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Sugestion because of the beam overload stack

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  • jjgrands420jjgrands420 Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited September 2013

    Shame you're mind has been infiltrated by ....

    logic /10char
  • hasukurobihasukurobi Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    ~Snip~

    I hope these changes feel fair to you. Once the changes make their way to Tribble, please feel free to point out any cases where the changes may not be accomplishing their stated goals - I'm always happy to listen to any constructive feedback.

    That sounds very reasonable to me and I think a lot of other players would agree. You cannot really get away with this sort of thing with any other category so it seems silly that you can do it for these tactical skills. Obviously, as you stated, it is not currently working as intended.

    ankokuneko wrote: »
    So how are we supposed to kill people in pvp now ?

    LOL... Learn 2 Play. Do not be One Trick Pony. I, and many many others, have easily killed folks in PvP since the game began without ever using this trick and will continue to.

    Hint Hint: Stop them from moving, death follows shortly.

    This is because, and this is not hyperbole, 4x DHCs + APA + APO 3 etc., will literally not kill targets on a coordinated team.


    While I DO agree that fleet shields and fleet resist consoles and Aux2Bat builds etc DO need a firm looking at due to how insane the tanking can get as a result I would also have to point out that I have witnessed some beautifully played matches with very organized teams Vs. other well organized teams where they were fully able to defeat their opponents by using some savvy tactics and well... Mind Games really. So it is still not impossible to accomplish by any stretch of the imagination it just requires more coordination and skill.

    However, any sort of PUG Vs. a well organized Premade has exactly 0% chance of ever doing anything but dying quickly and even less organized teams stand a vastly reduced chance of defeating more organized ones to an almost painful degree. I guess then the debate is rather that seems fair or not.
  • milandaremilandare Member Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Thanks OP, previous OPs who raised similar topics, and most especially to the devs. You will eliminate my moments of awesome when stacked Torp Spreads announce my entry to the battle. But if I can just fly as fast as my torps then I can get FIVE WHOLE SECONDS OF AWESOME!

    Genuine thanks tho really from a player who lags :)
  • gibbsptgibbspt Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmmA3F_SMXE

    ^^^ You know what we ran in that match??? Well there it is. (No BS #3 rules super strict --- on our part!)

    We didn't RUN EWP.

    We didn't run Nimbus.

    Stop your ****ing crying.



    The video you posted was just absolutely stupid. I have the match frapped too durp.

    You died from teamwork not double tap. One BO hit you.

    Anyway lol.

    EWP was not forbidden on NoBS#3... nimbus was not fobidden on NoBS#3... yes you won... but were you on our ts to know what happen? no... we were winning 5-3 until someone simply stopped talking thats why we lost... congratulations

    and you stop defending your double tap love and your third party program users teammates...

    at least when i play i dont need any third party program to play like some on your team need...

    Double Tap was overpowered its going to be nerfed and you dont like it because now you wont win like you do now... but you may get some suprizes in the future because my team substituted the weakest link on the team you show on that video because he wasnt caring and all he wanted was to go to his fantasy new game...

    and more bieber was the first to tell me that you guys got lucky on that game... and all we needed was for that week link of ours to say give me tac team that you wouldnt get those 3 kills... but well by the end of the you guys will understand why am i saying this...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon
    Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng
    Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed)
    Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Way off topic but... blaming one member for a TEAM loss is pretty weak.

    If someone died 3 times because they needed a tac team... perhaps the guys playing ESCORT should have saw that and fixed it after the first or at least second death.

    Silly DPS players that don't know how to escort.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • jjgrands420jjgrands420 Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    its likely if not guaranteed not a signle person in that game used any torpedoes let alone stack hy. why was high yield included in this nerf, is the real question
  • jjgrands420jjgrands420 Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    LOOK AT SCORE, LEADERBOARD. NO TOP PLAYERS BUILD USES TORPEDOES.

    mt tie if u dont weigh in on the truthfulness of how torpedoes do not deserve a further nerf u deserve all the hatred u get.
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Way off topic but... blaming one member for a TEAM loss is pretty weak.

    If someone died 3 times because they needed a tac team... perhaps the guys playing ESCORT should have saw that and fixed it after the first or at least second death.

    Silly DPS players that don't know how to escort.


    Seriously, this. Your escorts should just be doing this.

    Your target caller should be calling that out.

    Or your SCIs.

    Or like..someone who is one of the other 4 guys.


    I've played on teams in tourneys and lost and I suck it up and tell the other team congrats and that they just played better than us, better coordination, and they did and they deserved the win - like Division Hispania who beat my team in the recent tourney. They just played better.

    Then you have the OP:

    Ragey nerf thread? Check.
    Deflection of topic? Check.
    Insults & Accusations of cheating? Check.
    Excuses for losing, blaming 1 player in a team game? Check.
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    its likely if not guaranteed not a signle person in that game used any torpedoes let alone stack hy. why was high yield included in this nerf, is the real question
    LOOK AT SCORE, LEADERBOARD. NO TOP PLAYERS BUILD USES TORPEDOES.

    mt tie if u dont weigh in on the truthfulness of how torpedoes do not deserve a further nerf u deserve all the hatred u get.


    Dude, chillax, I think pretty much everyone sane agrees that Torps need a major buff.

    Having them get nerfed now is easily one of the silliest things I've seen this year.

    Not to mention that this nerf completely ruins any point to projectile weapons officers.
  • mancommancom Member Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    NO TOP PLAYERS BUILD USES TORPEDOES.
    More correctly: No top damage dealer uses torpedoes.

    For support players / healers, torpedoes are still a viable choice; but that usually means chronitons or plasma torpedoes for their utility, not the damage.

    I don't quite see the need to change HY/TS, but if prebuffing multiple TS/HY is the only way to use torpedoes for damage, there is something at a deeper level that makes torpedoes useless (we all know that TT is the primary offender here).
    1042856
  • jjgrands420jjgrands420 Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Dude, chillax, I think pretty much everyone sane agrees that Torps need a major buff.

    Having them get nerfed now is easily one of the silliest things I've seen this year.

    Not to mention that this nerf completely ruins any point to projectile weapons officers.

    please let us refocus the discussion on this key major flaw to the proposed changes. sorry for gettin mad but at least many see the light, torpedoes shouldnt be being penalized further.

    frankly tvaro is a TORP ship, those guys using no torps on it were always the problem. torps demand timing and skill, autofiring a preloaded double tap simply did not.

    SAVE THE TORPEDOES
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I think pretty much everyone sane agrees that Torps need a major buff.
    Torps are fine, its shield-stripping that needs a buff
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Torps are fine, its shield-stripping that needs a buff

    Shield stripping used to be over the line though... a small buff to a few of the sci strip skills prehaps... but torps can be made vaible by simply changing the way they effect shields depending on the amount of shields a facing has.

    Increase the bleed through as the % of shields drop... have a sliver of shields save a good chunk of the dmg... but not completely ignore as it is now either.

    If people under 10% shields on a facing started taking 50% of a torps dmg... people would start running them.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Way off topic but... blaming one member for a TEAM loss is pretty weak.

    It's a little more complicated than that, dude. ;)

    That one guy pretty much just threw our chemistry in the toilet.

    It was more than just lack of communication.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    It's a little more complicated than that, dude. ;)

    That one guy pretty much just threw our chemistry in the toilet.

    It was more than just lack of communication.

    It happens to everyone... most people just wouldn't say it in public. When I used to do the premade thing I teamed with my friends. Perhaps its just my Canadian side, I just can't imagine ever having pointed a finger at any of them when we bite it. ;)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • jjgrands420jjgrands420 Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    It's a little more complicated than that, dude. ;)

    That one guy pretty much just threw our chemistry in the toilet.

    It was more than just lack of communication.

    throw anyone under the bus lately. sheesh
  • gibbsptgibbspt Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Seriously, this. Your escorts should just be doing this.

    Your target caller should be calling that out.

    Or your SCIs.

    Or like..someone who is one of the other 4 guys.


    I've played on teams in tourneys and lost and I suck it up and tell the other team congrats and that they just played better than us, better coordination, and they did and they deserved the win - like Division Hispania who beat my team in the recent tourney. They just played better.

    Then you have the OP:

    Ragey nerf thread? Check.
    Deflection of topic? Check.
    Insults & Accusations of cheating? Check.
    Excuses for losing, blaming 1 player in a team game? Check.
    dude you make me laugh... really you do xD...
    like qoro said, it was more complicated than that.. but yes i shoulnt blame him... i should blame myself for bringing him... at least i learn my lesson there... when people dont care about the team they might as well be out of it...

    and keeping with your checking, lets see about you...
    Defend overpowered abilitie that team mate uses for team to win?double check...
    say that there is not enough damage without that? triple check...
    showing old games to try to support his actions? check...
    tell that a group of players(escorts) are noobs? check...

    but well i will not lose more time replying to you :P dotn worry about a thing... because every little thing is gonna be allright...

    but i just said someone hwne i pointed fingers... i didnt say names... that is up to you guys to say because i know you guys like to say a few things...

    P.S.: my guys know that i will defend them if they deserve my trust, when they loose it... they leave the circle... as simple as that
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon
    Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng
    Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed)
    Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    It's become an...interesting conversation. *eats popcorn*

    Though let's tone it down folks, before this thing gets closed. We have had at least some good discussion in this thing.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    gibbspt wrote: »

    and keeping with your checking, lets see about you...
    Defend overpowered abilitie that team mate uses for team to win?double check... Quote where I defend it and say no nerf should happen.
    say that there is not enough damage without that? triple check...Quote where I say there is not enough damage, go back and try real reading comprehension.* Reference included.
    showing old games to try to support his actions? check... THAT WASN'T EVEN ME
    tell that a group of players(escorts) are noobs? check...Did you just make this up completely from your imagination-land, or are you again mistaking me for someone else?


    Comments in red.

    Feel free to go through your own thread to find any of the things you claim.


    Try facts next time.



    Here are some quotes, from your own thread, that you should actually try reading even a little.
    On the one hand, I agree.

    On the other hand, crippling spike damage at this point will leave us back in a situation where good teams will be stalemating and unable to kill protected targets.

    Unfortunately I don't think we can realistically reduce spike damage without correspondingly reducing the massive survivability inflation we've seen over the past year and a half.
    That's it, there is no conspiracy here. It's not like this tactic is a secret, the devs know it exist - if they feel it's not WAI they will change it.

    Will you also be looking at corresponding mechanics such as all of the mitigation power creep that has made all but spike damage easy to shrug off in coordinated team play?

    My position on it is complicated, I'm ok if spike gets toned down if healing and resists get correspondingly toned down.

    I understand the goal, but you're leaving the root cause that pushed builds to spike extremes in the first place in tact.

    We are there now, and its good that you're looking to outliers like double taps.

    Please look at the healing and resistance outliers and that pushed us here.


    Let me know when you're ready to have a discussion that includes facts and not straw-man attacks, lies and complete nonsense.
  • naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Wow, this topic went off the rails. No wonder the developers find it pointless posting here.

    To make this thread more valid again and moving away from e-peen stroking and chest thumping on ALL sides, i don't think anyone has been defending double, treble, multi vape taps. What i have been seeing in this thread in summary is the following:

    There are things in the game which are far worse, yet those things are left unchecked?!?!?
    Scramble DOFFS
    Aux to Batt powered EMP bursts
    etc. etc.

    Nerfing the "vape tap" isn't a bad thing at all.

    Doing the "nerf" in isolation without addressing the core issues of why such builds became necessary is a major issue. ResA / ResB shields being one of those points ruling out suppression damage.

    Any fleet worth it's salt, knows that if they don't adapt to the current meta game, they will drop off rapidly. That being said, once the double tap disappears, don't assume that other fleets who "abuse" double taps are incapable of finding other ways of achieving the same outcome.

    I'm sure the same people complaining about the double taps now will be complaining about another build soon because it moved away from the classical "I don't wanna loose my 4 dual heavy cannons up front so other builds must be borked" build.

    Everybody dies in this game - No one is Godly in PvP and doesn't die.

    Play Tyler Durden and you'll soon learn that. Funny how some so called top players don't want to participate and instead want to just smash pugs. Might "tarnish" their reputation if they die :)
    (Its a challenge and an advertise in disguise to play in Tyler Durden, not a jab :P )
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    naz4 wrote: »
    Any fleet worth it's salt, knows that if they don't adapt to the current meta game, they will drop off rapidly. That being said, once the double tap disappears, don't assume that other fleets who "abuse" double taps are incapable of finding other ways of achieving the same outcome.

    That's kind of part of the complaint.

    This doesn't actually fix anything, does it? For those folks that are complaining about getting popped so fast...this isn't going to stop that.

    C'mon, how many folks out there pop before you've even finished that 2-4s run? It's like wtf?

    Yes, it's a different world in the Premade World...but this change, c'mon - it reeks of the "it's too hard" garbage that's ruining the game left, right, and center.

    Cryptic does something like this...at the same time they're getting ready to "sell" what's basically a battle cloaking Moebius that can use Rom BOFFs...? Seriously?

    Cryptic is doing this - after adding how many things to make this that much easier and that much more effective? Hrmmm, they made their money off of it - sales were diminishing - let's nerf it in preparation for the next thing they're going to support for a period of time.

    Seriously, sometimes when I log in - it reminds me of the older brother slapping the younger brother with the younger brother's hand while saying, "Stop hitting yourself." - I'm wondering if maybe I didn't fall down at some point and incur brain damage to keep doing this...
  • trhrangerxmltrhrangerxml Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    New topic, nerf speed tanks, just to TRIBBLE ppl off.
    Hi, my name is: Elim Garak, Former Cardassian Oppressor

    LTS, here since...when did this game launch again? :D
  • g0h4n4g0h4n4 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    New topic, nerf speed tanks, just to TRIBBLE ppl off.

    Well they can do what they want in their fail corvette builds, running around but dont do enough damage
    Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
    - Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
  • ivantomdisplayivantomdisplay Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I didn't expect such a strong reaction from you Minimax, after all this is just a game (a phrase u have heard million times, I presume). Its a pitty that your setup got screwed in process of removing what is incredibly abused in this game. I'm sure as u adapted after trico nerf, u will find yourself in some new setup.

    To wanna be pvp police officer, for whom, no one gives a dam, I personally wont play TD more cos of your involvement in it, which I find is a pathetic attempt to be some infulent person in this game. Which is shame, its a good idea. Also, u shouldn't speak about excuses, because as I remember, elite disruptors are too powerful, and that's why they beat us! MoooM!

    I was about to make a joke about x nooblet, but I think that would hurt his feelings. Anyways, we know each other long time.

    Double shield, Dolce! <3
    [10:49] [Combat (Self)] Your Proton Barrage deals 96581 (43411) Proton(Critical) to Seto.
    Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
  • trhrangerxmltrhrangerxml Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Just chain EptE with EptX DOFFs, solvers power problems, add dual Aux2Batt in a Temporal Destroyer with Elachi weapons on BFAW or BO while running 95/15/75/15 and enjoy your new troll boat.
    Hi, my name is: Elim Garak, Former Cardassian Oppressor

    LTS, here since...when did this game launch again? :D
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Off topic I know... but everyone is welcome in TD... and no one is in charge of anything no matter what they say... out side of the games they may be creating.

    The TD fight club isn't about your fleets or your egos... start matches if you like the idea. Join matches if you like the idea... Leave the fleet / forum / opvp girly fighting TRIBBLE there.

    Enjoy slapping at each other for awhile and that's that. If you really don't like someone that much what ever join matches when there not around or something.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • xtremenoob1xtremenoob1 Member Posts: 489 Arc User
    edited September 2013

    I was about to make a joke about x nooblet, but I think that would hurt his feelings. Anyways, we know each other long time.

    Double shield, Dolce! <3

    Why would such hurt my feelings? I didn't exploit that bug.

    Hai leia skywalker...
    -X-/Pandas - Pheo
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • adjudicatorhawkadjudicatorhawk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    That's kind of part of the complaint.

    This doesn't actually fix anything, does it?

    Double-tap is bad gameplay - period, end of story. It's a workaround for a shared cooldown that was always supposed to prevent exactly what's happening. It fixes a lot of things about this small problem - but the point that many are making (and that I agree with) is that this fix is just a drop in the moderately large bucket in the grand scheme of unwinding and overhauling combat math to make things feel fair for both aggressors and defenders, and make combat between evenly matched adversaries take a more reasonable amount of time. The trick to any of these changes is that our PvE combat is in a pretty good place - people can have a lot of fun flying just about any ship, and can contribute meaningfully to queued events and basically have a blast. Therefore, any change to combat math that also affects PvE is extremely high risk - so the TRIBBLE we have to balance and tweak PvP pacing are limited to those that don't have unintended side effects.

    It's not an impossible job - it just requires a lot of care and time investment. If things are broken or things are really bad gameplay, it's easy to justify stepping in and fixing something immediately. If things aren't either of the above but are still less fun or less engaging than they could be, we obviously want to fix them - it just takes more work and more time to get the fix right and minimize any external side effects of that fix.

    That's a bit of a ramble, but I know you guys like insight into why we change things we choose to change and how we make the game, so hopefully it interests you/makes sense to you. Please try to stay positive and constructive in responses - I'm happy to entertain discussions and talk about things openly, but if you start flaming or posting off-topic things, it's really hard to justify responding to something like that.
    Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
    Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
    Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
  • g0h4n4g0h4n4 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013

    That's a bit of a ramble, but I know you guys like insight into why we change things we choose to change and how we make the game, so hopefully it interests you/makes sense to you. Please try to stay positive and constructive in responses - I'm happy to entertain discussions and talk about things openly, but if you start flaming or posting off-topic things, it's really hard to justify responding to something like that.

    Thanks Hawk for your comments, I only hope you seriously consider the changes and why people changed to double tapping. Of course there's the balanced to be made not to make PVE unplayable, which is understandable.
    Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
    - Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
  • thishorizonthishorizon Member Posts: 1,158
    edited September 2013
    hawk, please explain the reasoning behind so many developed passive heals and placates then?

    even on elite the npc targets do not pose any threat. only in NWS can the overtake a group of 5....and in not one mission can they overtake a single ship.

    i disagree with your notion that it is an exploit of the game. (edit: bad game play) if players can exploit the in game massive heals, so should you be able to exploit the in game damage capabilities.

    have fun kill bad guys

    -thrusters on full-
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