could it be possible to have either have different pve and pvp stats on the same ship adn shuttles. or be able to have a ship or shuttle set up for pve stats and second ship or shuttle set up for pvp stat and be change on the fly
how are would i be to change the game code for ship, shuttle and consoles have a set of stats set for pvp balanced. pve to be a over powered for story mission, and maybe a different stats for stf a middle ground between balanced and over powered.
If you read my first post I acknowledged the PvP issue - I have also said that this console need some kind of adjustment.
However, I don't think now is the right time with lots of new players and right after a massive expansion that is only just starting to get fixed in meaningful ways.
I have no doubt that this console will be adjusted - I Just know that when it happens mission failure rate will skyrocket, afking will skyrocket, PvE players who had this console will be crying foul - it is doing what it was advertized to do.
Add all that up if it happens in the summer its going to be very messy in the games pug Q's and a real firestorm on the forums.
The PvP player's reputation in this game is well known. You ask in-game why X skill, Y console, or Z doff got nerfed, and the answer is always PvP players. You reap what you sow, and here you go again. Another thing getting nerfed because the same small group of people spammed the heck out of one thread while the majority of players were fine with it. I feel sorry for players who supported this game with the LoR pack. I wish the same kind of energy was put to complaining about buffing back sci skills or fixing old annoying bugs, but all we get from you people is nerfs.
The PvP player's reputation in this game is well known. You ask in-game why X skill, Y console, or Z doff got nerfed, and the answer is always PvP players. You reap what you sow, and here you go again. Another thing getting nerfed because the same small group of people spammed the heck out of one thread while the majority of players were fine with it. I feel sorry for players who supported this game with the LoR pack. I wish the same kind of energy was put to complaining about buffing back sci skills or fixing old annoying bugs, but all we get from you people is nerfs.
/sigh
/deep breath
/sigh
/deep breath
Okay then...name a single thing that was nerfed because of the PvP community.
The PvE players reputation for blaming PvP players is well known. The reputation of certain PvE players thinking that they should be able to press their spacebar with their pinkytoe and save the Universe is well known.
The vast majority of the STO playerbase does not PvP. The PvP community does not hold any sort of atypical sway with Cryptic. The one advantage that the PvP community tends to have over the PvE community (in general, not as a whole) is honesty. The NPCs can't complain about something being broken. The PvE players using and enjoying those broken mechanics are generally not going to complain. The PvP player experiencing the receiving end of said mechanics will say something. They're the voice of the NPCs...something that any honest PvE player should be as well...but oddly enough, eh?
Cryptic has various guidelines for certain things. People should be able to complete X content in a certain amount of time, they should be able to farm Y of whatever in a certain amount of time, etc, etc, etc. Things are adjusted/tweaked when they cause that to go out of whack.
Likewise from the other side, with so many of the STO playerbase being very casual players...there are a lot of buffs required so they can feel "special"...which in turn can lead to the effect of other things having the feeling of being nerfed. Again, this is a PvE issue...not a PvP issue. Attempts from the PvP community to address this has generally been ignored...because once again, the majority of the STO playerbase are very casual PvE players.
Each time I see somebody complaining about the PvP community getting something nerfed, I picture somebody with a character named Admiral Derp that's flying the U.S.S. Short Bus. I'm sorry, I can't help it. It is what I see. That by no means suggests that all PvE players go around barefoot because even flip-flops present too much of an intellectual challenge...by no means am I suggesting that. There are a bunch of PvE folks that have more than a clue as to what they're doing and they do it very well.
There are a lot of folks over in the PvE community that have invested heavily in learning the game mechanics, working with builds, coming up with strategies/tactics. Rather than trying to exploit the shortcut route to feeling special, more folks in the PvE community should take a gander at what those guys have to offer. Improve their gameplay, have more fun, and stop trying to scapegoat the PvP community when the reality of the situation bruises their egos...
I think this is definitely necessary no matter what we do with the Valdore console. Overhealing should not be helping people score higher in FEs, which it appears it may be doing.
Ideally, for FE scoring, all players should feel like they have a chance at first place if they're playing well and using their abilities optimally. That's not the case right now (and not all FEs are consistent in their scoring mechanics, though I believe that all FEs do, in fact, give at least some points for healing). This is something we're looking at that's clearly separate from the Valdore console issue, but has had a bright light shone on it by the feedback on the console.
this is more then just an over healing scoreboard number issue. a 1000-5000 shield heal every 3 or so seconds, and a larger over capacity shield full heal every 10 or so seconds is a much greater concern. thats out of control.
That screen shot really doesn't say much of anything. If its 1.69999 overheal then its not really very useful at all.
How much is effective healing? How often do the heals proc? How streaky are the procs? These are all data points that need to be known in order to determine the real power of the console, and yet there seems to be a lack of real data on it.
The proc should probably be mirrored more on how weapon proc debuffs work, probably with a set heal percentage, so it scales with level. Weapons have such a large range of damage outputs, that seems to create situations where basing the proc on damage dealt is an issue. Its pathetic is it comes from a Turret hit, and massive overkill if it comes from a Beam Overload crit.
An internal cooldown is a bad idea without making changes to the streakiness of procs, because you can lose procs during the ICD window, and then have a dead streak following it, making it annoyingly RNG, and possibly borderline useless.
The PvP player's reputation in this game is well known. You ask in-game why X skill, Y console, or Z doff got nerfed, and the answer is always PvP players. You reap what you sow, and here you go again. Another thing getting nerfed because the same small group of people spammed the heck out of one thread while the majority of players were fine with it. I feel sorry for players who supported this game with the LoR pack. I wish the same kind of energy was put to complaining about buffing back sci skills or fixing old annoying bugs, but all we get from you people is nerfs.
Don't kid yourself. Most of the "nerfs" to defensive boosting powers were either bugs being fixed or nerfs so Cryptic could sell other defensive buffs in an upcoming release. The power creep in this game has hardly been slowed.
Maco shield bug resists: bug
Jem Shield bug auto procing bfi doffs: bug
Fleet shields: not touched, edit they were touched but nothing noticable since it's still easy to max resists w/these things.
Borg regen nerfed right b4 Rep Passive and Rep Regen came out:
Rep Regen: bug
Field Gen: Changed to add skill points, then changed back after crying, people cried when diminishing returns after revert even though it never stacked b4 skill tree change
Ship shield modifiers buffed across the board:
Ship shield HP values buffed across the board
Most of the offensive nerfs were b/c of abuse by pve grinders abusing them.
Tric mines: tbh not sure how this is considered a nerf in pve, since it has the same dps w/more stuns
BO w/power doffs: not touched
Aux2batt: not touched
AP reducing doffs: not touched
CritH and other buffs added to rep system
There's also the never ending power creep of new lotto/zen ships.
Lobi store ships etc.
Rom Boffs.
Shared cooldown removals of things like PH and HE/Aux2batt EPtX.
Btw, they sell sci powers now in the form of doffs, consoles, ship abilities, and pets. Buffing sci boff powers would undermine their p2w power creep model.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Okay then...name a single thing that was nerfed because of the PvP community.
The PvE players reputation for blaming PvP players is well known. The reputation of certain PvE players thinking that they should be able to press their spacebar with their pinkytoe and save the Universe is well known.
Fine, a couple of Google searches should yield some examples. And no, most PvE players are not of the space bar variety. NWS would be impossible to complete if that was the case.
Fine, a couple of Google searches should yield some examples. And no, most PvE players are not of the space bar variety. NWS would be impossible to complete if that was the case.
It should be impossible to complete, it's in the title ...
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Fine, a couple of Google searches should yield some examples. And no, most PvE players are not of the space bar variety. NWS would be impossible to complete if that was the case.
Suggesting I search Google...is not providing a single item that was nerfed because of the PvP community. Seeing that it is so simple as a Google search, go ahead and provide one.
The majority of players in the PvE community could not do NWS. Many of the people that got their accolades did so exploiting broken systems. Remember the NWS spam when TBR was broken because of the Part Gens math?
Again, it is not a case of saying that everybody in the PvE community lacks skill, knowledge, etc, etc, etc. But, STO is a very casual game. There is no denying that. If it were not, it would not be thriving as it is. Consider the recent changes to Devil's Choice, eh? Consider the upcoming changes for Crystalline Catastrophe Elite? Cryptic knows who makes up the majority of their playerbase...they try to cater to them at every opportunity. Doesn't mean there are not things that simply are not working as intended that they will address and tweak/adjust as necessary.
Viral Matrix launches a probe that flies to the target and then shuts down its systems, effectively holding it in place. The target is highly resistant to holds for a short duration after this effect expires.
April 19th, 2010:
Viral Matrix has had its duration improved. A small amount of this increase in duration is on the base duration, but most of it is from application of the associated skill.
April 29th, 2010:
Viral Matrix has been updated: Instead of a hold, Viral Matrix now takes three subsystems offline in a staggered duration. The best case duration for a subsystem being offline is approx 7.2, 9.6, and 12 seconds for versions I, II,III respectively. The subsystems affected are Weapons, Engines, and Auxiliary. The order that the subsystems go offline is determined randomly upon each use. Engineering Team will repair subsystems that are offline.
December 21st, 2011:
Systems Engineer (Space): Viral Matrix has a chance to shut down additional subsystems after 30 sec.
October 10th, 2012:
The shared cooldown between Viral Matrix and Scramble Sensors has been removed.
November 21st, 2012:
The Viral Matrix debuff can now be cleared by Engineering Team. Previously, this only cured the individual systems that were knocked offline.
November 21st, 2012:
Systems Engineer (Space): Viral Matrix has a chance to spread to other nearby enemies.
February 14th, 2013:
Engineering Team will now completely cleanse all effects caused by Viral Matrix.
May 21st, 2013:
The firing arcs of each of the following Abilities have been increased from 90-degrees to 135-degrees: Viral Matrix
Fine, feedback, please be gentle with nerfing the console. If it has to be per volley instead of per shot, fine. If it heals based on a crit, then the guy was lucky, good for him, shouldn't be penalized (Here I say leave it alone). Now if you tighten the % range of the heal, leave the rest of its current behavior alone. Nerfing everything or two of these would make me think twice before spending $$$ on anything in this game again.
I would prefer it being left alone, but I know that probably wont happen so there you go, feedback.
Fine, feedback, please be gentle with nerfing the console. If it has to be per volley instead of per shot, fine. If it heals based on a crit, then the guy was lucky, good for him, shouln't be penalized (Here I say leave it alone). Now if you tighten the % range of the heal, leave the rest of its behavior alone. Nerfing everything or two of these would make me think twice before spending $$$ on anything in this game again.
That's kind of the thing - the stuff you linked, yeah - I got a chuckle out of those posts. They reminded me of the Devil's Choice threads...which caused me to pull some hair out and smoke more.
There is a definite difference between asking something to be adjusted/tweaked and the cries for nerfs. I believe I even said something along those lines in one of the Valdore threads - yes, it needs tweaking...but folks have to be careful cause Cryptic tends to be heavy handed.
That's one of the good things, imho, about what Archon said...that in perusing it, that it was more of a middleground approach rather than grabbing the 2x4 with nails in and beating the console to a pulp.
Personally, I think balance adjustments are just that...adjustments...a series of adjustments. It's not just wham, bam, and done with it. It is an ongoing review process.
So say they make the change to per cycle rather than per shot. Okay then, doesn't mean that it is a case of forgetting about it. Need to see if it is actually doing enough with it being per cycle. Might need to be tweaked up at that point, etc, etc, etc.
Note, we will never intentionally (and I and very particular when I say ?never?) nerf an item/power that was paid for with money without very good reason and without letting you know (believe me, there are plenty I would love to take a wack at beside the Aceton Assimilators).
sci skills are the way they are because of the current skill tree. pvp'ers have been calling for a buff to most of the sci skills ever since.
and every time there has been an adjustment to skills, theres a pve reason behind it for every single one i can think of, or it came completely out of nowhere.
the console needs significant magnitude reductions in multiple areas, its not slightly to good.
The guy claiming PvP got Viral Matrix nerfed gave me a good laugh. I guess PvP got the VM-spreading lockbox DOffs reverted too, oh wait.
The only PvP-related changes I can even remember happening in almost two years were the one to phasers (zero effect on PvE) and the one to trike mines (begged the devs to look at this for months and they only took action once a popular video of some PvE players exploiting their strength made the rounds).
He also seems pretty confused since Sci abilities are hit-and-miss (and always have been by design, and they suffer from power creep not balance patches that come once in a blue moon) while Sci captains and their powers are very strong, arguably the strongest in the game.
......and yes players perception of Cryptic - especially new loR players - IS - a major consideration. This IS a business!
You know what would've looked even better for the new customers? If this thing had been tested and adjusted properly BEFORE getting released. But its Cryptic so we just laugh it off and make a fuzz until it get looked at.
HOW they missed this is beyond me, don't they have at least ONE person that looks over all the high end shinies that are used as carrots? Stuff like consoles and flamethrowers?
The PvP player's reputation in this game is well known. You ask in-game why X skill, Y console, or Z doff got nerfed, and the answer is always PvP players. You reap what you sow, and here you go again. Another thing getting nerfed because the same small group of people spammed the heck out of one thread while the majority of players were fine with it. I feel sorry for players who supported this game with the LoR pack. I wish the same kind of energy was put to complaining about buffing back sci skills or fixing old annoying bugs, but all we get from you people is nerfs.
This.
Science skills were nerfed to suit pvp just like the tricobalt mines, but the problem is that PVE , especially elite stf npcs have such a high resistance to them that they make most science powers useless.
And then there is this horrible EPTE with the spheres and raptors, who can fly out of a gravity well or a tractor beam without problems. Now I dont mind if they are a bit stronger, but could they not get like EPTS or something less annoying like that?
Which basically puts an even bigger useless on science powers, and tactical area of effect powers too like Scatter volley.
Now if the borg were less sci-resistant, or GW were more powerful, these superspeed spheres could be trapped by Sci for other players to shoot.
Mind, even if nerfed, I'm still happy with the Valdore, it just looks that nice.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
The guy claiming PvP got Viral Matrix nerfed gave me a good laugh. I guess PvP got the VM-spreading lockbox DOffs reverted too, oh wait.
PvE heroes think its normal to stop an entire team with 1 click on 1 power( vm with spread doff).They also think Godmode is fair and paying for broken stuffs is also fair .Also is fair to grind 6 months for a build and one update/expansion to make your 6 months worth of grind useless.
this is more then just an over healing scoreboard number issue. a 1000-5000 shield heal every 3 or so seconds, and a larger over capacity shield full heal every 10 or so seconds is a much greater concern. thats out of control.
Could you post a parse of this? Because it doesn't align with what I'm seeing. Neither Beams nor DHC/Turrets produce a proc rate above 2.5% in the tests I've seen. So if you are managing a proc rate beyond 2.5 that is another bug which needs to be addressed before any eventual adjustments to the effectiveness of the console can be evaluated.
Beyond that, the one which definitely needs to be adjusted is the lack of correlation between maximum hit and shield heals, they don't align up suggesting there is something affecting the magnitude of the Shield Proc. This needs to be addressed before any eventual adjustments to the effectiveness of the console can be evaluated.
Could you post a parse of this? Because it doesn't align with what I'm seeing. Neither Beams nor DHC/Turrets produce a proc rate above 2.5% in the tests I've seen. So if you are managing a proc rate beyond 2.5 that is another bug which needs to be addressed before any eventual adjustments to the effectiveness of the console can be evaluated.
He's not suggesting that there is a proc rate above 2.5%, but rather that the proc is not per cycle - it is per shot.
A "typical" 3 DHC/1 DBB/3 Turret with a 2.5% proc would have an overall probability of at least one proc during a 15s period of...56.6% (33 cycles)
A "typical" 8 Array with a 2.5% proc would have an overall probability of at least one proc during a 15s period of...45.5% (24 cycles)
Instead, the DHC/DBB/Turret boat is seeing...92.4% (102 shots)
Instead, the Array boat is seeing...91.2% (96 shots)
Were you just to look at the first 3s period...
DHC/DBB/Turret Boat: 16.2% (7 Cycles) vs. 41.2% (21 Shots)
Array Boat: 18.3% (8 Cycles) vs. 45.5% (24 Shots)
Proc Rate is still 2.5%...but look at what happens to the Probability if it is per Shot instead of per Cycle.
Beyond that, the one which definitely needs to be adjusted is the lack of correlation between maximum hit and shield heals, they don't align up suggesting there is something affecting the magnitude of the Shield Proc. This needs to be addressed before any eventual adjustments to the effectiveness of the console can be evaluated.
This is something that has been mentioned in some of the other threads, but I don't think anybody has been able to lockdown what in particular is causing that issue to arise. Folks could perhaps look at posting their builds and taking a look at the various commonalities they share for those experiencing the phenomenon.
my initial thoughts on the console as it is was that maybe it belonged on only the t5 d'deridex rather than the valdore/mogai or any other warbird for that matter. that was taking in to account mogai being more escort like and d'deridex being a slow moving tankish cruiser.
the console is good, it doesnt heal when u want. It heals at random.
This cannot be emphasised enough. One side keeps screaming OMG 1.7million heals, NERF IT! But im still pressing EPtS and TSS just as regularly if i dont want to be space dust. For staying alive the console is nigh on useless as it is, the only thing its good for is reliably getting 1st place in CE, and the best you can hope to get from that is a worthless piece of mk x gear. Hardly worth the bother since survivability wise, slotting an additional armour console or one of those increased shield capacity ones would do more help than this supposedly op valdore console. If anything, it needs a buff to be worth slotting in endgame, not a nerf.
This cannot be emphasised enough. One side keeps screaming OMG 1.7million heals, NERF IT! But im still pressing EPtS and TSS just as regularly if i dont want to be space dust. For staying alive the console is nigh on useless as it is, the only thing its good for is reliably getting 1st place in CE, and the best you can hope to get from that is a worthless piece of mk x gear. Hardly worth the bother since survivability wise, slotting an additional armour console or one of those increased shield capacity ones would do more help than this supposedly op valdore console. If anything, it needs a buff to be worth slotting in endgame, not a nerf.
You're really looking at this wrong. A single console shouldn't be capable of keeping a person alive by itself. At present, when the procs favor you, this absolutely can.
That's a serious balance problem in and of itself, but it is far from the only issue.
What happens when we combine this console with pre-existing buffs and heals? What happens when players who know the idiosyncracies of the STO combat engine tack on a recurring heal to overly buffed shield resistances and high capacity shields?
You get situations where barring absurd amounts of spike damage a ship can effectively be impervious to harm.
That's the bigger problem. I don't think anyone is unaware of how hard this console can whiff. The issue at hand is that when it hits, it more than makes up for the whiffage. What needs to be teased out is whether that's the result of some incorrect functionality (such as procs not logically synching with damage tallies), or whether the current design of the proc itself is the cause.
At present there are valid arguments to be made for it being a combination of both causes.
You're really looking at this wrong. A single console shouldn't be capable of keeping a person alive by itself. At present, when the procs favor you, this absolutely can.
When it favours you being the key here. A lot of things need to go right in order for this to save you. You need to be firing at somebody else, you need to proc, and if you want a significant heal you absolutely need to proc on a critical hit. A 500point heal will stop a DHC barrage for all about .25 of a second and the borg for even less than.
That's a serious balance problem in and of itself, but it is far from the only issue.
What happens when we combine this console with pre-existing buffs and heals? What happens when players who know the idiosyncracies of the STO combat engine tack on a recurring heal to overly buffed shield resistances and high capacity shields?
You get situations where barring absurd amounts of spike damage a ship can effectively be impervious to harm.
You're only adding a minor if somewhat continuous heal with no resistances on top of it. It has been pointed out in other threads about this that the real asset in survivability is energy resistance which this doesn't add to my knowledge. If my weapons only do 25% of normal damage due to stacked resistances, a random minor to major heal thrown in once in a while isnt upsetting the balance all that much. Not that this effects a large portions of players anyway.
That's the bigger problem. I don't think anyone is unaware of how hard this console can whiff. The issue at hand is that when it hits, it more than makes up for the whiffage. What needs to be teased out is whether that's the result of some incorrect functionality (such as procs not logically synching with damage tallies), or whether the current design of the proc itself is the cause.
At present there are valid arguments to be made for it being a combination of both causes.
If it hits when you're at full shields anyway it doesn't really make up for all those times when you are left with no shields and it doesnt hit or even when it cant hit because you're too busy running away. Now if it would continuously proc for a full heal every time you lost shields then we would have a problem, but i really haven't seen that happening. Yes, sometimes you are lucky and it hits at just the right time and on just the right shot to get you that big heal (and if youre doing pvp at the time, the other guy is likely to notice and cry hax), but most of the time it acts as a slightly better always on shield regen. Not that helpful against a well timed alpha, not really that helpful against the borg and the same when you're taking on a couple of negh'var and raptors in sb24.
I do own it, but i removed it from my rom escort since it wasnt really all that helpful and im yet to level an engi romulan to 50 so i dont know how it will perform there but im guessing not all that well.
When it favours you being the key here. A lot of things need to go right in order for this to save you. You need to be firing at somebody else, you need to proc, and if you want a significant heal you absolutely need to proc on a critical hit. A 500point heal will stop a DHC barrage for all about .25 of a second and the borg for even less than.
You absolutely don't need to proc on a crit. A plain jane unbuffed DHC is going to hit for roughly 1.5-2k. That's a 3-4k heal. Crit that and you're looking at potentially a 9k+ heal. And that's before buffs come into the equation.
Secondly, piddly heals are the price you pay for rolling the dice. That's what the opportunity cost has to be for this console. Yes it can save your TRIBBLE sometimes, but at the same time it has to be able to fizzle and get you killed. Without that tradeoff it's just too strong. With no limit on how often this console can proc, there is no such tradeoff at present.
You're only adding a minor if somewhat continuous heal with no resistances on top of it. It has been pointed out in other threads about this that the real asset in survivability is energy resistance which this doesn't add to my knowledge. If my weapons only do 25% of normal damage due to stacked resistances, a random minor to major heal thrown in once in a while isnt upsetting the balance all that much. Not that this effects a large portions of players anyway.
In the PvE realm, the only time energy weapons run into serious resistances is against the CE. Even then I've readily seen heals in the 8-10k+ range. Compound that with the large number of -res abilities and weapons out there, and you easily see how NPC resists aren't an obstacle at all.
Secondly, the current tradeoff in self shield heals is healing versus resistance boosts. Adding in not-minor heals (yes, this console does more than minorly heal) on top of abilities built specifically to harden, not heal, blows that dichotocmy completely out of the water.
If it hits when you're at full shields anyway it doesn't really make up for all those times when you are left with no shields and it doesnt hit or even when it cant hit because you're too busy running away. Now if it would continuously proc for a full heal every time you lost shields then we would have a problem, but i really haven't seen that happening. Yes, sometimes you are lucky and it hits at just the right time and on just the right shot to get you that big heal (and if youre doing pvp at the time, the other guy is likely to notice and cry hax), but most of the time it acts as a slightly better always on shield regen. Not that helpful against a well timed alpha, not really that helpful against the borg and the same when you're taking on a couple of negh'var and raptors in sb24.
I do own it, but i removed it from my rom escort since it wasnt really all that helpful and im yet to level an engi romulan to 50 so i dont know how it will perform there but im guessing not all that well.
You've completely missed the point. Overhealing while at full shields is entirely irrelevant to this console's capacity to surpass any pre-existing shield heal by a large margin and without a cooldown.
Since you clearly didn't understand it the first time:
Comments
how are would i be to change the game code for ship, shuttle and consoles have a set of stats set for pvp balanced. pve to be a over powered for story mission, and maybe a different stats for stf a middle ground between balanced and over powered.
Now you're just being silly.
www.divisionhispana.com
http://www.gods-inc.de/shieldproc.jpg
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
/sigh
/deep breath
/sigh
/deep breath
Okay then...name a single thing that was nerfed because of the PvP community.
The PvE players reputation for blaming PvP players is well known. The reputation of certain PvE players thinking that they should be able to press their spacebar with their pinkytoe and save the Universe is well known.
The vast majority of the STO playerbase does not PvP. The PvP community does not hold any sort of atypical sway with Cryptic. The one advantage that the PvP community tends to have over the PvE community (in general, not as a whole) is honesty. The NPCs can't complain about something being broken. The PvE players using and enjoying those broken mechanics are generally not going to complain. The PvP player experiencing the receiving end of said mechanics will say something. They're the voice of the NPCs...something that any honest PvE player should be as well...but oddly enough, eh?
Cryptic has various guidelines for certain things. People should be able to complete X content in a certain amount of time, they should be able to farm Y of whatever in a certain amount of time, etc, etc, etc. Things are adjusted/tweaked when they cause that to go out of whack.
Likewise from the other side, with so many of the STO playerbase being very casual players...there are a lot of buffs required so they can feel "special"...which in turn can lead to the effect of other things having the feeling of being nerfed. Again, this is a PvE issue...not a PvP issue. Attempts from the PvP community to address this has generally been ignored...because once again, the majority of the STO playerbase are very casual PvE players.
Each time I see somebody complaining about the PvP community getting something nerfed, I picture somebody with a character named Admiral Derp that's flying the U.S.S. Short Bus. I'm sorry, I can't help it. It is what I see. That by no means suggests that all PvE players go around barefoot because even flip-flops present too much of an intellectual challenge...by no means am I suggesting that. There are a bunch of PvE folks that have more than a clue as to what they're doing and they do it very well.
There are a lot of folks over in the PvE community that have invested heavily in learning the game mechanics, working with builds, coming up with strategies/tactics. Rather than trying to exploit the shortcut route to feeling special, more folks in the PvE community should take a gander at what those guys have to offer. Improve their gameplay, have more fun, and stop trying to scapegoat the PvP community when the reality of the situation bruises their egos...
this is more then just an over healing scoreboard number issue. a 1000-5000 shield heal every 3 or so seconds, and a larger over capacity shield full heal every 10 or so seconds is a much greater concern. thats out of control.
That screen shot really doesn't say much of anything. If its 1.69999 overheal then its not really very useful at all.
How much is effective healing? How often do the heals proc? How streaky are the procs? These are all data points that need to be known in order to determine the real power of the console, and yet there seems to be a lack of real data on it.
The proc should probably be mirrored more on how weapon proc debuffs work, probably with a set heal percentage, so it scales with level. Weapons have such a large range of damage outputs, that seems to create situations where basing the proc on damage dealt is an issue. Its pathetic is it comes from a Turret hit, and massive overkill if it comes from a Beam Overload crit.
An internal cooldown is a bad idea without making changes to the streakiness of procs, because you can lose procs during the ICD window, and then have a dead streak following it, making it annoyingly RNG, and possibly borderline useless.
Don't kid yourself. Most of the "nerfs" to defensive boosting powers were either bugs being fixed or nerfs so Cryptic could sell other defensive buffs in an upcoming release. The power creep in this game has hardly been slowed.
Maco shield bug resists: bug
Jem Shield bug auto procing bfi doffs: bug
Fleet shields: not touched, edit they were touched but nothing noticable since it's still easy to max resists w/these things.
Borg regen nerfed right b4 Rep Passive and Rep Regen came out:
Rep Regen: bug
Field Gen: Changed to add skill points, then changed back after crying, people cried when diminishing returns after revert even though it never stacked b4 skill tree change
Ship shield modifiers buffed across the board:
Ship shield HP values buffed across the board
Most of the offensive nerfs were b/c of abuse by pve grinders abusing them.
Tric mines: tbh not sure how this is considered a nerf in pve, since it has the same dps w/more stuns
BO w/power doffs: not touched
Aux2batt: not touched
AP reducing doffs: not touched
CritH and other buffs added to rep system
There's also the never ending power creep of new lotto/zen ships.
Lobi store ships etc.
Rom Boffs.
Shared cooldown removals of things like PH and HE/Aux2batt EPtX.
Btw, they sell sci powers now in the form of doffs, consoles, ship abilities, and pets. Buffing sci boff powers would undermine their p2w power creep model.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Fine, a couple of Google searches should yield some examples. And no, most PvE players are not of the space bar variety. NWS would be impossible to complete if that was the case.
It should be impossible to complete, it's in the title ...
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Suggesting I search Google...is not providing a single item that was nerfed because of the PvP community. Seeing that it is so simple as a Google search, go ahead and provide one.
The majority of players in the PvE community could not do NWS. Many of the people that got their accolades did so exploiting broken systems. Remember the NWS spam when TBR was broken because of the Part Gens math?
Again, it is not a case of saying that everybody in the PvE community lacks skill, knowledge, etc, etc, etc. But, STO is a very casual game. There is no denying that. If it were not, it would not be thriving as it is. Consider the recent changes to Devil's Choice, eh? Consider the upcoming changes for Crystalline Catastrophe Elite? Cryptic knows who makes up the majority of their playerbase...they try to cater to them at every opportunity. Doesn't mean there are not things that simply are not working as intended that they will address and tweak/adjust as necessary.
Please nerf Viral Matrix:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=131673
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=111236
Result: Sci skill nerfed.
Nerf GW and SS (and the thread goes on asking for other sci skill nerfs)
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=198791
Sufficely to say, it seems your group hates Sci captains. Then you lament when GW gets turned to junk.
Originally:
Viral Matrix launches a probe that flies to the target and then shuts down its systems, effectively holding it in place. The target is highly resistant to holds for a short duration after this effect expires.
April 19th, 2010:
Viral Matrix has had its duration improved. A small amount of this increase in duration is on the base duration, but most of it is from application of the associated skill.
April 29th, 2010:
Viral Matrix has been updated: Instead of a hold, Viral Matrix now takes three subsystems offline in a staggered duration. The best case duration for a subsystem being offline is approx 7.2, 9.6, and 12 seconds for versions I, II,III respectively. The subsystems affected are Weapons, Engines, and Auxiliary. The order that the subsystems go offline is determined randomly upon each use. Engineering Team will repair subsystems that are offline.
December 21st, 2011:
Systems Engineer (Space): Viral Matrix has a chance to shut down additional subsystems after 30 sec.
October 10th, 2012:
The shared cooldown between Viral Matrix and Scramble Sensors has been removed.
November 21st, 2012:
The Viral Matrix debuff can now be cleared by Engineering Team. Previously, this only cured the individual systems that were knocked offline.
November 21st, 2012:
Systems Engineer (Space): Viral Matrix has a chance to spread to other nearby enemies.
February 14th, 2013:
Engineering Team will now completely cleanse all effects caused by Viral Matrix.
May 21st, 2013:
The firing arcs of each of the following Abilities have been increased from 90-degrees to 135-degrees: Viral Matrix
I would prefer it being left alone, but I know that probably wont happen so there you go, feedback.
That's kind of the thing - the stuff you linked, yeah - I got a chuckle out of those posts. They reminded me of the Devil's Choice threads...which caused me to pull some hair out and smoke more.
There is a definite difference between asking something to be adjusted/tweaked and the cries for nerfs. I believe I even said something along those lines in one of the Valdore threads - yes, it needs tweaking...but folks have to be careful cause Cryptic tends to be heavy handed.
That's one of the good things, imho, about what Archon said...that in perusing it, that it was more of a middleground approach rather than grabbing the 2x4 with nails in and beating the console to a pulp.
Personally, I think balance adjustments are just that...adjustments...a series of adjustments. It's not just wham, bam, and done with it. It is an ongoing review process.
So say they make the change to per cycle rather than per shot. Okay then, doesn't mean that it is a case of forgetting about it. Need to see if it is actually doing enough with it being per cycle. Might need to be tweaked up at that point, etc, etc, etc.
These two quotes...
...come to mind when thinking about the Valdore console.
It's not the same as an ability and it is unlikely that they would treat it like any change to an ability.
and every time there has been an adjustment to skills, theres a pve reason behind it for every single one i can think of, or it came completely out of nowhere.
the console needs significant magnitude reductions in multiple areas, its not slightly to good.
The only PvP-related changes I can even remember happening in almost two years were the one to phasers (zero effect on PvE) and the one to trike mines (begged the devs to look at this for months and they only took action once a popular video of some PvE players exploiting their strength made the rounds).
He also seems pretty confused since Sci abilities are hit-and-miss (and always have been by design, and they suffer from power creep not balance patches that come once in a blue moon) while Sci captains and their powers are very strong, arguably the strongest in the game.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
You know what would've looked even better for the new customers? If this thing had been tested and adjusted properly BEFORE getting released. But its Cryptic so we just laugh it off and make a fuzz until it get looked at.
HOW they missed this is beyond me, don't they have at least ONE person that looks over all the high end shinies that are used as carrots? Stuff like consoles and flamethrowers?
This.
Science skills were nerfed to suit pvp just like the tricobalt mines, but the problem is that PVE , especially elite stf npcs have such a high resistance to them that they make most science powers useless.
And then there is this horrible EPTE with the spheres and raptors, who can fly out of a gravity well or a tractor beam without problems. Now I dont mind if they are a bit stronger, but could they not get like EPTS or something less annoying like that?
Which basically puts an even bigger useless on science powers, and tactical area of effect powers too like Scatter volley.
Now if the borg were less sci-resistant, or GW were more powerful, these superspeed spheres could be trapped by Sci for other players to shoot.
Mind, even if nerfed, I'm still happy with the Valdore, it just looks that nice.
PvE heroes think its normal to stop an entire team with 1 click on 1 power( vm with spread doff).They also think Godmode is fair and paying for broken stuffs is also fair .Also is fair to grind 6 months for a build and one update/expansion to make your 6 months worth of grind useless.
Could you post a parse of this? Because it doesn't align with what I'm seeing. Neither Beams nor DHC/Turrets produce a proc rate above 2.5% in the tests I've seen. So if you are managing a proc rate beyond 2.5 that is another bug which needs to be addressed before any eventual adjustments to the effectiveness of the console can be evaluated.
Beyond that, the one which definitely needs to be adjusted is the lack of correlation between maximum hit and shield heals, they don't align up suggesting there is something affecting the magnitude of the Shield Proc. This needs to be addressed before any eventual adjustments to the effectiveness of the console can be evaluated.
He's not suggesting that there is a proc rate above 2.5%, but rather that the proc is not per cycle - it is per shot.
A "typical" 3 DHC/1 DBB/3 Turret with a 2.5% proc would have an overall probability of at least one proc during a 15s period of...56.6% (33 cycles)
A "typical" 8 Array with a 2.5% proc would have an overall probability of at least one proc during a 15s period of...45.5% (24 cycles)
Instead, the DHC/DBB/Turret boat is seeing...92.4% (102 shots)
Instead, the Array boat is seeing...91.2% (96 shots)
Were you just to look at the first 3s period...
DHC/DBB/Turret Boat: 16.2% (7 Cycles) vs. 41.2% (21 Shots)
Array Boat: 18.3% (8 Cycles) vs. 45.5% (24 Shots)
Proc Rate is still 2.5%...but look at what happens to the Probability if it is per Shot instead of per Cycle.
This is something that has been mentioned in some of the other threads, but I don't think anybody has been able to lockdown what in particular is causing that issue to arise. Folks could perhaps look at posting their builds and taking a look at the various commonalities they share for those experiencing the phenomenon.
It heals at random. maybe 200% is pretty high.
probably get it to 150% will be fine
This cannot be emphasised enough. One side keeps screaming OMG 1.7million heals, NERF IT! But im still pressing EPtS and TSS just as regularly if i dont want to be space dust. For staying alive the console is nigh on useless as it is, the only thing its good for is reliably getting 1st place in CE, and the best you can hope to get from that is a worthless piece of mk x gear. Hardly worth the bother since survivability wise, slotting an additional armour console or one of those increased shield capacity ones would do more help than this supposedly op valdore console. If anything, it needs a buff to be worth slotting in endgame, not a nerf.
You're really looking at this wrong. A single console shouldn't be capable of keeping a person alive by itself. At present, when the procs favor you, this absolutely can.
That's a serious balance problem in and of itself, but it is far from the only issue.
What happens when we combine this console with pre-existing buffs and heals? What happens when players who know the idiosyncracies of the STO combat engine tack on a recurring heal to overly buffed shield resistances and high capacity shields?
You get situations where barring absurd amounts of spike damage a ship can effectively be impervious to harm.
That's the bigger problem. I don't think anyone is unaware of how hard this console can whiff. The issue at hand is that when it hits, it more than makes up for the whiffage. What needs to be teased out is whether that's the result of some incorrect functionality (such as procs not logically synching with damage tallies), or whether the current design of the proc itself is the cause.
At present there are valid arguments to be made for it being a combination of both causes.
When it favours you being the key here. A lot of things need to go right in order for this to save you. You need to be firing at somebody else, you need to proc, and if you want a significant heal you absolutely need to proc on a critical hit. A 500point heal will stop a DHC barrage for all about .25 of a second and the borg for even less than.
You're only adding a minor if somewhat continuous heal with no resistances on top of it. It has been pointed out in other threads about this that the real asset in survivability is energy resistance which this doesn't add to my knowledge. If my weapons only do 25% of normal damage due to stacked resistances, a random minor to major heal thrown in once in a while isnt upsetting the balance all that much. Not that this effects a large portions of players anyway.
If it hits when you're at full shields anyway it doesn't really make up for all those times when you are left with no shields and it doesnt hit or even when it cant hit because you're too busy running away. Now if it would continuously proc for a full heal every time you lost shields then we would have a problem, but i really haven't seen that happening. Yes, sometimes you are lucky and it hits at just the right time and on just the right shot to get you that big heal (and if youre doing pvp at the time, the other guy is likely to notice and cry hax), but most of the time it acts as a slightly better always on shield regen. Not that helpful against a well timed alpha, not really that helpful against the borg and the same when you're taking on a couple of negh'var and raptors in sb24.
I do own it, but i removed it from my rom escort since it wasnt really all that helpful and im yet to level an engi romulan to 50 so i dont know how it will perform there but im guessing not all that well.
You absolutely don't need to proc on a crit. A plain jane unbuffed DHC is going to hit for roughly 1.5-2k. That's a 3-4k heal. Crit that and you're looking at potentially a 9k+ heal. And that's before buffs come into the equation.
Secondly, piddly heals are the price you pay for rolling the dice. That's what the opportunity cost has to be for this console. Yes it can save your TRIBBLE sometimes, but at the same time it has to be able to fizzle and get you killed. Without that tradeoff it's just too strong. With no limit on how often this console can proc, there is no such tradeoff at present.
In the PvE realm, the only time energy weapons run into serious resistances is against the CE. Even then I've readily seen heals in the 8-10k+ range. Compound that with the large number of -res abilities and weapons out there, and you easily see how NPC resists aren't an obstacle at all.
Secondly, the current tradeoff in self shield heals is healing versus resistance boosts. Adding in not-minor heals (yes, this console does more than minorly heal) on top of abilities built specifically to harden, not heal, blows that dichotocmy completely out of the water.
You've completely missed the point. Overhealing while at full shields is entirely irrelevant to this console's capacity to surpass any pre-existing shield heal by a large margin and without a cooldown.
Since you clearly didn't understand it the first time: