Does anyone remember when the Leech was the thing everyone complained about as being over-powered?
I don't PvP, nor have I played recently to see an Elachi ship, but I assume like all abilities, there is a counter.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
i think there is some Haxing going on out there. Playing around Kerret I have hit some well known players in JHAS after being hit by this console from another player:
I have hit them with
Grav Pulse
GW1
TS3 of Chrono's
Subnuke
130 aux - and they are still able to run off??? Hmmmm
I still wonder why there is any point in sci skills
top that off with players being able to out run normal torps - just plain stupid - no ship should be able to outrun normal torps - never in the show could that happen
Does anyone remember when the Leech was the thing everyone complained about as being over-powered?
I don't PvP, nor have I played recently to see an Elachi ship, but I assume like all abilities, there is a counter.
There is and likely in the next lockbox.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
you tell 'em....they will cower with your threats of leaving !!!!
.
You know, in 3 years (LTS from 1 month BEFORE the game went live), this is the first time I've said I will leave ~ I may be on my own, but I may not.... my voice may cause others to step up and speak up, my voice and the voice of others may echo right in to Crypitc's CEOs dreams, where he has nightmares of players leaving because of him and the choice to skip "power creep" and go right to "pay to win" - Like it or not, my voice is being heard, if it has any effect we are yet to see, but I will be heard, and any one who wishes to join me will also be heard - we may be the few, but we are loud!!! we are proud!!! and we will not let this lock box s*** ruin our game or the name of beloved Star Trek !!!!!!!
(Remind me not to take up speech writing for a living - that hurt my head!! lol)
I shouldn't have to be the one to tell you not to pvp, pvp was never anything that interests me because of the big power difference between players.
The concept of PvP predates computers, people moan and groan about PvP being in electronic games, but PvP was about before electricity :P (ever heard of a little game called "Chess" by any chance?? The Idea was around long before that came to be!!!)
"Mankind" has always been obsessed with the idea of pitting wits against each other, we have found lot of ways to test ones self, be it through mental challenges (Chess, checkers, even games of monopoly can require you to "out think" someone) or be it through tests of physical abilities (Olympic games, football (UK and US versions of the word) and various other "sports").
So, telling someone to "forget" PvP, or to completely dismiss it, you are dismissing centuries of our own evolution, centuries of our history, you are dismissing AND disrespecting the ideal of being a human being!!!!!!!
We better ourselves, by testing ourselves. The best way of testing ourselves, is against, each other ~ hence the invention, the creation, the need!!! for Player Versus Player.
Actually, smart TRIBBLE, I took a day off from my Scim's, my Bortas, Oddy and my Gal X - I play PvE in a cruiser (as I'm an Engi on all 3 sides), but every now and then, to see the state of the game I will PvP in my cruisers, then jump in to my current, back up escort and see just how the game has leaned even more towards "Escorts Online" :P
Does anyone remember when the Leech was the thing everyone complained about as being over-powered?
I don't PvP, nor have I played recently to see an Elachi ship, but I assume like all abilities, there is a counter.
Unfortunately, no, there is no counter, and it is specifically described to be unresistable.
The only way to minimise (note that there's no way to completely escape) is to maintain high speed before the projectile (behaves like Scramble Sensors) hits you. If you can't boost your speed? You're stunned for 3-5 seconds at least.
1 post huh? is this some dev plant trying to change the conversation about this console? makeing a thread would take less effort then coming up with a solution.
That was exactly my first thought and exactly when I stopped reading... The console is indefensible and inexcusable...
The moment you get a kill without any real effort invested, it all becomes a joke.
I've apologized in Ker'rat to folks that died from certain things - I think I was as surprised (if not more) than they were. The latest was I dropped a Beach Ball out at a Sphere - somebody blew the Sphere - the Beach Ball went to the next nearest target (wasn't the guy that blew the Sphere)...BOOM. I fully blamed the person that blew the Sphere and denied any responsibility for their epic death.
The concept of PvP predates computers, people moan and groan about PvP being in electronic games, but PvP was about before electricity :P (ever heard of a little game called "Chess" by any chance?? The Idea was around long before that came to be!!!)
"Mankind" has always been obsessed with the idea of pitting wits against each other, we have found lot of ways to test ones self, be it through mental challenges (Chess, checkers, even games of monopoly can require you to "out think" someone) or be it through tests of physical abilities (Olympic games, football (UK and US versions of the word) and various other "sports").
So, telling someone to "forget" PvP, or to completely dismiss it, you are dismissing centuries of our own evolution, centuries of our history, you are dismissing AND disrespecting the ideal of being a human being!!!!!!!
We better ourselves, by testing ourselves. The best way of testing ourselves, is against, each other ~ hence the invention, the creation, the need!!! for Player Versus Player.[/QUOTE]
Well than take your beating like a man!!! Unlike some of your example games which yes require some degree of intellect and/or physic, this is one that requires skill with a lot of min maxing to overachieve the goal of a win. Either way you go you either stop pvping, or take your lumps like in any other sport or game. Remember unlike chess or checkers that has rules that never change and only so many possible moves, this game is ever evolving causing the sort of speak rules to change along with them. There are those people out there driven by creating a character solely for the purpose of pvp!!!
Most of the comments I read about the new subspace rift console I read are negative, some even calling it the end of pvp altogether. I disagree.
When I first got introduced to that thing, I was in Ker'rat, hearing a Klingon decloak, then everything went black and my ship kablooie (I knew that Klingon player before; he's got a good alpha strike. Combine that with a cloaking device, wait for the victim to be entangled with some borg, there's no need for him to have an extra powerful console). I was furious, and would have wished for an immediate nerf (I hate when I have no control over my ship).
Then I realized: This console is actually available to everyone. So I got one myself.
I say it's not the end of pvp because of these reasons:
- pet spam was not the end of pvp, annoying though it may be.
- cloaked alpha strikes were not the end of pvp.
- fleet elite shields, lockbox ships, ?ber-rare consoles were not the end of pvp.
And this console should be it? Why?
This http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=830461 is probably more like it.
As an example: I use a fleet patrol escort. If someone flies a bug ship, his equipment gives him an inherent advantage over me. He doesn't have to be a better player to beat me. And: I can't simply get a bug ship to even the odds. The same holds true for the fleet elite shields. I simply can't get them because my fleet isn't there yet. But with the stacking resistances, I find it very hard to even get the shields to weaken, much less get through them. And this is where the console comes into play. It's available to everybody, not just to hardcore endgamers. And it allows for a kill even if you don't have the best of the best equipment.
Yesterday, I was on a 5-on-5 pug match. One healer in my team, two in the other. Each team had one "bad" player, that is, inexperienced, new, or simply with a non-functional build. Since the other four use elite shields, fire is focused on the weakest link. Soon, the score is 5-5. Then both the "bad" players leave. We have a stalemate; no team is able to score a kill. Then the new console comes into play (It still took a total of almost 50 minutes to finish the match; plenty of time for really good players to win the match before). Needless to say, nobody complained in this match about the console.
The people I met - and who complained - usually did it along this line: "You could never kill me without that #*"?$-console". And they're probably right. But is that the idea of pvp? That some people can hide in invincible builds? Sorry, you don't pay me to play cannonfodder for you. I want to have a chance at winning, too, and not only after I have all the best equipment. You're no better player than me just because you have better equipment. You may well be, but how will we find out? Is it really so great, so important to win your matches 15-0?
This console is not an Iwin-button, not even in its current (high power) state. It's not a fire-and-forget instakill device. It needs careful timing, just like an alpha strike. And it can be survived, even if you probably need the help of your teammates. So the console is the counter to the elite fleet shields, and teamwork is the counter to the console.
I'd like to see it kept in the game. The way it is now.
(That being said: the one thing I can imagine to change is to add an immunity (maybe even 3 minutes or more) against the console effect after being hit so it doesn't turn into a game of harassing single players through multiple strikes).
if you think the console is 100% ok. then youre simply wrong.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
This console is clearly broken because science team can still be activated, whereas description clearly states boff powers go offline. Please fix this cryptic.
This console is clearly broken because science team can still be activated, whereas description clearly states boff powers go offline. Please fix this cryptic.
*cough*
I'm sure you're trying to be sarcastic here. How ever because it uses the same type of Disable as Tricobalt Mines/Torps/Photonic Shockwave, etc.. etc.. It is generalized into that type of a disable.. Which I think they should either remove or make easier to resist.
And hunh.. modified the thread name. Ok sure I should have added that so.. Meh, cool.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
This console is clearly broken because science team can still be activated, whereas description clearly states boff powers go offline. Please fix this cryptic.
*cough*
I would laugh so HARD if the next tribble patch notes say:
"fixed subspace integration console so Science team no longer is active on the target after being hit"
That would be the most awesome feedback response/fix EVER!!
This console works fine. Don't do anything to it because PVPers want it changed. Who is more important to the game, people who are just playing the game and doing missions or the PVPers. Restrict it from PVP if they can't handle it. This game is not ALL about PVP as far as I know.
This console works fine. Don't do anything to it because PVPers want it changed. Who is more important to the game, people who are just playing the game and doing missions or the PVPers. Restrict it from PVP if they can't handle it. This game is not ALL about PVP as far as I know.
Oh, a pve'r who I assume doesn't know how to read. How quaint.
Did you even read what the issue we are saying here is? We're askin for a way to counter it. Npcs don't use counters so anything done to it wouldn't effect how the npcs in game are Hirt by it.
And hey, if cryptic were to remove it from pvp wed all be very happy.
This console works fine. Don't do anything to it because PVPers want it changed. Who is more important to the game, people who are just playing the game and doing missions or the PVPers. Restrict it from PVP if they can't handle it. This game is not ALL about PVP as far as I know.
Not sure if a troll, or serious response..
But before the console even came out, when I read the description of the console originally, I knew it would be bad. Then Borticus's mission statement about the console also made me understand how bad it could be.
The Borg, the Elachi, the Remans, the Romulans, the Federation, the mirror universe, the Klingons, the Gorn, the Tholians, the Cardassians, and every race in between represented in PVE aren't going to be able to come to the Forums and complain about consoles and effects like this.
Your not going to see Donatra log into the Forums and say "Gee, you players are unfair using that Gravimetric Pulse to slow me for over 50 seconds.. That should be nerfed!"
Of course the PVPers are going to make comments, suggestions, complaints, and/or statements about something that can be considered unfair and even OP in the wrong hands because in a way we are going to be giving voice for those that can't. The PVE enemies that have to be forced to endure something like this.
So please, try to remember that while the PVP community is going to be complaining about effects that more then likely are either Over powered, or causing effects that a player like your self may consider normal, cool, and completely working as determined its only because the PVE AI can't and we, the PVPers, are the only ones who can be proof of something that is toned too high. Because lets face it, if it is strong enough to cause so much grief for a player, it is hardly needed to kill a PVE Enemy.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Comments
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
OH NO!
I don't PvP, nor have I played recently to see an Elachi ship, but I assume like all abilities, there is a counter.
Point is?
It even says it in the description of DEM.
I have hit them with
Grav Pulse
GW1
TS3 of Chrono's
Subnuke
130 aux - and they are still able to run off??? Hmmmm
I still wonder why there is any point in sci skills
top that off with players being able to out run normal torps - just plain stupid - no ship should be able to outrun normal torps - never in the show could that happen
about to hang up my torp boat
There is and likely in the next lockbox.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
You know, in 3 years (LTS from 1 month BEFORE the game went live), this is the first time I've said I will leave ~ I may be on my own, but I may not.... my voice may cause others to step up and speak up, my voice and the voice of others may echo right in to Crypitc's CEOs dreams, where he has nightmares of players leaving because of him and the choice to skip "power creep" and go right to "pay to win" - Like it or not, my voice is being heard, if it has any effect we are yet to see, but I will be heard, and any one who wishes to join me will also be heard - we may be the few, but we are loud!!! we are proud!!! and we will not let this lock box s*** ruin our game or the name of beloved Star Trek !!!!!!!
(Remind me not to take up speech writing for a living - that hurt my head!! lol)
The concept of PvP predates computers, people moan and groan about PvP being in electronic games, but PvP was about before electricity :P (ever heard of a little game called "Chess" by any chance?? The Idea was around long before that came to be!!!)
"Mankind" has always been obsessed with the idea of pitting wits against each other, we have found lot of ways to test ones self, be it through mental challenges (Chess, checkers, even games of monopoly can require you to "out think" someone) or be it through tests of physical abilities (Olympic games, football (UK and US versions of the word) and various other "sports").
So, telling someone to "forget" PvP, or to completely dismiss it, you are dismissing centuries of our own evolution, centuries of our history, you are dismissing AND disrespecting the ideal of being a human being!!!!!!!
We better ourselves, by testing ourselves. The best way of testing ourselves, is against, each other ~ hence the invention, the creation, the need!!! for Player Versus Player.
Actually, smart TRIBBLE, I took a day off from my Scim's, my Bortas, Oddy and my Gal X - I play PvE in a cruiser (as I'm an Engi on all 3 sides), but every now and then, to see the state of the game I will PvP in my cruisers, then jump in to my current, back up escort and see just how the game has leaned even more towards "Escorts Online" :P
Unfortunately, no, there is no counter, and it is specifically described to be unresistable.
The only way to minimise (note that there's no way to completely escape) is to maintain high speed before the projectile (behaves like Scramble Sensors) hits you. If you can't boost your speed? You're stunned for 3-5 seconds at least.
This was the old Sub Nuke for Sci captains, back in the day. Cryptic did not learn the lesson back then it would seem. :mad:
That was exactly my first thought and exactly when I stopped reading... The console is indefensible and inexcusable...
Er, did you...
TS3 the Chrons, get them to trigger APO, SNB, drop GW & GPG?
Guessing you're in a T'varo, right?
Hargh'peng
TS2 Subs
TS1 Chrons
SS1 (DOFF'd)
Beach Ball
TS2 Trans
Subnuke
Sensor Scan
DPB3 Web
Photonic Fleet
Nimbus Distress
Singularity Jump
Singularity Stabilizer
Breen Cluster
Tric Torp
GW1 (DOFF'd)
TS1 Trans
Plasma Shockwave
I've apologized in Ker'rat to folks that died from certain things - I think I was as surprised (if not more) than they were. The latest was I dropped a Beach Ball out at a Sphere - somebody blew the Sphere - the Beach Ball went to the next nearest target (wasn't the guy that blew the Sphere)...BOOM. I fully blamed the person that blew the Sphere and denied any responsibility for their epic death.
"Mankind" has always been obsessed with the idea of pitting wits against each other, we have found lot of ways to test ones self, be it through mental challenges (Chess, checkers, even games of monopoly can require you to "out think" someone) or be it through tests of physical abilities (Olympic games, football (UK and US versions of the word) and various other "sports").
So, telling someone to "forget" PvP, or to completely dismiss it, you are dismissing centuries of our own evolution, centuries of our history, you are dismissing AND disrespecting the ideal of being a human being!!!!!!!
We better ourselves, by testing ourselves. The best way of testing ourselves, is against, each other ~ hence the invention, the creation, the need!!! for Player Versus Player.[/QUOTE]
Well than take your beating like a man!!! Unlike some of your example games which yes require some degree of intellect and/or physic, this is one that requires skill with a lot of min maxing to overachieve the goal of a win. Either way you go you either stop pvping, or take your lumps like in any other sport or game. Remember unlike chess or checkers that has rules that never change and only so many possible moves, this game is ever evolving causing the sort of speak rules to change along with them. There are those people out there driven by creating a character solely for the purpose of pvp!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
JUST NERF IT
if you think the console is 100% ok. then youre simply wrong.
Do you even Science Bro?
Don't nerf the console at all. Hell, they could buff it as much as they want.
But...
Make it cost dil or zen every time you use it! It'd start small, but get costlier to use with each time.
You fool! Don't give them more ideas - they already did this with Tholian Web Breakers......;)
*cough*
@rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
@rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
@rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
I'm sure you're trying to be sarcastic here. How ever because it uses the same type of Disable as Tricobalt Mines/Torps/Photonic Shockwave, etc.. etc.. It is generalized into that type of a disable.. Which I think they should either remove or make easier to resist.
And hunh.. modified the thread name. Ok sure I should have added that so.. Meh, cool.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
I would laugh so HARD if the next tribble patch notes say:
"fixed subspace integration console so Science team no longer is active on the target after being hit"
That would be the most awesome feedback response/fix EVER!!
Oh, a pve'r who I assume doesn't know how to read. How quaint.
Did you even read what the issue we are saying here is? We're askin for a way to counter it. Npcs don't use counters so anything done to it wouldn't effect how the npcs in game are Hirt by it.
And hey, if cryptic were to remove it from pvp wed all be very happy.
Do you even Science Bro?
Not sure if a troll, or serious response..
But before the console even came out, when I read the description of the console originally, I knew it would be bad. Then Borticus's mission statement about the console also made me understand how bad it could be.
The Borg, the Elachi, the Remans, the Romulans, the Federation, the mirror universe, the Klingons, the Gorn, the Tholians, the Cardassians, and every race in between represented in PVE aren't going to be able to come to the Forums and complain about consoles and effects like this.
Your not going to see Donatra log into the Forums and say "Gee, you players are unfair using that Gravimetric Pulse to slow me for over 50 seconds.. That should be nerfed!"
Of course the PVPers are going to make comments, suggestions, complaints, and/or statements about something that can be considered unfair and even OP in the wrong hands because in a way we are going to be giving voice for those that can't. The PVE enemies that have to be forced to endure something like this.
So please, try to remember that while the PVP community is going to be complaining about effects that more then likely are either Over powered, or causing effects that a player like your self may consider normal, cool, and completely working as determined its only because the PVE AI can't and we, the PVPers, are the only ones who can be proof of something that is toned too high. Because lets face it, if it is strong enough to cause so much grief for a player, it is hardly needed to kill a PVE Enemy.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku