for stealing my style to beat shields for torps and abusing it on all energy lamery supposed to thank you?
have fun playign again with 4 dhcs cus thats what u always wanted the whole time marc. thats what all u noobs wanted. at least u dont have to worry about the money lost kitting toons like most of us....
u really come on here and say some lame **** about how great you are and deserve our thanks. u just still hurting from that tricobalt one shot circa 2010 and cant let anyone play that way/ you think u are helping by seeking out whats broken and applying it with a proper strategy. A strategy that abuses whats broken sounds liek exploit quintessential. you didnt do anyone a favor. rip double tap
you shouldnt be gettign 70k on bo1 and u know it, has nothign to do with double tap. pandas win again. stackign the penetration doff was actually a skill play you admitted to me u were ignorant of how it even functioned. This is a sad sad day for all players in this mockery. The devs be shamed. WTF is tac ini for now?
/rant off
100th accoutn name say what
I lol'd Mini. BO1 hitting for 70+ is possible. It's not any players fault for seeing it months ago. I even made a post to players back in April.
Attacking Pandas is just childish. I have fought with and against them the last 2 years and before that when they were in other fleets. Old > New. It's the way it is. I guess I just suck. But I don't see much of a challenge out there against Pandas or even my own fleet.
All I see is a bunch of QQ from players butt hurt they aren't winning because they have all the newest durp TRIBBLE. So Zelda, QQ more. Ivan, Double shield more (Hai Dolce,) Mini don't bring your drama to TD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz9yp-Rzeu8
Again 1,5 secs to die...
and i changed my build... instead of the usual 1 neutronium + 2 sif and 4 emitter arrays, i was running 3 neutroniums + 4 field gens... basicly 45% resist+19k shields... at 37% i was able to use aux to dampners with the doff resistence to 49% and someone gave me tss... still died...
and about the nuc... they were nucking randomly we could never know who the target was until snakie aka MT decloaked... so there you go....
for those that defend that double tap is not overpowered good luck playing this game im off until this is corrected...
5 secs downtime on the dual beam banks(all of them) after the use of 1 beam overload is the best solution in order for all the doffs and TRIBBLE that is out there doesnt have to be nerfer/deleted or whatever...
[irony mod on]
good job devs good job...
[irony mod off]
well looks like feds win, u can play with yourself forever now dont think u wont lose just as hard to mt in bug ship
If this does happen, we will all adapt again, unfortunately it's a like yo yo which it shouldn't. In an ideal world it should be a consistant and reasonable in terms of the game.
New people will confused by these forums a few months from now, not knowing which way to go.
This will be interesting times for STO.... again
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
you shouldnt be gettign 70k on bo1 and u know it, has nothign to do with double tap. pandas win again. stackign the penetration doff was actually a skill play you admitted to me u were ignorant of how it even functioned. This is a sad sad day for all players in this mockery. The devs be shamed. WTF is tac ini for now?
This change doesn't effect tac init at all.
You can still run overload 3 every 15s with tac init... you simply can't load overload 3.... wait 15s fire it... and then reload to fire it again... due to the new 5s lockout.
You also can't load Overload 2... then Overload 3... and pop them both off instant like.
Tac init is still going to allow us to run HY 3 Overload 3 Rapid 3... as if we had 2 copies.
The only things this stops is a ton of spike from one source (overload)... it doesn't stop us from loading up spike from Multiple sources... like Torps cannons and Beams.
The change is fine... I am not exactly happy that the level of shield healing and resists still make torps a hit or complete miss though.
The amount of Shield tanking junk in the game needs a look.
This is a good change if there are some complementary changes to healing/resists/fleet shields etc. Otherwise, it's too extreme. Either way double tapping needed at least a slight nerf.
That said, I'm disappointed that Cryptic is dropping a major nerf hammer on an extremely skill-dependent strategy that is quite difficult to pull off while ignoring far worse imbalances that are usable to anyone who is able to click a button -- TIF and GPG for example. In a sane world the later should have been given far higher priority than the former.
the performance delta between players with the knowledge of this particular trick and players without that knowledge was way too high....
...However, I don't anticipate this change causing much of a difference at all outside of bleeding-edge, very high-knowledge players - and they will always adapt to use their high-knowledge to their competitive advantage.
This almost sounds to me like double tapping BO was targeted first simply because high level PvPers were the only ones able to pull it off with a modicum of success. If so, this is a troubling mindset. Please Hawk, correct me if I'm mistaken -- because I'd rather not be right this time -- and while you're at it, do you ever intend to balance the few outlying abilities that basically amount to "I-Win" buttons in all but the most feeble of hands?
This almost sounds to me like double tapping BO was targeted first simply because high level PvPers were the only ones able to pull it off with a modicum of success.
I'm not Hawk, I don't work for Cryptic, and can only state this particular observation as a player...
...but one need only look around at so much that's been added to the game to see that Cryptic's intended audience for STO - well, they generally don't have a modicum of success with the simplest of things.
Things are either nerfed or added to the game to cater to that audience...
...so it wouldn't be much of a stretch to see this being targeted "first" as being part of catering to that intended audience.
Hawk could obviously come back and say that's not the case...and well, sure - okay.
If this one change drastically changes average time-to-kill in PvP, that means a.) it was super broken and b.) the performance delta between players with the knowledge of this particular trick and players without that knowledge was way too high. As always, we'll monitor the state of the game and make changes if they're necessary. If people are invincible now, we'll at least have a solid base to work from for combat pacing. However, I don't anticipate this change causing much of a difference at all outside of bleeding-edge, very high-knowledge players - and they will always adapt to use their high-knowledge to their competitive advantage.
I'm not saying that this change isn't needed, but I don't think enough consideration is given to the "bleeding-edge, very high-knowledge players".
These are the people the game SHOULD be considering when working out the necessary changes to PvP. I'm sure the statement was meant as a compliment to those of us who consider ourselves bleeding-edge PvPers, but I think it serves more to highlight the fact that if we want to make high-end PvP playable, we're on our own (still).
The best MMO's attempt to build a solid, competitive meta-game, and then work backwards to try and simplify things so newer players aren't facing such a drastic skill and learning curve. From reading this, it sounds more like the model is going to remain that the game is overly complex and one-sided at the top level, and instead of fixing the meta game, the plan is just to make it more playable for casuals when playing other casuals (which is what Cryptic seems to think that casuals want).
Casuals DO NOT want this, because it means they're going to face off against unbeatable roving bands of premade teams who know how to dominate based on imbalanced hidden advantages. To the casuals, it looks like hacks or magic, because they'll probably never figure out how it's done (this is what we have now).
Again, I'm not sure that this is how the statement was meant to come across, but it seems to be all I can take from it. I do honestly hope that a solid amount of time is invested by Cryptic to go back over the mechanics of the game that already exist instead of focusing on what the next thing for sale will be (as I type this, I realize that I'm being a bit harsh here, yet there is quite a bit of truth to it, even if it stings).
This may be a necessary change towards making a better PvP, but only if there are more improvements and changes to follow. If there aren't, then they're better off simply leaving it alone.
for stealing my style to beat shields for torps and abusing it on all energy lamery supposed to thank you?
have fun playign again with 4 dhcs cus thats what u always wanted the whole time marc. thats what all u noobs wanted. at least u dont have to worry about the money lost kitting toons like most of us....
u really come on here and say some lame **** about how great you are and deserve our thanks. u just still hurting from that tricobalt one shot circa 2010 and cant let anyone play that way/ you think u are helping by seeking out whats broken and applying it with a proper strategy. A strategy that abuses whats broken sounds liek exploit quintessential. you didnt do anyone a favor. rip double tap
you shouldnt be gettign 70k on bo1 and u know it, has nothign to do with double tap. pandas win again. stackign the penetration doff was actually a skill play you admitted to me u were ignorant of how it even functioned. This is a sad sad day for all players in this mockery. The devs be shamed. WTF is tac ini for now?
/rant off
100th accoutn name say what
Em, what? lol
I think you are a bit sad that for this time you werent responsible for a nerf mini
well looks like feds win, u can play with yourself forever now dont think u wont lose just as hard to mt in bug ship
You really think i must coped yoir build, and now im back in my bug because im idealess and cant figure out new builds?
My double tapper was build fundamentally different the yours, the closest resemblence was probably dem and the tap haha there it pretty much ends. You only gave the <5 sec kill inspiration to be back in 2010, sorr mini you also werent the first with the dem doff or the 'inventor'
Stop spewing around that same thought process till eternity
I think you are a bit sad that for this time you werent responsible for a nerf mini
I don't know, I think we can trace this back to some of not-Mini's thread on the matter of the doubletap and bringing it to the attention of the general populace.
This almost sounds to me like double tapping BO was targeted first simply because high level PvPers were the only ones able to pull it off with a modicum of success. If so, this is a troubling mindset. Please Hawk, correct me if I'm mistaken -- because I'd rather not be right this time -- and while you're at it, do you ever intend to balance the few outlying abilities that basically amount to "I-Win" buttons in all but the most feeble of hands?
Of course this is why.
That's why all of the new healing and mitigation is not skill based.
It is grind and pay based.
It's all loaded into Rep systems (grind + pay), Fleet Gear (multiplayer coordinated grind + pay), or it's packed into C-store consoles like the Valdore shield heal (pay based).
All of it is fire and forget, its always on. It doesn't require skill, or timing.
...but one need only look around at so much that's been added to the game to see that Cryptic's intended audience for STO - well, they generally don't have a modicum of success with the simplest of things.
Things are either nerfed or added to the game to cater to that audience...
...so it wouldn't be much of a stretch to see this being targeted "first" as being part of catering to that intended audience.
I don't think it would be prudent for any employee to respond either for or against.
That doesn't mean I think you are off the mark either.
I'm not saying that this change isn't needed, but I don't think enough consideration is given to the "bleeding-edge, very high-knowledge players".
These are the people the game SHOULD be considering when working out the necessary changes to PvP. I'm sure the statement was meant as a compliment to those of us who consider ourselves bleeding-edge PvPers, but I think it serves more to highlight the fact that if we want to make high-end PvP playable, we're on our own (still).
The best MMO's attempt to build a solid, competitive meta-game, and then work backwards to try and simplify things so newer players aren't facing such a drastic skill and learning curve. From reading this, it sounds more like the model is going to remain that the game is overly complex and one-sided at the top level, and instead of fixing the meta game, the plan is just to make it more playable for casuals when playing other casuals (which is what Cryptic seems to think that casuals want).
Casuals DO NOT want this, because it means they're going to face off against unbeatable roving bands of premade teams who know how to dominate based on imbalanced hidden advantages. To the casuals, it looks like hacks or magic, because they'll probably never figure out how it's done (this is what we have now).
I have to say vox, you basically summed up the entire heart of the greater issue (not just double taps) at play.
Well done.
Actually this post of yours is so good, I'd encourage you to start a thread on it.
It's worth discussing at a macro level, so we can move away from micro-scale issues like this thread's focus.
for all those haters that say, "oh no now we cannot kill in less than 5 seconds" i will say me and zelda for a long time that we have tactics to get kills in that time zone... and i have 3 team mates appart from zelda to confirm that...
the problem is that you guys got used to a style of game and now are afraid of the change...
if a group of guys that most of you consider inferior players can do it, why cant you do it...
its a thing called team coordination... and synergy... and its a thing that me and my team been working on the last months...
of course i will not give away my build here but like i said its possible... and if you want to know it just ask the teams we fought on NoBS#3 and NoBS#4(before the final) all those matches we didnt use double tap and we still won...including the pandas (B) team...Inner Circle, and many other fleets that are on the pvp circle...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed) Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
for all those haters that say, "oh no now we cannot kill in less than 5 seconds" i will say me and zelda for a long time that we have tactics to get kills in that time zone... and i have 3 team mates appart from zelda to confirm that...
the problem is that you guys got used to a style of game and now are afraid of the change...
if a group of guys that most of you consider inferior players can do it, why cant you do it...
its a thing called team coordination... and synergy... and its a thing that me and my team been working on the last months...
of course i will not give away my build here but like i said its possible... and if you want to know it just ask the teams we fought on NoBS#3 and NoBS#4(before the final) all those matches we didnt use double tap and we still won...including the pandas (B) team...Inner Circle, and many other fleets that are on the pvp circle...
youre a noob and mts a known cheat. this ****ty game wont be missed. toodaloo. irony is i agree with jorf, thus it really is time to go. and mt u ****** i told, showed, and badically shoved marion up ur TRIBBLE, hell still pen for all dhc fegs.
i wish i could say bye to the cool kids. but tjey left a while back
for all those haters that say, "oh no now we cannot kill in less than 5 seconds" i will say me and zelda for a long time that we have tactics to get kills in that time zone... and i have 3 team mates appart from zelda to confirm that...
the problem is that you guys got used to a style of game and now are afraid of the change...
if a group of guys that most of you consider inferior players can do it, why cant you do it...
its a thing called team coordination... and synergy... and its a thing that me and my team been working on the last months...
of course i will not give away my build here but like i said its possible... and if you want to know it just ask the teams we fought on NoBS#3 and NoBS#4(before the final) all those matches we didnt use double tap and we still won...including the pandas (B) team...Inner Circle, and many other fleets that are on the pvp circle...
^^^ You know what we ran in that match??? Well there it is. (No BS #3 rules super strict --- on our part!)
We didn't RUN EWP.
We didn't run Nimbus.
Stop your ****ing crying.
The video you posted was just absolutely stupid. I have the match frapped too durp.
You died from teamwork not double tap. One BO hit you.
Anyway lol.
how are u so out of step? mt admits he wantred it nerfed, thats why faggo shoots only with snb. lol at that video, damned shame hobos was infiltrated by fail feds. //not looking back
how are u so out of step? mt admits he wantred it nerfed, thats why faggo shoots only with snb. lol at that video, damned shame hobos was infiltrated by fail feds. //not looking back
This is a good change if there are some complementary changes to healing/resists/fleet shields etc. Otherwise, it's too extreme. Either way double tapping needed at least a slight nerf.
That said, I'm disappointed that Cryptic is dropping a major nerf hammer on an extremely skill-dependent strategy that is quite difficult to pull off while ignoring far worse imbalances that are usable to anyone who is able to click a button -- TIF and GPG for example. In a sane world the later should have been given far higher priority than the former.
This almost sounds to me like double tapping BO was targeted first simply because high level PvPers were the only ones able to pull it off with a modicum of success. If so, this is a troubling mindset. Please Hawk, correct me if I'm mistaken -- because I'd rather not be right this time -- and while you're at it, do you ever intend to balance the few outlying abilities that basically amount to "I-Win" buttons in all but the most feeble of hands?
time for bottle of scotland's finest .....my thoughts exactly
how are u so out of step? mt admits he wantred it nerfed, thats why faggo shoots only with snb. lol at that video, damned shame hobos was infiltrated by fail feds. //not looking back
How are you so out of step? I watch his 9 second video and presented the facts.
They, NOVA, asked for a match. We did the match cleaner than we needed too.
Your HOBOs did a mach against us too. Those same provide proof of lolz when teamwork is the real hax. Sorry. J/S. If you ask for a premade in OPVP and lose and try to post some BS 9 second youtube that is clearly BS ... Well you will be called on it.
Comments
Okay. Hai who are you now?
I lol'd Mini. BO1 hitting for 70+ is possible. It's not any players fault for seeing it months ago. I even made a post to players back in April.
Attacking Pandas is just childish. I have fought with and against them the last 2 years and before that when they were in other fleets. Old > New. It's the way it is. I guess I just suck. But I don't see much of a challenge out there against Pandas or even my own fleet.
All I see is a bunch of QQ from players butt hurt they aren't winning because they have all the newest durp TRIBBLE. So Zelda, QQ more. Ivan, Double shield more (Hai Dolce,) Mini don't bring your drama to TD.
kkthxbai
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
well looks like feds win, u can play with yourself forever now dont think u wont lose just as hard to mt in bug ship
If this does happen, we will all adapt again, unfortunately it's a like yo yo which it shouldn't. In an ideal world it should be a consistant and reasonable in terms of the game.
New people will confused by these forums a few months from now, not knowing which way to go.
This will be interesting times for STO.... again
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Lol, yeah
Time to dust off and unpack my bug ship now
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
I was testing a build without 'double-tap' before then that does quite a bit of damage anyhow.
It'll be interesting to see what **** people come up with.
More head banging probably lol
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
This change doesn't effect tac init at all.
You can still run overload 3 every 15s with tac init... you simply can't load overload 3.... wait 15s fire it... and then reload to fire it again... due to the new 5s lockout.
You also can't load Overload 2... then Overload 3... and pop them both off instant like.
Tac init is still going to allow us to run HY 3 Overload 3 Rapid 3... as if we had 2 copies.
The only things this stops is a ton of spike from one source (overload)... it doesn't stop us from loading up spike from Multiple sources... like Torps cannons and Beams.
The change is fine... I am not exactly happy that the level of shield healing and resists still make torps a hit or complete miss though.
The amount of Shield tanking junk in the game needs a look.
Nah, Marion is still useful on different builds.
Believe me, you can still do a metric ****ton of damage even without double tap.
The pve kids see more value in marion then we do.
Aww.....foiled!
AtB FAW DEM...yep, they're rocking with Marion...
I know I made over 300m on them. Not my fault they weren't as useful as I thought and people were willing to pay the price.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
That said, I'm disappointed that Cryptic is dropping a major nerf hammer on an extremely skill-dependent strategy that is quite difficult to pull off while ignoring far worse imbalances that are usable to anyone who is able to click a button -- TIF and GPG for example. In a sane world the later should have been given far higher priority than the former.
This almost sounds to me like double tapping BO was targeted first simply because high level PvPers were the only ones able to pull it off with a modicum of success. If so, this is a troubling mindset. Please Hawk, correct me if I'm mistaken -- because I'd rather not be right this time -- and while you're at it, do you ever intend to balance the few outlying abilities that basically amount to "I-Win" buttons in all but the most feeble of hands?
I'm not Hawk, I don't work for Cryptic, and can only state this particular observation as a player...
...but one need only look around at so much that's been added to the game to see that Cryptic's intended audience for STO - well, they generally don't have a modicum of success with the simplest of things.
Things are either nerfed or added to the game to cater to that audience...
...so it wouldn't be much of a stretch to see this being targeted "first" as being part of catering to that intended audience.
Hawk could obviously come back and say that's not the case...and well, sure - okay.
Thank you for changes, best news we have heard for months, i already started to think that devs dont care about pvp.
I'm not saying that this change isn't needed, but I don't think enough consideration is given to the "bleeding-edge, very high-knowledge players".
These are the people the game SHOULD be considering when working out the necessary changes to PvP. I'm sure the statement was meant as a compliment to those of us who consider ourselves bleeding-edge PvPers, but I think it serves more to highlight the fact that if we want to make high-end PvP playable, we're on our own (still).
The best MMO's attempt to build a solid, competitive meta-game, and then work backwards to try and simplify things so newer players aren't facing such a drastic skill and learning curve. From reading this, it sounds more like the model is going to remain that the game is overly complex and one-sided at the top level, and instead of fixing the meta game, the plan is just to make it more playable for casuals when playing other casuals (which is what Cryptic seems to think that casuals want).
Casuals DO NOT want this, because it means they're going to face off against unbeatable roving bands of premade teams who know how to dominate based on imbalanced hidden advantages. To the casuals, it looks like hacks or magic, because they'll probably never figure out how it's done (this is what we have now).
Again, I'm not sure that this is how the statement was meant to come across, but it seems to be all I can take from it. I do honestly hope that a solid amount of time is invested by Cryptic to go back over the mechanics of the game that already exist instead of focusing on what the next thing for sale will be (as I type this, I realize that I'm being a bit harsh here, yet there is quite a bit of truth to it, even if it stings).
This may be a necessary change towards making a better PvP, but only if there are more improvements and changes to follow. If there aren't, then they're better off simply leaving it alone.
Lag Industries STO/TOR Guild
Em, what? lol
I think you are a bit sad that for this time you werent responsible for a nerf mini
You really think i must coped yoir build, and now im back in my bug because im idealess and cant figure out new builds?
My double tapper was build fundamentally different the yours, the closest resemblence was probably dem and the tap haha there it pretty much ends. You only gave the <5 sec kill inspiration to be back in 2010, sorr mini you also werent the first with the dem doff or the 'inventor'
Stop spewing around that same thought process till eternity
I don't know, I think we can trace this back to some of not-Mini's thread on the matter of the doubletap and bringing it to the attention of the general populace.
Of course this is why.
That's why all of the new healing and mitigation is not skill based.
It is grind and pay based.
It's all loaded into Rep systems (grind + pay), Fleet Gear (multiplayer coordinated grind + pay), or it's packed into C-store consoles like the Valdore shield heal (pay based).
All of it is fire and forget, its always on. It doesn't require skill, or timing.
I don't think it would be prudent for any employee to respond either for or against.
That doesn't mean I think you are off the mark either.
I have to say vox, you basically summed up the entire heart of the greater issue (not just double taps) at play.
Well done.
Actually this post of yours is so good, I'd encourage you to start a thread on it.
It's worth discussing at a macro level, so we can move away from micro-scale issues like this thread's focus.
the problem is that you guys got used to a style of game and now are afraid of the change...
if a group of guys that most of you consider inferior players can do it, why cant you do it...
its a thing called team coordination... and synergy... and its a thing that me and my team been working on the last months...
of course i will not give away my build here but like i said its possible... and if you want to know it just ask the teams we fought on NoBS#3 and NoBS#4(before the final) all those matches we didnt use double tap and we still won...including the pandas (B) team...Inner Circle, and many other fleets that are on the pvp circle...
Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon
Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng
Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed)
Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
youre a noob and mts a known cheat. this ****ty game wont be missed. toodaloo. irony is i agree with jorf, thus it really is time to go. and mt u ****** i told, showed, and badically shoved marion up ur TRIBBLE, hell still pen for all dhc fegs.
i wish i could say bye to the cool kids. but tjey left a while back
// goes outside to have a life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmmA3F_SMXE
^^^ You know what we ran in that match??? Well there it is. (No BS #3 rules super strict --- on our part!)
We didn't RUN EWP.
We didn't run Nimbus.
Stop your ****ing crying.
The video you posted was just absolutely stupid. I have the match frapped too durp.
You died from teamwork not double tap. One BO hit you.
Anyway lol.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
how are u so out of step? mt admits he wantred it nerfed, thats why faggo shoots only with snb. lol at that video, damned shame hobos was infiltrated by fail feds. //not looking back
He was probably kidding, go take your meds.
time for bottle of scotland's finest .....my thoughts exactly
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
How are you so out of step? I watch his 9 second video and presented the facts.
They, NOVA, asked for a match. We did the match cleaner than we needed too.
Your HOBOs did a mach against us too. Those same provide proof of lolz when teamwork is the real hax. Sorry. J/S. If you ask for a premade in OPVP and lose and try to post some BS 9 second youtube that is clearly BS ... Well you will be called on it.
Shame you're mind has been infiltrated by ....
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]