Commendation tokens are not an item in your inventory, they go into the assets tab. The number of marks you have actually only shows up on the reputation page right now.
Only the Voth Cybernetic Nodes use an inventory slot.
That is not what he is getting at. The commendations are limited to 1 per 20 hours, thus the timegate aspect of the new rep system for those that can't get on daily.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
What does cryptic consider alt friendly, how many alts do I need to feel the friendliness, how many alts do people have in a game, where you can create limitless f2p accounts if you so wish?
Since we have three classes and 2.5 faction. I would say that three toons, will allow one to see all aspects of STO. This kind would also be the greatest buying potential (not that KDF had much to spend their Zen on for more then a year *cough*). So is the time it takes me to keep the rep going on three toons, what you guys take as a base? What percentage of accounts already does that?
What does cryptic consider alt friendly, how many alts do I need to feel the friendliness, how many alts do people have in a game, where you can create limitless f2p accounts if you so wish?
Since we have three classes and 2.5 faction. I would say that three toons, will allow one to see all aspects of STO. This kind would also be the greatest buying potential (not that KDF had much to spend their Zen on for more then a year *cough*). So is the time it takes me to keep the rep going on three toons, what you guys take as a base? What percentage of accounts already does that?
Its not just the % but implementation if to max the discount you have to complete T5 on one toon and there is still a significant time gate then this means the alts will have to wait for the prime to get T5. Now if the reward is at each tier that is still better, but really this reward of a discount for completion require completion to first be obtained for the discount to be used, furthering the timegate.
Now if they had a system where a prime gets the rep and then has a project it can run which produces a rep-xp token that is account bound then alts could run rep-xp missions (call it "theater of operations mentoring") for the amount of xp at each tier OR for the whole thing. This is in essence an account wide rep system without recoding much, just make a mission which rewards a token that is account bound a d couple missions whose only or significant input is such a token which rewards rep-xp and no dilithium.
Edit: if dilithium reward can't easily be segregated then make the dilithium cost of the project the same as the reward, then we turn in refined for unrefined, counts toward our cap again, but that is a happy sacrifice.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
Its not just the % but implementation if to max the discount you have to complete T5 on one toon and there is still a significant time gate then this means the alts will have to wait for the prime to get T5. Now if the reward is at each tier that is still better, but really this reward of a discount for completion require completion to first be obtained for the discount to be used, furthering the timegate.
Now if they had a system where a prime gets the rep and then has a project it can run which produces a rep-xp token that is account bound then alts could run rep-xp missions (call it "theater of operations mentoring") for the amount of xp at each tier OR for the whole thing. This is in essence an account wide rep system without recoding much, just make a mission which rewards a token that is account bound a d couple missions whose only or significant input is such a token which rewards rep-xp and no dilithium.
Edit: if dilithium reward can't easily be segregated then make the dilithium cost of the project the same as the reward, then we turn in refined for unrefined, counts toward our cap again, but that is a happy sacrifice.
Like the idea. Any solution that removes the rep-grind for alts would be a huge improvement over the current system. And this wouldn't just be a boon for those creating alts: People sticking with their main because they don't want to go through the rep-"chore" once again don't generate any additional revenue. However people exploring different career paths without having to worry about rep will get to love their new chars and will happily spend cash for them.
The reps end up being problems because several design decisions converge to make them problematic.
For example: alts. Because it's a pain in the backside to change ships, and always has been, it's preferable to have multiple characters, sometimes on the same faction of the same type each with their own ship. Add reps, and now alts need to rep up too.
Currency enters the game too easily. So we need a system to sink some of it out! True... and using reps for that isn't a bad idea. But the whole thing added a lot of layers of needless button pushing to do this.
Commodities were basically useless inventory wasters before. So to make them useful you expected people stockpile huge collections of them. This is because some vendors are cheaper than others and if you're doing reps on 9 characters trying to remember to fly each of them over to the right place every day is a pain. But you don't want to just camp out your characters in front of the vendor because then if you do elite content you need to remember to have enough repair kits etc. in your inventory.
Someone decided that they didn't want BOFFs being used as bank space for hypos etc. but then several years later someone decided they wanted to require 45 of them to be donated per day, and you can only buy them in stacks of up to 20. How that has stayed live as long as it has is beyond me.
To make upper tier gear more valuable there were several versions of the same set made (mkx mk xi, mkxii) - notably borg, that's fine, but then the sets don't work between different mark versions - there was a reason for that, I think because you actually had to do the elite modes for the good stuff - you had to earn in. But then add in reps, and.... why would you buy the lower tier stuff at all? That problem could have been alleviated by making the next tier up require the lower tier version - and that would have meant you progressed with the rep. But no, they that route wasn't taken.
A lot of the 'choices' dealing with the rep system have been optimization to minimize tedium. Not great gameplay, and some problems have more sensible fixes than others. How about a 'fill all' and 'fill all using replicated goods' button that just eats up EC? How about making mk xi gear require the mk xii, and then making set bonuses work across tiers of gear. That kind of thing.
Commodities were basically useless inventory wasters before. So to make them useful you expected people stockpile huge collections of them. This is because some vendors are cheaper than others and if you're doing reps on 9 characters trying to remember to fly each of them over to the right place every day is a pain. But you don't want to just camp out your characters in front of the vendor because then if you do elite content you need to remember to have enough repair kits etc. in your inventory.
As far as the commodities go, there is hope in some kind of economy aspect, but I don't know how to incorporate that into STO, but I could see them being useful in some capacity if a game element that was engaging and encouraged palyer interaction could be worked out. By and large I dislike the commodites, they just waste time and waste doff missions. They are annoying to maintain in inventory compared to any realistic reward for them.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
As a sidenote to making the rep system easier ....
Could you add in "upgrade" projects into the rep system .... might even replace the current projects ....
For example ..
Omega Force ship item Mk X
500 Omega Marks , 15.500 Dilithium , Expertise & Commodities.
Omega Force ship item Mk XI
750 Omega Marks , 20.000 Dilithium , Expertise & Commodities.
Omega Force ship item Mk XII
1000 Omega Marks , 34.000 Dilithium , Expertise & Commodities.
Upgrade from X to XI
300 Omega Marks , 5.000 Dilithium
Upgrade from XI to XII
300 Omega Marks , 15.000 Dilithium
That way, waiting to finish before buying the XII items is still cheaper than upgrading, but people would start using the gear sooner because they would not "waste" it on the earlier mark models.
While it might be slightly unpopular, it could even be a track to always start with the Mk X item, requiring upgrade projects to get to the Mk XII items.
This same track could also be used in the regular crafting, where we can upgrade our items to Mk XII items through the crafting system ....
As a sidenote to making the rep system easier ....
Could you add in "upgrade" projects into the rep system .... might even replace the current projects ....
For example ..
Omega Force ship item Mk X
500 Omega Marks , 15.500 Dilithium , Expertise & Commodities.
Omega Force ship item Mk XI
750 Omega Marks , 20.000 Dilithium , Expertise & Commodities.
Omega Force ship item Mk XII
1000 Omega Marks , 34.000 Dilithium , Expertise & Commodities.
Upgrade from X to XI
300 Omega Marks , 5.000 Dilithium
Upgrade from XI to XII
300 Omega Marks , 15.000 Dilithium
That way, waiting to finish before buying the XII items is still cheaper than upgrading, but people would start using the gear sooner because they would not "waste" it on the earlier mark models.
While it might be slightly unpopular, it could even be a track to always start with the Mk X item, requiring upgrade projects to get to the Mk XII items.
This same track could also be used in the regular crafting, where we can upgrade our items to Mk XII items through the crafting system ....
That would make too much sense, especially considering we know that such a mechanic is possible with no new systems.
This is our goal - this is everything we've been talking about for months. The rewards from reps are great - the current gameplay of slogging through buying commodities and getting expertise and doing multiple events for enough marks to kick off a project at high tiers of rep is suboptimal. Our goal is for you to be able to play the game, play the new content, and get good stuff from it. We have some tuning to do and some playstyles to better-accommodate, but I really do think you guys will find what we have in Season 8 is a step up from our older reps in terms of flexibility and in terms of the rep journey itself, not just the destination, feeling worthwhile.
There are a couple things that make the new rep easier/more painless that you're not seeing yet.
1.) You don't have to choose between making progress in the rep and buying items you've unlocked from the rep - you can do both concurrently.
2.) In other reps, each tier of Rep increases the number of marks (and other inputs) required. In this rep, the project inputs are static across all tiers. This makes the Rep feel significantly less grindy as you get up to tier 3, 4, and 5.
3.) We have something coming to make Reps more alt-friendly. Even without that, though, if we were to port the Dyson rep system to the other reps, your "average hour of playtime" would have a much easier time making meaningful progress on all reps than the current live system.
4.) We're listening to all of your feedback and look forward to getting more hands-on experience as more of you get a chance to actually play the rep on Tribble.
All the stuff I am reading looks good.
If the new system restores 'the fun factor', while reducing the grind, will Cryptic attempt to upgrade the older rep holdings? (Omega, Nukara, and Romulan)
Forgive me, Devs, but could you PLEASE, for stupid people like me, be absolutely explicitly 100% obvious in every single case about rep abilities gained as to whether they are GROUND or SPACE?
Thanks. And Hugs.
Please reconsider ARC. Please make it optional, at the least. PLEASE.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
Forgive me, Devs, but could you PLEASE, for stupid people like me, be absolutely explicitly 100% obvious in every single case about rep abilities gained as to whether they are GROUND or SPACE?
Thanks. And Hugs.
Well, the power are always gained in the order, GROUND-SPACE-GROUND-SPACE-cap skill.
The ground and space abilities are identical a couple of times. The Cap skill can be ground or space but since its the only option there is little to mess up. Although I don't know if the new Dyson Tier V power is ground or space but the wording leads me to think its a ground power. This is reasonable since the reps before have granted 2 space powers and 1 ground power. With it being a ground power it will be 2 and 2.
That would make too much sense, especially considering we know that such a mechanic is possible with no new systems.
Yeah ... thats what i'm afraid off ... not enough changes to the system in my proposal for things to go incredibly wrong ....
It will probably never happen because of that.
S8 isn't impressing me yet.
So the rep is a copy of the Omega system, but lacks all the stupid commodities the other reps have.. ya, whoever thought of filling people's entire inventory with useless commodities for rep really deserves to be a designer. It'll still be grindy, at least not as annoying.
One comment is a little frightening, we all know STFs are getting OLD, outdated, boring... and we aren't to worry because eventually we'll have 2 whole new missions to grind endlessly? That is scary, completely underestimating the low morale of players if thats pretty much it.
We need very real elite content, and good amout of it, we need old STFs updated for insane power creep. Its so bad that new level 50s can join elites without much worry of dying anymore.
Agree, STFs can be a grind and get old. I wish Cryptic would make some randomly generated missions (similar to the patrol ones, but harder) for rewards in Choice Marks of Omega, Romulan, Nakura, Fleet.
Just add ONE Random Encounter PvE to the PvE queues, That way there can be an unlimited amount of experiences for everyone.
Or even just changing up the existing ones... Why does Colony have to be the same map over and over, how about random map, but same objective. Same goes for all the other PvEs. Why does Conduit need the 2 gennies on either side of the gate horizontally, why not vertically, with random spawns coming threw the gate.
I do wish that any PvE could give choice of ANY mark.
Agree, STFs can be a grind and get old. I wish Cryptic would make some randomly generated missions (similar to the patrol ones, but harder) for rewards in Choice Marks of Omega, Romulan, Nakura, Fleet.
Just add ONE Random Encounter PvE to the PvE queues, That way there can be an unlimited amount of experiences for everyone.
Or even just changing up the existing ones... Why does Colony have to be the same map over and over, how about random map, but same objective. Same goes for all the other PvEs. Why does Conduit need the 2 gennies on either side of the gate horizontally, why not vertically, with random spawns coming threw the gate.
I do wish that any PvE could give choice of ANY mark.
the space adventure zone is supposed to try and address some of this, it offers marks and commendations, and you can do things solo there.
I think a better question is how many changes to the game that may have improved it overall have been blocked because of fear of changes to a PvP system that has stagnated. Seems like every major update there is at least one rollback of a big change because it would tweak gameplay in a way that the verbal PvP community dislike. Whether that is a good thing or not, it's a pretty unique attitude for the devs of an MMO to have.
I think a better question is how many changes to the game that may have improved it overall have been blocked because of fear of changes to a PvP system that has stagnated. Seems like every major update there is at least one rollback of a big change because it would tweak gameplay in a way that the verbal PvP community dislike. Whether that is a good thing or not, it's a pretty unique attitude for the devs of an MMO to have.
I have felt and stated for a very long time that pve and pvp need to be separated, at the least separate skill trees, where you can spec to pve and pvp AND the skills are balanced to pve and there is a qualifier on their abilities for pvp. THis would make better play on both sides. Balance would be easier this way, and with further segregation, the roll back could be for either pvp or pve based on its actual impact compared to its intended impact. You could also have qualtiy factors on gear too.
Ultimately the problem is they cannot, or at least have not demonstrated an ability to, balance pve and pvp. They need to segregate and stop getting hung up on the balance issues. PvE and PvP are common game elements and they need to build respectable systems for both.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
They are waiting till I cap all 9 of my VA in this reputation before doing the change obviously.
Thanks to doing runs on all of them for the Entity event they are all starting into Tier V now.
I posted a thread about it under suspicion this was intentional from the beginning when they increased the purchase quantity for hypos, shield charges, ship batteries, etc. http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=886571
However, pwebranflakes posted in the thread that it is "110% a bug" and also the fix for it is part of the code for season 8, which means we probably won't see it go live for another month or longer (unless they can find a way to release the fix before S8 launches). :mad:
I posted a thread about it under suspicion this was intentional from the beginning when they increased the purchase quantity for hypos, shield charges, ship batteries, etc. http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=886571
However, pwebranflakes posted in the thread that it is "110% a bug" and also the fix for it is part of the code for season 8, which means we probably won't see it go live for another month or longer (unless they can find a way to release the fix before S8 launches). :mad:
What's bad its that was a really simple error. Someone flagged the MEDIUM power cells as buyable in amounts of up to 100 instead of the LARGE ones. It went live that way, i posted about it within a couple days and its been like that since.
What's bad its that was a really simple error. Someone flagged the MEDIUM power cells as buyable in amounts of up to 100 instead of the LARGE ones. It went live that way, i posted about it within a couple days and its been like that since.
Medium power cell's buy quantity being 100 is intentional. You can buy small and medium shield charges and hypos in that quantity also as well as small power cells.
What I don't understand is why it's taking them so long to fix when it was reported the day they increased the buy quantities and has been complained about since.
Comments
That is not what he is getting at. The commendations are limited to 1 per 20 hours, thus the timegate aspect of the new rep system for those that can't get on daily.
Dear Devs:
What does cryptic consider alt friendly, how many alts do I need to feel the friendliness, how many alts do people have in a game, where you can create limitless f2p accounts if you so wish?
Since we have three classes and 2.5 faction. I would say that three toons, will allow one to see all aspects of STO. This kind would also be the greatest buying potential (not that KDF had much to spend their Zen on for more then a year *cough*). So is the time it takes me to keep the rep going on three toons, what you guys take as a base? What percentage of accounts already does that?
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Its not just the % but implementation if to max the discount you have to complete T5 on one toon and there is still a significant time gate then this means the alts will have to wait for the prime to get T5. Now if the reward is at each tier that is still better, but really this reward of a discount for completion require completion to first be obtained for the discount to be used, furthering the timegate.
Now if they had a system where a prime gets the rep and then has a project it can run which produces a rep-xp token that is account bound then alts could run rep-xp missions (call it "theater of operations mentoring") for the amount of xp at each tier OR for the whole thing. This is in essence an account wide rep system without recoding much, just make a mission which rewards a token that is account bound a d couple missions whose only or significant input is such a token which rewards rep-xp and no dilithium.
Edit: if dilithium reward can't easily be segregated then make the dilithium cost of the project the same as the reward, then we turn in refined for unrefined, counts toward our cap again, but that is a happy sacrifice.
For example: alts. Because it's a pain in the backside to change ships, and always has been, it's preferable to have multiple characters, sometimes on the same faction of the same type each with their own ship. Add reps, and now alts need to rep up too.
Currency enters the game too easily. So we need a system to sink some of it out! True... and using reps for that isn't a bad idea. But the whole thing added a lot of layers of needless button pushing to do this.
Commodities were basically useless inventory wasters before. So to make them useful you expected people stockpile huge collections of them. This is because some vendors are cheaper than others and if you're doing reps on 9 characters trying to remember to fly each of them over to the right place every day is a pain. But you don't want to just camp out your characters in front of the vendor because then if you do elite content you need to remember to have enough repair kits etc. in your inventory.
Someone decided that they didn't want BOFFs being used as bank space for hypos etc. but then several years later someone decided they wanted to require 45 of them to be donated per day, and you can only buy them in stacks of up to 20. How that has stayed live as long as it has is beyond me.
To make upper tier gear more valuable there were several versions of the same set made (mkx mk xi, mkxii) - notably borg, that's fine, but then the sets don't work between different mark versions - there was a reason for that, I think because you actually had to do the elite modes for the good stuff - you had to earn in. But then add in reps, and.... why would you buy the lower tier stuff at all? That problem could have been alleviated by making the next tier up require the lower tier version - and that would have meant you progressed with the rep. But no, they that route wasn't taken.
A lot of the 'choices' dealing with the rep system have been optimization to minimize tedium. Not great gameplay, and some problems have more sensible fixes than others. How about a 'fill all' and 'fill all using replicated goods' button that just eats up EC? How about making mk xi gear require the mk xii, and then making set bonuses work across tiers of gear. That kind of thing.
As far as the commodities go, there is hope in some kind of economy aspect, but I don't know how to incorporate that into STO, but I could see them being useful in some capacity if a game element that was engaging and encouraged palyer interaction could be worked out. By and large I dislike the commodites, they just waste time and waste doff missions. They are annoying to maintain in inventory compared to any realistic reward for them.
Could you add in "upgrade" projects into the rep system .... might even replace the current projects ....
For example ..
Omega Force ship item Mk X
500 Omega Marks , 15.500 Dilithium , Expertise & Commodities.
Omega Force ship item Mk XI
750 Omega Marks , 20.000 Dilithium , Expertise & Commodities.
Omega Force ship item Mk XII
1000 Omega Marks , 34.000 Dilithium , Expertise & Commodities.
Upgrade from X to XI
300 Omega Marks , 5.000 Dilithium
Upgrade from XI to XII
300 Omega Marks , 15.000 Dilithium
That way, waiting to finish before buying the XII items is still cheaper than upgrading, but people would start using the gear sooner because they would not "waste" it on the earlier mark models.
While it might be slightly unpopular, it could even be a track to always start with the Mk X item, requiring upgrade projects to get to the Mk XII items.
This same track could also be used in the regular crafting, where we can upgrade our items to Mk XII items through the crafting system ....
That would make too much sense, especially considering we know that such a mechanic is possible with no new systems.
If the new system restores 'the fun factor', while reducing the grind, will Cryptic attempt to upgrade the older rep holdings? (Omega, Nukara, and Romulan)
Forgive me, Devs, but could you PLEASE, for stupid people like me, be absolutely explicitly 100% obvious in every single case about rep abilities gained as to whether they are GROUND or SPACE?
Thanks. And Hugs.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
Well, the power are always gained in the order, GROUND-SPACE-GROUND-SPACE-cap skill.
The ground and space abilities are identical a couple of times. The Cap skill can be ground or space but since its the only option there is little to mess up. Although I don't know if the new Dyson Tier V power is ground or space but the wording leads me to think its a ground power. This is reasonable since the reps before have granted 2 space powers and 1 ground power. With it being a ground power it will be 2 and 2.
Sorry for my ranting
Yeah ... thats what i'm afraid off ... not enough changes to the system in my proposal for things to go incredibly wrong ....
It will probably never happen because of that.
Agree, STFs can be a grind and get old. I wish Cryptic would make some randomly generated missions (similar to the patrol ones, but harder) for rewards in Choice Marks of Omega, Romulan, Nakura, Fleet.
Just add ONE Random Encounter PvE to the PvE queues, That way there can be an unlimited amount of experiences for everyone.
Or even just changing up the existing ones... Why does Colony have to be the same map over and over, how about random map, but same objective. Same goes for all the other PvEs. Why does Conduit need the 2 gennies on either side of the gate horizontally, why not vertically, with random spawns coming threw the gate.
I do wish that any PvE could give choice of ANY mark.
the space adventure zone is supposed to try and address some of this, it offers marks and commendations, and you can do things solo there.
sad.
What updates to pvp have occurred since launch?
I think a better question is how many changes to the game that may have improved it overall have been blocked because of fear of changes to a PvP system that has stagnated. Seems like every major update there is at least one rollback of a big change because it would tweak gameplay in a way that the verbal PvP community dislike. Whether that is a good thing or not, it's a pretty unique attitude for the devs of an MMO to have.
I have felt and stated for a very long time that pve and pvp need to be separated, at the least separate skill trees, where you can spec to pve and pvp AND the skills are balanced to pve and there is a qualifier on their abilities for pvp. THis would make better play on both sides. Balance would be easier this way, and with further segregation, the roll back could be for either pvp or pve based on its actual impact compared to its intended impact. You could also have qualtiy factors on gear too.
Ultimately the problem is they cannot, or at least have not demonstrated an ability to, balance pve and pvp. They need to segregate and stop getting hung up on the balance issues. PvE and PvP are common game elements and they need to build respectable systems for both.
Why was this put on Tribble instead of Redshirt so it could go live ASAP when players have been complaining about it for weeks?
(red text is a word you left out);)
They are waiting till I cap all 9 of my VA in this reputation before doing the change obviously.
Thanks to doing runs on all of them for the Entity event they are all starting into Tier V now.
I posted a thread about it under suspicion this was intentional from the beginning when they increased the purchase quantity for hypos, shield charges, ship batteries, etc. http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=886571
However, pwebranflakes posted in the thread that it is "110% a bug" and also the fix for it is part of the code for season 8, which means we probably won't see it go live for another month or longer (unless they can find a way to release the fix before S8 launches). :mad:
What's bad its that was a really simple error. Someone flagged the MEDIUM power cells as buyable in amounts of up to 100 instead of the LARGE ones. It went live that way, i posted about it within a couple days and its been like that since.
Medium power cell's buy quantity being 100 is intentional. You can buy small and medium shield charges and hypos in that quantity also as well as small power cells.
What I don't understand is why it's taking them so long to fix when it was reported the day they increased the buy quantities and has been complained about since.