This is sad, you can admit the TNG ships have been replaced, but can't accept that people want and should get to play ships that are older.
Should get to play? So just because some want it it means they should get it? So if I like the Vickers F.B.5 it means that the antique should be in Battlefield 4 and should compete with modern jet fighters?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I am a fan of TOS and I brought both Connie and NC. But we have to let go of these designs. They are fine for T1 but it would be beyond silly to have Connies blow up Tactical cubes.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I would take that with a truckload of salt. I have never seen the devs make a distinction at any time of which Constitution class CBS said no to
In one sense, yes it should be taken with a grain of salt. In another sense, no, there has been commentary specific to which Constitution it was in reference to. The commentary comes from DStahl. So yeah, take it with a grain of salt because a lot of what DStahl has said in the past needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
But ... he did mention the TOS Constitution is what CBS was referring to. It's the comment everyone clings to when they say "CBS BANNED the connie."
here is the way I see it. sto doesn't make any sense whatsoever. lets take a look. we have feds and Klingons running around in 29th century timeships, as well as cardassian warships, dominion warships, ferengi marauders, not to mention the dyker, t'varo warbird, somraw raptor, and the andorian kumari are all 22nd century ships and there all tier 5. some of them even have fleet versions.
so why can't we have our favorite tier 5 ships? cryptic and pwe have thrown the cannon rule book out the airlock with this game. this game is soft cannon at best! so I ask again. why can't we have a tier 5 nx and so forth? cryptic and pwe will make more money which will make us the paying customer base very happy and I have to point out that since we pay to support the game that what we want is most important for the game because if we get what we want we will spend money. when we spend money the game evolves. when cryptic and pwe get money from us there happy. it's a win win situation.
and just to be clear i'm gonna say it again. it doesn't make sense to make some 22nd and 23rd century ships tier 5 and not others. as the Vulcans would say ( IT'S MOST ILOGICAL).
here is the way I see it. sto doesn't make any sense whatsoever. lets take a look. we have feds and Klingons running around in 29th century timeships, as well as cardassian warships, dominion warships, ferengi marauders, not to mention the dyker, t'varo warbird, somraw raptor, and the andorian kumari are all 22nd century ships and there all tier 5. some of them even have fleet versions. (...)
This, again and again. Star Trek Online does not have any consistent "canon" of it's own, they wasted that opportunity years ago. It's just a playground with Trek themed models and built-in chat. Give people whatever ship they want at endgame, it would only improve the visual diversity I have to witness when doing my rep grind.
STO could have had the balls to set the game in a specific timeframe: Pre-TOS and let us experience the beginning, Classic (what had been awesome) and let us relive the Klingon wars, Next Gen and let us experience what we know from the latest shows or 25th century and create an all original setting. All of that had been fine, but they knew that an MMO bearing the name Star Trek would not survive without massive fan service and the MMO inherint "pretty snowflake" customization of the avatars. Thus, they threw every restriction out of the airlock and just mushed together everything in a huge, nonsensical Trek-mess mixed with their own designs. 29th century timeships are en par with Excelsiors, my 23rd century type 2 hand phaser outperformes a original cryptic 25th century plasma minigun - just forget it.
The ship sailed looong ago. Let it be. And wait for another Star Trek game that maybe will give us Trekkies a more authentic representation of our favourite Sci-Fi universe
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
here is the way I see it. sto doesn't make any sense whatsoever. lets take a look. we have feds and Klingons running around in 29th century timeships, as well as cardassian warships, dominion warships, ferengi marauders, not to mention the dyker, t'varo warbird, somraw raptor, and the andorian kumari are all 22nd century ships and there all tier 5. some of them even have fleet versions.
so why can't we have our favorite tier 5 ships? cryptic and pwe have thrown the cannon rule book out the airlock with this game. this game is soft cannon at best! so I ask again. why can't we have a tier 5 nx and so forth? cryptic and pwe will make more money which will make us the paying customer base very happy and I have to point out that since we pay to support the game that what we want is most important for the game because if we get what we want we will spend money. when we spend money the game evolves. when cryptic and pwe get money from us there happy. it's a win win situation.
and just to be clear i'm gonna say it again. it doesn't make sense to make some 22nd and 23rd century ships tier 5 and not others. as the Vulcans would say ( IT'S MOST ILOGICAL).
Those ships were built apon and upgraded over the years, Starfleet dumped the constitution class 130 years ago...like I said Starfleet is known for moving onto bigger and better things.
They have ships like the Excalibur, Exeter, and Vesper which could be added as fleet ships, but there is no logical reason Starfleet would want to go back and use a rust bucket from more than a century ago that didn't stand the tests of time.
Starfleet obviously isn't clouded by nostalgia like some people...
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
In one sense, yes it should be taken with a grain of salt. In another sense, no, there has been commentary specific to which Constitution it was in reference to. The commentary comes from DStahl. So yeah, take it with a grain of salt because a lot of what DStahl has said in the past needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
But ... he did mention the TOS Constitution is what CBS was referring to. It's the comment everyone clings to when they say "CBS BANNED the connie."
The devs have also called the Kirk movies TOS movies on numerous occasions, instead of the generally accepted TMP label. So again, you can't take that dstahl said TOS connie as any kind of evidence.
You know what is evidence tho? That we don't have a fleet T2 cruiser. We know Cryptic sold out a long time ago, and will do dang near anything for a buck. The fact that we don't have it already tells me they aren't allowed to.
Well I for one would like to see a T5 version of the Exeter/Excalibur.
Its a cool 25th Century reinterpretation of the classic Constitution Class. Furthmore the Excalibur is the ship on the front of the damned box for the game not to mention the header for the steam store page.
As for the TOS Connie and the NX, I still have fun kitting them out with endgame gear and going into Normal STF's so I'm already content with those as is haha!
THE ARTIST FORMALLY KNOWN AS TRYULIS Vice Admiral Dir Sonatra, I.R.W. Kholairlha, Scimitar Class Warbird Vice Admiral Oshin S'ree, USS Steamrunner, Steamrunner Class
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Why is it absurd? Using human logic for alien races is absurd. Humans need change. We need everything to be new and different from the previous generation. After all people have to buy the latest iPhone or similar product when their old one works perfectly fine. Therefore our ship designs have to change every few years and any old ship design that still exists was built years ago and not recently.
Alien races don't have to follow that logic. If the ship design works perfectly fine, then why replace it? All that is needed is to utilize the latest technology in its construction. Therefore Starfleet ship designs from 200 years ago would make sense for a Lieutenant to operate while a Tier 5 version piloted by a Vice Admiral doesn't. It also makes sense why Romulan ship designs can be operated at Tier 1 and Tier 5. The Tier 1 Romulan ship is from 200 years ago while the Tier 5 ship was built recently using recent shipyard technologies. So while the design is the same, all the technology in the Tier 5 Romulan ship is completely different.
Making Tier 5 versions of the Constitution and NX would be like putting a V8 engine in a Model T. It might go faster than an original Model T, but it would not go faster than any Car that was designed with the V8 engine in mind.
You seem to be confusing capitalist values with human values here, but your point is interesting. Realistically I think alien ships didn't change much because it is cheaper to reuse the same models. I would imagine, If we had another series there would be greater variety.
I know the t5 excelcior has 4 forward weapon. But I think the connie should only have 3. But even the stats of the shield and hull don't need to change too much. But the Boff layout is just ridiculous. I have a borged out connie and I still fly it sometimes. But one tactical slot is insufficient. It takes too long to kill anything.
Well I for one would like to see a T5 version of the Exeter/Excalibur.
Its a cool 25th Century reinterpretation of the classic Constitution Class. Furthmore the Excalibur is the ship on the front of the damned box for the game not to mention the header for the steam store page.
As for the TOS Connie and the NX, I still have fun kitting them out with endgame gear and going into Normal STF's so I'm already content with those as is haha!
I agree with this.
I understand not wanting a fleet version of the Connie, NX, or Miranda. But the Exeter is my favorite looking ship and fully modern in the game universe.
The Constitution is not dead, be happy...the USS Kittyprize still lives on and is making a name for itself! You can search the Skill Planner section for ship builds (Federation/Tactical/Constitution Cruiser) or I have also added the link to our federation shipyards section, look for my new thread, "What Cats use =^.^=
I use this build to take on all none Elite level missions and STF's successfully, nor have I been destroyed in over a month.
It takes a professional Caitian to make the magic happen!
How about a fleet version of the Tuffli class freighter? anyway, a fleet version of the Miranda or Constitution, or NX classes is just polishing a TRIBBLE. That's why they are set up in game for people who are levels 1 to 10, good for newbies, bad for anything more. Sure a fleet version would have higher stats but they'd still be limited to 2 weapon slots so not much firepower and the new stats would be really poor compaired to other fleet ships. May as well just dig out your old Miranda if you still have it or pick up the other two from the c shop for 500 zen and shove some fleet equipment on it.
As for the NX-class, that ship is even older. The design is likely too old - the equivalent of the Wright brothers' plane. Trying to strap jet engines, missiles, guidance... you'll fly the plane apart.
THEN FLY HER APART!
Sorry. Had to say that.
Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
Amazed and amused that this thread is still active.
Why? Because a T5 Centaur is somehow hard to believe? It did go toe to toe with the JHAS on-screen. Meaning it's got hard canon evidence that it can stand up to what is one of the most powerful ships in all of STO.
So I'm not sure I see why people have a hard time accepting a T5 Centaur Fleet Variant of the T1 starter cruiser?
So I'm not sure I see why people have a hard time accepting a T5 Centaur Fleet Variant of the T1 starter cruiser?
Because they're in denial of what an awesome, beautiful, and sexy ship the Miranda-class really is. :P
... Besides, the way the starting ship is laid out lends an interesting possibility for a T5 BOff layout:
1 Cdr Tac, 1Cdr Eng, 1 Cdr Sci. Full stop.
I'm not sure if that's utterly broken because of the multiple commander-level powers, or completely useless because of the lack of lower-end powers to provide depth of role-support.
Okay, probably the broken one.
Still, it would probably take some really creative power combinations to make that BOff pattern do any specific job truly well. And if nothing else, it would be a ship truly unlike anything else in the game. Give it 3 consoles of each type, and that should give the ship a real jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none vibe!
(Or even pull the weapon slots from a "normal" 4/3 to a science-style 3/3 if she gets too problematic.)
... then again, I'm a screaming Miranda-class fan with a poor sense of balance, so feel free to rebuff this hair-brained idea at your leisure. :P
True success is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm.
-- Winston Churchill
Why? Because a T5 Centaur is somehow hard to believe? It did go toe to toe with the JHAS on-screen. Meaning it's got hard canon evidence that it can stand up to what is one of the most powerful ships in all of STO.
So I'm not sure I see why people have a hard time accepting a T5 Centaur Fleet Variant of the T1 starter cruiser?
Because it did no such thing? It was allowed to take pot shots at a JHAS that Sisko was in command of. Sisko didn't even fight back until he realized the other captain wasn't backing off. Even after getting in multiple free shots, all it did was knock out coms and damage one thruster.
At no point did it get into a pitched battle with a bug ship where there was a jemmy crew willing to do more than try to disable weapons. It even turned tail and ran at the first sign of reinforcements.
I would suggest watching DS9 again. The episode in question is A Time to Stand.
Because they're in denial of what an awesome, beautiful, and sexy ship the Miranda-class really is. :P
... Besides, the way the starting ship is laid out lends an interesting possibility for a T5 BOff layout:
1 Cdr Tac, 1Cdr Eng, 1 Cdr Sci. Full stop.
I'm not sure if that's utterly broken because of the multiple commander-level powers, or completely useless because of the lack of lower-end powers to provide depth of role-support.
Okay, probably the broken one.
Still, it would probably take some really creative power combinations to make that BOff pattern do any specific job truly well. And if nothing else, it would be a ship truly unlike anything else in the game. Give it 3 consoles of each type, and that should give the ship a real jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none vibe!
(Or even pull the weapon slots from a "normal" 4/3 to a science-style 3/3 if she gets too problematic.)
... then again, I'm a screaming Miranda-class fan with a poor sense of balance, so feel free to rebuff this hair-brained idea at your leisure. :P
Nope. At least I am in denial of ships that don't make sense being matched up against top of the line ships. Tier 5 ships are supposed to be the best ships available to a faction. There is no way that immense modifications to a Miranda, NX, or Constitution would make them as powerful as a Sovereign, Prometheus, or Vesta. To match those ships up to current Tier 5 ships would require late 25th or early 26th Century technology.
Although, the Miranda, NX, or Constitution Refits could be made as Tier 3 ships.
The Centaur and Charlie Reynolds lasted through a good chunk of the Dominion War. And it showed up in other episodes like Rocks and Shoals and Sacrifice of Angels.
The ship's firepower was shown in A Time to Stand. Sisko sung Reynolds' praises. It wasn't surprising to anyone that the ship could chase off a JHAS.
I suggest you watch the episode again. And the rest of DS9.
The Centaur was a powerful ship. And could stand toe to toe with a JHAS.
It's certainly got just as much "evidence" of being T5 as the LAKOTA does.
The Centaur and Charlie Reynolds lasted through a good chunk of the Dominion War. And it showed up in other episodes like Rocks and Shoals and Sacrifice of Angels.
The ship's firepower was shown in A Time to Stand. Sisko sung Reynolds' praises. It wasn't surprising to anyone that the ship could chase off a JHAS.
I suggest you watch the episode again. And the rest of DS9.
The Centaur was a powerful ship. And could stand toe to toe with a JHAS.
It's certainly got just as much "evidence" of being T5 as the LAKOTA does.
But it sounds more like a great captain in a crappy ship rather than a great captain in a great ship. It doesn't sound like Sisko was taking the fight seriously. So there is no evidence that a Centaur can effectively take on a JHAS since the Centaur was fighting against a friend of the Captain that would not fire on them. If actual Jem'Hadar were in that JHAS, then it is unlikely the Centaur would have survived. So there is no evidence that the Centaur deserves Tier 5 status.
But it sounds more like a great captain in a crappy ship rather than a great captain in a great ship. It doesn't sound like Sisko was taking the fight seriously. So there is no evidence that a Centaur can effectively take on a JHAS since the Centaur was fighting against a friend of the Captain that would not fire on them. If actual Jem'Hadar were in that JHAS, then it is unlikely the Centaur would have survived. So there is no evidence that the Centaur deserves Tier 5 status.
Sacrifice of Angels shows the Centaur taking part in the battle, and surviving, fighting Cardassian ships and Jem'Hadar ships.
And Sisko was taking the fight seriously when he was in a JHAS and the Centaur was chasing them. Watch the episode. He's not goofing around and neither is the Centaur. It's really the same situation that prompted the Lakota to get the T5 treatment in STO.
There's no wiggling your way around this. The Centaur is an onscreen example of a Miranda "variant" that kicked major butt in the Dominion War. It's the same evidence Cryptic devs used to buff the heck out of the Lakota and make a T5 Excelsior the bees knees in this game.
The Centaur and Charlie Reynolds lasted through a good chunk of the Dominion War. And it showed up in other episodes like Rocks and Shoals and Sacrifice of Angels.
The ship's firepower was shown in A Time to Stand. Sisko sung Reynolds' praises. It wasn't surprising to anyone that the ship could chase off a JHAS.
I suggest you watch the episode again. And the rest of DS9.
The Centaur was a powerful ship. And could stand toe to toe with a JHAS.
It's certainly got just as much "evidence" of being T5 as the LAKOTA does.
I watched that episode prior to posting. The fight played out exactly as I stated. Sisko ran for the border instead of fighting a fellow captain. The Centaur got in a dozen or so unanswered shots, and still did no appreciable damage.
Nope. At least I am in denial of ships that don't make sense being matched up against top of the line ships. Tier 5 ships are supposed to be the best ships available to a faction.
Believe it or not, I agree with you on the Constitution (which was clearly eclipsed by the Excelsior in the Undiscovered Country) and double-agree on the NX (which was an inadequate rust-bucket even when it was new).
... but I have a soft spot in my heart for the Miranda, so I hope you'll forgive my enthusiasm whenever it comes up.
I don't expect to see a T5 Miranda. I won't cry any tears if the Devs were to say from on high "CBS says no," like what I've heard about the Constitution.
But the Miranda-class is my second-favorite ship in all of Trek, and I will fangasm over it at the slightest provocation.
Still... there is precedence for older ships to kick butt long, long after you'd think they'd reached their sell-by date. After all, I'm sure the Lakota has come up a half-dozen times in this thread by now at least. But when you consider all the factors involved in that incident... I think we can give late 23rd-century ship designs the benefit of the doubt here, right?
... I know, I know. The Excelsior's a special case, and its operational lifespan is legend in the setting. But who's to say that none of its contemporaries were able to bottle even a fraction of that lightning?
(Besides, you have the Kumari and D'kyr sitting pretty at T5, and they're both contemporaries of the old NX-class! ... but they also aren't Starfleet ships, so I won't belabor that point.)
Still, I'd like to reiterate that I neither expect, nor do I even intend to agitate all that hard for a T5 Miranda. Frankly, I'd rather see the effort put into the KDF... but when one of my favorites come up, I just can't help myself...
True success is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm.
-- Winston Churchill
Comments
Should get to play? So just because some want it it means they should get it? So if I like the Vickers F.B.5 it means that the antique should be in Battlefield 4 and should compete with modern jet fighters?
- Judge Aaron Satie
In one sense, yes it should be taken with a grain of salt. In another sense, no, there has been commentary specific to which Constitution it was in reference to. The commentary comes from DStahl. So yeah, take it with a grain of salt because a lot of what DStahl has said in the past needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
But ... he did mention the TOS Constitution is what CBS was referring to. It's the comment everyone clings to when they say "CBS BANNED the connie."
so why can't we have our favorite tier 5 ships? cryptic and pwe have thrown the cannon rule book out the airlock with this game. this game is soft cannon at best! so I ask again. why can't we have a tier 5 nx and so forth? cryptic and pwe will make more money which will make us the paying customer base very happy and I have to point out that since we pay to support the game that what we want is most important for the game because if we get what we want we will spend money. when we spend money the game evolves. when cryptic and pwe get money from us there happy. it's a win win situation.
and just to be clear i'm gonna say it again. it doesn't make sense to make some 22nd and 23rd century ships tier 5 and not others. as the Vulcans would say ( IT'S MOST ILOGICAL).
This, again and again. Star Trek Online does not have any consistent "canon" of it's own, they wasted that opportunity years ago. It's just a playground with Trek themed models and built-in chat. Give people whatever ship they want at endgame, it would only improve the visual diversity I have to witness when doing my rep grind.
STO could have had the balls to set the game in a specific timeframe: Pre-TOS and let us experience the beginning, Classic (what had been awesome) and let us relive the Klingon wars, Next Gen and let us experience what we know from the latest shows or 25th century and create an all original setting. All of that had been fine, but they knew that an MMO bearing the name Star Trek would not survive without massive fan service and the MMO inherint "pretty snowflake" customization of the avatars. Thus, they threw every restriction out of the airlock and just mushed together everything in a huge, nonsensical Trek-mess mixed with their own designs. 29th century timeships are en par with Excelsiors, my 23rd century type 2 hand phaser outperformes a original cryptic 25th century plasma minigun - just forget it.
The ship sailed looong ago. Let it be. And wait for another Star Trek game that maybe will give us Trekkies a more authentic representation of our favourite Sci-Fi universe
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With the D7 skin.
:cool:
Those ships were built apon and upgraded over the years, Starfleet dumped the constitution class 130 years ago...like I said Starfleet is known for moving onto bigger and better things.
They have ships like the Excalibur, Exeter, and Vesper which could be added as fleet ships, but there is no logical reason Starfleet would want to go back and use a rust bucket from more than a century ago that didn't stand the tests of time.
Starfleet obviously isn't clouded by nostalgia like some people...
The devs have also called the Kirk movies TOS movies on numerous occasions, instead of the generally accepted TMP label. So again, you can't take that dstahl said TOS connie as any kind of evidence.
You know what is evidence tho? That we don't have a fleet T2 cruiser. We know Cryptic sold out a long time ago, and will do dang near anything for a buck. The fact that we don't have it already tells me they aren't allowed to.
Its a cool 25th Century reinterpretation of the classic Constitution Class. Furthmore the Excalibur is the ship on the front of the damned box for the game not to mention the header for the steam store page.
As for the TOS Connie and the NX, I still have fun kitting them out with endgame gear and going into Normal STF's
Vice Admiral Dir Sonatra, I.R.W. Kholairlha, Scimitar Class Warbird
Vice Admiral Oshin S'ree, USS Steamrunner, Steamrunner Class
TEN FORWARD FLEET
That website has no contact information about inquiries. It's as if they don't want to be contacted other than applying to be a licensee.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
You seem to be confusing capitalist values with human values here, but your point is interesting. Realistically I think alien ships didn't change much because it is cheaper to reuse the same models. I would imagine, If we had another series there would be greater variety.
I know the t5 excelcior has 4 forward weapon. But I think the connie should only have 3. But even the stats of the shield and hull don't need to change too much. But the Boff layout is just ridiculous. I have a borged out connie and I still fly it sometimes. But one tactical slot is insufficient. It takes too long to kill anything.
I agree with this.
I understand not wanting a fleet version of the Connie, NX, or Miranda. But the Exeter is my favorite looking ship and fully modern in the game universe.
I use this build to take on all none Elite level missions and STF's successfully, nor have I been destroyed in over a month.
It takes a professional Caitian to make the magic happen!
This is not the fanbase you are looking for.
:cool:
THEN FLY HER APART!
Sorry. Had to say that.
Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
Amazed and amused that this thread is still active.
Why? Because a T5 Centaur is somehow hard to believe? It did go toe to toe with the JHAS on-screen. Meaning it's got hard canon evidence that it can stand up to what is one of the most powerful ships in all of STO.
So I'm not sure I see why people have a hard time accepting a T5 Centaur Fleet Variant of the T1 starter cruiser?
... Besides, the way the starting ship is laid out lends an interesting possibility for a T5 BOff layout:
1 Cdr Tac, 1Cdr Eng, 1 Cdr Sci. Full stop.
I'm not sure if that's utterly broken because of the multiple commander-level powers, or completely useless because of the lack of lower-end powers to provide depth of role-support.
Okay, probably the broken one.
Still, it would probably take some really creative power combinations to make that BOff pattern do any specific job truly well. And if nothing else, it would be a ship truly unlike anything else in the game. Give it 3 consoles of each type, and that should give the ship a real jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none vibe!
(Or even pull the weapon slots from a "normal" 4/3 to a science-style 3/3 if she gets too problematic.)
... then again, I'm a screaming Miranda-class fan with a poor sense of balance, so feel free to rebuff this hair-brained idea at your leisure. :P
-- Winston Churchill
Because it did no such thing? It was allowed to take pot shots at a JHAS that Sisko was in command of. Sisko didn't even fight back until he realized the other captain wasn't backing off. Even after getting in multiple free shots, all it did was knock out coms and damage one thruster.
At no point did it get into a pitched battle with a bug ship where there was a jemmy crew willing to do more than try to disable weapons. It even turned tail and ran at the first sign of reinforcements.
I would suggest watching DS9 again. The episode in question is A Time to Stand.
Nope. At least I am in denial of ships that don't make sense being matched up against top of the line ships. Tier 5 ships are supposed to be the best ships available to a faction. There is no way that immense modifications to a Miranda, NX, or Constitution would make them as powerful as a Sovereign, Prometheus, or Vesta. To match those ships up to current Tier 5 ships would require late 25th or early 26th Century technology.
Although, the Miranda, NX, or Constitution Refits could be made as Tier 3 ships.
The Centaur and Charlie Reynolds lasted through a good chunk of the Dominion War. And it showed up in other episodes like Rocks and Shoals and Sacrifice of Angels.
The ship's firepower was shown in A Time to Stand. Sisko sung Reynolds' praises. It wasn't surprising to anyone that the ship could chase off a JHAS.
I suggest you watch the episode again. And the rest of DS9.
The Centaur was a powerful ship. And could stand toe to toe with a JHAS.
It's certainly got just as much "evidence" of being T5 as the LAKOTA does.
But it sounds more like a great captain in a crappy ship rather than a great captain in a great ship. It doesn't sound like Sisko was taking the fight seriously. So there is no evidence that a Centaur can effectively take on a JHAS since the Centaur was fighting against a friend of the Captain that would not fire on them. If actual Jem'Hadar were in that JHAS, then it is unlikely the Centaur would have survived. So there is no evidence that the Centaur deserves Tier 5 status.
Sacrifice of Angels shows the Centaur taking part in the battle, and surviving, fighting Cardassian ships and Jem'Hadar ships.
And Sisko was taking the fight seriously when he was in a JHAS and the Centaur was chasing them. Watch the episode. He's not goofing around and neither is the Centaur. It's really the same situation that prompted the Lakota to get the T5 treatment in STO.
There's no wiggling your way around this. The Centaur is an onscreen example of a Miranda "variant" that kicked major butt in the Dominion War. It's the same evidence Cryptic devs used to buff the heck out of the Lakota and make a T5 Excelsior the bees knees in this game.
I watched that episode prior to posting. The fight played out exactly as I stated. Sisko ran for the border instead of fighting a fellow captain. The Centaur got in a dozen or so unanswered shots, and still did no appreciable damage.
... but I have a soft spot in my heart for the Miranda, so I hope you'll forgive my enthusiasm whenever it comes up.
I don't expect to see a T5 Miranda. I won't cry any tears if the Devs were to say from on high "CBS says no," like what I've heard about the Constitution.
But the Miranda-class is my second-favorite ship in all of Trek, and I will fangasm over it at the slightest provocation.
Still... there is precedence for older ships to kick butt long, long after you'd think they'd reached their sell-by date. After all, I'm sure the Lakota has come up a half-dozen times in this thread by now at least. But when you consider all the factors involved in that incident... I think we can give late 23rd-century ship designs the benefit of the doubt here, right?
... I know, I know. The Excelsior's a special case, and its operational lifespan is legend in the setting. But who's to say that none of its contemporaries were able to bottle even a fraction of that lightning?
(Besides, you have the Kumari and D'kyr sitting pretty at T5, and they're both contemporaries of the old NX-class! ... but they also aren't Starfleet ships, so I won't belabor that point.)
Still, I'd like to reiterate that I neither expect, nor do I even intend to agitate all that hard for a T5 Miranda. Frankly, I'd rather see the effort put into the KDF... but when one of my favorites come up, I just can't help myself...
-- Winston Churchill