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NO T5 Connie, T5 Miranda, T5 NX

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  • stardestroyer001stardestroyer001 Member Posts: 2,615 Arc User
    edited July 2013

    If you're fine with the game as-is, with Enterprise era ships from the Klingons, Vulcans and Romulans, as well as a souped up modern version of the ENT era Andorian ship all being top tier capable, then arguing against a Constitution, an NX or a Miranda is just trolling fans of those ships.

    It's too late. Cryptic can't just take away ships that people paid for; there would be significant backlash from the T'Varo, Somraw and Andorian ship owners. The only thing we can do now is prevent ships like the Constitution, Oberth, NX, and Miranda and its variants from being included into the T5 category.

    The Centaur-type is not an Excelsior or Miranda variant, it is a kitbash - meaning, like the Yeager-class starship, it does not restrict that vessel to the original design age of its kitbashed components. The Centaur may have been created in the Dominion War, and as seen in one episode, it drove off a Jem'Hadar fighter by itself. I would support the Centaur being included as a balanced T5 starship.
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  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Okay what logical reason is their for starfleet to bring back the connie and make her T 5? I don't see it. as it stands no TOS Connie t 5. CBS can change that if they like but for now drop it.

    Miranda Oberth and Excel are the longest and most produced claases in the fleet have probably hundreds of them built. by DW I bet nearly half of the fleet were Miranda and Excel. Oberth on her way out with Nova replacing her. thus why we see tons of them in fleets but they took a pounding so they would slowly be replaced by newer designs. I could see Lakota type Excels still be viable by this time. Centaur is liley slightly younger then Excel by a decade or 2. Ships classes come out in family types. Galaxy, Nebula, Chyenne, and New Orleans all look the same and designed in the same era thus family group. So Excel, Shelby/Curry, and Centuar are another family.

    Zen ships I can mind and people will have fun with but should close to cannon and maintain game balance.
  • javaman1969javaman1969 Member Posts: 298 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Say you are a tier 5 player. You probably have higher level ships already and extra ship equipment earned from completing missions waiting to be used. So, raid your other ships and your personal stores for usable T4 and T5 equipment and install them on Old Connie. You are only limited by your hull strength and number of equipment slots, both of which need to be smaller because it's a much smaller vessel than a Sovereign or a Tier 5 Star Cruiser and an affordable ship for general missions.
    What is stopping a player from just putting in a hit me with your best shot shield array, a ridiculous speed warp core and MK-bazillion phasers on an existing low-tier? I have no problem with upgrading old ships, but it should be a DIY project for the creative skipper.
    His methods have become unsound.
  • matchstick606matchstick606 Member Posts: 233 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    can we also get a T5 Saturn V rocket? maybe even a lunar lander pet to go with it. All joking aside i would love to see a T5 miranda but i'm not holding any hope for one. The lockbox and romulan ships are getting priority, so if they ever did want to add older ships into T5 i don't think it would be any time soon..

    maybe one day i'll be able to fly my miranda again.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Centaur is liley slightly younger then Excel by a decade or 2. Ships classes come out in family types. Galaxy, Nebula, Chyenne, and New Orleans all look the same and designed in the same era thus family group. So Excel, Shelby/Curry, and Centuar are another family.

    The Centaur is from the time of the Dominion War. It's presented as its own class of ship and as a prototype. It's much younger than you are suggesting it is. It's younger than the Galaxy class. It's far more recent a ship than the Excelsior.
    Say you are a tier 5 player. You probably have higher level ships already and extra ship equipment earned from completing missions waiting to be used. So, raid your other ships and your personal stores for usable T4 and T5 equipment and install them on Old Connie. You are only limited by your hull strength and number of equipment slots, both of which need to be smaller because it's a much smaller vessel than a Sovereign or a Tier 5 Star Cruiser and an affordable ship for general missions.
    What is stopping a player from just putting in a hit me with your best shot shield array, a ridiculous speed warp core and MK-bazillion phasers on an existing low-tier? I have no problem with upgrading old ships, but it should be a DIY project for the creative skipper.

    If I wanted to fly a T5 Nova, I can. If I wanted to fly a T5 Saber, I can.

    If I wanted to fly a T5 version of a T2 cruiser, well ... I can't.
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  • javaman1969javaman1969 Member Posts: 298 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    What is a T5 retrofit anyway?

    It's a ship that I can't buy until I'm an admiral; maybe it has some extra tonnage and some extra device slots, or a new toy or two to make it worth the zen. In that case, no, they do not offer one of those as a Constitution. But, I can still upgrade any old ship to my hearts delight for as long as I keep playing within certain built-in limitations, and that's kind of nice, too.
    His methods have become unsound.
  • ussberlinussberlin Member Posts: 306 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    none of them

    only TNG or better DSN/Voy and beyond Ships at T5 and soon to come maybe T6

    Its already a bit stupid when Vulcan, Andor and so on are now in Federation that they have T5 Ships after so many years they joined the FoP. I Think the Fed ships are built by all not only the people from earth.
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  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The Centaur is from the time of the Dominion War. It's presented as its own class of ship and as a prototype. It's much younger than you are suggesting it is. It's younger than the Galaxy class. It's far more recent a ship than the Excelsior.



    If I wanted to fly a T5 Nova, I can. If I wanted to fly a T5 Saber, I can.

    If I wanted to fly a T5 version of a T2 cruiser, well ... I can't.

    Proof? She may have first seen her in DW but she could easily been around longer. Why make Centuar out of Miranda and Excel parts if she's as young as you say. Galaxy parts would be more appropieate.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Proof?

    Deep Space Nine. And what Sisko says about the ship and her captain when it appears.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ussberlin wrote: »
    only TNG or better DSN/Voy and beyond Ships at T5

    What game are you playing? Certainly not STO.
    and soon to come maybe T6

    Oh wait. Nevermind. You can't be playing STO. Because T6 is a myth.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • stardestroyer001stardestroyer001 Member Posts: 2,615 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Proof? She may have first seen her in DW but she could easily been around longer. Why make Centuar out of Miranda and Excel parts if she's as young as you say. Galaxy parts would be more appropieate.

    The saucer of the Galaxy is huge. Starfleet, if looking for a cheap small offensive ship, might not want to use the costly Galaxy saucer and engines, and instead manufacture smaller saucers and engines.

    Oh look! The Excelsior saucer! Why don't we use that. It's relatively modern, small, and has some nice engines in the back. Slap on some really cheap Miranda-class parts, and we have a new, cheap, small offensive ship, brand new and ready for Dominion War action.
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  • cookiecrookcookiecrook Member Posts: 4,547 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I would like to see, in writing and signed by someone from CBS with the authority to make it so, saying that they will not allow a T5 Connie and the other ships mentioned from the original post. Without that, I personally do not believe that is the case. In the past, we had a dev veto the Ambassador for 4 years because they hated the ship. It's that type of behavior by those who develop this game that take away from STO getting better. I firmly believe everyone in this game should have the option to play whatever ship they wish at max level as long as it suits their faction.
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  • stardestroyer001stardestroyer001 Member Posts: 2,615 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I just emailed CBS Interactive Customer service, asking for confirmation of the banned T5 TOS Constitution , and if there are any other ships from the Trek shows and movies that are also under the T5 ban. We'll see what they respond with.
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  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Deep Space Nine. And what Sisko says about the ship and her captain when it appears.

    could you link it please. as far as we know most of Starfleet was made of refited 23rd century ships now Centaur could have been made in early 24th and tech refited over time. till I see proof that's as i stand.
  • javaman1969javaman1969 Member Posts: 298 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I think I know where the T5 Connie crowd is coming from, but, I look at the issue in another way, one in terms of story.

    Some of my favorite sci-fi characters in other franchises are captains who can pull off unexpected feats of flying in outdated ships. No need to name names, you can guess. STO is not much different. A captain who upgrades when he needs to and keeps an eye open for replacement parts can keep his beloved bucket of bolts in the sky for a good long time. However, I have no problem with that fact that Starfleet engineering can only go so far in upgrading older designs, or in specing out a ship beyond her intended role. In the case of the Connie, that would be something that may not be the fanciest ship in the fleet anymore, but an old, proven workorse that still has ways to serve the Federation.
    There needs to be a point, though, where you, as a captain, look at your beloved ship, look at the ultra-modern monstrosity your enemy is flying, look at your ship again, and say to yourself "I need to either put on the charm, bluff, or call for backup".
    His methods have become unsound.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    There needs to be a point, though, where you, as a captain, look at your beloved ship, look at the ultra-modern monstrosity your enemy is flying, look at your ship again, and say to yourself "I need to either put on the charm, bluff, or call for backup".

    Like the T'Varo or Somraw that the enemy might be flying?

    amirite?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dknight0001dknight0001 Member Posts: 1,542
    edited July 2013
    Like the T'Varo or Somraw that the enemy might be flying?

    amirite?

    If they took these designs out and gave us close to the number of fed ship designs I'd be happy.

    Fed ships generally come in four designs three Free and one Zen. KDF/Romulan come in two, Free and Zen.

    Now if Cryptic want to remove these old designs and give us new designs in there place I'd be fine with it. But do you really think they are going to?

    And in all Seriousness a pair of outdated B'Rel class BoPs under Ferengi Command took on the Galaxy and won.

    So we do have a Fleet T'Varo and Fleet Somraw Cryptic could bump these ships to newer models.
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  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    As I've said before...

    Age argument went out the window after Fleet D7 and, more importantly, T'Varo. Combined with D'Kyr, Kumari, etc. etc. from the "older than Connie class"...

    CBS restriction? CBS also (supposedly) said that they didn't want fleets to be, at any time, comprised of primarily "non faction" ships, which is why the lockbox system was implemented to begin with... Then came the second Breed invasion of ESD during the winter event... One CBS never done away with... :P

    Connie vs. Regent/Oddy/etc. Okay, I won't necessarily argue this one. Especially since it fits into the following "plan"...

    "Naval traditions" has it that as the heavy cruisers of "yesteryear" are the light cruisers of "this year"... Also, IIRC, the Connie is about the same size as an Intrepid (Voyager class), and Voy has been nicknamed the "light cruiser" (aka science vessel) of STO.

    Therefore, slotting the Connie as a Science ship (3/3 weapons, subsystem targetting, sensor analysis, big TRIBBLE shields, light hull, etc. etc.) would be "canonolical". Also, it sets up the following spread:

    There are 6 "types" of Trek, in "age order": ENT, ToS, TMP, TNG, DS9, VOY. We already have the Galaxy (TNG), Defiant (DS9), Intrepid (Voy), and Excelsior (TMP) with "tier 5 representation". Note that the Galaxy & Excelsior are Cruisers, the Intrepid a Sci, and the Defiant an escort. There is no ToS and ENT representation in "tier 5"...

    If we were to slot the Connie as a Science / ToS ship, that leaves ENT and only one "hero" escort. Since the NX is an "inverted Akira", and the Akiras are already escorts, a proper rebuild of the current Akiras could be the ENT/NX hero. Annoyingly for ENT fans, keeping the "no shields all hull" trick won't work at T5. Still, an "obvious recreation" is better than no representation at all.

    3 Classes, 6 "types". Galaxy/Excelsior Cruisers, Intrepid/Connie Scis, Defiant/"NX" escorts. I'd say this makes for a nice spread of "hero" ships and eras... ;)
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

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  • cidstormcidstorm Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    This thread is basically asking Cryptic to not let certain people have as much fun as they could playing the game. The logic of attempting any other purpose has been defeated.

    It's also asking Cryptic to not make as much money as they could, effectively limiting the games life span and quality.
  • javaman1969javaman1969 Member Posts: 298 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    dareau wrote: »
    As I've said before...

    "Naval traditions" has it that as the heavy cruisers of "yesteryear" are the light cruisers of "this year"... Also, IIRC, the Connie is about the same size as an Intrepid (Voyager class), and Voy has been nicknamed the "light cruiser" (aka science vessel) of STO.

    Therefore, slotting the Connie as a Science ship (3/3 weapons, subsystem targetting, sensor analysis, big TRIBBLE shields, light hull, etc. etc.) would be "canonolical". Also, it sets up the following spread:

    Basically What we have here is
    T1 Cruisers:
    Miranda and it's variants: A light cruiser with an extremely long production run for a Starfleet ship. So, many are still in operation.
    Constitution: (special classic ship, Zen item) Captain Kirk's original 5 year mission ship. Obsolete after Constitution refit, so, very few are still in operation.

    T2 cruisers:
    Constitution Refit: (classic dress). Basically what Admiral Kirk flew between the V'ger incident and his retirement. Obsolete after the Excelsior class. Some are still in operation. Ability to swap parts with newer T2s
    Excalibur and Vesper classes: (new dress). New design ships inspired by classic Constitution format.
    Exeter: (new dress, Zen Item) Same as above with extra aft weapon slot, extra sci console slot, sci console that helps your torpedoes track cloaked ships. (I'm a big fan of the Exeter).

    The questions to be considered for the game are:
    1: What does Starfleet Command consider to be is the proper role of Antique vessels (eg. Miranda, Constitution)?
    2: What doe Starfleet Command consider to be the proper role of Excalibur, Vesper, Exeter classes?

    Outfitted properly, All of the above can complete many (not all) types of general missions asked of a Starship as-is.

    Now, we have the Intrepid class (and long range science vessel variants), which seems to me to be the proper 24th-25th century descendant of the venerable Constitutions in both size and original mission.
    His methods have become unsound.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,905 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    D'kyr class science vessel, T'varo light warbird, B'rel bird of prey and K't'inga battle cruiser take your point into crossfire. It's completely atomized.:eek:

    Not mentioning that none of your points applies to the Excalibur. :D

    Starfleet likes to make new things...make things bigger and better...advance things. The Klingons and other races...they come along and find something that works, why build something new when something is tried, tested, and true?

    Starfleet loves to build bigger and better things, but very rarely they find things that are very efficient and work well like the Excelsior. As it was seen in DS9 a properly updated Excelsior could of destroyed the Defiant if they didn't refuse to use their quantum torpedos.

    There are reasons why they gave up on the Constitution and not the Miranda or Excelsior. Before someone goes along saying but the starfleet corps was able to make a NX that can be fitted with modern tech.

    There are reasons why its not above a tier 1...the ships very well might not be capable of accepting new technology beyond the bare minimum of a 25th century ship. Or at the very least it might take them having to do so much redesigning to the point where it isn't the ship it was based off of.
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  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    If they took these designs out

    So you advocate them taking away ships people paid resources for?
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  • age03age03 Member Posts: 1,664 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    You are also depriving those fans who prefer these ships over others as they prefer TOS and TMP more so than any TNG,DS9 and Voy.

    They will just stop playing and buying any zen.
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  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    age03 wrote: »
    You are also depriving those fans who prefer these ships over others as they prefer TOS and TMP more so than any TNG,DS9 and Voy.

    They will just stop playing and buying any zen.

    Then they shouldn't be playing STO, STO is TNG era game DEAL WITH IT.
  • magniacapramagniacapra Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'm done with the antiques. Stop vamping the IP. Trek must go forward not backwards.
  • age03age03 Member Posts: 1,664 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Then they shouldn't be playing STO, STO is TNG era game DEAL WITH IT.

    I wonder how man players they would lose becasue of this?Why did they do episdoes from TOS and TMP.
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  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    age03 wrote: »
    I wonder how man players they would lose becasue of this?Why did they do episdoes from TOS and TMP.

    To give nods to the classic era but again this is TNG era game. I expect to see TNG era ships in it. not TMP era ships known to be retired at this point. IF a TMP era game was made i'd join it to if it was good.
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