There are quite a few groups rolling around that use it, but something our fleet learned tonight in the queues, is that if we split up and force the OPFOR to fight on multiple fronts, its not so easy to just spam the wells down on someone. (yeah sure they will focus down one sacrifical lamb, meanwhile they just burned up their cheese on ONE person leaving four to tear them apart)
We still lost that match 15-4 (i think was the score), but if we hadnt split up it was a guaranteed 15-0 wipeout.
The absolute worst thing you could be doing vs teams that do this, is sit in the "fedball"
GW, subnuke, iso, blam dead... add a few mines and a SIC for lulz?
I get a hoot out of it on my romulans, who can always escape the black ball of death with a singularity jump, but the other races, especially in cruisers (poor Victoria got owned in mentioned match ), end up looking like pinballs bouncing between 2 or 3 of them.
The reality is, Science skills have relevance again, after we had gotten so used to them being utter jokes. A well specced and timed gravity well is absolutely lethal now. And it should be.
heh,and with the new Tykens DOFF stacking a rift on a well with some power syphon and the rest of the goodies almost makes conventional weapons a waste of space.
Star trek is mostly space magic now, neverwinter in space.
when i spend the vast majority of a match not moving in a manner of my choosing, but instead spend it being pulled from 1 GW to another, i consider that match well and truly ruined. this is not a rare occurrence.
You can get away from gravity well and tychen's rift. Evasive maneuvers will work sometimes. Emergency power to engines is better. Then of course there is the Impulse Capacitance Cell, which the cool kids will dismiss as a "pay to win" console. :rolleyes:
If you don't want to spare room for these abilities in your uber-1337 DPS min-maxer build...honestly, cry me a river. Tough noogies.
So basically those in the thread posting ideas to break the snares want to ensure the only counter for the spam of this TRIBBLE is to make your ship completely unable to do damage and beat you anyway.
I see. Ok i can run from you all day but now I cant put a damn dent in your megashields or hull either.
Lose lose.
The counters only go so far until you get "certain fleet name redacted" spamming the TRIBBLE nonstop with tifs and other cheese on top of it.
Right.
Edit to add: This hasnt changed my position on liking the new viability of sci, but naturally a select few destroy any benefit as a whole by turning it into a LOLWINSPAM cheese fest garbage truck.
So whatever. I guess ill just queue on my rom vapers a little more often. More roms in pvp is what we need. I stomped the TRIBBLE out of one of those "fleet name redacted" cheesers last night with a rom, because roms actually have the tools to counter it with ease.
Romulans online continues. YAY
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Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
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So basically those in the thread posting ideas to break the snares want to ensure the only counter for the spam of this TRIBBLE is to make your ship completely unable to do damage and beat you anyway.
False dichotomy. You may lose a few points of DPS to spec yourself for countering holds, but that's hardly "completely unable to do damage". :rolleyes:
False dichotomy. You may lose a few points of DPS to spec yourself for countering holds, but that's hardly "completely unable to do damage". :rolleyes:
Absolutely true when the damage/resist cross section in this game is so razor thin at capped gear
Resilient elite fleet shields turn 10000 DPS specs into 250 DPS specs generally (5 percent bleed and 50% resistances in a quick math calc)
Debuffs and attack patterns only increase it so much, then you factor in self heals and cross heals.
A loss of 5 percent damage means the fight when its a tanker vs a damage spec and you know it..
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Absolutely true when the damage/resist cross section in this game is so razor thin at capped gear
A loss of 5 percent damage means the fight when its a tanker vs a damage spec and you know it..
It can mean the difference. Doesn't mean it always does. And that is the sort of compromise you have to make to deal with varied tactics. You don't get to declare some game mechanic "broken" simply because your one-trick pony build can't contend with it.
It can mean the difference. Doesn't mean it always does. And that is the sort of compromise you have to make to deal with varied tactics. You don't get to declare some game mechanic "broken" simply because your one-trick pony build can't contend with it.
The cheese spam gw builds being used are the one trick ponies frankly.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
The cheese spam gw builds being used are the one trick ponies frankly.
Indeed they are, but no less so than the cookie-cutter "all DHC up front, all turrets in the rear, all energy weapon consoles, multiple attack patterns and tactical team" escort build.
If you're going to specialize to the exclusion of other scenarios, you must accept that you will not be equipped to deal with certain things.
Indeed they are, but no less so than the cookie-cutter "all DHC up front, all turrets in the rear, all energy weapon consoles, multiple attack patterns and tactical team" escort build.
If you're going to specialize to the exclusion of other scenarios, you must accept that you will not be equipped to deal with certain things.
I really hope your not insinuating my escorts are cookie cutter, since i also spec into heavy sci heal powers for crosshealing. ( i can see the corrolation with dhcs and attack patterns, but you obviously dont know i use FAE and fleet dhelans in pvp, not full on all tac scorts that are squishy and can only do damage and nothing else.)
Most of my main pvp ships are burst strikers and medics honestly. Its all too common that my healing numbers are higher than my damage ones and often greatly so.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I really hope your not insinuating my escorts are cookie cutter, since i also spec into heavy sci heal powers for crosshealing. ( i can see the corrolation with dhcs and attack patterns, but you obviously dont know i use FAE and fleet dhelans in pvp, not full on all tac scorts that are squishy and can only do damage and nothing else.)
Most of my main pvp ships are burst strikers and medics honestly. Its all too common that my healing numbers are higher than my damage ones and often greatly so.
Obviously I don't have your personal builds committed to memory, but the point stands. The more you specialize in one (or two) areas, the more you give up in other areas. The game would be a boring failure if a "very bestest at all the things!" build were possible.
Fixed it for you, since youre apparently trying to tell us what we are saying.
The popularity of a build is irrelevant. It does not matter how many people enjoy using it, "breaking" it's dominance does not automatically indicate a problem.
the only reliable way to get away from a GW is APO, nothing else works, EPtE and evesive dont do squat if you have been pulled in. not everything can slot APO, there really is nothing they can do but enjoy the ride. when theres multiple ships useing it, with multiple doffs, there is full up time of multiple GW over the entire battlefield. nothing can compensate for that, let alone counter it. there woulds have to be a doff that activates APO aftershocks the same way. :rolleyes: when you spend all that time stuck or trying to escape, you arent dealing damage, your stuck on the defensive, your defense score is gone and your an incredibly easy target.
Don't forget Aux to Dampers. I know that running that power is blasphemy for the Aux2Batt builds, but no other power counters GW so well. Increased kinetic resist, immunity to the repel (the 'pull') and a nice turn boost and the short CD is great.
Don't forget Aux to Dampers. I know that running that power is blasphemy for the Aux2Batt builds, but no other power counters GW so well. Increased kinetic resist, immunity to the repel (the 'pull') and a nice turn boost.
ah yes that as well, but like brought up before the opportunity cost of these 'counters' are too high to consider. your just as useless in the GW as you are building the hard counter into your ship.
ah yes that as well, but like brought up before the opportunity cost of these 'counters' are too high to consider. your just as useless in the GW as you are building the hard counter into your ship.
It might seem high, but considering the skill cost for a gravity well, it is fine. You want unfair in the skill tree? Starship Subsystem Repair versus Starship Subspace Decompiler.
With the correct doff, Aux2Damp actually gives +35 resistAll, for 21 seconds, which can cycle with Aux2Sif for a similar boost. This gives full uptime on that resist, on top of the regular benefits. Food for thought.
It just excludes Aux2Bat builds, which, if you believe that's the only possible way to run a ship, would make it a non-option. On some ships, I do like it, though.
the only reliable way to get away from a GW is APO, nothing else works, EPtE and evesive dont do squat if you have been pulled in. not everything can slot APO, there really is nothing they can do but enjoy the ride. when theres multiple ships useing it, with multiple doffs, there is full up time of multiple GW over the entire battlefield. nothing can compensate for that, let alone counter it. there woulds have to be a doff that activates APO aftershocks the same way. :rolleyes: when you spend all that time stuck or trying to escape, you arent dealing damage, your stuck on the defensive, your defense score is gone and your an incredibly easy target.
You left out Rommy Jumps, Jump Console, PH, Deut, max engine power preset, eng battery, aux2damp, to can be used in some combination. JHAS console is a high end team counter.
There are more than 1 type of doffs to lower APO's (and other debuff coutners) cooldown that people have used/abused for long while now. I have seen players chain APO and PH b/c of those doffs. You really want to start going after doffs on this one? Though to be fair I use aux2batt w/mine.
People are noticing this b/c of 2 reasons, the 1st being the recent damage change, the 2nd people in general went to slower ships that make it easier to apply debuffs vs out running them. W/epte changes speed became a huge defense vs a debuff who didn't use epte themselves.
Even w/the GW changes more than 1 debuff is needed to keep someone using an Escort in a GW, including tb, vm, ss, ewp, snb, etc. I'll even pin someone in a GW when they're against an object w/a Space Wall. People should just be glad I haven't bothered to buy a SS doff off the exchange for my new main toon.
I'll tell you what, all that said I'll agree Sci spam via doffs needs toning down when you agree the cooldowns that reduce their counters get nerfed as well, deal?
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All you damn pvpers always want TRIBBLE needed. Before when gravity well sucked you all said it and tykens rift were pointless now you say its too op. MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MINDS YOU WHINERS!! I swear its the same ppl saying this that complained they couldn't kill cruisers with their escorts and now can crit anything through their RSP and blow em up now and there proud of it and won't talk about how op their alpha strike is and how easy it is to use it if you have eyes and a brain! Keep whining every time something gets added or changed and that all the life of this game will ever be is flipflopping and reversing and redoing changes so you don't have to have any skill or have to think to counter anything in PvP (btw which mean player vs player. Yes players are people not computers. People come up with new different and interesting ideas and builds. Accept it.) and escorts can continue to prevail no matter what bc theyll have the only firepower.
Edit:
That's may have been too strong. Not "all you damn pvpers" but most. Especially the hypocrit escorts that complain about cruisers with aux2batt being too damaging or too hard to kill by yourself or whatever but you brag about how you can crit kill someone through an RSP in 5 seconds. TRIBBLE you guys imma goin home...
For everyone that's complaining about this ability being OP or that one being OP, they're all OP. Everything in STO is OP. DPS OP, healing is OP, FaW is OP, you name it. It's best to get rid of all boff/captain abilities in favor of shared abilities (i.e. evasive, ramming, etc) and manual shield distribution as your survival tools. You want to heal your shields? Cycle power to shields or pop a battery, or do both. The same goes for weapons and engines. Then the real challenge begins. Make the best use of your 200+ points of power.
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
Gravity well is completely ruining PVP for me. There are more gravity wells being deployed than torpedoes these days. I spend the entire match sitting in gravity wells. I can't see any of the battle because I'm surrounded by purple. These gravity wells need to be toned down a bit IMO.
I had a rough day when they finally fixed gw3. That said, I actually put points into resist (about 6 if memory serves), and now gw3 can kiss my TRIBBLE
Gonna take a shower. Slip into something more comfortable. Grab my lube bottle. Log in. I'll be that guy..... in the science ship.... big deflector.....ready to suck you..... into oblivion. My Gravity Well brings all the boys to the yard. Cuz my subnuke......is better than yours...my subnuke..... just sayin. :P
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
I am surprised no one has called anyone out yet on the inertial dampeners idea.
You cant spec enough into ID to counteract anyone with gravitons greater than about 150-175 or higher. (which is actually ridiculously easy to get to, 9 points plus a good deflector and youre to 125 already)
Its like flowcaps and insulators, the counter isnt effective enough against the aggressor if they have gone all out, even if you go all out on the counter (at the expense of a lot of other things to do it).
You still need to blow an additional power (or two) plus add engine power to even start to move out of it.
I was testing this with my Brel controller/gravwell spammer. A fleetmate was my guinea pig and went all out on ID, and I was still able to control him effectively after the recent change. Especially early when I still had the subnuke available to blast off the APO or EPtE.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
You left out Rommy Jumps, Jump Console, PH, Deut, max engine power preset, eng battery, aux2damp, to can be used in some combination. JHAS console is a high end team counter.
There are more than 1 type of doffs to lower APO's (and other debuff coutners) cooldown that people have used/abused for long while now. I have seen players chain APO and PH b/c of those doffs. You really want to start going after doffs on this one? Though to be fair I use aux2batt w/mine.
People are noticing this b/c of 2 reasons, the 1st being the recent damage change, the 2nd people in general went to slower ships that make it easier to apply debuffs vs out running them. W/epte changes speed became a huge defense vs a debuff who didn't use epte themselves.
Even w/the GW changes more than 1 debuff is needed to keep someone using an Escort in a GW, including tb, vm, ss, ewp, snb, etc. I'll even pin someone in a GW when they're against an object w/a Space Wall. People should just be glad I haven't bothered to buy a SS doff off the exchange for my new main toon.
I'll tell you what, all that said I'll agree Sci spam via doffs needs toning down when you agree the cooldowns that reduce their counters get nerfed as well, deal?
the uptime to counters or the sacrifice in effectiveness to run them, or not even having a choice with a lot of ships vs the doff spawning more and more of them has passed a tiping point. if i can see in my field of vision 5 GW, thats a match that has gone to hell no mater what you bring. the aftershock doff is the main problem imo. you would need 5 coordinated LTC sci ships to do that without it, 2 or 3 can do it with ease now
All you damn pvpers always want TRIBBLE needed. Before when gravity well sucked you all said it and tykens rift were pointless now you say its too op. MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MINDS YOU WHINERS!! I swear its the same ppl saying this that complained they couldn't kill cruisers with their escorts and now can crit anything through their RSP and blow em up now and there proud of it and won't talk about how op their alpha strike is and how easy it is to use it if you have eyes and a brain! Keep whining every time something gets added or changed and that all the life of this game will ever be is flipflopping and reversing and redoing changes so you don't have to have any skill or have to think to counter anything in PvP (btw which mean player vs player. Yes players are people not computers. People come up with new different and interesting ideas and builds. Accept it.) and escorts can continue to prevail no matter what bc theyll have the only firepower.
Edit:
That's may have been too strong. Not "all you damn pvpers" but most. Especially the hypocrit escorts that complain about cruisers with aux2batt being too damaging or too hard to kill by yourself or whatever but you brag about how you can crit kill someone through an RSP in 5 seconds. TRIBBLE you guys imma goin home...
if your going to weigh in, especially with self righteous indignation, at least be aware of the skills history. since proboly the skill tree change, all the way back in F2P launch, the way this skill used aux and sci skill specing was BUGED, not underpowered, not overpowered, it was behaving wrong to the point that it did next to nothing. especially TR, that literally did nothing.
this wasn't just a simple buff or nerf, it was a fix in the code which then required a total reevaluation of magnitudes. they said they had to tone it down some, it was quite out of control when it actually worked. whats in game now is a practically untested in the true field of battle skill that was basically best guess pve tested and released hoping it wasn't to weak or too out of hand.
Comments
heh,and with the new Tykens DOFF stacking a rift on a well with some power syphon and the rest of the goodies almost makes conventional weapons a waste of space.
Star trek is mostly space magic now, neverwinter in space.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
If you don't want to spare room for these abilities in your uber-1337 DPS min-maxer build...honestly, cry me a river. Tough noogies.
Inertial Dampers skill points
Singularity Jump
Attack Pattern Omega
Emergency Power to Engines
Aux-to-Dampeners
Engine Battery
Deuterium Burn
Red Matter Capacitor
Subspace Jumper console
I see. Ok i can run from you all day but now I cant put a damn dent in your megashields or hull either.
Lose lose.
The counters only go so far until you get "certain fleet name redacted" spamming the TRIBBLE nonstop with tifs and other cheese on top of it.
Right.
Edit to add: This hasnt changed my position on liking the new viability of sci, but naturally a select few destroy any benefit as a whole by turning it into a LOLWINSPAM cheese fest garbage truck.
So whatever. I guess ill just queue on my rom vapers a little more often. More roms in pvp is what we need. I stomped the TRIBBLE out of one of those "fleet name redacted" cheesers last night with a rom, because roms actually have the tools to counter it with ease.
Romulans online continues. YAY
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
False dichotomy. You may lose a few points of DPS to spec yourself for countering holds, but that's hardly "completely unable to do damage". :rolleyes:
Absolutely true when the damage/resist cross section in this game is so razor thin at capped gear
Resilient elite fleet shields turn 10000 DPS specs into 250 DPS specs generally (5 percent bleed and 50% resistances in a quick math calc)
Debuffs and attack patterns only increase it so much, then you factor in self heals and cross heals.
A loss of 5 percent damage means the fight when its a tanker vs a damage spec and you know it..
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
It can mean the difference. Doesn't mean it always does. And that is the sort of compromise you have to make to deal with varied tactics. You don't get to declare some game mechanic "broken" simply because your one-trick pony build can't contend with it.
The cheese spam gw builds being used are the one trick ponies frankly.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Indeed they are, but no less so than the cookie-cutter "all DHC up front, all turrets in the rear, all energy weapon consoles, multiple attack patterns and tactical team" escort build.
If you're going to specialize to the exclusion of other scenarios, you must accept that you will not be equipped to deal with certain things.
I really hope your not insinuating my escorts are cookie cutter, since i also spec into heavy sci heal powers for crosshealing. ( i can see the corrolation with dhcs and attack patterns, but you obviously dont know i use FAE and fleet dhelans in pvp, not full on all tac scorts that are squishy and can only do damage and nothing else.)
Most of my main pvp ships are burst strikers and medics honestly. Its all too common that my healing numbers are higher than my damage ones and often greatly so.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
/s
Fixed it for you, since youre apparently trying to tell us what we are saying.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Obviously I don't have your personal builds committed to memory, but the point stands. The more you specialize in one (or two) areas, the more you give up in other areas. The game would be a boring failure if a "very bestest at all the things!" build were possible.
Exactly.
The popularity of a build is irrelevant. It does not matter how many people enjoy using it, "breaking" it's dominance does not automatically indicate a problem.
ah yes that as well, but like brought up before the opportunity cost of these 'counters' are too high to consider. your just as useless in the GW as you are building the hard counter into your ship.
It might seem high, but considering the skill cost for a gravity well, it is fine. You want unfair in the skill tree? Starship Subsystem Repair versus Starship Subspace Decompiler.
It just excludes Aux2Bat builds, which, if you believe that's the only possible way to run a ship, would make it a non-option. On some ships, I do like it, though.
You left out Rommy Jumps, Jump Console, PH, Deut, max engine power preset, eng battery, aux2damp, to can be used in some combination. JHAS console is a high end team counter.
There are more than 1 type of doffs to lower APO's (and other debuff coutners) cooldown that people have used/abused for long while now. I have seen players chain APO and PH b/c of those doffs. You really want to start going after doffs on this one? Though to be fair I use aux2batt w/mine.
People are noticing this b/c of 2 reasons, the 1st being the recent damage change, the 2nd people in general went to slower ships that make it easier to apply debuffs vs out running them. W/epte changes speed became a huge defense vs a debuff who didn't use epte themselves.
Even w/the GW changes more than 1 debuff is needed to keep someone using an Escort in a GW, including tb, vm, ss, ewp, snb, etc. I'll even pin someone in a GW when they're against an object w/a Space Wall. People should just be glad I haven't bothered to buy a SS doff off the exchange for my new main toon.
I'll tell you what, all that said I'll agree Sci spam via doffs needs toning down when you agree the cooldowns that reduce their counters get nerfed as well, deal?
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Edit:
That's may have been too strong. Not "all you damn pvpers" but most. Especially the hypocrit escorts that complain about cruisers with aux2batt being too damaging or too hard to kill by yourself or whatever but you brag about how you can crit kill someone through an RSP in 5 seconds. TRIBBLE you guys imma goin home...
I had a rough day when they finally fixed gw3. That said, I actually put points into resist (about 6 if memory serves), and now gw3 can kiss my TRIBBLE
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Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
You cant spec enough into ID to counteract anyone with gravitons greater than about 150-175 or higher. (which is actually ridiculously easy to get to, 9 points plus a good deflector and youre to 125 already)
Its like flowcaps and insulators, the counter isnt effective enough against the aggressor if they have gone all out, even if you go all out on the counter (at the expense of a lot of other things to do it).
You still need to blow an additional power (or two) plus add engine power to even start to move out of it.
I was testing this with my Brel controller/gravwell spammer. A fleetmate was my guinea pig and went all out on ID, and I was still able to control him effectively after the recent change. Especially early when I still had the subnuke available to blast off the APO or EPtE.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
the uptime to counters or the sacrifice in effectiveness to run them, or not even having a choice with a lot of ships vs the doff spawning more and more of them has passed a tiping point. if i can see in my field of vision 5 GW, thats a match that has gone to hell no mater what you bring. the aftershock doff is the main problem imo. you would need 5 coordinated LTC sci ships to do that without it, 2 or 3 can do it with ease now
if your going to weigh in, especially with self righteous indignation, at least be aware of the skills history. since proboly the skill tree change, all the way back in F2P launch, the way this skill used aux and sci skill specing was BUGED, not underpowered, not overpowered, it was behaving wrong to the point that it did next to nothing. especially TR, that literally did nothing.
this wasn't just a simple buff or nerf, it was a fix in the code which then required a total reevaluation of magnitudes. they said they had to tone it down some, it was quite out of control when it actually worked. whats in game now is a practically untested in the true field of battle skill that was basically best guess pve tested and released hoping it wasn't to weak or too out of hand.
well, its a little to out of hand.