I'm not sure some folks quite realize just how long 5 seconds is. Grab an NPC...attack it, trigger some buff just as you do...then watch five seconds tic by. It's an eternity. Do it again, this time - during those 5 seconds...see how many defensive abilities you can trigger. /sigh
if its wrong to come in andvape in 5 secodns how come its ok for the dev to come in and talk with us for 5 minutes?if pvp needs longer interaction before resolution, surely pvp nerf dsicussion does too. please pay close attanetion to the many comments that show the intended fix for this "problem" causes more harm than good. give it a re read u will find any numbr of possible route to go with less blowback.
Double-tap is bad gameplay - period, end of story. It's a workaround for a shared cooldown that was always supposed to prevent exactly what's happening. It fixes a lot of things about this small problem - but the point that many are making (and that I agree with) is that this fix is just a drop in the moderately large bucket in the grand scheme of unwinding and overhauling combat math to make things feel fair for both aggressors and defenders, and make combat between evenly matched adversaries take a more reasonable amount of time. The trick to any of these changes is that our PvE combat is in a pretty good place - people can have a lot of fun flying just about any ship, and can contribute meaningfully to queued events and basically have a blast. Therefore, any change to combat math that also affects PvE is extremely high risk - so the TRIBBLE we have to balance and tweak PvP pacing are limited to those that don't have unintended side effects.
It's not an impossible job - it just requires a lot of care and time investment. If things are broken or things are really bad gameplay, it's easy to justify stepping in and fixing something immediately. If things aren't either of the above but are still less fun or less engaging than they could be, we obviously want to fix them - it just takes more work and more time to get the fix right and minimize any external side effects of that fix.
That's a bit of a ramble, but I know you guys like insight into why we change things we choose to change and how we make the game, so hopefully it interests you/makes sense to you. Please try to stay positive and constructive in responses - I'm happy to entertain discussions and talk about things openly, but if you start flaming or posting off-topic things, it's really hard to justify responding to something like that.
Wrong; Double-tap HAS BECOME bad gameplay since LoR came with battlecloak, 5 tactical consoles, superior infiltrator, superior operative, elachi dual beam banks and duty officers with 35% shield bypass. Until that time Bird of Prey used it, but they had minus one tactical console and minus 6% Crth compared to Warbirds (Klingons also don't have space traits). BoP captains won't complain about the nerf (and it is a nerf caused by greed, at least Cryptic must asume some responsability for the power creep) since they already use torpedos.
But it's not the double Beam Overload nerf that bothers me; it's the 5 seconds discussion. In case you forgot, there's a whole class called Raider, that hasn't yet been deleted. It stil exists and one of the purposes of this class is actually to have a chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window. My questions is : will that chance be totaly eliminated in future updates ?
Wrong; Double-tap HAS BECOME bad gameplay since LoR came with battlecloak, 5 tactical consoles, superior infiltrator, superior operative, elachi dual beam banks and duty officers with 35% shield bypass. Until that time Bird of Prey used it, but they had minus one tactical console and minus 6% Crth compared to Warbirds (Klingons also don't have space traits). BoP captains won't complain about the nerf (and it is a nerf caused by greed, at least Cryptic must asume some responsability for the power creep) since they already use torpedos.
But it's not the double Beam Overload nerf that bothers me; it's the 5 seconds discussion. In case you forgot, there's a whole class called Raider, that hasn't yet been deleted. It stil exists and one of the purposes of this class is actually to have a chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window. My questions is : will that chance be totaly eliminated in future updates ?
Is it bad gameplay? Ask your self what the current meta game is at the moment to need to double tap.
Double tapping is skillful in premades and often difficult, insta popping people in Kerrat whil engaging borg doesn't count and shouldn't. It takes more 5 secs to kill someone. You failed to take into account the minute or so prepping the target, watching for his buffs, coordination e.t.c.
the execution may be quick but the coordination even longer. You can kill with a all cannon setup in a premade, just use SNB.
Ask yourself also will 5sec vaping still happen.. (the answer to this will be yes), and more people will still be crying out for nerfs, o a 4dhc crf3 killed me... nerf it.
You have to adapt your build to the current or future meta game or get left behind
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Is it bad gameplay? Ask your self what the current meta game is at the moment to need to double tap.
Double tapping is skillful in premades and often difficult, insta popping people in Kerrat whil engaging borg doesn't count and shouldn't. It takes more 5 secs to kill someone. You failed to take into account the minute or so prepping the target, watching for his buffs, coordination e.t.c.
the execution may be quick but the coordination even longer. You can kill with a all cannon setup in a premade, just use SNB.
Ask yourself also will 5sec vaping still happen.. (the answer to this will be yes), and more people will still be crying out for nerfs, o a 4dhc crf3 killed me... nerf it.
You have to adapt your build to the current or future meta game or get left behind
My 3 tactical consoles Fleet Norgh needs double tap to strip one side of the shilelds so i could get in some torps. Fleet Dhelan/Fleet Ha'feh with 5 tactical consoles, extra 6 crth, 3x BO doffs, elachi DBB doesn even need torps; or stuns, or holds ; accx3 and maybe the nukara console nulifies APO3 defense . TT, no shield utility.
Oh, people will stil get killed under 5 seconds.
I will repeat some points in case you have not read my entire last post:
"Cryptic must asume some responsability for the power creep"
"Raider... It stil exists... purpose.. to have a chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window "
"will that chance (chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window) be totaly eliminated in future updates ?"
My 3 tactical consoles Fleet Norgh needs double tap to strip one side of the shilelds so i could get in some torps. Fleet Dhelan/Fleet Ha'feh with 5 tactical consoles, extra 6 crth, 3x BO doffs, elachi DBB doesn even need torps; or stuns, or holds ; accx3 and maybe the nukara console nulifies APO3 defense . TT, no shield utility.
Oh, people will stil get killed under 5 seconds.
I will repeat some points in case you have not read my entire last post:
"Cryptic must asume some responsability for the power creep"
"Raider... It stil exists... purpose.. to have a chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window "
"will that chance (chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window) be totaly eliminated in future updates ?"
well the simple answer will be No to all since cryptic has no interest in any of them except to nerf for the 'casual' player
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Technician procs should only be affecting Bridge Officer abilities as far as I'm aware, although this proc predates my tenure here so I could be wrong on that.
The D'Kora EMP burst being affected by A2B has been known about for ages now. Seems everyone knows about it apart from you. Pathetic really.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
becus liek ghe sais, hes a noob dev. literally no memory or care about thow the game started or developed. he comes in and says "HEY WTF PEOPLE ARE DYING! NOT COOL! MUST NERF !" then leaves to go back to whatever bs TRIBBLE he does normally. i cant reiterate hpow patheitc, uninformed, and silly looking the dev responses have been on this issue. really really sad.
nooby TRIBBLE dev, the game being good "predated your tenure"
I understand you are upset and you don't mean what you said. In our skirmishes yesterday, I noticed you have incorporated new tactics and started to mix up your attacks, which made you far less predictable than before. Without a doubt, the upcoming fix of double BO exploit has forced you to come with more creative attacks, which have undoubtedly make you a better player than before. If you don't mind, I like to post the screenshots of our chat yesterday to help people understand the situation of BO-balance and what it means for others in similar situation as you are, hopefully, it will help you see the bright side of things, aka. its silver lining.
For the first time in a long time, your attacks have become unpredictable and I wasn't sure how to deal with you at first. Normally, I wouldn't even give you the chance to land any Crit shot but you managed to Double tap me several times yesterday even though none of them ultimately worked and you died following my counter-attacks - you almost got me though. You even landed a 65K BO III - I hope you realize how insane that was. T'Varo with 4 Tact consoles buffing a normally 1550 Antiproton DBB shot (@ Weapons Power = 125) by a scandalous 4300% in a single shot is already super OP at 65754. Your single BO III delivered so much burst damage that it would take that same DBB firing at maximum Weapons Power for almost a minute to reproduce the same amount of damage. Remember when Vang was one-shot by you recently and he came to this thread to QQ about it because you shoot through his RSP? I did not foresee a single Crit shot from you could have done so much damage, you best my estimation by a wooping 50%. You also realize at 65K+ in one single shot, that's already greater than the hull of the toughest of all cruisers. Now, let's put this in perspective. If we continue to allow you or anyone else to Double Tap, effectively doubling up the above mentioned shot provided both went critical - is there realistically any counter possible against such attack? The answer is none.
Some people like to claim there are a "gazillion ways" to counter double tap - those are nice in theory because well, they are only good in theory. To survive a real Double Tap, it actually requires some luck on the part of the defender. The reason being a seasoned double tapper like yourself carefully watch for buffs and almost always only attack when the target is already overwhelmed or fully engaged against other targets. In other words, you pick the most opportunistic time to engage your decloak alpha and the target realistically had 1 second or less to react because you can engage tractor as soon as you hit decloak even before you are fully decloaked. With so many ships cloaking and decloaking, it's no longer possible to discern whether the decloaking sound comes from a friend or foe - I have often reacted to false alarms. So my only cue is when I noticed a tractor locking on and spoted you flying close from the corner of my eye. And naturally, I was already in another battle when you decloaked to attak although in the back of my mind, I was saving buffs just in case for such attack because I knew you are nearby and you would only target me and no one else. Had you approached me from a different camera angle, the outcome could have been very different. Know that each of my shield facing has an effective shielding close to 60K each side yet you still managed to down one facing against a ship that is flying at 100+ = that is 35% faster than Ramming Speed, it shows how skilled you truly are but at the same time, it also illustrates how desperate most PvPers, even most elite PvPers would be, totally hopeless against your double tap. The attacks were so fast, as the target, I couldn't even see the two shots that hit me, hence why I asked you later if it was in fact Double Tap, which you confirmed. It goes to show how seriously broken Double Tap is regardless whether you were successful or not in your attacks. I honestly believe I survived yesterday in part due to luck. Yes, your shot crit otherwise you probably won't even be able to pierce my shields but I was lucky that I had a buff readily available when you attacked considering how badly the Klink outnumbered Fed last night in Kerrat - I spent the whole time getting gangked up 1 to 5 before you showed up, which became 1 to 7, not even funny - had to take refuge near the Borg a few times, how ironic... :cool:
Not everyone can afford a 500 million ec price tag in ship + equipment + consoles + doffs. And if that's what it takes to survive double tap and Klingon ganking, then there is something seriously broken about PvP.
I believe you can continue to adapt and come up with ways to beat anyone without Double Tap - you have already demonstrated considerable creativity in the new way you approached me in such a short period of time. In other words, the reliance on Double Tap made you stagnant for so long but now that it will be gone, it has forced you to think again, which is an important silver lining in all this. Some may think : "Without Double Tap, how am I going to be able to kill anything?" The truth is you will adapt and surprise your targets. There is no better attack than surprise your opponent - use that, you can beat anyone with it.
tldr. ive got 34 boffs and a myriad of on the fly setups. you are a noob. you know nothign of the game andnever will. i decided to just keep it to myself. the next op thing when u die, and it doent show in the logs, and u dont know... u can spend hours figuring it out on your own.
tldr. ive got 34 boffs and a myriad of on the fly setups. you are a noob. you know nothign of the game andnever will. i decided to just keep it to myself. the next op thing when u die, and it doent show in the logs, and u dont know... u can spend hours figuring it out on your own.
LOL, it's true I am a noob. Though you keep getting blown up by a noob, so what does that say about you, Maestro Mini?
Can't even remember the last time you managed to beat me, Mini, regress much? On the other hand, I can't recall the last time when you managed to survive your own ambush against me. Why is that, Maestro?
So maybe you should try to prove it on the battlefield through actions as opposed to talking tough like a kitty hawk?
BTW, making up something on the fly is not going to work. Show me you actually have a strategy that doesn't involve exploit, broken toys (e.g. 50 sec Graviton Pulse) and etc. because well, without it, you ain't going anywhere, that much is certain.
LOL, it's true I am a noob. Though you keep getting blown up by a noob, so what does that say about you, Maestro Mini?
Can't even remember the last time you managed to beat me, Mini, regress much? On the other hand, I can't recall the last time when you managed to survive your own ambush against me. Why is that, Maestro?
So maybe you should try to prove it on the battlefield through actions as opposed to talking tough like a kitty hawk?
BTW, making up something on the fly is not going to work. Show me you actually have a strategy that doesn't involve exploit, broken toys (e.g. 50 sec Graviton Pulse) and etc. because well, without it, you ain't going anywhere, that much is certain.
u have bad memory. but im not liek you or your kind, so i ownt post videos here to shame you liek u have doen to my fleet abnd friends. truth is you ARE a noob. a new player with no respect for the games tradtitions orthose who have come before you. your just one of the many nerfcriers who ruin games everywhere. u thought one shot with tricobalt was an exploit. not worth your time? thansk for post ur idiocy and condescending tone is recorded in perpetuity
u have bad memory. but im not liek you or your kind, so i ownt post videos here to shame you liek u have doen to my fleet abnd friends. truth is you ARE a noob. a new player with no respect for the games tradtitions orthose who have come before you. your just one of the many nerfcriers who ruin games everywhere. u thought one shot with tricobalt was an exploit. not worth your time? thansk for post ur idiocy and condescending tone is recorded in perpetuity
u have bad memory. but im not liek you or your kind, so i ownt post videos here to shame you liek u have doen to my fleet abnd friends. truth is you ARE a noob. a new player with no respect for the games tradtitions orthose who have come before you. your just one of the many nerfcriers who ruin games everywhere. u thought one shot with tricobalt was an exploit. not worth your time? thansk for post ur idiocy and condescending tone is recorded in perpetuity
Please post your videos then though I already know you can't because they don't exist. Posting youtube links is most definitely allowed, plenty of people have done so except I have never posted video of anykind because I have never taken any STO video and don't know how to do it anyway. Sounds like you are really confused but you aren't the first one. In any event, I play this game for fun, so I can assure you there is no button for you to push. I am just reacting with amusement, nothing more. For the record, the Tricobalt nerf is before my time, I can't possibly have commented on it because its nerf happened before I even started to play this game. But anyway, I forgive you for mixing me up with someone else since I am just a noob and am obviously a poorly skilled player who knows nothing.
Seriously, I am not sure right now. Either very very mad and possibly drunk, or troll.
just had enough of my good friends in game keeping secrets they knwo are game breaking, and holding perpetual biases. i should have read the writing on the wall long ago, this game isnt for me. do do me a favor, and play my 1v1 tourny and win i will give my acct to winner and be done with game forever.
Comments
Just joking, a round is usually 20s-60s.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Wrong; Double-tap HAS BECOME bad gameplay since LoR came with battlecloak, 5 tactical consoles, superior infiltrator, superior operative, elachi dual beam banks and duty officers with 35% shield bypass. Until that time Bird of Prey used it, but they had minus one tactical console and minus 6% Crth compared to Warbirds (Klingons also don't have space traits). BoP captains won't complain about the nerf (and it is a nerf caused by greed, at least Cryptic must asume some responsability for the power creep) since they already use torpedos.
But it's not the double Beam Overload nerf that bothers me; it's the 5 seconds discussion. In case you forgot, there's a whole class called Raider, that hasn't yet been deleted. It stil exists and one of the purposes of this class is actually to have a chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window. My questions is : will that chance be totaly eliminated in future updates ?
Is it bad gameplay? Ask your self what the current meta game is at the moment to need to double tap.
Double tapping is skillful in premades and often difficult, insta popping people in Kerrat whil engaging borg doesn't count and shouldn't. It takes more 5 secs to kill someone. You failed to take into account the minute or so prepping the target, watching for his buffs, coordination e.t.c.
the execution may be quick but the coordination even longer. You can kill with a all cannon setup in a premade, just use SNB.
Ask yourself also will 5sec vaping still happen.. (the answer to this will be yes), and more people will still be crying out for nerfs, o a 4dhc crf3 killed me... nerf it.
You have to adapt your build to the current or future meta game or get left behind
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
My 3 tactical consoles Fleet Norgh needs double tap to strip one side of the shilelds so i could get in some torps. Fleet Dhelan/Fleet Ha'feh with 5 tactical consoles, extra 6 crth, 3x BO doffs, elachi DBB doesn even need torps; or stuns, or holds ; accx3 and maybe the nukara console nulifies APO3 defense . TT, no shield utility.
Oh, people will stil get killed under 5 seconds.
I will repeat some points in case you have not read my entire last post:
"Cryptic must asume some responsability for the power creep"
"Raider... It stil exists... purpose.. to have a chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window "
"will that chance (chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window) be totaly eliminated in future updates ?"
well the simple answer will be No to all since cryptic has no interest in any of them except to nerf for the 'casual' player
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
The D'Kora EMP burst being affected by A2B has been known about for ages now. Seems everyone knows about it apart from you. Pathetic really.
Insulting Hawk isn't going to help our case.
becus liek ghe sais, hes a noob dev. literally no memory or care about thow the game started or developed. he comes in and says "HEY WTF PEOPLE ARE DYING! NOT COOL! MUST NERF !" then leaves to go back to whatever bs TRIBBLE he does normally. i cant reiterate hpow patheitc, uninformed, and silly looking the dev responses have been on this issue. really really sad.
nooby TRIBBLE dev, the game being good "predated your tenure"
tldr. ive got 34 boffs and a myriad of on the fly setups. you are a noob. you know nothign of the game andnever will. i decided to just keep it to myself. the next op thing when u die, and it doent show in the logs, and u dont know... u can spend hours figuring it out on your own.
LOL, it's true I am a noob. Though you keep getting blown up by a noob, so what does that say about you, Maestro Mini?
Can't even remember the last time you managed to beat me, Mini, regress much? On the other hand, I can't recall the last time when you managed to survive your own ambush against me. Why is that, Maestro?
So maybe you should try to prove it on the battlefield through actions as opposed to talking tough like a kitty hawk?
BTW, making up something on the fly is not going to work. Show me you actually have a strategy that doesn't involve exploit, broken toys (e.g. 50 sec Graviton Pulse) and etc. because well, without it, you ain't going anywhere, that much is certain.
u have bad memory. but im not liek you or your kind, so i ownt post videos here to shame you liek u have doen to my fleet abnd friends. truth is you ARE a noob. a new player with no respect for the games tradtitions orthose who have come before you. your just one of the many nerfcriers who ruin games everywhere. u thought one shot with tricobalt was an exploit. not worth your time? thansk for post ur idiocy and condescending tone is recorded in perpetuity
considering these two threads...
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=857471
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=857441
did you seriously just call him a nerf crier?
LOL
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Please post your videos then though I already know you can't because they don't exist. Posting youtube links is most definitely allowed, plenty of people have done so except I have never posted video of anykind because I have never taken any STO video and don't know how to do it anyway. Sounds like you are really confused but you aren't the first one. In any event, I play this game for fun, so I can assure you there is no button for you to push.
Seriously, I am not sure right now. Either very very mad and possibly drunk, or troll.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
just had enough of my good friends in game keeping secrets they knwo are game breaking, and holding perpetual biases. i should have read the writing on the wall long ago, this game isnt for me. do do me a favor, and play my 1v1 tourny and win i will give my acct to winner and be done with game forever.