This build is so OP I had to get out of my 2dbb Tvaro for a few days, was feeling kind of guilty sometimes, maybe I'll try it again a 1dbb 3dhc build with the penetration doffs and see how that compares to it.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of this mechanic - it's way too much burst damage in a short window. I'll probably take a look at this soon.
Yeah well just remember how much Marion cost I have a life a family and need to make a real life living to pay bills
Sto is
my fun on the side I will probably never have time agin to earn as much ec as it cost me so don't go breaking the whole mechanic of Marion
And most bops rely on BO for their alphas so watch how you work it or you might well just end up netting the kdf yet again
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
Double tapping beam overload has been around forever I don't see why this is all of the sudden a big deal? Even before Marion and warp cores it was doable with tapping beam overload 1 first to minimize power drain and then using beam overload II hoping that it didn't miss and it got a good crit. I still don't bother with III. Even then to do it right you need to be in the right place at the right time. Believe it or not this is not something that is easy to do. Please tell me your not all getting your TRIBBLE handed to you by this tactic on a regular basis. If that is the case please take a look at your defenses and resists. I'm not advocating for or against anything here this is just surprising to me that it is now a big deal considering how long people have been doing this.
Double tapping beam overload has been around forever I don't see why this is all of the sudden a big deal? Even before Marion and warp cores it was doable with tapping beam overload 1 first to minimize power drain and then using beam overload II hoping that it didn't miss and it got a good crit. I still don't bother with III. Even then to do it right you need to be in the right place at the right time. Believe it or not this is not something that is easy to do. Please tell me your not all getting your TRIBBLE handed to you by this tactic on a regular basis. If that is the case please take a look at your defenses and resists. I'm not advocating for or against anything here this is just surprising to me that it is now a big deal considering how long people have been doing this.
yes double tap exists for a long time, but before it was defendable with high hull and a couple of neutroniuns even one was enough... even if the double tapper used a weapons battery in between the overloads to push the weapons power up... i defend it all the time in kerrat on my vesta easly...
now with all the doff TRIBBLE buffing it, weapons with 50% and 100% shield penetration+hull debuff its impossible even on a recluse with 4 neutroniuns and 4 field gen with resilient shields, full points on energy resistence full shields a double tapper with minimal skill will get the kill, now imagine teams running 2 of them shooting the same person at the same time witch is not very difficult if you have a team with good coordination...
i will be honest i tryed double tap and i suck at it, but even sucking at it me and zelda double teaming on a target was a easy kill...
then we have the case of MT that seems to do what no one else is able to do in his double tap... that he alone kills a recluse easy...
now like i said in another post with:
Direct Energy Modulation doff no weapons drain
Beam Overload Doff 35% shield penetration
Battery doff that increases damage by 10% per doff
Tac team doff that gives you accuracy
Piercing Tetryon Dual beam banks 50% shield penetration
Elachi weapons 100% shield penetration + hull debuff
you really just need to decloak shoot kill run...
and like i said there is no skill when a player dies in less than 1 second...
because for a healer its impossible to react on time... im one of the faster reactors on my team when im on my healer i was already acused of botting because of that and even i cant react ontime...
my reaction times are arround 250ms to 400ms + connection travel arround 100ms x3(opponent shooting 100ms,server responding + 100ms, me sending information+100ms) , at the time im pressing the keybind for the player and the keybind for the respective heal he's dead...
the only cases were we are able to heal on time is when the double tapper takes that little bit long...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed) Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
Remove/ reduce shield penetration doffs and procs I don't think the BO or Marion is the problem it is all these insane cheese weapons and doffs that give shield penetration have made it a problem
Even though it really doesn't matter what we say or recommend the devs will just swing the nerf bat at what they "think" needs it, 90% of the time getting it wrong due to very little practical testing and it will mess the whole BOsetup up crypling bops and maybe cruisers even more
Which in turn will mean another load of grind or RL money spending to get the latest hair brained scheme to keep up with the rich which they will nerf a few month down the road
Wow there's a pattern arising here
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
Here is what I find funny about the shield pen doff.
They suck.
Seriously... the only reason they ever do anything at all is because fleet shields are such a bad joke.
Tac Team clears the Penetration debuff from the doff... which means like it has always been since the tac team change overload is in general eaten by tac team. (well unless you do nothing but one run beam and kinetic).
So when exactly does this doff help....
Helps nothing when tac team is up... but when someone waits till tac team is on 5s cool down... so the proc will in fact work... and now with all the shield resist thanks to stupid things like fleet shields that pen doff might make sense.
All it does is put things back to the point it was at prior to fleet shields. You overload someone between there tac teams and kill them.... the doffs counter the shield I guess... otherwise whats the point with any other shield... the overload removes the facing completely, its only fleet shielded goofs that don't loose a facing to even a weak overload hit.
Considering how they work I have no idea why anyone thinks these things are any good... there good for using torps to kill fleet shield kids I guess.
Here is what I find funny about the shield pen doff.
They suck.
Seriously... the only reason they ever do anything at all is because fleet shields are such a bad joke.
Tac Team clears the Penetration debuff from the doff... which means like it has always been since the tac team change overload is in general eaten by tac team. (well unless you do nothing but one run beam and kinetic).
So when exactly does this doff help....
Helps nothing when tac team is up... but when someone waits till tac team is on 5s cool down... so the proc will in fact work... and now with all the shield resist thanks to stupid things like fleet shields that pen doff might make sense.
All it does is put things back to the point it was at prior to fleet shields. You overload someone between there tac teams and kill them.... the doffs counter the shield I guess... otherwise whats the point with any other shield... the overload removes the facing completely, its only fleet shielded goofs that don't loose a facing to even a weak overload hit.
Considering how they work I have no idea why anyone thinks these things are any good... there good for using torps to kill fleet shield kids I guess.
Fleet shields are not that good as they were before... its really easy to kill someone in a team setup... all you need is coordination...
and thats is what im proud about all the premade matches we have done is that me and zelda or adam we dont need double taps... we just go there with coordination and we kill as simple as that... thats why this is a team game...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed) Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
Fleet shields are not that good as they were before... its really easy to kill someone in a team setup... all you need is coordination...
and thats is what im proud about all the premade matches we have done is that me and zelda or adam we dont need double taps... we just go there with coordination and we kill as simple as that... thats why this is a team game...
it ceases to amaze me u act proud of defeating klingon style. you took best pvper from klink fleet and turned fed. jokes on u, u will be triple tapped
yes double tap exists for a long time, but before it was defendable with high hull and a couple of neutroniuns even one was enough... even if the double tapper used a weapons battery in between the overloads to push the weapons power up... i defend it all the time in kerrat on my vesta easly...
now with all the doff TRIBBLE buffing it, weapons with 50% and 100% shield penetration+hull debuff its impossible even on a recluse with 4 neutroniuns and 4 field gen with resilient shields, full points on energy resistence full shields a double tapper with minimal skill will get the kill, now imagine teams running 2 of them shooting the same person at the same time witch is not very difficult if you have a team with good coordination...
i will be honest i tryed double tap and i suck at it, but even sucking at it me and zelda double teaming on a target was a easy kill...
then we have the case of MT that seems to do what no one else is able to do in his double tap... that he alone kills a recluse easy...
now like i said in another post with:
Direct Energy Modulation doff no weapons drain
Beam Overload Doff 35% shield penetration
Battery doff that increases damage by 10% per doff
Tac team doff that gives you accuracy
Piercing Tetryon Dual beam banks 50% shield penetration
Elachi weapons 100% shield penetration + hull debuff
you really just need to decloak shoot kill run...
and like i said there is no skill when a player dies in less than 1 second...
because for a healer its impossible to react on time... im one of the faster reactors on my team when im on my healer i was already acused of botting because of that and even i cant react ontime...
my reaction times are arround 250ms to 400ms + connection travel arround 100ms x3(opponent shooting 100ms,server responding + 100ms, me sending information+100ms) , at the time im pressing the keybind for the player and the keybind for the respective heal he's dead...
the only cases were we are able to heal on time is when the double tapper takes that little bit long...
noob core at it again. u are reacting so u will die. be ready or die.
For what I've seen, most good alpha strikers use photonic shockwave 1/3 and tractor beam 1.
No good vaper uses PSW3, let alone PSW1 anymore these days.
It once good, very good once to lock someone down. It got nerfed since Season 4 where people since then can spec into intertial dampeners, 6 points already puts PSW3 down to 2~sec stun, add some more deflector passives and what not and its down to smithereens.
Not even talking about how bad PSW1 is for stuns these days. Its merely useful for breaking Vesta shield or Extends imo.
then we have the case of MT that seems to do what no one else is able to do in his double tap... that he alone kills a recluse easy...
It's not easy.
If it were easy, everyone would be doing it.
I spend hours discussing builds and testing with the guy on an almost daily basis.
He will spend 2 or 3 hours in a single day just testing one mechanic like a tractor beam to see what the limits are, what is optimal in terms of graviton gens and aux. I could pose the question to OPvP at the busiest time and there is less than 1% chance any given player will be able to come up with an answer based on real hard testing like that.
I respect that, because that's what I do when I want to test a mechanic.
That's why it might look "easy" to you, but it really isn't.
So word to the wise.
You want your build to be good? You want to know the limits?
Sit down, and test stuff and don't listen to forum rants that barely have a grasp on game mechanics.
Sit down, and test stuff and don't listen to forum rants that barely have a grasp on game mechanics.
This. A thousand times this. The signal to noise ratio is frustrating at times.
It's also the one thing that worries me about Adjudicator's post. If you test double tap against unbuffed or unprepared targets is surprisingly effective, but not much more effective than the old "alpha + 4 dhc". It's also why SNB + alpha strikes work. It's not the debuff, it's the stripping of the targets preparations. Against stationary, naked targets or SNB'd targets double taps will be nerfed.
If Adjudicator tests it against builds that have defenses up, he will find that it's only moderately effective at best. Tac team, epts, rsp, evasive, epte any of these will mitigate the double tap damage an ENORMOUS amount, often not getting an insta kill and giving the target the preferred 10 to 15 second window to react.
Double tap builds look for weakened, debuffed, or unbuffed targets. Hitting one of these makes them shine. Hitting a prepared opponent is underwhelming. I sincerely hope he is differentiating the two.
When I die to vapers it's generally because *I* screwed up. I didn't cycle buffs, I'm standing still trying to kill someone or my shields/hull are weakened because I stuck around too long trying to finish that kill (fyi I do this all the time......I have to learn to let go). Depending on testing double taps can look really good or overwhelmingly "meh". Unprepared or distracted targets SHOULD die fairly easily to a good tac who is timing buffs watching closely. Prepared or supported targets should not, and don't.
I hope Adjudicator recognizes and agrees with that.
If Adjudicator tests it against builds that have defenses up, he will find that it's only moderately effective at best. Tac team, epts, rsp, evasive, epte any of these will mitigate the double tap damage an ENORMOUS amount, often not getting an insta kill and giving the target the preferred 10 to 15 second window to react.
Double tap builds look for weakened, debuffed, or unbuffed targets. Hitting one of these makes them shine. Hitting a prepared opponent is underwhelming. I sincerely hope he is differentiating the two.
I hope he does as well, but I really do think the signal to noise ratio you mentioned unfortunately drowns out points like this.
There are daily threads in this game right now that DHCs, BFAW, Beam Overloads and basically anything under the sun that can actually kill someone is overpowered or should be toned down. Especially if a Tac does it, because Tacs are the root of all evil on planet Earth.
That's why we have mitigation power creep, that's why we have 2 hour+ premade matches where no one dies for extended periods.
It's not the devs, it's players constantly begging for more ways to survive and be invincible.
No one likes to die, but until we (lol) get some other PvP modes all we have are Zero Sum Games.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz9yp-Rzeu8
Again 1,5 secs to die...
and i changed my build... instead of the usual 1 neutronium + 2 sif and 4 emitter arrays, i was running 3 neutroniums + 4 field gens... basicly 45% resist+19k shields... at 37% i was able to use aux to dampners with the doff resistence to 49% and someone gave me tss... still died...
and about the nuc... they were nucking randomly we could never know who the target was until snakie aka MT decloaked... so there you go....
for those that defend that double tap is not overpowered good luck playing this game im off until this is corrected...
5 secs downtime on the dual beam banks(all of them) after the use of 1 beam overload is the best solution in order for all the doffs and TRIBBLE that is out there doesnt have to be nerfer/deleted or whatever...
[irony mod on]
good job devs good job...
[irony mod off]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed) Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
I've been thinking on it a bit and TBH it really only works like that as decloak alpha. If you're not cloaked, it is very hard to stack two BO abilities and get everything else working within the opportunity window, because if you're that close to the fight then people tend to engage you, which results in your first BO unloading or your combo getting flummoxed in some other way.
And this isnt the only way that decloak alpha is [ab]used, either.
Maybe the most generalized fix here is nerfing decloak. Too much cloaking in the game now anyway
Here's what will be coming to Tribble in the near future, using Beam Overload as an example:
-Having one Beam Overload buff active will prevent you from activating any other copies of Beam Overload
-Consuming a Beam Overload buff to fire a beam overload will trigger a 5 second cooldown period during which no other Beam Overload powers can be activated
-This 5 second cooldown period is not triggered if the buff just wears off due to duration/unuse, or if the buff is purged by a dispel effect.
I've added this behavior to each Tactical Bridge Officer weapon-enhancing power. This change is intended to leave normal gameplay completely untouched - if you are activating and then firing your weapon powers during gameplay as most players do, you should hopefully never see an effect from this change. If, however, you are stacking up multiple copies of a single weapon power over a 30 second period of non-combat in order to maximize one second of Burst Damage, you are the intended recipient of this change and will see a drastic decrease in the magnitude of that burst DPS spike.
This accomplishes what our category-based Global Cooldowns were always intended to enforce - that you can't use Beam Overload or High Yield Torpedo or Dispersal Pattern Beta back-to-back within a sub-5-second window. The complication before was that the Category Cooldown was triggered by giving yourself the buff from the ability, not by spending it to get its result - allowing you to wait out multiple cooldowns without consuming the buff to get one short cycle of tremendous burst. By adding a short cooldown to the consumption of these buffs, we hope to curve the abuse case without negatively affecting normal gameplay.
I hope these changes feel fair to you. Once the changes make their way to Tribble, please feel free to point out any cases where the changes may not be accomplishing their stated goals - I'm always happy to listen to any constructive feedback.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Here's what will be coming to Tribble in the near future, using Beam Overload as an example:
-Having one Beam Overload buff active will prevent you from activating any other copies of Beam Overload
-Consuming a Beam Overload buff to fire a beam overload will trigger a 5 second cooldown period during which no other Beam Overload powers can be activated
-This 5 second cooldown period is not triggered if the buff just wears off due to duration/unuse, or if the buff is purged by a dispel effect.
I've added this behavior to each Tactical Bridge Officer weapon-enhancing power. This change is intended to leave normal gameplay completely untouched - if you are activating and then firing your weapon powers during gameplay as most players do, you should hopefully never see an effect from this change. If, however, you are stacking up multiple copies of a single weapon power over a 30 second period of non-combat in order to maximize one second of Burst Damage, you are the intended recipient of this change and will see a drastic decrease in the magnitude of that burst DPS spike.
This accomplishes what our category-based Global Cooldowns were always intended to enforce - that you can't use Beam Overload or High Yield Torpedo or Dispersal Pattern Beta back-to-back within a sub-5-second window. The complication before was that the Category Cooldown was triggered by giving yourself the buff from the ability, not by spending it to get its result - allowing you to wait out multiple cooldowns without consuming the buff to get one short cycle of tremendous burst. By adding a short cooldown to the consumption of these buffs, we hope to curve the abuse case without negatively affecting normal gameplay.
I hope these changes feel fair to you. Once the changes make their way to Tribble, please feel free to point out any cases where the changes may not be accomplishing their stated goals - I'm always happy to listen to any constructive feedback.
all i have to say is THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!
that is exacly what we need good job really
you my sir deserve a BIG LIKE!! on that post, just waiting for that to come live on holodeck
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed) Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
Can now PLEASE balance the boff's issue? the insane amount of CritH and CritD that romulan captians can have leaves fed/kdf tacticals complete outdated.
Marion will still be good... i use it on my scimitar full cannons... direct energy modulation is very good to keep the power up with the doff... the marion is not just for double tap... like everyone basicly was using it... i use it to keep my damage of cannons up...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed) Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
So how are we supposed to kill people in pvp now ?
Some combination of mechanical skill and game knowledge I guess...
If this one change drastically changes average time-to-kill in PvP, that means a.) it was super broken and b.) the performance delta between players with the knowledge of this particular trick and players without that knowledge was way too high. As always, we'll monitor the state of the game and make changes if they're necessary. If people are invincible now, we'll at least have a solid base to work from for combat pacing. However, I don't anticipate this change causing much of a difference at all outside of bleeding-edge, very high-knowledge players - and they will always adapt to use their high-knowledge to their competitive advantage.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Some combination of mechanical skill and game knowledge I guess...
If this one change drastically changes average time-to-kill in PvP, that means a.) it was super broken and b.) the performance delta between players with the knowledge of this particular trick and players without that knowledge was way too high. As always, we'll monitor the state of the game and make changes if they're necessary. If people are invincible now, we'll at least have a solid base to work from for combat pacing. However, I don't anticipate this change causing much of a difference at all outside of bleeding-edge, very high-knowledge players - and they will always adapt to use their high-knowledge to their competitive advantage.
I understand the goal, but you're leaving the root cause that pushed builds to spike extremes in the first place in tact.
10s Tac Team shield distrobution.
10s Tac Team debuff cleanse.
RSP that can now have a DOFF for 20+ seconds
Elite Fleet Shields
Omega T4 Rep Shield Regen
+DEF bonus inflation from Embassy and standard Rom BOFFs
All of this is on top of what we already had, which is cross healing, stacked buffs, no healing diminishing returns.
The spike builds you are looking at were designed specifically to somehow find a way to kill a target in the extremely short 5s kill windows that we now have in game.
So please, reduce some of the healing passives, resist passives, reduce TT's duration.
In the past year there have been 4 successful tournaments with 60 to 100 players or more taking part.
There is no reason that the game should be so warped at the high end that we have to force artificial rules to end matches at the 45 minute mark, because there is a very good chance that any given match can go for 2 hours.
Comments
Yeah well just remember how much Marion cost I have a life a family and need to make a real life living to pay bills
Sto is
my fun on the side I will probably never have time agin to earn as much ec as it cost me so don't go breaking the whole mechanic of Marion
And most bops rely on BO for their alphas so watch how you work it or you might well just end up netting the kdf yet again
now with all the doff TRIBBLE buffing it, weapons with 50% and 100% shield penetration+hull debuff its impossible even on a recluse with 4 neutroniuns and 4 field gen with resilient shields, full points on energy resistence full shields a double tapper with minimal skill will get the kill, now imagine teams running 2 of them shooting the same person at the same time witch is not very difficult if you have a team with good coordination...
i will be honest i tryed double tap and i suck at it, but even sucking at it me and zelda double teaming on a target was a easy kill...
then we have the case of MT that seems to do what no one else is able to do in his double tap... that he alone kills a recluse easy...
now like i said in another post with:
Direct Energy Modulation doff no weapons drain
Beam Overload Doff 35% shield penetration
Battery doff that increases damage by 10% per doff
Tac team doff that gives you accuracy
Piercing Tetryon Dual beam banks 50% shield penetration
Elachi weapons 100% shield penetration + hull debuff
you really just need to decloak shoot kill run...
and like i said there is no skill when a player dies in less than 1 second...
because for a healer its impossible to react on time... im one of the faster reactors on my team when im on my healer i was already acused of botting because of that and even i cant react ontime...
my reaction times are arround 250ms to 400ms + connection travel arround 100ms x3(opponent shooting 100ms,server responding + 100ms, me sending information+100ms) , at the time im pressing the keybind for the player and the keybind for the respective heal he's dead...
the only cases were we are able to heal on time is when the double tapper takes that little bit long...
Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon
Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng
Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed)
Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
Even though it really doesn't matter what we say or recommend the devs will just swing the nerf bat at what they "think" needs it, 90% of the time getting it wrong due to very little practical testing and it will mess the whole BOsetup up crypling bops and maybe cruisers even more
Which in turn will mean another load of grind or RL money spending to get the latest hair brained scheme to keep up with the rich which they will nerf a few month down the road
Wow there's a pattern arising here
They suck.
Seriously... the only reason they ever do anything at all is because fleet shields are such a bad joke.
Tac Team clears the Penetration debuff from the doff... which means like it has always been since the tac team change overload is in general eaten by tac team. (well unless you do nothing but one run beam and kinetic).
So when exactly does this doff help....
Helps nothing when tac team is up... but when someone waits till tac team is on 5s cool down... so the proc will in fact work... and now with all the shield resist thanks to stupid things like fleet shields that pen doff might make sense.
All it does is put things back to the point it was at prior to fleet shields. You overload someone between there tac teams and kill them.... the doffs counter the shield I guess... otherwise whats the point with any other shield... the overload removes the facing completely, its only fleet shielded goofs that don't loose a facing to even a weak overload hit.
Considering how they work I have no idea why anyone thinks these things are any good... there good for using torps to kill fleet shield kids I guess.
Fleet shields are not that good as they were before... its really easy to kill someone in a team setup... all you need is coordination...
and thats is what im proud about all the premade matches we have done is that me and zelda or adam we dont need double taps... we just go there with coordination and we kill as simple as that... thats why this is a team game...
Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon
Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng
Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed)
Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
it ceases to amaze me u act proud of defeating klingon style. you took best pvper from klink fleet and turned fed. jokes on u, u will be triple tapped
noob core at it again. u are reacting so u will die. be ready or die.
No good vaper uses PSW3, let alone PSW1 anymore these days.
It once good, very good once to lock someone down. It got nerfed since Season 4 where people since then can spec into intertial dampeners, 6 points already puts PSW3 down to 2~sec stun, add some more deflector passives and what not and its down to smithereens.
Not even talking about how bad PSW1 is for stuns these days. Its merely useful for breaking Vesta shield or Extends imo.
Raw Spike ftw!
Sorry for being in the game since 2010.
Honestly I couldnt if it gets nerfed, back to torp instakills!!
It's not easy.
If it were easy, everyone would be doing it.
I spend hours discussing builds and testing with the guy on an almost daily basis.
He will spend 2 or 3 hours in a single day just testing one mechanic like a tractor beam to see what the limits are, what is optimal in terms of graviton gens and aux. I could pose the question to OPvP at the busiest time and there is less than 1% chance any given player will be able to come up with an answer based on real hard testing like that.
I respect that, because that's what I do when I want to test a mechanic.
That's why it might look "easy" to you, but it really isn't.
So word to the wise.
You want your build to be good? You want to know the limits?
Sit down, and test stuff and don't listen to forum rants that barely have a grasp on game mechanics.
This. A thousand times this. The signal to noise ratio is frustrating at times.
It's also the one thing that worries me about Adjudicator's post. If you test double tap against unbuffed or unprepared targets is surprisingly effective, but not much more effective than the old "alpha + 4 dhc". It's also why SNB + alpha strikes work. It's not the debuff, it's the stripping of the targets preparations. Against stationary, naked targets or SNB'd targets double taps will be nerfed.
If Adjudicator tests it against builds that have defenses up, he will find that it's only moderately effective at best. Tac team, epts, rsp, evasive, epte any of these will mitigate the double tap damage an ENORMOUS amount, often not getting an insta kill and giving the target the preferred 10 to 15 second window to react.
Double tap builds look for weakened, debuffed, or unbuffed targets. Hitting one of these makes them shine. Hitting a prepared opponent is underwhelming. I sincerely hope he is differentiating the two.
When I die to vapers it's generally because *I* screwed up. I didn't cycle buffs, I'm standing still trying to kill someone or my shields/hull are weakened because I stuck around too long trying to finish that kill (fyi I do this all the time......I have to learn to let go). Depending on testing double taps can look really good or overwhelmingly "meh". Unprepared or distracted targets SHOULD die fairly easily to a good tac who is timing buffs watching closely. Prepared or supported targets should not, and don't.
I hope Adjudicator recognizes and agrees with that.
I hope he does as well, but I really do think the signal to noise ratio you mentioned unfortunately drowns out points like this.
There are daily threads in this game right now that DHCs, BFAW, Beam Overloads and basically anything under the sun that can actually kill someone is overpowered or should be toned down. Especially if a Tac does it, because Tacs are the root of all evil on planet Earth.
That's why we have mitigation power creep, that's why we have 2 hour+ premade matches where no one dies for extended periods.
It's not the devs, it's players constantly begging for more ways to survive and be invincible.
No one likes to die, but until we (lol) get some other PvP modes all we have are Zero Sum Games.
And that means, someone has to die.
Again 1,5 secs to die...
and i changed my build... instead of the usual 1 neutronium + 2 sif and 4 emitter arrays, i was running 3 neutroniums + 4 field gens... basicly 45% resist+19k shields... at 37% i was able to use aux to dampners with the doff resistence to 49% and someone gave me tss... still died...
and about the nuc... they were nucking randomly we could never know who the target was until snakie aka MT decloaked... so there you go....
for those that defend that double tap is not overpowered good luck playing this game im off until this is corrected...
5 secs downtime on the dual beam banks(all of them) after the use of 1 beam overload is the best solution in order for all the doffs and TRIBBLE that is out there doesnt have to be nerfer/deleted or whatever...
[irony mod on]
good job devs good job...
[irony mod off]
Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon
Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng
Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed)
Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
And this isnt the only way that decloak alpha is [ab]used, either.
Maybe the most generalized fix here is nerfing decloak. Too much cloaking in the game now anyway
Here's what will be coming to Tribble in the near future, using Beam Overload as an example:
-Having one Beam Overload buff active will prevent you from activating any other copies of Beam Overload
-Consuming a Beam Overload buff to fire a beam overload will trigger a 5 second cooldown period during which no other Beam Overload powers can be activated
-This 5 second cooldown period is not triggered if the buff just wears off due to duration/unuse, or if the buff is purged by a dispel effect.
I've added this behavior to each Tactical Bridge Officer weapon-enhancing power. This change is intended to leave normal gameplay completely untouched - if you are activating and then firing your weapon powers during gameplay as most players do, you should hopefully never see an effect from this change. If, however, you are stacking up multiple copies of a single weapon power over a 30 second period of non-combat in order to maximize one second of Burst Damage, you are the intended recipient of this change and will see a drastic decrease in the magnitude of that burst DPS spike.
This accomplishes what our category-based Global Cooldowns were always intended to enforce - that you can't use Beam Overload or High Yield Torpedo or Dispersal Pattern Beta back-to-back within a sub-5-second window. The complication before was that the Category Cooldown was triggered by giving yourself the buff from the ability, not by spending it to get its result - allowing you to wait out multiple cooldowns without consuming the buff to get one short cycle of tremendous burst. By adding a short cooldown to the consumption of these buffs, we hope to curve the abuse case without negatively affecting normal gameplay.
I hope these changes feel fair to you. Once the changes make their way to Tribble, please feel free to point out any cases where the changes may not be accomplishing their stated goals - I'm always happy to listen to any constructive feedback.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
all i have to say is THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!
that is exacly what we need
you my sir deserve a BIG LIKE!! on that post, just waiting for that to come live on holodeck
Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon
Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng
Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed)
Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
Can now PLEASE balance the boff's issue? the insane amount of CritH and CritD that romulan captians can have leaves fed/kdf tacticals complete outdated.
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
Marion will still be good... i use it on my scimitar full cannons... direct energy modulation is very good to keep the power up with the doff... the marion is not just for double tap... like everyone basicly was using it... i use it to keep my damage of cannons up...
Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon
Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng
Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed)
Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
Some combination of mechanical skill and game knowledge I guess...
If this one change drastically changes average time-to-kill in PvP, that means a.) it was super broken and b.) the performance delta between players with the knowledge of this particular trick and players without that knowledge was way too high. As always, we'll monitor the state of the game and make changes if they're necessary. If people are invincible now, we'll at least have a solid base to work from for combat pacing. However, I don't anticipate this change causing much of a difference at all outside of bleeding-edge, very high-knowledge players - and they will always adapt to use their high-knowledge to their competitive advantage.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
there is something called cannon rapid fire, try it, is very usefull.
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
its like team work ... i kill people everytime without double tap... and i actualy do it better that way...
Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon
Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng
Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed)
Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
It will still be possible to kill people... however yes this will highlight the games broken healing numbers a bit more.
I understand the goal, but you're leaving the root cause that pushed builds to spike extremes in the first place in tact.
10s Tac Team shield distrobution.
10s Tac Team debuff cleanse.
RSP that can now have a DOFF for 20+ seconds
Elite Fleet Shields
Omega T4 Rep Shield Regen
+DEF bonus inflation from Embassy and standard Rom BOFFs
All of this is on top of what we already had, which is cross healing, stacked buffs, no healing diminishing returns.
The spike builds you are looking at were designed specifically to somehow find a way to kill a target in the extremely short 5s kill windows that we now have in game.
So please, reduce some of the healing passives, resist passives, reduce TT's duration.
In the past year there have been 4 successful tournaments with 60 to 100 players or more taking part.
There is no reason that the game should be so warped at the high end that we have to force artificial rules to end matches at the 45 minute mark, because there is a very good chance that any given match can go for 2 hours.
120 minutes / 15 kills = 8 minute TTK.
Is 8 minutes a reasonable TTK?
*Already chnking new builds*