Two new base types of Warp Core have been added to the game!
Deuterium-Stabilized Warp Cores grant an increase in resistance to all subsystem power drains.
Plasma-Integrated Warp Cores grant an increase in transfer rate to all subsystem power levels.
Two new base types of Singularity Core have been added to the game!
Thoron-Infused Singularity Cores grant an increase in resistance to all subsystem power drains.
Plasma-Integrated Singularity Cores grant an increase in transfer rate to all subsystem power levels.
......
Way to go to make drains even more useless as they are already, unless you have something to make them way more powerful then the drains are right now.
With those cores there is even less reason to use a tykens or target sub or any other form of powerdrain...
If you keep giving ppl more and more resistences to stack against drains, you could also just remove all the drain skills from sto, cause it will be pointless to use them anyways.
Reynolds/Thokal
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class/R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit TheWiseGuys
I'm sure they have metrics on what people buy, and I'm sure those metrics show that almost no one buys Mk X gear. Leaving it out saves them some time designing and testing it.
Dyson Joint Command Commendations
This token is earned by completing your first daily mission each day in the Solanae Dyson Sphere
A single Commendation can be used to kick off a large reputation XP project once every 20 hours. This can be compared to the large XP project found in other reputations. It doesn't require marks or any other resource, only a single Commendation.
Good idea, terrible implementation. Instead create a daily mission similar to the Fleet Action daily that randomly rotates and awards an extra 'X' marks for completion.
As for the 2hr projects once again good idea but terrible implementation. Far too conservative of a reward for a player who wants to 'rush' the reputation. Either lower the duration or increase the reputation progression granted by it.
Same for the 'free random item' on completion, especially if it replaces the dilithium reward. I don't want more junk thrown at me.
Special standard starships and fleet starships become unlocked as you progress through the main Spire track. These must be purchased using Fleet Credits, Fleet Modules and Military Personal Requisition Provisioning from your Starbase.
Wow, way to destroy consumer confidence. So not only do I have little to no hope of older ships from both the Cstore and current Shipyard being updated to remain competitive with the new avenger/vesta 1-UP style ship releases but I also know that all the effort to getting a tier 5 shipyard does not mean I will continue to be able to get new fleet ship versions of ships that are years old? Terrible. Insulting honestly.
What's next, new ships that cannot equip fleet shields/weapons and instead they can only use the new 'fancy beams' that will be released with a new holding?
As one of the players with many alts who has basically given up on the rep system due to the insane amount of time it would take to get anywhere I applaud the general idea of this rep system and really, really hope it gets put onto the other reps as well.
I can see the good majority of more casual players though just doing the 200xp projects to get the goodie bag drops which personally would be my desired goal right up until I get a full set of ground and space. I also assume the dilithium reward at T5 is likely to go bye bye though?
To sum up I am looking forward to the changes this system promises.
I haven't had the chance to test the Spire holding on Tribble. How much do the Fleet variants of the Veteran starships cost? It better be only one Fleet Ship Module. Anyone who has it had to dump a minimum of $199.99 just to get the ship. Requiring four Fleet Ship Modules per character on top of that is nothing short of criminal price gouging.
The more grinds there are the more the mine helps.
Being in a large fleet isn't all roses either. Sure, there is all this great stuff unlocked, but try getting the fleet credits to buy any of it when projects fill almost instantly and run for 20 or more hours. At least small fleets have the option to partner with a large fleet to buy the stuff, someone in a large fleet can't be invited to a small fleets holding and donate to projects without quitting their fleet.
So lets be really honest, the real issue with small fleets is the same issue as the altoholics with rep, they want something for nothing. Well sorry, a Rolls Royce costs the same weather there are 5 or 50 people pitching in for it. Recruit to 25 and hold people accountable for donating to the fleet projects, or sputter along trying to, as many claim, mostly solo build a fleet.
I'm not opposed to them making further revisions to the fleet system, as there is always room for improvement, but the hypocrisy and hyperbole coming from the "Cryptic loves TRIBBLE small fleets!" people is pathetic and disgusting at this point and has ZERO basis in reality.
Dilithium Mine cost reductions, which all the small fleet whiners will argue aren't good enough but then...
The more grinds there are the more the mine helps.
Being in a large fleet isn't all roses either. Sure, there is all this great stuff unlocked, but try getting the fleet credits to buy any of it when projects fill almost instantly and run for 20 or more hours. At least small fleets have the option to partner with a large fleet to buy the stuff, someone in a large fleet can't be invited to a small fleets holding and donate to projects without quitting their fleet.
So lets be really honest, the real issue with small fleets is the same issue as the altoholics with rep, they want something for nothing. Well sorry, a Rolls Royce costs the same weather there are 5 or 50 people pitching in for it. Recruit to 25 and hold people accountable for donating to the fleet projects, or sputter along trying to, as many claim, mostly solo build a fleet.
I'm not opposed to them making further revisions to the fleet system, as there is always room for improvement, but the hypocrisy and hyperbole coming from the "Cryptic loves TRIBBLE small fleets!" people is pathetic and disgusting at this point and has ZERO basis in reality.
You know ... The small KDF fleet I'm with just kicked our Tier V ship yard to timer and will have it in 14 days. A handful of people with one who basically lives in the game worked HARD to make this happen.
Why? ... Because we held out hope that the new KDF fleet ships (fleet versions of ships that have been in game for ever) might finally get released and we would be ready.
What did we learn? ... It was a worthless grind as the ships people were waiting for (FEDs already have their ton + their latest ship in the ship yards) is going to the new Spire Holding instead of the ship yard where everyone under the sun thought they might go.
Larger fleets take these things for granted, but truth is ... smaller fleets way out number the bigger fleets with more players within the smaller fleets.
What happens with grinds like this is you wear the players out as they have to grind and grind ... NOT enjoy the game as you would hope.
And they don't leave for larger fleets ... they just plain leave the game.
And yes ... the mines help just a little which is why we also busted backside on our KDF fleet to get to Tier III on that.
Our FED fleet has ground to a halt because of all this. We are slow on the mine with the starbase at a stand still as we're grinding hard KDF side just to have at least one side of the fence we can (we thought) halfway enjoy.
Something for nothing my backside.
In small fleets, I see players work much harder than those hiding behind the masses within the mega fleets.
I'm sorry but I don't see why you would want to run max rep on six characters at the same time ANYWAY - kind of silly to create six characters each with the exact same max reputation and all that.
I built each of my (now) 12 characters to be unique. One has max rep across the board (my oldest) One has NO rep at all, the rest have various combinations of fleet-gear, rep gear and high-end regular gear.
Then again I am a roleplayer (after all this is an MMO*RPG*) so I want each of my characters to be unique -- not carbon-copies of each other wearing different uniforms.
For you this game might be a Role-Playing-Game, so you focus on that. Others, like me, try to max out every character and earn enough Dilithium to fill those black holes that are called "Fleet-Holdings".
Now we've got the following situation: When Season 6 was released, Cryptic told us, a fleet would need about 9 month to max-out their Starbase - a Fleet of 25 members, which are online every second or third day. When the Embassy was released with Season 7, we were told that it would take about 3 month (for the same Fleet).
Now with the Dilithium-Mine you can earn a few discounts on that, but the time-gating stays the same.
When the Spire-Holding will be released, people will have to contribute for that, too.
Now, let's say you would found a Fleet the day Season 8 is released, what do you think how long it will take you to get done with all these holdings and how many members you would need for that?
They've got to keep things achieveable, that is the reason for most posts in this thread.
Would it be difficult to add 15 Fleetmarks to the reward for an Elite-STF? No, but it would help people to contribute to their Fleets, new players would have a chance to earn enough of the currencies needed for all the different items.
Would it be difficult to add 2.000 Dilithium-Ore to the reward for beating No Win Scenario (spread over those 10 waves)? No, it would encourage people to try to beat it.
Those are just two examples where they could reward a little bit on top. It would help new players, it would help players with multiple characters and it would help small or new Fleets.
Please Cryptic, calculate how long a new Fleet of 25 members, which are online every 2 or 3 days, would need to finish all those Fleetholdings now.
Announcing the Fleet Kar'Fi, Atrox and Ar'Kif as rewards for the new Fleet-Holding, the day after they put the newest FED-Cruiser >>Avenger-Class<< into the old Holding, sounds a little bit like cheating.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If Star Trek Online was an Open-Source (GPL) Game, we would have a low-grind fork.
Now with these new commendation tokens, you can only earn one per day and so you MUST run a queued event if you want to run a rep project - which is a major step back from the other rep systems.
Yeah, I agree. There are days when I just don't feel like running a STF. And I can skip it that day because I've got marks banked from previous days.
Reduce the timer on the token to, I don't know, four hours? With the project still on a 20-hour timer. Then we can bank a few extra tokens.
1 hour timer for the small rep mission = good.
200 rep experience for each completion = bad.
That means 4 hours a day to get the 800 you get from 1 small rep project of the others. Why not leave it at 800 so people who play will actually feel like they would get something out of it and those who can only pop in for an hour or so aren't left with a rep that takes even longer?
I'm sure they have metrics on what people buy, and I'm sure those metrics show that almost no one buys Mk X gear. Leaving it out saves them some time designing and testing it.
One must first be able to interpret data and then follow the proper processes to incorporate it.
Based on what has happened in this game since LoR as well as Season 7 if I had any faith in them its beyond lost now.
And they don't leave for larger fleets ... they just plain leave the game.
Already there LOL. When I do login now its pretty much just to blow something up and then play some of these others I've gotten into now. One I've come to like is Defiance especially since the tv show and the game design was planned out to work together. The rep systems there it takes like 1-4 days and you have got the gear. Then after that you play for fun doing their territory control. Pretty much what this game is missing because there isn't much about STO anymore that is for the fun of doing something. It's like we all grind to death to get to a point that does not even exist there is no higher purpose after you have grinded these same missions so much that when you have the gear its like been there done that and about to throw up if I see another square or circle object or invisible wall again.
I can't get on TRIBBLE to honestly provide testing and feedback aid to Cryptic, but what I'm reading from the patch notes, and what I'm seeing from the people who can, I don't like the way this new Rep System works.
It seems that, though the previously stated intent was to shorten the length of the Rep grind, the only way to do that is to spend an ungodly amount of time in-game. Solo players (i.e., a lot of players) are unlikely to go for this.
Remember when the large Rep XP projects took 40 hours? I do. This system, instead of having ridiculously long cooldowns, has ridiculously skimpy rewards. Who in their right mind would spend 4 hours in this game EVERY SINGLE DAY?! Do such people even exist?
Also, removing the ability to stockpile excess resources for later use, when you just don't want to do the mission again, is never a good idea. We can only spend one of these 'Commendation Tokens' per day, so why in the world are we not able to earn more than one?
This reminds me of Neverwinter's 'Celestial Coin' system, but that one is better because the things you can get with that are largely worthless.
Bottom line here: You're making time spent in-game worth less and less, but requiring more of it for us to progress. You can only stretch your game so far, Cryptic. Don't test your customers' patience any more than you already have.
So lets be really honest, the real issue with small fleets is the same issue as the altoholics with rep, they want something for nothing. Well sorry, a Rolls Royce costs the same weather there are 5 or 50 people pitching in for it. Recruit to 25 and hold people accountable for donating to the fleet projects, or sputter along trying to, as many claim, mostly solo build a fleet.
I'm not opposed to them making further revisions to the fleet system, as there is always room for improvement, but the hypocrisy and hyperbole coming from the "Cryptic loves TRIBBLE small fleets!" people is pathetic and disgusting at this point and has ZERO basis in reality.
First I don't think they like TRIBBLE small fleets, i think they are control freaks and their overly bureaucratic mechanisms favor larger fleets. The difference is in their intent, they are not mean, just not really helpful either. Here is the basis in reality: make starbase development pretty darn cheap and provisions pretty darn expensive. Large fleets could ahve got their starbase quickly, but the benefits would have taken a proportional time to get through provisions. Small fleets would have still spent longer on the starbase, but provisions would negate that as it would be expected they could build up their needed stash quicker than the large fleet. Implementation was at the at least not compassionate, and at worst incompetent or controlling.
Second we large fleeters need to back off the small fleets and altoholics. They probably are the money base for a game like this. The guy that has every zen ship is more likely to have multiple toons. I would further state that the people buying the most zen are either heavy altoholics or small fleets because why do larger fleets need to buy zen for. the Dilithium they grind is not as necessary for fleet holdings so it is easier to convert to Zen.
Furthermore, have some charity. You got what you got, why hold the guys in the small fleet back? This is a GAME, say it with me: game. It should be fun and cater to as much diversity of enjoyment as possible.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
I'm a player who spends alot of his free time in this game, with a fulltime job & family this is really hard to do with several characters ...
Each time a new "event" comes by, i dread what its going to take me ...
I was fairly "relieved" at the 14 shards requirement in the latest Crystal event, but being abit of a completionist, found it very hard & repetative to do daily, taking over an hour to complete the jobs.
I had to quit gaming for over a week after the risian event, to recover from the 8chars worth of stuntflying for the favors & ship-shards to get the ship & clothes ... (and boy was i disappointed in the clothing options & bugs).....
In a game where every standard account can make 3 characters on the factions, must it really be geared with all the content to people who only play 1 char exclusivly ???? I can see no other reason for putting in projects that require things that can only be done 1 time a day.
At least omega marks & bnp's can be stockpiled, and slotted into the projects when u finish, and like others ... i am not quite sure why the BNP's as character bound items, need to take up inventory space.... As i am also confused why the consumables (heals & stuff) can only stack to 20.
I like the idea of changing the store unlocks to non projects ... as they honestly should have been all along ... so please ... retrofit at least that 1 change to the other projects as well.
I am also abit befuddled why the ships are locked into the spire reputation/holding ....
They should be part of a shipyard.....
I had to quit gaming for over a week after the risian event, to recover from the 8chars worth of stuntflying for the favors & ship-shards to get the ship & clothes ... (and boy was i disappointed in the clothing options & bugs).....
I skipped the risan event altogether. I needed a break from grind and just took advantage that the corvette was not something i would really use.
As it is if this goes through as the real S8 I will probably take some time off. I have a LTS so I will just build up stipend and can come back with a bunch of zen, pick up then.
Rep will have to be more alt and new client friendly or game revenue growth will cease. I could probably save a bunch of time if I waited till then. At the least I am probably just going to grind rep on one toon and wait for it to be account wide or something similar. I have the strong belief that rep will be account wide or the game will not make it. All future development seems to be rep and fleet holding driven which hurts a new kid wanting to spend money here the first time.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
Elite Dyson events will reward all 3 (commendation*, marks and Implants), Normal will reward commendation* and marks.
*Only one commendation can be earned per day, on the first event you play through.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
HOLY S**T! you guys made the rep worse. I really thought cryptic would listen to it's players and change the reputation system to account wide unlockable but you guys did a 180. Not only is the reputation still the same in that respect to the other reps. Now, I cant even stockpile commendations for my toons.
Right now I have 7 toons fully t5 across the board and there is no possible way I will be able to constantly get on every day and earn that 1 commendation point needed for reputation system. NO WAY will I be able to sit hour upon hour switching between my toons doing the 1 hour rep trying to level them up. I was really hoping cryptic was going to change the reputation system for better and I could unlock the reputation system for my 6 new romulan toons but now I see I wont be doing it on them at all.
I'd like to point out, Again... That these reward unlocks are simply mishandled and even a bit blatantly abused...
Fleet Vet Ships? Really? That's the best you could think of? Because EVERYONE just has the Vet ships.... :rolleyes:
I hate most of the elitist Romulan players but even I feel bad for them in this utter TRIBBLE-TRIBBLE you call a Tier 3 reward because they yet to even have a full carrier... So a fleet half carrier that starts as a captain's level ship instead.... really? REALLY?
You guys are getting worse at this.... not better....
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
1 hour timer for the small rep mission = good.
200 rep experience for each completion = bad.
That means 4 hours a day to get the 800 you get from 1 small rep project of the others. Why not leave it at 800 so people who play will actually feel like they would get something out of it and those who can only pop in for an hour or so aren't left with a rep that takes even longer?
I'm with this guy, generally speaking reputation has changed for the better though.
@cidstorm I agree it does seem to be a change for the better and if the only thing wrong was the lack of a 20hour 800cxp project then maybe they will put that in as an option.
Having 1 hour for 200cxp, 20hour for 800 and 2000cxp would seem an ideal solution although if it was given those folks who want the 800cxp mission would undoubtedly call for it to be 10 hour so it completes overnight allowing many 1 hour and a long project to be done per day.
Thought I would post some facts since it seems almost no one in this thread has been on tribble, just reading the notes and making guesses.
Spire Tier 1 does actually have a ship unlock. It unlocks the Obelisk carrier for all factions. I have no stats on it.
About the 200xp rep project: Tier 1 version requires 10 marks, 1k expertise and 2kec. The expertise and ec costs are down but the mark costs just shot WAY up. In order to get the same 2800xp you need the token + 40 marks. The previous reps required 26 marks + more expertise and ec. Considering this is just for the first tier the total cost in marks to get the same amount of rep xp per day is going to be really bad at higher tiers. Unless the cost in marks per project does not change as you rank up the costs at the high end are going to be around 70 marks compared to 48 currently. The mark cost should probably be reduced by around half for the 200xp project.
I would also suggest that you add more versions that have longer timers and want more resources. A version that takes 10 hours and wants 5x the marks and grants around 5x the reward for instance. Something so that we can have a project ticking while we are at work or sleeping and feel like we are getting something done but not at as fast a rate as the faster cheaper project. With the 1hr project, if you don't log in every hr for 4 hours you lose progress, I can see it will actually increase the amount of time it will take me to max the rep compared to the current system. We can't do rep in the gateway (not that I've ever gotten it to work) so we are forced to be at our computer logged in to advance this rep. You want to go to a movie? ah you just lost out on 2 projects worth of progress. Eating? missed a project. It will be even worst for those that try to max many alts at once. I normally limit myself to doing rep on 3 alts at once but it can still be a chore.
You could even have a 800xp project that takes 20h and has a cost/xp ratio way off from the 200xp one and it would make people much happier as they could feel like they are progressing in the rep.
I also find the inability to stock up on the token to be a bit of a problem for most of the reasons mentioned before. If I"m traveling or busy I might only be able to log in for a limited time on a computer with lower end stats which make doing pve queues not fun or helpful to the team. For these times I normally stock up ahead of time and then I can log in and just kick the projects off, do a little maintence and then log off again. Although limiting the number of the tokens you can have at once would be annoying it would be prefferable to not being able to stock up at all.
Having something that works like the Entity event every now and then is ok, its a grind but you know its short lived and the rewards are normally worth it. Having a grind where you must log in every 20h for the token and at least 3 other times to start projects, for over a month of time, for all your characters, is not going to be something most people will do. And the ones that want to do it will burnout fairly quickly and find something else to play.
I like the idea behind the new reputation project layout but the costs and limits are going to make it not fun. Give us a bunch of different level up projects with different timers and costs so that we can advance at what feels a reasonable rate. During the weekend we could do the short timer ones for a quick boost but during the week when we can't play as much we could use the longer timer ones to still make progress.
I think there might be some confusion here. Allow me to better break down how rewards will work.
Completing Queued events award the following:
Standard Difficulty
-Dyson Joint Command Commendation
-Dyson Marks
Elite
-Dyson Joint Command Commendation
-Dyson Marks
-Voth Cybernetic Implants
There are also other ways to get marks, commendations and voth cybernetic implants.
Right now there is only a single queued event available, but soon there will be another one. You can simply do one these queues to kick off your daily rep project and you'll end up with marks to boot. The Dilithium Rep stores unlock automatically at each tier.
Knowing this do you still have concerns? I'd like to dispel any confusion regarding the rep and if the patch notes are at all misleading or unclear let me know and I'll work to correct them to prevent further confusion.
Best Regards,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
What got you guys into trouble the first time around was:
(1) too many resource requirements,
(2) too many themed reputation marks,
(3) too many cool down timers,
(4) too long of a cool down waiting period,
(5) too many gates to unlock tiers and items,
(6) overly expensive projects (marks & dilithium costs),
(7) overly expensive items (marks & dilithium costs),
(8) stfs not allowing you to choose rewards,
(9) stfs not rewarding an efficient amount of rewards,
(10) not a lot of variety in stf missions.
Unless you guys do something about the grinding, many people will not be sticking around for season eight. Fleetbases, Embassies, Dilithium Mine, and Dyson's Sphere will make the grinding a thousand times harsher. If you want people to have fun, the best way to do that is to simplify the reputation system. Casual players will thank you.
I know I will thank you.
I stopped the Romulan and Tholian reps at tier three, for I felt they took away my ability to enjoy "Star Trek: Online". If I am already turned off by the current system, I am not going to bother trying out the Dyson system.
Please consider what you do carefully, so that I can restart the rep system.
What got you guys into trouble the first time around was:
(1) too many resource requirements,
(2) too many themed reputation marks,
(3) too many cool down timers,
(4) too long of a cool down waiting period,
(5) too many gates to unlock tiers and items,
(6) overly expensive projects (marks & dilithium costs),
(7) overly expensive items (marks & dilithium costs),
(8) stfs not allowing you to choose rewards,
(9) stfs not rewarding an efficient amount of rewards,
(10) not a lot of variety in stf missions.
Unless you guys do something about the grinding, many people will not be sticking around for season eight. Fleetbases, Embassies, Dilithium Mine, and Dyson's Sphere will make the grinding a thousand times harsher. If you want people to have fun, the best way to do that is to simplify the reputation system. Casual players will thank you.
I know I will thank you.
I stopped the Romulan and Tholian reps at tier three, for I felt they took away my ability to enjoy "Star Trek: Online". If I am already turned off by the current system, I am not going to bother trying out the Dyson system.
Please consider what you do carefully, so that I can restart the rep system.
I want to have fun again.
Thank you for your time,
Sa'azym
honestly my first thought was NOOOOO, Not ANOTHER Fleet Holding....
I seriously have lost all interest in these "holdings"...
1) its like feeding a black hole. No sense of moving forward. Most anything you would actually use are in the top tiers and its feed, feed, feed, for nothing. There are too many projects wanting too many resources. Every time a new holding is added the over all progress gets slower and slower.
2) I might spend 10 minutes of my entire game life in these "holdings". That's why I simply wont donate dilithium for these 200K projects that eye candy that I will never notice.
3) More or less they are stores. They might have 1 or 2 items I might want and then I never have any reason to go back. But it costs me a lot for a console. They are seeming less and less worth the effort. I could buy a ship or two for all the dilithium these consoles actually cost.
IMO they need to completely rework the entire "fleet holding" concept. Especially now with so many "holdings". It makes it even worse for small or new fleets since it takes so long. And now they will have 4 things leeching marks and dilith. Every thing needs to take fewer resources and fewer projects
So really, I don't see doing 1000s of missions and spending 100Ks of dilithing so in 6 months I can buy a console (and pay even MORE dilithium on top what I already spent on the store) in some shiny new store.
Cant the current store in the actual star base just sell this TRIBBLE.
Cant the current store in the actual star base just sell this TRIBBLE.
I am currently not in a fleet. Reputation system allows me to casually purchase items. If they brought the rep items over to the fleet, the single-players will not be able to buy them.
Since it takes too long to grind stuff, I decided it was wise to play solo.
If Cryptic forced me into a fleet, I would end up leaving the game.
This new Reputation has been designed based on player feedback and features some quality of life improvements:
I fail to see where the "quality of life improvements" are. The main complaints about rep is its not very alt friendly, I think rep tiers should be account wide unlock, but at least give alts a bonus to rep projects if another character on that account has completed that tier.
Another complaint is the multiple items and currencies involved with this, it has gotten worse, now we need Dyson sphere command commendations, marks, and cybernetic implants.
I am going to pass on this new rep system if more changes aren't made to make rep alt friendly. If this rep has very powerful must have items and passives that you can't do without to remain competitive in PVP I will move on from STO rather then grind my characters through another rep system. Even better just stop adding more rep systems, why can't we just get new content that unlocks rewards like the old STF system with tech drops, and episode rewards, I hate this very concept of rep systems, I am sick of it.
I fail to see where the "quality of life improvements" are. The main complaints about rep is its not very alt friendly, I think rep tiers should be account wide unlock, but at least give alts a bonus to rep projects if another character on that account has completed that tier.
Another complaint is the multiple items and currencies involved with this, it has gotten worse, now we need Dyson sphere command commendations, marks, and cybernetic implants.
I am going to pass on this new rep system if more changes aren't made to make rep alt friendly. If this rep has very powerful must have items and passives that you can't do without to remain competitive in PVP I will move on from STO rather then grind my characters through another rep system. Even better just stop adding more rep systems, why can't we just get new content that unlocks rewards like the old STF system with tech drops, and episode rewards, I hate this very concept of rep systems, I am sick of it.
I don't see anything wrong with a rep system that is how it was preS8 if it were account wide. It would be nice to just put in XP, Marks, and EC but the real hang up is you have to grind it for each toon. \
Now, IF the rep system had a variety of missions and options to get the inputs that would make the grind more fun, but as it is there are few efficient ways to get the marks so it becomes a cookie cutter every single night you play the game.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
I don't see anything wrong with a rep system that is how it was preS8 if it were account wide. It would be nice to just put in XP, Marks, and EC but the real hang up is you have to grind it for each toon. \
Now, IF the rep system had a variety of missions and options to get the inputs that would make the grind more fun, but as it is there are few efficient ways to get the marks so it becomes a cookie cutter every single night you play the game.
I like the old system pre S7 where instead of this stupid Omega rep you just do STFs and once you get the drops you need you get the item, no need for rep projects and cooldown timers.
If this is supposed to get players to try new content it has the opposite effect with me. I discovered that I can get by quite fine with tier 2 romulan rep or tier 0 Tholian rep so I don't even bother with that stuff much anymore.
I like the old system pre S7 where instead of this stupid Omega rep you just do STFs and once you get the drops you need you get the item, no need for rep projects and cooldown timers.
If this is supposed to get players to try new content it has the opposite effect with me. I discovered that I can get by quite fine with tier 2 romulan rep or tier 0 Tholian rep so I don't even bother with that stuff much anymore.
Was that the system where the drops were random and you had to get them from specific missions?
That would have worked itself if the drops were extremely more common. I had the stf accolades but not the MKxii gear drops. I actually stopped playing cause it was just not working out. Came back just a few months before Fleet Starbase was announced.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
I'm not sure the old system befits a game like sto, tbh. STFs, as they are now, aren't huge dungeons runs that require lots of time and planning, they are short, quick missions where simple rewards seem to fit better then randomly, and extremely rarely given, powerful Items
That being said, Yes, considering the sheer amount of them piling up, Rep progress should be account wide. You will after all still need to grind marks and dil for the equipment anyway and this would at least remove one big annoyance (Of course, if it is account wide, expect dozens of "I grinded the rep To T5 with my 20 chars and I don't want others to get that for Free!!" posts. ^^' )
The sheer amount of stuff to grind is also starting to get intimidating.
It's not a big thing for old players who got to grind Omega first, then Romulan, then Thoilan and now can get Ready for voth, a new player, though will have all 4 systems smashed into his face at once, with different missions giving different marks and a lot of work to do before it pays off and all needing to invest time.
The same goes for the fleet holdings. Smaller fleet struggle already with the starbase, and every fleet holding drags resources away from the starbase progress. I'm in a pretty active fleet myself, but small fleets can never hope to get anywhere near T5 unless they are planning to play this game for years or evolve into a huge fleet with hundres of members, which is likely pretty discouraging. Why bother investing time into the grind if you know it'll never net you the same cool stuff the big fleets have?
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Way to go to make drains even more useless as they are already, unless you have something to make them way more powerful then the drains are right now.
With those cores there is even less reason to use a tykens or target sub or any other form of powerdrain...
If you keep giving ppl more and more resistences to stack against drains, you could also just remove all the drain skills from sto, cause it will be pointless to use them anyways.
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Good idea, terrible implementation. Instead create a daily mission similar to the Fleet Action daily that randomly rotates and awards an extra 'X' marks for completion.
As for the 2hr projects once again good idea but terrible implementation. Far too conservative of a reward for a player who wants to 'rush' the reputation. Either lower the duration or increase the reputation progression granted by it.
Same for the 'free random item' on completion, especially if it replaces the dilithium reward. I don't want more junk thrown at me.
Wow, way to destroy consumer confidence. So not only do I have little to no hope of older ships from both the Cstore and current Shipyard being updated to remain competitive with the new avenger/vesta 1-UP style ship releases but I also know that all the effort to getting a tier 5 shipyard does not mean I will continue to be able to get new fleet ship versions of ships that are years old? Terrible. Insulting honestly.
What's next, new ships that cannot equip fleet shields/weapons and instead they can only use the new 'fancy beams' that will be released with a new holding?
Just my constructive criticism.
I can see the good majority of more casual players though just doing the 200xp projects to get the goodie bag drops which personally would be my desired goal right up until I get a full set of ground and space. I also assume the dilithium reward at T5 is likely to go bye bye though?
To sum up I am looking forward to the changes this system promises.
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
Dilithium Mine cost reductions, which all the small fleet whiners will argue aren't good enough but then...
The more grinds there are the more the mine helps.
Being in a large fleet isn't all roses either. Sure, there is all this great stuff unlocked, but try getting the fleet credits to buy any of it when projects fill almost instantly and run for 20 or more hours. At least small fleets have the option to partner with a large fleet to buy the stuff, someone in a large fleet can't be invited to a small fleets holding and donate to projects without quitting their fleet.
So lets be really honest, the real issue with small fleets is the same issue as the altoholics with rep, they want something for nothing. Well sorry, a Rolls Royce costs the same weather there are 5 or 50 people pitching in for it. Recruit to 25 and hold people accountable for donating to the fleet projects, or sputter along trying to, as many claim, mostly solo build a fleet.
I'm not opposed to them making further revisions to the fleet system, as there is always room for improvement, but the hypocrisy and hyperbole coming from the "Cryptic loves TRIBBLE small fleets!" people is pathetic and disgusting at this point and has ZERO basis in reality.
You know ... The small KDF fleet I'm with just kicked our Tier V ship yard to timer and will have it in 14 days. A handful of people with one who basically lives in the game worked HARD to make this happen.
Why? ... Because we held out hope that the new KDF fleet ships (fleet versions of ships that have been in game for ever) might finally get released and we would be ready.
What did we learn? ... It was a worthless grind as the ships people were waiting for (FEDs already have their ton + their latest ship in the ship yards) is going to the new Spire Holding instead of the ship yard where everyone under the sun thought they might go.
Larger fleets take these things for granted, but truth is ... smaller fleets way out number the bigger fleets with more players within the smaller fleets.
What happens with grinds like this is you wear the players out as they have to grind and grind ... NOT enjoy the game as you would hope.
And they don't leave for larger fleets ... they just plain leave the game.
And yes ... the mines help just a little which is why we also busted backside on our KDF fleet to get to Tier III on that.
Our FED fleet has ground to a halt because of all this. We are slow on the mine with the starbase at a stand still as we're grinding hard KDF side just to have at least one side of the fence we can (we thought) halfway enjoy.
Something for nothing my backside.
In small fleets, I see players work much harder than those hiding behind the masses within the mega fleets.
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For you this game might be a Role-Playing-Game, so you focus on that. Others, like me, try to max out every character and earn enough Dilithium to fill those black holes that are called "Fleet-Holdings".
Now we've got the following situation: When Season 6 was released, Cryptic told us, a fleet would need about 9 month to max-out their Starbase - a Fleet of 25 members, which are online every second or third day. When the Embassy was released with Season 7, we were told that it would take about 3 month (for the same Fleet).
Now with the Dilithium-Mine you can earn a few discounts on that, but the time-gating stays the same.
When the Spire-Holding will be released, people will have to contribute for that, too.
Now, let's say you would found a Fleet the day Season 8 is released, what do you think how long it will take you to get done with all these holdings and how many members you would need for that?
They've got to keep things achieveable, that is the reason for most posts in this thread.
Would it be difficult to add 15 Fleetmarks to the reward for an Elite-STF? No, but it would help people to contribute to their Fleets, new players would have a chance to earn enough of the currencies needed for all the different items.
Would it be difficult to add 2.000 Dilithium-Ore to the reward for beating No Win Scenario (spread over those 10 waves)? No, it would encourage people to try to beat it.
Those are just two examples where they could reward a little bit on top. It would help new players, it would help players with multiple characters and it would help small or new Fleets.
Please Cryptic, calculate how long a new Fleet of 25 members, which are online every 2 or 3 days, would need to finish all those Fleetholdings now.
Announcing the Fleet Kar'Fi, Atrox and Ar'Kif as rewards for the new Fleet-Holding, the day after they put the newest FED-Cruiser >>Avenger-Class<< into the old Holding, sounds a little bit like cheating.
If Star Trek Online was an Open-Source (GPL) Game, we would have a low-grind fork.
Yeah, I agree. There are days when I just don't feel like running a STF. And I can skip it that day because I've got marks banked from previous days.
Reduce the timer on the token to, I don't know, four hours? With the project still on a 20-hour timer. Then we can bank a few extra tokens.
200 rep experience for each completion = bad.
That means 4 hours a day to get the 800 you get from 1 small rep project of the others. Why not leave it at 800 so people who play will actually feel like they would get something out of it and those who can only pop in for an hour or so aren't left with a rep that takes even longer?
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Based on what has happened in this game since LoR as well as Season 7 if I had any faith in them its beyond lost now.
Already there LOL. When I do login now its pretty much just to blow something up and then play some of these others I've gotten into now. One I've come to like is Defiance especially since the tv show and the game design was planned out to work together. The rep systems there it takes like 1-4 days and you have got the gear. Then after that you play for fun doing their territory control. Pretty much what this game is missing because there isn't much about STO anymore that is for the fun of doing something. It's like we all grind to death to get to a point that does not even exist there is no higher purpose after you have grinded these same missions so much that when you have the gear its like been there done that and about to throw up if I see another square or circle object or invisible wall again.
It seems that, though the previously stated intent was to shorten the length of the Rep grind, the only way to do that is to spend an ungodly amount of time in-game. Solo players (i.e., a lot of players) are unlikely to go for this.
Remember when the large Rep XP projects took 40 hours? I do. This system, instead of having ridiculously long cooldowns, has ridiculously skimpy rewards. Who in their right mind would spend 4 hours in this game EVERY SINGLE DAY?! Do such people even exist?
Also, removing the ability to stockpile excess resources for later use, when you just don't want to do the mission again, is never a good idea. We can only spend one of these 'Commendation Tokens' per day, so why in the world are we not able to earn more than one?
This reminds me of Neverwinter's 'Celestial Coin' system, but that one is better because the things you can get with that are largely worthless.
Bottom line here: You're making time spent in-game worth less and less, but requiring more of it for us to progress. You can only stretch your game so far, Cryptic. Don't test your customers' patience any more than you already have.
First I don't think they like TRIBBLE small fleets, i think they are control freaks and their overly bureaucratic mechanisms favor larger fleets. The difference is in their intent, they are not mean, just not really helpful either. Here is the basis in reality: make starbase development pretty darn cheap and provisions pretty darn expensive. Large fleets could ahve got their starbase quickly, but the benefits would have taken a proportional time to get through provisions. Small fleets would have still spent longer on the starbase, but provisions would negate that as it would be expected they could build up their needed stash quicker than the large fleet. Implementation was at the at least not compassionate, and at worst incompetent or controlling.
Second we large fleeters need to back off the small fleets and altoholics. They probably are the money base for a game like this. The guy that has every zen ship is more likely to have multiple toons. I would further state that the people buying the most zen are either heavy altoholics or small fleets because why do larger fleets need to buy zen for. the Dilithium they grind is not as necessary for fleet holdings so it is easier to convert to Zen.
Furthermore, have some charity. You got what you got, why hold the guys in the small fleet back? This is a GAME, say it with me: game. It should be fun and cater to as much diversity of enjoyment as possible.
Nice to see the Nausicaan Pirate space trait that needs a fix isn't forgotten. ^_^
Yes I exist and I have no mind to speak of I have an autopilot that says Dilithium... Dilithium... Free... Dilithium...
Each time a new "event" comes by, i dread what its going to take me ...
I was fairly "relieved" at the 14 shards requirement in the latest Crystal event, but being abit of a completionist, found it very hard & repetative to do daily, taking over an hour to complete the jobs.
I had to quit gaming for over a week after the risian event, to recover from the 8chars worth of stuntflying for the favors & ship-shards to get the ship & clothes ... (and boy was i disappointed in the clothing options & bugs).....
In a game where every standard account can make 3 characters on the factions, must it really be geared with all the content to people who only play 1 char exclusivly ???? I can see no other reason for putting in projects that require things that can only be done 1 time a day.
At least omega marks & bnp's can be stockpiled, and slotted into the projects when u finish, and like others ... i am not quite sure why the BNP's as character bound items, need to take up inventory space.... As i am also confused why the consumables (heals & stuff) can only stack to 20.
I like the idea of changing the store unlocks to non projects ... as they honestly should have been all along ... so please ... retrofit at least that 1 change to the other projects as well.
I am also abit befuddled why the ships are locked into the spire reputation/holding ....
They should be part of a shipyard.....
I skipped the risan event altogether. I needed a break from grind and just took advantage that the corvette was not something i would really use.
As it is if this goes through as the real S8 I will probably take some time off. I have a LTS so I will just build up stipend and can come back with a bunch of zen, pick up then.
Rep will have to be more alt and new client friendly or game revenue growth will cease. I could probably save a bunch of time if I waited till then. At the least I am probably just going to grind rep on one toon and wait for it to be account wide or something similar. I have the strong belief that rep will be account wide or the game will not make it. All future development seems to be rep and fleet holding driven which hurts a new kid wanting to spend money here the first time.
HOLY S**T! you guys made the rep worse. I really thought cryptic would listen to it's players and change the reputation system to account wide unlockable but you guys did a 180. Not only is the reputation still the same in that respect to the other reps. Now, I cant even stockpile commendations for my toons.
Right now I have 7 toons fully t5 across the board and there is no possible way I will be able to constantly get on every day and earn that 1 commendation point needed for reputation system. NO WAY will I be able to sit hour upon hour switching between my toons doing the 1 hour rep trying to level them up. I was really hoping cryptic was going to change the reputation system for better and I could unlock the reputation system for my 6 new romulan toons but now I see I wont be doing it on them at all.
way to fail.... way to fail.
Fleet Vet Ships? Really? That's the best you could think of? Because EVERYONE just has the Vet ships.... :rolleyes:
I hate most of the elitist Romulan players but even I feel bad for them in this utter TRIBBLE-TRIBBLE you call a Tier 3 reward because they yet to even have a full carrier... So a fleet half carrier that starts as a captain's level ship instead.... really? REALLY?
You guys are getting worse at this.... not better....
I'm with this guy, generally speaking reputation has changed for the better though.
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Having 1 hour for 200cxp, 20hour for 800 and 2000cxp would seem an ideal solution although if it was given those folks who want the 800cxp mission would undoubtedly call for it to be 10 hour so it completes overnight allowing many 1 hour and a long project to be done per day.
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
Spire Tier 1 does actually have a ship unlock. It unlocks the Obelisk carrier for all factions. I have no stats on it.
About the 200xp rep project: Tier 1 version requires 10 marks, 1k expertise and 2kec. The expertise and ec costs are down but the mark costs just shot WAY up. In order to get the same 2800xp you need the token + 40 marks. The previous reps required 26 marks + more expertise and ec. Considering this is just for the first tier the total cost in marks to get the same amount of rep xp per day is going to be really bad at higher tiers. Unless the cost in marks per project does not change as you rank up the costs at the high end are going to be around 70 marks compared to 48 currently. The mark cost should probably be reduced by around half for the 200xp project.
I would also suggest that you add more versions that have longer timers and want more resources. A version that takes 10 hours and wants 5x the marks and grants around 5x the reward for instance. Something so that we can have a project ticking while we are at work or sleeping and feel like we are getting something done but not at as fast a rate as the faster cheaper project. With the 1hr project, if you don't log in every hr for 4 hours you lose progress, I can see it will actually increase the amount of time it will take me to max the rep compared to the current system. We can't do rep in the gateway (not that I've ever gotten it to work) so we are forced to be at our computer logged in to advance this rep. You want to go to a movie? ah you just lost out on 2 projects worth of progress. Eating? missed a project. It will be even worst for those that try to max many alts at once. I normally limit myself to doing rep on 3 alts at once but it can still be a chore.
You could even have a 800xp project that takes 20h and has a cost/xp ratio way off from the 200xp one and it would make people much happier as they could feel like they are progressing in the rep.
I also find the inability to stock up on the token to be a bit of a problem for most of the reasons mentioned before. If I"m traveling or busy I might only be able to log in for a limited time on a computer with lower end stats which make doing pve queues not fun or helpful to the team. For these times I normally stock up ahead of time and then I can log in and just kick the projects off, do a little maintence and then log off again. Although limiting the number of the tokens you can have at once would be annoying it would be prefferable to not being able to stock up at all.
Having something that works like the Entity event every now and then is ok, its a grind but you know its short lived and the rewards are normally worth it. Having a grind where you must log in every 20h for the token and at least 3 other times to start projects, for over a month of time, for all your characters, is not going to be something most people will do. And the ones that want to do it will burnout fairly quickly and find something else to play.
I like the idea behind the new reputation project layout but the costs and limits are going to make it not fun. Give us a bunch of different level up projects with different timers and costs so that we can advance at what feels a reasonable rate. During the weekend we could do the short timer ones for a quick boost but during the week when we can't play as much we could use the longer timer ones to still make progress.
Thank you for your time in reading this.
(1) too many resource requirements,
(2) too many themed reputation marks,
(3) too many cool down timers,
(4) too long of a cool down waiting period,
(5) too many gates to unlock tiers and items,
(6) overly expensive projects (marks & dilithium costs),
(7) overly expensive items (marks & dilithium costs),
(8) stfs not allowing you to choose rewards,
(9) stfs not rewarding an efficient amount of rewards,
(10) not a lot of variety in stf missions.
Unless you guys do something about the grinding, many people will not be sticking around for season eight. Fleetbases, Embassies, Dilithium Mine, and Dyson's Sphere will make the grinding a thousand times harsher. If you want people to have fun, the best way to do that is to simplify the reputation system. Casual players will thank you.
I know I will thank you.
I stopped the Romulan and Tholian reps at tier three, for I felt they took away my ability to enjoy "Star Trek: Online". If I am already turned off by the current system, I am not going to bother trying out the Dyson system.
Please consider what you do carefully, so that I can restart the rep system.
I want to have fun again.
Thank you for your time,
Sa'azym
honestly my first thought was NOOOOO, Not ANOTHER Fleet Holding....
I seriously have lost all interest in these "holdings"...
1) its like feeding a black hole. No sense of moving forward. Most anything you would actually use are in the top tiers and its feed, feed, feed, for nothing. There are too many projects wanting too many resources. Every time a new holding is added the over all progress gets slower and slower.
2) I might spend 10 minutes of my entire game life in these "holdings". That's why I simply wont donate dilithium for these 200K projects that eye candy that I will never notice.
3) More or less they are stores. They might have 1 or 2 items I might want and then I never have any reason to go back. But it costs me a lot for a console. They are seeming less and less worth the effort. I could buy a ship or two for all the dilithium these consoles actually cost.
IMO they need to completely rework the entire "fleet holding" concept. Especially now with so many "holdings". It makes it even worse for small or new fleets since it takes so long. And now they will have 4 things leeching marks and dilith. Every thing needs to take fewer resources and fewer projects
So really, I don't see doing 1000s of missions and spending 100Ks of dilithing so in 6 months I can buy a console (and pay even MORE dilithium on top what I already spent on the store) in some shiny new store.
Cant the current store in the actual star base just sell this TRIBBLE.
Since it takes too long to grind stuff, I decided it was wise to play solo.
If Cryptic forced me into a fleet, I would end up leaving the game.
I fail to see where the "quality of life improvements" are. The main complaints about rep is its not very alt friendly, I think rep tiers should be account wide unlock, but at least give alts a bonus to rep projects if another character on that account has completed that tier.
Another complaint is the multiple items and currencies involved with this, it has gotten worse, now we need Dyson sphere command commendations, marks, and cybernetic implants.
I am going to pass on this new rep system if more changes aren't made to make rep alt friendly. If this rep has very powerful must have items and passives that you can't do without to remain competitive in PVP I will move on from STO rather then grind my characters through another rep system. Even better just stop adding more rep systems, why can't we just get new content that unlocks rewards like the old STF system with tech drops, and episode rewards, I hate this very concept of rep systems, I am sick of it.
I don't see anything wrong with a rep system that is how it was preS8 if it were account wide. It would be nice to just put in XP, Marks, and EC but the real hang up is you have to grind it for each toon. \
Now, IF the rep system had a variety of missions and options to get the inputs that would make the grind more fun, but as it is there are few efficient ways to get the marks so it becomes a cookie cutter every single night you play the game.
I like the old system pre S7 where instead of this stupid Omega rep you just do STFs and once you get the drops you need you get the item, no need for rep projects and cooldown timers.
If this is supposed to get players to try new content it has the opposite effect with me. I discovered that I can get by quite fine with tier 2 romulan rep or tier 0 Tholian rep so I don't even bother with that stuff much anymore.
Was that the system where the drops were random and you had to get them from specific missions?
That would have worked itself if the drops were extremely more common. I had the stf accolades but not the MKxii gear drops. I actually stopped playing cause it was just not working out. Came back just a few months before Fleet Starbase was announced.
That being said, Yes, considering the sheer amount of them piling up, Rep progress should be account wide. You will after all still need to grind marks and dil for the equipment anyway and this would at least remove one big annoyance (Of course, if it is account wide, expect dozens of "I grinded the rep To T5 with my 20 chars and I don't want others to get that for Free!!" posts. ^^' )
The sheer amount of stuff to grind is also starting to get intimidating.
It's not a big thing for old players who got to grind Omega first, then Romulan, then Thoilan and now can get Ready for voth, a new player, though will have all 4 systems smashed into his face at once, with different missions giving different marks and a lot of work to do before it pays off and all needing to invest time.
The same goes for the fleet holdings. Smaller fleet struggle already with the starbase, and every fleet holding drags resources away from the starbase progress. I'm in a pretty active fleet myself, but small fleets can never hope to get anywhere near T5 unless they are planning to play this game for years or evolve into a huge fleet with hundres of members, which is likely pretty discouraging. Why bother investing time into the grind if you know it'll never net you the same cool stuff the big fleets have?
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