It seems like you are willing to dish out criticism but criticize the devs or yourself and you get bent out of shape. I don't think that's how forum works. Guess we agree to disagree.
Actually it's more the cases of how much people have criticized the Devs right now without waiting. I remember the numerous complaints about the Romulan Republic not being 'True Romulans' and how D'tan and his movement was a supposedly 'Bad idea'.
I think by now we can agree that has been proven wrong in many areas.
So what I pointed out was instead of complaining based on a few screenshots and artwork releases...wait till we know the full story.
Also, I was not the one citing an Internet Meme in a poor attempt to critique my words. You could of quoted the whole of what I said and either took it apart bit by bit with logical arguments or pointed where you believe you are right. Instead, you focused on one line and chosen to mock it with a picture (again linking a poor internet meme). I would like to see you refute anything I said logically without burying yourself in circular logic and thereby proving my main point correct.
That main point being again that NONE of us knows what Cryptic is planning truly for Seasons 8 and how the story with The Voth plays out. Until we do, I am holding judgement beyond liking what I see and many others should do the same.
You know...I really can't find the ability to take you seriously right now. Reason is that instead of refuting or attempting to refute anything I say...you'd rather use an internet meme that is completely irrelevant to the conversation save for my choice of words to mock me through sarcasm.
I'd have to reread all your previous posts in this thread topic to see which way you are leaning again before I comment as to your exact psychological and social conditioning reasons why you would do such.
The Meme used as a parry to your, if i may somewhat inflammatory comment in an already controversial thread was irrelevant to the discussion; however, it was quite relevant to the tone of your words (caps never helps people take you seriously).
The Meme used as a parry to your, if i may somewhat inflammatory comment in an already controversial thread was irrelevant to the discussion; however, it was quite relevant to the tone of your words (caps never helps people take you seriously).
Actually, it is relevant in that many of the complaints fall into three main camps:
Legitimate concerns about the direction of Season 8 due to similarities between The Voth as we see them being done up and other franchises/IP representations of the same idea.
"Dinosaurs are kids stuff. We are making a Saturday Morning Cartoon out of Star Trek!"
"This is not Trek! Gene is rolling in his grave!"
Now let me take each of these apart.
Camp 1: Legit concerns about the direction and overlap with other IPs.
This Camp has a larger basis for concern but at the same time it also is a weak case. Reason is that I had the opportunity to talk to and question one of the top writers for the Doctor Who series when he came to visit the local Anime Convention in 2010/2011. He basically pointed out that the secret to getting published in anything is that everything has been done before, the secret is in the presentation. I will dig up his name later so you can actually know WHO I talked too at the convention (it was a panel on writing for TV).
Camp 2: The Dinosaurs are for Kids. STO is becoming a Saturday Morning Cartoon!
I am not going to make a broad stroke but to ask those who may think like this if they watched Star Trek: The Animated Series or were aware there was a Star Trek Manga around a few years ago?
Camp 3: "The Guardians of What is Trek!"
This camp not only has the weakest arguments out of the three but relies on the assumptions that THEY know what is best for the series from their Armchairs. No, if any of these can cite that they either worked with or are related in anyway to the Roddenberry's or worked on ANY of the Star Trek series in a Writer or Production Staff role, I will happily accept your credentials and apologize. Otherwise, stop trying to assume you know what is best. What you have is an opinion just like everyone else.
That main point being again that NONE of us knows what Cryptic is planning truly for Seasons 8 and how the story with The Voth plays out. Until we do, I am holding judgement beyond liking what I see and many others should do the same.
We already have a good idea what is planned for Season 8 and beyond. Some of it is already on Tribble if you can check it out, it's only available to gold subscribers and lifetimers right now. Another Rep grind, another fleet holding grind, another lockbox, another doff pack, etc. As far as how the story with the Voth plays out I may check it out but I have an aversion to what we've seen so far. That's my opinion.
Actually, it is relevant in that many of the complaints fall into three main camps:
Legitimate concerns about the direction of Season 8 due to similarities between The Voth as we see them being done up and other franchises/IP representations of the same idea.
"Dinosaurs are kids stuff. We are making a Saturday Morning Cartoon out of Star Trek!"
"This is not Trek! Gene is rolling in his grave!"
Now let me take each of these apart.
Camp 1: Legit concerns about the direction and overlap with other IPs.
This Camp has a larger basis for concern but at the same time it also is a weak case. Reason is that I had the opportunity to talk to and question one of the top writers for the Doctor Who series when he came to visit the local Anime Convention in 2010/2011. He basically pointed out that the secret to getting published in anything is that everything has been done before, the secret is in the presentation. I will dig up his name later so you can actually know WHO I talked too at the convention (it was a panel on writing for TV).
Camp 2: The Dinosaurs are for Kids. STO is becoming a Saturday Morning Cartoon!
I am not going to make a broad stroke but to ask those who may think like this if they watched Star Trek: The Animated Series or were aware there was a Star Trek Manga around a few years ago?
Camp 3: "The Guardians of What is Trek!"
This camp not only has the weakest arguments out of the three but relies on the assumptions that THEY know what is best for the series from their Armchairs. No, if any of these can cite that they either worked with or are related in anyway to the Roddenberry's or worked on ANY of the Star Trek series in a Writer or Production Staff role, I will happily accept your credentials and apologize. Otherwise, stop trying to assume you know what is best. What you have is an opinion just like everyone else.
I think I'm in the fourth camp (and that some of the people here may be as well when they give it some thought):
4. Dinosaurs with lasers are cool but this is a LOT of work spent on an environment that we'll be spending a lot of time in that isn't familiar.
I don't think the idea is awful. I think the execution and art direction are distinctive and breath taking. I think Trek is absolutely big enough to contain something like this in it.
But we are looking at something that is far enough out there that it loses specialness with reuse and where extended time spent there is extended time away from the core IP setting.
So I'd rather see the game focus on subtle details and I believe subtle details are what will give the game longevity whereas big, sweeping stuff like this is inherently better suited to non-repeatable, limited duration content.
Repeatable stuff in the game I think needs to be more mundane (because it's going to be repeated ideally) but mundane in the most polished and grand sense of the word.
Turn Deep Space Nine into an adventure zone with a reputation. Add all the decks. Add brawling activities and events around the station and instanced missions that are launched with cut scenes.
Create a durable and adaptable ship interior for each faction with features like alternate room states including damaged corridors, Sickbay in different states, warp core with various levels of damage and a breach sealing mechanic, etc. and have two or three content designers just plug away designing average missions and content that takes place on a small, incredibly polished staging area with lots of adaptability.
And when you do that, then Greek gods and laser dinosaurs will be okay as the big updates because we'll have polished, steady "normal" content as the baseline.
If we spend all of our time in mindblowing, IP-bending scenarios, there is no baseline for the IP and the content you're creating doesn't lend itself to mass produced budget content. Whereas if you have highly adaptive, well polished "playsets" that reflect the IP, there's that sense of home base to go back to that will ground the crazy Voth in a Dyson Sphere stuff more.
I think you can groom people to WANT that kind of thing but that players aren't being properly primed by showing them what "normal" Star Trek adventures look like inbetween epic releases. Whereas if I'd just spend the last 10 missions inside my ship, I might be more psychologically primed to go explore a Dyson Sphere.
I think the problem here is not the inclusion of dinosaurs in general. I think the problem is ONLY the T-Rex. I bet a lot of Foundry authors would even love having some generic looking raptors as additional wildlife to add variety, but the T-Rex is just waaaaay too iconic to Earth's prehistoric history to use it. And those two head-mounted laser-cannons aren't helping either, as it just screams "DinoRiders", making it feel even LESS original and, to be blunt, desperate.
And this here, in a nutshell, should explain what as got a number of players somewhat pissed. Having the Voth in-game is fine. Having them use the Equivalent of T-Rexes with mounted Laser Cannons on them? Stretches things just on the far edge of what is "Believable" for Trek.
I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
Actually it's more the cases of how much people have criticized the Devs right now without waiting. I remember the numerous complaints about the Romulan Republic not being 'True Romulans' and how D'tan and his movement was a supposedly 'Bad idea'.
I think by now we can agree that has been proven wrong in many areas.
So what I pointed out was instead of complaining based on a few screenshots and artwork releases...wait till we know the full story.
Also, I was not the one citing an Internet Meme in a poor attempt to critique my words. You could of quoted the whole of what I said and either took it apart bit by bit with logical arguments or pointed where you believe you are right. Instead, you focused on one line and chosen to mock it with a picture (again linking a poor internet meme). I would like to see you refute anything I said logically without burying yourself in circular logic and thereby proving my main point correct.
That main point being again that NONE of us knows what Cryptic is planning truly for Seasons 8 and how the story with The Voth plays out. Until we do, I am holding judgement beyond liking what I see and many others should do the same.
I hope im not jumping the gun, but heck yeah...my Caitian needs a pet t-rex with lasers for ground missions!! Or in my case, I bet a Smilodon would be better =^.^= "We need DinoZord power now!"
Now we will just need, chainsaws, rocket launchers and an electric guitar to be able to say we have it all in STO! :P ...or Chuck Norris driving Voltron...what? ^^; I have a wild imagination too!
Leaving aside the question of appropriateness to Trek for a moment,, it looks as though the Voth are shaping up to be a very different and very unique ground enemy. Bringing some much needed spice to ground combat is only a good thing in my opinion - I'll take dinosaurs and mechs over an Ensign, Lieutenant, Commander and Captain which have a couple of different abilities each and all act pretty much the same.
Although... making the big guy just a little less obvious in the T-Rex resemblance might be a good idea. Give him some large spines on his back or something. :P
Ummmm, this game takes place in space.. Ground is a sad sad after thought.. The engine and execution are flawed likely beyond repair.. I beam down only when I MUST and wish I could beam down a torpedo or 50 in my place..
However I do look forward to SOMETHING new bring on the Voth and tie them into being enemies with the ancient Iconians... They are old enough and advanced enough to play the part of the enemy that drove the Iconians out...:D
Having them use the Equivalent of T-Rexes with mounted Laser Cannons on them? Stretches things just on the far edge of what is "Believable" for Trek.
So having space amoeba that shoot lasers out of their TRIBBLE is aceptable, having space whales is acceptable, and having cities made on the spouse of strange glowing space jelly is believable for Star Trek, but having reptiles the size of dinosaurs used for shock troops with mounted weapons to use as siege weapons and weapons for defense while they close the distance isn't believable.
You and I have a much different idea of what is believable in Star Trek.
What's funny is that the Voth weren't even a choice let alone a winner. But here we are...
They first talked about the Voth well over a year before that poll, and would have been in the planning and development stage well before the poll. The Voth have been a long term plan for them.
should they not have added species 8472, or the hirogen to the game at launch either because they were not on that poll? They did not include the Voth because they knew they were already using them because they fit into their story.
Now that I think about it, it's all your fault guys, as you voted for "more Voyager" in one of the Cryptic polls, some time ago. Voyager wasn't that good to begin with, and now Cryptic is gonna take its plot(holes) to extreme...
Reading your posts so far, I start wondering which might have been your favorite ST series...
On the other hand, I start to think blassreiterus might be right.
Back to topic, I think this looks quite interesting to me.
And looking at Gorn, Jem'Hadar and such, this makes sense to me.
I just hope there's a little more exploration to be found in the dyson sphere.
"I came from a time long gone, saw many other times...
But I'm still a mere human."
Vice Admiral Chris Curtiss, Temporal Ambassador
Turn Deep Space Nine into an adventure zone with a reputation. Add all the decks. Add brawling activities and events around the station and instanced missions that are launched with cut scenes.
Create a durable and adaptable ship interior for each faction with features like alternate room states including damaged corridors, Sickbay in different states, warp core with various levels of damage and a breach sealing mechanic, etc. and have two or three content designers just plug away designing average missions and content that takes place on a small, incredibly polished staging area with lots of adaptability.
As an added thing to this, I think that each faction should have at least one separate reputation of their own, not usable by the other factions, based around a planet which would have a small story attached, like the "Romulan Reputation" does for players. For the Federation it could be set on Andoria*; for the Klingon Empire you could use Rura Penthe; and for the Romulan Republic you'd have to add someplace like Tranome Sar, which might just fit within Tau Dewa.
*The reason for choosing Andoria would be because we have a visitable map which is sitting there offering nothing to players. It'd be a good place to have Captain Va'Kel Shon as the contact, as a means of getting to know his character better, possibly because he needs your help with some internal problem there he doesn't want to involve Starfleet with.
Likewise, the new Klingon flagship commander Captain Koren could be involved on Rura Penthe, and Obisek on Tranome Sar for the republic.
It looks interesting, but I think my biggest qualm about this whole thing, is the way it was first presented to us...
"...Dinosaurs with frikkin' Lazers on Thie Heads..."
In my estimation, this puts it way too much into all the silly aspects of a "Dino-Riders" toon-fest.
Something that to me anyway, was never really an approach that any of the Trek iterations ever slide down too.
Sure there were some concepts that were over-the-top, but even the Animated episodes tried to keep things on a somewhat adult mentality level.
I believe if this had been presented to us in a more intellectual manner, instead of seeming like a spur-of-the-moment 'mind-TRIBBLE'...,
Perhaps there wouldn't be such a torrid backlash against the idea.
I personally don't have any problem with the Voth as an antagonist...
I'm just worried that the addition of these "Combat Creatures", is slipping the game into more of a "Donkey Kong" mentality.
Fun for what it's worth, but not really something that I would find amusing for more than a few minutes.
<shrug>
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
"While they vastly outstripped Voyager?s level of technology,..." and still you will deteriorate them to another NPC-Rubbish.
Furthermore:
"Not all combatants in the Voth force are so mundane, however! The Voth have bred and trained creatures we would only recognize as dinosaurs to use on the field of battle:"
You said you have watched the episode?! And still you think they would breed mentally deficient dinosaurs for combat? THAT DOES NOT FIT THE VOTHS DOCTRINE OF BEING THE SUPERIOR SPECIES IN THE QUADRANT.
And still i have to wonder how someone can have the idea to implement combat dinosaur with lasers mounted to their head to a Star Trek game...*sigh
If you force feed people garbage long enough they will convince themselves they actually like it and will not ask for anything more then they are given.
Few see the stupidity of the dinos in space them of season 8 everyone else has convinced themselves this is great.
because cryptic has force fed them so much garbage over the years they have become accustomed to it and convince themselves its great when it is not.
when a community gets to the point where they accept anything given them no matter how crappy it is thats when stuff like this starts coming out.
This is not star trek and no one can tell me otherwise before i started playing this game i was told it was not trek at all i did not beleive the people who told me...i do now.
I like the new content it looks fun and is welcome , however i believe its too soon for this
The klingons arnt finished yet The Feds need overhauls so many ships are obselete
The foundation of the game isnt complete
The jem Hadar new to be a full race
The Cardassians need to be a full race
The tholians and ferengi as well
Really colonizing and building settlements and citys isnt implemented yet there is no real exploration in the game
PvP isnt anything resembling star trek its more like a jet fighter game not star trek
end game content doesnt exist all we have is grind content
I believe these things need to be addressed especially End game content whish we dont even have
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I also get a "Mass Effect" and "Halo" vibe, especially from that dyson's sphere.
And I agree with the above poster, there's a lot of other unfinished things and things in this game that need an overhaul first before adding in something completely new from left field like this.
Space TRIBBLE, space Romans, space gangsters, space Greek gods, Kirk being rode like a horse, a virus that gets you drunk, a virus that turns you old, space hippies, a probe that talks to whales, Spock having no brain...not silly :rolleyes:
:cool:
Dinosaurs with lasers are a perfect fitting for StarTrek.
If you don't think so than you aren't a ST fan and should watch more episodes of STclassic
I am ok with the Voth per se, but the raptors and especially the exosuits are just too much.
It feels more like some silly cartoonish WOW thing than Star Trek IMO.
But i am sure if a dev would be adressed about it, they wouldn't see any problem with it.
We look forward to seeing what strategies you' will come up with when fighting Voth...
The only thing i will probably try to do is to avoid them altogether...
I would have liked to see the Voth to be a mini faction of peaceful Explorers.
Unlike the Federation in STO which is too much militarized, they could have been a science heavy faction, with some really nice looking but combat heavy ships.
(similar to how the Federation was shown in early TNG)
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
This is not star trek and no one can tell me otherwise
And we have Gene Roddenberry with us. So Gene, explain to us what exactly your vision for what Star Trek is and is not, because I think a number of us are simply confused. I know, you seem to think if we disagree with you, we're just Cryptic fangrrls, and we'll accept anything and we can't think for ourselves and think maybe this is Star Trek and all but I'm confused.
Please tell me at what point even you thought some things may be too outlandish, because after watching TOS, TNG, Voyager, and DS9, (oh and the cartoons as well) and seeing everything that you and you're inheritors have thrown at us, I'd love to know why you think this is too outlandish.
If you force feed people garbage long enough they will convince themselves they actually like it and will not ask for anything more then they are given.
Few see the stupidity of the dinos in space them of season 8 everyone else has convinced themselves this is great.
because cryptic has force fed them so much garbage over the years they have become accustomed to it and convince themselves its great when it is not.
when a community gets to the point where they accept anything given them no matter how crappy it is thats when stuff like this starts coming out.
This is not star trek and no one can tell me otherwise before i started playing this game i was told it was not trek at all i did not beleive the people who told me...i do now.
So you don't like it and that's your opinion, but people that do genuinely like it are wrong and just brainwashed into liking it?
get off your high horse...or at least your high dino
Your version of the Voth does not feel defensive. Sending genetically engineered dinosaurs into battle makes them look like savages, not scientists. That's the sort of thing you've expect the Gorn to do, not the Voth.
Hey! As a part time Gorn player, I take offense at this statement. Gorn are in fact the brains of the KDF. Why do you think all KDF science ships are Gorn ships?
Hmm the Voth became an intelligent species around 60 million years ago. Their tech is far more advanced than anything the Feds or Klingons can come up with. And yet you are supposed to fight them... and win. To me this is far more unrealistic and silly than bio engineered dinosaurs firing laser beams from their heads.
Wasn't one the films focused around going back in time to save whales, In order to communicate with a space probe that threatened to destroy earth unless a whale spoke to it?
Hmm the Voth became an intelligent species around 60 million years ago. Their tech is far more advanced than anything the Feds or Klingons can come up with. And yet you are supposed to fight them... and win. To me this is far more unrealistic and silly than bio engineered dinosaurs firing laser beams from their heads.
The devs mentioned it in a blog, and it was mentioned briefly in Voyager, but while they've been around 60 million years, their Doctrine does not allow them to progress quickly. Each and every advance needs to be balanced and argued theologically before it's even considered to go towards the drawing board.
During Voyager, they were more advanced, but not unbelievably so when compared to Starfleet Tech. It kind of makes sense that if Starfleet was slightly less advanced 100 years ago, they'd be roughly equal now, considering how fast Starfleet and the KDF advance tech.
This is probably what annoys me the most about this whole scenario.
I mean, okay, STO's Starfleet has progressed technologically, but I've seen no evidence that their tech is as advanced as the Voth's - we certainly can't transport entire Starships!
What weapons do their ships use? What energy type? We didn't find out in 'Distant Origin' because they didn't use said weapons. And why was that? BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T NEED TO! It would have been a waste of their time and energy. This is a race that beamed an entire STARSHIP into a 'hold' on their city ship and then rendered it completely powerless.
Seriously - the Voth should be laughing at us, because IF they still had the abilities that they had in 'Distant Origin' Starfleet really wouldn't be much of, if any, threat to them at all.
Agreed, they pretty much ignored Voyagers shields, beamed her into their ship and then rendered her useless by taking over the ship remotely..
Not one weapon was fired, and Voyager was defenceless. I very much doubt Federation tech has moved on enough to beat that lol
Agreed, they pretty much ignored Voyagers shields, beamed her into their ship and then rendered her useless by taking over the ship remotely..
Not one weapon was fired, and Voyager was defenceless. I very much doubt Federation tech has moved on enough to beat that lol
And the Federation taking on vastly more advanced civilizations in war, and winning never made it into anything canon. It's not like Voyager didn't destroy the Borg queen, the Enterprise took on Nero's ship, oh lets not forget not only beating the Borg once, but multiple times in both the series and movies, oh and of course the Dominion war as well. It's probably why it's not a Federation task to fight the Voth, but an alliance of Federation, Klingon, and Romulan, an alliance that was capable of fighting off a vastly superior technological and military Dominion, and the Dominion wanted to win. The Voth just want us to leave them alone.
Plus, Voyager made it home, with its database intact, which means the Federation has probably been working on ways to counter the Voth and what the Voyager went through, so it's not like the Federation isn't aware of what the Voth can do.
And that's just canon. Lets not even add in the Elachi, continual contact with the Borg and the addition of Borg technology in almost every Federation ship out there, the Undine threat, the Iconians being even more of a pain in the neck, the return of the Dominion and the return of minor diplomatic ties with them that has been introduced in STO.
So actually, considering it's been a known Star Trek theme that the Federation always wins against greater odds, and the technological advances that the Federation and the KDF has experienced, as well as it's an alliance against the Voth, not just the Federation, an alliance that in canon was pretty much able to defeat almost anything thrown against it, why is this such a stretch?
Comments
Actually it's more the cases of how much people have criticized the Devs right now without waiting. I remember the numerous complaints about the Romulan Republic not being 'True Romulans' and how D'tan and his movement was a supposedly 'Bad idea'.
I think by now we can agree that has been proven wrong in many areas.
So what I pointed out was instead of complaining based on a few screenshots and artwork releases...wait till we know the full story.
Also, I was not the one citing an Internet Meme in a poor attempt to critique my words. You could of quoted the whole of what I said and either took it apart bit by bit with logical arguments or pointed where you believe you are right. Instead, you focused on one line and chosen to mock it with a picture (again linking a poor internet meme). I would like to see you refute anything I said logically without burying yourself in circular logic and thereby proving my main point correct.
That main point being again that NONE of us knows what Cryptic is planning truly for Seasons 8 and how the story with The Voth plays out. Until we do, I am holding judgement beyond liking what I see and many others should do the same.
The Meme used as a parry to your, if i may somewhat inflammatory comment in an already controversial thread was irrelevant to the discussion; however, it was quite relevant to the tone of your words (caps never helps people take you seriously).
:rolleyes:
Actually, it is relevant in that many of the complaints fall into three main camps:
Legitimate concerns about the direction of Season 8 due to similarities between The Voth as we see them being done up and other franchises/IP representations of the same idea.
"Dinosaurs are kids stuff. We are making a Saturday Morning Cartoon out of Star Trek!"
"This is not Trek! Gene is rolling in his grave!"
Now let me take each of these apart.
Camp 1: Legit concerns about the direction and overlap with other IPs.
This Camp has a larger basis for concern but at the same time it also is a weak case. Reason is that I had the opportunity to talk to and question one of the top writers for the Doctor Who series when he came to visit the local Anime Convention in 2010/2011. He basically pointed out that the secret to getting published in anything is that everything has been done before, the secret is in the presentation. I will dig up his name later so you can actually know WHO I talked too at the convention (it was a panel on writing for TV).
Camp 2: The Dinosaurs are for Kids. STO is becoming a Saturday Morning Cartoon!
I am not going to make a broad stroke but to ask those who may think like this if they watched Star Trek: The Animated Series or were aware there was a Star Trek Manga around a few years ago?
Camp 3: "The Guardians of What is Trek!"
This camp not only has the weakest arguments out of the three but relies on the assumptions that THEY know what is best for the series from their Armchairs. No, if any of these can cite that they either worked with or are related in anyway to the Roddenberry's or worked on ANY of the Star Trek series in a Writer or Production Staff role, I will happily accept your credentials and apologize. Otherwise, stop trying to assume you know what is best. What you have is an opinion just like everyone else.
We already have a good idea what is planned for Season 8 and beyond. Some of it is already on Tribble if you can check it out, it's only available to gold subscribers and lifetimers right now. Another Rep grind, another fleet holding grind, another lockbox, another doff pack, etc. As far as how the story with the Voth plays out I may check it out but I have an aversion to what we've seen so far. That's my opinion.
I think I'm in the fourth camp (and that some of the people here may be as well when they give it some thought):
4. Dinosaurs with lasers are cool but this is a LOT of work spent on an environment that we'll be spending a lot of time in that isn't familiar.
I don't think the idea is awful. I think the execution and art direction are distinctive and breath taking. I think Trek is absolutely big enough to contain something like this in it.
But we are looking at something that is far enough out there that it loses specialness with reuse and where extended time spent there is extended time away from the core IP setting.
So I'd rather see the game focus on subtle details and I believe subtle details are what will give the game longevity whereas big, sweeping stuff like this is inherently better suited to non-repeatable, limited duration content.
Repeatable stuff in the game I think needs to be more mundane (because it's going to be repeated ideally) but mundane in the most polished and grand sense of the word.
Turn Deep Space Nine into an adventure zone with a reputation. Add all the decks. Add brawling activities and events around the station and instanced missions that are launched with cut scenes.
Create a durable and adaptable ship interior for each faction with features like alternate room states including damaged corridors, Sickbay in different states, warp core with various levels of damage and a breach sealing mechanic, etc. and have two or three content designers just plug away designing average missions and content that takes place on a small, incredibly polished staging area with lots of adaptability.
And when you do that, then Greek gods and laser dinosaurs will be okay as the big updates because we'll have polished, steady "normal" content as the baseline.
If we spend all of our time in mindblowing, IP-bending scenarios, there is no baseline for the IP and the content you're creating doesn't lend itself to mass produced budget content. Whereas if you have highly adaptive, well polished "playsets" that reflect the IP, there's that sense of home base to go back to that will ground the crazy Voth in a Dyson Sphere stuff more.
I think you can groom people to WANT that kind of thing but that players aren't being properly primed by showing them what "normal" Star Trek adventures look like inbetween epic releases. Whereas if I'd just spend the last 10 missions inside my ship, I might be more psychologically primed to go explore a Dyson Sphere.
It's just priming and timing.
And this here, in a nutshell, should explain what as got a number of players somewhat pissed. Having the Voth in-game is fine. Having them use the Equivalent of T-Rexes with mounted Laser Cannons on them? Stretches things just on the far edge of what is "Believable" for Trek.
But then again, I keep getting what the Matt Smith Doctor found interesting about Dinos in his 3rd Season (at about 2:42) going through my mind on this matter...
Thank you for the time...
Cryptic, would you actulaly like me to spend actual Money? It's Simple:
http://images-cdn.perfectworld.com/www/f2/c4/f2c4ebdc4bbb6942e8ed989cc67d95011381948356.jpg
love that shot
I hope im not jumping the gun, but heck yeah...my Caitian needs a pet t-rex with lasers for ground missions!!
Now we will just need, chainsaws, rocket launchers and an electric guitar to be able to say we have it all in STO! :P ...or Chuck Norris driving Voltron...what? ^^; I have a wild imagination too!
Ummmm, this game takes place in space.. Ground is a sad sad after thought.. The engine and execution are flawed likely beyond repair.. I beam down only when I MUST and wish I could beam down a torpedo or 50 in my place..
However I do look forward to SOMETHING new bring on the Voth and tie them into being enemies with the ancient Iconians... They are old enough and advanced enough to play the part of the enemy that drove the Iconians out...:D
So having space amoeba that shoot lasers out of their TRIBBLE is aceptable, having space whales is acceptable, and having cities made on the spouse of strange glowing space jelly is believable for Star Trek, but having reptiles the size of dinosaurs used for shock troops with mounted weapons to use as siege weapons and weapons for defense while they close the distance isn't believable.
You and I have a much different idea of what is believable in Star Trek.
They first talked about the Voth well over a year before that poll, and would have been in the planning and development stage well before the poll. The Voth have been a long term plan for them.
should they not have added species 8472, or the hirogen to the game at launch either because they were not on that poll? They did not include the Voth because they knew they were already using them because they fit into their story.
the poll is to see how people would like next.
Reading your posts so far, I start wondering which might have been your favorite ST series...
On the other hand, I start to think blassreiterus might be right.
Back to topic, I think this looks quite interesting to me.
And looking at Gorn, Jem'Hadar and such, this makes sense to me.
I just hope there's a little more exploration to be found in the dyson sphere.
But I'm still a mere human."
Vice Admiral Chris Curtiss, Temporal Ambassador
As an added thing to this, I think that each faction should have at least one separate reputation of their own, not usable by the other factions, based around a planet which would have a small story attached, like the "Romulan Reputation" does for players. For the Federation it could be set on Andoria*; for the Klingon Empire you could use Rura Penthe; and for the Romulan Republic you'd have to add someplace like Tranome Sar, which might just fit within Tau Dewa.
*The reason for choosing Andoria would be because we have a visitable map which is sitting there offering nothing to players. It'd be a good place to have Captain Va'Kel Shon as the contact, as a means of getting to know his character better, possibly because he needs your help with some internal problem there he doesn't want to involve Starfleet with.
Likewise, the new Klingon flagship commander Captain Koren could be involved on Rura Penthe, and Obisek on Tranome Sar for the republic.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
It looks interesting, but I think my biggest qualm about this whole thing, is the way it was first presented to us...
"...Dinosaurs with frikkin' Lazers on Thie Heads..."
In my estimation, this puts it way too much into all the silly aspects of a "Dino-Riders" toon-fest.
Something that to me anyway, was never really an approach that any of the Trek iterations ever slide down too.
Sure there were some concepts that were over-the-top, but even the Animated episodes tried to keep things on a somewhat adult mentality level.
I believe if this had been presented to us in a more intellectual manner, instead of seeming like a spur-of-the-moment 'mind-TRIBBLE'...,
Perhaps there wouldn't be such a torrid backlash against the idea.
I personally don't have any problem with the Voth as an antagonist...
I'm just worried that the addition of these "Combat Creatures", is slipping the game into more of a "Donkey Kong" mentality.
Fun for what it's worth, but not really something that I would find amusing for more than a few minutes.
<shrug>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Furthermore:
"Not all combatants in the Voth force are so mundane, however! The Voth have bred and trained creatures we would only recognize as dinosaurs to use on the field of battle:"
You said you have watched the episode?! And still you think they would breed mentally deficient dinosaurs for combat? THAT DOES NOT FIT THE VOTHS DOCTRINE OF BEING THE SUPERIOR SPECIES IN THE QUADRANT.
And still i have to wonder how someone can have the idea to implement combat dinosaur with lasers mounted to their head to a Star Trek game...*sigh
Few see the stupidity of the dinos in space them of season 8 everyone else has convinced themselves this is great.
because cryptic has force fed them so much garbage over the years they have become accustomed to it and convince themselves its great when it is not.
when a community gets to the point where they accept anything given them no matter how crappy it is thats when stuff like this starts coming out.
This is not star trek and no one can tell me otherwise before i started playing this game i was told it was not trek at all i did not beleive the people who told me...i do now.
The klingons arnt finished yet The Feds need overhauls so many ships are obselete
The foundation of the game isnt complete
The jem Hadar new to be a full race
The Cardassians need to be a full race
The tholians and ferengi as well
Really colonizing and building settlements and citys isnt implemented yet there is no real exploration in the game
PvP isnt anything resembling star trek its more like a jet fighter game not star trek
end game content doesnt exist all we have is grind content
I believe these things need to be addressed especially End game content whish we dont even have
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
And I agree with the above poster, there's a lot of other unfinished things and things in this game that need an overhaul first before adding in something completely new from left field like this.
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
Dinosaurs with lasers are a perfect fitting for StarTrek.
If you don't think so than you aren't a ST fan and should watch more episodes of STclassic
It feels more like some silly cartoonish WOW thing than Star Trek IMO.
But i am sure if a dev would be adressed about it, they wouldn't see any problem with it.
The only thing i will probably try to do is to avoid them altogether...
I would have liked to see the Voth to be a mini faction of peaceful Explorers.
Unlike the Federation in STO which is too much militarized, they could have been a science heavy faction, with some really nice looking but combat heavy ships.
(similar to how the Federation was shown in early TNG)
And we have Gene Roddenberry with us. So Gene, explain to us what exactly your vision for what Star Trek is and is not, because I think a number of us are simply confused. I know, you seem to think if we disagree with you, we're just Cryptic fangrrls, and we'll accept anything and we can't think for ourselves and think maybe this is Star Trek and all but I'm confused.
Please tell me at what point even you thought some things may be too outlandish, because after watching TOS, TNG, Voyager, and DS9, (oh and the cartoons as well) and seeing everything that you and you're inheritors have thrown at us, I'd love to know why you think this is too outlandish.
So you don't like it and that's your opinion, but people that do genuinely like it are wrong and just brainwashed into liking it?
get off your high horse...or at least your high dino
Or even as a c-store item. I'd buy it.
But dinosaurs? THAT'S JUST ABSURD!
The devs mentioned it in a blog, and it was mentioned briefly in Voyager, but while they've been around 60 million years, their Doctrine does not allow them to progress quickly. Each and every advance needs to be balanced and argued theologically before it's even considered to go towards the drawing board.
During Voyager, they were more advanced, but not unbelievably so when compared to Starfleet Tech. It kind of makes sense that if Starfleet was slightly less advanced 100 years ago, they'd be roughly equal now, considering how fast Starfleet and the KDF advance tech.
Agreed, they pretty much ignored Voyagers shields, beamed her into their ship and then rendered her useless by taking over the ship remotely..
Not one weapon was fired, and Voyager was defenceless. I very much doubt Federation tech has moved on enough to beat that lol
And the Federation taking on vastly more advanced civilizations in war, and winning never made it into anything canon. It's not like Voyager didn't destroy the Borg queen, the Enterprise took on Nero's ship, oh lets not forget not only beating the Borg once, but multiple times in both the series and movies, oh and of course the Dominion war as well. It's probably why it's not a Federation task to fight the Voth, but an alliance of Federation, Klingon, and Romulan, an alliance that was capable of fighting off a vastly superior technological and military Dominion, and the Dominion wanted to win. The Voth just want us to leave them alone.
Plus, Voyager made it home, with its database intact, which means the Federation has probably been working on ways to counter the Voth and what the Voyager went through, so it's not like the Federation isn't aware of what the Voth can do.
And that's just canon. Lets not even add in the Elachi, continual contact with the Borg and the addition of Borg technology in almost every Federation ship out there, the Undine threat, the Iconians being even more of a pain in the neck, the return of the Dominion and the return of minor diplomatic ties with them that has been introduced in STO.
So actually, considering it's been a known Star Trek theme that the Federation always wins against greater odds, and the technological advances that the Federation and the KDF has experienced, as well as it's an alliance against the Voth, not just the Federation, an alliance that in canon was pretty much able to defeat almost anything thrown against it, why is this such a stretch?