Sacrifice of Angels shows the Centaur taking part in the battle, and surviving, fighting Cardassian ships and Jem'Hadar ships.
And Sisko was taking the fight seriously when he was in a JHAS and the Centaur was chasing them. Watch the episode. He's not goofing around and neither is the Centaur. It's really the same situation that prompted the Lakota to get the T5 treatment in STO.
There's no wiggling your way around this. The Centaur is an onscreen example of a Miranda "variant" that kicked major butt in the Dominion War. It's the same evidence Cryptic devs used to buff the heck out of the Lakota and make a T5 Excelsior the bees knees in this game.
There are far more important targets to take care of as far as the Cardassians and Jem'Hadar are concerned. Just because it survived, just means that it had a good Captain or didn't get any aggro. Now if it took down a couple of Jem'Hadar ships without being destroyed in the process, then that would be another story. Ramming speed is usually an effective maneuver for most ships in defeating a superior opponent and doesn't warrant the ship being classified as more than it is.
Sisko was more concerned about completing his mission and not killing his friend so it is not possible that he could have used the standard methods of getting rid of nuisances that the JHAS can use. Namely destroying the ship. Effectively, Sisko was in a PvP match with his friend where he could not use any weapons. There is absolutely no evidence that shows that the Centaur is on equal footing as a JHAS.
Believe it or not, I agree with you on the Constitution (which was clearly eclipsed by the Excelsior in the Undiscovered Country) and double-agree on the NX (which was an inadequate rust-bucket even when it was new).
... but I have a soft spot in my heart for the Miranda, so I hope you'll forgive my enthusiasm whenever it comes up.
I don't expect to see a T5 Miranda. I won't cry any tears if the Devs were to say from on high "CBS says no," like what I've heard about the Constitution.
But the Miranda-class is my second-favorite ship in all of Trek, and I will fangasm over it at the slightest provocation.
Still... there is precedence for older ships to kick butt long, long after you'd think they'd reached their sell-by date. After all, I'm sure the Lakota has come up a half-dozen times in this thread by now at least. But when you consider all the factors involved in that incident... I think we can give late 23rd-century ship designs the benefit of the doubt here, right?
... I know, I know. The Excelsior's a special case, and its operational lifespan is legend in the setting. But who's to say that none of its contemporaries were able to bottle even a fraction of that lightning?
(Besides, you have the Kumari and D'kyr sitting pretty at T5, and they're both contemporaries of the old NX-class! ... but they also aren't Starfleet ships, so I won't belabor that point.)
Still, I'd like to reiterate that I neither expect, nor do I even intend to agitate all that hard for a T5 Miranda. Frankly, I'd rather see the effort put into the KDF... but when one of my favorites come up, I just can't help myself...
I believe most of us have some love for ships that don't belong in the game as Tier 5 ships. I would like the Voth ships, Enterprise-J, USS Dauntless, and some ships that should never belong in this game like the Vorlon ships from Babylon 5.
I don't personally care for a T5 NX, but the Fleet Exeter in Snoggymack22 sig is interesting.
I would love to see a do-it all T5 Mirada with an Exeter style skin option layed out like so....
TYPE Destroyer
HULL 36,000
SHLD MOD 1.0
WPNS 4/4 can equip dual cannons
CREW 250
BOFF STATIONS TRIBBLE TRIBBLE TRIBBLE XX or XX on Fleet
DEVICES 3
CONSOLES TRIBBLE TRIBBLE or XXXX on Fleet TRIBBLE
TURN 10.5
IMPULSE MOD 0.15
INERTIA 25
BONUS POWER
+10 Shields
+10 Auxillary
SPECIAL CONSOLE Genesis torpedo :P jk
need something nice but not OP though I would imagine this ship would be used more for RP and PVE that anything else.
The idea is literally a combination on the starting light cruiser, a MU Vo'Quv carrier's stations, and a Vor'cha/Chel Gret love child :P. A ship that can do just about anything well but acts as a workhorse cruiser that can go out rescue the colonists and make it back fighting battles along the way if necessary but not actively competing with other traditional classes and it seems more like what we saw it used for, as a stop-gap ship until the big boys could get there but able to take care of itself in the meantime.
Is it possible I think so, likely to be built who knows but I imagine there are a lot of "Wrath of Khan" fans out there that might be willing to drop some coin on a ship that brings back memories.
Imagine the classic Miranda vs classic K'tinga D7 battles you could have
BTW where is my T'liss skin for the T'varo retrofit come on gimme
Sacrifice of Angels shows the Centaur taking part in the battle, and surviving, fighting Cardassian ships and Jem'Hadar ships.
And Sisko was taking the fight seriously when he was in a JHAS and the Centaur was chasing them. Watch the episode. He's not goofing around and neither is the Centaur. It's really the same situation that prompted the Lakota to get the T5 treatment in STO.
There's no wiggling your way around this. The Centaur is an onscreen example of a Miranda "variant" that kicked major butt in the Dominion War. It's the same evidence Cryptic devs used to buff the heck out of the Lakota and make a T5 Excelsior the bees knees in this game.
As I've said before, the Centaur is not a Miranda variant, although they use the same parts. It's not an Excelsior variant either.
It's a kitbash (like the Yaegar class). Kitbashes, although they share the same parts as their ancestors, do not necessarily share the same capabilities, technologies and strengths as the ships that they came from. Mostly, it's just the VFX people rushing to get a battle scene done as soon as possible, and thus cut corners by rearranging parts from an AMT/ERTL kit to make it appear like a brand new ship, or a ship that looks familiar.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
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As I've said before, the Centaur is not a Miranda variant,
Yes, unfortunately it is. In STO. That's how Cryptic set this whole enchilada up. Here.
From the wiki:
The Centaur class is based on the Excelsior class, built in the 2370s from salvaged components in response to the Dominion threat. It has a main saucer section with two aft nacelles at the end of its down-swept pylons. Out of the three sub-types for the Light Cruiser, it is arguably the one that mostly resembles a Cruiser style ship.
So here's the problem.
The Lakota is Tier 5 with a fleet variant.
The JHAS is one of the best ships in the game as a lockbox reward.
And the Centaur? Just a skin for the starter ship.
Even if I concede that Sisko didn't fight to his full potential in that episode, it still doesn't make the disparity in-game logical.
The Centaur was seen in Sacrifice of Angels doing well. It also did force Sisko to turn and run. It's not a T1 TICKLEBOAT. It certainly can get the same treatment the Lakota got. For much the same reason the Lakota got it. If you know, on screen evidence of doing well in Deep Space Nine is the reason the Lakota is so powerful.
If of course the reason the Lakota is what it is, happens to be Development Team fanboy bias, then yeah, ok the JHAS and Lakota dominate end-game and the Centaur is just a T1 skin.
Lame. But that's the only real explanation for that nonsense.
If the Lakota is so powerful because it got used in the Dominion War, then the Centaur certainly can get the exact same treatment and be a T5 fleet variant of that cruiser. I mean, there's already precedent for doing so with the Romulans and Klingons having T1 fleet variants anyways.
It's time to chill the hell out. And see the Centaur for what it is. A kit bash? So what. It's a ship ALREADY IN GAME. And it has on screen evidence of doing well in the Dominion War, which is the measuring stick that someone (GEKO) seems to use for ship power.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with people asking for a T5 Centaur or by virtue of how fleet ships work, a T5 Miranda and its variants.
It is true that, with all its modifications, the saucer is indeed hardly recognizable as one of the Excelsior. Considering that there is a Miranda bridge and a complete Miranda rollbar, even with the phaser cannons, these components may have actually been taken from this class. The nacelles (of the real, 1/1 scale ship) may not be the same as on the Excelsior anyway, although they have similar overall proportions.
The JHAS is one of the best ships in the game as a lockbox reward.
And the Centaur? Just a skin for the starter ship.
Even if I concede that Sisko didn't fight to his full potential in that episode, it still doesn't make the disparity in-game logical.
The Centaur was seen in Sacrifice of Angels doing well. It also did force Sisko to turn and run. It's not a T1 TICKLEBOAT. It certainly can get the same treatment the Lakota got. For much the same reason the Lakota got it. If you know, on screen evidence of doing well in Deep Space Nine is the reason the Lakota is so powerful.
If of course the reason the Lakota is what it is, happens to be Development Team fanboy bias, then yeah, ok the JHAS and Lakota dominate end-game and the Centaur is just a T1 skin.
Lame. But that's the only real explanation for that nonsense.
If the Lakota is so powerful because it got used in the Dominion War, then the Centaur certainly can get the exact same treatment and be a T5 fleet variant of that cruiser. I mean, there's already precedent for doing so with the Romulans and Klingons having T1 fleet variants anyways.
I have no problem with the Centaur being a T5 starship. We've seen what it can do, and how on-par it is with comparable ships of its size. Note that in the original post, the Centaur is not on that list. I support it.
All I was saying, is that the starship is not a variant, since the components that comprise the Centaur are not of similar proportions, indicating a whole new kind of vessel. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm just saying that's what it is.
It's time to chill the hell out. And see the Centaur for what it is. A kit bash? So what. It's a ship ALREADY IN GAME. And it has on screen evidence of doing well in the Dominion War, which is the measuring stick that someone (GEKO) seems to use for ship power.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with people asking for a T5 Centaur or by virtue of how fleet ships work, a T5 Miranda and its variants.
And again, I didn't specify a T5 Centaur on the "no T5 Ship" list. I am all for a T5 Centaur. However, I insist that the status quo of non-T5-Mirandas is kept. Mirandas were blown up left and right in the Dominion War. There is no reason why this ship can be a high level starship, and it is foolish to believe that with a track record that bad, these ships can still be on-par with much newer, architecturally advanced starships of comparable size.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
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In this game, where you know these forums reside, it's a Miranda variant. So ... it's like saying you have no problem with a T5 Lakota, but would flip a gasket if someone flew the Enterprise B skin at T5. Even though, people currently fly the Ent-B skin at T5.
In this game, where you know these forums reside, it's a Miranda variant. So ... it's like saying you have no problem with a T5 Lakota, but would flip a gasket if someone flew the Enterprise B skin at T5. Even though, people currently fly the Ent-B skin at T5.
The Lakota and Enterprise-B refit configurations are exactly the same. The hull fins, extra engines, nacelle additions, colouring is exactly the same between the Enterprise-B and the Lakota. So, I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to.
The Miranda-class and Centaur-type are quite different, and the analysis by Bernt Schneider at Ex Astris examines the difference in detail. They are two completely different ships. If you choose to have the "nacelle pylons" as the same ones from the Miranda-class, then the Excelsior saucer isn't from the Excelsior (too small). If you choose to take the Excelsior saucer, then the nacelle pylons are too big and don't originate from the Miranda. Either way, the ship is a completely different class of starship, and is NOT a variant of either.
I have no quarrel with a Centaur-type vessel at T5, since it has a proven history of being of similar capabilities as the JHAS, etc. I do oppose the Miranda as a T5 vessel, since it has been consistently proven to be cannon fodder.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
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Yeah as much as I like the Reliant and the Saratoga, I think I'll take the Enterprise-E, Enterprise-D, Enterprise-F, and the Defiant.... OH! and even the Sabre-class over the Ambassador, Excelsior and Miranda ships.
Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
Yeah as much as I like the Reliant and the Saratoga, I think I'll take the Enterprise-E, Enterprise-D, Enterprise-F, and the Defiant.... OH! and even the Sabre-class over the Ambassador, Excelsior and Miranda ships.
Disagree on Ambassador. she's still a good ship, under rated.
There is no way that immense modifications to a Miranda, NX, or Constitution would make them as powerful as a Sovereign, Prometheus, or Vesta. To match those ships up to current Tier 5 ships would require late 25th or early 26th Century technology.
Presumably, we're talking about the same modifications that take the B'rel from being a T1 ship or basic carrier pet to being a T5 fleet vessel . Logically you're correct, but STO has well and truly jumped that particular shark.
I repeat from the Z-store: the STO NX-class is a 25th century ship built to look like a 22nd century one, purely because it looks cool. IIRC this is also the reason for the Somraw raptor (some of the early STO background talked about "taking inspiration from the history of the empire" to explain the re-emergence of the Raptor class).
So, we have a 25th century ship of approximately the same size and configuration as a patrol escort. Exactly why, then, should this not be a T5 ship?
all arguments except the one about CBS saying no are piles of tribble carcasses.
Any "Canon" element this game every had, is gone. while I'd never fly a t5 constitution or NX, why should that stop others who would. there is no bearing anymore on whether it would work or not. any and all arguments about internals and "upgrades' and the Hulls is utter BS and a waste of time.
If the Exeter is a design cryptic made, I see no reason not to have a fleet variant of it, Minus all Constitution parts.
and the meridan, I believe it was called, for the miranda.
there are ways around the ban, but Cryptic as usual, is not listening to us and would prefer to break more junk in-game.
I suspect they are going to attempt to use a t5 Constitution/miranda to bring back the hordes who leave when arc is made mandatory.
there is no reason in game, or mechanics wise, these vessels cannot be T5, its just CBS has said no, which maybe will be a yes soon.
I've said it once, and I'll say it again, I'd rather see hordes of Constitutions and Mirandas then Jem bugs, tholian carriers, galors and Romulans around esd.
I repeat from the Z-store: the STO NX-class is a 25th century ship built to look like a 22nd century one, purely because it looks cool. IIRC this is also the reason for the Somraw raptor (some of the early STO background talked about "taking inspiration from the history of the empire" to explain the re-emergence of the Raptor class).
So, we have a 25th century ship of approximately the same size and configuration as a patrol escort. Exactly why, then, should this not be a T5 ship?
Take the Wright Brothers plane design and use the newest materials, jet engine, whatever you need. Now, race it against the Concorde.
Same thing. The design of the ship is just too old. Too old!
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
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thats totally fallacious.
comparing experimental wooden aircraft from a time when engineering concepts of even petrol engines where essentially unknown and compating them to what is described as a newly built starship with a hull that has a superficial resemblance to the older nx ship is nothing but pure strawman.
not to mention completely discards the use of any Klingon bop hull template.
I don't see a difference. We're comparing the NX Replica as if it was on par with other T5 vessels. It's similar to having a Wright Brothers plane at a similar technological level as an F-22, which as we can all guess, is an unrealistic expectation that the replica should perform on par with an architecturally advanced design.
Not strawman, it's a perfectly relevant metaphor for the stupidity of these arguments. An NX-class on par with a Defiant is a very big stretch.
As for the KDF, we can't change that. All we can do is work to "keep the flood at bay".
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
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I don't see a difference. We're comparing the NX Replica as if it was on par with other T5 vessels. It's similar to having a Wright Brothers plane at a similar technological level as an F-22, which as we can all guess, is an unrealistic expectation that the replica should perform on par with an architecturally advanced design.
Not strawman, it's a perfectly relevant metaphor for the stupidity of these arguments. An NX-class on par with a Defiant is a very big stretch.
As for the KDF, we can't change that. All we can do is work to "keep the flood at bay".
Your argument is really meaningless. You're not comparing wood plane to metal plane here. You're comparing encased space ship to encase space ship.
The NX in the game is all 25th century design and 225 meters long at T1. The Nova is all 25th century design and 221 meters long at Fleet T5.5. Forget about what it looks like. Technologically it's the same basic size of the Rhode Island - meaning it has as much room for weapons, engines, shield generators, etc as the Rhode Island and it's made out of the same modern materials.
The NX is an escort in the game. The Defiant is an escort in the game. The Defiant is 120 meters long at Fleet T5.5 - and we can assume the T5.5 version is all 25th century design. NX has the same modern technology and is bigger then the counterpart Defiant escort.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Given the large number of customization options for some ships, why not make your own 'Miranda', 'Constitution' or 'NX'?
For example, if you use the Akira hull option with the Armitage saucer, struts and nacelles, you end up with something that's pretty much a 25th century Miranda...
I don't see a difference. We're comparing the NX Replica as if it was on par with other T5 vessels. It's similar to having a Wright Brothers plane at a similar technological level as an F-22, which as we can all guess, is an unrealistic expectation that the replica should perform on par with an architecturally advanced design.
Not strawman, it's a perfectly relevant metaphor for the stupidity of these arguments. An NX-class on par with a Defiant is a very big stretch.
As for the KDF, we can't change that. All we can do is work to "keep the flood at bay".
Sorry, but no.
NX class and Sovereign class.
You know what they both have in common?
They are both warp-capable starships that are powered by matter-antimatter reactors that both operate on exactly the same basic principles.
Comparing the Wright brothers plane with an F-22 is like comparing one of our space shuttles with a warp-capable starship.
Take the Being 747.
The first one was built and flew in 1969.
42 years later, Boeing 747's are STILL being produced, and while improvements have been made over the decades to each new generation, they are STILL completely recognizable as a Boeing 747, and are constructed out of modern materials.
Past generations of 747's have also been retrofitted with modern Avionics and are still in active service today.
Now you may argue that the 747 is a civilian aircraft, but for that I will mention the Lockheed C-130 Hercules.
First flew in 1954 and are still actively used today... in combat, almost 60 years later.
The thing is, the hull/fuselage of any craft is just a FRAMEWORK, nothing more.
Its the guts that change radically over the course of history, and ultimately the guts of the craft that matters the most.
NX class and Sovereign class.
You know what they both have in common?
They are both warp-capable starships that are powered by matter-antimatter reactors that both operate on exactly the same basic principles.
Comparing the Wright brothers plane with an F-22 is like comparing one of our space shuttles with a warp-capable starship.
Take the Being 747.
The first one was built and flew in 1969.
42 years later, Boeing 747's are STILL being produced, and while improvements have been made over the decades to each new generation, they are STILL completely recognizable as a Boeing 747, and are constructed out of modern materials.
Past generations of 747's have also been retrofitted with modern Avionics and are still in active service today.
Now you may argue that the 747 is a civilian aircraft, but for that I will mention the Lockheed C-130 Hercules.
First flew in 1954 and are still actively used today... in combat, almost 60 years later.
The thing is, the hull/fuselage of any craft is just a FRAMEWORK, nothing more.
Its the guts that change radically over the course of history, and ultimately the guts of the craft that matters the most.
Valid points but again Starfleet is an inovative group and while the KDF is happy with the Brel and K'Tinga designs starfleet is always trying new things and as far as Starfleet is concerned, the Connie is too old of a design for active service, same for the NX, while the miranda and Excel have proven adaptable they are near the end of their useful lifespan and end up in the reserve fleet. if it was for the current conflicts and them needing just ships as place holders you would see the Miranda and the Excel phased out.
As for Miranda-class and its subtypes, the ship is far too old to be actually useful. It was used as cannon fodder in the Dominion War. It was consistently damaged or playing a very minor role in fleets in The Next Generation. Even in The Wrath of Khan, where it debuted, it took significant damage from one phaser shot from a damaged Enterprise. Another phaser shot forced its retreat further into the nebula, and one final phaser shot crippled the ship and caused Khan to detonate the Genesis Device.
If a T5 version was made, I'd expect it to suck anyways - 2/2 weapon slots, and limited consoles. I continue to be baffled at why people insist that a 150-year old starship "should" be competitive with the Odyssey-class, or even the Galaxy-class.
1st: Kirk use the pre-fix code to drop Reliants shields not many ships without shields will last against phaser fire or a torpedo hit which is what made Khan detonate the Genesis Device plus his crew was dead. If Khan was a smart as he claimed he was he would have let his crew get used to the Miranda's systems and maybe Kirk would not have gotten the upper hand and damaged her to the point where Khan needed to detonate the Genesis Device and Enterprise would not have had a chance the fact that Kirk did not go by star fleet protocol is what got Enterprise in the heap of trouble in the first place had he raised shields when Savik had said then it would have been a knock out drag out fight to the death where Enterprise should have won it anyways for the fact that she was more powerful being a bigger ship even though Reliant was faster being a smaller ship, guess we will never know the truth of that though.
2nd: Most T5 ships have extra weapons slots i.e Cruisers 4/4/ Normal Escorts 4/3 Sci ships 3/3, also they get more consoles slots depending on the class.
so before you go and try to make a case why not to have these ships in game besides there age make sure you do your homework first.
I have given a look at many of the arguments, and there are many valid points on both sides. Someone with a super build elite grind constructed largest ship in the game on sale now for 2500 zen, ship...wouldnt want to be beaten by a little NX class with a similar super build (ego thing! ..add in a Francis rant) On the other hand, you have a lot of fans from many shows who come here (instead of cryptics competitors) that want to play out the star trek universe in their favorite era and theme, this games engine is better then any other Star trek video game they ever made, and well rounded and capable to suit everyone's needs. The questions is will it be worth the time and resources to make it happen?
If they will release the superships, like the scimitar...give us the RP ships too! Lets be fair to everyone concerned! I would have been willing to accept a tier 3 Constitution and NX class, but after all the ranting about not having em...im fully in favor of having them fleet level! Its no more out of the ordinary then allowing all those other odd ships in the game!
In the movie "Of Gods and Men" they mentioned that just because they used the old ships design, didnt mean they didnt upgrade thier technolgy...they had a super weapon that destroyed vulcan with one torp. the only outter design difference is the extra modification to the lower hull for the super weapon. So yes the TOS cruiser could take down the enterprise E given the technolgy was enhanced to fit...a little defiant class has super firepower and a strong hull for heavy battles.
I have given a look at many of the arguments, and there are many valid points on both sides. Someone with a super build elite grind constructed largest ship in the game on sale now for 2500 zen, ship...wouldnt want to be beaten by a little NX class with a similar super build (ego thing! ..add in a Francis rant) On the other hand, you have a lot of fans from many shows who come here (instead of cryptics competitors) that want to play out the star trek universe in their favorite era and theme, this games engine is better then any other Star trek video game they ever made, and well rounded and capable to suit everyone's needs. The questions is will it be worth the time and resources to make it happen?
I don't PVP at all, I don't want it simply because the game is already getting past ridiculous with the ships we have now. I'm getting tired of seeing it get worse and worse. I'd be just as much against seeing TNG/DS9/VOY ships if this were a TOS or ENT based game.
So your premise that anyone against it just doesn't want to lose to an older ship is misguided at best.
In the movie "Of Gods and Men" they mentioned that just because they used the old ships design, didnt mean they didnt upgrade thier technolgy...they had a super weapon that destroyed vulcan with one torp. the only outter design difference is the extra modification to the lower hull for the super weapon. So yes the TOS cruiser could take down the enterprise E given the technolgy was enhanced to fit...a little defiant class has super firepower and a strong hull for heavy battles.
Of Gods and Men may have some Trek stars in it, but it is 100% fanfic that has no bearing on this game, or the movies/shows in any way what so ever.
I'd also like to point out, just as a reference here, the recent poll in the State of the Game. For everyone that keeps going on and on about how popular TOS is, and how there are so many fans that would snap anything TOS up....TOS is dead last. By quite a fair margin.
I don't PVP at all, I don't want it simply because the game is already getting past ridiculous with the ships we have now. I'm getting tired of seeing it get worse and worse. I'd be just as much against seeing TNG/DS9/VOY ships if this were a TOS or ENT based game.
So your premise that anyone against it just doesn't want to lose to an older ship is misguided at best.
Of Gods and Men may have some Trek stars in it, but it is 100% fanfic that has no bearing on this game, or the movies/shows in any way what so ever.
I'd also like to point out, just as a reference here, the recent poll in the State of the Game. For everyone that keeps going on and on about how popular TOS is, and how there are so many fans that would snap anything TOS up....TOS is dead last. By quite a fair margin.
Just food for thought.
I mentioned about players that are upset about being beaten by older ships as thier argument because that was a point of view from some of the naysayers. The game itself is best described as 100% fan fiction. None of it follows the old shows, its left for you to make up what you want to play it out as, so i see no problem with having the ship you want if you can afford it. Its like any leasure activity, sometimes you will find that guy who wants to play his vintage nintendo or atari consoles instead of the latests ones and gets laughed at for being lame...if it make thier game more enjoyable why not! and as for a Fleet TOS Cruiser and Miranda, the console ideas i have for them could be this....strait cruiser: (miracle worker console...tactical: point defense turret console...enhanced science: photonic ensign level boff power console. For the NX class: actual bridge pack for whole ship + made into an escort class.
this games engine is better then any other Star trek video game they ever made.
Then I'm going to assume you have not played many other Star Trek Video games, because STO's engine is pretty inferior and comes nowhere close to old titles like Klingon Academy and Bridge Commander.
Then I'm going to assume you have not played many other Star Trek Video games, because STO's engine is pretty inferior and comes nowhere close to old titles like Klingon Academy and Bridge Commander.
Klingon Academy had real people for thier cutscenes but the controls where awful, and felt more arcade style. Bridge commander was just as bad, your field of view was limited, the bridge view was cool where you could see and communicate with your officers, but you have to admit STO has expanded in ways that are far superior then those old single player games. There is much more detail in the over all game play and a working economy, you can make your own uniforms and do as you please, not having to follow any certain mission. Thats why I gave up console style gaming...MMOs never loose your progress you can always pick up where you left off.
Comments
There are far more important targets to take care of as far as the Cardassians and Jem'Hadar are concerned. Just because it survived, just means that it had a good Captain or didn't get any aggro. Now if it took down a couple of Jem'Hadar ships without being destroyed in the process, then that would be another story. Ramming speed is usually an effective maneuver for most ships in defeating a superior opponent and doesn't warrant the ship being classified as more than it is.
Sisko was more concerned about completing his mission and not killing his friend so it is not possible that he could have used the standard methods of getting rid of nuisances that the JHAS can use. Namely destroying the ship. Effectively, Sisko was in a PvP match with his friend where he could not use any weapons. There is absolutely no evidence that shows that the Centaur is on equal footing as a JHAS.
I believe most of us have some love for ships that don't belong in the game as Tier 5 ships. I would like the Voth ships, Enterprise-J, USS Dauntless, and some ships that should never belong in this game like the Vorlon ships from Babylon 5.
I would love to see a do-it all T5 Mirada with an Exeter style skin option layed out like so....
TYPE Destroyer
HULL 36,000
SHLD MOD 1.0
WPNS 4/4 can equip dual cannons
CREW 250
BOFF STATIONS
TRIBBLE
TRIBBLE
TRIBBLE
XX or XX on Fleet
DEVICES 3
CONSOLES
TRIBBLE
TRIBBLE or XXXX on Fleet
TRIBBLE
TURN 10.5
IMPULSE MOD 0.15
INERTIA 25
BONUS POWER
+10 Shields
+10 Auxillary
SPECIAL CONSOLE Genesis torpedo :P jk
need something nice but not OP though I would imagine this ship would be used more for RP and PVE that anything else.
The idea is literally a combination on the starting light cruiser, a MU Vo'Quv carrier's stations, and a Vor'cha/Chel Gret love child :P. A ship that can do just about anything well but acts as a workhorse cruiser that can go out rescue the colonists and make it back fighting battles along the way if necessary but not actively competing with other traditional classes and it seems more like what we saw it used for, as a stop-gap ship until the big boys could get there but able to take care of itself in the meantime.
Is it possible I think so, likely to be built who knows but I imagine there are a lot of "Wrath of Khan" fans out there that might be willing to drop some coin on a ship that brings back memories.
Imagine the classic Miranda vs classic K'tinga D7 battles you could have
BTW where is my T'liss skin for the T'varo retrofit come on gimme
Good Hunting all
As I've said before, the Centaur is not a Miranda variant, although they use the same parts. It's not an Excelsior variant either.
It's a kitbash (like the Yaegar class). Kitbashes, although they share the same parts as their ancestors, do not necessarily share the same capabilities, technologies and strengths as the ships that they came from. Mostly, it's just the VFX people rushing to get a battle scene done as soon as possible, and thus cut corners by rearranging parts from an AMT/ERTL kit to make it appear like a brand new ship, or a ship that looks familiar.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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Yes, unfortunately it is. In STO. That's how Cryptic set this whole enchilada up. Here.
From the wiki:
So here's the problem.
The Lakota is Tier 5 with a fleet variant.
The JHAS is one of the best ships in the game as a lockbox reward.
And the Centaur? Just a skin for the starter ship.
Even if I concede that Sisko didn't fight to his full potential in that episode, it still doesn't make the disparity in-game logical.
The Centaur was seen in Sacrifice of Angels doing well. It also did force Sisko to turn and run. It's not a T1 TICKLEBOAT. It certainly can get the same treatment the Lakota got. For much the same reason the Lakota got it. If you know, on screen evidence of doing well in Deep Space Nine is the reason the Lakota is so powerful.
If of course the reason the Lakota is what it is, happens to be Development Team fanboy bias, then yeah, ok the JHAS and Lakota dominate end-game and the Centaur is just a T1 skin.
Lame. But that's the only real explanation for that nonsense.
If the Lakota is so powerful because it got used in the Dominion War, then the Centaur certainly can get the exact same treatment and be a T5 fleet variant of that cruiser. I mean, there's already precedent for doing so with the Romulans and Klingons having T1 fleet variants anyways.
It's time to chill the hell out. And see the Centaur for what it is. A kit bash? So what. It's a ship ALREADY IN GAME. And it has on screen evidence of doing well in the Dominion War, which is the measuring stick that someone (GEKO) seems to use for ship power.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with people asking for a T5 Centaur or by virtue of how fleet ships work, a T5 Miranda and its variants.
http://ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/ds9tm.htm#centaur
It's a kitbash.
I have no problem with the Centaur being a T5 starship. We've seen what it can do, and how on-par it is with comparable ships of its size. Note that in the original post, the Centaur is not on that list. I support it.
All I was saying, is that the starship is not a variant, since the components that comprise the Centaur are not of similar proportions, indicating a whole new kind of vessel. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm just saying that's what it is.
And again, I didn't specify a T5 Centaur on the "no T5 Ship" list. I am all for a T5 Centaur. However, I insist that the status quo of non-T5-Mirandas is kept. Mirandas were blown up left and right in the Dominion War. There is no reason why this ship can be a high level starship, and it is foolish to believe that with a track record that bad, these ships can still be on-par with much newer, architecturally advanced starships of comparable size.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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In this game, where you know these forums reside, it's a Miranda variant. So ... it's like saying you have no problem with a T5 Lakota, but would flip a gasket if someone flew the Enterprise B skin at T5. Even though, people currently fly the Ent-B skin at T5.
The Lakota and Enterprise-B refit configurations are exactly the same. The hull fins, extra engines, nacelle additions, colouring is exactly the same between the Enterprise-B and the Lakota. So, I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to.
The Miranda-class and Centaur-type are quite different, and the analysis by Bernt Schneider at Ex Astris examines the difference in detail. They are two completely different ships. If you choose to have the "nacelle pylons" as the same ones from the Miranda-class, then the Excelsior saucer isn't from the Excelsior (too small). If you choose to take the Excelsior saucer, then the nacelle pylons are too big and don't originate from the Miranda. Either way, the ship is a completely different class of starship, and is NOT a variant of either.
I have no quarrel with a Centaur-type vessel at T5, since it has a proven history of being of similar capabilities as the JHAS, etc. I do oppose the Miranda as a T5 vessel, since it has been consistently proven to be cannon fodder.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
Disagree on Ambassador. she's still a good ship, under rated.
Presumably, we're talking about the same modifications that take the B'rel from being a T1 ship or basic carrier pet to being a T5 fleet vessel
I repeat from the Z-store: the STO NX-class is a 25th century ship built to look like a 22nd century one, purely because it looks cool. IIRC this is also the reason for the Somraw raptor (some of the early STO background talked about "taking inspiration from the history of the empire" to explain the re-emergence of the Raptor class).
So, we have a 25th century ship of approximately the same size and configuration as a patrol escort. Exactly why, then, should this not be a T5 ship?
Any "Canon" element this game every had, is gone. while I'd never fly a t5 constitution or NX, why should that stop others who would. there is no bearing anymore on whether it would work or not. any and all arguments about internals and "upgrades' and the Hulls is utter BS and a waste of time.
If the Exeter is a design cryptic made, I see no reason not to have a fleet variant of it, Minus all Constitution parts.
and the meridan, I believe it was called, for the miranda.
there are ways around the ban, but Cryptic as usual, is not listening to us and would prefer to break more junk in-game.
I suspect they are going to attempt to use a t5 Constitution/miranda to bring back the hordes who leave when arc is made mandatory.
there is no reason in game, or mechanics wise, these vessels cannot be T5, its just CBS has said no, which maybe will be a yes soon.
I've said it once, and I'll say it again, I'd rather see hordes of Constitutions and Mirandas then Jem bugs, tholian carriers, galors and Romulans around esd.
Take the Wright Brothers plane design and use the newest materials, jet engine, whatever you need. Now, race it against the Concorde.
Same thing. The design of the ship is just too old. Too old!
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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Oh it will be fine. Just put solar panels on and call it a green plane. It is innovative in that case.
I don't see a difference. We're comparing the NX Replica as if it was on par with other T5 vessels. It's similar to having a Wright Brothers plane at a similar technological level as an F-22, which as we can all guess, is an unrealistic expectation that the replica should perform on par with an architecturally advanced design.
Not strawman, it's a perfectly relevant metaphor for the stupidity of these arguments. An NX-class on par with a Defiant is a very big stretch.
As for the KDF, we can't change that. All we can do is work to "keep the flood at bay".
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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The NX in the game is all 25th century design and 225 meters long at T1. The Nova is all 25th century design and 221 meters long at Fleet T5.5. Forget about what it looks like. Technologically it's the same basic size of the Rhode Island - meaning it has as much room for weapons, engines, shield generators, etc as the Rhode Island and it's made out of the same modern materials.
The NX is an escort in the game. The Defiant is an escort in the game. The Defiant is 120 meters long at Fleet T5.5 - and we can assume the T5.5 version is all 25th century design. NX has the same modern technology and is bigger then the counterpart Defiant escort.
For example, if you use the Akira hull option with the Armitage saucer, struts and nacelles, you end up with something that's pretty much a 25th century Miranda...
Sorry, but no.
NX class and Sovereign class.
You know what they both have in common?
They are both warp-capable starships that are powered by matter-antimatter reactors that both operate on exactly the same basic principles.
Comparing the Wright brothers plane with an F-22 is like comparing one of our space shuttles with a warp-capable starship.
Take the Being 747.
The first one was built and flew in 1969.
42 years later, Boeing 747's are STILL being produced, and while improvements have been made over the decades to each new generation, they are STILL completely recognizable as a Boeing 747, and are constructed out of modern materials.
Past generations of 747's have also been retrofitted with modern Avionics and are still in active service today.
Now you may argue that the 747 is a civilian aircraft, but for that I will mention the Lockheed C-130 Hercules.
First flew in 1954 and are still actively used today... in combat, almost 60 years later.
The thing is, the hull/fuselage of any craft is just a FRAMEWORK, nothing more.
Its the guts that change radically over the course of history, and ultimately the guts of the craft that matters the most.
Valid points but again Starfleet is an inovative group and while the KDF is happy with the Brel and K'Tinga designs starfleet is always trying new things and as far as Starfleet is concerned, the Connie is too old of a design for active service, same for the NX, while the miranda and Excel have proven adaptable they are near the end of their useful lifespan and end up in the reserve fleet. if it was for the current conflicts and them needing just ships as place holders you would see the Miranda and the Excel phased out.
1st: Kirk use the pre-fix code to drop Reliants shields not many ships without shields will last against phaser fire or a torpedo hit which is what made Khan detonate the Genesis Device plus his crew was dead. If Khan was a smart as he claimed he was he would have let his crew get used to the Miranda's systems and maybe Kirk would not have gotten the upper hand and damaged her to the point where Khan needed to detonate the Genesis Device and Enterprise would not have had a chance the fact that Kirk did not go by star fleet protocol is what got Enterprise in the heap of trouble in the first place had he raised shields when Savik had said then it would have been a knock out drag out fight to the death where Enterprise should have won it anyways for the fact that she was more powerful being a bigger ship even though Reliant was faster being a smaller ship, guess we will never know the truth of that though.
2nd: Most T5 ships have extra weapons slots i.e Cruisers 4/4/ Normal Escorts 4/3 Sci ships 3/3, also they get more consoles slots depending on the class.
so before you go and try to make a case why not to have these ships in game besides there age make sure you do your homework first.
If they will release the superships, like the scimitar...give us the RP ships too! Lets be fair to everyone concerned! I would have been willing to accept a tier 3 Constitution and NX class, but after all the ranting about not having em...im fully in favor of having them fleet level! Its no more out of the ordinary then allowing all those other odd ships in the game!
In the movie "Of Gods and Men" they mentioned that just because they used the old ships design, didnt mean they didnt upgrade thier technolgy...they had a super weapon that destroyed vulcan with one torp. the only outter design difference is the extra modification to the lower hull for the super weapon. So yes the TOS cruiser could take down the enterprise E given the technolgy was enhanced to fit...a little defiant class has super firepower and a strong hull for heavy battles.
I don't PVP at all, I don't want it simply because the game is already getting past ridiculous with the ships we have now. I'm getting tired of seeing it get worse and worse. I'd be just as much against seeing TNG/DS9/VOY ships if this were a TOS or ENT based game.
So your premise that anyone against it just doesn't want to lose to an older ship is misguided at best.
Of Gods and Men may have some Trek stars in it, but it is 100% fanfic that has no bearing on this game, or the movies/shows in any way what so ever.
I'd also like to point out, just as a reference here, the recent poll in the State of the Game. For everyone that keeps going on and on about how popular TOS is, and how there are so many fans that would snap anything TOS up....TOS is dead last. By quite a fair margin.
Just food for thought.
Then I'm going to assume you have not played many other Star Trek Video games, because STO's engine is pretty inferior and comes nowhere close to old titles like Klingon Academy and Bridge Commander.
Klingon Academy had real people for thier cutscenes but the controls where awful, and felt more arcade style. Bridge commander was just as bad, your field of view was limited, the bridge view was cool where you could see and communicate with your officers, but you have to admit STO has expanded in ways that are far superior then those old single player games. There is much more detail in the over all game play and a working economy, you can make your own uniforms and do as you please, not having to follow any certain mission. Thats why I gave up console style gaming...MMOs never loose your progress you can always pick up where you left off.
7, 9 done
STO: ctr + alt + shift + F3 = F U
cause sometimes its party time!