I think 30M for a console is cheap compared to the effort it takes to get a mk xii purple tac console, due to the sheer luck factor and amount of junk produced. Also at the time of the great doffing nerf a few months back tac console prices were around 50M
I liked the old method for getting gear with borg prototype salvage, made you have to actually play to get the gear
A much more sound argument - with that system a player had to be able to competently complete harder missions. The problem with the Mk XII VR consoles is that the *only* way to get them was insanse DOff grinding or EC farming, which arguably encourages Vthe worst aspects of gameplay.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Lets do some math!!! (post will be edited as I construct it)
VR Mk 12 - Valued at approximately 30 million before the spire holding. We will use this as our number to reach.
Current exchange rate to sell dilithium for Zen: 138
Current cost of a Master Key: 125 Zen
Current Dilithium cost for a Master Key: 138 x 125 = 17,250
Current Exchange rate of Keys to EC: 1.8 Million EC
30 mil / 1.8 = 16.66667. So we need 17 keys to sell.
17 x 17,250 = 293,250
So we needed about 290k Dilithium to buy a console. One console.
Cost of Console in Store: 50,000 FC, 10,000 Dilithium = 60,000 Dilithium
BUT WAIT THERES MORE!!1
1 console provision = 100,000 Dilithium/4 (we will use the simplest provisioning project) = 25,000 dilithium
So now we are at 85,000 Dilithium per console.
BUT WAIT THERES MORE!!!!11
In order to unlock the console someone has to get the spire holding to tier 2. This means we need to do the leveling projects for Tiers 0 and 1, as well as the upgrades for the path 1 and 2. (cheapest way)
Lets just calculate the dilithium cost alone (not even going to include marks or Doffs here, this gets lulzy fast)
25,500 Research XP / 1500 (two projects at once) = 17 20 hour cycles. The first 8 will be tier 0's at 22,500 A cycle
8 * 22500 = 180,000
The other 9 will be at tier 1 with a combined cycle cost in Dilithium of 36000.
9* 36000 = 324000
So on just leveling projects we have spent 504,000 Dilithium
BUT WAIT THERES MORE!!!!!
We have to do the Tier 1 and Tier 2 upgrade projects in there as well.
Since we have that big post of math above, I will post simple figures here.
Cost of a single spire console, graduated by the number of people that contributed to the holding.
1 person = 60,000 + 25000 provision + 932,000 leveling/upgrade = 1.016 MILLION dilithium for the first console, 85000 for each additional
10 people contributing = 85000 + 93200 = 187200 Dilithium per console
100 people contributing = 85000 + 9320 = 94320 Dilithium per console.
Now you might think hey thats kinda cheap if you have a big fleet per console, but here is the problem.
100 people each wanting a dozen or more consoles. Thats thousands of provisions needed. This also assumes all 100 people are actually contributing evenly. As anyone else in a big fleet knows its usually about 10-20 people doing most of it, with the others being much more moderate contributors over time.
In summary: There is zero issue with the cost of the consoles.
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I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
In order to unlock the console someone has to get the spire holding to tier 2.
This is unimportant, since it is a fixed cost divided by the number of consoles that can then be produced (infinity). As such, the additional cost per console is zero, because it is a finite cost divided by an infinite quantity. There is no additional marginal cost per console. If you want to cheat and count fixed costs, you also have to count the costs of the doffs required to even produce consoles, which is as outlandishly expensive as this is. As such, this can be ignored. It is also incorrect to count "50K FC" as "50K minerals" and then simultaneously double-dip by counting Basic Provisioning as an additional cost, since if the person pays for a share in basic provisioning, he will generate 20K FC purely as a byproduct of doing so. If paid purely in minerals, therefore, this cost is reduced to 60K: 10K Base + 50K (Minerals -> FC) +25K (share of basic provisioning) -25K (FC rebate granted for contributing 25K minerals to basic provisioning). All this, of course, assumes you earn your FC purely through mineral dumping, which is quite possibly the worst way of doing so, since it pays such a crappy rate of return. In practice, 25K FC can be had simply through dumping about a hundred junk doffs, worth an EC value of about 1M. This expense can therefore be considered negligible, so if FC is ignored, it works out to 35K.
This is unimportant, since it is a fixed cost divided by the number of consoles that can then be produced (infinity). As such, the additional cost per console is zero, because it is a finite cost divided by an infinite quantity. There is no additional marginal cost per console. If you want to cheat and count fixed costs, you also have to count the costs of the doffs required to even produce consoles, which is as outlandishly expensive as this is. As such, this can be ignored. It is also incorrect to count "50K FC" as "50K minerals" and then simultaneously double-dip by counting Basic Provisioning as an additional cost, since if the person pays for a share in basic provisioning, he will generate 20K FC purely as a byproduct of doing so. If paid purely in minerals, therefore, this cost is reduced to 60K: 10K Base + 50K (Minerals -> FC) +25K (share of basic provisioning) -25K (FC rebate granted for contributing 25K minerals to basic provisioning). All this, of course, assumes you earn your FC purely through mineral dumping, which is quite possibly the worst way of doing so, since it pays such a crappy rate of return. In practice, 25K FC can be had simply through dumping about a hundred junk doffs, worth an EC value of about 1M.
I don't think anybody named it, "Spire" is the default name for an unnamed spire.
be very careful getting too specific, mate. You want to include the cost of your crafting doffs, I can add in the approx 5000 doffs required to get to tier 2
remember I excluded everything but the dilithium, the cost is actually much much higher. I tried to keep it simple for a simple comparison.
commodities alone is in the ballpark of 40 million ec.
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Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
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be very careful getting too specific, mate. You want to include the cost of your crafting doffs, I can add in the approx 5000 doffs required to get to tier 2
I don't, specifically because these are fixed costs, and therefore, have no bearing on the cost of the console: Only marginal cost matters.
commodities alone is in the ballpark of 40 million ec.
Many of those commodities can be had at greatly reduced cost using the KDF 100% off discount. It is irrelevant, anyway: Those are fixed expenses independent of the cost of the console, since the number of consoles that can be outputted from a single spire once completed is infinite. No matter what value of expense you come up with for the Spire, an effectively infinite number of consoles can be crapped out of the spire immediately upon completion, which is far more generous than crafting, where the world can only produce one console per several hours per set of doffs in the world...and yet even here, fixed costs don't matter in assessment.
I don't, specifically because these are fixed costs, and therefore, have no bearing on the cost of the console: Only marginal cost matters.
Many of those commodities can be had at greatly reduced cost using the KDF 100% off discount. It is irrelevant, anyway: Those are fixed expenses independent of the cost of the console, since the number of consoles that can be outputted from a single spire once completed is infinite. No matter what value of expense you come up with for the Spire, an effectively infinite number of consoles can be crapped out of the spire immediately upon completion, which is far more generous than crafting, where the world can only produce one console per several hours per set of doffs in the world...and yet even here, fixed costs don't matter in assessment.
Unfortunately you are forgetting two major pieces of the puzzle.
1. Provisioning
2. The cost of the console.
Those never change. There are ongoing costs.
There are also a finite number of people at the high end in the demand for said gear. Large perhaps, but eventually the rush will slow. And thus will the rush to provision, which will leave the highest contributors left to do them most of the time.
Also, if we want to talk fixed costs, it has been mentioned before (by me actually), that once a crafting farm is set up it costs effectively zero to maintain it. Particle traces are gotten out of clusters during the event hour, artifacts out of a doff mission that requires components out of another doff mission that costs only 2000 ec to run.
I mean is this really all about 4000 or so measly EC to input for the haggle step?
How many consoles sold at 30 mil does it take to break even. About 1, to be quite honest. Everything after that has always been pure profit, hence why no one wants the prices to ever drop. Its literally free money at this stage of the game for anyone doing it regularly.
To break "even" on the fleet holdings (even though you never really can as it is a huge sink) would require hundreds.
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Also, if we want to talk fixed costs, it has been mentioned before (by me actually), that once a crafting farm is set up it costs effectively zero to maintain it. Particle traces are gotten out of clusters during the event hour, artifacts out of a doff mission that requires components out of another doff mission that costs only 2000 ec to run.
Regardless of how you acquire the artifact, there is an opportunity cost to consuming any of those components as opposed to selling them.
How many consoles sold at 30 mil does it take to break even. About 1, to be quite honest. Everything after that has always been pure profit, hence why no one wants the prices to ever drop. Its literally free money at this stage of the game for anyone doing it regularly.
Well, given the market value of 800K for a powered artifact at present, and the fact a non-trash console only occurs 3.5% of the time (6 out of 42 types are valued, ~25% chance of purple), you would need to sell such a console for ~22M just to break even. And nobody is playing this insane troll lottery just to break even. A margin of profit is required to justify the bother. Given the cost of the input materials, a price of 30M is suddenly not unreasonable.
Plus, there is a certain amount of HASSLE involved in doing this, and the profit margins involved in console making are not exactly large, as seen above. Far more people on the lower end of the scale make their livings selling artifacts to crafting factories.
To break "even" on the fleet holdings (even though you never really can as it is a huge sink) would require hundreds.
It nigh-impossible to "break even" on fleet holdings, because the marginal cost of supplying someone a console once the holding exists is zero. As such, competition will force prices down to marginal cost in short order. Anyone attempting to profit from fleet holdings has to compete against NoP Public Service and the like, against which it is impossible to make a profit short of cheating some schmucks on ESD, and hoping nobody calls you on it as you scream on Zone.
OPrimary never sells holding stuff, I didnt mean break even in that respect. I meant moreso that you never get out any of what you put in. It is a pure black hole. Sure you get some stuff to put on your ship but you put in a hell of a lot more than you get out of it, especially if youre a top contributor, etc.
Even when you have the whole fleet outfitted it never really recoups the cost of outfitting everybody. You get a little more damage at a massive cost you can never get back.
To the rest of your post, basically youve outlined something assuming said farmer is going to pay for materials when they dont have to. Regardless of the % chance on outcome you can theoretically over time pay little to nothing for that eventual big hit.
Its not like gambling in that respect, since if you go the slow and long way you literally always make pure profit, even on the green or blue results (right click discard even gets back the original 2-6k you paid for the haggle missions to get the blue commodities to plug in to NADORC) - per toon, so you could literally keep up a sizeable farm speed with a handful of alts, 5-6 artifacts a week at least.
Like I said, there is a slow and almost entirely free way to bag a few million or more every so often, even for a casual. If someone chose to fast track by gobbling up vendor sold artifacts... well as a businessman id say you need to cut your overhead and focus less on volume?
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
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OTo the rest of your post, basically youve outlined something assuming said farmer is going to pay for materials when they dont have to. Regardless of the % chance on outcome you can theoretically over time pay little to nothing for that eventual big hit.
It doesn't matter how the farmer gets the artifact. It doesn't matter if he buys the artifacts, or NADORCs them himself and powers them, running the entire chain himself. The point is that when you consume an 800K artifact, you're out that 800K. It doesn't matter whether you bought it off the Exchange or farmed it yourself...you're out that 800K as opportunity cost. Many, many people, simply do not grasp this concept. It doesn't matter if he bought it or farmed it. At that point, he's now holding an 800K resource, that he can either sell, or gamble. If he sells it, he walks away with that 800K EC. Obviously, if he bought it off the Exchange to begin with, this is a pretty pointless exercise, unless he can resell it for more than he paid. If he uses it, he forfeits the 800K, and gets a console of indeterminate worth...and 96.5% of the time, that worth is "next to nothing". In order for him just to break even, that 3.5% of the time he gets something, it has to sell for at least 23M just to break even (23M * 0.035 = ~800K). People do not play this to break even: a profit margin of a few million must exist to justify taking this risk and time. These factors are what produces the 30M pricetag on a console...and given those numbers above, this is a perfectly fair and reasonable price.
The point being that if I feed in an item worth 800K and get a 4K piece of vendortrash, I've just lost a lot of money doing that. And 96% of the time, this is exactly what happens.
It also doesn't matter what the crafting cost you in time or resources. What it's worth to you does not dictate what it is worth to everyone else. Either there are people willing to pay your price, or there aren't, and you absolutely ARE NOT entitled to guaranteed market conditions that fix prices where you'd like them to stay. If a new console comes out to compete with yours and force you to lower your prices, that's just the nature of a free market. You are not a victim of injustice, and not deserving of any compensation based on your arbitrary price point.
It doesn't matter how the farmer gets the artifact. It doesn't matter if he buys the artifacts, or NADORCs them himself and powers them, running the entire chain himself. The point is that when you consume an 800K artifact, you're out that 800K. It doesn't matter whether you bought it off the Exchange or farmed it yourself...you're out that 800K as opportunity cost. Many, many people, simply do not grasp this concept. It doesn't matter if he bought it or farmed it. At that point, he's now holding an 800K resource, that he can either sell, or gamble. If he sells it, he walks away with that 800K EC. Obviously, if he bought it off the Exchange to begin with, this is a pretty pointless exercise, unless he can resell it for more than he paid. If he uses it, he forfeits the 800K, and gets a console of indeterminate worth...and 96.5% of the time, that worth is "next to nothing". In order for him just to break even, that 3.5% of the time he gets something, it has to sell for at least 23M just to break even (23M * 0.035 = ~800K). People do not play this to break even: a profit margin of a few million must exist to justify taking this risk and time. These factors are what produces the 30M pricetag on a console...and given those numbers above, this is a perfectly fair and reasonable price.
The point being that if I feed in an item worth 800K and get a 4K piece of vendortrash, I've just lost a lot of money doing that. And 96% of the time, this is exactly what happens.
One thing I need to say here actually.
if youre basing the end price on an 800k x .035 you also need to take into account that out of those other 30 something iterations and green/blue combos some do indeed sell for multiple hundreds of thousands and single digit millions as well.
The 30M big one is not the only prize in the pile. So that particular piece of data is a little flawed. If you get a 4 million one step down to sell thats still a big profit on said "opportunity" investment.
The actual figure (having done this casually, mind) is somewhere in the realm of 1/5th of the time you get something worth more than 100k, and 1/15th of the time you get something worth more than the apparent value of what was put in.
Id suggest using those numbers, you might find not only where the actual uninflated value should be, but also where it will end up at when the market stops dropping. VR12s are going to bottom out around 9-12 mil, and VR11/R12s are going to bottom out around 2.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
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It also doesn't matter what the crafting cost you in time or resources. What it's worth to you does not dictate what it is worth to everyone else. Either there are people willing to pay your price, or there aren't, and you absolutely ARE NOT entitled to guaranteed market conditions that fix prices where you'd like them to stay. If a new console comes out to compete with yours and force you to lower your prices, that's just the nature of a free market. You are not a victim of injustice, and not deserving of any compensation based on your arbitrary price point.
I could not have said it better myself.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
It also doesn't matter what the crafting cost you in time or resources. What it's worth to you does not dictate what it is worth to everyone else. Either there are people willing to pay your price, or there aren't, and you absolutely ARE NOT entitled to guaranteed market conditions that fix prices where you'd like them to stay. If a new console comes out to compete with yours and force you to lower your prices, that's just the nature of a free market. You are not a victim of injustice, and not deserving of any compensation based on your arbitrary price point.
because free markets and in game economies are too hard for you console kiddies.
because free markets and in game economies are too hard for you console kiddies.
*sigh*
Maybe I'm using too many words. One last time, then I'm done with you.
Yes, crafting Mk XII consoles is expensive and time-consuming. Does that mean you have an automatic right to 30k+ EC for each of them, forever? NO.
Yes, the fleet consoles might reduce demand and drive down the exchange price on your crafted consoles. Is that somehow unfair to you? NO.
Are people somehow "cheating" or "getting off easy" by buying a fleet console instead of an exchange console, when you had no such option back in the good old days? NO.
You are not a "victim" of something "unjust" simply because you had grown accustomed to that source of EC. Get over it. This is happening.
The major problem is people are assuming just because materials are at a certain cost in the exchange that it must be part of the equation. The alien artifact can be obtained freely as can all the other related materials. So the selling prices of these items is merely what people are willing to pay/charge for them, but really isn't their actual value or cost. The whole reason people assume they need sell them for tons of EC's is clearly for profit and profit alone.
Maybe I'm using too many words. One last time, then I'm done with you.
Yes, crafting Mk XII consoles is expensive and time-consuming. Does that mean you have an automatic right to 30k+ EC for each of them, forever? NO.
Yes, the fleet consoles might reduce demand and drive down the exchange price on your crafted consoles. Is that somehow unfair to you? NO.
Are people somehow "cheating" or "getting off easy" by buying a fleet console instead of an exchange console, when you had no such option back in the good old days? NO.
You are not a "victim" of something "unjust" simply because you had grown accustomed to that source of EC. Get over it. This is happening.
so as I was saying free markets and trading is too much to ask from the average console kiddie.
Now go get your best gear in game and kill few more borgs ...you will need it.
so as I was saying free markets and trading is too much to ask from the average console kiddie.
If you don't understand that this is a textbook example of free market economics driving price fluctuations, you are too ignorant to discuss the subject any further. Bye, now.
*Takes out disruptor and aims at his head*
Sweet ***** please someone kill me now! I don't want to endure this pain and whining of utter pointlessnessesswess. Why o *fires*
On a more serious note, I am sure this ship has long since sailed.
What is there even to discuss, they arent going to change the prices.
But, but Rylan! They ARE too cheap! Because some fleets can get 15% off the dil cost because they took time and resources to finish their dil mines as well!
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
The major problem is people are assuming just because materials are at a certain cost in the exchange that it must be part of the equation. The alien artifact can be obtained freely as can all the other related materials. So the selling prices of these items is merely what people are willing to pay/charge for them, but really isn't their actual value or cost. The whole reason people assume they need sell them for tons of EC's is clearly for profit and profit alone.
They can be taken freely yes, but there is a huge opportunity cost in doing so, as doffingcomrade posted earlier
Looks to me like youre after the spire ones yourself.
Checkmate.
Well, since these are now so cheap and accessible they will be standard equipment for people trying to deck their ship. There is no reason not to get cheap standard equipment that happens to be better than anything else in the game
But, but Rylan! They ARE too cheap! Because some fleets can get 15% off the dil cost because they took time and resources to finish their dil mines as well!
It also costs resources to get that discount. The cost of all these items are not just the fleet credits and dilithium to purchase them. It is the cost to unlock them by leveling the base up and to provision them.
If the cost of the consoles was strictly the 50k fc and the 9k dil then yeah it might be too cheap. If unlocking the right to by the console was too cheap then small fleets wouldn't be whining about not getting their holdings leveled up. Small fleets can get that discount as well.
Comments
A much more sound argument - with that system a player had to be able to competently complete harder missions. The problem with the Mk XII VR consoles is that the *only* way to get them was insanse DOff grinding or EC farming, which arguably encourages Vthe worst aspects of gameplay.
Maaaaan...that is SUCH an original name for your Spire. I mean, you called it SPIRE of all things! My mind is just BLOWN. :P
Could not have said it better myself
Cost of a single spire console, graduated by the number of people that contributed to the holding.
1 person = 60,000 + 25000 provision + 932,000 leveling/upgrade = 1.016 MILLION dilithium for the first console, 85000 for each additional
10 people contributing = 85000 + 93200 = 187200 Dilithium per console
100 people contributing = 85000 + 9320 = 94320 Dilithium per console.
Now you might think hey thats kinda cheap if you have a big fleet per console, but here is the problem.
100 people each wanting a dozen or more consoles. Thats thousands of provisions needed. This also assumes all 100 people are actually contributing evenly. As anyone else in a big fleet knows its usually about 10-20 people doing most of it, with the others being much more moderate contributors over time.
In summary: There is zero issue with the cost of the consoles.
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I didnt name it XD. Im just a lowly fleet officer/contributor, im not a big cheese.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Well whoever did should be praised for it. :P
Also, good math.
I don't think anybody named it, "Spire" is the default name for an unnamed spire.
be very careful getting too specific, mate. You want to include the cost of your crafting doffs, I can add in the approx 5000 doffs required to get to tier 2
remember I excluded everything but the dilithium, the cost is actually much much higher. I tried to keep it simple for a simple comparison.
commodities alone is in the ballpark of 40 million ec.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Many of those commodities can be had at greatly reduced cost using the KDF 100% off discount. It is irrelevant, anyway: Those are fixed expenses independent of the cost of the console, since the number of consoles that can be outputted from a single spire once completed is infinite. No matter what value of expense you come up with for the Spire, an effectively infinite number of consoles can be crapped out of the spire immediately upon completion, which is far more generous than crafting, where the world can only produce one console per several hours per set of doffs in the world...and yet even here, fixed costs don't matter in assessment.
Unfortunately you are forgetting two major pieces of the puzzle.
1. Provisioning
2. The cost of the console.
Those never change. There are ongoing costs.
There are also a finite number of people at the high end in the demand for said gear. Large perhaps, but eventually the rush will slow. And thus will the rush to provision, which will leave the highest contributors left to do them most of the time.
Also, if we want to talk fixed costs, it has been mentioned before (by me actually), that once a crafting farm is set up it costs effectively zero to maintain it. Particle traces are gotten out of clusters during the event hour, artifacts out of a doff mission that requires components out of another doff mission that costs only 2000 ec to run.
I mean is this really all about 4000 or so measly EC to input for the haggle step?
How many consoles sold at 30 mil does it take to break even. About 1, to be quite honest. Everything after that has always been pure profit, hence why no one wants the prices to ever drop. Its literally free money at this stage of the game for anyone doing it regularly.
To break "even" on the fleet holdings (even though you never really can as it is a huge sink) would require hundreds.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
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Regardless of how you acquire the artifact, there is an opportunity cost to consuming any of those components as opposed to selling them.
Well, given the market value of 800K for a powered artifact at present, and the fact a non-trash console only occurs 3.5% of the time (6 out of 42 types are valued, ~25% chance of purple), you would need to sell such a console for ~22M just to break even. And nobody is playing this insane troll lottery just to break even. A margin of profit is required to justify the bother. Given the cost of the input materials, a price of 30M is suddenly not unreasonable.
Plus, there is a certain amount of HASSLE involved in doing this, and the profit margins involved in console making are not exactly large, as seen above. Far more people on the lower end of the scale make their livings selling artifacts to crafting factories.
It nigh-impossible to "break even" on fleet holdings, because the marginal cost of supplying someone a console once the holding exists is zero. As such, competition will force prices down to marginal cost in short order. Anyone attempting to profit from fleet holdings has to compete against NoP Public Service and the like, against which it is impossible to make a profit short of cheating some schmucks on ESD, and hoping nobody calls you on it as you scream on Zone.
OPrimary never sells holding stuff, I didnt mean break even in that respect. I meant moreso that you never get out any of what you put in. It is a pure black hole. Sure you get some stuff to put on your ship but you put in a hell of a lot more than you get out of it, especially if youre a top contributor, etc.
Even when you have the whole fleet outfitted it never really recoups the cost of outfitting everybody. You get a little more damage at a massive cost you can never get back.
To the rest of your post, basically youve outlined something assuming said farmer is going to pay for materials when they dont have to. Regardless of the % chance on outcome you can theoretically over time pay little to nothing for that eventual big hit.
Its not like gambling in that respect, since if you go the slow and long way you literally always make pure profit, even on the green or blue results (right click discard even gets back the original 2-6k you paid for the haggle missions to get the blue commodities to plug in to NADORC) - per toon, so you could literally keep up a sizeable farm speed with a handful of alts, 5-6 artifacts a week at least.
Like I said, there is a slow and almost entirely free way to bag a few million or more every so often, even for a casual. If someone chose to fast track by gobbling up vendor sold artifacts... well as a businessman id say you need to cut your overhead and focus less on volume?
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
The point being that if I feed in an item worth 800K and get a 4K piece of vendortrash, I've just lost a lot of money doing that. And 96% of the time, this is exactly what happens.
One thing I need to say here actually.
if youre basing the end price on an 800k x .035 you also need to take into account that out of those other 30 something iterations and green/blue combos some do indeed sell for multiple hundreds of thousands and single digit millions as well.
The 30M big one is not the only prize in the pile. So that particular piece of data is a little flawed. If you get a 4 million one step down to sell thats still a big profit on said "opportunity" investment.
The actual figure (having done this casually, mind) is somewhere in the realm of 1/5th of the time you get something worth more than 100k, and 1/15th of the time you get something worth more than the apparent value of what was put in.
Id suggest using those numbers, you might find not only where the actual uninflated value should be, but also where it will end up at when the market stops dropping. VR12s are going to bottom out around 9-12 mil, and VR11/R12s are going to bottom out around 2.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I could not have said it better myself.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
because free markets and in game economies are too hard for you console kiddies.
*sigh*
Maybe I'm using too many words. One last time, then I'm done with you.
Yes, crafting Mk XII consoles is expensive and time-consuming. Does that mean you have an automatic right to 30k+ EC for each of them, forever? NO.
Yes, the fleet consoles might reduce demand and drive down the exchange price on your crafted consoles. Is that somehow unfair to you? NO.
Are people somehow "cheating" or "getting off easy" by buying a fleet console instead of an exchange console, when you had no such option back in the good old days? NO.
You are not a "victim" of something "unjust" simply because you had grown accustomed to that source of EC. Get over it. This is happening.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vpE6uMJ37dk/UOScrne47aI/AAAAAAAAEL4/Ki-4IWO-SoY/s1600/ron-paul.gif
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
so as I was saying free markets and trading is too much to ask from the average console kiddie.
Now go get your best gear in game and kill few more borgs ...you will need it.
What is there even to discuss, they arent going to change the prices.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
If you don't understand that this is a textbook example of free market economics driving price fluctuations, you are too ignorant to discuss the subject any further. Bye, now.
*Takes out disruptor and aims at his head*
Sweet ***** please someone kill me now! I don't want to endure this pain and whining of utter pointlessnessesswess. Why o *fires*
But, but Rylan! They ARE too cheap! Because some fleets can get 15% off the dil cost because they took time and resources to finish their dil mines as well!
They can be taken freely yes, but there is a huge opportunity cost in doing so, as doffingcomrade posted earlier
Well, since these are now so cheap and accessible they will be standard equipment for people trying to deck their ship. There is no reason not to get cheap standard equipment that happens to be better than anything else in the game
It also costs resources to get that discount. The cost of all these items are not just the fleet credits and dilithium to purchase them. It is the cost to unlock them by leveling the base up and to provision them.
If the cost of the consoles was strictly the 50k fc and the 9k dil then yeah it might be too cheap. If unlocking the right to by the console was too cheap then small fleets wouldn't be whining about not getting their holdings leveled up. Small fleets can get that discount as well.
It is about certain players angry they are losing their power over other players, no matter how slight that may have been.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus