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NO T5 Connie, T5 Miranda, T5 NX
stardestroyer001
Member Posts: 2,615 Arc User
I've seen a ton of threads being created and left to waste away. All of these threads are concerned about at least one of these ships which, according to the OPs, "should", "must", be in the game as a T5 variant.
Constitution-class
Constitution-refit
Miranda-class
Miranda-class (no rollbar)
Miranda-class (no rollbar, sensor pods)
Soyuz-class
Oberth-class
NX-class
NX-Refit
For the "TOS" Constitution-class: CBS banned it*. Which means, no matter how much you complain to the Devs, their hands are bound. Complain to CBS instead, you actually have a chance of succeeding there. That is, if you can actually navigate CBS's complaint page. Trust me, I've tried, they send you to nonexistent places.
*thanks Snoggy for clarification.
For the "TMP" Constitution-class: The ship is seriously underpowered compared to a Klingon Bird-of-Prey. No Constitution-class vessels were used in the Dominion War (the most recent source of battle footage). Thus, it's extremely hard to believe they can still be viable ships.
As for Miranda-class and its subtypes, the ship is far too old to be useful anymore. It was used as cannon fodder in the Dominion War. It was consistently damaged or playing a very minor role in fleets in The Next Generation. Even in The Wrath of Khan, where it debuted, it took significant damage from one phaser shot from a damaged Enterprise. Another phaser shot forced its retreat further into the nebula, and one final phaser shot crippled the ship, and forced Khan to self-destruct via the Genesis Device. 3 phaser shots took out a Miranda. Three!
If a T5 version was made, I'd expect it to suck anyways. 2/2 weapon slots, and limited consoles. I continue to be baffled at why people insist that a 150-year old starship "should" be competitive with the Odyssey-class, or even the Galaxy-class.
As for the NX-class, that ship is even older. The design is likely too old - the equivalent of the Wright brothers' plane. If you tried to strap jet engines, missiles, guidance to a Wright Bros plane which cannot handle the stress, it will fly apart. Same deal with the NX and strapping such powerful equipment that it simply wasn't designed to handle. Heck, the ship couldn't go much faster than warp 5.2 of the old TOS warp scale (equating to roughly warp 3 or 4 on the TNG warp scale).
As for the Oberth, I haven't seen too many threads about this ship. But honestly, the ship wasn't even seen in DS9 battle scenes (after First Contact), and only appeared in select episodes of TNG to represent very weak ships, or old ships from another era. Highly unlikely this ship can take any major damage.
Note: This thread used to contain the other ship hull options for the Constitution (namely Excalibur, Vesper, Exeter). These can be explained away as simply different ships, and thus I have removed them.
It's ridiculous how some people just throw away the age of these outdated ships and consistently post new, repetitive threads about why their favorite ship from the 60's and 70's should be on a competitive level with even the Galaxy-class in this game. It's quite silly, really.
Regarding this Thread: This thread is based on two points of concern, 1) numerous uninformed individuals consistently spam the forums with requests for lower tiered ships to be bumped up to T5, and 2) such ships have no place in the T5 category.
The basis of this thread is to argue against forum spamming and lower tiered/older ships being bumped up to T5. Posters should use canon or apocryphal sources, logical deduction, or official documentation from CBS, PWE, Paramount, etc.
Constitution-class
Constitution-refit
Miranda-class
Miranda-class (no rollbar)
Miranda-class (no rollbar, sensor pods)
Soyuz-class
Oberth-class
NX-class
NX-Refit
For the "TOS" Constitution-class: CBS banned it*. Which means, no matter how much you complain to the Devs, their hands are bound. Complain to CBS instead, you actually have a chance of succeeding there. That is, if you can actually navigate CBS's complaint page. Trust me, I've tried, they send you to nonexistent places.
*thanks Snoggy for clarification.
For the "TMP" Constitution-class: The ship is seriously underpowered compared to a Klingon Bird-of-Prey. No Constitution-class vessels were used in the Dominion War (the most recent source of battle footage). Thus, it's extremely hard to believe they can still be viable ships.
As for Miranda-class and its subtypes, the ship is far too old to be useful anymore. It was used as cannon fodder in the Dominion War. It was consistently damaged or playing a very minor role in fleets in The Next Generation. Even in The Wrath of Khan, where it debuted, it took significant damage from one phaser shot from a damaged Enterprise. Another phaser shot forced its retreat further into the nebula, and one final phaser shot crippled the ship, and forced Khan to self-destruct via the Genesis Device. 3 phaser shots took out a Miranda. Three!
If a T5 version was made, I'd expect it to suck anyways. 2/2 weapon slots, and limited consoles. I continue to be baffled at why people insist that a 150-year old starship "should" be competitive with the Odyssey-class, or even the Galaxy-class.
As for the NX-class, that ship is even older. The design is likely too old - the equivalent of the Wright brothers' plane. If you tried to strap jet engines, missiles, guidance to a Wright Bros plane which cannot handle the stress, it will fly apart. Same deal with the NX and strapping such powerful equipment that it simply wasn't designed to handle. Heck, the ship couldn't go much faster than warp 5.2 of the old TOS warp scale (equating to roughly warp 3 or 4 on the TNG warp scale).
As for the Oberth, I haven't seen too many threads about this ship. But honestly, the ship wasn't even seen in DS9 battle scenes (after First Contact), and only appeared in select episodes of TNG to represent very weak ships, or old ships from another era. Highly unlikely this ship can take any major damage.
Note: This thread used to contain the other ship hull options for the Constitution (namely Excalibur, Vesper, Exeter). These can be explained away as simply different ships, and thus I have removed them.
It's ridiculous how some people just throw away the age of these outdated ships and consistently post new, repetitive threads about why their favorite ship from the 60's and 70's should be on a competitive level with even the Galaxy-class in this game. It's quite silly, really.
Regarding this Thread: This thread is based on two points of concern, 1) numerous uninformed individuals consistently spam the forums with requests for lower tiered ships to be bumped up to T5, and 2) such ships have no place in the T5 category.
The basis of this thread is to argue against forum spamming and lower tiered/older ships being bumped up to T5. Posters should use canon or apocryphal sources, logical deduction, or official documentation from CBS, PWE, Paramount, etc.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Post edited by stardestroyer001 on
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This discussion has been closed.
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D'kyr class science vessel, T'varo light warbird, B'rel bird of prey and K't'inga battle cruiser take your point into crossfire. It's completely atomized.:eek:
Not mentioning that none of your points applies to the Excalibur.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Yeah, those are already in the game, and there's no point arguing against something that won't be removed. I'm just trying to knock sense into people who insist on the impossible/improbable likelihood of any of the ships I mentioned to be added as a T5 or fleet version.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
If a situation is bad you do not make it better by making it worse.
And then would complain that the Excelsior is of a higher tier then the Constitution...?
I couldn't of put it any better myself and I'm pretty creative!
I would get rid of tiers just like what another I play did and bring in classes.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
But all of those ships were added to the game after CBS supposedly "banned" old ships from being at the top tier.
Which BTW is not true and something the OP made up. CBS said no to the TOS Constitution being made a T5 ship. TWO YEARS AGO.
That's it. There's no ban as suggested in the OP. That's completely made up nonsense from people who seem to think this game follows some sort of ship hierarchy that it doesn't follow and never has followed.
Why is the Excelsior better than the Odyssey?
Okay, so they said no, It still means Cryptic cannot place that ship in the endgame ship list.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
As I pointed out in the other thread, STO and the movies/shows are completely different animals. Using their performance on-screen, to argue whether or not they should get an upgrade in stats, is ridiculous.
But I will address the shows for the hell of it.
We saw the Miranda variants about as frequently as we saw Excelsiors and Oberths in The Next Generation. That is, until the show really took off and production values got better. That's we we started seeing newer designs, like the Nebula, with increasing frequency.
And to be fair, in the Wrath of Khan, the Reliant took that level of damage because it was hit with multiple phaser and torpedo strikes, from a heavier class of vessel, while it's shields were offline. And on critical locations, to boot. Not many vessels can stand up to that. Not even the vaunted Galaxy class.
As for Deep Space Nine, the scenes where the Miranda took a pounding, is by no means an indicator of the class's overall performance in the war at large. Besides, lengthy battles in line with the technology of Star Trek doesn't make for good narrative flow in a character-drive television show. Quick kills and pretty explosions, on the other hand, adds flavor to such. The Mirandas that did die just got the short straw from the writers and FX people. Somebody has to be the "red shirt".
You can boost stats to allow it to be competitive in the game without going overboard. And the the age of the design is irrelevant,as far as the game goes.
And since you like to use what appears on screen as the basis of your arguments, allow me to point out that the Miranda, as it stands in-game, is seriously undergunned when compared to the Reliant in Star Trek II.
Read the C-Store and STO Wiki closer. The so-called "NX" in Star Trek Online is a replica. It's a fully modern light escort with a retro look. It's very much a 25th Century starship, technologically.
The Oberth wasn't built to fight. It was a pure science vessel. And the second part is largely incorrect. The Oberth was just one of three classics used in The Next Generation due to budgetary concerns, not out of a desire to show viewers antiques or crappy ships.
And the Oberth showed up in First Contact at the Battle of Sector 001. Two of them, in act. That would indicate that they were still in service at that late date.
So, there is no real reason to omit a higher tier Oberth, despite the on-screen "facts" regarding the vessel's place in the grander scheme of things, since science vessels are expected to be able to fight in STO. So, why not let the fans of the classics enjoy their Oberths at endgame? As with the Miranda, you can bump up the stats to keep it competitive, without making more advanced vessels irrelevant.
They said no two years ago to one specific ship, the TOS Constitution which was a special pre-order bonus ship.
They never said no to the T2 Cruiser. Just the TOS T1 pre-order bonus. There's no information on what type of licensing exists for the TOS ship, due to its odd nature and how it came to be in the game. But the interview that Abrams gave a few months ago suggests the licensing is a little wonky since he wanted his own toy lines and what not.
There's been no report on if that stance has been updated or changed. There's been hints that CBS is willing to revisit discussions. There's been hints that Abrams is done with trying to have complete control over the IP and that he's more than happy to move on to trying to do that with Star Wars instead. And there's been direct evidence that licensing is flexible as we've seen with the Romulan ships being all over the map IP-wise.
Also, there's definitely strong evidence that the age of the ship has nothing to do with its tier placement as these types of threads try to suggest as the reasoning for CBS saying no two years ago.
They just released a series of Romulan ships that defy any sort of age-based hierarchy. And the current state of end-game Federation cruisers is all over the map timeline wise. From the Cheyenne, to the Excelsior, to the Odyssey to the Imperial.
Age never was the issue. It's been hinted that licensing was. And the way things are going with Bad Robot, it seems licensing is about to get a lot more flexible in the next year or two.
So again, there is no ban.
This topic remains valid. The idea remains popular.
Oh and that only deals with the TOS Constitution.
And has absolutely NOTHING to do with the T5 Miranda fans. Who have a HUGE case to make, since the Centaur went toe to toe with a JHAS onscreen in DS9 and chased it off.
They could go the same route with the Miranda and the Oberth that they did with the Nova or the Sabre. Give the people a playable T5 version, nerf them down to be a bit worse than the modern/larger ship classes, but still flyable.
Deep Space Nine is the show you want to use for onscreen evidence that the Miranda, or rather one of its variants, is T5 capable and very powerful. The Centaur is one of the Miranda variants. And the Centaur demonstrated the ability to go toe to toe with the JHAS, one of the best ships in STO.
So a T5 Fleet Miranda, with a special Centaur skin making homage to Captain Charlie Reynolds and his brave crew for their service during the Dominion War. If the Lakota can be the bees knees, so can the Centaur.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
This. Who are we to decide what other people can or cannot fly at endgame? Immersion went out the airlock a long time ago, and adding some more Fed ships - even old ones - is nowhere near as damaging as whatever the next lockbox will undoubtedly offer.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Aww...I didn't realize that some folks were walking around with sore rears just because a number of players would like to see a few of their favorite ships appear in the game. Sorry, but your arguments hold no weight. Cryptic has already reneged on a couple of things that were labeled as "never".
this i sort of got into a funk about this game after i got a Romulan to 50 and didnt feel like going through the grind for marks. I realized I wasn't really having fun with the game. So I rolled another character and decided I was gonna play the way I wanted to...so I bought the TOS pack and TOS ENT. I am playing through the game as if it was during TOS era and with an exeter class ship...currently sitting on level 31...and I am having a good time playing the game
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
IT would be even better to fly around space in current US spaceships? Shuttle? What are they classified as.. you know the giant rocket/shamoo (the whale) looking ships.
Your Javelin deals 125417 (89066) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to Tholian Recluse. > lol
It WOULD make sense to have these lower-tier ships for players to use in Foundry episodes that take place in the past when these ships were the latest and greatest! If the player could have these ships (still being Tier1 or Tier2) they would be on a level playing field with the full variety of NPC ships in the episodes.
How about Tier1/2 PvP space zones?
Having episodes and queues for lower-tier ships would allow people to get their fix for flying these ships, do role playing and play retro Foundry episodes. They would not have to be Tier5 variants.
As far as cost, a lot of these ships are relatively simple in design or are variants of ones already in the game. How about 300 Zen each to make it worth Cryptics time for putting the models together?
SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
What current US spaceships? The shuttles are all done with.
The game already has old antique ships at T5. That ship has sailed. The game already doesn't make sense in that way. Which means to continue to argue against it is really a very subjective thing at this point. You're fine with people flying a D'Kyr which is far older than a Constitution, at T5. But not fine with someone flying a Miranda? That makes just as little sense. At this point, you're simply arguing against some people who want their favorite ship, while you get to fly your favorite ship instead. Which you know, is subjective and fuel for argument.
If you're fine with the game as-is, with Enterprise era ships from the Klingons, Vulcans and Romulans, as well as a souped up modern version of the ENT era Andorian ship all being top tier capable, then arguing against a Constitution, an NX or a Miranda is just trolling fans of those ships.
People already do this. Using the queue system.
dust em off, I want to fly around in one in STO.
Your Javelin deals 125417 (89066) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to Tholian Recluse. > lol
I fully support a T5 Fleet Centaur.
And obviously, a T5 Exeter, Vesper and Excalibur. All modern, recent ship designs. This issue is not about age. And there is a very easy solution to make it not about age.
Right now there's a gaping hole in the fleet setup. There are T2 ships turned into Fleet Variants for every other ship except the Cruiser. Since the stated intention of fleet variants was to make lower tier ships playable at end-game, so that people who for instance, loved the Nova could fly a T5 Nova, they absolutely need to come up with something that adds a low tier cruiser to the fleet system.
Until they do, the development team at best look like clowns. At worst, look disingenuous.