Anyone that thinks double tap vape builds are easy mode, should try it out. It takes a lot of practice, adjusting, and timing.
Well, gohan already said it.
That's exactly why not everyone is flying them.
It's OK, we'll keep finding ways to kill people in under 5s until everything gets nerfed or the devs finally realize there is an issue with the kill windows we have.
Anyone that thinks double tap vape builds are easy mode, should try it out. It takes a lot of practice, adjusting, and timing.
I think people think their god when they vape someone whose shields are gone from borg shield neutralising, while getting their dalies in Kerrat, and those people who get killed cry foul on these forums.
You can see the issue there. Even Fail Vape builds will have some success due to the Pre-occupation to farming, but come PVP they will be blown away.
To be good at Vaping is more than just the build, obviously having a fail build wont help with your omega torps and Kinetic beam lol. But seriously, it takes alot of practice, timing and precision. You have to watch your enemies buffs and time it just when their apo or tt finishes, be ready to switch if they suddenly jump or go evasive, risking your death or decide to fight another day.
I emplore syou to try it out on my Fully equipeed SCI Free of charge to prove my point, i especially welcome fail builds who think they have found the next best thing since sliced bread
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
double taps have always rubbed me the wrong way, big time. its clearly an exploit of a loophole, regardless of how much you need spike like that to keep premade matches below an hour.
so, im glad its dead, but there is so much that needs to be addressed on the other side of things. talking about the healing is VERY on topic when talking about doubletaps, they have everything to do with each other.
with all the defensive passives, its time to explore these possible changes on the other end
-5 second long duration of TT
-RSP clearable by things like tach beam and CPB
-those dead shield strip skills lowering shield res as their primary function
-removing the resistance buff from ES, possibly reducing the duration or ES to 15 seconds
-changing all instant heals to heals over time
these changes would primarily lower the effectiveness of team healing, more so then a persons personal self heal potential. i find i very rarely even need TT anymore i have resistance and elusiveness stacked so high now. 5 second TT would be more of an emergency death preventer then a whole alpha strike nullify. i honestly dont think this would effect pve much, i cant remember the last time i had to use TT in pve. TT is for killing alphas, npcs dont, and cant alpha. they can spike pretty hard now and then, but no super high sustained over time damage is present, aside from being the target of a tac cube or gate.
RSP has always been to easy of an out, with only 1 counter, snb. abandoned due to uselessness thanks to the skill tree change, shield strip skills could be repurposed to be a counter, thus increasing premade team offense in the face of overwhelming premade team defense, without resorting to nuk stacking and more weapons spike. no npc has CPB, and only some sci ships npc have tach beam, pve is again unaffected.
ES is a pvp team skill. only in NWS is it used in pve. and i see someone new beat that like every day now, so...
ET and AtS and EPtS healing over 5 to 7 seconds would not reduce total healing, but like damage being what kills, spike healing is what saves. npcs deal damage so gradually that again, not much of an effect for them ether.
So basicly almost everyone with a cloak ship is doing double taps stacking BO2 and BO3, and even in the queues this is taking all the fun of the game, a person does not have a chance to defend their selfs against this type of game play, because this players will kill you in 1 second, so my sugestion to make PvP balanced again and to avoid people to run this types of builds would be:
1) beam overloads even from different grades ex BO1 + BO2 or BO2 +BO3 can not stack anymore.
2) after the shoot of a beam overload can not use another beam overload for 5 seconds, this will prevent people that charge a BO3 and wait until the last second(29 second abilitie ready to fire) to fire and load another one to fire again...
i think that this 2 sugestions implemented will prevent people to 1 shoot players without giving them a chance to defend themselfs...
This is taking the fun of pvp, because all you see now is teams that have 2 romulan ships running double tap builds and them 3 healers just tanking for ever while the escorts one shoot the other team and run...
I agree that the double tap is a problem in this game. the solution you set forth makes sense , however there are other things that are a great concern as well such as the Doffs that make them do 30% chance to ignore shields (energy weapons doff) . Pvp in this game is broken because of things like that and premades vs pugs as well. Pvp in this game is almost dead and so are the long waiting Ques.
sounds like escort captain crying because a cruiser can actually have a shot at winning in PVP to me. something tells me there would not be much complaining if it were CRF that was stacking
sounds like escort captain crying because a cruiser can actually have a shot at winning in PVP to me. something tells me there would not be much complaining if it were CRF that was stacking
If you have read the whole thread, this is not about Tac Cruisers being able to kill ships by double stacking BO. Rather the total opposite, it's about T'Varo's and B'rel's killing or at least causing huge damage by double stacking BO with a decloak alpha.
I can get damage output of more than 100k with beams alone, not including my other 'stuff' I use. But that damage doesn't always kill a well equipped and decent builds. It is not a guarantee but it is spike damage nevertheless to which thhis game has transcended too, for better or worse, time will tell.
CRF can never stack and shouldn't as it would not add to the damage nor effectiveness.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
well you yourself have said you have adapted to doubl taps and using Fleet Neutroniums and a few other items.
Your not always a guaranteed kill, only when others are helping me to disable you and debuff you.
This comes to my point, Double tapping is not 'the end all be all'. Far from it, it can be fought against and it certainly is not invincible. Look at the no BS tourney as a prime example, everyone though vapers would own the game and Jorge himself said with team coordination and a decent setup you can overcome them. There were certainly imaginative and creative ways to defeat the vape setup.
So everyone says BO is not fair, cus i die in 1 sec e.t.c. What about the 50s Grav pulse or the broken Emp or the warp plasma graphics glitch? They all equally bad, making you an easy target.
BO is not an I win button and I have seen several epic Fail builds trying to use it. You can give anyone a decent build and a JHAS but it takes experiance and skill to fly it. Look at so many Fail bugs recently, there is your evidence.
It is defendable Double tapping, whether by yourself or team.
sounds like escort captain crying because a cruiser can actually have a shot at winning in PVP to me. something tells me there would not be much complaining if it were CRF that was stacking
As an fyi the way the doff description reads, all damage is boosted via the bleed through boost for a short duration, not just the BO. This would include a CRF damage.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Aye Pheo, many a games very close with or without vapers, no QQ from me.
On a seperate note I generally don't want to say anything bad about my old mentor Zelda, but I have alot of respect for this fella, but on this point I disagree with him here.
He even gloated in a Cnth match with his Nova buddies that he has built his bug to withstand Vapes, which was true to extent with all his fleet neutroniums and stuff.
But what Zelda is saying today contradicts and perhaps outlines a laboured approach to ths issue. You want a quick fix.
You die you adapt and you get far greater awards for finding it yourself and testing it.
You die, you QQ on the forums, you get a nerf to said Death dealer, WITHOUT looking at all aspects of the issue, where's sportsmanship and professionalism in that. Exceptions obviously apply to which I won't discuss to go off topic.
You tell me which will enhance the PVP community or destroy it?
Anyone can have MT's or Emo's build, but it takes time and patience to become a master at vaping, but it takes a simple tac team and some quick keybinds to counter it.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Aye Pheo, many a games very close with or without vapers, no QQ from me.
On a seperate note I generally don't want to say anything bad about my old mentor Zelda, but I have alot of respect for this fella, but on this point I disagree with him here.
He even gloated in a Cnth match with his Nova buddies that he has built his bug to withstand Vapes, which was true to extent with all his fleet neutroniums and stuff.
But what Zelda is saying today contradicts and perhaps outlines a laboured approach to ths issue. You want a quick fix.
You die you adapt and you get far greater awards for finding it yourself and testing it.
You die, you QQ on the forums, you get a nerf to said Death dealer, WITHOUT looking at all aspects of the issue, where's sportsmanship and professionalism in that. Exceptions obviously apply to which I won't discuss to go off topic.
You tell me which will enhance the PVP community or destroy it?
Anyone can have MT's or Emo's build, but it takes time and patience to become a master at vaping, but it takes a simple tac team and some quick keybinds to counter it.
Not that disagree, but there's been a trend to nerf insta pop potential.
1. Reduction in Tric potential (used to be able to get over 40k base w/a Sci Captain).
2. Reduction in CPB/resists to shield stripping (used w/sci oriented bombing runs).
3. Passive resist boosting shields to reduce CRF alphas.
4. PSW damage reduction.
5. Change in HY for many of the lower end torps to fire multiple torps instead of 1.
6. Higher base hulls and shields (kinda goes w/#2)
7. Introduction of proc based repairs/regen boosts from Rep and Consoles
8. Reduction of effectiveness of TSSS.
9. Reduction of stun durations/resists.
10. Power handed out like candy.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
double taps have always rubbed me the wrong way, big time. its clearly an exploit of a loophole, regardless of how much you need spike like that to keep premade matches below an hour.
so, im glad its dead, but there is so much that needs to be addressed on the other side of things. talking about the healing is VERY on topic when talking about doubletaps, they have everything to do with each other.
with all the defensive passives, its time to explore these possible changes on the other end
-5 second long duration of TT
-RSP clearable by things like tach beam and CPB
-those dead shield strip skills lowering shield res as their primary function
-removing the resistance buff from ES, possibly reducing the duration or ES to 15 seconds
-changing all instant heals to heals over time
these changes would primarily lower the effectiveness of team healing, more so then a persons personal self heal potential. i find i very rarely even need TT anymore i have resistance and elusiveness stacked so high now. 5 second TT would be more of an emergency death preventer then a whole alpha strike nullify. i honestly dont think this would effect pve much, i cant remember the last time i had to use TT in pve. TT is for killing alphas, npcs dont, and cant alpha. they can spike pretty hard now and then, but no super high sustained over time damage is present, aside from being the target of a tac cube or gate.
RSP has always been to easy of an out, with only 1 counter, snb. abandoned due to uselessness thanks to the skill tree change, shield strip skills could be repurposed to be a counter, thus increasing premade team offense in the face of overwhelming premade team defense, without resorting to nuk stacking and more weapons spike. no npc has CPB, and only some sci ships npc have tach beam, pve is again unaffected.
ES is a pvp team skill. only in NWS is it used in pve. and i see someone new beat that like every day now, so...
ET and AtS and EPtS healing over 5 to 7 seconds would not reduce total healing, but like damage being what kills, spike healing is what saves. npcs deal damage so gradually that again, not much of an effect for them ether.
You know I could get behind some of these. If you try to do something so a non escort in PvE that is set up to be a tank can take that sustained fire from a tactical cube and gateway (to which you do need TT) then it would certainly remove the reliance on TT cycling too.
One thing to remember is that some of us do regular elite runs of STF and I have to say the tachyon beam thing will REALLY mess up a tank in PvE, again play ISE as a tank and then have a quick revision over tachyon beam.
ES? Is that Energy Syphon? Wasn't aware it had a damage resistance aspect to it other than the one from increasing shield power.
As for the HoT, for the most part I can't see it affecting PvE too much, I mean we all mostly get by on HE and TSS but keeping 1 or 2 as quick heals would be good.
For the most part tanking in STFs is zombie work but every now and then you get 5 spheres using tachyon beam on ya and your shields are gone then the gateway starts raging and when that happens it's time for a miracle...worker.
OT: The devs looked at the double tap, they came to the conclusion it was too much spike from one person and have taken measures to address it. There is no reason 2 people cannot fire 2 BO3's in quick succession, get skype or ventrillo etc to co-ordinate. Teamwork is imba and can drop anything in seconds if prepped for it.
Aye Pheo, many a games very close with or without vapers, no QQ from me.
On a seperate note I generally don't want to say anything bad about my old mentor Zelda, but I have alot of respect for this fella, but on this point I disagree with him here.
He even gloated in a Cnth match with his Nova buddies that he has built his bug to withstand Vapes, which was true to extent with all his fleet neutroniums and stuff.
But what Zelda is saying today contradicts and perhaps outlines a laboured approach to ths issue. You want a quick fix.
You die you adapt and you get far greater awards for finding it yourself and testing it.
You die, you QQ on the forums, you get a nerf to said Death dealer, WITHOUT looking at all aspects of the issue, where's sportsmanship and professionalism in that. Exceptions obviously apply to which I won't discuss to go off topic.
You tell me which will enhance the PVP community or destroy it?
Anyone can have MT's or Emo's build, but it takes time and patience to become a master at vaping, but it takes a simple tac team and some quick keybinds to counter it.
Zelda forgets PVP is a team game. There is a difference between good teams and fleets and him.
You know I could get behind some of these. If you try to do something so a non escort in PvE that is set up to be a tank can take that sustained fire from a tactical cube and gateway (to which you do need TT) then it would certainly remove the reliance on TT cycling too.
One thing to remember is that some of us do regular elite runs of STF and I have to say the tachyon beam thing will REALLY mess up a tank in PvE, again play ISE as a tank and then have a quick revision over tachyon beam.
ES? Is that Energy Syphon? Wasn't aware it had a damage resistance aspect to it other than the one from increasing shield power.
As for the HoT, for the most part I can't see it affecting PvE too much, I mean we all mostly get by on HE and TSS but keeping 1 or 2 as quick heals would be good.
For the most part tanking in STFs is zombie work but every now and then you get 5 spheres using tachyon beam on ya and your shields are gone then the gateway starts raging and when that happens it's time for a miracle...worker.
OT: The devs looked at the double tap, they came to the conclusion it was too much spike from one person and have taken measures to address it. There is no reason 2 people cannot fire 2 BO3's in quick succession, get skype or ventrillo etc to co-ordinate. Teamwork is imba and can drop anything in seconds if prepped for it.
ES is extend shields in this case.
The issue here affects PVP mainly and should'nt affect PVE. However I will say this, if you spec into PVP you will ROFLSTOMP any PVE mission... Period.
In regards to HoT mentioned, well the heals, resists has come to a point that pressure damaging takes alot longer than it used to.
If you think tanking in STF'S makes you a GOD, think again. I can tank a gate in my Scimitar or fleet Ha feh if I want as a tac.
But you should try head banging on my Recluse, please do. It will be a few days before I even notice scratch on the paint job.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Zelda forgets PVP is a team game. There is a difference between good teams and fleets and him.
J/S. The Truth hurts. But it has to be said.
^Shrugs Shoulders^ Everyone likes their moment of fame and glory, we all do to an extent. But I am more interested in the experiance, community and having fun pew pew without the unfun QQ with the top players.
But in all honesty yeah, Good vapers need a good team behind them. Without them they can't kill anyone in a premade as well.
A Vaper alone is just cannon fodder, out to the wolves. It is easy prey. It really isn't that difficult to face a vaper.. really. I am seeing more and more stealth detection builds that prey on vapers, people are adapting and being creative.
I suspect they will nerf Spike builds for Torps setups in a few months when everyone moves to torps lol. Bring on DBP3 and Mines
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Here's what will be coming to Tribble in the near future, using Beam Overload as an example:
-Having one Beam Overload buff active will prevent you from activating any other copies of Beam Overload
-Consuming a Beam Overload buff to fire a beam overload will trigger a 5 second cooldown period during which no other Beam Overload powers can be activated
-This 5 second cooldown period is not triggered if the buff just wears off due to duration/unuse, or if the buff is purged by a dispel effect.
I've added this behavior to each Tactical Bridge Officer weapon-enhancing power. This change is intended to leave normal gameplay completely untouched - if you are activating and then firing your weapon powers during gameplay as most players do, you should hopefully never see an effect from this change. If, however, you are stacking up multiple copies of a single weapon power over a 30 second period of non-combat in order to maximize one second of Burst Damage, you are the intended recipient of this change and will see a drastic decrease in the magnitude of that burst DPS spike.
This accomplishes what our category-based Global Cooldowns were always intended to enforce - that you can't use Beam Overload or High Yield Torpedo or Dispersal Pattern Beta back-to-back within a sub-5-second window. The complication before was that the Category Cooldown was triggered by giving yourself the buff from the ability, not by spending it to get its result - allowing you to wait out multiple cooldowns without consuming the buff to get one short cycle of tremendous burst. By adding a short cooldown to the consumption of these buffs, we hope to curve the abuse case without negatively affecting normal gameplay.
I hope these changes feel fair to you. Once the changes make their way to Tribble, please feel free to point out any cases where the changes may not be accomplishing their stated goals - I'm always happy to listen to any constructive feedback.
Is this change also going to affect "stacking" 2x HY, 2x TS, HY/TS...the ability to "doubletap" and even "tripletap" with those as well? I know that it's kind of off-tipic, this being a BO thread...but...you mentioned HY in your post and the same mechanic is possible with HY/TS.
Torp Ability #1, wait 15s, Torp Ability #2, wait until Torp Ability #1 has almost worn off - leaving yourself time for the Torp activation times...fire the Torps, then use Torp Ability #1 again.
A Vaper alone is just cannon fodder, out to the wolves. It is easy prey. It really isn't that difficult to face a vaper.. really. I am seeing more and more stealth detection builds that prey on vapers, people are adapting and being creative.
As it should be. Although they need to recheck the poor KDF since these builds can seen KDF >20km away. But in any event adaptation is a good thing in a game. This isn't 3 years ago where TSI dominated using the same setup for ages.
Is this change also going to affect "stacking" 2x HY, 2x TS, HY/TS...the ability to "doubletap" and even "tripletap" with those as well? I know that it's kind of off-tipic, this being a BO thread...but...you mentioned HY in your post and the same mechanic is possible with HY/TS.
Torp Ability #1, wait 15s, Torp Ability #2, wait until Torp Ability #1 has almost worn off - leaving yourself time for the Torp activation times...fire the Torps, then use Torp Ability #1 again.
extend shields. pretty much god mode when someone has it on them, cant be nuked off a person too
Iirc, you can nuke the sender (though why waste snb when a stun could do), but they changed the graphic awhile back making near impossible to trace back who the sender is.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
i just wanted to let you i win the previous tournament as team leader for novacore and the last one we did the final ...
[System] Link has been on active duty for 415 days, 23 hours, 9 minutes, 16 seconds.
[System] Zelda has been on active duty for 126 days, 11 hours, 51 minutes, 48 seconds.
Zelda forgets PVP is a team game. There is a difference between good teams and fleets and him.
J/S. The Truth hurts. But it has to be said.
..... i dont know what to replay lol exept: your just a TROLL
[System] Link has been on active duty for 415 days, 23 hours, 9 minutes, 16 seconds.
[System] Zelda has been on active duty for 126 days, 11 hours, 51 minutes, 48 seconds.
Well yeah, I can speed tank a gate in ISE or KASE. Hell I even made a chimera A2B speed tank a long time ago just for the lolz and could do it.
For those ships that do not have the increased defence though you do need TT to keep up with the damage from both the gate and the tactical cube and that's what I was highlighting. Having said that with records for all 3 original STFs pushing down to the 3 minute mark, maybe even 2 minutes you don't need a tank to tank anymore as things are dead before they can kill you.
Also yeah Extend Shields is pretty badass in terms of protection. Saved the starbase on Fleet defence many times from a bad team not healing it as much as they maybe should have.
Also please gohan, don't be so ignorant about things not affecting PvE and only ever being PvP centric. With this particular change about BO, yeah it's not going to afffect PvE. However a change in the way heals happen and how other abilities work which is what dontdrunkimshoot and I were talking about would have a very major impact on PvE.
Remember, the average player has trouble with STFs...wait for it....on normal. It's hard for anyone here to fathom but they do and if something appears heavily nerfed (rightly or wrongly) to them they will quit, which is not in the best interests of keeping the game paid and running. We shouldn't pander but equally we shouldn't just hit them with big nerfs to survivability and not consider things from their perspective, no matter how bad we think it is.
As I said I do like a lot of his suggestions, just some might need a little thinking over as tachyon beam is pretty much used by 5 spheres on 1 player in ISE which given his proposed change would cripple or spell immediate doom to most players depending on the duration of the resistance debuff.
Interestingly enough, could you get one of your teams of 5 in your PvP builds to do ISE/KASE or CSE and post the completion time. I'm just curious as to how well PvP builds perform vs PvE dedicated builds. I would do it the other way around with our PvE builds in PvP, but we did, we died, it was a slaughter lol.
My cloaked Test T'Varo is able to generate such a tremendous amount of spike that people think I am doing the double tap. If they looked at my buffs they would notice it's not the case. I like these upcoming changes already
for stealing my style to beat shields for torps and abusing it on all energy lamery supposed to thank you?
have fun playign again with 4 dhcs cus thats what u always wanted the whole time marc. thats what all u noobs wanted. at least u dont have to worry about the money lost kitting toons like most of us....
u really come on here and say some lame **** about how great you are and deserve our thanks. u just still hurting from that tricobalt one shot circa 2010 and cant let anyone play that way/ you think u are helping by seeking out whats broken and applying it with a proper strategy. A strategy that abuses whats broken sounds liek exploit quintessential. you didnt do anyone a favor. rip double tap
you shouldnt be gettign 70k on bo1 and u know it, has nothign to do with double tap. pandas win again. stackign the penetration doff was actually a skill play you admitted to me u were ignorant of how it even functioned. This is a sad sad day for all players in this mockery. The devs be shamed. WTF is tac ini for now?
So, correct me if I'm wrong then...but the following will no longer be possible with the changes:
BO#A, wait 15s, BO#B, trigger DBB.
BO#A, wait 15s, BO#B, wait until BO#A nearly wears off - leaving room for activations, trigger DBB/DBBs, BO#A.
HY#A, wait 15s, HY#B, trigger Torps.
HY#A, wait 15s, HY#B, wait until HY#A nearly wears off - leaving room for activations, trigger Torps, HY#A.
TS#A, wait 15s, TS#B, trigger Torps.
TS#A, wait 15s, TS#B, wait until TS#A nearly wears off - leaving room for activations, trigger Torps, TS#A.
HY#A, wait 15s, TS#A, trigger Torps.
HY#A, wait 15s, TS#A, wait until HY#A nearly wears off - leaving room for activations, trigger Torps, HY#A.
TS#A, wait 15s, HY#A, trigger Torps.
TS#A, wait 15s, HY#A, wait until TS#A nearly wears off - leaving room for activations, trigger Torps, TS#A.
Even when using a single buff and waiting to trigger weapons right before the buff wears off to use the ability again quickly will no longer be possible, because the 5s gap being inserted...
Comments
Well, gohan already said it.
That's exactly why not everyone is flying them.
It's OK, we'll keep finding ways to kill people in under 5s until everything gets nerfed or the devs finally realize there is an issue with the kill windows we have.
I think people think their god when they vape someone whose shields are gone from borg shield neutralising, while getting their dalies in Kerrat, and those people who get killed cry foul on these forums.
You can see the issue there. Even Fail Vape builds will have some success due to the Pre-occupation to farming, but come PVP they will be blown away.
To be good at Vaping is more than just the build, obviously having a fail build wont help with your omega torps and Kinetic beam lol. But seriously, it takes alot of practice, timing and precision. You have to watch your enemies buffs and time it just when their apo or tt finishes, be ready to switch if they suddenly jump or go evasive, risking your death or decide to fight another day.
I emplore syou to try it out on my Fully equipeed SCI Free of charge to prove my point, i especially welcome fail builds who think they have found the next best thing since sliced bread
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
so, im glad its dead, but there is so much that needs to be addressed on the other side of things. talking about the healing is VERY on topic when talking about doubletaps, they have everything to do with each other.
with all the defensive passives, its time to explore these possible changes on the other end
-5 second long duration of TT
-RSP clearable by things like tach beam and CPB
-those dead shield strip skills lowering shield res as their primary function
-removing the resistance buff from ES, possibly reducing the duration or ES to 15 seconds
-changing all instant heals to heals over time
these changes would primarily lower the effectiveness of team healing, more so then a persons personal self heal potential. i find i very rarely even need TT anymore i have resistance and elusiveness stacked so high now. 5 second TT would be more of an emergency death preventer then a whole alpha strike nullify. i honestly dont think this would effect pve much, i cant remember the last time i had to use TT in pve. TT is for killing alphas, npcs dont, and cant alpha. they can spike pretty hard now and then, but no super high sustained over time damage is present, aside from being the target of a tac cube or gate.
RSP has always been to easy of an out, with only 1 counter, snb. abandoned due to uselessness thanks to the skill tree change, shield strip skills could be repurposed to be a counter, thus increasing premade team offense in the face of overwhelming premade team defense, without resorting to nuk stacking and more weapons spike. no npc has CPB, and only some sci ships npc have tach beam, pve is again unaffected.
ES is a pvp team skill. only in NWS is it used in pve. and i see someone new beat that like every day now, so...
ET and AtS and EPtS healing over 5 to 7 seconds would not reduce total healing, but like damage being what kills, spike healing is what saves. npcs deal damage so gradually that again, not much of an effect for them ether.
sounds like escort captain crying because a cruiser can actually have a shot at winning in PVP to me. something tells me there would not be much complaining if it were CRF that was stacking
If you have read the whole thread, this is not about Tac Cruisers being able to kill ships by double stacking BO. Rather the total opposite, it's about T'Varo's and B'rel's killing or at least causing huge damage by double stacking BO with a decloak alpha.
I can get damage output of more than 100k with beams alone, not including my other 'stuff' I use. But that damage doesn't always kill a well equipped and decent builds. It is not a guarantee but it is spike damage nevertheless to which thhis game has transcended too, for better or worse, time will tell.
CRF can never stack and shouldn't as it would not add to the damage nor effectiveness.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Lots of fun matches with you in TD
kkthxbai
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
As an fyi the way the doff description reads, all damage is boosted via the bleed through boost for a short duration, not just the BO. This would include a CRF damage.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Aye Pheo, many a games very close with or without vapers, no QQ from me.
On a seperate note I generally don't want to say anything bad about my old mentor Zelda, but I have alot of respect for this fella, but on this point I disagree with him here.
He even gloated in a Cnth match with his Nova buddies that he has built his bug to withstand Vapes, which was true to extent with all his fleet neutroniums and stuff.
But what Zelda is saying today contradicts and perhaps outlines a laboured approach to ths issue. You want a quick fix.
You die you adapt and you get far greater awards for finding it yourself and testing it.
You die, you QQ on the forums, you get a nerf to said Death dealer, WITHOUT looking at all aspects of the issue, where's sportsmanship and professionalism in that. Exceptions obviously apply to which I won't discuss to go off topic.
You tell me which will enhance the PVP community or destroy it?
Anyone can have MT's or Emo's build, but it takes time and patience to become a master at vaping, but it takes a simple tac team and some quick keybinds to counter it.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Not that disagree, but there's been a trend to nerf insta pop potential.
1. Reduction in Tric potential (used to be able to get over 40k base w/a Sci Captain).
2. Reduction in CPB/resists to shield stripping (used w/sci oriented bombing runs).
3. Passive resist boosting shields to reduce CRF alphas.
4. PSW damage reduction.
5. Change in HY for many of the lower end torps to fire multiple torps instead of 1.
6. Higher base hulls and shields (kinda goes w/#2)
7. Introduction of proc based repairs/regen boosts from Rep and Consoles
8. Reduction of effectiveness of TSSS.
9. Reduction of stun durations/resists.
10. Power handed out like candy.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
You know I could get behind some of these. If you try to do something so a non escort in PvE that is set up to be a tank can take that sustained fire from a tactical cube and gateway (to which you do need TT) then it would certainly remove the reliance on TT cycling too.
One thing to remember is that some of us do regular elite runs of STF and I have to say the tachyon beam thing will REALLY mess up a tank in PvE, again play ISE as a tank and then have a quick revision over tachyon beam.
ES? Is that Energy Syphon? Wasn't aware it had a damage resistance aspect to it other than the one from increasing shield power.
As for the HoT, for the most part I can't see it affecting PvE too much, I mean we all mostly get by on HE and TSS but keeping 1 or 2 as quick heals would be good.
For the most part tanking in STFs is zombie work but every now and then you get 5 spheres using tachyon beam on ya and your shields are gone then the gateway starts raging and when that happens it's time for a miracle...worker.
OT: The devs looked at the double tap, they came to the conclusion it was too much spike from one person and have taken measures to address it. There is no reason 2 people cannot fire 2 BO3's in quick succession, get skype or ventrillo etc to co-ordinate. Teamwork is imba and can drop anything in seconds if prepped for it.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Zelda forgets PVP is a team game. There is a difference between good teams and fleets and him.
J/S. The Truth hurts. But it has to be said.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ES is extend shields in this case.
The issue here affects PVP mainly and should'nt affect PVE. However I will say this, if you spec into PVP you will ROFLSTOMP any PVE mission... Period.
In regards to HoT mentioned, well the heals, resists has come to a point that pressure damaging takes alot longer than it used to.
If you think tanking in STF'S makes you a GOD, think again. I can tank a gate in my Scimitar or fleet Ha feh if I want as a tac.
But you should try head banging on my Recluse, please do. It will be a few days before I even notice scratch on the paint job.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
extend shields. pretty much god mode when someone has it on them, cant be nuked off a person too
^Shrugs Shoulders^ Everyone likes their moment of fame and glory, we all do to an extent. But I am more interested in the experiance, community and having fun pew pew without the unfun QQ with the top players.
But in all honesty yeah, Good vapers need a good team behind them. Without them they can't kill anyone in a premade as well.
A Vaper alone is just cannon fodder, out to the wolves. It is easy prey. It really isn't that difficult to face a vaper.. really. I am seeing more and more stealth detection builds that prey on vapers, people are adapting and being creative.
I suspect they will nerf Spike builds for Torps setups in a few months when everyone moves to torps lol. Bring on DBP3 and Mines
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Is this change also going to affect "stacking" 2x HY, 2x TS, HY/TS...the ability to "doubletap" and even "tripletap" with those as well? I know that it's kind of off-tipic, this being a BO thread...but...you mentioned HY in your post and the same mechanic is possible with HY/TS.
Torp Ability #1, wait 15s, Torp Ability #2, wait until Torp Ability #1 has almost worn off - leaving yourself time for the Torp activation times...fire the Torps, then use Torp Ability #1 again.
As it should be. Although they need to recheck the poor KDF since these builds can seen KDF >20km away. But in any event adaptation is a good thing in a game. This isn't 3 years ago where TSI dominated using the same setup for ages.
Cheers!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=623601
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Iirc, you can nuke the sender (though why waste snb when a stun could do), but they changed the graphic awhile back making near impossible to trace back who the sender is.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Er...color me confused.
i just wanted to let you i win the previous tournament as team leader for novacore and the last one we did the final ...
[System] Zelda has been on active duty for 126 days, 11 hours, 51 minutes, 48 seconds.
French Canadian
..... i dont know what to replay lol exept: your just a TROLL
[System] Zelda has been on active duty for 126 days, 11 hours, 51 minutes, 48 seconds.
French Canadian
For those ships that do not have the increased defence though you do need TT to keep up with the damage from both the gate and the tactical cube and that's what I was highlighting. Having said that with records for all 3 original STFs pushing down to the 3 minute mark, maybe even 2 minutes you don't need a tank to tank anymore as things are dead before they can kill you.
Also yeah Extend Shields is pretty badass in terms of protection. Saved the starbase on Fleet defence many times from a bad team not healing it as much as they maybe should have.
Also please gohan, don't be so ignorant about things not affecting PvE and only ever being PvP centric. With this particular change about BO, yeah it's not going to afffect PvE. However a change in the way heals happen and how other abilities work which is what dontdrunkimshoot and I were talking about would have a very major impact on PvE.
Remember, the average player has trouble with STFs...wait for it....on normal. It's hard for anyone here to fathom but they do and if something appears heavily nerfed (rightly or wrongly) to them they will quit, which is not in the best interests of keeping the game paid and running. We shouldn't pander but equally we shouldn't just hit them with big nerfs to survivability and not consider things from their perspective, no matter how bad we think it is.
As I said I do like a lot of his suggestions, just some might need a little thinking over as tachyon beam is pretty much used by 5 spheres on 1 player in ISE which given his proposed change would cripple or spell immediate doom to most players depending on the duration of the resistance debuff.
Interestingly enough, could you get one of your teams of 5 in your PvP builds to do ISE/KASE or CSE and post the completion time. I'm just curious as to how well PvP builds perform vs PvE dedicated builds. I would do it the other way around with our PvE builds in PvP, but we did, we died, it was a slaughter lol.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Don't worry about him, his SelenaG is easy target to pop. He is just mad that you are one of the few people that can still suceed without double tap.
/10char
for stealing my style to beat shields for torps and abusing it on all energy lamery supposed to thank you?
have fun playign again with 4 dhcs cus thats what u always wanted the whole time marc. thats what all u noobs wanted. at least u dont have to worry about the money lost kitting toons like most of us....
u really come on here and say some lame **** about how great you are and deserve our thanks. u just still hurting from that tricobalt one shot circa 2010 and cant let anyone play that way/ you think u are helping by seeking out whats broken and applying it with a proper strategy. A strategy that abuses whats broken sounds liek exploit quintessential. you didnt do anyone a favor. rip double tap
you shouldnt be gettign 70k on bo1 and u know it, has nothign to do with double tap. pandas win again. stackign the penetration doff was actually a skill play you admitted to me u were ignorant of how it even functioned. This is a sad sad day for all players in this mockery. The devs be shamed. WTF is tac ini for now?
/rant off
100th accoutn name say what
BO#A, wait 15s, BO#B, trigger DBB.
BO#A, wait 15s, BO#B, wait until BO#A nearly wears off - leaving room for activations, trigger DBB/DBBs, BO#A.
HY#A, wait 15s, HY#B, trigger Torps.
HY#A, wait 15s, HY#B, wait until HY#A nearly wears off - leaving room for activations, trigger Torps, HY#A.
TS#A, wait 15s, TS#B, trigger Torps.
TS#A, wait 15s, TS#B, wait until TS#A nearly wears off - leaving room for activations, trigger Torps, TS#A.
HY#A, wait 15s, TS#A, trigger Torps.
HY#A, wait 15s, TS#A, wait until HY#A nearly wears off - leaving room for activations, trigger Torps, HY#A.
TS#A, wait 15s, HY#A, trigger Torps.
TS#A, wait 15s, HY#A, wait until TS#A nearly wears off - leaving room for activations, trigger Torps, TS#A.
Even when using a single buff and waiting to trigger weapons right before the buff wears off to use the ability again quickly will no longer be possible, because the 5s gap being inserted...