Edit to add: Side note, even with implementation of better Fed/KDF BOFF traits, allied Romulans will still access and use them. Kind of defeating the purpose of KDF & Fed to get these advantages, when the Roms will still get them on top of their own subfaction specific BOFFs.
Good point. Even so however that's no different than a Romulan choosing to use a full team of Human BOFFs. They give up their uber-BOFF traits in order to do so.
So even if we get new traits for the other two factions, while Romulans COULD use them, doesn't mean that they would since they wouldn't have all that Subterfuge/Operative/Infiltrator stacking.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
These are characters on which they have spent a great deal of time, effort and in probably most cases money at one time or another. No, the argument is most definately not moot.
I still disagree - because regardless of how much money you sink into an MMO, expecting a single character to have access to EVERYTHING is unreasonable. The "play to win" model is bad enough without the capability to be essentially omnipotent.
You have the same capability to create multiple characters with multiple roles at no cost. Three races, three free slots. Do the math.
I still disagree - because regardless of how much money you sink into an MMO, expecting a single character to have access to EVERYTHING is unreasonable. The "play to win" model is bad enough without the capability to be essentially omnipotent.
You have the same capability to create multiple characters with multiple roles at no cost. Three races, three free slots. Do the math.
The point the OP and subsequent points are making is that one faction DOES have access to almost everything.
My Fed-Romulan has access to:
The best boffs of Fed and Romulan with Romulans being better.
All the Fed special universal consoles, some KDF special universal consoles and Romulan special universal consoles.
Access to 5 great bonus get out of jail free cards through singularity cores at the cost of 40 power.
Battle cloaks inbuilt on all ships as standard with hull and shield mods comparable to the Fed counter unit.
All current duty officers and special romulan only duty officers.
I dare say DDIS can come up with even more but that's off the top of my head.
We're not wanting 1 faction to rule them all, we're wanting there to be a difference between the 3 factions and for them to be remotely balanced. At the moment the Romulans have the best of both worlds while the Feds have the best of one and the KDF...are they still around? (just incase someone misinterprets that, I am indicating there is no need to roll KDF as anything they have, Roms have and more, especially if you go Rom-KDF)
If you cannot see what not only the players but the Devs themselves have seen then you perhaps need to play a bit more of the game and seriously compare the power of the romulans vs KDF/Fed. I can tell you now PvP is dead, it's RvR or a romlstomp.
I still disagree - because regardless of how much money you sink into an MMO, expecting a single character to have access to EVERYTHING is unreasonable. The "play to win" model is bad enough without the capability to be essentially omnipotent.
You have the same capability to create multiple characters with multiple roles at no cost. Three races, three free slots. Do the math.
First off, the issue of money spent is just an extra twist of the knife. I am far more concerned with players feeling like they have wasted the time and thought they have put into their builds.
Same capapbility to make these characters, yes, but to repeat, the point of this thread is not about kdf/fed having access to everything, it's about the Rom boff stacking having the effect that basically, there is a substantial and noticable disadvantage to rolling anything but Romulan/Reman.
The math is pretty stark. Everything is over a lot quicker when you have 5 Superior Rom/Reman boff equipped ships than when you have 5 fed and/or kdf ships wth equivalent set ups.
It's not a 'where's my I win' button issue, it's not a 'L2P' issue, it's a gameplay and balance issue. F2P or P2W, all factions should be euqually as viable. Currently, there is an imbalance. That's the point of this thread.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
maybe some people dont know what its like to have 600 mil+ invested, years of accolades, maxxed cxp, 400 purple doffs and so on, only to realise you may as well have been nerfed to uselessness with the introduction of LoR. as a longtime kdf, pvp had been a huge part of how i spent my time in sto. i went from being a top of the team asset to becoming a liability to my team for the simple fact i wasnt some freakish romulan with 95% crit.
so listen up cryptic. i am the one that popped more boxes than john holms. im the one that bought numerous lobi consoles and posted premium ships on the exchange. i was one of your golden eggs. after this though, i dont think i will ever again bother to invest myself so much into a single toon ever again. you burnt me.
human
leadership- +20 to subsystem repair, bonus hull regeneration
teamwork- 10% bonus on heals/damage buffs on ET, ST, and TT
vulcan
stoicism- 25% placate resistance, can stack to 100%
acute perception- bonus stealth sight
Andorian
passion- Bonus damage as hit points are reduced
acute perception- bonus stealth sight
Tellarite
Stubborn- bonus damage and placate resistance as hit points are reduced
prideful- chance of 20% damage bonus for 10 seconds on receiving critical hits
Bajoran
insurgent- +1.5% Critical Chance +3.8% Critical Severity, +2.5% to all adjusted damage
spiritual- chance of hull or shield heal on hit
Benzite
eager to please- +20 skill points to particle gens and warp core potential
efficient- +20 to efficiency skill
Betazoid
telepathy- +20 to countermeasures and targeting skill
acute perception- bonus stealth sight
Bolian
teamwork- 10% bonus on heals/damage buffs on ET, ST, and TT
eager to please- +20 skill points to particle gens and warp core potential
Caitian (eh, these arent all that... widely available, but whatever)
acute perception- bonus stealth sight
Stubborn- bonus damage and confuse, placate resistance as hit points are reduced
Ferengi
shrewd- 5% discount when buying anything with EC or latinum, 5% bonus to dilithium ore rewards
fortune finder- very rare item drop chance increased by 2.5%
Pakled
dumb luck- +4% Critical Chance, -30 Stun resistance, -30 Confuse resistance, -30 Placate resistance
things to make us go- +20 engine performance skill
(the thought of this doff being real, and having 5 stacked, and actually going into pvp with them makes me lol)
Rigelian
stoicism- 25% placate resistance, can stack to 100%
spiritual- chance of hull or shield heal on hit
Saurian
efficient- +20 to efficiency skill
leadership- +20 to subsystem repair, bonus hull regeneration (eh, they're president now)
Trill
Joined Symbiote- +10 skill points in Hull Repair, Starship Shield Emitters, Starship Weapons Training, Warp Core Potential, Particle Generator and Subspace Decompiler
leadership- +20 to subsystem repair, bonus hull regeneration
Gorn
Stubborn- bonus damage and placate resistance as hit points are reduced
territorial- crit chance and crit severity increase as hit points are reduced
Klingon
honorable- +3% defense +3% accuracy, +10 to weapons training
warrior- +20% ambush damage, +100 stealth, +10% faster cloaking recharge
Lethean
efficient- +20 to efficiency skill
telepathy- +20 to countermeasures and targeting skill
Nausicaan
pirates- +10% to all base damage, +2 second ambush damage bonus
insurgent- +1.5% Critical Chance +3.8% Critical Severity, +2.5% to all adjusted damage
Orion female
leadership- +20 to subsystem repair, bonus hull regeneration
passion- Bonus damage as hit points are reduced
Orion male
teamwork- 10% bonus on heals/damage buffs on ET, ST, and TT
stoicism- 25% placate resistance, can stack to 100%
Ferasan (eh, these arent all that... widely available, but whatever)
acute perception- bonus stealth sight
prideful- chance of 20% damage bonus for 10 seconds on receiving critical hits
all future generated boffs would have a chance to have 1 or both space traits. this would be a perfect additions to season 8, dont wait for the romulans to kill interest in other factions before you act, because they are so plainly better.
This is all well and good - but Romulans don't have their own faction, making the entire argument moot. Technically FED and KDF do have these powers... through Romulan players.
That said... it does seem to be the KDF is the only one that has no faction-specific space trait. It's nice that you can make a Joined Trill for either faction but that doesn't count. There's no Klingon counterpart to Leadership.
Making the whole argument moot? Really, since release or LoR all fed/kdf tacticals got nerfed and Romulan tacs are superior.
Thats the issue. I could care less if its theoretically not really a new faction, because the restrictions are in place.
Making the whole argument moot? Really, since release or LoR all fed/kdf tacticals got nerfed and Romulan tacs are superior.
Thats the issue. I could care less if its theoretically not really a new faction, because the restrictions are in place.
just romulan TACS?
lol my romulan sci toon has higher crit than my fed tac. and my fed tac has pretty much everything i can get for it, the sci isnt even trying!
No fleet gear, only up to tier 3/4 reps, only 3 out of 5 boff that even have operative, much less superior operative (only one so far)
>_> honestly, the crit rate for roms is insane. my rom tac is planned to be virtually identical to my fed tac, and will have about 8 percent more crit chance with identical gear!
Then you add battle cloak, singularity abilities, universal boff stations (wtf, the fleet dhelan is the fleet advanced escort with a universal lt, 600 more hull, a higher shield mod, three times the crew, and at a loss of what, the MVAE if it was purchased and 10w/5e instead of 15w).... and here is the real kicker that really ticked me off. the FAE requires a tier IV shipyard. The Fleet Dhelan is tier TWO!!!
even on the ground they outclass anything else. seriously.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Right now the Romulans so outclass everyone else we advise our fleet members to make only romulan characters there so powerful you dont even need the cstore ships for STFs the free leveling up ships are powerful enough to do any elite stf
KDF Romulan TAC is the most powerful character in the game for DPS in case someone doesnt know
Elite disruptors is why
Why build anything else ? 15K DPS is possible and more as well depending on your ship ect
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
i feel, even before LoR, frustrated that there was such a small selection of space traits for our boffs. i like all the ideas in the op and the rest of this thread. thank you
Don't know why it says i'm an ARC user. i will never use that TRIBBLE Cryptic!
KDF desperately needs a Boff ability buff. The Romulans have subterfuge, superior operative, and infiltrator for more DPS...along with battle cloak on everything. The feds have the leadership trait for more survivability. The Klingons have...absolutely nothing special, even more so now that Efficient was nerfed into oblivion. And the Feds also had Efficient, so the KDF were still worse off before.
S. infiltrator- +3.8 defense, +10 seconds to ambush damage bonus duration (2 superior dont stack, but 1 of each lower grade would), +200 stealth wile cloaked
human
leadership
teamwork
vulcan
telepathy
Stubborn
Andorian
honorable
territorial
Aenar
telepathy
territorial
Tellarite
Stubborn
teamwork
Bajoran
insurgent
territorial
Benzite
eager to please
efficient
Betazoid
telepathy
leadership
Bolian
leadership
eager to please
Caitian
Feline Instincts
warrior
Rigelian
honorable
Stubborn
Saurian
efficient
leadership
Trill
Joined Symbiote
efficient
Ferengi
shrewd
fortune finder
Pakled
dumb luck
things to make us go
Gorn
Stubborn
territorial
Klingon
honorable
warrior
Lethean
efficient
telepathy
Nausicaan
pirates
insurgent
Orion female
leadership
eager to please
Orion male
teamwork
pirates
Ferasan
Feline Instincts
telepathy
android
efficient
teamwork
Liberated Borg
efficient
Stubborn
Jem'Hadar
warrior
insurgent
Breen
honorable
Stubborn
photonic
teamwork
eager to please
Reman
subterfuge
infiltrator
i hope sci captains are happy, this could mean an unprecedented boost for them. and rom fed allies
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I'm not a fan of having races only able to get specific space traits. I can let it go with romulans as they have only 2 sets of boffs with space traits and only 1 specific to each race.
So would these suggestions above be set in stone or would you say these are the preferences for these races but they have a rare chance to get some other traits?
To put it one way 50% of romulan specific boffs can get 66% of all space traits. I would love for that to be carried through if more Romulan boffs are added with more space traits.
shrewd- 5% discount when buying anything with EC or latinum, 5% bonus to dilithium ore rewards
fortune finder- very rare item drop chance increased by 2.5%
I think these fit in very well with ferengi however I doubt the 5% stacking dilithium bonus would be allowed. I know it won't help you refine more but it would essentially let you get a lot more for less effort. I also take it the ec discount won't affect the exchange, only merchants.
things to make us go- +20 engine performance skill - perhaps impulse thrusters might be better as it will give a speed and turn boost rather than a +10 engine power at max stack. It will also afaik give a slightly better boost to speed and turn than engine performance.
dumb luck- +4% Critical Chance, -20 Inertial Dampeners, -20 Starship Sensors, -20 Subsystem Repair, -20 Power Insulators - I like the idea but the downsides immensely outweigh the higher crit chance comparing to insurgent. Perhaps +5-10% CrtD ontop would make people not marginalise these.
Anything else would be personal taste and I already made my post way back when about that.
I know this might sound daft but I have grown quite attached to my original crew (subsequent crew not so much) and really don't feel like switching all to one/two races just to get the combo I need for my build.
I guess I won't be missing out really if they're added space traits but still it's worth considering that while you or someone else might be willing to dispose of crew when the next best comes along, not everyone will want to do that. Which is why I would not like space traits to be a you only can get these 2 on that race type of affair.
Which is why I would not like space traits to be a you only can get these 2 on that race type of affair.
Then why have races in this game at all? Or careers for that matter? I want some more variety. The trait revamp gave us the framework for it, now we can make races other than Romulan, Reman and Alien actually matter.
Then why have races in this game at all? Or careers for that matter? I want some more variety. The trait revamp gave us the framework for it, now we can make races other than Romulan, Reman and Alien actually matter.
I'm not saying give all boffs the ability to get any and all traits under the sun, what I would like to see is that they can get some traits outside of those 2 space traits listed.
I'll use Bajoran as an example:
Bajoran
insurgent- +2% Critical Chance +5% Critical Severity, +2.5% to all adjusted damage
territorial- crit chance and crit severity increase as hit points are reduced
These are what about 80% of all bajorans will generate with. However the other 20% can get a chance at different traits from a pool of traits listed below.
Stubborn- bonus damage resistance and increased damage dealing as hit points are reduced
eager to please- +20 to Particle Generators, Graviton Generators and Electro-Plasma Systems, Power Insulators
teamwork- 10% bonus on heals/damage buffs on ET, ST, and TT
This could add a bit of variety to the game and mean if you prefer not to use boffs that you just don't like for whatever reason you are not forced to. It also can offer some nice combinations.
The trait revamp allowed us to get a whole host of space and ground traits on our captains and use what race we wanted without being lumped with pre-chosen traits which put us at a severe disadvantage.
Some races will be excluded from getting some traits altogether but can be generated with some different traits too. Also think of the ec you could make by having an orion female generate with pirates and either honorable or warrior
if you want to stack the boff your ship would benefit from the most, you pay the price of having all the same race. the traits they have are set in stone, and they most closely represent how these races were observed acting in canon. it would be much easier to search for the traits you want if it wasn't a big jumbled mess. and most traits would be a terrible fit on some boff races. its necessary for it to be this way.
alien boffs, i didn't include those, those could have any traits though. and would most likely be super sought after.
2 superiors dont stack, so i just use 1. i mean, the ambush bonus damage duration part doesn't stack with 2 of the same grade. i could run a mid level infiltrator too, but i find 15 seconds with the 1 superior more then enough, since i can cloak every 12 seconds. on a d'deridex or hapax it would be a good idea to drag out that ambush as long as possible, because your likly using beam arrays or single cannons.
I'm not saying give all boffs the ability to get any and all traits under the sun, what I would like to see is that they can get some traits outside of those 2 space traits listed.
[*snip*]
Some races will be excluded from getting some traits altogether but can be generated with some different traits too. Also think of the ec you could make by having an orion female generate with pirates and either honorable or warrior
If I'm reading you right here, you're suggesting a compromise between the RP/personal preference thing of having a crew of all one race without being necessarily forced into a particular set of Boff traits.
While this is great for RP, I just can't help thinking that you're either building your ship/crew for maximum PvP and/or PvE efficiency or you're not. That said, it's also true that your idea for a X% possibility for variation in one of the two traits a boff can have would lead to a lot of options for depth in terms of building your crew to your personal preference while at the same tiime maintaining the overall uniqueness of each race. So if I want to focus on the traits, I look for a specific race of boff and if I want to focus on the race, I look for the traits I want, even if the latter is much more costly in terms of EC and might take me longer to accomplish.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Sounds good, I really hope they pay attention to this thread. Keep it up
If I'm reading you right here, you're suggesting a compromise between the RP/personal preference thing of having a crew of all one race without being necessarily forced into a particular set of Boff traits.
While this is great for RP, I just can't help thinking that you're either building your ship/crew for maximum PvP and/or PvE efficiency or you're not. That said, it's also true that your idea for a X% possibility for variation in one of the two traits a boff can have would lead to a lot of options for depth in terms of building your crew to your personal preference while at the same tiime maintaining the overall uniqueness of each race. So if I want to focus on the traits, I look for a specific race of boff and if I want to focus on the race, I look for the traits I want, even if the latter is much more costly in terms of EC and might take me longer to accomplish.
Yes essentially. For all but 1 of my characters I'm not too bothered about race but at the same time while I may not be bothered I appreciate there are some that would be bothered. So I suggested a compromise, one that gives common combinations that are easy to find for those that only go for traits but still allows some degree of tailoring should you find nausicaans horrifying etc.
Also DDIS don't you think that would make aliens a little OP if they can generate with any combination and thus risk marginalising the other boffs eventually?
Looks like it might be a bit of nerfing to Roms atm rather than a full on rethink of boff traits for the moment. Shame, was kind of hopeful a rom with lots of subterfuge might be able to make use of MES, guess that ability is definitly back to the scrap heap.
Well, the subterfuge stacking was leading to some silly things... I had 950 base stealth value without using any stealth skill (I think).
The defence stacking also does silly things, but less severely so, imo, as it just puts every other ship at a disadvantage, rather than a specific class of ships (KDF BoPs).
this whole thread should have been in the PvP section, and here's the other part of -40 that hasn't been mentioned, less resists, less healing less turn and defensive bonuses from engine speed, consoles that boost power don't and can't ever approach the power levels of a non romulan ship.
less offensive strength, all dependent on where you put the points you have. the singularity core can boost one power stat, warp core can boost 2. singularity core's boost is dependant on current charge level, warp core is not.
you and the rest dislike the bonuses rom boffs give because of PvP, why you didn't put this where it belonged when that is where your real grievance lies is beyond me since that's the only aspect of the game where it actually matters.
PvE, more damage = better since it's a team effort. PvP more damage and being able to alpha strike and run = QQ
one of the few things and there aren't many in the rom faction that fits, romulans scared the TRIBBLE out of everyone, kdf included. notorious backstabbers. cryptic got it right.
romulan ships are weaker overall, and yet, you want to nerf them more not because of PvE, but because of PvP the red headed step cousin of STO.
what you need to do is petition cryptic for alterations in the content you're actually concerned about, PvP.
it's been a continual joke, they need to make new maps, new mechanics, such as nebula hazards that force decloak, drain shields, block sensors, etc etc. maps that have areas of strategic importance rather than just some junk in the way.
Dr. Patricia Tanis ~ "Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest."
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
this whole thread should have been in the PvP section, and here's the other part of -40 that hasn't been mentioned, less resists, less healing less turn and defensive bonuses from engine speed, consoles that boost power don't and can't ever approach the power levels of a non romulan ship.
less offensive strength, all dependent on where you put the points you have. the singularity core can boost one power stat, warp core can boost 2. singularity core's boost is dependant on current charge level, warp core is not.
you and the rest dislike the bonuses rom boffs give because of PvP, why you didn't put this where it belonged when that is where your real grievance lies is beyond me since that's the only aspect of the game where it actually matters.
PvE, more damage = better since it's a team effort. PvP more damage and being able to alpha strike and run = QQ
one of the few things and there aren't many in the rom faction that fits, romulans scared the TRIBBLE out of everyone, kdf included. notorious backstabbers. cryptic got it right.
romulan ships are weaker overall, and yet, you want to nerf them more not because of PvE, but because of PvP the red headed step cousin of STO.
what you need to do is petition cryptic for alterations in the content you're actually concerned about, PvP.
it's been a continual joke, they need to make new maps, new mechanics, such as nebula hazards that force decloak, drain shields, block sensors, etc etc. maps that have areas of strategic importance rather than just some junk in the way.
I am mainly a PvE player. I have dabbled in PvP but I do not like it for the most part. I mainly see from a PvE perspective but I try to give a more rounded view and appreciate this game supports both PvP and PvE.
What you just said is why we continue to get PvPers thinking PvE is easy mode and anything in PvP is better than in PvE. This exclusionist attitude has to stop from both sides and the OP highlights a point that while does have more implications to PvP it also has implications in PvE.
My Romulan tactical in a tvaro can tank better than any other ship I have due to consoles and bring as much if not more firepower too. It also get a few get out of jail free cards from the singularity mechanic (which is good) and the power levels are about what I got from an escort before S7. The same if you factor in elite fleet cores that give a power boost to 2 systems as you build charge.
Power creep is not good for the game, it will happen but Romulans have a very unfair advantage not only with the boffs but with all roms getting a leech console and a special heal as you do damage console. This leads them to be unquestionable the most powerful faction, coupled with better cloaks than most KDF ships, better stats than them and better layouts than Fed ships.
This post is about balance which affects more than just 1 aspect of the game. I have not been asking in the PvP forums for them to consider PvE ramifications for someone like you to come in here and throw it back in their faces by saying it's a PvP issue only when they try to get feedback from all sides.
Finally I want to play KDF more but right now I'm struggling to find a reason why you would choose them over playing a romulan and allying Fed. Well Ok I can think of 2, fleet disruptors and Orions.
I am mainly a PvE player. I have dabbled in PvP but I do not like it for the most part. I mainly see from a PvE perspective but I try to give a more rounded view and appreciate this game supports both PvP and PvE.
What you just said is why we continue to get PvPers thinking PvE is easy mode and anything in PvP is better than in PvE. This exclusionist attitude has to stop from both sides and the OP highlights a point that while does have more implications to PvP it also has implications in PvE.
My Romulan tactical in a tvaro can tank better than any other ship I have due to consoles and bring as much if not more firepower too. It also get a few get out of jail free cards from the singularity mechanic (which is good) and the power levels are about what I got from an escort before S7. The same if you factor in elite fleet cores that give a power boost to 2 systems as you build charge.
Power creep is not good for the game, it will happen but Romulans have a very unfair advantage not only with the boffs but with all roms getting a leech console and a special heal as you do damage console. This leads them to be unquestionable the most powerful faction, coupled with better cloaks than most KDF ships, better stats than them and better layouts than Fed ships.
This post is about balance which affects more than just 1 aspect of the game. I have not been asking in the PvP forums for them to consider PvE ramifications for someone like you to come in here and throw it back in their faces by saying it's a PvP issue only when they try to get feedback from all sides.
Finally I want to play KDF more but right now I'm struggling to find a reason why you would choose them over playing a romulan and allying Fed. Well Ok I can think of 2, fleet disruptors and Orions.
first, unfair advantage in what exactly? pve? how? it's a TEAM effort, not individual glory. PvP is where any OP skills, abilities, builds, consoles, loadouts are noticed and whinged about first, why? because that's the only place where it's player ego vs player ego.
second, don't exaggerate k? exaggeration tends to negate any potential points you might have made. not every romulan will have those consoles, not every romulan will have stacked superior operative boffs, or the ideal doff loadout. will they want them? yep. can they afford them? have a great chance at getting lucky? grinf the dil to buy zen or pay outright to get the consoles? no. some will, some won't. by no stretch of the imagination will it be every romulan.
what part of -40 don't you get? why don't you go look up exactly what power in sub systems means in this game k? and while you're at it, gambling...because that's what they rely on for damage to match fed or kdf, hoping that they crit.
i've got a 10% (rounded down) on one of mine, i've had long stretches where couldn't crit on anything. it's a gamble, fed and kdf don't have to rely on a gamble. more than enough power to pump weapons without sacrificing as much from other sub systems as romulans do.
this is purely PvP focused thread, their crit ratio does not matter in PvE, their survival ability is no greater than any other factions, less in some respects as they do not have the extra power to get bonus resists from shields, heals, and other boff abilities that grant such based on aux. everything romulan is a trade off power wide, pump damage you lose in def and resists, pump heals, you lose in damage. and if you've maxed damage output, you're not going to survive sustained heat from the ag you'll get.
you'll have to cloak and run, which means your overall dps will be lower than a tac in say an armi, who can stand toe to toe with anything. so where exactly is this huge advantage once you cover all the angles related to PvE? what is gained eh? some grand prize that i have never seen for outdamaging or surviving in an stf or other mission?
and in PvP? learn to fight. and realize bops are no longer king of the hill, game changes, adapt, don't try and get a faction nerfed because you don't like what it can do in PvP, or because it usurped the former alpha strike heayweight.
Dr. Patricia Tanis ~ "Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest."
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
second, don't exaggerate k? exaggeration tends to negate any potential points you might have made. not every romulan will have those consoles, not every romulan will have stacked superior operative boffs, or the ideal doff loadout. will they want them? yep. can they afford them? have a great chance at getting lucky? grinf the dil to buy zen or pay outright to get the consoles? no. some will, some won't. by no stretch of the imagination will it be every romulan.
Don't obfuscate, k? Roms can stack 5x 2.0% CrtH boffs: the rest of us can't. Let us not derail this simple truth with totally off-topic questions like whether or not some people have enough Zen, or the ideal boff-loadout.
Comments
Good point. Even so however that's no different than a Romulan choosing to use a full team of Human BOFFs. They give up their uber-BOFF traits in order to do so.
So even if we get new traits for the other two factions, while Romulans COULD use them, doesn't mean that they would since they wouldn't have all that Subterfuge/Operative/Infiltrator stacking.
You have the same capability to create multiple characters with multiple roles at no cost. Three races, three free slots. Do the math.
The point the OP and subsequent points are making is that one faction DOES have access to almost everything.
My Fed-Romulan has access to:
The best boffs of Fed and Romulan with Romulans being better.
All the Fed special universal consoles, some KDF special universal consoles and Romulan special universal consoles.
Access to 5 great bonus get out of jail free cards through singularity cores at the cost of 40 power.
Battle cloaks inbuilt on all ships as standard with hull and shield mods comparable to the Fed counter unit.
All current duty officers and special romulan only duty officers.
I dare say DDIS can come up with even more but that's off the top of my head.
We're not wanting 1 faction to rule them all, we're wanting there to be a difference between the 3 factions and for them to be remotely balanced. At the moment the Romulans have the best of both worlds while the Feds have the best of one and the KDF...are they still around? (just incase someone misinterprets that, I am indicating there is no need to roll KDF as anything they have, Roms have and more, especially if you go Rom-KDF)
If you cannot see what not only the players but the Devs themselves have seen then you perhaps need to play a bit more of the game and seriously compare the power of the romulans vs KDF/Fed. I can tell you now PvP is dead, it's RvR or a romlstomp.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
First off, the issue of money spent is just an extra twist of the knife. I am far more concerned with players feeling like they have wasted the time and thought they have put into their builds.
Same capapbility to make these characters, yes, but to repeat, the point of this thread is not about kdf/fed having access to everything, it's about the Rom boff stacking having the effect that basically, there is a substantial and noticable disadvantage to rolling anything but Romulan/Reman.
The math is pretty stark. Everything is over a lot quicker when you have 5 Superior Rom/Reman boff equipped ships than when you have 5 fed and/or kdf ships wth equivalent set ups.
It's not a 'where's my I win' button issue, it's not a 'L2P' issue, it's a gameplay and balance issue. F2P or P2W, all factions should be euqually as viable. Currently, there is an imbalance. That's the point of this thread.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
so listen up cryptic. i am the one that popped more boxes than john holms. im the one that bought numerous lobi consoles and posted premium ships on the exchange. i was one of your golden eggs. after this though, i dont think i will ever again bother to invest myself so much into a single toon ever again. you burnt me.
free jkname
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bringin it back....
*SIGNED*
options devs options xD
Making the whole argument moot? Really, since release or LoR all fed/kdf tacticals got nerfed and Romulan tacs are superior.
Thats the issue. I could care less if its theoretically not really a new faction, because the restrictions are in place.
just romulan TACS?
lol my romulan sci toon has higher crit than my fed tac. and my fed tac has pretty much everything i can get for it, the sci isnt even trying!
No fleet gear, only up to tier 3/4 reps, only 3 out of 5 boff that even have operative, much less superior operative (only one so far)
>_> honestly, the crit rate for roms is insane. my rom tac is planned to be virtually identical to my fed tac, and will have about 8 percent more crit chance with identical gear!
Then you add battle cloak, singularity abilities, universal boff stations (wtf, the fleet dhelan is the fleet advanced escort with a universal lt, 600 more hull, a higher shield mod, three times the crew, and at a loss of what, the MVAE if it was purchased and 10w/5e instead of 15w).... and here is the real kicker that really ticked me off. the FAE requires a tier IV shipyard. The Fleet Dhelan is tier TWO!!!
even on the ground they outclass anything else. seriously.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Right now the Romulans so outclass everyone else we advise our fleet members to make only romulan characters there so powerful you dont even need the cstore ships for STFs the free leveling up ships are powerful enough to do any elite stf
KDF Romulan TAC is the most powerful character in the game for DPS in case someone doesnt know
Elite disruptors is why
Why build anything else ? 15K DPS is possible and more as well depending on your ship ect
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
traits
leadership- +20 to subsystem repair, +20 Hull Repair, +20 Shield Emitters, bonus hull regeneration
teamwork- 10% bonus on heals/damage buffs on ET, ST, and TT
Stubborn- bonus damage resistance and increased damage dealing as hit points are reduced
insurgent- +2% Critical Chance +5% Critical Severity, +2.5% to all adjusted damage
eager to please- +20 to Particle Generators, Graviton Generators and Electro-Plasma Systems, Power Insulators
efficient- +20 to efficiency skill, Warp Core Potential, Driver Coil and Starship Batteries
telepathy- +20 to countermeasure, +20 Sensors,+20 to Targeting Systems
territorial- crit chance and crit severity increase as hit points are reduced
honorable- +3% defense +3% accuracy, +20 to weapons training
warrior- +5% ambush damage, +50 stealth wile cloaked, +5% faster cloaking recharge
pirates- +5% to all base damage, +3 second ambush damage duration + to 100 to stealth
unique
Feline Instincts- +10 crtS, +5% defense score, +.3% stealth detect
Joined Symbiote- +20 Starship Weapons Training, Flow Capacitors, Inertial Dampeners, Starship Maneuvers, and Subspace Decompiler
shrewd- 5% discount when buying anything with EC or latinum, 5% bonus to dilithium ore rewards
fortune finder- very rare item drop chance increased by 2.5%
dumb luck- +5% Critical Chance, +20% Critical Severity, -20 Inertial Dampeners, -20 Starship Sensors, -20 Subsystem Repair, -20 Power Insulators
things to make us go- +20 engine performance skill, +20 to drive coil
romulan faction traits
subterfuge- +2.5% defense, 2% more ambush damage +150 stealth wile cloaked
S. operative- +2% crit chance, +5% crit sevarity, 15% faster cloak cooldown
S. infiltrator- +3.8 defense, +10 seconds to ambush damage bonus duration (2 superior dont stack, but 1 of each lower grade would), +200 stealth wile cloaked
human
leadership
teamwork
vulcan
telepathy
Stubborn
Andorian
honorable
territorial
Aenar
telepathy
territorial
Tellarite
Stubborn
teamwork
Bajoran
insurgent
territorial
Benzite
eager to please
efficient
Betazoid
telepathy
leadership
Bolian
leadership
eager to please
Caitian
Feline Instincts
warrior
Rigelian
honorable
Stubborn
Saurian
efficient
leadership
Trill
Joined Symbiote
efficient
Ferengi
shrewd
fortune finder
Pakled
dumb luck
things to make us go
Gorn
Stubborn
territorial
Klingon
honorable
warrior
Lethean
efficient
telepathy
Nausicaan
pirates
insurgent
Orion female
leadership
eager to please
Orion male
teamwork
pirates
Ferasan
Feline Instincts
telepathy
android
efficient
teamwork
Liberated Borg
efficient
Stubborn
Jem'Hadar
warrior
insurgent
Breen
honorable
Stubborn
photonic
teamwork
eager to please
Reman
subterfuge
infiltrator
i hope sci captains are happy, this could mean an unprecedented boost for them. and rom fed allies
As a sci fed rom main with a gorn engi awaiting the joys of repland, it all looks good to me.
Some questions though:
Which, i any, of these traits would stack?
If so, how?
If not why not?
Do you propose a basic/normal/superior level system for these traits?
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
These two alone make it all worth it.
they all stack, no grades. thats a carry over from the embassy boffs, sorta stupid that rom faction boffs have them imo
So would these suggestions above be set in stone or would you say these are the preferences for these races but they have a rare chance to get some other traits?
To put it one way 50% of romulan specific boffs can get 66% of all space traits. I would love for that to be carried through if more Romulan boffs are added with more space traits.
shrewd- 5% discount when buying anything with EC or latinum, 5% bonus to dilithium ore rewards
fortune finder- very rare item drop chance increased by 2.5%
I think these fit in very well with ferengi however I doubt the 5% stacking dilithium bonus would be allowed. I know it won't help you refine more but it would essentially let you get a lot more for less effort. I also take it the ec discount won't affect the exchange, only merchants.
things to make us go- +20 engine performance skill - perhaps impulse thrusters might be better as it will give a speed and turn boost rather than a +10 engine power at max stack. It will also afaik give a slightly better boost to speed and turn than engine performance.
dumb luck- +4% Critical Chance, -20 Inertial Dampeners, -20 Starship Sensors, -20 Subsystem Repair, -20 Power Insulators - I like the idea but the downsides immensely outweigh the higher crit chance comparing to insurgent. Perhaps +5-10% CrtD ontop would make people not marginalise these.
Anything else would be personal taste and I already made my post way back when about that.
I know this might sound daft but I have grown quite attached to my original crew (subsequent crew not so much) and really don't feel like switching all to one/two races just to get the combo I need for my build.
I guess I won't be missing out really if they're added space traits but still it's worth considering that while you or someone else might be willing to dispose of crew when the next best comes along, not everyone will want to do that. Which is why I would not like space traits to be a you only can get these 2 on that race type of affair.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Then why have races in this game at all? Or careers for that matter? I want some more variety. The trait revamp gave us the framework for it, now we can make races other than Romulan, Reman and Alien actually matter.
I'm not saying give all boffs the ability to get any and all traits under the sun, what I would like to see is that they can get some traits outside of those 2 space traits listed.
I'll use Bajoran as an example:
Bajoran
insurgent- +2% Critical Chance +5% Critical Severity, +2.5% to all adjusted damage
territorial- crit chance and crit severity increase as hit points are reduced
These are what about 80% of all bajorans will generate with. However the other 20% can get a chance at different traits from a pool of traits listed below.
Stubborn- bonus damage resistance and increased damage dealing as hit points are reduced
eager to please- +20 to Particle Generators, Graviton Generators and Electro-Plasma Systems, Power Insulators
teamwork- 10% bonus on heals/damage buffs on ET, ST, and TT
This could add a bit of variety to the game and mean if you prefer not to use boffs that you just don't like for whatever reason you are not forced to. It also can offer some nice combinations.
The trait revamp allowed us to get a whole host of space and ground traits on our captains and use what race we wanted without being lumped with pre-chosen traits which put us at a severe disadvantage.
Some races will be excluded from getting some traits altogether but can be generated with some different traits too. Also think of the ec you could make by having an orion female generate with pirates and either honorable or warrior
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
alien boffs, i didn't include those, those could have any traits though. and would most likely be super sought after.
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Sounds good, I really hope they pay attention to this thread. Keep it up
If I'm reading you right here, you're suggesting a compromise between the RP/personal preference thing of having a crew of all one race without being necessarily forced into a particular set of Boff traits.
While this is great for RP, I just can't help thinking that you're either building your ship/crew for maximum PvP and/or PvE efficiency or you're not. That said, it's also true that your idea for a X% possibility for variation in one of the two traits a boff can have would lead to a lot of options for depth in terms of building your crew to your personal preference while at the same tiime maintaining the overall uniqueness of each race. So if I want to focus on the traits, I look for a specific race of boff and if I want to focus on the race, I look for the traits I want, even if the latter is much more costly in terms of EC and might take me longer to accomplish.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Yes essentially. For all but 1 of my characters I'm not too bothered about race but at the same time while I may not be bothered I appreciate there are some that would be bothered. So I suggested a compromise, one that gives common combinations that are easy to find for those that only go for traits but still allows some degree of tailoring should you find nausicaans horrifying etc.
Also DDIS don't you think that would make aliens a little OP if they can generate with any combination and thus risk marginalising the other boffs eventually?
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
"Trait - Subterfuge
The Stealth bonus granted no longer stacks.
Only the highest bonus will apply.
The Defense bonus still stacks."
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=859131
Looks like it might be a bit of nerfing to Roms atm rather than a full on rethink of boff traits for the moment. Shame, was kind of hopeful a rom with lots of subterfuge might be able to make use of MES, guess that ability is definitly back to the scrap heap.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
The defence stacking also does silly things, but less severely so, imo, as it just puts every other ship at a disadvantage, rather than a specific class of ships (KDF BoPs).
less offensive strength, all dependent on where you put the points you have. the singularity core can boost one power stat, warp core can boost 2. singularity core's boost is dependant on current charge level, warp core is not.
you and the rest dislike the bonuses rom boffs give because of PvP, why you didn't put this where it belonged when that is where your real grievance lies is beyond me since that's the only aspect of the game where it actually matters.
PvE, more damage = better since it's a team effort. PvP more damage and being able to alpha strike and run = QQ
one of the few things and there aren't many in the rom faction that fits, romulans scared the TRIBBLE out of everyone, kdf included. notorious backstabbers. cryptic got it right.
romulan ships are weaker overall, and yet, you want to nerf them more not because of PvE, but because of PvP the red headed step cousin of STO.
what you need to do is petition cryptic for alterations in the content you're actually concerned about, PvP.
it's been a continual joke, they need to make new maps, new mechanics, such as nebula hazards that force decloak, drain shields, block sensors, etc etc. maps that have areas of strategic importance rather than just some junk in the way.
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
I am mainly a PvE player. I have dabbled in PvP but I do not like it for the most part. I mainly see from a PvE perspective but I try to give a more rounded view and appreciate this game supports both PvP and PvE.
What you just said is why we continue to get PvPers thinking PvE is easy mode and anything in PvP is better than in PvE. This exclusionist attitude has to stop from both sides and the OP highlights a point that while does have more implications to PvP it also has implications in PvE.
My Romulan tactical in a tvaro can tank better than any other ship I have due to consoles and bring as much if not more firepower too. It also get a few get out of jail free cards from the singularity mechanic (which is good) and the power levels are about what I got from an escort before S7. The same if you factor in elite fleet cores that give a power boost to 2 systems as you build charge.
Power creep is not good for the game, it will happen but Romulans have a very unfair advantage not only with the boffs but with all roms getting a leech console and a special heal as you do damage console. This leads them to be unquestionable the most powerful faction, coupled with better cloaks than most KDF ships, better stats than them and better layouts than Fed ships.
This post is about balance which affects more than just 1 aspect of the game. I have not been asking in the PvP forums for them to consider PvE ramifications for someone like you to come in here and throw it back in their faces by saying it's a PvP issue only when they try to get feedback from all sides.
Finally I want to play KDF more but right now I'm struggling to find a reason why you would choose them over playing a romulan and allying Fed. Well Ok I can think of 2, fleet disruptors and Orions.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
first, unfair advantage in what exactly? pve? how? it's a TEAM effort, not individual glory. PvP is where any OP skills, abilities, builds, consoles, loadouts are noticed and whinged about first, why? because that's the only place where it's player ego vs player ego.
second, don't exaggerate k? exaggeration tends to negate any potential points you might have made. not every romulan will have those consoles, not every romulan will have stacked superior operative boffs, or the ideal doff loadout. will they want them? yep. can they afford them? have a great chance at getting lucky? grinf the dil to buy zen or pay outright to get the consoles? no. some will, some won't. by no stretch of the imagination will it be every romulan.
what part of -40 don't you get? why don't you go look up exactly what power in sub systems means in this game k? and while you're at it, gambling...because that's what they rely on for damage to match fed or kdf, hoping that they crit.
i've got a 10% (rounded down) on one of mine, i've had long stretches where couldn't crit on anything. it's a gamble, fed and kdf don't have to rely on a gamble. more than enough power to pump weapons without sacrificing as much from other sub systems as romulans do.
this is purely PvP focused thread, their crit ratio does not matter in PvE, their survival ability is no greater than any other factions, less in some respects as they do not have the extra power to get bonus resists from shields, heals, and other boff abilities that grant such based on aux. everything romulan is a trade off power wide, pump damage you lose in def and resists, pump heals, you lose in damage. and if you've maxed damage output, you're not going to survive sustained heat from the ag you'll get.
you'll have to cloak and run, which means your overall dps will be lower than a tac in say an armi, who can stand toe to toe with anything. so where exactly is this huge advantage once you cover all the angles related to PvE? what is gained eh? some grand prize that i have never seen for outdamaging or surviving in an stf or other mission?
and in PvP? learn to fight. and realize bops are no longer king of the hill, game changes, adapt, don't try and get a faction nerfed because you don't like what it can do in PvP, or because it usurped the former alpha strike heayweight.
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
Don't obfuscate, k? Roms can stack 5x 2.0% CrtH boffs: the rest of us can't. Let us not derail this simple truth with totally off-topic questions like whether or not some people have enough Zen, or the ideal boff-loadout.