there is very very little you can do to counter this attack. everyone knows it.
nothing counters any of it. its not an I win button, but its really as close as we've gotten. even beam overload spam takes a number of doffs and a few different boff abilities to pull off successfully.
this console is broken op scrap.
but, it could be fun, if I didn't feel like I was sneaking peaks at my sisters ***s every time I use it.
I like that I can fire it out of my aft, (get it? my aaaaaffft) as a defensive measure from my fleet norgh,
And its great for disabling enemy healers so you can either kill them or who ever it is they're trying to heal but, well.
that brings us back to the 'I win button'.
cause it kinda is. if you use it at the right time. you win. period, no way around that.
the lock out is wayyy too long and all encompassing.
the perception thing is a tremendous pain in the rear but not all together a bad thing I think, its kind of interesting.
The lockout's what hurts.
In discussing some other things in other threads, have to think that Cryptic knew full well what it would do...and...that's one of the reasons that it's such a common drop from the boxes and is thus so cheap on the Exchange. They didn't create a have and have-not scenario...they created cheap cheap.
In discussing some other things in other threads, have to think that Cryptic knew full well what it would do...and...that's one of the reasons that it's such a common drop from the boxes and is thus so cheap on the Exchange. They didn't create a have and have-not scenario...they created cheap cheap.
I don't see them nerfing this. I see them creating more consoles and items that can be used. They have probably seen sales data that their shiny trinkets that can't perform above standard gear are just not making the revenue.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
KDF BoPs doing hit and runs were certainly annoying, but were also made of tinfoil. If you got caught you paid the price. The new ships are tougher, have a panic button not available to the KDF BoPs in the way of singularity powers and have unique boffs that can increase both dps and defense, and decrease the battlecloak CD. I would not compare fighting a KDF BoP to any of the warbirds.
That's why I tried to specify 'KDF BoPs'. That's the BoPs with the paper-thin hulls, lower shield modifiers, etc. I would never compare Romulan ships with KDF BoPs, they're on an entirely different level above KDF BoPs, and it ticks me off.
KDF BoPs have little recourse but to use the battlecloak in everything they do, at least in PvP. Romulan ships, however, can survive out of cloak. . .especially the cruisers. Maybe not the T'Varo, but the rest can. Especially when spamming singularity powers.
Don't know about the Tvaro, I've seen people use DEM 3 combined with BO3 on alphas, stacked up they can take 3 ships with ease.
No escort should be capable of running that combo.
I've also seen tvaros with heals higher and faster than heal boats.
never mind, considering those "moderators" freely "adust" or delete my posts anyway,
proberly my school was wrong, they did teach me freedom of speech,well, that doesnt exsist anymore.
don't know if this got responded too or not, but its a misconception that bothers me.
this is a privet forum, not a public one, its run and owned by a business, it has rules to using it, and those rules can be enforced. you waive your freedom of speech by agreeing to those rules, this is much like how a restaurant can ask you to leave for vulgar language, if your being loud and offensive, or a school can enforce rules about language.
read up on how the freedom of speech really works.
If that's about his posts being deleted along with mine, its because we were very very very close to crossing the rules line.
My posts got deleted too, I'm not bothered, they were off topic anyway.
On topic.
Last night was amusing.
Went in as a pug, some good players on my team, other team was a semi premade (2-3 same fleet), one with a miracle heal T-varo.
A good chunk of that team was using this new console. They weren't being shy with it either.
Cheese filled match yet they still failed to get a kill and thus rage quit on us.
Funny, they were using the cheese.
Although I felt sorry for the one guy they did leave behind.
What are people seeing out of this thing in PvE? Does the perception mechanic even have an effect?
I dropped it on a siege dreadnought in the 20-man fleet starbase defense and the NPC never lost target lock on me and never stopped shooting. It seemed unaffected.
What are people seeing out of this thing in PvE? Does the perception mechanic even have an effect?
I dropped it on a siege dreadnought in the 20-man fleet starbase defense and the NPC never lost target lock on me and never stopped shooting. It seemed unaffected.
What are you guys seeing out of it v. NPCs?
I saw the entire west flank of Wave 9 No Win Scenario disappear into a black hole when I used it on them.
Since DEM 3 is a CMD ENG level skill, there is no Escort that actually can run that combo.
Don't mistake what you've "seen" a "T'varo" do for what you saw specific pilots do.
Please explain how then that there is a small number of these ships running with BO3 and DEM 3?
BO 3 is easy, any tactical ship with a cmdr ability can run it, but DEM 3?
Hows it even possible if it cant be fitted?
What are people seeing out of this thing in PvE? Does the perception mechanic even have an effect?
I dropped it on a siege dreadnought in the 20-man fleet starbase defense and the NPC never lost target lock on me and never stopped shooting. It seemed unaffected.
What are you guys seeing out of it v. NPCs?
I have it on my talshiar BC right now, with indoc nanites, shrap torp, on a sci, with a GW 3, for me its not the debuffs, its the collapse damage at the end which is 9k to everything in it
Please explain how then that there is a small number of these ships running with BO3 and DEM 3?
BO 3 is easy, any tactical ship with a cmdr ability can run it, but DEM 3?
Hows it even possible if it cant be fitted?
There is another power, called "DEM 2".
Either that, or a particular mechanics bug has once again re-surfaced.
Please explain how then that there is a small number of these ships running with BO3 and DEM 3?
BO 3 is easy, any tactical ship with a cmdr ability can run it, but DEM 3?
Hows it even possible if it cant be fitted?
I am no expert on the boff layouts of Rom ships, but I can say that BO3 is a Lt. Cmdr (not Cmdr.) ability and therefore easy to slot in any number of ships.
Most of the comments I read about the new subspace rift console I read are negative, some even calling it the end of pvp altogether. I disagree.
When I first got introduced to that thing, I was in Ker'rat, hearing a Klingon decloak, then everything went black and my ship kablooie (I knew that Klingon player before; he's got a good alpha strike. Combine that with a cloaking device, wait for the victim to be entangled with some borg, there's no need for him to have an extra powerful console). I was furious, and would have wished for an immediate nerf (I hate when I have no control over my ship).
Then I realized: This console is actually available to everyone. So I got one myself.
I say it's not the end of pvp because of these reasons:
- pet spam was not the end of pvp, annoying though it may be.
- cloaked alpha strikes were not the end of pvp.
- fleet elite shields, lockbox ships, ?ber-rare consoles were not the end of pvp.
And this console should be it? Why?
This http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=830461 is probably more like it.
As an example: I use a fleet patrol escort. If someone flies a bug ship, his equipment gives him an inherent advantage over me. He doesn't have to be a better player to beat me. And: I can't simply get a bug ship to even the odds. The same holds true for the fleet elite shields. I simply can't get them because my fleet isn't there yet. But with the stacking resistances, I find it very hard to even get the shields to weaken, much less get through them. And this is where the console comes into play. It's available to everybody, not just to hardcore endgamers. And it allows for a kill even if you don't have the best of the best equipment.
Yesterday, I was on a 5-on-5 pug match. One healer in my team, two in the other. Each team had one "bad" player, that is, inexperienced, new, or simply with a non-functional build. Since the other four use elite shields, fire is focused on the weakest link. Soon, the score is 5-5. Then both the "bad" players leave. We have a stalemate; no team is able to score a kill. Then the new console comes into play (It still took a total of almost 50 minutes to finish the match; plenty of time for really good players to win the match before). Needless to say, nobody complained in this match about the console.
The people I met - and who complained - usually did it along this line: "You could never kill me without that #*"?$-console". And they're probably right. But is that the idea of pvp? That some people can hide in invincible builds? Sorry, you don't pay me to play cannonfodder for you. I want to have a chance at winning, too, and not only after I have all the best equipment. You're no better player than me just because you have better equipment. You may well be, but how will we find out? Is it really so great, so important to win your matches 15-0?
This console is not an Iwin-button, not even in its current (high power) state. It's not a fire-and-forget instakill device. It needs careful timing, just like an alpha strike. And it can be survived, even if you probably need the help of your teammates. So the console is the counter to the elite fleet shields, and teamwork is the counter to the console.
I'd like to see it kept in the game. The way it is now.
(That being said: the one thing I can imagine to change is to add an immunity (maybe even 3 minutes or more) against the console effect after being hit so it doesn't turn into a game of harassing single players through multiple strikes).
I say Cryptic did the right thing in introducing some high powered cheese/spam to the masses - TIF is also up there in the same area of OPness but it cost about $100 million EC in keys/lobi to get - so it is mostly for the elite players anyways - some who spam it erven though the don't need it.
Since this new console has come out I have seen lots more less hardcore/elite PvP players come out because they can easily afford this console and get some kills and it makes them feel like there is a point to showing up.
Bottom line for the elite players - you know with this thing you got killed most likely due to spam and not skill - so it should not bother you as much. If you don't like the cheese - stick to Opvp or set matches.
I agree this console is a "I win" console - but for PvP in general if it gets more people out in the field.
Personally I am opposed to this console. It's a cheap and easy way to get kills.
And to those who say that that they need it to win, I can only say that the better players are using the console to, and probably way more effectively than you.
This console is a disaster for sto, no other single item has ruined the game as much as this one has, whoever came up with it needs to be fired and have his head examined. Canceled my sub and making no zen purchases until this thing gets nerfed.
I don't really agreed with comparing an unbalanced universal console to decloak-alphastrikes. Despite what some players might think, de-cloak alphastrikes require some skill to pull off properly, especially in KDF BoPs. Poor timing will make your attack useless. They aren't 'I Win' tools.
This console requires much less in the way of skill, and can just be thrown in as part of general sci-spam. Hit someone with this console, a tractor beam, and maybe even a subnuke to remove APO/some other speed buff, and they're essentially helpless. All this can be done with ONE ship.
It's like trying to compare Graviton Pulse with de-cloak attacking.
1 post huh? is this some dev plant trying to change the conversation about this console? makeing a thread would take less effort then coming up with a solution. but who am i kidding, the devs dont care enough about pvp'ers to even bother.
what a terrible argument. what we really need is everyone with it, right. i guess you, and everyone thats not disgusted by your argument, doesn't know and doesn't get why we pvp. there seems to be 2 types of players, those addicted to grinding for the sake of grinding, and those that love the gameplay pvp offers.
because pvp isfun, or was fun. it was fun because it was competitive, and even with all the power creep, personal skill shined through it all. now theres a console that kills if you have the intelligence to not use it on someone who has APO on.
when 8 out of 10 players in a match has this console, there inst a 3 minute cooldown, its used every 15 seconds and totally trumps every single other thing in the entirety of the game. then there might be a minute before they all go off 1 after another again.
what has this done to pvp? it has taken everything that made it fun, and removed it. aside from the effect it has on combat, its offensive visual chaos that has fundamentally changed the look and feel of the pvp i once loved. theres no adapting to something that instantly casts, and removes your ability to react or move. and theres no way to deal with the visual pollution, crapping up the screen
I've got DEM 1 and it fits in Lt slot. Which would mean DEM 2 is Lt Cmdr, DEM 3 Cmdr.
Seems to be more and more broken stuff lately.
SNBs that stack, get hit by 5 and you have massive countdowns or frozen clocks.
The cluster torp STILL crits wrong. This new console. That's just a tiny list.
why do people still not know how DEM works? it does not deal a % of your damage to hull. it adds a small amount of extra damage to each shot that hits your target, directly to hull. so its also not worthless if shilds are down, it deals the extra damage regardless. the DEM damage from a turret would be the same as DEM damage from BO3
Every time I go in to PvP, I get some elachi ship just look at me, my screen goes black, my powers (bridge officer and personal - even evasive and MW) lock out, my ship stops moving and that's it, I'm stuck until I'm dead (in an escort, that's not long after all that kicks in).
I know Cryptic have trouble understanding PvP, I know Cryptic have trouble understanding balance and I know there is a lack of "real" play testing before something gets released, but this, this takes the biscuit + cake and mick all in one.
I struggle to believe that, even Cryptic, let something so over powered and hard to get, in to the game. If this is how things are going to be from now on, that's it, I'm done, not just with STO, but all Cryptic games will be removed from my PC (and by extension, all PWE games as well).
Comments
nothing counters any of it. its not an I win button, but its really as close as we've gotten. even beam overload spam takes a number of doffs and a few different boff abilities to pull off successfully.
this console is broken op scrap.
but, it could be fun, if I didn't feel like I was sneaking peaks at my sisters ***s every time I use it.
I like that I can fire it out of my aft, (get it? my aaaaaffft) as a defensive measure from my fleet norgh,
And its great for disabling enemy healers so you can either kill them or who ever it is they're trying to heal but, well.
that brings us back to the 'I win button'.
cause it kinda is. if you use it at the right time. you win. period, no way around that.
the lock out is wayyy too long and all encompassing.
the perception thing is a tremendous pain in the rear but not all together a bad thing I think, its kind of interesting.
The lockout's what hurts.
I don't see them nerfing this. I see them creating more consoles and items that can be used. They have probably seen sales data that their shiny trinkets that can't perform above standard gear are just not making the revenue.
That's why I tried to specify 'KDF BoPs'. That's the BoPs with the paper-thin hulls, lower shield modifiers, etc. I would never compare Romulan ships with KDF BoPs, they're on an entirely different level above KDF BoPs, and it ticks me off.
KDF BoPs have little recourse but to use the battlecloak in everything they do, at least in PvP. Romulan ships, however, can survive out of cloak. . .especially the cruisers. Maybe not the T'Varo, but the rest can. Especially when spamming singularity powers.
No escort should be capable of running that combo.
I've also seen tvaros with heals higher and faster than heal boats.
don't know if this got responded too or not, but its a misconception that bothers me.
this is a privet forum, not a public one, its run and owned by a business, it has rules to using it, and those rules can be enforced. you waive your freedom of speech by agreeing to those rules, this is much like how a restaurant can ask you to leave for vulgar language, if your being loud and offensive, or a school can enforce rules about language.
read up on how the freedom of speech really works.
My posts got deleted too, I'm not bothered, they were off topic anyway.
On topic.
Last night was amusing.
Went in as a pug, some good players on my team, other team was a semi premade (2-3 same fleet), one with a miracle heal T-varo.
A good chunk of that team was using this new console. They weren't being shy with it either.
Cheese filled match yet they still failed to get a kill and thus rage quit on us.
Funny, they were using the cheese.
Although I felt sorry for the one guy they did leave behind.
I dropped it on a siege dreadnought in the 20-man fleet starbase defense and the NPC never lost target lock on me and never stopped shooting. It seemed unaffected.
What are you guys seeing out of it v. NPCs?
Since DEM 3 is a CMD ENG level skill, there is no Escort that actually can run that combo.
Don't mistake what you've "seen" a "T'varo" do for what you saw specific pilots do.
I saw the entire west flank of Wave 9 No Win Scenario disappear into a black hole when I used it on them.
Please explain how then that there is a small number of these ships running with BO3 and DEM 3?
BO 3 is easy, any tactical ship with a cmdr ability can run it, but DEM 3?
Hows it even possible if it cant be fitted?
I have it on my talshiar BC right now, with indoc nanites, shrap torp, on a sci, with a GW 3, for me its not the debuffs, its the collapse damage at the end which is 9k to everything in it
There is another power, called "DEM 2".
Either that, or a particular mechanics bug has once again re-surfaced.
My guess is the first one though.
That on top of the 'ignore everything buff wise' buff too.
And here is mine, please nerf bops. buff the console, it is up.
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
I am no expert on the boff layouts of Rom ships, but I can say that BO3 is a Lt. Cmdr (not Cmdr.) ability and therefore easy to slot in any number of ships.
When I first got introduced to that thing, I was in Ker'rat, hearing a Klingon decloak, then everything went black and my ship kablooie (I knew that Klingon player before; he's got a good alpha strike. Combine that with a cloaking device, wait for the victim to be entangled with some borg, there's no need for him to have an extra powerful console). I was furious, and would have wished for an immediate nerf (I hate when I have no control over my ship).
Then I realized: This console is actually available to everyone. So I got one myself.
I say it's not the end of pvp because of these reasons:
- pet spam was not the end of pvp, annoying though it may be.
- cloaked alpha strikes were not the end of pvp.
- fleet elite shields, lockbox ships, ?ber-rare consoles were not the end of pvp.
And this console should be it? Why?
This http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=830461 is probably more like it.
As an example: I use a fleet patrol escort. If someone flies a bug ship, his equipment gives him an inherent advantage over me. He doesn't have to be a better player to beat me. And: I can't simply get a bug ship to even the odds. The same holds true for the fleet elite shields. I simply can't get them because my fleet isn't there yet. But with the stacking resistances, I find it very hard to even get the shields to weaken, much less get through them. And this is where the console comes into play. It's available to everybody, not just to hardcore endgamers. And it allows for a kill even if you don't have the best of the best equipment.
Yesterday, I was on a 5-on-5 pug match. One healer in my team, two in the other. Each team had one "bad" player, that is, inexperienced, new, or simply with a non-functional build. Since the other four use elite shields, fire is focused on the weakest link. Soon, the score is 5-5. Then both the "bad" players leave. We have a stalemate; no team is able to score a kill. Then the new console comes into play (It still took a total of almost 50 minutes to finish the match; plenty of time for really good players to win the match before). Needless to say, nobody complained in this match about the console.
The people I met - and who complained - usually did it along this line: "You could never kill me without that #*"?$-console". And they're probably right. But is that the idea of pvp? That some people can hide in invincible builds? Sorry, you don't pay me to play cannonfodder for you. I want to have a chance at winning, too, and not only after I have all the best equipment. You're no better player than me just because you have better equipment. You may well be, but how will we find out? Is it really so great, so important to win your matches 15-0?
This console is not an Iwin-button, not even in its current (high power) state. It's not a fire-and-forget instakill device. It needs careful timing, just like an alpha strike. And it can be survived, even if you probably need the help of your teammates. So the console is the counter to the elite fleet shields, and teamwork is the counter to the console.
I'd like to see it kept in the game. The way it is now.
(That being said: the one thing I can imagine to change is to add an immunity (maybe even 3 minutes or more) against the console effect after being hit so it doesn't turn into a game of harassing single players through multiple strikes).
That's fine.
So then you use something that literally leaves them defenseless in order to get the kill?
That's not fine.
I'm tempting to start bringing down the cheese on those who use it against me. GPG, Theta, etc.
Since this new console has come out I have seen lots more less hardcore/elite PvP players come out because they can easily afford this console and get some kills and it makes them feel like there is a point to showing up.
Bottom line for the elite players - you know with this thing you got killed most likely due to spam and not skill - so it should not bother you as much. If you don't like the cheese - stick to Opvp or set matches.
I agree this console is a "I win" console - but for PvP in general if it gets more people out in the field.
And to those who say that that they need it to win, I can only say that the better players are using the console to, and probably way more effectively than you.
This console requires much less in the way of skill, and can just be thrown in as part of general sci-spam. Hit someone with this console, a tractor beam, and maybe even a subnuke to remove APO/some other speed buff, and they're essentially helpless. All this can be done with ONE ship.
It's like trying to compare Graviton Pulse with de-cloak attacking.
what a terrible argument. what we really need is everyone with it, right. i guess you, and everyone thats not disgusted by your argument, doesn't know and doesn't get why we pvp. there seems to be 2 types of players, those addicted to grinding for the sake of grinding, and those that love the gameplay pvp offers.
because pvp isfun, or was fun. it was fun because it was competitive, and even with all the power creep, personal skill shined through it all. now theres a console that kills if you have the intelligence to not use it on someone who has APO on.
when 8 out of 10 players in a match has this console, there inst a 3 minute cooldown, its used every 15 seconds and totally trumps every single other thing in the entirety of the game. then there might be a minute before they all go off 1 after another again.
what has this done to pvp? it has taken everything that made it fun, and removed it. aside from the effect it has on combat, its offensive visual chaos that has fundamentally changed the look and feel of the pvp i once loved. theres no adapting to something that instantly casts, and removes your ability to react or move. and theres no way to deal with the visual pollution, crapping up the screen
Seems to be more and more broken stuff lately.
SNBs that stack, get hit by 5 and you have massive countdowns or frozen clocks.
The cluster torp STILL crits wrong. This new console. That's just a tiny list.
The only real counter is to run one yourself and get yours off first ?
Seems like a good time... who pushes there big red button first wins.
Every time I go in to PvP, I get some elachi ship just look at me, my screen goes black, my powers (bridge officer and personal - even evasive and MW) lock out, my ship stops moving and that's it, I'm stuck until I'm dead (in an escort, that's not long after all that kicks in).
I know Cryptic have trouble understanding PvP, I know Cryptic have trouble understanding balance and I know there is a lack of "real" play testing before something gets released, but this, this takes the biscuit + cake and mick all in one.
I struggle to believe that, even Cryptic, let something so over powered and hard to get, in to the game. If this is how things are going to be from now on, that's it, I'm done, not just with STO, but all Cryptic games will be removed from my PC (and by extension, all PWE games as well).