I'm sorry I didn't read the whole thing...I've just come from another thread with somebody talking about AtB as if only Engineers used it...so uh, you don't see Tac/Sci also being able to use this console and actually use it better than the Eng could?
Beyond that...those "crappy" abilities that the Eng has for survivability - those things they have instead of the neato burrito stuff that Tac/Sci have...are completely useless in the Darkball of Impending Doom.
If I were to put on one of my Eng hats (4 of 9 of my hats), I wouldn't call it a godsend...I'd call it another slap in the face.
Well maybe its just me than. I'm not saying that engineers don't have a high healing ability, they do a little to high as well.
But in the way of doing some damage we don't have a lot, you should have read what I put Sci and Tac can do dmg, eng can not.
We lose out on our healing if we want to do any kind of dmg and when we do that we might as well have been sci officers, I also added a little more at the end of my rant, but I'm not sure really what is best for this console.
I like this console a lot but I also know it will most likely get nerfed cause it has potential to be a right pain, what makes me sad is that when it dose get nerfed it will all be about tactical's again.
and I only got up to page 4 of this post then I wanted to say something, then finish reading it, I mean common give a guy a chance here there is 19 pages for me to go threw. lol
Well maybe its just me than. I'm not saying that engineers don't have a high healing ability, they do a little to high as well.
But in the way of doing some damage we don't have a lot, you should have read what I put Sci and Tac can do dmg, eng can not.
We lose out on our healing if we want to do any kind of dmg and when we do that we might as well have been sci officers, I also added a little more at the end of my rant, but I'm not sure really what is best for this console.
I like this console a lot but I also know it will most likely get nerfed cause it has potential to be a right pain, what makes me sad is that when it dose get nerfed it will all be about tactical's again.
and I only got up to page 4 of this post then I wanted to say something, then finish reading it, I mean common give a guy a chance here there is 19 pages for me to go threw. lol
As someone who also enjoys playing engineers, I do understand where you are coming from.
But honestly, space PvP, for all the issues there might be, is really a sci toon's game.
Yes, a tac will get the kills, but a sci is the one that sets em up. Honestly, while it is a damage-fest, that's more due to power creep and the state of the game. And tacs have the damage buffs to power through all that, including in ways like APA/APO3/GDF/Tac fleet, possibly even adding a de-cloak to that.
In a less 'controlled' environment, it can be pretty tac-heavy, due to the lack of coordination or teamwork more than anything else. With a well-used sci can seriously turn the tide though.
To compare:
Ground PvP I think all three classes are...mostly equal. I'd rather take a more balanced team than a more focused one, but that is just me.
Space PvE is a Tac's game because that truly is only about DPS. Others can do DPS, but at that point might as well be tacs since it's still all it needs
Ground PvE is a sci/eng game. Tac is usually there to '***** out', forgive the term, their Tac Initiative. Sure they can kill stuff, but they lack a lot of survivability in ground PvE (elite ground STFs is mostly what I mean btw), compared to the other two who can live. Not to mention engies are great at group killing with bombs, mines, and Orbital Strike, and a sci can use holds, stuns, etc to make sure they stay nice and together to die.
But I kinda got off topic.
I do know your pain, but honestly, this console really isn't a part of the 'tac vs sci vs eng' thing.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
As someone who also enjoys playing engineers, I do understand where you are coming from.
But honestly, space PvP, for all the issues there might be, is really a sci toon's game.
Yes, a tac will get the kills, but a sci is the one that sets em up. Honestly, while it is a damage-fest, that's more due to power creep and the state of the game. And tacs have the damage buffs to power through all that, including in ways like APA/APO3/GDF/Tac fleet, possibly even adding a de-cloak to that.
In a less 'controlled' environment, it can be pretty tac-heavy, due to the lack of coordination or teamwork more than anything else. With a well-used sci can seriously turn the tide though.
To compare:
Ground PvP I think all three classes are...mostly equal. I'd rather take a more balanced team than a more focused one, but that is just me.
Space PvE is a Tac's game because that truly is only about DPS. Others can do DPS, but at that point might as well be tacs since it's still all it needs
Ground PvE is a sci/eng game. Tac is usually there to '***** out', forgive the term, their Tac Initiative. Sure they can kill stuff, but they lack a lot of survivability in ground PvE (elite ground STFs is mostly what I mean btw), compared to the other two who can live. Not to mention engies are great at group killing with bombs, mines, and Orbital Strike, and a sci can use holds, stuns, etc to make sure they stay nice and together to die.
But I kinda got off topic.
I do know your pain, but honestly, this console really isn't a part of the 'tac vs sci vs eng' thing.
Oh I know, I completely understand that, but as you said and I quot.
"But honestly, space PvP, for all the issues there might be, is really a sci toon's game.
Yes, a tac will get the kills, but a sci is the one that sets em up. Honestly, while it is a damage-fest, that's more due to power creep and the state of the game. And tacs have the damage buffs to power through all that, including in ways like APA/APO3/GDF/Tac fleet, possibly even adding a de-cloak to that."
Engineers don't really get a look in do we?
All we can do is join in a game pretty much watch from a distance and maybe throw out a heal or two when someone is out of position and hurting. If were to tough we are ignored if were to weak we get ganged up on.
As I have already said, if this console was nerfed but not to much, as I said as it is. "I think its a little OP" and given to engineers only to use and that our heals in exchange get lowered a little, it would make it fun for us in PVP giving us a reason to join and making us a part of the team for a change.
When I talk to my PVP friends its always the same thing "A good team always brings 3 Tactical and 2 Science" and every time I hear that I feel so let down and unwanted for PVP games, where I tried to make my engineer into something that would be useful from the start for PVP, ended up being something of 3 years of my life and time wasted really.
The power/console is overpowered when u see bad players suddenly appear in kerrat/arena/capnsplode (which u don't usually see them there) and they using the same power/console to try to score a kill, and they succeed. Which is exactly whats happening these days. At least ques pop faster, and kerrat is full. Also a good reason to retaliate.
[10:49] [Combat (Self)] Your Proton Barrage deals 96581 (43411) Proton(Critical) to Seto.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
The power/console is overpowered when u see bad players suddenly appear in kerrat/arena/capnsplode (which u don't usually see them there) and they using the same power/console to try to score a kill, and they succeed. Which is exactly whats happening these days. At least ques pop faster, and kerrat is full. Also a good reason to retaliate.
they dont succeed because I logout .When I log back in they are raging ...which is cool because thats how games should be.Rage keeps the blood preasure high and is good for you if you dont do sports
Oh I know, I completely understand that, but as you said and I quot.
"But honestly, space PvP, for all the issues there might be, is really a sci toon's game.
Yes, a tac will get the kills, but a sci is the one that sets em up. Honestly, while it is a damage-fest, that's more due to power creep and the state of the game. And tacs have the damage buffs to power through all that, including in ways like APA/APO3/GDF/Tac fleet, possibly even adding a de-cloak to that."
Engineers don't really get a look in do we?
All we can do is join in a game pretty much watch from a distance and maybe throw out a heal or two when someone is out of position and hurting. If were to tough we are ignored if were to weak we get ganged up on.
As I have already said, if this console was nerfed but not to much, as I said as it is. "I think its a little OP" and given to engineers only to use and that our heals in exchange get lowered a little, it would make it fun for us in PVP giving us a reason to join and making us a part of the team for a change.
When I talk to my PVP friends its always the same thing "A good team always brings 3 Tactical and 2 Science" and every time I hear that I feel so let down and unwanted for PVP games, where I tried to make my engineer into something that would be useful from the start for PVP, ended up being something of 3 years of my life and time wasted really.
Yep, not denying that at all. It really does suck.
But, I'm sorry to say, that idea doesn't help engineers. That would only make it worse, because that power given to them would only really make people think 'oh look, an engineer, I guess he's going to use the 'guaranteed shut down ability', yep, there he goes now'
That console, even if nerfed 'a little' would still be tremendously overpowered. People would know engineers for their built-in 'I win' button instead, and then they wouldn't want to play against or with them, because they would be considered cheap, and thus used even less.
Engineers need something, I agree totally. But something like this, isn't what they need. Because even then, it still wouldn't be an APA, or an SNB, or Sensor Scan. It wouldn't really be a force multiplier, which is the real thing I feel an engineer lacks.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
We lose out on our healing if we want to do any kind of dmg and when we do that we might as well have been sci officers, I also added a little more at the end of my rant, but I'm not sure really what is best for this console.
Um, anybody loses out on possible healing the more they try to do damage. The only differences between the Careers are the 5 innate abilities (space) and the 2 potential traits (space). I just talk about space, in general - since I don't do ground outside of leveling.
I like this console a lot but I also know it will most likely get nerfed cause it has potential to be a right pain, what makes me sad is that when it dose get nerfed it will all be about tactical's again.
I disagree with that entirely. Currently, Sci gains the most from it - then Tac - and then Eng, imho.
Sci can SNB - strip buffs and lay into the target.
Tac can APA - ramp up their damage as they lay into the target.
Eng can...better deal...with uh...er...the stuff the person...well, they're not doing anything.
Meanwhile, I see the Eng as losing the most - since the Eng abilities and traits which might otherwise keep them alive while being attacked...can't be used.
and I only got up to page 4 of this post then I wanted to say something, then finish reading it, I mean common give a guy a chance here there is 19 pages for me to go threw. lol
Just a case that it's more likely that the Eng is going to be in the slowboat and the Eng abilities/traits are about "survival"...it's what the Eng's got, and this takes that away. Sure, Tac loses their ability do damage and the Sci loses their lil' bag 'o tricks...but this is a survival thing, so I see the Eng losing the most.
Well, the console is not as bad as it seems at first. Surely it slows doen to a crawl and takes your sight, however... it has a very limited radius. I noticed this in my battlecruiser (a Tor'kath), because somehow... it eluded the damage (mostly). The reason for this: its fast enough to clear the epicenter even being slowed down to a crawl. There is some kinetic damage to aft shields, but its neglectable. And in my Scourge Destroyer its even easier to avoid it. Just keep the engines on full burn and you will clear it. Of course you can be tractored, but you all know what to do when that happens. As such it takes only sight for a few seconds. If you are in a carrier or a dreadnought, that won't help you though. I haven't tested it but EPtE should help. If it can be avoided that easily it doesn't need a nerf, i guess. And... oh yes... try to get shields between you and the console epicenter... it IS kinetic damage, and a lot of it. Good luck and keep your powder dry.
Well, the console is not as bad as it seems at first. Surely it slows doen to a crawl and takes your sight, however... it has a very limited radius. I noticed this in my battlecruiser (a Tor'kath), because somehow... it eluded the damage (mostly). The reason for this: its fast enough to clear the epicenter even being slowed down to a crawl. There is some kinetic damage to aft shields, but its neglectable. And in my Scourge Destroyer its even easier to avoid it. Just keep the engines on full burn and you will clear it. Of course you can be tractored, but you all know what to do when that happens. As such it takes only sight for a few seconds. If you are in a carrier or a dreadnought, that won't help you though. I haven't tested it but EPtE should help. If it can be avoided that easily it doesn't need a nerf, i guess. And... oh yes... try to get shields between you and the console epicenter... it IS kinetic damage, and a lot of it. Good luck and keep your powder dry.
And how much reaction time do you have if they fire it point-blank and then snap a tractor on? It's not like you can activate any counters while you're under its effect......
The damage is not an issue. You didn't even mention the main problem, which is the stun.
Plus, you say that none of that helps you in a carrier and a dreadnought - so you say a single console can render anyone in a large ship helpless?
And how much reaction time do you have if they fire it point-blank and then snap a tractor on? It's not like you can activate any counters while you're under its effect......
The damage is not an issue. You didn't even mention the main problem, which is the stun.
Plus, you say that none of that helps you in a carrier and a dreadnought - so you say a single console can render anyone in a large ship helpless?
cryptic is getting stun/disable happy again
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
it could have been made into 2-3 difference consoles each slightly op and different just from the 3 things it does.
thats too much for a console,
and i still think it should have been a torp like the harpeng rather then a uni console.
I don't disagree, but the Jem console certainly falls in that ballpark w/the team pseudo APO+slow and confuse immunity.
Few complained about the cooldown reduction doffs, but many complained about the SS doff that increases cooldowns.
People complained about the drain from plas leech, completely missing that the gain was the more powerful effect (not counting when it was broken and stacked from multiple targets and resists didn't work).
Again, this is a bad power creep, but generally I still see much more complaining when it's on the Sci side than the Tac or even the survivability realm of Engineers.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
tac based creep is easy to counter. its sci based stuff that truly ruins you. a pet that just deals damage is harmless, give it a sci power, and it turns everything on its head
Imo, it's a combination of Sci and Tac. Though there was a time where Tac alone did the job and debuffs weren't needed that much (around the time rep system came out w/fleet ships when people hit level 2, but not 4 yet as an example). Before that there was a time where Engineers circling the wagons had enough dps to kill a Tac who lingered too long. On the other hand it's been even longer that I can remember since a Sci ship could debuff and still do enough damage on its own to kill an Escort like it used to (they used to be a very hard counter to Escorts, to the point where Escorts were looked down upon in the queues).
Cryptic hasn't released a high damage dealing pet that's on par w/what a player can put out, but there's nothing stopping them from doing so though. They have given out some Tac debuff powers w/the Sci debuff powers. They've made most pets into debuffing machines, since the start really.
I guess my point is people seem less inclined to point out power creep problems they benefit from than they're on the receiving end of. This includes the survivability powers as well.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Did 4 C/H today - all were fun - the last one was a blast - total spam fest - Fed/KDF
ALL 10 FEDs were engaged against the 10 KDF - it was OP and crazy and tons of fun
It was the most engaged I have seen both sides in a long time and it was cheese filled - yum!!!
Really I think Cryptic could be on to something with this new cheese/spam direction.
Sure the one shot wonder tacscorts were pissed - but that's what made it so fun - it was just spammalot.
Great job Cryptic!!!!!!!:):):)
Totally agree with this. I've been going into FvK C&H's for the past few weeks with some friends and fleetmates and it's been FANTASTIC! We went in at first with low expectations, and we got every aspect of cheese thrown at us, so we started putting some of our own on and it was SOOOO GOOD! Think Arena only with two or even three times the players, over a much larger area with a few optional things to hold onto for the hardcore C&H'er who wants to win. The majority of us just end up in a massive mash-up in the centre of the map that goes on for like half an hour. any pretense of holding something for a pittance of dilithium lost in favor of a good brawl ^_^
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
i thought it was said that only BO powers couldnt be used while stunned by the big black ball?
everything is blacked out.
it takes me back to the old days when snb/vm would do this....
Shockingly it's even worse than the old SNB+VM combo. For someone to use that they had to be a sci captain in a ship with a Lt Cmdr sci slot or greater. With this console, anyone can use it and it has added bonus of blinding the player... Not that it'd matter since you can't do anything anyway.
When I talk to my PVP friends its always the same thing "A good team always brings 3 Tactical and 2 Science" and every time I hear that I feel so let down and unwanted for PVP games, where I tried to make my engineer into something that would be useful from the start for PVP, ended up being something of 3 years of my life and time wasted really.
Ok.. I think it is time you make sure you say Engi/Healer when referring to the Engineer. My first character was an Engineer. An Engineer/Escort. And I was dangerous in that ship back in the P2P days. When having a life time sub was a god send because it ment not having to pay a monthly sub for a poor man like me to enjoy. Back before the Skill changes and F2P.
Even after F2P I later jumped into my Engi/Escort when the Kumari came out, and did some dirty things with it.
An Engi can't deal damage you say? PSHAW! I've seen plenty of my share of Engis deal damage.
Nadion inversion can help get kills in the right ship. So can EPS.
And about your post above, trust me, I HATE..absolutely HATE that the Engineer has basically been thrown to the wayside where PVP is concerned. Currently in space, since the ship matters more then the Career, it is why the Sci and the Tac work better. The Tac can bring the boom. While the Sci brings the paint thinner.
How ever an Engi can still work. But your like the fat kid being chosen for sports. Unless your better at the role of healer, or can do more damage then your friends, they are going to pick you last.. if at all.
But that is not what this thread is about. It is not about who benefits most from this new console (coughsciencecough) it is about what may be tweeked too high for this console where PVP is concerned.
I've already stated in previous posts my thoughts on the console.
The Disable is really the ONLY Thing I have a problem with. Since it is supposed to be unresistable, I'd change that if possible. If not then I'd lower how long the effect lasts.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Well thanks guys it has been kind of you all to take the time to read what I have said and taken the time to answer, I have read all of what you all have had to say, I'm glad to see that the "Eng/healer" is of some people concern and I totally agree that this new console has its problems and needs a bit of tweaking.
Perhaps maybe when this console has been fixed and working as intended people might warm up to it.
I don't see it as an I win button but its not exactly a bag of kittens either, the only defense I have seen is to hit evasive, Omega or Aux to Engines for the speed boost just before impact and I really don't think it is working as intended as I have read in other posts that its not meant to turn off Captain skills but it dose anyway.
Only time will tell how this gets played out, I just hope that when cryptic fixes this its not nerfed to much to the point it turns into an expensive Gravity well light show.
I don't see it as an I win button but its not exactly a bag of kittens either, the only defense I have seen is to hit evasive, Omega or Aux to Engines for the speed boost just before impact and I really don't think it is working as intended as I have read in other posts that its not meant to turn off Captain skills but it dose anyway.
Only time will tell how this gets played out, I just hope that when cryptic fixes this its not nerfed to much to the point it turns into an expensive Gravity well light show.
Is this console a guaranteed kill? No, most definitely not. Though more often than not, it's very difficult to evade. Case in point, just came out of a FvK C&H. The Fed side is just a group of very casual pug, many of them I suspect are 1st timer or PvEer grinding for dil. The Klink side is much more organized, not a premade but, an above average team with some very good players. The writing was on the wall right from the beginning. Yet, a few Klinks kept abusing the subspace rupture console. I was hit twice, survived once despite being gang up like 3 to 1. The second time I was hit, I hit APO3 just before - no good, stuck in a blackhole with tray greyed out.
The worst part is the behavior & maturity of the said players. So I asked them to refrain from using the said console in chat with "please" at the end. Was met with laughters and immature taunts. So I said I'd be taking screenshots and document how this console is being abused in PvP and let people judge this. One of the Klingon kid taunted me to post them and called me a f****** TRIBBLE, in direct violation of the games TOS. Normally, I don't post this but since he taunted me to post it so I will oblige and let you see : K'Vork is &@*#)% TRIBBLE... K'Vork is my Romulan. And you can see from the screenshot that the match was lopsided, no need for the Klingons to keep abusing the subspace rupture over and over but they still did it anyway.
In FvF, there is far more restraint about using this console but I am convinced the vast majority of Klink players with few exceptions are young teens who are still immature. I honestly don't know how Cryptic can fix this new toy. But it isn't just fixing it, its the trend that is worrying. The rate at which they churn out new OP toys is increasing, no doubt driven by need to grow revenue and frankly, they are running out of good ideas. The OP aspect of these new consoles and weapons is intended and is to be expected in order to entice people to buy. But this can't go on forever before it killed the golden goose. And you can't fix everything after the fact. I'll be honest, this feels less and less like Star Trek and I am unsure how long I will stay.
DISCLAIMER: Nothing in the following post is NOT intended as an endorsement of using known broken abilities, OR an admonition against using them. That discussion is happening already quite well in this thread.
TEAMWORK is THE counter, as in:
Solution 1 - Identify the person with the console and focus fire them into oblivion any time they get near your team.
Solution 2 - Use your support abilities to rescue your teammate from the baseball.
That said, I am guessing the INTENT was to have the baseball disable only BOFF abilities and hopefully it will get fixed in that sense, but my bigger point is:
For PvP in general I find that the majority of the ridiculous cheese items have a pretty large cost/opportunity involved. Every single spam console or weapon means a loss of a standard console like Armor, Emitters etc. The only thing in STO PvP that is actually "OP" is good teamwork. I have seen this proven over and over again:
Problem:
"BUG SHIPS ARE OP! NERF THEM!"
Solution:
Point all guns from five ships at the bug ship. Everyone use the abilities they have and ... bug ship go BOOM ..
Problem:
"THAT GUY HAS AN OP CONSOLE IN HIS SHIP!"
Solution:
Point all guns from five ships at the console using ship. Everyone use the abilities they have and ... console using ship go BOOM ..
Problem:
"EVERYBODY IS USING ENHANCED BATTLE CLOAK AND DROPPING MINES THEN RUNS AWAY!"
Solution:
"Hey guy, I am saving my tractor beam for for the next time they come back. When I say TARGET >>$$target<<, Point all guns from five ships at the T'Varo/B'Rel." Everyone use the abilities they have and ... T'Varo/B'Rel go BOOM ..
Problem:
"THOSE NASTY KLINKS ARE ALL SPAMMING ASSIMILATORS!"
Solution:
"Hey guys, let's all stick together and NOT GO NEAR the "special place" 150K from our spawn point where the field of assimilators is set up. When they give up on waiting and come over here,. I will focus on using my torpedoes to clear the assimilators while you guy ALL FIRE ON THE SAME SHIP!!!"
Okay, enough examples, hopefully you get my point by now which is: ALL FIVE TEAMMATES FIRE ON THE SAME SHIP! ... and ... USE YOUR CASTABLE POWERS TO SAVE YOU TEAMMATE AS NEEDED!!!
I have learned one thing from STO PvP that seems to escape SO MANY players. Teamwork> Everything else ...
People say, "Well my pug team can't possibly have the teamwork of that Fleet Premade using Teamspeak."
Really? You mean to say you can't figure out how to have three second conversation at the start of the match, decide who is calling targets and FIRE AT THE TARGETS THEY CALL AS A TEAM?!?!?!?! I always remember this one match:
As I always do at the start of every match, I glance at the scorecard to see who is on the other team.
"Oh, snap! It's a dreaded super fleet premade that has great co-ordination and all has OP lockbox ships and every console on earth, and we only have four people, none of whom I have ever seen before .... time to die fast and get it over with."
Of course, I am not going to just go down without a fight so I prepare to do my best. Lo and behold, without a single word other than calling targets being said in chat, my three teammates (one sci and two engis ... I was tac) proceed to instantly match my targets, time abilities well and cross heal like pros. Epic match finishes with us winning 15-12. BTW, both engineers were in free RA ships.
OK, in summary of my rant/commentary/advice:
1 - While there are broken things we all would like to see fixed, there is nothing that can counter great teamwork, other than even better teamwork.
2 - It shouldn't require teamspeak etc. to have great teamwork. Simply set your 1 v 1 mentality aside and start by firing at the same thing as the rest of your team.
Watch how quick that TIF using, baseball throwing, AMS spamming Nadeon detonating lockbox ship captain runs to the Dilithium mine for a couple of those new armors when you lock him/her down and unload the full firepower of five ships against his/her armorless, emitterless self and vape them faster than they can click those consoles. I say this from the perspective of someone who does happen to have a Temporal Timeship full of junk consoles that I fracking LOVE to fly. Guess what, if the other team insists on dogfighting, I can make a 15-0 win happen without trying. If they choose to all focus fire me everytime I get near them, I get VAPED over and over. Thank Kahless that toon is KDF, where I can usually count on basic teamwork being second nature and I usually get a heal or two thrown my way ...
One last thing, STOP RUSHING ALL ALONE BACK AT THE ENEMY TEAM WITHOUT THE REST OF YOUR TEAM ... or don't, they will be waiting to obliterate you while the rest of your team is waiting to respawn and you can earn that dilithium really fast.
DISCLAIMER: Nothing in the following post is NOT intended as an endorsement of using known broken abilities, OR an admonition against using them. That discussion is happening already quite well in this thread.
TEAMWORK is THE counter, as in:
Solution 1 - Identify the person with the console and focus fire them into oblivion any time they get near your team.
Solution 2 - Use your support abilities to rescue your teammate from the baseball.
That said, I am guessing the INTENT was to have the baseball disable only BOFF abilities and hopefully it will get fixed in that sense, but my bigger point is:
For PvP in general I find that the majority of the ridiculous cheese items have a pretty large cost/opportunity involved. Every single spam console or weapon means a loss of a standard console like Armor, Emitters etc. The only thing in STO PvP that is actually "OP" is good teamwork. I have seen this proven over and over again:
Problem:
"BUG SHIPS ARE OP! NERF THEM!"
Solution:
Point all guns from five ships at the bug ship. Everyone use the abilities they have and ... bug ship go BOOM ..
Problem:
"THAT GUY HAS AN OP CONSOLE IN HIS SHIP!"
Solution:
Point all guns from five ships at the console using ship. Everyone use the abilities they have and ... console using ship go BOOM ..
Problem:
"EVERYBODY IS USING ENHANCED BATTLE CLOAK AND DROPPING MINES THEN RUNS AWAY!"
Solution:
"Hey guy, I am saving my tractor beam for for the next time they come back. When I say TARGET >>$$target<<, Point all guns from five ships at the T'Varo/B'Rel." Everyone use the abilities they have and ... T'Varo/B'Rel go BOOM ..
Problem:
"THOSE NASTY KLINKS ARE ALL SPAMMING ASSIMILATORS!"
Solution:
"Hey guys, let's all stick together and NOT GO NEAR the "special place" 150K from our spawn point where the field of assimilators is set up. When they give up on waiting and come over here,. I will focus on using my torpedoes to clear the assimilators while you guy ALL FIRE ON THE SAME SHIP!!!"
Okay, enough examples, hopefully you get my point by now which is: ALL FIVE TEAMMATES FIRE ON THE SAME SHIP! ... and ... USE YOUR CASTABLE POWERS TO SAVE YOU TEAMMATE AS NEEDED!!!
I have learned one thing from STO PvP that seems to escape SO MANY players. Teamwork> Everything else ...
People say, "Well my pug team can't possibly have the teamwork of that Fleet Premade using Teamspeak."
Really? You mean to say you can't figure out how to have three second conversation at the start of the match, decide who is calling targets and FIRE AT THE TARGETS THEY CALL AS A TEAM?!?!?!?! I always remember this one match:
As I always do at the start of every match, I glance at the scorecard to see who is on the other team.
"Oh, snap! It's a dreaded super fleet premade that has great co-ordination and all has OP lockbox ships and every console on earth, and we only have four people, none of whom I have ever seen before .... time to die fast and get it over with."
Of course, I am not going to just go down without a fight so I prepare to do my best. Lo and behold, without a single word other than calling targets being said in chat, my three teammates (one sci and two engis ... I was tac) proceed to instantly match my targets, time abilities well and cross heal like pros. Epic match finishes with us winning 15-12. BTW, both engineers were in free RA ships.
OK, in summary of my rant/commentary/advice:
1 - While there are broken things we all would like to see fixed, there is nothing that can counter great teamwork, other than even better teamwork.
2 - It shouldn't require teamspeak etc. to have great teamwork. Simply set your 1 v 1 mentality aside and start by firing at the same thing as the rest of your team.
Watch how quick that TIF using, baseball throwing, AMS spamming Nadeon detonating lockbox ship captain runs to the Dilithium mine for a couple of those new armors when you lock him/her down and unload the full firepower of five ships against his/her armorless, emitterless self and vape them faster than they can click those consoles. I say this from the perspective of someone who does happen to have a Temporal Timeship full of junk consoles that I fracking LOVE to fly. Guess what, if the other team insists on dogfighting, I can make a 15-0 win happen without trying. If they choose to all focus fire me everytime I get near them, I get VAPED over and over. Thank Kahless that toon is KDF, where I can usually count on basic teamwork being second nature and I usually get a heal or two thrown my way ...
One last thing, STOP RUSHING ALL ALONE BACK AT THE ENEMY TEAM WITHOUT THE REST OF YOUR TEAM ... or don't, they will be waiting to obliterate you while the rest of your team is waiting to respawn and you can earn that dilithium really fast.
/rant finished
An old rule of thumb is that there are supposed to be ability counters to disables.
If you were being honest you'd acknowledge a team w/o these consoles would lose to a coordinated team w/them. 5x consoles off cooldowns would allow a the team w/them to target all the enemies negating any teamwork potential. Then repeat when the cooldown is off timer.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
The console is under review. Please continue to submit constructive feedback on the ability and I will forward it along to the systems team.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
The console would be awesome but fair if it didn't disable. Like seriously that's the only change it needs. Still create a big black sphere, still drop perception and movement rate down to almost nothing- but don't actually disable the ship inside.
A ten second disable is waaaaaaaay too long for such a strong ability.
Alternatively, cut the disable down to the moment of impact- cap it at like two seconds, tops.
hmm tier 3 Nukara rep passive cryo immobilizer is a stackable and unbreakable hold also. I would hope if they make a change to this console, ie: making normal hold break abilities work on the disable, they might do the same for that passive on the ground. If not, then welcome to how it's been for ground since Nukara rep came out.
The console would be awesome but fair if it didn't disable. Like seriously that's the only change it needs. Still create a big black sphere, still drop perception and movement rate down to almost nothing- but don't actually disable the ship inside.
A ten second disable is waaaaaaaay too long for such a strong ability.
Alternatively, cut the disable down to the moment of impact- cap it at like two seconds, tops.
i think just having only bridge officer powers (not captain ,not manual shield distro, not other console powers) being disabled would fix this console.
itd make evasive manuvers and sub jump hard counters to it.
also, this thread makes me laugh. pver's insulting us for wanting it to be balanced-
Totally agree with this. I've been going into FvK C&H's for the past few weeks with some friends and fleetmates and it's been FANTASTIC! We went in at first with low expectations, and we got every aspect of cheese thrown at us, so we started putting some of our own on and it was SOOOO GOOD! Think Arena only with two or even three times the players, over a much larger area with a few optional things to hold onto for the hardcore C&H'er who wants to win. The majority of us just end up in a massive mash-up in the centre of the map that goes on for like half an hour. any pretense of holding something for a pittance of dilithium lost in favor of a good brawl ^_^
EXACTLY - this is what I find happening - no-one really focased on capping - just one huge Cheese filled spam fested brawl - like a full bench clearing brawl in hockey that you don't see much anymore.
Full 10 vs 10 participation - damn thats fun - and I rarely say this before this console - so like I said Cryptic could be onto something with these new cheap universal OP consoles - that anyone can use. The experience players are already getting good at counters - speed tanking - hitting Aux to SIF for impact - APO - evasives - boosters - tons of stuff. Sure if you have a co-ordinated attack the person is going down no matter who good - but really that should be the way anyways. I say let the fun continue and see how it plays out over the next few weeks.
It doesn't seem to be that terribly OP. It is a threat yes, but if it weren't then it wouldn't be worth getting. Let it stay how it is and give us new counters.
Some of the problem with a console like this is there are limited abilities in our trays. To make the game more easy to showcase skill over spam we need 2-3 times more abilities from our boffs and ditch all cool downs, just put appropriate power drains on subsystems for each ability. No power, no abilities. Ration your power through use of your abilities or die.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
It doesn't seem to be that terribly OP. It is a threat yes, but if it weren't then it wouldn't be worth getting. Let it stay how it is and give us new counters.
Some of the problem with a console like this is there are limited abilities in our trays. To make the game more easy to showcase skill over spam we need 2-3 times more abilities from our boffs and ditch all cool downs, just put appropriate power drains on subsystems for each ability. No power, no abilities. Ration your power through use of your abilities or die.
except any new powers they give you on your tray is completely useless because you CANT activate any power on your tray.
except any new powers they give you on your tray is completely useless because you CANT activate any power on your tray.
counter that....
oh wait, there is no counter.
Yet I doubt this is the last console to be put out? Do you really think that they would not give new things out to help. most console are offensive near exclusively because they nerf them to limited use. If an offensive system were found to be a big deal then there would be a market for more defensive abilities and consoles.
The thing you are missing is that ball takes a while to get to you, and you can activate omega or evasive and get away from it, you just ahve to be aware and counter prior to it popping. It is not OP for the situationally aware.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
I think at the end of the day the Devs are probably not going to change this, and if you want a decent clean PVP, just go to Organised PVP and Zenith is usually good at laying some no bs rules.
Went in one today and everyone was compliant and happy with this. I think if you want to have rage and troll by all means try it in Kerrat, anything goes there but don't complain or QQ cus it's kerrat. Same in Pugmades.
The Devs don't listen to players, they are running a business with their bank balance as priority. The endless bugs and unbalanced items are a testament to this.
Hence it is up to the community to do something about it and have organised PVP with decent rules.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Comments
Well maybe its just me than. I'm not saying that engineers don't have a high healing ability, they do a little to high as well.
But in the way of doing some damage we don't have a lot, you should have read what I put Sci and Tac can do dmg, eng can not.
We lose out on our healing if we want to do any kind of dmg and when we do that we might as well have been sci officers, I also added a little more at the end of my rant, but I'm not sure really what is best for this console.
I like this console a lot but I also know it will most likely get nerfed cause it has potential to be a right pain, what makes me sad is that when it dose get nerfed it will all be about tactical's again.
and I only got up to page 4 of this post then I wanted to say something, then finish reading it, I mean common give a guy a chance here there is 19 pages for me to go threw. lol
As someone who also enjoys playing engineers, I do understand where you are coming from.
But honestly, space PvP, for all the issues there might be, is really a sci toon's game.
Yes, a tac will get the kills, but a sci is the one that sets em up. Honestly, while it is a damage-fest, that's more due to power creep and the state of the game. And tacs have the damage buffs to power through all that, including in ways like APA/APO3/GDF/Tac fleet, possibly even adding a de-cloak to that.
In a less 'controlled' environment, it can be pretty tac-heavy, due to the lack of coordination or teamwork more than anything else. With a well-used sci can seriously turn the tide though.
To compare:
Ground PvP I think all three classes are...mostly equal. I'd rather take a more balanced team than a more focused one, but that is just me.
Space PvE is a Tac's game because that truly is only about DPS. Others can do DPS, but at that point might as well be tacs since it's still all it needs
Ground PvE is a sci/eng game. Tac is usually there to '***** out', forgive the term, their Tac Initiative. Sure they can kill stuff, but they lack a lot of survivability in ground PvE (elite ground STFs is mostly what I mean btw), compared to the other two who can live. Not to mention engies are great at group killing with bombs, mines, and Orbital Strike, and a sci can use holds, stuns, etc to make sure they stay nice and together to die.
But I kinda got off topic.
I do know your pain, but honestly, this console really isn't a part of the 'tac vs sci vs eng' thing.
Oh I know, I completely understand that, but as you said and I quot.
"But honestly, space PvP, for all the issues there might be, is really a sci toon's game.
Yes, a tac will get the kills, but a sci is the one that sets em up. Honestly, while it is a damage-fest, that's more due to power creep and the state of the game. And tacs have the damage buffs to power through all that, including in ways like APA/APO3/GDF/Tac fleet, possibly even adding a de-cloak to that."
Engineers don't really get a look in do we?
All we can do is join in a game pretty much watch from a distance and maybe throw out a heal or two when someone is out of position and hurting. If were to tough we are ignored if were to weak we get ganged up on.
As I have already said, if this console was nerfed but not to much, as I said as it is. "I think its a little OP" and given to engineers only to use and that our heals in exchange get lowered a little, it would make it fun for us in PVP giving us a reason to join and making us a part of the team for a change.
When I talk to my PVP friends its always the same thing "A good team always brings 3 Tactical and 2 Science" and every time I hear that I feel so let down and unwanted for PVP games, where I tried to make my engineer into something that would be useful from the start for PVP, ended up being something of 3 years of my life and time wasted really.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
they dont succeed because I logout .When I log back in they are raging ...which is cool because thats how games should be.Rage keeps the blood preasure high and is good for you if you dont do sports
Yep, not denying that at all. It really does suck.
But, I'm sorry to say, that idea doesn't help engineers. That would only make it worse, because that power given to them would only really make people think 'oh look, an engineer, I guess he's going to use the 'guaranteed shut down ability', yep, there he goes now'
That console, even if nerfed 'a little' would still be tremendously overpowered. People would know engineers for their built-in 'I win' button instead, and then they wouldn't want to play against or with them, because they would be considered cheap, and thus used even less.
Engineers need something, I agree totally. But something like this, isn't what they need. Because even then, it still wouldn't be an APA, or an SNB, or Sensor Scan. It wouldn't really be a force multiplier, which is the real thing I feel an engineer lacks.
I once made a rather amusing post about comparing tacs and engies to the Matrix, I think that fits pretty well still: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8911511&postcount=21
I've got 4x Eng, 3x Sci, and 2x Tac...I'm well aware of the differences between the three Careers - 5 abilities and 2 potential traits.
Um, anybody loses out on possible healing the more they try to do damage. The only differences between the Careers are the 5 innate abilities (space) and the 2 potential traits (space). I just talk about space, in general - since I don't do ground outside of leveling.
I disagree with that entirely. Currently, Sci gains the most from it - then Tac - and then Eng, imho.
Sci can SNB - strip buffs and lay into the target.
Tac can APA - ramp up their damage as they lay into the target.
Eng can...better deal...with uh...er...the stuff the person...well, they're not doing anything.
Meanwhile, I see the Eng as losing the most - since the Eng abilities and traits which might otherwise keep them alive while being attacked...can't be used.
Just a case that it's more likely that the Eng is going to be in the slowboat and the Eng abilities/traits are about "survival"...it's what the Eng's got, and this takes that away. Sure, Tac loses their ability do damage and the Sci loses their lil' bag 'o tricks...but this is a survival thing, so I see the Eng losing the most.
tachyon mines, nukara web mines, and now it will be this.
historical patterned behavior anyone? I don't know why we test on tribble. They don't listen.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
And how much reaction time do you have if they fire it point-blank and then snap a tractor on? It's not like you can activate any counters while you're under its effect......
The damage is not an issue. You didn't even mention the main problem, which is the stun.
Plus, you say that none of that helps you in a carrier and a dreadnought - so you say a single console can render anyone in a large ship helpless?
cryptic is getting stun/disable happy again
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
I don't disagree, but the Jem console certainly falls in that ballpark w/the team pseudo APO+slow and confuse immunity.
Few complained about the cooldown reduction doffs, but many complained about the SS doff that increases cooldowns.
People complained about the drain from plas leech, completely missing that the gain was the more powerful effect (not counting when it was broken and stacked from multiple targets and resists didn't work).
Again, this is a bad power creep, but generally I still see much more complaining when it's on the Sci side than the Tac or even the survivability realm of Engineers.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Imo, it's a combination of Sci and Tac. Though there was a time where Tac alone did the job and debuffs weren't needed that much (around the time rep system came out w/fleet ships when people hit level 2, but not 4 yet as an example). Before that there was a time where Engineers circling the wagons had enough dps to kill a Tac who lingered too long. On the other hand it's been even longer that I can remember since a Sci ship could debuff and still do enough damage on its own to kill an Escort like it used to (they used to be a very hard counter to Escorts, to the point where Escorts were looked down upon in the queues).
Cryptic hasn't released a high damage dealing pet that's on par w/what a player can put out, but there's nothing stopping them from doing so though. They have given out some Tac debuff powers w/the Sci debuff powers. They've made most pets into debuffing machines, since the start really.
I guess my point is people seem less inclined to point out power creep problems they benefit from than they're on the receiving end of. This includes the survivability powers as well.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Energy Weapons Officer: Chance for Beam Array: Overload to cause your attacks to ignore a portion of shields for several seconds
Totally agree with this. I've been going into FvK C&H's for the past few weeks with some friends and fleetmates and it's been FANTASTIC! We went in at first with low expectations, and we got every aspect of cheese thrown at us, so we started putting some of our own on and it was SOOOO GOOD! Think Arena only with two or even three times the players, over a much larger area with a few optional things to hold onto for the hardcore C&H'er who wants to win. The majority of us just end up in a massive mash-up in the centre of the map that goes on for like half an hour. any pretense of holding something for a pittance of dilithium lost in favor of a good brawl ^_^
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Shockingly it's even worse than the old SNB+VM combo. For someone to use that they had to be a sci captain in a ship with a Lt Cmdr sci slot or greater. With this console, anyone can use it and it has added bonus of blinding the player... Not that it'd matter since you can't do anything anyway.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Ok.. I think it is time you make sure you say Engi/Healer when referring to the Engineer. My first character was an Engineer. An Engineer/Escort. And I was dangerous in that ship back in the P2P days. When having a life time sub was a god send because it ment not having to pay a monthly sub for a poor man like me to enjoy. Back before the Skill changes and F2P.
Even after F2P I later jumped into my Engi/Escort when the Kumari came out, and did some dirty things with it.
An Engi can't deal damage you say? PSHAW! I've seen plenty of my share of Engis deal damage.
Nadion inversion can help get kills in the right ship. So can EPS.
And about your post above, trust me, I HATE..absolutely HATE that the Engineer has basically been thrown to the wayside where PVP is concerned. Currently in space, since the ship matters more then the Career, it is why the Sci and the Tac work better. The Tac can bring the boom. While the Sci brings the paint thinner.
How ever an Engi can still work. But your like the fat kid being chosen for sports. Unless your better at the role of healer, or can do more damage then your friends, they are going to pick you last.. if at all.
But that is not what this thread is about. It is not about who benefits most from this new console (coughsciencecough) it is about what may be tweeked too high for this console where PVP is concerned.
I've already stated in previous posts my thoughts on the console.
The Disable is really the ONLY Thing I have a problem with. Since it is supposed to be unresistable, I'd change that if possible. If not then I'd lower how long the effect lasts.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Perhaps maybe when this console has been fixed and working as intended people might warm up to it.
I don't see it as an I win button but its not exactly a bag of kittens either, the only defense I have seen is to hit evasive, Omega or Aux to Engines for the speed boost just before impact and I really don't think it is working as intended as I have read in other posts that its not meant to turn off Captain skills but it dose anyway.
Only time will tell how this gets played out, I just hope that when cryptic fixes this its not nerfed to much to the point it turns into an expensive Gravity well light show.
Is this console a guaranteed kill? No, most definitely not. Though more often than not, it's very difficult to evade. Case in point, just came out of a FvK C&H. The Fed side is just a group of very casual pug, many of them I suspect are 1st timer or PvEer grinding for dil. The Klink side is much more organized, not a premade but, an above average team with some very good players. The writing was on the wall right from the beginning. Yet, a few Klinks kept abusing the subspace rupture console. I was hit twice, survived once despite being gang up like 3 to 1. The second time I was hit, I hit APO3 just before - no good, stuck in a blackhole with tray greyed out.
The worst part is the behavior & maturity of the said players. So I asked them to refrain from using the said console in chat with "please" at the end. Was met with laughters and immature taunts. So I said I'd be taking screenshots and document how this console is being abused in PvP and let people judge this. One of the Klingon kid taunted me to post them and called me a f****** TRIBBLE, in direct violation of the games TOS. Normally, I don't post this but since he taunted me to post it so I will oblige and let you see : K'Vork is &@*#)% TRIBBLE... K'Vork is my Romulan. And you can see from the screenshot that the match was lopsided, no need for the Klingons to keep abusing the subspace rupture over and over but they still did it anyway.
In FvF, there is far more restraint about using this console but I am convinced the vast majority of Klink players with few exceptions are young teens who are still immature. I honestly don't know how Cryptic can fix this new toy. But it isn't just fixing it, its the trend that is worrying. The rate at which they churn out new OP toys is increasing, no doubt driven by need to grow revenue and frankly, they are running out of good ideas. The OP aspect of these new consoles and weapons is intended and is to be expected in order to entice people to buy. But this can't go on forever before it killed the golden goose. And you can't fix everything after the fact. I'll be honest, this feels less and less like Star Trek and I am unsure how long I will stay.
DISCLAIMER: Nothing in the following post is NOT intended as an endorsement of using known broken abilities, OR an admonition against using them. That discussion is happening already quite well in this thread.
TEAMWORK is THE counter, as in:
Solution 1 - Identify the person with the console and focus fire them into oblivion any time they get near your team.
Solution 2 - Use your support abilities to rescue your teammate from the baseball.
That said, I am guessing the INTENT was to have the baseball disable only BOFF abilities and hopefully it will get fixed in that sense, but my bigger point is:
For PvP in general I find that the majority of the ridiculous cheese items have a pretty large cost/opportunity involved. Every single spam console or weapon means a loss of a standard console like Armor, Emitters etc. The only thing in STO PvP that is actually "OP" is good teamwork. I have seen this proven over and over again:
Problem:
"BUG SHIPS ARE OP! NERF THEM!"
Solution:
Point all guns from five ships at the bug ship. Everyone use the abilities they have and ... bug ship go BOOM ..
Problem:
"THAT GUY HAS AN OP CONSOLE IN HIS SHIP!"
Solution:
Point all guns from five ships at the console using ship. Everyone use the abilities they have and ... console using ship go BOOM ..
Problem:
"EVERYBODY IS USING ENHANCED BATTLE CLOAK AND DROPPING MINES THEN RUNS AWAY!"
Solution:
"Hey guy, I am saving my tractor beam for for the next time they come back. When I say TARGET >>$$target<<, Point all guns from five ships at the T'Varo/B'Rel." Everyone use the abilities they have and ... T'Varo/B'Rel go BOOM ..
Problem:
"THOSE NASTY KLINKS ARE ALL SPAMMING ASSIMILATORS!"
Solution:
"Hey guys, let's all stick together and NOT GO NEAR the "special place" 150K from our spawn point where the field of assimilators is set up. When they give up on waiting and come over here,. I will focus on using my torpedoes to clear the assimilators while you guy ALL FIRE ON THE SAME SHIP!!!"
Okay, enough examples, hopefully you get my point by now which is: ALL FIVE TEAMMATES FIRE ON THE SAME SHIP! ... and ... USE YOUR CASTABLE POWERS TO SAVE YOU TEAMMATE AS NEEDED!!!
I have learned one thing from STO PvP that seems to escape SO MANY players. Teamwork> Everything else ...
People say, "Well my pug team can't possibly have the teamwork of that Fleet Premade using Teamspeak."
Really? You mean to say you can't figure out how to have three second conversation at the start of the match, decide who is calling targets and FIRE AT THE TARGETS THEY CALL AS A TEAM?!?!?!?! I always remember this one match:
As I always do at the start of every match, I glance at the scorecard to see who is on the other team.
"Oh, snap! It's a dreaded super fleet premade that has great co-ordination and all has OP lockbox ships and every console on earth, and we only have four people, none of whom I have ever seen before .... time to die fast and get it over with."
Of course, I am not going to just go down without a fight so I prepare to do my best. Lo and behold, without a single word other than calling targets being said in chat, my three teammates (one sci and two engis ... I was tac) proceed to instantly match my targets, time abilities well and cross heal like pros. Epic match finishes with us winning 15-12. BTW, both engineers were in free RA ships.
OK, in summary of my rant/commentary/advice:
1 - While there are broken things we all would like to see fixed, there is nothing that can counter great teamwork, other than even better teamwork.
2 - It shouldn't require teamspeak etc. to have great teamwork. Simply set your 1 v 1 mentality aside and start by firing at the same thing as the rest of your team.
Watch how quick that TIF using, baseball throwing, AMS spamming Nadeon detonating lockbox ship captain runs to the Dilithium mine for a couple of those new armors when you lock him/her down and unload the full firepower of five ships against his/her armorless, emitterless self and vape them faster than they can click those consoles. I say this from the perspective of someone who does happen to have a Temporal Timeship full of junk consoles that I fracking LOVE to fly. Guess what, if the other team insists on dogfighting, I can make a 15-0 win happen without trying. If they choose to all focus fire me everytime I get near them, I get VAPED over and over. Thank Kahless that toon is KDF, where I can usually count on basic teamwork being second nature and I usually get a heal or two thrown my way ...
One last thing, STOP RUSHING ALL ALONE BACK AT THE ENEMY TEAM WITHOUT THE REST OF YOUR TEAM ... or don't, they will be waiting to obliterate you while the rest of your team is waiting to respawn and you can earn that dilithium really fast.
/rant finished
Not 2-3s, it's 10 seconds.
Highlights from 3 arena matches i did today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPyNas_uABs
An old rule of thumb is that there are supposed to be ability counters to disables.
If you were being honest you'd acknowledge a team w/o these consoles would lose to a coordinated team w/them. 5x consoles off cooldowns would allow a the team w/them to target all the enemies negating any teamwork potential. Then repeat when the cooldown is off timer.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
The console would be awesome but fair if it didn't disable. Like seriously that's the only change it needs. Still create a big black sphere, still drop perception and movement rate down to almost nothing- but don't actually disable the ship inside.
A ten second disable is waaaaaaaay too long for such a strong ability.
Alternatively, cut the disable down to the moment of impact- cap it at like two seconds, tops.
Vanilla Ground PvP information
i think just having only bridge officer powers (not captain ,not manual shield distro, not other console powers) being disabled would fix this console.
itd make evasive manuvers and sub jump hard counters to it.
also, this thread makes me laugh. pver's insulting us for wanting it to be balanced-
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=829381
Do you even Science Bro?
EXACTLY - this is what I find happening - no-one really focased on capping - just one huge Cheese filled spam fested brawl - like a full bench clearing brawl in hockey that you don't see much anymore.
Full 10 vs 10 participation - damn thats fun - and I rarely say this before this console - so like I said Cryptic could be onto something with these new cheap universal OP consoles - that anyone can use. The experience players are already getting good at counters - speed tanking - hitting Aux to SIF for impact - APO - evasives - boosters - tons of stuff. Sure if you have a co-ordinated attack the person is going down no matter who good - but really that should be the way anyways. I say let the fun continue and see how it plays out over the next few weeks.
Some of the problem with a console like this is there are limited abilities in our trays. To make the game more easy to showcase skill over spam we need 2-3 times more abilities from our boffs and ditch all cool downs, just put appropriate power drains on subsystems for each ability. No power, no abilities. Ration your power through use of your abilities or die.
except any new powers they give you on your tray is completely useless because you CANT activate any power on your tray.
counter that....
oh wait, there is no counter.
Do you even Science Bro?
Yet I doubt this is the last console to be put out? Do you really think that they would not give new things out to help. most console are offensive near exclusively because they nerf them to limited use. If an offensive system were found to be a big deal then there would be a market for more defensive abilities and consoles.
The thing you are missing is that ball takes a while to get to you, and you can activate omega or evasive and get away from it, you just ahve to be aware and counter prior to it popping. It is not OP for the situationally aware.
Went in one today and everyone was compliant and happy with this. I think if you want to have rage and troll by all means try it in Kerrat, anything goes there but don't complain or QQ cus it's kerrat. Same in Pugmades.
The Devs don't listen to players, they are running a business with their bank balance as priority. The endless bugs and unbalanced items are a testament to this.
Hence it is up to the community to do something about it and have organised PVP with decent rules.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)