships on the go to transfer crew and gear so it's a perfectly logical think, if anything with transporter tech it's even more fair that people should be able to request a ship is brought to them and gear and crew is beamed between the two and the crew that brought the new ship out could take the old ship home.
You were able to do this already with certain ships. The only people that should be kinda of upset by this are the owners of these ships as this is kinda of a nerf to them but really with all the things said ships offer anyway, doubt they care.
So this ability was already in the game and being used. It's now going to everyone, seems alright to me.
I own a Tuffli, I got it shortly after they came out. It WAS a unique ship in the game by having Crafting as well as the ship selector. Then the Cell Ship was released and what made the Tuffli Unique was Given to the Cell. Now the ship selector is going to everyone, this is I think a good idea. (Even though I hate to admit it!) Now the only reasons to own a Tuffli or a Cell is the Crafting, Full interrior on a Tuffli or the Tua Dewa Doff mission on a Cell. neither of which is really worth it. Maybe the Bank and Mail access is, MAYBE. At This point Im Glad I sold my Cell ship when I got it.
keybinds to make multiple powers work off 1 stroke, and autofire ground weapons. I have to say, the quality of the players in some games just plain sucks.
This is already in the game all you need to do is set a Macro for it. Me Im not that smart but its there!
Quick Loadout for ships save and load Is something that has been needed for a long time! However if this does not come in with a skill tray save load function Then whats the point. 2 seconds to change and load a ship and 10 minutes or so to reset your skill trays is no different than what we have now.
In the end Im on the fence right now. Ill wait and make my final judgement when it goes live.
That ain't necessarily a bad thing, but social zones are already taking a hit because people don't venture to them, and some sectors have taken a hit because people can just transwarp everywhere.
So what? Is it your position that forcing people into social zones is a good thing? Am I supposed to miss party popper/disco ball spam and adorable little racist ****bags trolling each other in zone chat? If that's your thing, more power to you, but you can do it without forcing my involvement.
So what? Is it your position that forcing people into social zones is a good thing? Am I supposed to miss party popper/disco ball spam and adorable little racist ****bags trolling each other in zone chat? If that's your thing, more power to you, but you can do it without forcing my involvement.
My point is you're not fully experiencing the game if you get everything handed to you on a plate.
Whilst you're at it, a chill pill might not go amiss.
In the old times, the Pony Express had stations along the route to change horses, so the tired ones could rest and the Pony rider could get a fresh horse, this is kind of the same thing but in a space kind of way
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You sort of can. Or at least from your shuttlecraft, you can switch from ship/shuttle/last big ship you had out. So although not your full roster, you can at least switch easy between a pvp ship and a pve ship, provided you remember to ready them both before you leave a starbase.
Personally, this makes no difference to me. As I like to rp, I'll probably still make my way to the fleet starbase to switch, but it's good news for those that dont. Or if I want to just quickly switch for a quick messing about, it's handy for that.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
I find your sarcastic comment on the OP's opinion rather hillarious after seeing your avatar pic. :rolleyes:
So the new system just avoids loads of clicks but doesnt hurt rpg. If you want to restrict yourself from using this stuff an where else other than esd be my guest. But trying to force other players to do the same is plain arrogance. I have to put up with all the kiddies running around with their weapons on their backs and badly designed uniforms and ships so if i can pit up with all that you guys can out up with faster changing between ships. Noone forces you to use it in any way you dont want.
If they solved the problem that resulted in the geometric increase of processing power to handle zone transitions so they can facilitate an increase in the ship count, that would be great news.
You know what?! You don't want to change your ships in space? Then don't. Go to ESD, and change it there; see if I care.
And like the person above said, we'll take your ability to change uniforms away too! Unless you're at a tailor; cuz changing it right-smack in the shipyard, OMG, that totally breaks immersion! /sarcasm
This is a game, for crying out-loud. Some things are meant to look realistic, others are just a convenient game-mechanic.
I'm an old-time gamer. For about a decade I immediately dismissed and was aggrivated by anyone using two letter abbreviations and 133+ speak in their chat on what was supposed to be RP Servers. Ah the 2000s, we'll never get you back...:rolleyes:
Since then I've become a podcaster, a blog writer, a novice game designer, a liason officer for a Mechwarrior Online unit, a husband, and a homeowner. My time that I can devote to playing an online game has diminished considerably, but I want to play the game. STO is near and dear to my heart. I'm a long time Trekker and I keep coming back to this game. My family name is in the game, after all. I have to keep coming back. (Next time you're in the Maiewski system, say 'hi' to my grandma...)
To that end, much like I've had to give up some of my hard-line stances on play-time (I used to do 4-5 hours a night, regularly) and communication etiquette (It's "YOU ARE", not "UR"!), I've also come to realize that I am no longer the target audience. Or at least, my old playstyle is not the current mainstream norm. But this is okay, because I don't have that kind of time anymore. I want to log in and get playing, and anything that slows that down or cuts into my play time really limits my fun. Yes, it's cool to see my ship cruising through sector space, and pan the camera around to see how it looks, but I want to get to where I'm going to get PLAYING. If I suddenly need to change ships, I can't afford to lose 25%, 15%, or even 10% of my play-time to logistics of going to ESD or DS9 if I want to change it. I already lose a chunk of time moving gear from one ship to the other. On a weekend where I have hours, that's fine, but if I've got an hour on a Tuesday, I want to play a mission, not shuffle ship components and ships.
To your points:
1: The game is already unbelievable; we have so many Bridge Officers of other factions, and we can't even change their uniforms. I get that 7 of 9 and T'Pol didn't wear a starfleet uniform, but that's one character of the "bridge crew". Everyone else on their series were in Starfleet attire. If we have to use our Breen, and Liberated Borg, and Reman bridge officers, then they should let us decide who's in a Starfleet Uniform and who isn't.
We've got Federation starships using non-phasers. Constellation and NX-1 class stips flying around with the latest Cruisers. Romulan Republic captains being assigned Federation starships (are the Feds selling them their surplus ships? When did the Defiant and the Enterprise-F become "surplus"?).
And all these points I mention are ones that the player makes, or doesn't. You don't have to use the Breen/Reman BOffs, or use anything but Phasers on your USS Whatchamacallit. Other players can, it's their choice that only affects you peripherally.
The game is already unbelievable. This really doesn't have to affect your style of gameplay at all.
2: True, it coddles the Lazy. It also helps out those of us who only have an hour a night to play get into the action, instead of losing ten minutes to fly to the nearest starbase and make the ship change. That's an extra fleet action I'm not playing because of that. The lazy players just get a benefit too, and again this doesn't have to affect your gameplay at all. Those players who crowded into the Shipyard on ESD to talk about their "schwedy balls" or blather about the lates pop-culture diva's big breakdown might not be there now.
That, OP, is a bonus.
3: This would be true if this was an RPG. It isn't, or at least it's not anymore. There are RPG fleets, and Role Players, but for the most part the game is now about building the most bad-TRIBBLE starship and kicking tail with it. And talking to your friends/fellow players. All in a Star Trek skin. This game is about the single player now; there's not much I can do in a pre-made group that I can't do solo or with PUGs.
Forcing people to go someplace to do something isn't making a place "useful", it's making it "a chore". Give people a reason to want to go to a location; that's how you make it useful. Having there be only one ATM in one Mall in a city doesn't make the mall useful, it just makes traffic to that mall unneccesarily heavy and TRIBBLE people off that they have to go to this one location if they want cash. Have quests and games and reasons to stick around and hang out at that mall, and then put ATMs elsewhere so your mall isn't crowded with pissed off folks who need cash.
Sad fact (in my opinion) is that STO isn't about "playing Star Trek" anymore. It's an MMO with a Star Trek skin, with brief moments of feeling like you're in the show. The devs have done some really cool stories, and so have the Foundry authors, but I hardly play them because I'm too busy doing my Dailies to save up Dilithium and Rep Marks for MK XII gear, because I can do 3-6 dailies in an hour to net me more currency than one or two actual storyline/Foundry missions.
I'm sad to see it go that way, becuase I miss the immersion, the feeling like I'm in Star Trek, not just playing it.
So to wrap it up; sorry Chief, our game is already gone. All we can do now is enjoy the scenery and the memories as long as we can.
Currently cruising the Pi Canis Sector Block...
Because the way it has been so far has served only to discourage me from changing ships based on which might be more effective for any given mission.
And as for changing ships wherever, I can go to my bridge and change from my current vessel to my SCS, leave the bridge and be on the SCS, go to that bridge and change to any ship in my squadron, leave the bridge and be on the newly-selected ship. In other words, it's already possible, but with unnecessary extra steps, and if someone thinks that the unnecessary extra steps somehow promote "realism" (yeah, I read that thread, too), then I say smite him with a wet noodle, because he's a killjoy.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but this last part throws me a little. You miss playing immersive stories, but then choose not to play them so you can grind dailies for loot? Isn't that a choice too? I depends on what you want most out of the game. For me, immersive content outweights the gear grind.
I tried grinding dailies for a bit and got bored with it and went back to playing the mission content and Foundry. Since I don't PvP or raid, I'm not worried about having the best gear. Any game I play is for fun, not work. If it starts feeling like a job, it's no longer worth playing. Will it take me longer to get MK XII gear? Sure, but that's not a priority for me.
Do I still do dailies? On occasion, but just to add mission variety. I treat them mostly like any other mission, except that I will do them more than once on a given character over time. The same is true for the rep missions. I did the New Romulus grind on one character; I'll never do so again. I will play New Romulus missions, again to add variety, but I will not grind to get the rep. If it comes over time, great. But maxing rep will not be a goal, just a side effect of gameplay.
Good question! And yes, it is my choice. It's all about focus; my focus right now is that I'm jealous of all these folks with their Tier 5 Omega rep and all the borg gear they have for their ships. I can "just fly my ship" like the next guy, but there comes a point where my own need to have a build that isn't horribly inneficient kicks in.
I'm also lamenting the fact that because of my life I no longer have the time to play as much as I want to, so I have to choose what is most imortant to me at that time. Sometimes I do want the immersion of the story. Sometimes I want that bad TRIBBLE borg deflector dish...
Currently cruising the Pi Canis Sector Block...
You want immersion, best do it yourself. Want REAL RP. Well take off the RA pips, sell ALL but one ship, load it up with faction specific weapons. So fed phasers only though you can have quantum torps. No maco or any other gear like that. Probably be ok with AGEIS set for engines and the like, but 1 ship, you are a captain, and you can have a shuttle or two.
1 setup. That's it. BOFFS, nobody but fed personnel only same with DOFFS.
OK you now have your immersion, go play. Sound like fun?
No not really.
Want immersion that's up to the PLAYER, not the game company.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Actually, it kinda does sound like fun...
But I agree with you; the way the game has grown that is totally for the player to decide, not PWE.
Currently cruising the Pi Canis Sector Block...
This, so many times.
I mean... Roleplaying is supposed to be an exercise in imagination and self control. Table top games have no mechanisms to stop you from breaking character, or running a campaign like a game of Diablo. They give you a setting, encourage you to immerse yourself in that setting and set aside your own personality, and then give you infinite reason not to except for the fact that you might as well just break out a Monopoly board if you're going to play like that.
There is no reason for guardrails around your RP unless you don't actually want to RP but for some reason want to be forced to.
Actaully, I think it's more apt to say that trying to immerse yourself in STO (or any MMO these days) is like trying to role play in the mall food court (here I am back at the mall...)
You can do it, and the people at your table might be into it, but all around you are people talking about real life, rushing around doing their own things at their own volume, or in some cases making fun of your for role playing. All of which are going to break your immersion. So you have to go to a corner of the food court (less populated zone) or do what you should have done in the first place and play at home (instanced/invite-only zone).
Again, totally agree that it's up to the player to RP, in spite of the weird glances from passer-bys on their phones or the jerks at the next table over making fun of you for it and throwing fries at your minis.
It is not PWE's job to force the playerbase into immersion. Immersion is up to the player. It is up to PWE to decide what they're going to provide to the player base that's going to allow PWE to pay their employees.
Currently cruising the Pi Canis Sector Block...
Time is greatly compressed in this game. As someone mentioned earlier you can cross the Federation in 10 minutes or so. That being said, all the actions you described should be compressed, too. There should be a cooldown on ship changing to accommodate this, like there is on slipstream.
I know you're right, that our game is gone, but I can never give up the good fight!! Complacency is a slow death.
How is it hurting me? Good question. The answer is it's not hurting me, but it's hurting the game. How? By dumbing down the game.
The STF location of DS9 is now useless as you can get Omega gear anywhere. This greatly diminished the need to go to DS9, one of the most iconic locations in this game. This could be rectified if you had to go to a collection point to pick up the gear you obtain from reputations, or have it delivered by the Tuffli, Cell ship or Azura.
The ability to transwarp to ANY mission location by paying EC. Completely renders any space between you and the mission useless.
Now we'll have the ability to change ships on the fly.
These instant gratifications are only going to continue due to peoples' innate tendency to want moar things now. The responsible thing is to resist these dumbing down features, even though they may sound cool and easy. I myself can see how convenient it will be to be able to change ships but I oppose the idea because my convenience shouldn't contribute to this game being dumbed down.
By reducing the requirements to actually go places or travel through places to get to your destination this game is actually getting smaller.
So convienience "dumbs the game down", and an elite, sophisticated player should recognize the "smartness" of forcing people to cross sector space the long way?
No, that's just your self-important little role-player opinion, and you do not define these terms for the rest of us. Some people see no benefit to wading through sectors and multiple loading screens to get to their destinations. If you disagree, you are perfectly free to do it the hard way. Punish yourself if you want, but don't expect the rest of us to play along.
I am an instant gratification sold out. Gimme more baby!!!:D
Let's face it, the main content of this game is just not that good. The artwork is excellent, but the missions are one-dimensional and asking me to run them repeatedly to earn enough currency to buy items is just frustrating. Why do I have to grind? Why must I do STF's over and over each day instead of just having a new adventure every day? Grinding the PvE queue gets boring ultra fast. There needs to be a way to play new content every day without having to grind the same handful of missions ad nauseum. Somehow there needs to be a "foundry" for STF missions, something that let's people create multiplayer user-generated content. Cryptic should just make a "box'o'legos", so to speak, for the foundry so it can be used to remix it into new missions with new art assets. It would also be great if you could play foundry missions to level up your character instead of being tied to episode missions, which would let you have a self-directed narrative for every character you play. Every character would get its own custom story through playing Foundry missions, build their own exclusive narrative and background. Maybe even include an "achievement" system for the Foundry that grants awards for exceptional performance (e.g. Repelling attackers without any civilian casualties while playing elite difficulty) to further enhance the uniqueness of one's personal story.
So I say TRIBBLE the idea that people should work for the "good" stuff and, instead, make game content people will not want to skip because it's just too good to skip. Then, keep that ball rolling so there's always something new to draw people in. The Foundry has the potential to provide this game with nearly limitless replay value and yet it's tucked away in a dark corner instead of being brought front and center so everyone can see it.
I would respectfully disagree abpout the "fun" bit, this is how my 4 alts are all set up... themed around a single race with appropriate gear (Omega / Fleet does well here, I'd argue that MACO / Honor Guard is native Fed / Klingon tech). Well the Klingons each have a single Romulan "tactical advisor" and that's it. And those builds do OK in casual PVP and ESTFs. It means compromising in some areas but I think my lack of skill is more of an issue.
Point is, though, you're right - the ability to instantly swap ships in sector space should not really a gamebreaker even for purists. I'll be interested to see how the mechanisms work, and whether things like hotkeys, tray layouts, and unique gear can be swapped. If I only have one Elite fleet shield - do I still need to go to a starbase to manually move it between ships?
Anyway, in a couple of places, this actually supports RP. Switching from a Vo'quv to a fleet B'rel, for example, or a Bortas'qu to a Hoh'sus, is thematically appropriate even for a diehard RP purist. All this change does is reduce the time spent conducting the in-game equivalent of rearranging your stamp collection.
Personally, I suspect that you'll need enough gear to equip all the "online" ships, and that's why Cryptic will do it - so that players have the incentive to grind / pay for multiple high-end gear sets.
Amen brother, that is my goal, my Romulan to have everything Romulan in my ship, the same with my Klingon and my human Federation, hopefully I can do that in the future for my other characters.
If you don't like the fact that you can switch in sector space, no one is forcing you to use it. It's not instant gratification, it's a convince.
I mean, let's say I'm in a ship equipped to deal with Voth, and a fleet-mate asks if I want to team up for an STF, it saves me time to quickly switch to my STF build ship right then and there then having to zip off through 2 or 3 load screens just for changing to a ship I will be in for 10 minutes, and will switch out of when the mission is over. I'm currently breaking in a Defiant Retro-fit I got with my 600 day token, but might need my Mobius time ship for crowd control duty in an "infected" because it can freeze time.
Everyone seems to have an idea in their heads as to what this game should be. Problem is most of them have no say in the matter. The devs have the right to change the game as they see fit, except unless CBS intervenes. So unless CBS says "You can't let them change in sector space," you're up a creek without a paddle.
But, like it has been said; Breaks your immersion? DON'T USE IT!
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
Indee 2 thumbs up to you, if like you said you don't like something do not use it.
If they go ahead and give people ship changing access from within sector space, who's going to ever visit the shipyard anymore? It'll be at a loss. The flip side to this is the other addition in which loadouts can be saved. I think this is a brilliant idea, though am interested in how it'll work exactly.
Makes perfect sense.
I own a Tuffli, I got it shortly after they came out. It WAS a unique ship in the game by having Crafting as well as the ship selector. Then the Cell Ship was released and what made the Tuffli Unique was Given to the Cell. Now the ship selector is going to everyone, this is I think a good idea. (Even though I hate to admit it!) Now the only reasons to own a Tuffli or a Cell is the Crafting, Full interrior on a Tuffli or the Tua Dewa Doff mission on a Cell. neither of which is really worth it. Maybe the Bank and Mail access is, MAYBE. At This point Im Glad I sold my Cell ship when I got it.
This is already in the game all you need to do is set a Macro for it. Me Im not that smart but its there!
Quick Loadout for ships save and load Is something that has been needed for a long time! However if this does not come in with a skill tray save load function Then whats the point. 2 seconds to change and load a ship and 10 minutes or so to reset your skill trays is no different than what we have now.
In the end Im on the fence right now. Ill wait and make my final judgement when it goes live.
Fleet leader Nova Elite
Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
@ren_larreck
So what? Is it your position that forcing people into social zones is a good thing? Am I supposed to miss party popper/disco ball spam and adorable little racist ****bags trolling each other in zone chat? If that's your thing, more power to you, but you can do it without forcing my involvement.
Whilst you're at it, a chill pill might not go amiss.
busy social hubs also reflect well on the games and removing reasons to use them will obviously have even a minor negative impact.