Always going to be complainers, even if you give away stuff for free with little to no effort there is going to be someone who will complain about it.
true. If is not a misprice due to lack of understanding about the current market conditions, it could be seen as a way to adjust the pricing of mk XII tac consoles. However, if that is the case, it make the old doff crafting system obsolete. Which is a shame. This was one of the last grips that crafting had on being relevant to game play. I would have rather seen the new consoles added AND increase ways to craft useful gear. But that is me. I like crafting and doffing and would like to see more addition to those system.
"Star Trek Online is powered by the most abundant resource in the galaxy . . . Gullibility"
Not everyone uses the Fleet system so there is still a market for these consoles. Also, it will be about a couple of weeks before the first fleets get access to these consoles since it requires Tier 2 Research for them and those fleets just unlocked some warp cores.
(And i think it would be hard to impossible for larger fleets with more than 200 members to get 450k/750k Fleetcredits per char)
Also, there is considerable more work to do than just "drop 50k FC + 9kDil & take console" before the first console will pour out of the spire.
This thread, like the other theads, looks like just *another* try from some console crafters to keep their money printing machines (in form of multiple crafting & NADORC/Datasample farming chars) running.
Indeed, it isn't JUST getting tier 2/3 Spire (tier 2 for CrtH consoles, tier 3 for CrtD ones), it's provisioning and having enough provisions for people, depending on your fleet size of course.
By the time folks get there, the resources spent (irregardless of how few or how many people that is split between) will be much more than folks are thinking. Personally I look forward to having my shiny new fleet consoles in the future.
(On a side note, it is kinda funny to me that so many folks raise a fuss about these tac consoles, yet so many are ignoring the bigger elephant in the room: The DOFF slots. IMO that is a WAY larger thing than mere tac consoles.)
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
The consoles on the exchange that go for 20-40 million aren't overpriced, supply is low and demand is high. Those are the prices they sell for, and it's as simple as that.
The Spire tac consoles will more than address the supply issue, so they should be much cheaper, and moreover their price is in-line with other Mk XII fleet consoles.
Exchange price of Tact Consoles is not high at all. If you want the best DPS, you have to work for it. I did and it's why I own Very Rare Tactical Consoles on all my toons.
Which is why these new Fleet Consoles are a slap in the face. They need to have their Energy Dmg % Nerfed. People have quite literally put months into their Tactical Consoles and now an AFK farmer can earn better with zero effort.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
Exchange price of Tact Consoles is not high at all. If you want the best DPS, you have to work for it. I did and it's why I own Very Rare Tactical Consoles on all my toons.
Which is why these new Fleet Consoles are a slap in the face. They need to have their Energy Dmg % Nerfed. People have quite literally put months into their Tactical Consoles and now an AFK farmer can earn better with zero effort.
Would that be in the same way that someone may have slaved away converting dilithium into zen to buy a nice new ship, only to see it blown away by the next new shiny ship?
Or perhaps, is it the same thing as someone who spent millions on the exchange to build a particular doff configuration only to find that the aux2batt doff configuration is better?
Do those people deserve the next new thing to be nerfed so that their previous investment in time and money is not devalued?
Things change.
Those who took part in the VR MKII console market have had a good run of it. Fortumes were made, ships made as good as they could be.
However, thats over now, because things change.
And if this is the straw that breaks your particular camels back.......can I have your stuff, because I bet there's a few consoles in there that will still be worth 10million or so next week.
The consoles on the exchange that go for 20-40 million aren't overpriced, supply is low .
Gonna stop you right here. Supply is ridiculously high actually. I count over 50 of them just in polaron alone. They are not purchased en masse because of the inflated price. Some yahoo saw them dropping, bought them all at 15, reposted at 20 (i actually watched them do this on the exchange yesterday, I have a habit of watching prices on things that just came into fleet stores), and is now mad they wont sell at 20 because we are all holding out on fleets.
Not my problem
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Exchange price of Tact Consoles is not high at all. If you want the best DPS, you have to work for it. I did and it's why I own Very Rare Tactical Consoles on all my toons.
Which is why these new Fleet Consoles are a slap in the face. They need to have their Energy Dmg % Nerfed. People have quite literally put months into their Tactical Consoles and now an AFK farmer can earn better with zero effort.
This whole post made me roar with laughter. Why?
Because it isnt up to you or any other player when I have earned the right to a console, pal.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Thread in a nutshell: Greedy console crafters trying to keep their monopoly vs greedy large fleet members too cheap to pay fair market value, who will win?
Are you serious? You're asking for a massive price increase for fleet tac consoles :rolleyes: Either you're trolling or you have way to many purple mk xii tac consoles in your bank account. Better get rid of them before the first fleets complete their spires. :P
Sometimes... on a still, cool evening... after I've put all the little Bridge Officers to bed and tucked 'em all in... as I'm relaxing with a Saurian Brandy out on the veranda... I could SWEAR, just below the sound of the Denebian Crickets singing their little nighttime love songs, I can hear the screams of wounded War Profiteers as they lay dieing in the darkness... sometimes... :P
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
I love this idea. If we're gonna add more P2W power creep to the game, lets at least put a REAL price tag on it! After all, what good is increased DPS e-peen if everyone can do it? *laughs*
Because it isnt up to you or any other player when I have earned the right to a console, pal.
People shouldn't just be give the best things in a game. They need to earn it.
Fleet holdings is not earning it. You can get a map invite to a 500 player's fleet base and purchase items with practically no work.
Giving bad players nice items simply rewards players for being bad.
I have ZERO problems with the consoles outside of their Energy DMG %. Nice Tact Consoles have always been rare because this game has no imagination of difficulty outside of DPS.
So laugh all you want. I don't really care. It won't change my opinion on these consoles being too good for the price they are asking.
Either way, my ship will still pwn the hell out of theirs.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
I love this idea. If we're gonna add more P2W power creep to the game, lets at least put a REAL price tag on it! After all, what good is increased DPS e-peen if everyone can do it? *laughs*
P2W...... Like people who buy keys - sell on exchange = buy consoles? You people make me laugh. Unless it is given for free in the game its is Paid for in some way.
People shouldn't just be give the best things in a game. They need to earn it.
Fleet holdings is not earning it. You can get a map invite to a 500 player's fleet base and purchase items with practically no work.
Giving bad players nice items simply rewards players for being bad.
I have ZERO problems with the consoles outside of their Energy DMG %. Nice Tact Consoles have always been rare because this game has no imagination of difficulty outside of DPS.
So laugh all you want. I don't really care. It won't change my opinion on these consoles being too good for the price they are asking.
Either way, my ship will still pwn the hell out of theirs.
I am in one of those Fleets and im working hard towards those consoles. But the thing you are not realizing, is that you have to have provisions for it. You cant just pop in and say hey ill get me one of those from you.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sometimes... on a still, cool evening... after I've put all the little Bridge Officers to bed and tucked 'em all in... as I'm relaxing with a Saurian Brandy out on the veranda... I could SWEAR, just below the sound of the Denebian Crickets singing their little nighttime love songs, I can hear the screams of wounded War Profiteers as they lay dieing in the darkness... sometimes... :P
Sometimes... on a still, cool evening... after I've put all the little Bridge Officers to bed and tucked 'em all in... as I'm relaxing with a Saurian Brandy out on the veranda... I could SWEAR, just below the sound of the Denebian Crickets singing their little nighttime love songs, I can hear the screams of wounded War Profiteers as they lay dieing in the darkness... sometimes... :P
Like a Ferengi? I'm currently picturing the sound Nog makes when he gets shot in the leg....:eek:
But this is one of the funniest things i have seen in response to someone whining.:cool:
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sometimes... on a still, cool evening... after I've put all the little Bridge Officers to bed and tucked 'em all in... as I'm relaxing with a Saurian Brandy out on the veranda... I could SWEAR, just below the sound of the Denebian Crickets singing their little nighttime love songs, I can hear the screams of wounded War Profiteers as they lay dieing in the darkness... sometimes... :P
People shouldn't just be give the best things in a game. They need to earn it.
Fleet holdings is not earning it. You can get a map invite to a 500 player's fleet base and purchase items with practically no work.
Giving bad players nice items simply rewards players for being bad.
I have ZERO problems with the consoles outside of their Energy DMG %. Nice Tact Consoles have always been rare because this game has no imagination of difficulty outside of DPS.
So laugh all you want. I don't really care. It won't change my opinion on these consoles being too good for the price they are asking.
Either way, my ship will still pwn the hell out of theirs.
I'm guessing you were crafting these and you weren't too good at it or you didn't get the console crafting doffs before the personnel officer changes went into effect. The devs have been killing EC making schemes for months now woth the fleet holdings and stealth patches. If you didn't profit when things were good you're out of luck. Find other ways of making EC, deal with it, and stop complaining. Power creep for everyone is here to stay.
I'm guessing you were crafting these and you weren't too good at it or you didn't get the console crafting doffs before the personnel officer changes went into effect. The devs have been killing EC making schemes for months now woth the fleet holdings and stealth patches. If you didn't profit when things were good you're out of luck. Find other ways of making EC, deal with it, and stop complaining. Power creep for everyone is here to stay.
Ironically its less of a Power Creep now. Once everyone has stuff they can change and/or make better content. At this point Power Creep is going to balance out just at a higher level than before
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'm just going to leave this here for OP to ignore.
Getting your fleet spire to the level it takes to get these mk XII tac consoles is quite expensive. You're looking at upgrading required tracks and the spire itself.
Ignoring the costs of the experience projects, and just looking at the upgrade price required (say spire to tier 2, and the ONE track to tier 3), that's already at least 10 million EC (probably more) in commodities, at least 10-15 million in DOffs (again probably more), and hundreds of thousands of REFINED dilithium (which converts to quite a lot of ECs, definitely at least 50 million if not quite a lot more), to say nothing of the fleet marks and just straight out TIME needed (at least two weeks solid of just upgrading, convert it to say 1 mil ECs a day (easy to get), that's 14 million ECs).
So already we're at a cost of almost 90 million ECs.
Now let's look at the upgrade projects. That's 3 upgrade projects to get to tier 1. That will cost ~100k ECs and ~30k dil in total. Then we go to tier 2. That's going to cost you ~10 mil ECs and ~100k dil. And then to tier 3... that goes up quite a lot. Basically the total cost comes up to ~50 mil ECs and ~500k dil. And let's add on the provisioning...
You get the idea. So the total cost to the fleet comes out to around 200 million ECs and at least a 1 million dilithium.
So please OP.
Just shut up.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Thread in a nutshell: Greedy console crafters trying to keep their monopoly vs greedy large fleet members too cheap to pay fair market value, who will win?
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Before Season 8, could consumers obtain MK XII consoles without purchasing from the exchange?
Before Season 8, did consumers have the same opportunity as the sellers to obtain MK XII consoles?
What is the definition of monopoly?
It's not naive at all to want Cryptic to stop jerking players around.
I've been LTS since launch, so I'm not new to change. My point is and has always been, to stop TRIBBLE people over. Why put any time into the game if we cannot maintain an advantage over those who put next to no time into the game.
These consoles are just another type of cash grab by Cryptic without having to offer any real content.
I'm getting pretty close to just selling off my account at this point, because I have no reason to keep it at the rate they are giving stuff away.
I laugh at those who are defending these freebie consoles that are far better than the rarest of loot drops in the game.
I don't object to their introduction so much as their stats being either too high or the costs being too laughable low.
These things should be more in line with Elite Fleet Shields in cost. Meaning you got to put in some real work for them and not just sponge off a Fleet.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
Before Season 8, could consumers obtain MK XII consoles without purchasing from the exchange?
Before Season 8, did consumers have the same opportunity as the sellers to obtain MK XII consoles?
What is the definition of monopoly?
Have you eve played Monopoly? That games has ruined Friendships and marriages and torn whole families apart.
But the definition being : The exclusive possesion or control of the supply or trade in a comoddity or service.
Now while it may once have been that this was not a thing, "Smart" buyers bought up a lot of the "Stock" to resell at a higher price. While this is how a free economy is supposed to work, these types of economics are technically illegal IRL. You know market Fraud and such......
But the "Government"(Cryptic) is giving us another bonus check (no matter how hard we have to work to get them) so im going to get my fancy consoles and not buy any from the hoarders, price gougers or people who "Play" the market.
Guess what baby the Market is about to crash! And im rolling in it with my Fleet!
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Personally I'd rather have the spire consoles cost the purple mk xii consoles plus a small amount of fc and dil to buy because imo trashing end game gear every time new content comes out is poor game design, but besides ships people have paid real money for I doubt the devs care at all.
This must apply to all fleet stuff but not only to consoles.
Comments
true. If is not a misprice due to lack of understanding about the current market conditions, it could be seen as a way to adjust the pricing of mk XII tac consoles. However, if that is the case, it make the old doff crafting system obsolete. Which is a shame. This was one of the last grips that crafting had on being relevant to game play. I would have rather seen the new consoles added AND increase ways to craft useful gear. But that is me. I like crafting and doffing and would like to see more addition to those system.
Indeed, it isn't JUST getting tier 2/3 Spire (tier 2 for CrtH consoles, tier 3 for CrtD ones), it's provisioning and having enough provisions for people, depending on your fleet size of course.
By the time folks get there, the resources spent (irregardless of how few or how many people that is split between) will be much more than folks are thinking. Personally I look forward to having my shiny new fleet consoles in the future.
(On a side note, it is kinda funny to me that so many folks raise a fuss about these tac consoles, yet so many are ignoring the bigger elephant in the room: The DOFF slots. IMO that is a WAY larger thing than mere tac consoles.)
The Spire tac consoles will more than address the supply issue, so they should be much cheaper, and moreover their price is in-line with other Mk XII fleet consoles.
So I'm not seeing a problem here.
Which is why these new Fleet Consoles are a slap in the face. They need to have their Energy Dmg % Nerfed. People have quite literally put months into their Tactical Consoles and now an AFK farmer can earn better with zero effort.
Would that be in the same way that someone may have slaved away converting dilithium into zen to buy a nice new ship, only to see it blown away by the next new shiny ship?
Or perhaps, is it the same thing as someone who spent millions on the exchange to build a particular doff configuration only to find that the aux2batt doff configuration is better?
Do those people deserve the next new thing to be nerfed so that their previous investment in time and money is not devalued?
Things change.
Those who took part in the VR MKII console market have had a good run of it. Fortumes were made, ships made as good as they could be.
However, thats over now, because things change.
And if this is the straw that breaks your particular camels back.......can I have your stuff, because I bet there's a few consoles in there that will still be worth 10million or so next week.
Gonna stop you right here. Supply is ridiculously high actually. I count over 50 of them just in polaron alone. They are not purchased en masse because of the inflated price. Some yahoo saw them dropping, bought them all at 15, reposted at 20 (i actually watched them do this on the exchange yesterday, I have a habit of watching prices on things that just came into fleet stores), and is now mad they wont sell at 20 because we are all holding out on fleets.
Not my problem
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
This whole post made me roar with laughter. Why?
Because it isnt up to you or any other player when I have earned the right to a console, pal.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Sometimes... on a still, cool evening... after I've put all the little Bridge Officers to bed and tucked 'em all in... as I'm relaxing with a Saurian Brandy out on the veranda... I could SWEAR, just below the sound of the Denebian Crickets singing their little nighttime love songs, I can hear the screams of wounded War Profiteers as they lay dieing in the darkness... sometimes... :P
People shouldn't just be give the best things in a game. They need to earn it.
Fleet holdings is not earning it. You can get a map invite to a 500 player's fleet base and purchase items with practically no work.
Giving bad players nice items simply rewards players for being bad.
I have ZERO problems with the consoles outside of their Energy DMG %. Nice Tact Consoles have always been rare because this game has no imagination of difficulty outside of DPS.
So laugh all you want. I don't really care. It won't change my opinion on these consoles being too good for the price they are asking.
Either way, my ship will still pwn the hell out of theirs.
P2W...... Like people who buy keys - sell on exchange = buy consoles? You people make me laugh. Unless it is given for free in the game its is Paid for in some way.
I am in one of those Fleets and im working hard towards those consoles. But the thing you are not realizing, is that you have to have provisions for it. You cant just pop in and say hey ill get me one of those from you.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
................:D
Like a Ferengi? I'm currently picturing the sound Nog makes when he gets shot in the leg....:eek:
But this is one of the funniest things i have seen in response to someone whining.:cool:
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
............................................______ __
....................................,.-'"...................``~.,
.............................,.-"..................................."-.,
.........................,/...............................................":,
.....................,?........................... ...........................,
.................../.................................................. .........,}
................./.................................................. ....,:`^`..}
.............../.................................................. .,:"........./
..............?.....__............................ .............:`.........../
............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../
.........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`..... ..._/
..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....}
...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../
...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....} ............../
............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-"
............/.`~,......`-...................................../
.............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__
,,_..........}.>-._...................................|............ ..`=~-,
.....`=~-,__......`,.................................
...................`=~-,,.,...............................
................................`:,,.............. .............`..............__
.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``
........................................_......... .._,-%.......`
...................................,
Ill leave this here for you.....
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'm guessing you were crafting these and you weren't too good at it or you didn't get the console crafting doffs before the personnel officer changes went into effect. The devs have been killing EC making schemes for months now woth the fleet holdings and stealth patches. If you didn't profit when things were good you're out of luck. Find other ways of making EC, deal with it, and stop complaining. Power creep for everyone is here to stay.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Ironically its less of a Power Creep now. Once everyone has stuff they can change and/or make better content. At this point Power Creep is going to balance out just at a higher level than before
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Getting your fleet spire to the level it takes to get these mk XII tac consoles is quite expensive. You're looking at upgrading required tracks and the spire itself.
Ignoring the costs of the experience projects, and just looking at the upgrade price required (say spire to tier 2, and the ONE track to tier 3), that's already at least 10 million EC (probably more) in commodities, at least 10-15 million in DOffs (again probably more), and hundreds of thousands of REFINED dilithium (which converts to quite a lot of ECs, definitely at least 50 million if not quite a lot more), to say nothing of the fleet marks and just straight out TIME needed (at least two weeks solid of just upgrading, convert it to say 1 mil ECs a day (easy to get), that's 14 million ECs).
So already we're at a cost of almost 90 million ECs.
Now let's look at the upgrade projects. That's 3 upgrade projects to get to tier 1. That will cost ~100k ECs and ~30k dil in total. Then we go to tier 2. That's going to cost you ~10 mil ECs and ~100k dil. And then to tier 3... that goes up quite a lot. Basically the total cost comes up to ~50 mil ECs and ~500k dil. And let's add on the provisioning...
You get the idea. So the total cost to the fleet comes out to around 200 million ECs and at least a 1 million dilithium.
So please OP.
Just shut up.
Cryptic.
:P
............................................______ __
....................................,.-'"...................``~.,
.............................,.-"..................................."-.,
.........................,/...............................................":,
.....................,?........................... ...........................,
.................../.................................................. .........,}
................./.................................................. ....,:`^`..}
.............../.................................................. .,:"........./
..............?.....__............................ .............:`.........../
............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../
.........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`..... ..._/
..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....}
...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../
...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....} ............../
............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-"
............/.`~,......`-...................................../
.............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__
,,_..........}.>-._...................................|............ ..`=~-,
.....`=~-,__......`,.................................
...................`=~-,,.,...............................
................................`:,,.............. .............`..............__
.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``
........................................_......... .._,-%.......`
...................................,
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Even so, doesn't make it any less of an elephant.
I think now its the V-Rex in the room.......:rolleyes:
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Before Season 8, did consumers have the same opportunity as the sellers to obtain MK XII consoles?
What is the definition of monopoly?
It's not naive at all to want Cryptic to stop jerking players around.
I've been LTS since launch, so I'm not new to change. My point is and has always been, to stop TRIBBLE people over. Why put any time into the game if we cannot maintain an advantage over those who put next to no time into the game.
These consoles are just another type of cash grab by Cryptic without having to offer any real content.
I'm getting pretty close to just selling off my account at this point, because I have no reason to keep it at the rate they are giving stuff away.
I laugh at those who are defending these freebie consoles that are far better than the rarest of loot drops in the game.
I don't object to their introduction so much as their stats being either too high or the costs being too laughable low.
These things should be more in line with Elite Fleet Shields in cost. Meaning you got to put in some real work for them and not just sponge off a Fleet.
Have you eve played Monopoly? That games has ruined Friendships and marriages and torn whole families apart.
But the definition being : The exclusive possesion or control of the supply or trade in a comoddity or service.
Now while it may once have been that this was not a thing, "Smart" buyers bought up a lot of the "Stock" to resell at a higher price. While this is how a free economy is supposed to work, these types of economics are technically illegal IRL. You know market Fraud and such......
But the "Government"(Cryptic) is giving us another bonus check (no matter how hard we have to work to get them) so im going to get my fancy consoles and not buy any from the hoarders, price gougers or people who "Play" the market.
Guess what baby the Market is about to crash! And im rolling in it with my Fleet!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This must apply to all fleet stuff but not only to consoles.
This is just 400k EC and 2k dil per fleet member.