I probably will in the near future, since members of my fleet have started to talk about creating a pvp team. But I know myself, I pvp in kerrat almost exclusively, going into arena only to clear the dailies. Even then I pug FvK and FvF, and I have joined the opvp channel too. I almost never go in C&H. I doubt I'll stay long in premade group but I guess I can't knock it until I've tried it.
Hey, that's great. We need more fleets with a PvP team. You're welcome to hop in with our team one evening if you'd like so you can get a little taste of it. If you send me a mail to @DevolvedOne I could set you up with our TeamSpeak info.
Some premades are @**hats and out to troll using full team of temoral ships with inversion field and use that and every other console and doff they can think of even against pugs, but there are some that are good sports and will have someone sit out or will not use all of their cheese against a pug, don't let a few bad experiences discourage you, even 10, you just had unlucky day.
I hope kerrat gets fixed for more even sides and/or we get a new warzone, it will get more people pvp experience so hopefully the queues won't only be filled with newbies.
If OP is who I think he is, he runs a zombie A2B cruiser build in Ker'rat, condescends BoPs when they can't kill him in an alphastrike because he's a zombie cruiser and they're in a friggin BoP, and goes all 'rofl' when he's part of a Fedball that manages to kill a KDF ship.
This makes me a little less inclined to listen to his words, to be honest.
There is nothing wrong with pugging, per se, but in the end it does limit what you can accomplish in PvP. I enjoyed pugging for a long time, and still do from time to time, but there is only so much you can do, and it is quite rare that you can actually get a pug team that can compete against a well organized premade. The fact of the matter is that you never know who you're going to be teamed with so you have to build your ship in a way that you can survive without support.
.
I notice when I queue up with our fleet is to many times its just a slaughter and we are more competing with each other to get kills first then worrying about beating other team, thats a given. So many times I just end up pugging hoping to be on team of newbs for more challenge, or have to end up jumping on my Fed for FvK.
If OP is who I think he is, he runs a zombie A2B cruiser build in Ker'rat, condescends BoPs when they can't kill him in an alphastrike because he's a zombie cruiser and they're in a friggin BoP, and goes all 'rofl' when he's part of a Fedball that manages to kill a KDF ship.
This makes me a little less inclined to listen to his words, to be honest.
Yeah that is him, and its not really a zombie build, he just relies on RSP with doffs and was easy to trick him into wasting it by shooting at him unbuffed then using APA right after RSP runs out then boom. Zombie builds should rely more on keeping shield resists high and healed.
If OP is who I think he is, he runs a zombie A2B cruiser build in Ker'rat, condescends BoPs when they can't kill him in an alphastrike because he's a zombie cruiser and they're in a friggin BoP, and goes all 'rofl' when he's part of a Fedball that manages to kill a KDF ship.
If anyone has seen me in Kerrat they will see that 99% of the time i just run straight out of the spawn zone, I am in kerrat to do only one thing... farm. The only time i do stay in the fed ball is when i cant full impulse out of it and im stuck there... so i just hit space bar and start shooting.
Yeah that is him, and its not really a zombie build, he just relies on RSP with doffs and was easy to trick him into wasting it by shooting at him unbuffed then using APA right after RSP runs out then boom. Zombie builds should rely more on keeping shield resists high and healed.
Yeah its not a zombie build, its a partial zombie build. The reason that Excelsior is stacked towards being a tank and not the usual excelsior build of being damage is simple. I'm partially blind.
Before LoR when I heard a decloak sound i reacted immediately and this was when the excelsior was running 2x TT and 2x EPTS. Post LoR when i heard a decloak sound half the time it was a rom on the fed side and i had just wasted my buffs. I switched to A2B with the RSP doff for bigger punch while keeping the tank side of the ship.
I now rely on a bop or a rom tractoring me FIRST before i hit off the heals because half the time i cant SEE the damn ship. I've learned to live with my disability when playing games. Most of the folks don't even realize they are attacking a ship whos controller has only 70% vision due to Fuchs Dystrophy. Some players on the KDF side however have probably realized a long time ago that my reaction time is way down from other players and CONTINUOUSLY attack me in kerrat over and over again... and nine times out of ten fail miserably...against a partially sighted player, so your damn right I will call them out for continuously harassing me.. and failing miserably, against a semi blind player.
Moot point anyway, i'll be getting my EC's by other means instead of having to go through the torture of Kerrat every damn day, kerrat farming is as mind numbing as Risa.
This is the whole crux of the subject, its easy for folks like timezarg to call people out without knowing the full truth behind certain aspects of what pisses me off about PVP. My disability has nothing to do with it, that only affects the cloaking enemies and thats the reason i went with a semi tank build on the excelsior, so it can take that hammering for a few seconds while i see if i can find the dang ship on my screen.
What pisses me off about PVP is the UNKILLABLE ships... the jem bugs, which tank better than a lot of oddys ive seen. The Tholian Recluse, which is practically unkillable and is used as a very effective healer. It got to the stage that when i seen a Jem Bug on the opposite side i knew my team was going to lose. Why should I have to put up with that, after paying Cryptic money to get all 3 variants of the Excelsior, after putting in time and effort to make that old ship a heavy tank... only to have some lock box winner come right up behind me and take me down in mere seconds while my own weapons, and the weapons of 2 or 3 other people do absolutely NO DAMAGE at all to it?
Most of the time the pug queues are filled with folks like me. Folks who fly the "standard" federation cruisers and escorts. Its almost always the premades that have a mix of those tholian tanks and jem bugs.. and putting them up against standard cruiser and escorts is no match, no match at all.
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
What pisses me off about PVP is the UNKILLABLE ships... the jem bugs, which tank better than a lot of oddys ive seen. The Tholian Recluse, which is practically unkillable and is used as a very effective healer. It got to the stage that when i seen a Jem Bug on the opposite side i knew my team was going to lose. Why should I have to put up with that, after paying Cryptic money to get all 3 variants of the Excelsior, after putting in time and effort to make that old ship a heavy tank... only to have some lock box winner come right up behind me and take me down in mere seconds while my own weapons, and the weapons of 2 or 3 other people do absolutely NO DAMAGE at all to it?
guess steamrunners ,scimitars ,tvaros ,wells ,etc are fine.btw defiants and andorian ships deliver alot more damage than any bug.
please explain how is that unkillable thing.Last time I checked web mines can pop a fully buffed 70k hull recluse.Add some bleedthrough which now is at absurds levels .
PvP is not some brainless monotonous grind like PvE. Teammates heal each other. They coordinate attacks. Strategies are constantly evolving. New teams are forming. And if you don't want to get rolled by premades you should consider teaming up with friends-- that is, afterall, how premades are formed (the shame).
I find that pugging PvP is far more interesting.
You never know what your team will be like, what strategies you will have to come up on the fly with minimal coordination with your team mates. Its just plain more fun for me.
I don't know how premades can stand to play like that, healboats heal the escorts, the escorts wait until the healer's subnuc for their spike, rinse and repeat. Sure, there's other steps players can and do add in there but the overall process is the same. Where's the fun in that?
Its space combat not synchronized swimming! Premade PvP is, ironically, more like raiding in WoW than anything else in STO.
So no thanks, I would rather not run in a nice premade, using vent or TS, to coordinate a more optimal strategy and be able to respond to changing condition faster. And all for what? To stomp a pug that never had a chance? Premades have a place, fighting other premades; otherwise you're just wasting your own time by simply going through the motions. How is that any fun?
The solution is as obvious as it is easy, install pug only queus. Heck, make them cross faction if there's a concerns of splitting off the playerbase too much.
Long, long ago, on an abacus far far away, I used to PvP on a text mud. Teams were randomly selected but players had rankings based on previous matches. You didn't know who had joined up for the event, so you didn't know your team mates until it kicked off. Then you had 2 minutes to decide who would play what role, and off you'd go. In the background there were clans, like fleets, and while you likely fought some clanmates sometimes you'd still be friends at the end of the day. Clans would coach their members.
Scenarios were myriad - hounds and fox (one running target and a time limit), 2-3 teams vs each other, 20 players all-vs-all, mixed classes or otherwise, different time limits, different zones connected up. Best of all, you could spectate.
I'm a huge fan of completely random teams. Cross-tactics can be coached in those two minutes, and sub-team adaptations can be made if your team gets someone illiterate.
I may someday PvP here with my fleet if I get invited but with the emphasis on PvP grinding and elitist premades I'm not seeking it out.
I have to say, the OP raises a very valid point: A significant barrier to entry in PvP is the team format. While you COULD just show up alone, showing up to a team fight without a team is like showing up at a gun fight without a gun. Assembling a 5-man team of people who are perfectly synchronized to your schedule and don't have the attention span of a diabetic with narcolepsy is not exactly a trivial exercise.
And so while I attended bootcamp in full and am certainly very interested in taking a more active participatory role, I always find myself sidelined by the lack of a team and the crushing workload involved in the game itself, and mostly just dabble in Kerrat. Personally, I think we need more Kerrat-like things out there, as Kerrat essentially represents the only way a player new to the scene can get any practical PvP experience. Not to mention it would help to perpetuate the idea that we actually have a Fed vs. Kli war going on, the evidence of which is currently rather hard to find.
I have to say, the OP raises a very valid point: A significant barrier to entry in PvP is the team format. While you COULD just show up alone, showing up to a team fight without a team is like showing up at a gun fight without a gun. Assembling a 5-man team of people who are perfectly synchronized to your schedule and don't have the attention span of a diabetic with narcolepsy is not exactly a trivial exercise.
And so while I attended bootcamp in full and am certainly very interested in taking a more active participatory role, I always find myself sidelined by the lack of a team and the crushing workload involved in the game itself, and mostly just dabble in Kerrat. Personally, I think we need more Kerrat-like things out there, as Kerrat essentially represents the only way a player new to the scene can get any practical PvP experience. Not to mention it would help to perpetuate the idea that we actually have a Fed vs. Kli war going on, the evidence of which is currently rather hard to find.
I prefer Ker'rat for PvPing as well, for two big reasons: One is the amount of TIME I have, and this is important in a hit-and-run BoP. Assuming the zone isn't chock-full of Feddies farming their hearts out and resetting the zone every 5 minutes (I've friggin seen it happen, it's REALLY annoying), you can be assured you have at least 10 minutes to stalk a target, wait for an opening, strike (hopefully killing), and then moving on to another target. The only way BoPs can really be effective is if they utilize their attack buffs, which take 1-2 minutes to fully cool down. A fast-paced arena match could be done before I get more than 2-3 decent decloak alphastrikes in. . .there's pressure to move faster, to keep cloaking/decloaking and making relatively half-assed runs to keep up the pressure on the enemy. I don't like that, not when I'm using a BoP.
The second reason is the fluid population. It's nice to see the tide turn and take part in the renewed offensive, and make the Feddies run to another zone. It's nice to have that aspect to things. . .if only the blasted zones were a little more balanced population-wise (rather than the usual 10 feds vs 3 KDF).
I only pvp in ker'rat, and have only been doing it the last couple of weeks. My main is a fed eng in a FAHCR, so no point in participating in the queues, just not needed. but kerrat is fun as hell, fighting off a borg shield neutralizer along with a de-cloak raptor/bop is just...fun. sometimes I get popped, sometimes I do the popping, it's all good. It's simply the most fun i've had in this game thus far and I hope we get more zones like ker'rat.
PvP is complete disappointing in this game. I had a match C&H 5 Feds vs 5 Klinks the feds were a bit stronger in this match. Then i don't know why 5 klinks spawn in the same match now we had 5 Feds vs. 10 Klinks with 3 Klink JHAS. Now the match was over for the Feds. I don't know why developer have to annoy players it's complete unnecessary.
Ugh Hobo, you guys are pure evul tlhlngan with the shenanigans you pulled in kerrat yesterday :P. I still have nightmares, seriously who brings their premades in kerrat:eek:... For shame .
Ugh serena, snb overkill.
I've recently observed TRH doing that recently. . .it's not restricted to us 'evil Klingons'
Assembling a 5-man team of people who are perfectly synchronized to your schedule and don't have the attention span of a diabetic with narcolepsy is not exactly a trivial exercise.
That's what OrganizedPvP channel is really there for.
You want info on DOFFs, you go to DOFFJOBS / DOFFCALLS, and use the spreadsheet.
You want to run blazing fast STFs? You join one of the private channels of dedicated DPS machines.
You want to PvP with a team but don't have enough friends/fleetmates for it? You can set up or join teams in OPvP.
That's what OrganizedPvP channel is really there for.
I am aware. I hang out there regularly. They are a great source information, but the thing is, most of them already either belong to their own units, or as haphazard about it as everyone else. They're a great source of information, but most of them are either already part of their own units or have other commitments or philosophical differences which preclude forming one. It's fine if you're just out to form a better than average not-really-a-team to get rolled by an actual team, but not terrific for trying to start an actual team.
I am aware. I hang out there regularly. They are a great source information, but the thing is, most of them already either belong to their own units, or as haphazard about it as everyone else. They're a great source of information, but most of them are either already part of their own units or have other commitments or philosophical differences which preclude forming one. It's fine if you're just out to form a better than average not-really-a-team to get rolled by an actual team, but not terrific for trying to start an actual team.
Nothing is perfect.
On the other hand it is a resource, and resources reward those who take the initiative.
There are usually at least 200+ in the channel, not everyone is from a fleet or philosophically opposed to each other.
It shouldn't be too hard to find at least 2 other players who play in a given time zone around the same time to make friends with.
There are also these forums.
If this thread is any indication, you're certainly not the only player who struggles with the "no team in a team game" issue.
So again, it comes down to initiative.
Perhaps some motivated 'freelance' type could start up a list of potential PUGmade players organized into their respective playtimes.
Maybe it could be involved with the bootcamp grads, or maybe it could be completely separate.
No rules, no fleet stuff, just a group to facilitate forming teams.
This is the reality of PvP.
It requires players to be more social than PvE, not less.
It requires players to have better builds, better playstyles and better tactics.
It requires players to have initiative, as unlike PvE it's not a rewards pinata just waiting to be whacked.
Perhaps some motivated 'freelance' type could start up a list of potential PUGmade players organized into their respective playtimes.
This is the reality of PvP.
It requires players to be more social than PvE, not less.
It requires players to have better builds, better playstyles and better tactics.
It requires players to have initiative, as unlike PvE it's not a rewards pinata just waiting to be whacked.
This.
I have come to really enjoy PvP for these very reasons.. While I am not a fan of being Pug Stomped, it happens... sometimes multiple times.
To combat this, I 've started trying to get a regular group together, have made friends with othe r players that I felt I worked well with, or we complimented eachothers role... I still get spanked... and sometimes I spank... more often its a decent match.
I will add though, that while I watch and monitor oPvP whenever I am on, I do see teams building on occassion (easy to get lost in the mix)... what I don't see very often are teams looking for a fight. More often its team up and head to the queues, to basically do the stomping that so many have complained about here.
and if you want even faster stfs you join opvp lol
Wishful thinking bud.
Most interested PvPers have ended up joining a small handful of very successful DPS/speed run focused PvE channels.
It's also not the channel with suffocating rules run by mods who've let their own egos slowly deteriorate the usefulness of the channel.
Most of the DPS focused PvErs are all min/maxer types, I keep trying to encourage more of them to join PvP because that initial min/max mindset is usually a good starting point for PvP ship building.
It shouldn't be too hard to find at least 2 other players who play in a given time zone around the same time to make friends with.
Two, sure. Finding two is trivial. The issue is that the difficulty rises exponentially as the number of players required increases.
You need 5. No more, no less. And it is not enough to merely have this 5. You must also drill to function as a team. A basic figure puts effective training at around 20-40 hours a week. So now you need a team of 5 troopers with synchronized schedules who can put in 20-40 hours a week, probably on a weekend, to drill to function as an integrated unit, and that's just for a casual unit. This is, after all, a game here, not the Army. This may not be enough: The opposition can get pretty mean out there, from what I hear.
No rules, no fleet stuff, just a group to facilitate forming teams.
I'm not sure how you'd run this without rules. You'd clearly need some: Who's in command? When is drill? And so on, soforth. Anything else and you have a haphazard rabble, exactly the kind of disorderly business that gets you slaughtered on the field.
It requires players to be more social than PvE, not less.
It requires players to have better builds, better playstyles and better tactics.
It requires players to have initiative, as unlike PvE it's not a rewards pinata just waiting to be whacked.
Indeed. It requires a significant amount of organization and patience to even get started. I have seen what it takes. I myself am still waiting. But many will not have this patience, as this thread shows.
And that's part of the problem: There's not much of a middle ground between the full-on 5-man premade unit and you getting curbstomped by said unit. And if you're not going to win, you may as well just show up in your Miranda so you can get it over with quickly, the outcome will be the same, as aside from participation credit, there is only one other thing that matters: Victory.
And so I Kerrat: It is an ad-hoc format without teams or hard rules, in which a lone player or a small group of friends can achieve results without the hard binary of winning or losing that makes anything other than going in loaded for bear a waste of time.
We need more Kerrats: A place where people can PvP in a loose format with both global and personal goals to pursue, that even those who are not aiming to be hardcore PvPers can get involved in and taste some action.
To combat this, I 've started trying to get a regular group together, have made friends with othe r players that I felt I worked well with, or we complimented eachothers role... I still get spanked... and sometimes I spank... more often its a decent match.
You need 5. No more, no less. And it is not enough to merely have this 5. You must also drill to function as a team. A basic figure puts effective training at around 20-40 hours a week. So now you need a team of 5 troopers with synchronized schedules who can put in 20-40 hours a week, probably on a weekend, to drill to function as an integrated unit, and that's just for a casual unit.
You know, I would say that most of the times you run into a "premade" in the queues its usually whoever happend to be on TS/Vent/online at the time and felt like x'ing up to pewpew.
It's really that simple.
Yeah, if you want to be in a tournament and perform well or you want to do some 5v5 premade style matches - expect the level of character/ship/team building and regular play with the same handful of players.
For hopping into arena and getting some daily matches going for fun?
You don't need all that.
I can't tell you right now there is no way I "train" in this game for 20 to 40 hours a week, lol (half the time I'm yapping into fleet channel or TS about things unrelated to STO).
I'm not sure how you'd run this without rules. You'd clearly need some: Who's in command? When is drill? And so on, soforth. Anything else and you have a haphazard rabble, exactly the kind of disorderly business that gets you slaughtered on the field.
I think the problem is your approach, you're over-analyzing all of this for what I think you want to do (not that analysis is a bad thing).
Get a few players together, try and get some complimentary builds going, have someone who can call targets - work as team, win some, lose some, improve.
Use one of the TS servers, like bootcamp, that other players are basically offering for free usage.
The resources are there, but there is a point where you just need to leap and take the initiative or you will just endlessly paralyze yourself to inaction through worrying about too many of the finer details.
I really did. Then the folks who came back to the game via LoR who used to pvp have decided to stop pvp'ing because its nothing more than a massive bad joke.
Just had TEN arena matches in a row... TEN. The pugs i was in faced off against teams with healers, teams with bug ships, teams with healers AND bug ships. All the way through those ten matches about half of the folks said that was their last pvp match, as far as they are concerned cryptic can remove pvp entirely.
...and now im one of them. There is no point to joining those arena queues anymore. No point at all. The fresh blood which came in with LoR has mostly been scared away with premades, instawin lockbox ships and spam.
Ohhhhh...and please spare me the rhetoric of "well folks should make their own premades with friends!" or "folks should join the opvp channel"
Most of the folks in those pug matches i came across was fleetless casual players which is this games LIFE BLOOD. Scare of that type of gamer from PVP and you'll kill off any chance of new folks getting into the arenas.
As for the OPVP channel... yeah join it, ya get good build tips there at least.
Well done premades, p2w console and lockbox kiddies, way to go to start the process of driving that final big effing nail into the coffin on PVP. I played my last arena/cnh match today, im never going back in.
Cryptic, just remove pvp and get it over with.
You just allowed cryptic to win by giving up. You don't think this was their plan all along? How long since a new PVP map was introduced? 3.5 years? And PvP isn't as big as it could have been because of all their neglect? Cryptic doesn't seem to realize that helping PvE'ers doesn't help PvP, but helping PvP'ers does help PvE... unless you are one of those that want to kill a tac cube in 1 shot, then of course, helping PvP doesn't help PvE.. but really how realistic is that anyway?
They were counting on you to give up, and you didn't let them down.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
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Hey, that's great. We need more fleets with a PvP team. You're welcome to hop in with our team one evening if you'd like so you can get a little taste of it. If you send me a mail to @DevolvedOne I could set you up with our TeamSpeak info.
@DevolvedOne
I hope kerrat gets fixed for more even sides and/or we get a new warzone, it will get more people pvp experience so hopefully the queues won't only be filled with newbies.
This makes me a little less inclined to listen to his words, to be honest.
I notice when I queue up with our fleet is to many times its just a slaughter and we are more competing with each other to get kills first then worrying about beating other team, thats a given. So many times I just end up pugging hoping to be on team of newbs for more challenge, or have to end up jumping on my Fed for FvK.
Yeah that is him, and its not really a zombie build, he just relies on RSP with doffs and was easy to trick him into wasting it by shooting at him unbuffed then using APA right after RSP runs out then boom. Zombie builds should rely more on keeping shield resists high and healed.
If anyone has seen me in Kerrat they will see that 99% of the time i just run straight out of the spawn zone, I am in kerrat to do only one thing... farm. The only time i do stay in the fed ball is when i cant full impulse out of it and im stuck there... so i just hit space bar and start shooting.
Yeah its not a zombie build, its a partial zombie build. The reason that Excelsior is stacked towards being a tank and not the usual excelsior build of being damage is simple. I'm partially blind.
Before LoR when I heard a decloak sound i reacted immediately and this was when the excelsior was running 2x TT and 2x EPTS. Post LoR when i heard a decloak sound half the time it was a rom on the fed side and i had just wasted my buffs. I switched to A2B with the RSP doff for bigger punch while keeping the tank side of the ship.
I now rely on a bop or a rom tractoring me FIRST before i hit off the heals because half the time i cant SEE the damn ship. I've learned to live with my disability when playing games. Most of the folks don't even realize they are attacking a ship whos controller has only 70% vision due to Fuchs Dystrophy. Some players on the KDF side however have probably realized a long time ago that my reaction time is way down from other players and CONTINUOUSLY attack me in kerrat over and over again... and nine times out of ten fail miserably...against a partially sighted player, so your damn right I will call them out for continuously harassing me.. and failing miserably, against a semi blind player.
Moot point anyway, i'll be getting my EC's by other means instead of having to go through the torture of Kerrat every damn day, kerrat farming is as mind numbing as Risa.
This is the whole crux of the subject, its easy for folks like timezarg to call people out without knowing the full truth behind certain aspects of what pisses me off about PVP. My disability has nothing to do with it, that only affects the cloaking enemies and thats the reason i went with a semi tank build on the excelsior, so it can take that hammering for a few seconds while i see if i can find the dang ship on my screen.
What pisses me off about PVP is the UNKILLABLE ships... the jem bugs, which tank better than a lot of oddys ive seen. The Tholian Recluse, which is practically unkillable and is used as a very effective healer. It got to the stage that when i seen a Jem Bug on the opposite side i knew my team was going to lose. Why should I have to put up with that, after paying Cryptic money to get all 3 variants of the Excelsior, after putting in time and effort to make that old ship a heavy tank... only to have some lock box winner come right up behind me and take me down in mere seconds while my own weapons, and the weapons of 2 or 3 other people do absolutely NO DAMAGE at all to it?
Most of the time the pug queues are filled with folks like me. Folks who fly the "standard" federation cruisers and escorts. Its almost always the premades that have a mix of those tholian tanks and jem bugs.. and putting them up against standard cruiser and escorts is no match, no match at all.
guess steamrunners ,scimitars ,tvaros ,wells ,etc are fine.btw defiants and andorian ships deliver alot more damage than any bug.
please explain how is that unkillable thing.Last time I checked web mines can pop a fully buffed 70k hull recluse.Add some bleedthrough which now is at absurds levels .
I find that pugging PvP is far more interesting.
You never know what your team will be like, what strategies you will have to come up on the fly with minimal coordination with your team mates. Its just plain more fun for me.
I don't know how premades can stand to play like that, healboats heal the escorts, the escorts wait until the healer's subnuc for their spike, rinse and repeat. Sure, there's other steps players can and do add in there but the overall process is the same. Where's the fun in that?
Its space combat not synchronized swimming! Premade PvP is, ironically, more like raiding in WoW than anything else in STO.
So no thanks, I would rather not run in a nice premade, using vent or TS, to coordinate a more optimal strategy and be able to respond to changing condition faster. And all for what? To stomp a pug that never had a chance? Premades have a place, fighting other premades; otherwise you're just wasting your own time by simply going through the motions. How is that any fun?
The solution is as obvious as it is easy, install pug only queus. Heck, make them cross faction if there's a concerns of splitting off the playerbase too much.
Scenarios were myriad - hounds and fox (one running target and a time limit), 2-3 teams vs each other, 20 players all-vs-all, mixed classes or otherwise, different time limits, different zones connected up. Best of all, you could spectate.
I'm a huge fan of completely random teams. Cross-tactics can be coached in those two minutes, and sub-team adaptations can be made if your team gets someone illiterate.
I may someday PvP here with my fleet if I get invited but with the emphasis on PvP grinding and elitist premades I'm not seeking it out.
Yes, absolutely agreed!
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
And so while I attended bootcamp in full and am certainly very interested in taking a more active participatory role, I always find myself sidelined by the lack of a team and the crushing workload involved in the game itself, and mostly just dabble in Kerrat. Personally, I think we need more Kerrat-like things out there, as Kerrat essentially represents the only way a player new to the scene can get any practical PvP experience. Not to mention it would help to perpetuate the idea that we actually have a Fed vs. Kli war going on, the evidence of which is currently rather hard to find.
I prefer Ker'rat for PvPing as well, for two big reasons: One is the amount of TIME I have, and this is important in a hit-and-run BoP. Assuming the zone isn't chock-full of Feddies farming their hearts out and resetting the zone every 5 minutes (I've friggin seen it happen, it's REALLY annoying), you can be assured you have at least 10 minutes to stalk a target, wait for an opening, strike (hopefully killing), and then moving on to another target. The only way BoPs can really be effective is if they utilize their attack buffs, which take 1-2 minutes to fully cool down. A fast-paced arena match could be done before I get more than 2-3 decent decloak alphastrikes in. . .there's pressure to move faster, to keep cloaking/decloaking and making relatively half-assed runs to keep up the pressure on the enemy. I don't like that, not when I'm using a BoP.
The second reason is the fluid population. It's nice to see the tide turn and take part in the renewed offensive, and make the Feddies run to another zone. It's nice to have that aspect to things. . .if only the blasted zones were a little more balanced population-wise (rather than the usual 10 feds vs 3 KDF).
Derrick - Fed Eng
I've recently observed TRH doing that recently. . .it's not restricted to us 'evil Klingons'
That's what OrganizedPvP channel is really there for.
You want info on DOFFs, you go to DOFFJOBS / DOFFCALLS, and use the spreadsheet.
You want to run blazing fast STFs? You join one of the private channels of dedicated DPS machines.
You want to PvP with a team but don't have enough friends/fleetmates for it? You can set up or join teams in OPvP.
and if you want even faster stfs you join opvp lol
Nothing is perfect.
On the other hand it is a resource, and resources reward those who take the initiative.
There are usually at least 200+ in the channel, not everyone is from a fleet or philosophically opposed to each other.
It shouldn't be too hard to find at least 2 other players who play in a given time zone around the same time to make friends with.
There are also these forums.
If this thread is any indication, you're certainly not the only player who struggles with the "no team in a team game" issue.
So again, it comes down to initiative.
Perhaps some motivated 'freelance' type could start up a list of potential PUGmade players organized into their respective playtimes.
Maybe it could be involved with the bootcamp grads, or maybe it could be completely separate.
No rules, no fleet stuff, just a group to facilitate forming teams.
This is the reality of PvP.
It requires players to be more social than PvE, not less.
It requires players to have better builds, better playstyles and better tactics.
It requires players to have initiative, as unlike PvE it's not a rewards pinata just waiting to be whacked.
This.
I have come to really enjoy PvP for these very reasons.. While I am not a fan of being Pug Stomped, it happens... sometimes multiple times.
To combat this, I 've started trying to get a regular group together, have made friends with othe r players that I felt I worked well with, or we complimented eachothers role... I still get spanked... and sometimes I spank... more often its a decent match.
I will add though, that while I watch and monitor oPvP whenever I am on, I do see teams building on occassion (easy to get lost in the mix)... what I don't see very often are teams looking for a fight. More often its team up and head to the queues, to basically do the stomping that so many have complained about here.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Wishful thinking bud.
Most interested PvPers have ended up joining a small handful of very successful DPS/speed run focused PvE channels.
It's also not the channel with suffocating rules run by mods who've let their own egos slowly deteriorate the usefulness of the channel.
Most of the DPS focused PvErs are all min/maxer types, I keep trying to encourage more of them to join PvP because that initial min/max mindset is usually a good starting point for PvP ship building.
Two, sure. Finding two is trivial. The issue is that the difficulty rises exponentially as the number of players required increases.
You need 5. No more, no less. And it is not enough to merely have this 5. You must also drill to function as a team. A basic figure puts effective training at around 20-40 hours a week. So now you need a team of 5 troopers with synchronized schedules who can put in 20-40 hours a week, probably on a weekend, to drill to function as an integrated unit, and that's just for a casual unit. This is, after all, a game here, not the Army. This may not be enough: The opposition can get pretty mean out there, from what I hear.
I'm not sure how you'd run this without rules. You'd clearly need some: Who's in command? When is drill? And so on, soforth. Anything else and you have a haphazard rabble, exactly the kind of disorderly business that gets you slaughtered on the field.
Indeed. It requires a significant amount of organization and patience to even get started. I have seen what it takes. I myself am still waiting. But many will not have this patience, as this thread shows.
And that's part of the problem: There's not much of a middle ground between the full-on 5-man premade unit and you getting curbstomped by said unit. And if you're not going to win, you may as well just show up in your Miranda so you can get it over with quickly, the outcome will be the same, as aside from participation credit, there is only one other thing that matters: Victory.
And so I Kerrat: It is an ad-hoc format without teams or hard rules, in which a lone player or a small group of friends can achieve results without the hard binary of winning or losing that makes anything other than going in loaded for bear a waste of time.
We need more Kerrats: A place where people can PvP in a loose format with both global and personal goals to pursue, that even those who are not aiming to be hardcore PvPers can get involved in and taste some action.
And unlike PvE its an ignored and ostracized corner of the game by both players and devs. So I guess it depends on what you want.
Yet here we have a testimonial to the opposite!
You know, I would say that most of the times you run into a "premade" in the queues its usually whoever happend to be on TS/Vent/online at the time and felt like x'ing up to pewpew.
It's really that simple.
Yeah, if you want to be in a tournament and perform well or you want to do some 5v5 premade style matches - expect the level of character/ship/team building and regular play with the same handful of players.
For hopping into arena and getting some daily matches going for fun?
You don't need all that.
I can't tell you right now there is no way I "train" in this game for 20 to 40 hours a week, lol (half the time I'm yapping into fleet channel or TS about things unrelated to STO).
I think the problem is your approach, you're over-analyzing all of this for what I think you want to do (not that analysis is a bad thing).
Get a few players together, try and get some complimentary builds going, have someone who can call targets - work as team, win some, lose some, improve.
Use one of the TS servers, like bootcamp, that other players are basically offering for free usage.
The resources are there, but there is a point where you just need to leap and take the initiative or you will just endlessly paralyze yourself to inaction through worrying about too many of the finer details.
You just allowed cryptic to win by giving up. You don't think this was their plan all along? How long since a new PVP map was introduced? 3.5 years? And PvP isn't as big as it could have been because of all their neglect? Cryptic doesn't seem to realize that helping PvE'ers doesn't help PvP, but helping PvP'ers does help PvE... unless you are one of those that want to kill a tac cube in 1 shot, then of course, helping PvP doesn't help PvE.. but really how realistic is that anyway?
They were counting on you to give up, and you didn't let them down.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010