Could we please get a list as what cruisers fall into the 'cruiser' and which ones into the 'battle cruiser' category as it's not always obvious what is what (like the Assault Cruiser (Refit)) or even if it's a cruiser at all (like the Breen Chel'Gret "Cruiser")?
As soon as I have this list compiled and finalized I will share it with you all. I know how important that is and want to provide you all with that information. I can tell you this right now though: The Assault Cruiser is a consider a cruiser (will get all commands) and the Chel' Grett is considered a destroyer, so it will not get cruiser commands.
ofcourse is balance ....Geko turned cruisers into escorts.Gave sci ships subsytems attacks ,cruisers this new thing and escorts got nerfed double tap (or gdf which helped on a escort).
you cant even get anything in pve with a escort since a2b cruisers will outdps every escort and romulans outheal recluse healers.
@Cryptic: I have been thinking you guys could buff all cruisers with an across the board 15% beam power cool down reduction to help make them more viable.
And possibly to proc the beam hits with a small tractor beam repulsor effect to simulate the size of the hit. The smaller the ship the more it would be jarred by the beam, especially when the hull is hit directly possibly debuffing the target's accuracy rating slightly.
But, I'm liking where you are going with this!
To quote the movie, Babe: That'll do, pig. That'll do.
As soon as I have this list compiled and finalized I will share it with you all. I know how important that is and want to provide you all with that information. I can tell you this right now though: The Assault Cruiser is a consider a cruiser (will get all commands) and the Chel' Grett is considered a destroyer, so it will not get cruiser commands.
Regards,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
Can you please include which lockbox / lobi ships will receive Advanced Comm array functionality?
Specifically - Monbosh, Galor, D'kora, Tal Shiar Battle Cruiser
Can't agree with you more. The absolute last thing the Romulans need is a buff.
Skilled correctly that tradeoff is negligible at best. As for cores, they do indeed offer power bonuses as high as 12.5 to two systems. No way is it a trade off for all the bonuses they get in return.
I'm talking about the x->z power bonuses, which can be quite substantial on top of the other non-fluctuating core bonuses. I have an elite singularity core. As with any other singularity core, the 12.5 x 2 power bonus vanishes or is diminished during the singularity lockout/charge-up period. You recharge that lost singularity by fighting at a power disadvantage.
I don't know why it's so common for people on these forums to turn everything into an us-vs.-them debate. I fly Fed, KDF and Rom ships. I'm not some butthurt Rom-only.
Cryptic is adding a mechanic to make cruisers more relevant to the game. Despite all the Rom trappings, the D'D is a cruiser. Its role in the game is mainly defined by what it is. Adding much needed relevancy to every cruiser in the game except those that are Romulan is absurd.
Singularity powers + battle cloak + high crit chance, together, define a role in the game, but not for a beamboat with a 5/5.5 base turn. Playing to the strength of the Romulan powers requires a different class of ship. For a cruiser, it merely adds contextual powers with a tradeoff.
So Rom cruisers are left not being particularly strong at doing anything particularly Romulan, because 80% of what they do in the game is exactly what Fed cruisers do. They will be the only cruisers in the game that can't fill what I imagine will be a highly useful role that is likely to change how teams play together. They will be the only cruisers without the ability to have an always-on boost to their turn rates.
Romulan crit chance requires some kind of balance by way off Fed/KDF boff passives. Adding a dynamic-altering relevancy mechanic to cruisers but excluding Romulans is a huge fail.
Well I think it's a cool feature for cruisers, but I hope this isn't the only "improvement" for ships that need a rev-amp, such as the Galaxy-X. That NEEDS at the very least, another Tactical Console!
Not to fear we have had some inkling that the galaxies may be updated.
Ok ... Love these new features. I'm guessing that the Warbird singularity powers opened this door.
Question ... Warbirds have a power reduction to "balance" their extra abilities. ... Is there such a penalty for the Fed / KDF cruisers as a side effect of the new system? Or any chance the power penalty will be revisited and maybe reduced on the warbirds?
ofcourse is balance ....Geko turned cruisers into escorts.Gave sci ships subsytems attacks ,cruisers this new thing and escorts got nerfed double tap (or gdf which helped on a escort).
you cant even get anything in pve with a escort since a2b cruisers will outdps every escort and romulans outheal recluse healers.
must apologize I never use A2B only aux I use is to struc... but thats me waiting for a nerf to an over abused power but eh.. Im just glad to see that MAYBE a 50 man escort will be unlikely to destroy a 2000 man Oddy... but I also like logic and reason...
Just for once, can't it be the Klingons who design something new and interesting and Starfleet that steals/adapts it for their own use?
Regardless, this does sound pretty good.
How do the Klingons compete with the federation for anything?
Honestly this has always bugged me about Star Trek. Federation is an organization of hundreds of worlds that share resources and technologies, where the arts and sciences are apart of the shared culture. Engineering is considered a prestigious occupation.
Klingons historically have stolen almost every major technological advance. Warp drive? Gamma aliens. Cloaking? Obtained from Romulans. At the end of the day there is only so much technology that can be gained from the point of a disruptor.
yea and cruisers get more tanking+ the new bonus.iirc escorts were for dps ,cruisers for tanking /team support and science for debuffs.Now is cruisers for dps ,cruisers for team support and tanking and science for debuffs/cheese in pvp.
Im sure that defiant with cloaking console is pretty fair and op compared to a cruisers .
hope you know that with a cruisers you can easly tank 2-3 tac escorts yet you say cruisers are underpowered.
this game is correct when escorts are the kings of spike and effective damage dealing, cruisers are the multi role kings of ether being best healers OR best DPS, and sci ships are the kings of debuff, control and denial.
this addition helps this be closer to the in game reality. a cruiser that can tank 3 escorts wont be damaging anything, just like a cruiser that can slaughter an escort cant tank more then 1. there is a vast range of effectiveness cruisers can have, they cant have it all at the same time.
ok so cruisers get that ,sci ships get subsystem targeting and escorts get ....?
I'm a huge escort captain but even I can see that cruisers needed some love. I do think that every heavy ship that has a 10 or under tun rate should get the turn rate ability.
the big difference between battle cruisers and cruisers is that battlecruisers can use DHCs. the other unofficial differences are that they might have 1 less device, lower hull, but a turn rate between 9 and 11.
that would mean the galor is a cruiser, but the dkora, adapted and monbosh are battlecruisers.
the big difference between battle cruisers and cruisers is that battlecruisers can use DHCs. the other unofficial differences are that they might have 1 less device, lower hull, but a turn rate between 9 and 11.
must apologize I never use A2B only aux I use is to struc... but thats me waiting for a nerf to an over abused power but eh.. Im just glad to see that MAYBE a 50 man escort will be unlikely to destroy a 2000 man Oddy... but I also like logic and reason...
yea you like logic:
5 gram bullet cant kill your 350kg body :rolleyes:
fighter plane cant destroy a carrier
yea you really are into logic.
not being able to get any kind of good reward in pve is also fine for you.
this game is correct when escorts are the kings of spike and effective damage dealing, cruisers are the multi role kings of ether being best healers OR best DPS, and sci ships are the kings of debuff, control and denial.
this addition helps this be closer to the in game reality. a cruiser that can tank 3 escorts wont be damaging anything, just like a cruiser that can slaughter an escort cant tank more then 1. there is a vast range of effectiveness cruisers can have, they cant have it all at the same time.
escorts should do damage...that's their role.If you think escorts kill in a pvp match is because that's their role...how many goal keepers you see marking goals?
Cruisers should have support role /healing and tanking...not damage like they do now.I understand you like cruisers but this is not only not star trek but it also screws up pve....you try to get first place in fleet events with a escorts against cruisers these days .Even without a2b they will beat you at healing.Btw have you noticed that cruisers turn like escorts now?
if you think cruisers should get double role tanking/escort then escorts should get tanking/healing double role.
also remember that Im not talking about romulan escorts....Im talking about old fed escorts (defiant ,fleet patrol...you know...the ships that no one like to have anymore)
As soon as I have this list compiled and finalized I will share it with you all. I know how important that is and want to provide you all with that information. I can tell you this right now though: The Assault Cruiser is a consider a cruiser (will get all commands) and the Chel' Grett is considered a destroyer, so it will not get cruiser commands.
Regards,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
Might be worth having a rationalisation exercise on ship class types? Seems like there's a fair degree of confusing redundancy.
People need to shut the hell up about escorts and romulan ships. Firstly escorts are great at DPS still even after the double tap nerf and secondly regarding the comments about warbirds having -40 power. Its not! Itsactually known as all power levels SET TO 40! Jeebus Christie!!!!! If it was MINUS 40 YPU WOULDNT HAVE ANY POWER TO ENGINES TO MOVE!!!!!!!
Even as someone who mains an escort, I reckon this is an excellent addition. ight go some way to making the game more interesting, and rendering cruisers usable once more.
It should encourage more team play I think. Coordinating strikes around a central cruiser or two in both game modes should be an interesting piloting challenge if theres a 5km range. At the same time now that Grav Well and Tyken's Rift are (apparently) working again keeping formations too tight is risky.
I do think they should give some of the powers to the D'D and Haapax though. Not the scimitar obviously, but the other two are clearly cruiser-y. Either that or tone down their power penalty slightly (again, just these two. Say its because theyve got bigger cores or something).
I think what everyone means is that by having four power levels set to 40 (instead of 50 as on fed/kdf) when in balanced mode, its a loss of 4x10 power....... which is 40 total. I dont do much rom side, but maxing out weapon power means im effectively down 13 power per subsystem on the other three levels compared to a comparitive fed ship. Probably slightly less if you factor in maxxed out efficiency but still noticeable.
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I like the idea of giving Cruiser class ships more of a unique role in combat. Group buffs are a good way to do that.
I really can't wait to see this new Battle Cruiser. From the screenshot we just got for the new buff interface, underneath the weapons, it might have 5 fore weapons and 3 aft, which would give it a great tactical advantage when fighting enemies in front of it. It also had dual cannons equipped, so this might be a Cruiser/Escort hybrid that leans more towards Cruiser where the Chimera had more Escort features.
It could be a different ship entirely, but I really hope that was the weapons display for the new Cruiser.
Comments
As soon as I have this list compiled and finalized I will share it with you all. I know how important that is and want to provide you all with that information. I can tell you this right now though: The Assault Cruiser is a consider a cruiser (will get all commands) and the Chel' Grett is considered a destroyer, so it will not get cruiser commands.
Regards,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
ofcourse is balance ....Geko turned cruisers into escorts.Gave sci ships subsytems attacks ,cruisers this new thing and escorts got nerfed double tap (or gdf which helped on a escort).
you cant even get anything in pve with a escort since a2b cruisers will outdps every escort and romulans outheal recluse healers.
And possibly to proc the beam hits with a small tractor beam repulsor effect to simulate the size of the hit. The smaller the ship the more it would be jarred by the beam, especially when the hull is hit directly possibly debuffing the target's accuracy rating slightly.
But, I'm liking where you are going with this!
To quote the movie, Babe: That'll do, pig. That'll do.
Can you please include which lockbox / lobi ships will receive Advanced Comm array functionality?
Specifically - Monbosh, Galor, D'kora, Tal Shiar Battle Cruiser
Thanks for any info!
I'm talking about the x->z power bonuses, which can be quite substantial on top of the other non-fluctuating core bonuses. I have an elite singularity core. As with any other singularity core, the 12.5 x 2 power bonus vanishes or is diminished during the singularity lockout/charge-up period. You recharge that lost singularity by fighting at a power disadvantage.
I don't know why it's so common for people on these forums to turn everything into an us-vs.-them debate. I fly Fed, KDF and Rom ships. I'm not some butthurt Rom-only.
Cryptic is adding a mechanic to make cruisers more relevant to the game. Despite all the Rom trappings, the D'D is a cruiser. Its role in the game is mainly defined by what it is. Adding much needed relevancy to every cruiser in the game except those that are Romulan is absurd.
Singularity powers + battle cloak + high crit chance, together, define a role in the game, but not for a beamboat with a 5/5.5 base turn. Playing to the strength of the Romulan powers requires a different class of ship. For a cruiser, it merely adds contextual powers with a tradeoff.
So Rom cruisers are left not being particularly strong at doing anything particularly Romulan, because 80% of what they do in the game is exactly what Fed cruisers do. They will be the only cruisers in the game that can't fill what I imagine will be a highly useful role that is likely to change how teams play together. They will be the only cruisers without the ability to have an always-on boost to their turn rates.
Romulan crit chance requires some kind of balance by way off Fed/KDF boff passives. Adding a dynamic-altering relevancy mechanic to cruisers but excluding Romulans is a huge fail.
Not to fear we have had some inkling that the galaxies may be updated.
One question, what KDF vessel is that shown in the blog? Its a dark picture and hard to make out.
R.I.P
Question ... Warbirds have a power reduction to "balance" their extra abilities. ... Is there such a penalty for the Fed / KDF cruisers as a side effect of the new system? Or any chance the power penalty will be revisited and maybe reduced on the warbirds?
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
must apologize I never use A2B only aux I use is to struc... but thats me waiting for a nerf to an over abused power but eh.. Im just glad to see that MAYBE a 50 man escort will be unlikely to destroy a 2000 man Oddy... but I also like logic and reason...
Sorry for all the grilling, but a lot of us are excited about this
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How do the Klingons compete with the federation for anything?
Honestly this has always bugged me about Star Trek. Federation is an organization of hundreds of worlds that share resources and technologies, where the arts and sciences are apart of the shared culture. Engineering is considered a prestigious occupation.
Klingons historically have stolen almost every major technological advance. Warp drive? Gamma aliens. Cloaking? Obtained from Romulans. At the end of the day there is only so much technology that can be gained from the point of a disruptor.
this game is correct when escorts are the kings of spike and effective damage dealing, cruisers are the multi role kings of ether being best healers OR best DPS, and sci ships are the kings of debuff, control and denial.
this addition helps this be closer to the in game reality. a cruiser that can tank 3 escorts wont be damaging anything, just like a cruiser that can slaughter an escort cant tank more then 1. there is a vast range of effectiveness cruisers can have, they cant have it all at the same time.
I thought that Orion at the bar stabbed you? Apparently you escaped yet again.
::: returns to current discussion ....
With this introduction (which is good), I fear that Romulans will get shafted a bit because of the current power penalties for the singularity cores.
Cannot help but think they will need a second pass for possible balance shape.
Problem is ... How do you keep such a balance fair when it comes to looking at Warbird cruisers vs. warbird escorts?
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
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I'm a huge escort captain but even I can see that cruisers needed some love. I do think that every heavy ship that has a 10 or under tun rate should get the turn rate ability.
that would mean the galor is a cruiser, but the dkora, adapted and monbosh are battlecruisers.
Escorts have enough. And as long as your in 5k of a cruiser that has an activated power an escort will Benefit from it.
Klingon Battle Crus also has Cloak system
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yea you like logic:
5 gram bullet cant kill your 350kg body :rolleyes:
fighter plane cant destroy a carrier
yea you really are into logic.
not being able to get any kind of good reward in pve is also fine for you.
escorts should do damage...that's their role.If you think escorts kill in a pvp match is because that's their role...how many goal keepers you see marking goals?
Cruisers should have support role /healing and tanking...not damage like they do now.I understand you like cruisers but this is not only not star trek but it also screws up pve....you try to get first place in fleet events with a escorts against cruisers these days .Even without a2b they will beat you at healing.Btw have you noticed that cruisers turn like escorts now?
if you think cruisers should get double role tanking/escort then escorts should get tanking/healing double role.
also remember that Im not talking about romulan escorts....Im talking about old fed escorts (defiant ,fleet patrol...you know...the ships that no one like to have anymore)
Might be worth having a rationalisation exercise on ship class types? Seems like there's a fair degree of confusing redundancy.
MY FLEET:http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=498091
No, the commands are independent of any skill or power level influences.
Yes, it should as we featured it as a screenshot in the blog
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
It should encourage more team play I think. Coordinating strikes around a central cruiser or two in both game modes should be an interesting piloting challenge if theres a 5km range. At the same time now that Grav Well and Tyken's Rift are (apparently) working again keeping formations too tight is risky.
I do think they should give some of the powers to the D'D and Haapax though. Not the scimitar obviously, but the other two are clearly cruiser-y. Either that or tone down their power penalty slightly (again, just these two. Say its because theyve got bigger cores or something).
@venetar90:
I think what everyone means is that by having four power levels set to 40 (instead of 50 as on fed/kdf) when in balanced mode, its a loss of 4x10 power....... which is 40 total. I dont do much rom side, but maxing out weapon power means im effectively down 13 power per subsystem on the other three levels compared to a comparitive fed ship. Probably slightly less if you factor in maxxed out efficiency but still noticeable.
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I really can't wait to see this new Battle Cruiser. From the screenshot we just got for the new buff interface, underneath the weapons, it might have 5 fore weapons and 3 aft, which would give it a great tactical advantage when fighting enemies in front of it. It also had dual cannons equipped, so this might be a Cruiser/Escort hybrid that leans more towards Cruiser where the Chimera had more Escort features.
It could be a different ship entirely, but I really hope that was the weapons display for the new Cruiser.
you sir made my day
MY FLEET:http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=498091
My tactical escort only has a cloak.
When I go into PvEs and PvPs, my ship's hull is so weak that I die within seconds.
Cruisers have always had the stronger hulls, which were used to compensate for the slow turn rate.
Even more reason to give D'deridex at least a couple of those abilities.
It was (the weapons display for the Avenger)
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=