Intersting topic and you've hit on the main problems.
Personally I really do want the ability to change ship away from SB, but ONLY if it also comes with the ability to save and hot swap boff and skill tray layouts as well, other wise its pointless. In fact its this that stops me changing ships at SB more than once every couple of months - and i guess this is realistic, a starfleet ranking would move from ship to ship every few months or years, and the captain will have to manage his crew as part of his new position.
As you say this will mean that other maps are less frequented. For me how busy ESD or DS9 is isn't a concern, in fact some of the console access points KDF side are so small I prefer quieter times so I don't get knocked out of the way by other players.
What is a concern is that I paid big money (well, small money compared to what they are worth now) for a tufli just over a year ago. I set it as a target, and had fun working up the ec to achieve this - I don't want its value 'lessening'. I am still depressed over the only other things i paid over 30m each for or spent hours crafting (mk xii tac consoles) having recently been reduced in value from the best thing in my inventory to vendor TRIBBLE.
So I guess what I'm saying is, keep the limit about where you can swap ships, just make it easier to swap layouts when you do head to the starbase to change ships.
If someone wants "immersion", they should be lobbying for:
Each player is limited to one, and only one, character slot.
Each character is limited to one, and only one, starship slot, and the game will assign the ship to fill that slot.
A character may not sell any item on the Exchange. The Exchange must be eliminated from the game.
A player may not choose Boffs or Doffs. Those will be assigned to the character by the game.
A player may not choose Fed/KDF/Rom. The game will assign a specific faction to each player account.
A player may not choose species or traits. The game will assign a species, gender, profession and traits to the player account. Any character created on that account must always be of the same species, gender, profession and traits.
Anything less than this is "immersion" breaking. Anyone whining about anything in the game that breaks their "immersion" without lobbying for these corrections does not know what "immersion" is and should immediately cease and desist all whining.
STO is a game. I really can't summon any sympathy for a participant who can not grasp that concept.
My point is you're not fully experiencing the game if you get everything handed to you on a plate.
Whilst you're at it, a chill pill might not go amiss.
According to whom? If people aren't playing the content, perhaps it's because the content isn't that compelling. The episode missions aren't very good, the STF's are painfully repetitive, PvP is barely on the radar, and the foundry isn't utilized to its full potential. It's not that people want everything handed to them on a plate, it's that the stuff they're skipping is outweighed by the appeal of getting elite gear. This game is all about the "phat lootz". If you're making a Star Trek game, that's a problem, because it supposed to be about adventure, but the adventure part is not up to par.
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
Sad fact (in my opinion) is that STO isn't about "playing Star Trek" anymore.
That right here is signature worthy material.
So sad, so depressing and so true.
I too long for the times of the old MMOs, where things had more depth and were more challenging, realistic and immersive to play, even though the graphics were stone age compared to what we have now.
Hopefully a couple of titles waiting to be released in the near future will bring at least a part of this back as they promised.
So convienience "dumbs the game down", and an elite, sophisticated player should recognize the "smartness" of forcing people to cross sector space the long way?
No, that's just your self-important little role-player opinion, and you do not define these terms for the rest of us. Some people see no benefit to wading through sectors and multiple loading screens to get to their destinations. If you disagree, you are perfectly free to do it the hard way. Punish yourself if you want, but don't expect the rest of us to play along.
I don't think you understood the OP's point completely.
Observed from today, I agree with you - space is nothing more than a waste of time in STO now. But I remember when space used to be big in this game, when travel times and objectives made you stick around a certain social hub in a sector giving it value, when you could experience random attacks from KDF NPCs during your sector space travel.
What happened? People whined as they whine about everything in this game and Cryptic turned those into red-dots. So instead adding more depth, point, missions and general stuff to sector space, it turned on the dumbified road by first removing these encounters, than adding transwarp, then making transwarp cheap, then adding transwarp to everywhere and finally making engines go at WARP 54 so you can circumnavigate the cosmos (aka the entire game map) in less than 10 minutes.
And where has that brought us today? In a Star Trek game where space is actually completely useless and a waste of time. (my God just how dumb this sounds when you say it loud) There were recently threads started by players who request for open space to be completely removed from game. In a Star Trek game. See how far it can go?
That is the nature of the beast and I think that was the observation the OP was trying to make, which is valid IMHO. While the ship swapping in sector space on a moment's notice is nothing really gamebreaking or completely immersion breaking (as if there is any left in this game), it's yet another unnecessary step in dumbification of the game whose repercussions we'll actually see in the future. Note I'm not talking about saving the ship presets, that was something we really did need.
Ah, I just posted a long reply in the 'Swap ships anywhere' thread saying it was THIS that I really wanted above that.... should maybe have done a little more research.
But yes, yes and yes again to this. I usually spend real cash when Cryptic make a change I've been longing for - the doff increase to 500 got them 20 euros, reckon this is another 20 euro-er if done properly, 10 or 5 if they mess it up... now 'clothing optional' mode would get them 50, no question about it!
If someone wants "immersion", they should be lobbying for:
Each player is limited to one, and only one, character slot.
Each character is limited to one, and only one, starship slot, and the game will assign the ship to fill that slot.
A character may not sell any item on the Exchange. The Exchange must be eliminated from the game.
A player may not choose Boffs or Doffs. Those will be assigned to the character by the game.
A player may not choose Fed/KDF/Rom. The game will assign a specific faction to each player account.
A player may not choose species or traits. The game will assign a species, gender, profession and traits to the player account. Any character created on that account must always be of the same species, gender, profession and traits.
Anything less than this is "immersion" breaking. Anyone whining about anything in the game that breaks their "immersion" without lobbying for these corrections does not know what "immersion" is and should immediately cease and desist all whining.
STO is a game. I really can't summon any sympathy for a participant who can not grasp that concept.
not sure you can call immersion not being able to choose your faction or which species you are.
also from what we gather from watching star trek each captain picks their crew. or at least their senior bridge officers.
if the game decided them things that would actually be a massive lack of immersion.
And where has that brought us today? In a Star Trek game where space is actually completely useless and a waste of time. (my God just how dumb this sounds when you say it loud) There were recently threads started by players who request for open space to be completely removed from game. In a Star Trek game. See how far it can go?
That is the nature of the beast and I think that was the observation the OP was trying to make, which is valid IMHO. While the ship swapping in sector space on a moment's notice is nothing really gamebreaking or completely immersion breaking (as if there is any left in this game), it's yet another unnecessary step in dumbification of the game whose repercussions we'll actually see in the future. Note I'm not talking about saving the ship presets, that was something we really did need.
Just my personal 2$.
Death by a thousand cuts, you mean? I can kind of get that. This option will encourage players to have multiple highly-specialist ships rather than a single "jack of all trades". I guess the PVP community will like that.
Shipyards, I think, will not be so badly off. They will lose precisely one function, if I'm reading this right - they will still have utility to buy consumables, repair and tailor ships.
Anything less than this is "immersion" breaking. Anyone whining about anything in the game that breaks their "immersion" without lobbying for these corrections does not know what "immersion" is and should immediately cease and desist all whining.
STO is a game. I really can't summon any sympathy for a participant who can not grasp that concept.
True enough. However, it would still be nice if RP and PVP / Elite PVE were not quite such polar opposites - other games manage it.
I'm in favour of ship swapping and gear/boff/doff presets. I have no desire to be forced or pressured into saying by social hubs if I don't want to. Honestly I only very rarely use any of my other ships because its too much aggrevation to switch. The only one I switch to normally is my Toron Shuttle and even then not that often because its a pain to switch my gear over to it. This will improve game by alot.
As for social hubs the Enterprise didn't return to ESD daily. And what it comes down to is don't want people forcing me to play thier way in the name of gritty realism. I have enough gritty realism in my life, I play for a fun escape from gritty realism of my crappy life.
And if you want me to go to social hubs more often make them more interesting and more compelling and more profitable. Otherwise I go where I please.
So in summary stop trying to force people to play your way. Don't like it don't use it.
I think they are complaining about being able to swap ships almost everywhere, not about being able to save the layout. At least that's how much I got from it.
As one of those complainers, precisely this.
Saving ship layouts is an excellent idea.
The ability to swap ships anywhere, at any time.....I'm less comfortable with that.
I have no problem with the compromise proposal though.
Swap ships in any sector, in which you have a friendly starbase. Otherwise, you're out of range.
It's another dumbing down of the game, which has happened plenty over the last few years. I agree with the ops opinions.
This has been posited as a decision that takes a side between canon and game.
However, I think TDBB is touching on an important point.
The thing about games is that they have to contain within them challenges.
The alternative is farmville.
Games, by their nature, model either a reality or a suggested reality.
This means they contain wthin them unavoidable limitations that are a direct consequence of the logic of that reality.
I've suggested a compromise earlier on in the thread, where the mechanism is implemented but you can only swap ships in sectors with a friendly starbase.
This way, the mechanism becomes available to players without breaking the fundamental logic of the universe which this game seeks to model.
However, when game rules are changed for convenience sake, without regard to the fundamental rules of the IP, then things start to go wrong.
Observed from today, I agree with you - space is nothing more than a waste of time in STO now. But I remember when space used to be big in this game, when travel times and objectives made you stick around a certain social hub in a sector giving it value, when you could experience random attacks from KDF NPCs during your sector space travel.
What happened? People whined as they whine about everything in this game and Cryptic turned those into red-dots. So instead adding more depth, point, missions and general stuff to sector space, it turned on the dumbified road by first removing these encounters, than adding transwarp, then making transwarp cheap, then adding transwarp to everywhere and finally making engines go at WARP 54 so you can circumnavigate the cosmos (aka the entire game map) in less than 10 minutes.
And where has that brought us today? In a Star Trek game where space is actually completely useless and a waste of time. (my God just how dumb this sounds when you say it loud) There were recently threads started by players who request for open space to be completely removed from game. In a Star Trek game. See how far it can go?
That is the nature of the beast and I think that was the observation the OP was trying to make, which is valid IMHO. While the ship swapping in sector space on a moment's notice is nothing really gamebreaking or completely immersion breaking (as if there is any left in this game), it's yet another unnecessary step in dumbification of the game whose repercussions we'll actually see in the future. Note I'm not talking about saving the ship presets, that was something we really did need.
Death by a thousand cuts, you mean? I can kind of get that. This option will encourage players to have multiple highly-specialist ships rather than a single "jack of all trades". I guess the PVP community will like that.
Shipyards, I think, will not be so badly off. They will lose precisely one function, if I'm reading this right - they will still have utility to buy consumables, repair and tailor ships.
Every time you make a feature generic you're taking away from that feature's original location or process. Death by a thousand cuts so accurately describes this. DS9 and sector space are prime examples of this. The ability to change ships in sector space is another cut. Tiny, yes, but enough to draw a little bit more of the game's life blood. These cuts really need to stop.
Following the death by a thousand cuts train of thought, this isn't the first cut and only a fool would think it's going to be the last. That being said, what's next? What is the next feature that's going to be "streamlined" (read: dumbed down) for the convenience of the player base? As shpok commented on, will space be removed because people want it gone? Is the 5-10 minutes it takes to traverse is such a terrible and painful ordeal?
Remember what Kirk and Picard said during the credits of their respective show? Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages... Trek is about space. It's about heading in to the great unknown. Sure, in order to make a game you have to throw in healthy servings of combat, but Trek needs space, not the removal of it!!
People say that you can't stay 100% true to an IP for the purposes of making a game. As sad as it is, it's true. That being said, every effort to stay as true to the IP must be made. Why? Games are being made all the time, a lot with better and newer features than STO has. Still for everything that those games are, they'll NEVER be Trek. This game needs to hold on to that for dear life otherwise it will get left by the wayside.
Cryptic, please stop making areas less useful for the sake of people whining that task X takes a few more minutes than they'd like it to. Keep this as Star Trek Online, not Generic Space Game Online.
So say you had an hour to play, and were in a ship that wasn't set up for the content you desired to partake in. You would rather spend 10-15 minutes of your 1 hour to get set up properly and non immersion breaking to play 45 minutes? You'd rather spend a 6th or a 4th of your playing time doing menial tasks which to me at least just makes me wanna go do something else?
In that case I agree with the poster who suggested that you should have it how it really would be, unmothballing ships, remothballing ships, and shakedown cruises. Also since you would personally have to oversee this as a Admiral or whatever you consider yourself, have fun spending 4-6 weeks changing ships. Since immersion is so critically vital, this is real time spent, time offline doesn't count.
Now which would you prefer 4-6 week real time consuming of preparing a new ship, or 2-3 minutes hotswapping in sector space?
I've been thinking more about the suggested proposal and what it would feel like.
Swapping ships is a clear QoL issue for many, and there are canon sources for ship transfers.
However, in canon, these occur in friendly or supported space.
So, if the mechanism is implemented, but restricted to such space, what difference would it make?
Well, not a huge amount of systems are effected by it.
Our core systems, Beta Ursae, Eta Eridani, and others have either faction bases or starbases that are cross faction.
There actually aren't that many places where you cant find either.
Indeed, those places tend to be somewhat less populated anyway.
So, the change wouldn't actually effect a very large proportion of those wanting to take advantage of the mechanism.
Only those travelling to the further flung reaches of the map would be effected.
Over time, it would also give a sense of 'home' systems or sectors. Places where yu can count on your factions support.
As well as a sense of 'away' sectors. Places where, basically, you're on your own.
As we head towards what some have called the Voyager season, a season based on the idea that when you're 'away' you're stuck with the ship you have, it seems exceedingly odd that we'd be getting a game mechanism that clashes so strongly with that very subsection of the IP.
So say you had an hour to play, and were in a ship that wasn't set up for the content you desired to partake in. You would rather spend 10-15 minutes of your 1 hour to get set up properly and non immersion breaking to play 45 minutes? You'd rather spend a 6th or a 4th of your playing time doing menial tasks which to me at least just makes me wanna go do something else?
Thing is, where do we draw the line.
Obviously, if you only have 60 minutes to play, sticking things up on the exchange is time consuming. Why not just remove the exchange and have a button on the minimap that lets you instantly sell everything in your inventory?
If you only have 60 minutes to play and more than one toon, resetting all those DOFF missions is time consuming. Why not just have one list of DOFFS for all your toons, one and done?
If you only have 60 minutes to play, then running more than 2 or 3 missions can take too long. Those reputation projects dont fill themselves. Why not just let us buy tier 5 rep from cryptic with zen?
While there's always going to be a tension between gaming QoL and what the game IP supports, there has to be a line. In both directions.
No IP mechanism can be allowed to break gameplay.
No QoL mechanism should utterly ignore the IP.
There is a compromise solution on the table.
It means if you''re really stuck for time, then have at the ship swapping provided you dont want to go too far from home. However, if you're set on going where no-one has gone before, then bring a packed lunch. This will take some time.
I already have a Cell ship, so changing ships anywhere is not an issue for one of my toons. So why should players not fortunate (lucky) enough, be denied this privilege. As far as Immersion, this game has trans-warp galore and a Dyson Sphere that in reality would never be fully explored in multiple lifetimes. Just RP it like all the content. I am sure many players like to switch boats quickly to play different content.
I just felt the "Other side" should get a thread. Disclaimer, in NO way am I saying other opinions are not valid. Happy Trekking!!
Quite the opposite. Ship transfers are even more likely to occur during times of conflict in hostile territory as ships are on vital patrols, missions, etc and the need to stay on their assigned task is far more important than returning to port every time personnel need to switch ships. Personnel get sent to the ships on assignment not the other way around.
Point taken, but I was thinking more of straight canon.
We've seen ship transfers a few times, usually a shuttle or occasionally someone transferring ship.
However, we have that big Voyager shaped bit of canon, where out of range of a starbase you don't get relieved. Period.
And imagine a KDF character with diplomatic immunity wants to change ships in Sirius.
FED: Attention IKS Wotsit, what is that battlecruiser doing in our space?
KDF: Naw, its cool, I'm an ambassador just changing ships. And those other 16 battlecruisers are just in case I fancy a change.
Some parts of the map should not allow ship swaps, simple as that.
What I like is consistency in games. if you are going to be accurate, and realistic, then stick to it. if you are going to be have fun and comfort over realism then stick to that.
for better or worse, this game pretty much has fun and comfort over reality. it makes no sense to switch ships in sector space, but to be honest i dont care at this stage because there are so many example of the game doing things that would just not happen in trek or real life that one more thing does not matter now.
im quite happy to get easy of use over reality and i think its a great thing that we can switch our ships easily to accommodate play style or mood. people can of course go to a starbase themselves if they want. nothing stops them doing it the long way if they want.
I wouldn't mind being able to quick-switch ships from any location within a major hub such as ESD, Bajor, Drozana, etc. But just outright switching in sector space? Convenient, but stupid.
i may just make another thread that reads "changing ships in spector space? undecided!" just to make a point to the mods. if you got something to write about it as a previous poster mentioned, theres a thread to do it in.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
i may just make another thread that reads "changing ships in spector space? undecided!" just to make a point to the mods. if you got something to write about it as a previous poster mentioned, theres a thread to do it in.
Changing ships in sector space: the Fourth Way!
Zen and the Art of changing ships in sector space.
Changing ships in sector space and how to influence people
And another example of someone that doesn't understand how day to day things operate in a military fleet that is underway. :rolleyes:
But we're not basing our thoughts on modern day military examples. We're basing our examples on Star Trek, the IP that Star Trek Online is based on. The IP that isn't militarily based.
To those complaining that this topic does not deserve its own thread: The other thread is about how being able to change ships in sector space is a bad idea. This thread, however, is about how being able to change ships in sector space is a good idea. Thus, they are radically different topics.
If not, then ALL threads about DPS should be combined into one, all threads about bridge officer powers should be combined into one, and so on and so on.
I personally think that allowing people to change ships in sector space is a good idea. There is absolutely nothing unrealistic about having a new ship fly to a location to pick up its captain.
Comments
Personally I really do want the ability to change ship away from SB, but ONLY if it also comes with the ability to save and hot swap boff and skill tray layouts as well, other wise its pointless. In fact its this that stops me changing ships at SB more than once every couple of months - and i guess this is realistic, a starfleet ranking would move from ship to ship every few months or years, and the captain will have to manage his crew as part of his new position.
As you say this will mean that other maps are less frequented. For me how busy ESD or DS9 is isn't a concern, in fact some of the console access points KDF side are so small I prefer quieter times so I don't get knocked out of the way by other players.
What is a concern is that I paid big money (well, small money compared to what they are worth now) for a tufli just over a year ago. I set it as a target, and had fun working up the ec to achieve this - I don't want its value 'lessening'. I am still depressed over the only other things i paid over 30m each for or spent hours crafting (mk xii tac consoles) having recently been reduced in value from the best thing in my inventory to vendor TRIBBLE.
So I guess what I'm saying is, keep the limit about where you can swap ships, just make it easier to swap layouts when you do head to the starbase to change ships.
Each player is limited to one, and only one, character slot.
Each character is limited to one, and only one, starship slot, and the game will assign the ship to fill that slot.
A character may not sell any item on the Exchange. The Exchange must be eliminated from the game.
A player may not choose Boffs or Doffs. Those will be assigned to the character by the game.
A player may not choose Fed/KDF/Rom. The game will assign a specific faction to each player account.
A player may not choose species or traits. The game will assign a species, gender, profession and traits to the player account. Any character created on that account must always be of the same species, gender, profession and traits.
Anything less than this is "immersion" breaking. Anyone whining about anything in the game that breaks their "immersion" without lobbying for these corrections does not know what "immersion" is and should immediately cease and desist all whining.
STO is a game. I really can't summon any sympathy for a participant who can not grasp that concept.
According to whom? If people aren't playing the content, perhaps it's because the content isn't that compelling. The episode missions aren't very good, the STF's are painfully repetitive, PvP is barely on the radar, and the foundry isn't utilized to its full potential. It's not that people want everything handed to them on a plate, it's that the stuff they're skipping is outweighed by the appeal of getting elite gear. This game is all about the "phat lootz". If you're making a Star Trek game, that's a problem, because it supposed to be about adventure, but the adventure part is not up to par.
That right here is signature worthy material.
So sad, so depressing and so true.
I too long for the times of the old MMOs, where things had more depth and were more challenging, realistic and immersive to play, even though the graphics were stone age compared to what we have now.
Hopefully a couple of titles waiting to be released in the near future will bring at least a part of this back as they promised.
I don't think you understood the OP's point completely.
Observed from today, I agree with you - space is nothing more than a waste of time in STO now. But I remember when space used to be big in this game, when travel times and objectives made you stick around a certain social hub in a sector giving it value, when you could experience random attacks from KDF NPCs during your sector space travel.
What happened? People whined as they whine about everything in this game and Cryptic turned those into red-dots. So instead adding more depth, point, missions and general stuff to sector space, it turned on the dumbified road by first removing these encounters, than adding transwarp, then making transwarp cheap, then adding transwarp to everywhere and finally making engines go at WARP 54 so you can circumnavigate the cosmos (aka the entire game map) in less than 10 minutes.
And where has that brought us today? In a Star Trek game where space is actually completely useless and a waste of time. (my God just how dumb this sounds when you say it loud) There were recently threads started by players who request for open space to be completely removed from game. In a Star Trek game. See how far it can go?
That is the nature of the beast and I think that was the observation the OP was trying to make, which is valid IMHO. While the ship swapping in sector space on a moment's notice is nothing really gamebreaking or completely immersion breaking (as if there is any left in this game), it's yet another unnecessary step in dumbification of the game whose repercussions we'll actually see in the future. Note I'm not talking about saving the ship presets, that was something we really did need.
Just my personal 2$.
But yes, yes and yes again to this. I usually spend real cash when Cryptic make a change I've been longing for - the doff increase to 500 got them 20 euros, reckon this is another 20 euro-er if done properly, 10 or 5 if they mess it up... now 'clothing optional' mode would get them 50, no question about it!
not sure you can call immersion not being able to choose your faction or which species you are.
also from what we gather from watching star trek each captain picks their crew. or at least their senior bridge officers.
if the game decided them things that would actually be a massive lack of immersion.
Death by a thousand cuts, you mean? I can kind of get that. This option will encourage players to have multiple highly-specialist ships rather than a single "jack of all trades". I guess the PVP community will like that.
Shipyards, I think, will not be so badly off. They will lose precisely one function, if I'm reading this right - they will still have utility to buy consumables, repair and tailor ships.
I kinda feel the same about people who make "straw man" type arguments. It depends on whether they miss a point or try to avoid the point.
True enough. However, it would still be nice if RP and PVP / Elite PVE were not quite such polar opposites - other games manage it.
As for social hubs the Enterprise didn't return to ESD daily. And what it comes down to is don't want people forcing me to play thier way in the name of gritty realism. I have enough gritty realism in my life, I play for a fun escape from gritty realism of my crappy life.
And if you want me to go to social hubs more often make them more interesting and more compelling and more profitable. Otherwise I go where I please.
So in summary stop trying to force people to play your way. Don't like it don't use it.
As one of those complainers, precisely this.
Saving ship layouts is an excellent idea.
The ability to swap ships anywhere, at any time.....I'm less comfortable with that.
I have no problem with the compromise proposal though.
Swap ships in any sector, in which you have a friendly starbase. Otherwise, you're out of range.
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This has been posited as a decision that takes a side between canon and game.
However, I think TDBB is touching on an important point.
The thing about games is that they have to contain within them challenges.
The alternative is farmville.
Games, by their nature, model either a reality or a suggested reality.
This means they contain wthin them unavoidable limitations that are a direct consequence of the logic of that reality.
I've suggested a compromise earlier on in the thread, where the mechanism is implemented but you can only swap ships in sectors with a friendly starbase.
This way, the mechanism becomes available to players without breaking the fundamental logic of the universe which this game seeks to model.
However, when game rules are changed for convenience sake, without regard to the fundamental rules of the IP, then things start to go wrong.
Every time you make a feature generic you're taking away from that feature's original location or process. Death by a thousand cuts so accurately describes this. DS9 and sector space are prime examples of this. The ability to change ships in sector space is another cut. Tiny, yes, but enough to draw a little bit more of the game's life blood. These cuts really need to stop.
Following the death by a thousand cuts train of thought, this isn't the first cut and only a fool would think it's going to be the last. That being said, what's next? What is the next feature that's going to be "streamlined" (read: dumbed down) for the convenience of the player base? As shpok commented on, will space be removed because people want it gone? Is the 5-10 minutes it takes to traverse is such a terrible and painful ordeal?
Remember what Kirk and Picard said during the credits of their respective show? Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages... Trek is about space. It's about heading in to the great unknown. Sure, in order to make a game you have to throw in healthy servings of combat, but Trek needs space, not the removal of it!!
People say that you can't stay 100% true to an IP for the purposes of making a game. As sad as it is, it's true. That being said, every effort to stay as true to the IP must be made. Why? Games are being made all the time, a lot with better and newer features than STO has. Still for everything that those games are, they'll NEVER be Trek. This game needs to hold on to that for dear life otherwise it will get left by the wayside.
Cryptic, please stop making areas less useful for the sake of people whining that task X takes a few more minutes than they'd like it to. Keep this as Star Trek Online, not Generic Space Game Online.
Just read this and would like to address it.
Very true. Then again, how often did they change ships...
In that case I agree with the poster who suggested that you should have it how it really would be, unmothballing ships, remothballing ships, and shakedown cruises. Also since you would personally have to oversee this as a Admiral or whatever you consider yourself, have fun spending 4-6 weeks changing ships. Since immersion is so critically vital, this is real time spent, time offline doesn't count.
Now which would you prefer 4-6 week real time consuming of preparing a new ship, or 2-3 minutes hotswapping in sector space?
Swapping ships is a clear QoL issue for many, and there are canon sources for ship transfers.
However, in canon, these occur in friendly or supported space.
So, if the mechanism is implemented, but restricted to such space, what difference would it make?
Well, not a huge amount of systems are effected by it.
Our core systems, Beta Ursae, Eta Eridani, and others have either faction bases or starbases that are cross faction.
There actually aren't that many places where you cant find either.
Indeed, those places tend to be somewhat less populated anyway.
So, the change wouldn't actually effect a very large proportion of those wanting to take advantage of the mechanism.
Only those travelling to the further flung reaches of the map would be effected.
Over time, it would also give a sense of 'home' systems or sectors. Places where yu can count on your factions support.
As well as a sense of 'away' sectors. Places where, basically, you're on your own.
As we head towards what some have called the Voyager season, a season based on the idea that when you're 'away' you're stuck with the ship you have, it seems exceedingly odd that we'd be getting a game mechanism that clashes so strongly with that very subsection of the IP.
Thing is, where do we draw the line.
Obviously, if you only have 60 minutes to play, sticking things up on the exchange is time consuming. Why not just remove the exchange and have a button on the minimap that lets you instantly sell everything in your inventory?
If you only have 60 minutes to play and more than one toon, resetting all those DOFF missions is time consuming. Why not just have one list of DOFFS for all your toons, one and done?
If you only have 60 minutes to play, then running more than 2 or 3 missions can take too long. Those reputation projects dont fill themselves. Why not just let us buy tier 5 rep from cryptic with zen?
While there's always going to be a tension between gaming QoL and what the game IP supports, there has to be a line. In both directions.
No IP mechanism can be allowed to break gameplay.
No QoL mechanism should utterly ignore the IP.
There is a compromise solution on the table.
It means if you''re really stuck for time, then have at the ship swapping provided you dont want to go too far from home. However, if you're set on going where no-one has gone before, then bring a packed lunch. This will take some time.
I just felt the "Other side" should get a thread. Disclaimer, in NO way am I saying other opinions are not valid. Happy Trekking!!
Point taken, but I was thinking more of straight canon.
We've seen ship transfers a few times, usually a shuttle or occasionally someone transferring ship.
However, we have that big Voyager shaped bit of canon, where out of range of a starbase you don't get relieved. Period.
And imagine a KDF character with diplomatic immunity wants to change ships in Sirius.
FED: Attention IKS Wotsit, what is that battlecruiser doing in our space?
KDF: Naw, its cool, I'm an ambassador just changing ships. And those other 16 battlecruisers are just in case I fancy a change.
Some parts of the map should not allow ship swaps, simple as that.
for better or worse, this game pretty much has fun and comfort over reality. it makes no sense to switch ships in sector space, but to be honest i dont care at this stage because there are so many example of the game doing things that would just not happen in trek or real life that one more thing does not matter now.
im quite happy to get easy of use over reality and i think its a great thing that we can switch our ships easily to accommodate play style or mood. people can of course go to a starbase themselves if they want. nothing stops them doing it the long way if they want.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Changing ships in sector space: the Fourth Way!
Zen and the Art of changing ships in sector space.
Changing ships in sector space and how to influence people
Changing Gorn in sector space.
Don't say your goodbyes too soon. You will still need to visit them to set up your builds -- more info in the Dev Blog next week.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
People will still whine though..
But we're not basing our thoughts on modern day military examples. We're basing our examples on Star Trek, the IP that Star Trek Online is based on. The IP that isn't militarily based.
If not, then ALL threads about DPS should be combined into one, all threads about bridge officer powers should be combined into one, and so on and so on.
I personally think that allowing people to change ships in sector space is a good idea. There is absolutely nothing unrealistic about having a new ship fly to a location to pick up its captain.
Two issues here Branflakes.
I dont think anyone has an issue with ship build swapping and setting up.
It's the actual ship swapping in sector space that is giving some of us pause.