he didnt mean control the market like that, he meant that people who have been here for the long haul are taking advantage of the people who haven't been here that long.
i.e : players who don't have alts/mules and who don't know what to make or how they make said items & what price to sell it at or where.
he's completely correct the exchange is rampant with inflation, its kind of sickening really we already have govs and banks taking advantage of people IRL its really sad to be done via a game. but it happens in most mmorpgs to be honest, swtor's GTN is a great example to compare as they are virtually the same in terms of stupid prices.
but overall, the price's in the exchange are just way to steep, these people make these consoles then overprice them, i even came across some tactical consoles that were costing more than ships on the exchange. its stupid, much like AP turrets sure they are VR's but mk I's going for 1.6 mil is just dumb especially when they're only selling at that much for 3 reasons which are not even decent reasons : Endgame weaponry & 360 arc ... lets not forget taking advantage of not so smart impulse buyers as well.
not everyone has millions of credits and not all of us have time to make that much.
Try making some mk xii purple tac consoles yourself then tell us they are overpriced. And for the people that dont have millions of credits nor have the time to get that much, get mk xi blue, its not like theres any difference in performance
You DOFF crafting exchange monopolists have only yourselves to thank for how inevitably popular these fleet asset consoles are going to be. You caused the market demand for affordable endgame TAC consoles with your ridiculously inflated exchange prices. I don't care what it's worth to you, for my money, 30-50k EC is not worth it for a 1.9% increase in damage type XYZ.
It takes a fleet's combined resources to level to and provision the availability of these new tac consoles to be available to a fleet, then it takes even more personal player resources to actually obtain these consoles one by one. Double dilithium dipping all the way.
Then there is the issue of time gates between projects, availability of said projects to use fleet marks on.(this is an issue in my fleet) and the necessary grinding times for resources.
In the end, the effort and time needed = Hardly cheap if you ask me. Even for big fleets, SOMEONE has to do the work and the time.
Why is this effort considered to be of any less value then the effort it takes to currently craft the classic ones? This I don't understand at all.
But too those who worry that their current crafted consoles will loose too much value:
Just look at it this way, there should still be PLENTY of demand for the old classic tac consoles. There are still a few small fleets, or fleet-less players out there.
Not to mention, some will always take the quick and easy way out and just buy a bunch of keys and sell em to buy readily available consoles.
Why is this effort considered to be of any less value then the effort it takes to currently craft the classic ones? This I don't understand at all.
No mystery here. It's a self-serving distortion of the concept of "value," due to some DOFF crafters getting so used to those profits that they now (FALSELY) feel entitled to them.
It's like a store owner pleading with the city council to block the construction of a competing establishment. No, all of those profits are NOT your god-given right for life, and you are NOT owed a perpetual monopoly over endgame TAC consoles because of the collossal accomplishment of clicking on a few DOFF missions. Deal with it.
No mystery here. It's a self-serving distortion of the concept of "value," due to some DOFF crafters getting so used to those profits that they now (FALSELY) feel entitled to them.
It's like a store owner pleading with the city council to block the construction of a competing establishment. No, all of those profits are NOT your god-given right for life, and you are NOT owed a perpetual monopoly over endgame TAC consoles because of the collossal accomplishment of clicking on a few DOFF missions. Deal with it.
you cant craft because?you forgot to say why you cant craft or why those who paid for mk XII have to buy the best gear in game again .
It takes a fleet's combined resources to level to and provision the availability of these new tac consoles to be available to a fleet, then it takes even more personal player resources to actually obtain these consoles one by one. Double dilithium dipping all the way.
Then there is the issue of time gates between projects, availability of said projects to use fleet marks on.(this is an issue in my fleet) and the necessary grinding times for resources.
In the end, the effort and time needed = Hardly cheap if you ask me. Even for big fleets, SOMEONE has to do the work and the time.
Why is this effort considered to be of any less value then the effort it takes to currently craft the classic ones? This I don't understand at all.
But too those who worry that their current crafted consoles will loose too much value:
Just look at it this way, there should still be PLENTY of demand for the old classic tac consoles. There are still a few small fleets, or fleet-less players out there.
Not to mention, some will always take the quick and easy way out and just buy a bunch of keys and sell em to buy readily available consoles.
so a fleet gets to t3 and gives you access for free like NoP Public service channel is about your combined forced. /facepalm
you cant craft because?you forgot to say why you cant craft or why those who paid for mk XII have to buy the best gear in game again .
Never said I can't craft it, but it's irrelevant anyway. Just because the price drops on something after you bought it does not entitle you to compensation, nor are you somehow "wronged" if a new piece of gear outperforms something you foolishly spent a fortune to purchase.
So, boo hoo, you paid the absurdly bloated price for that extra 1.9% weapon damage, and now there are better consoles out there. That is what's known as the "early adopter tax." I suppose you're one of those people who get angry when other people got newer PS3s for hundreds less than the first generation model you lorded over all the other kids on Xmas morning.
Never said I can't craft it, but it's irrelevant anyway. Just because the price drops on something after you bought it does not entitle you to compensation, nor are you somehow "wronged" if a new piece of gear outperforms something you foolishly spent a fortune to purchase.
So, boo hoo, you paid the absurdly bloated price for that extra 1.9% weapon damage, and now there are better consoles out there. That is what's known as the "early adopter tax." I suppose you're one of those people who get angry when other people got newer PS3s for hundreds less than the first generation model you lorded over all the other kids on Xmas morning.
:rolleyes:
Foolishly? So stuffs you pay for are foolishly bought?Guess cryptic should stop selling ships now.
You talks alot without thinking.You have no idea what is adopter tax or why is not good to TRIBBLE up with prices.
I want to see you next season when you will delete your stuffs or sell them to vendors and then grind for new ones.Don't come on the forums to QQ about grinding then ,I will only laugh at you even more.
Have no idea what you BS about ps3 and consoles....seems you know better because its about stuffs in your age group.
In the real world where gaming companies (not PWE or cryptic ...I said gaming companies not bad jokes) have some respect for their customers and power creep is 200000000000% less than what cryptic does with sto ,each time something new is added in the "best gear" category ,those who already have that "best gear" get to upgrade it to new one so no one ever feels cheated about the time spent grinding for the old item.
Foolishly? So stuffs you pay for are foolishly bought?
At those exchange prices, yes. Absolutely.
Guess cryptic should stop selling ships now.
A wholly separate topic from the exchange economy.
You talks alot without thinking.You have no idea what is adopter tax or why is not good to TRIBBLE up with prices.
I want to see you next season when you will delete your stuffs or sell them to vendors and then grind for new ones.Don't come on the forums to QQ about grinding then ,I will only laugh at you even more.
I've been playing this game since it went live. I was around when Mk X purple was the highest level gear you could get. Exchange prices fluctuate with changing game conditions. You are not a "victim" when what was profitable before ceases to be so, or what was expensive before becomes cheaper. Simply put, you are not entitled to immunity from change.
In the real world where gaming companies (not PWE or cryptic ...I said gaming companies not bad jokes) have some respect for their customers
You're not talking about respect for all customers, but only for those few who have invested heavily in the status quo. You were never promised that those choices would never come back to bite you. In fact, if you pay attention, you've been given every reason to believe you would eventually live to regret spending 50k EC on one Tac console. Buyer beware.
those who already have that "best gear" get to upgrade it to new one so no one ever feels cheated about the time spent grinding for the old item.
What you "feel" is irrelevant. The objective fact is that you were never promised that the supply of endgame consoles would forever be limited in a way that keeps prices steady, and when you purchase a piece of gear, there was never, ever any guarantee that it won't be rendered obsolete later on. If you assumed otherwise, that's your problem.
so a fleet gets to t3 and gives you access for free like NoP Public service channel is about your combined forced. /facepalm
What?
Will some players use the channel to get em ? WHO CARES?
SOMEONE, still has to level to t3 and complete the provision assignments. In my opinion this effort combined with the fact that players still have to put in some effort and resources AFTER working to provision them, to actually OBTAIN them, justifies the current cost.
You wanna disagree, fine, faceplam yourself silly. But I and my fleetmates have been contributing to these projects, our combined effort counts for something too. :rolleyes:
BTW- To be clear, I'm NOT saying you shouldn't get compensated for your efforts. You should get whatever you can get for YOUR EFFORTS. Sell your consoles for whatever you can get for em. I love capitalism to pieces. Just do me a favor and don't discount the effort fleets and players put into getting the fleet consoles, cause that's just a plain one sided argument.
You're not talking about respect for all customers, but only for those few who have invested heavily in the status quo. You were never promised that those choices would never come back to bite you.
entitled much?You should get all end game from day one because you are special and special people need to be helped to get the best of the best fast and easy.
Will some players use the channel to get em ? WHO CARES?
SOMEONE, still has to level to t3 and complete the provision assignments. In my opinion this effort combined with the fact that players still have to put in some effort and resources AFTER working to provision them, to actually OBTAIN them, justifies the current cost.
You wanna disagree, fine, faceplam yourself silly. But I and my fleetmates have been contributing to these projects, our combined effort counts for something too. :rolleyes:
You and your fleetmates kill borgs all day and know about game balance and power creep about the same as Geko.
You will obtain the best gear in game fast and easy and those who already have the best gear in game will have to do another round of grinding because you are special and need the best gear fast from day one.Dont worry next season you and your fleet mates will start all over for even more power creep and everything you bought now with zen/grinding will be vendor trash.
entitled much?You should get all end game from day one because you are special and special people need to be helped to get the best of the best fast and easy.
I don't know who you think you're talking to, or how you've convinced yourself you know what you're talking about, but these spire consoles are FAR from easy, instant access to endgame content.
You and your fleetmates kill borgs all day and know about game balance and power creep about the same as Geko.
You will obtain the best gear in game fast and easy and those who already have the best gear in game will have to do another round of grinding because you are special and need the best gear fast from day one.Dont worry next season you and your fleet mates will start all over for even more power creep and everything you bought now with zen/grinding will be vendor trash.
Being melodromatic doesn't make you sound any more credible. :rolleyes:
Yes, sometimes your gear will be rendered obsolete. No, that doesn't mean you have somehow been "wronged." New assets, new content, and new gear are all attempts at keeping the game from growing stagnant. You are not "special" for having spent 50k on one Tac console, either. That price doesn't afford you exclusivity, and nobody ever promised you it would.
You will obtain the best gear in game fast and easy and those who already have the best gear in game will have to do another round of grinding because you are special and need the best gear fast from day one.
I just got through telling you why I considered the effort to get these consoles justification for the cost.
Now you wanna go on some rant about power creep and getting the best gear too fast and easy?
****! I don't have enough bread crumbs to find my way home.
Okay, So let's expand on this for a minute then shall we? Say someone buys a whole bunch of keys and sells them on the exchange. Then they buy a bunch of your crafted tac consoles.
This stops the problem of power creep HOW.................
How does this stop people from getting the best gear in the game too easily EITHER? :rolleyes:
Not to mention, there's that whole pesky pay to win issue.
So I fail to see what you're trying to defend here.
Dont worry next season you and your fleet mates will start all over for even more power creep and everything you bought now with zen/grinding will be vendor trash.
Look, I'm not oblivious to the issue of power creep, but it looks like it's here to stay. And if all the equipment that we get through the fleet holdings will be vendor trash tomorrow, that hardly helps your argument that these consoles should cost more.
I think all the time the crafted consoles millions of EC's cost has been around, they more than got their fair share. As for the new fleet consoles, it was only time before like every MMO items are outdone with new gear additions, and the cost to bring a spire to tier 3 + the console cost is sufficient.
I agree that spire consoles AREN'T cheap unless your toon has been contributing big to the fleet from the beginning, not to mention the fleets costs involved getting the holding to tier 3.
Will some players use the channel to get em ? WHO CARES?
SOMEONE, still has to level to t3 and complete the provision assignments. In my opinion this effort combined with the fact that players still have to put in some effort and resources AFTER working to provision them, to actually OBTAIN them, justifies the current cost.
Dude, its the other way around.
You want to get access to fleet equipment, and do it the long way by actually building the starbase and all the fleet holding to its max level? WHO CARES????
what we need is someone giving access to their top tier starbase - wait we already have that someone dental for fed and NoP for KDF - provide the access FOR FREE.
the rest of us just need to build a tier 1 of everything, and stock provision. thats it.
requesting invite from NoP is not difficult at all - in fact you'll get a quick response compared to the old private-public-channel.
And if that is still hard for you? well, you might re-think do you really have what it needs to play an mmo.
I dont know of another MMO where you can just go to a shop and get the best gear. The spire consoles are beyond silly, no need to work for them at all. It doesnt take much effort at all to get spire to t1, provision, then ask for a base invite
I dont know of another MMO where you can just go to a shop and get the best gear. The spire consoles are beyond silly, no need to work for them at all. It doesnt take much effort at all to get spire to t1, provision, then ask for a base invite
That sound like more of a problem with the ability to buy via base invite instead of having to build up a spire yourself. The costs and amount of work it takes to get them when you actually bulid up a fleet spire is more than enough.
And thats just two toons. 400k dilithium almost already (yeah i usually contrib in mostly dilithium cause its a huge fleet that has no problem with marks or commidities)
I think I "earn" my stuff just fine (as well as helping out the less fortunate fleetmates without the bank account I happen to have).
Thats just on Tier 0 and the tier 1 upgrades too. Wait til the big projects open, I think ill be "earning" plenty, just not through self righteous people that expect me to pay THEM. Ill buy from my friends in my awesome fleet.
Deal with it.
Edit to add: LOL at the concept of fleet holding being "cheap." Just five provisions costs about 100,000 fleet contribs on TOP of the cost of the consoles.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
That sound like more of a problem with the ability to buy via base invite instead of having to build up a spire yourself. The costs and amount of work it takes to get them when you actually bulid up a fleet spire is more than enough.
Why go to a shop, our fleet makes our own stuff. When you come down to it, you have to jump through some serious provisioning hoops on this holding to get enough consoles to go around. I think anyone with the ability to have five on a ship is going to find they have spent way more on the fleets than they would have on the dropped/doffed ones, if you take into account the cost of Dilithium at current exchange rates.
Edit, meant to quote the post you quoted, my bad.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Edit to add: LOL at the concept of fleet holding being "cheap." Just five provisions costs about 100,000 fleet contribs on TOP of the cost of the consoles.
Bitchplease
http://puu.sh/5uDoF.jpg Other names edited out so I dont get competition from buying marks from them
an hour of farming a day is enough to fill a holding. Or if I'm lazy I can just buy fleet marks from someone with ec. I consider 1 hour work a day "cheap"
If you have 5 people in a fleet, a week of intensive farming would yield enough resources to fill a holding all the way to tier 3
Personally... despite having run up the EC to buy Mk XII VR consoles, I have never bothered, since Mk XII Rares gave you 90% of the performance for 10% of the cost. I do not believe that difference is enough to materially affect player competence in PVP or ESTF, it was purely for bragging rights. Now those that went down that route are crying foul because they've lost their percieved superiority over the hoi-polloi.
Simple facts:
- Nobody was forced to buy Mk XII VRs to be "competitive" - Mk XII Rares were good enough. If there is an issue, it's that the Fleet consoles are *so* much more powerful that they are must-haves.
- Mk XII VRs were not terribly difficult to get - you just had to grind the Artefacts mission and/or ECs. This takes time but not a great deal of skill or brainpower. Contrast this with the old Mk XII STF gear, or even the Borg set in its day, which required the repeated completion of the hardest missions in-game.
- Unless you're truly insecure, other people having access to good gear does not devalue your own ship. This is especially true in a game like STO where PVP is marginal at best.
Now, if the complaint was that the Fleet consoles were OP and undermine non-Fleet players... that would make sense. If the complaint was that the new consoles made game content "too easy"... that would make sense. But complaining that the cost in the Fleet holdings is too low... is just childish.
http://puu.sh/5uDoF.jpg Other names edited out so I dont get competition from buying marks from them
an hour of farming a day is enough to fill a holding. Or if I'm lazy I can just buy fleet marks from someone with ec. I consider 1 hour work a day "cheap"
If you have 5 people in a fleet, a week of intensive farming would yield enough resources to fill a holding all the way to tier 3
The difference is youre doing it virtually solo, whereas I am not. XD (also noticed you did the big tier 1 first to inflate your numbers a wee mite, that project is slotted next for us, we did the two smalls first, so once that comes around im sure your big number there wont look so big)
I dont NEED to do a million a holding because we share the load. Sucks for you mate.
Thats the advantage of a big fleet.
So go QQ some more about the market of doffed consoles? Looks to me like youre after the spire ones yourself.
Checkmate.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Oh no I never crafted a console myself, took too much effort, I dont get why people assume anyone that says fleet gear is too easy to obtain to be a console crafter. Theres much easier ways to farm ec. My argument is in support of the OP in that fleet holdings are too cheap to max out. I liked the old method for getting gear with borg prototype salvage, made you have to actually play to get the gear
Oh no I never crafted a console myself, took too much effort. Theres much easier ways to farm ec. My argument is in support of the OP in that fleet holdings are too cheap to max out. I liked the old method for getting gear with borg prototype salvage
Lets do some math!!! (post will be edited as I construct it)
VR Mk 12 - Valued at approximately 30 million before the spire holding. We will use this as our number to reach.
Current exchange rate to sell dilithium for Zen: 138
Current cost of a Master Key: 125 Zen
Current Dilithium cost for a Master Key: 138 x 125 = 17,250
Current Exchange rate of Keys to EC: 1.8 Million EC
30 mil / 1.8 = 16.66667. So we need 17 keys to sell.
17 x 17,250 = 293,250
So we needed about 290k Dilithium to buy a console. One console.
Cost of Console in Store: 50,000 FC, 10,000 Dilithium = 60,000 Dilithium
BUT WAIT THERES MORE!!1
1 console provision = 100,000 Dilithium/4 (we will use the simplest provisioning project) = 25,000 dilithium
So now we are at 85,000 Dilithium per console.
BUT WAIT THERES MORE!!!!11
In order to unlock the console someone has to get the spire holding to tier 2. This means we need to do the leveling projects for Tiers 0 and 1, as well as the upgrades for the path 1 and 2. (cheapest way)
Lets just calculate the dilithium cost alone (not even going to include marks or Doffs here, this gets lulzy fast)
25,500 Research XP / 1500 (two projects at once) = 17 20 hour cycles. The first 8 will be tier 0's at 22,500 A cycle
8 * 22500 = 180,000
The other 9 will be at tier 1 with a combined cycle cost in Dilithium of 36000.
9* 36000 = 324000
So on just leveling projects we have spent 504,000 Dilithium
BUT WAIT THERES MORE!!!!!
We have to do the Tier 1 and Tier 2 upgrade projects in there as well.
Dilithium cost on those are 78,000 and 350,000, respectively
So there we have another 428,000 Dilithium.
Total dilithium cost alone to upgrade to get the unlock for the first stage of consoles = 932,000.
So lets calculate the per person cost (just in dilithium) for a console from the spire.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Comments
ROFL!!!!!!!!!! There are tons of other ways to make EC in game:
1. Buy some lockboxes, sell them or the items in it. <giggles>
2. Sell some bridge officers.
The list is endless and the countless other consoles that are out there.:D
Try making some mk xii purple tac consoles yourself then tell us they are overpriced. And for the people that dont have millions of credits nor have the time to get that much, get mk xi blue, its not like theres any difference in performance
No ... I don't. Stop creating problems where none exist.
Or be content to not have access to the best consoles.
It takes a fleet's combined resources to level to and provision the availability of these new tac consoles to be available to a fleet, then it takes even more personal player resources to actually obtain these consoles one by one. Double dilithium dipping all the way.
Then there is the issue of time gates between projects, availability of said projects to use fleet marks on.(this is an issue in my fleet) and the necessary grinding times for resources.
In the end, the effort and time needed = Hardly cheap if you ask me.
Why is this effort considered to be of any less value then the effort it takes to currently craft the classic ones? This I don't understand at all.
But too those who worry that their current crafted consoles will loose too much value:
Just look at it this way, there should still be PLENTY of demand for the old classic tac consoles. There are still a few small fleets, or fleet-less players out there.
Not to mention, some will always take the quick and easy way out and just buy a bunch of keys and sell em to buy readily available consoles.
No mystery here. It's a self-serving distortion of the concept of "value," due to some DOFF crafters getting so used to those profits that they now (FALSELY) feel entitled to them.
It's like a store owner pleading with the city council to block the construction of a competing establishment. No, all of those profits are NOT your god-given right for life, and you are NOT owed a perpetual monopoly over endgame TAC consoles because of the collossal accomplishment of clicking on a few DOFF missions. Deal with it.
you cant craft because?you forgot to say why you cant craft or why those who paid for mk XII have to buy the best gear in game again .
so a fleet gets to t3 and gives you access for free like NoP Public service channel is about your combined forced. /facepalm
Never said I can't craft it, but it's irrelevant anyway. Just because the price drops on something after you bought it does not entitle you to compensation, nor are you somehow "wronged" if a new piece of gear outperforms something you foolishly spent a fortune to purchase.
So, boo hoo, you paid the absurdly bloated price for that extra 1.9% weapon damage, and now there are better consoles out there. That is what's known as the "early adopter tax." I suppose you're one of those people who get angry when other people got newer PS3s for hundreds less than the first generation model you lorded over all the other kids on Xmas morning.
:rolleyes:
Foolishly? So stuffs you pay for are foolishly bought?Guess cryptic should stop selling ships now.
You talks alot without thinking.You have no idea what is adopter tax or why is not good to TRIBBLE up with prices.
I want to see you next season when you will delete your stuffs or sell them to vendors and then grind for new ones.Don't come on the forums to QQ about grinding then ,I will only laugh at you even more.
Have no idea what you BS about ps3 and consoles....seems you know better because its about stuffs in your age group.
In the real world where gaming companies (not PWE or cryptic ...I said gaming companies not bad jokes) have some respect for their customers and power creep is 200000000000% less than what cryptic does with sto ,each time something new is added in the "best gear" category ,those who already have that "best gear" get to upgrade it to new one so no one ever feels cheated about the time spent grinding for the old item.
At those exchange prices, yes. Absolutely.
A wholly separate topic from the exchange economy.
I've been playing this game since it went live. I was around when Mk X purple was the highest level gear you could get. Exchange prices fluctuate with changing game conditions. You are not a "victim" when what was profitable before ceases to be so, or what was expensive before becomes cheaper. Simply put, you are not entitled to immunity from change.
You're not talking about respect for all customers, but only for those few who have invested heavily in the status quo. You were never promised that those choices would never come back to bite you. In fact, if you pay attention, you've been given every reason to believe you would eventually live to regret spending 50k EC on one Tac console. Buyer beware.
What you "feel" is irrelevant. The objective fact is that you were never promised that the supply of endgame consoles would forever be limited in a way that keeps prices steady, and when you purchase a piece of gear, there was never, ever any guarantee that it won't be rendered obsolete later on. If you assumed otherwise, that's your problem.
What?
Will some players use the channel to get em ? WHO CARES?
SOMEONE, still has to level to t3 and complete the provision assignments. In my opinion this effort combined with the fact that players still have to put in some effort and resources AFTER working to provision them, to actually OBTAIN them, justifies the current cost.
You wanna disagree, fine, faceplam yourself silly. But I and my fleetmates have been contributing to these projects, our combined effort counts for something too. :rolleyes:
BTW- To be clear, I'm NOT saying you shouldn't get compensated for your efforts. You should get whatever you can get for YOUR EFFORTS. Sell your consoles for whatever you can get for em. I love capitalism to pieces. Just do me a favor and don't discount the effort fleets and players put into getting the fleet consoles, cause that's just a plain one sided argument.
entitled much?You should get all end game from day one because you are special and special people need to be helped to get the best of the best fast and easy.
You and your fleetmates kill borgs all day and know about game balance and power creep about the same as Geko.
You will obtain the best gear in game fast and easy and those who already have the best gear in game will have to do another round of grinding because you are special and need the best gear fast from day one.Dont worry next season you and your fleet mates will start all over for even more power creep and everything you bought now with zen/grinding will be vendor trash.
I don't know who you think you're talking to, or how you've convinced yourself you know what you're talking about, but these spire consoles are FAR from easy, instant access to endgame content.
Being melodromatic doesn't make you sound any more credible. :rolleyes:
Yes, sometimes your gear will be rendered obsolete. No, that doesn't mean you have somehow been "wronged." New assets, new content, and new gear are all attempts at keeping the game from growing stagnant. You are not "special" for having spent 50k on one Tac console, either. That price doesn't afford you exclusivity, and nobody ever promised you it would.
Okay, so what we have here is a complete break in reasoning that sounds like you are talking through your TRIBBLE.
I just got through telling you why I considered the effort to get these consoles justification for the cost.
Now you wanna go on some rant about power creep and getting the best gear too fast and easy?
****! I don't have enough bread crumbs to find my way home.
Okay, So let's expand on this for a minute then shall we? Say someone buys a whole bunch of keys and sells them on the exchange. Then they buy a bunch of your crafted tac consoles.
This stops the problem of power creep HOW.................
How does this stop people from getting the best gear in the game too easily EITHER? :rolleyes:
Not to mention, there's that whole pesky pay to win issue.
So I fail to see what you're trying to defend here.
Look, I'm not oblivious to the issue of power creep, but it looks like it's here to stay. And if all the equipment that we get through the fleet holdings will be vendor trash tomorrow, that hardly helps your argument that these consoles should cost more.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
yet my TRIBBLE likes to think ,your brain only sits there doing nothing better than trolling and spamming the forum .
the game has now the depth for your IQ level.Go get everything from the store from day 1 .This game is slowly turning into a console game for kids.
I Agree completely.
And what this is, purely and simply, is a clinical psychotic reaction.
Good evening Captainedna, I wish you all the best selling your crafted consoles. :rolleyes:
Dude, its the other way around.
You want to get access to fleet equipment, and do it the long way by actually building the starbase and all the fleet holding to its max level? WHO CARES????
what we need is someone giving access to their top tier starbase - wait we already have that someone dental for fed and NoP for KDF - provide the access FOR FREE.
the rest of us just need to build a tier 1 of everything, and stock provision. thats it.
requesting invite from NoP is not difficult at all - in fact you'll get a quick response compared to the old private-public-channel.
And if that is still hard for you? well, you might re-think do you really have what it needs to play an mmo.
That sound like more of a problem with the ability to buy via base invite instead of having to build up a spire yourself. The costs and amount of work it takes to get them when you actually bulid up a fleet spire is more than enough.
You really mean "not earning it from me"
Bitchplease
http://i.imgur.com/c8DGyeS.jpg Other names edited out for privacy.
And thats just two toons. 400k dilithium almost already (yeah i usually contrib in mostly dilithium cause its a huge fleet that has no problem with marks or commidities)
I think I "earn" my stuff just fine (as well as helping out the less fortunate fleetmates without the bank account I happen to have).
Thats just on Tier 0 and the tier 1 upgrades too. Wait til the big projects open, I think ill be "earning" plenty, just not through self righteous people that expect me to pay THEM. Ill buy from my friends in my awesome fleet.
Deal with it.
Edit to add: LOL at the concept of fleet holding being "cheap." Just five provisions costs about 100,000 fleet contribs on TOP of the cost of the consoles.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Why go to a shop, our fleet makes our own stuff. When you come down to it, you have to jump through some serious provisioning hoops on this holding to get enough consoles to go around. I think anyone with the ability to have five on a ship is going to find they have spent way more on the fleets than they would have on the dropped/doffed ones, if you take into account the cost of Dilithium at current exchange rates.
Edit, meant to quote the post you quoted, my bad.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Bitchplease
http://puu.sh/5uDoF.jpg Other names edited out so I dont get competition from buying marks from them
an hour of farming a day is enough to fill a holding. Or if I'm lazy I can just buy fleet marks from someone with ec. I consider 1 hour work a day "cheap"
If you have 5 people in a fleet, a week of intensive farming would yield enough resources to fill a holding all the way to tier 3
Personally... despite having run up the EC to buy Mk XII VR consoles, I have never bothered, since Mk XII Rares gave you 90% of the performance for 10% of the cost. I do not believe that difference is enough to materially affect player competence in PVP or ESTF, it was purely for bragging rights. Now those that went down that route are crying foul because they've lost their percieved superiority over the hoi-polloi.
Simple facts:
- Nobody was forced to buy Mk XII VRs to be "competitive" - Mk XII Rares were good enough. If there is an issue, it's that the Fleet consoles are *so* much more powerful that they are must-haves.
- Mk XII VRs were not terribly difficult to get - you just had to grind the Artefacts mission and/or ECs. This takes time but not a great deal of skill or brainpower. Contrast this with the old Mk XII STF gear, or even the Borg set in its day, which required the repeated completion of the hardest missions in-game.
- Unless you're truly insecure, other people having access to good gear does not devalue your own ship. This is especially true in a game like STO where PVP is marginal at best.
Now, if the complaint was that the Fleet consoles were OP and undermine non-Fleet players... that would make sense. If the complaint was that the new consoles made game content "too easy"... that would make sense. But complaining that the cost in the Fleet holdings is too low... is just childish.
The difference is youre doing it virtually solo, whereas I am not. XD (also noticed you did the big tier 1 first to inflate your numbers a wee mite, that project is slotted next for us, we did the two smalls first, so once that comes around im sure your big number there wont look so big)
I dont NEED to do a million a holding because we share the load. Sucks for you mate.
Thats the advantage of a big fleet.
So go QQ some more about the market of doffed consoles? Looks to me like youre after the spire ones yourself.
Checkmate.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Lets do some math!!! (post will be edited as I construct it)
VR Mk 12 - Valued at approximately 30 million before the spire holding. We will use this as our number to reach.
Current exchange rate to sell dilithium for Zen: 138
Current cost of a Master Key: 125 Zen
Current Dilithium cost for a Master Key: 138 x 125 = 17,250
Current Exchange rate of Keys to EC: 1.8 Million EC
30 mil / 1.8 = 16.66667. So we need 17 keys to sell.
17 x 17,250 = 293,250
So we needed about 290k Dilithium to buy a console. One console.
Cost of Console in Store: 50,000 FC, 10,000 Dilithium = 60,000 Dilithium
BUT WAIT THERES MORE!!1
1 console provision = 100,000 Dilithium/4 (we will use the simplest provisioning project) = 25,000 dilithium
So now we are at 85,000 Dilithium per console.
BUT WAIT THERES MORE!!!!11
In order to unlock the console someone has to get the spire holding to tier 2. This means we need to do the leveling projects for Tiers 0 and 1, as well as the upgrades for the path 1 and 2. (cheapest way)
Lets just calculate the dilithium cost alone (not even going to include marks or Doffs here, this gets lulzy fast)
25,500 Research XP / 1500 (two projects at once) = 17 20 hour cycles. The first 8 will be tier 0's at 22,500 A cycle
8 * 22500 = 180,000
The other 9 will be at tier 1 with a combined cycle cost in Dilithium of 36000.
9* 36000 = 324000
So on just leveling projects we have spent 504,000 Dilithium
BUT WAIT THERES MORE!!!!!
We have to do the Tier 1 and Tier 2 upgrade projects in there as well.
Dilithium cost on those are 78,000 and 350,000, respectively
So there we have another 428,000 Dilithium.
Total dilithium cost alone to upgrade to get the unlock for the first stage of consoles = 932,000.
So lets calculate the per person cost (just in dilithium) for a console from the spire.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus