Science skills were nerfed to suit pvp just like the tricobalt mines,
The truth is that the "PvP community" wanted one, and only one, fix related to tric mines. It was the "one crit they all crit" mechanic. It created a dispersal pattern of 4 mines which would each crit for far beyond what any ship with maxed resistances could survive. In response, changes were made to the mines as well as the torps far beyond what anybody was asking for. However, all some people know is that "PvP'ers complained and tric mines got nerfed." The P/E cultural divide widens.
Here, we have some people angry that "PvP'ers want a nerf." Well the devil's in the details my lovelies. In this case, the devil's in the diction. Specifically, the choice of the word nerf over bug fix.
In an attempt to find a common vocabulary I consulted Urban Dictionary.
nerf - To make worse or weaken, usually in the context of weakening something in order to balance out a game. Why the hell did Blizzard nerf Marines' attack damage?
bugfix - The act of replacing a very small TRIBBLE with a much larger, yet far less functional TRIBBLE. Hey, honey, that's a tiny TRIBBLE, maybe you should get a bugfix. I mean, you don't know how to use it anyway, right?
Alright so that second one wasn't so helpful, maybe I'll just go with their definition of bug.
bug - A fault in a computer system or any physical entity including humanoids. I have been pwnz0red by a bug and am not well.
Ok that's a little better. Now, the description of Absorptive Frequency Generator (not to be confused with the Adaptive Frequency Generator, which will be released at a later date I guess) says that it provides a heal for 200% of the damage done. In fact it provides heals wildly above 200% of the damage done. Changes made would be to correct a fault, not to weaken something that is working as intended in order to balance the game.
Continuing to refer to these changes as a nerf is dishonest and will only foment discord and hinder a reasonable balance discussion in the future once it is actually working as intended.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
The guy claiming PvP got Viral Matrix nerfed gave me a good laugh. I guess PvP got the VM-spreading lockbox DOffs reverted too, oh wait.
The only PvP-related changes I can even remember happening in almost two years were the one to phasers (zero effect on PvE) and the one to trike mines (begged the devs to look at this for months and they only took action once a popular video of some PvE players exploiting their strength made the rounds).
He also seems pretty confused since Sci abilities are hit-and-miss (and always have been by design, and they suffer from power creep not balance patches that come once in a blue moon) while Sci captains and their powers are very strong, arguably the strongest in the game.
If this were true, you'd see way more sci captains. A lot of the non-healing sci skills are a joke. The PvP forums are filled with dumb, I can't figure how to counter it so it must be OP threads (the subnuc doff is a recent example). Most requests for nerfs come from PvP because it's the only place players get to interact with others. The only slight annoyance (and it's fine with me) outside of PvP are borg spheres using EPtE and scattering like roaches. By the way, disabling weapons=console doesn't work. You PvP guys are all experts on quick kills, you should be able to take down a ship by disabling weapons and firing away.
By the way, on the other posts I've read. Getting healed on a crit is just dumb luck. No reason to nerf the console not to heal based on crits, it's stll valid energy weapon damage therefore valid to the console. A lot of people are unfairly asking for an overhaul instead of a very slight adjustment. Either slightly adjust the % heal OR (not AND) make it by volley and not shot. Too many PvP players seem to want to use a sledgehammer approach to this. Again, my vote is to leave it alone, but that would be asking for too much given all the crying going on about it.
I think part of the communication breakdown is that there are 2 aspects to this console that are being contested:
1) what its effects are
2) how that affects gameplay through other systems
So, I'm going to pretend I know what I'm talking about for a minute and propose something that I HOPE approaches something like an acceptable adjustment/nerf/war crime/attempt at sanity:
Console's effect goes from 200% of damage to 150% of damage as taken by target. I don't know whether that has to be modified in the case of AoE damage, and if so by what margin, but see below.
Console procs per firing cycle
Scored healing in FAs and Crystalline mission & other content, regardless of source:
points are counted ONLY when they're healing damage, Full stop. how many points earned per damage healed is a matter of debate.
in short; lessen the effect, make it proc like almost everything else in STO, no counting damage that isn't damaging anything, no scoring heals that don't heal anything.
No one console should improve surviviability by that much?
Do you want to take the neutronium consoles out of the game too? The plasmonic leech?
Why not take out Rotate shield frequence, and especially take out EPTS too, so all the PVe events will consist of nothing but players dying? :rolleyes:
Also, making sure you without the console get 1st place in CE seems much more important then letting the already squishy romulan ships get at least some resistance.
Yes! The romulan ships got -40 power, which takes a Great chunk out of their damage or shields.
Sure, if the console is taken away, Warbirds should get -10 power, not -40. Or all warbirds should get 2 more engineering consoles for armors.
They need to survive enemy fire too, and taking away the few tools that allow them to at least try to approach the survivability of a Fed/Kdf ship is not a bright idea.
But if it needs nerfing, why not make it reliable? Make it drain a little shields with every shot. +50 heal per shot? +150? Something that helps to keep the shields up.
And Remove shield healing from counting towards the CE 1st place, so PVP heroes can always claim that.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
No one console should improve surviviability by that much?
Do you want to take the neutronium consoles out of the game too? The plasmonic leech?
Why not take out Rotate shield frequence, and especially take out EPTS too, so all the PVe events will consist of nothing but players dying? :rolleyes:
Also, making sure you without the console get 1st place in CE seems much more important then letting the already squishy romulan ships get at least some resistance.
Yes! The romulan ships got -40 power, which takes a Great chunk out of their damage or shields.
Sure, if the console is taken away, Warbirds should get -10 power, not -40. Or all warbirds should get 2 more engineering consoles for armors.
They need to survive enemy fire too, and taking away the few tools that allow them to at least try to approach the survivability of a Fed/Kdf ship is not a bright idea.
Excellent post pro not nerfing since Romulan ships are at a disadvantage to start with.
He's not suggesting that there is a proc rate above 2.5%, but rather that the proc is not per cycle - it is per shot.
Actually that is how it reads. If it procs "extreamly often anywhere between 1-7 seconds", than that should show up in log as a more frequent occurance than the 2.5% would suggest, it doesn't in my logs but it could be down to yet another bug, granted I only have 1 parse for the typical DHC/Tur/Torp setup.
It reads as 2144 hits, 46 Shield Frequency Procs, which should translate to 2.14%
first of all, it appears to have a 2.5% chance to proc per shot, not per cycle like all other weapons porcs, meaning this goes off extreamly often, anywhere between 1 to 7 seconds, with an average of 3 seconds wile CRFing. ive got quite a bit of logs from PVE and PVP showing this. the fact that there isnt some 10 second or so lock out preventing procs this often is frankly disturbing, seriously guys.
Dontdrunkimshoot, I'd be interested in seeing your log if you don't mind sharing, it could be a difference in parser plugins.
No one console should improve surviviability by that much?
Do you want to take the neutronium consoles out of the game too? The plasmonic leech?
Why not take out Rotate shield frequence, and especially take out EPTS too, so all the PVe events will consist of nothing but players dying? :rolleyes:
Heck, let's just add a kill command to the login script and send someone to your house to call you names everytime you play!
Or...we could make this discussion about the thing, instead of an example of a slippery slope argument.
Also, making sure you without the console get 1st place in CE seems much more important then letting the already squishy romulan ships get at least some resistance.
Yes! The romulan ships got -40 power, which takes a Great chunk out of their damage or shields.
Sure, if the console is taken away, Warbirds should get -10 power, not -40. Or all warbirds should get 2 more engineering consoles for armors.
They need to survive enemy fire too, and taking away the few tools that allow them to at least try to approach the survivability of a Fed/Kdf ship is not a bright idea.
Warbirds aren't like other ships. They're not designed to be played like Fed/KDF ships, and some of them blow up a lot more often when you try.
Instead of super-tough hulls, maxed-out power levels, and impenetrable shields, every single one of them have a cloak that you can come in and out of more often and more easily than almost every single other ship in the game.
I fly a T'varo, arguably the squishiest of warbirds around. I don't hit as hard as my Fed's andorian escort, nor can I take as much punishment.
BUT, I die less. Why? because I can freakin DISAPPEAR VIRTUALLY AT WILL, and almost always at the exact time I need to the most. Not only that, but I get significant benefits for doing it as often as is practical.
Ok that's a little better. Now, the description of Absorptive Frequency Generator (not to be confused with the Adaptive Frequency Generator, which will be released at a later date I guess) says that it provides a heal for 200% of the damage done. In fact it provides heals wildly above 200% of the damage done. Changes made would be to correct a fault, not to weaken something that is working as intended in order to balance the game.
Continuing to refer to these changes as a nerf is dishonest and will only foment discord and hinder a reasonable balance discussion in the future once it is actually working as intended.
Stop. Just stop. Only in very specific circumstances are the procs "over proccing" (i've managed to at least narrow down one semi-replicatable instance to some combination of AoEs, Attack Patterns and EPtS). The overwhelming majority of the time this console does exactly what it says on the tin.
Stop trying to put a different label on what needs to be done. It's going to be a nerf. A nerf that is going to contain a bug-fix, but it's still a nerf.
No one console should improve surviviability by that much? Correct. No single console should fully heal shields with no cd. Of course, this console was never designed to do that, which is why it's being examined.
Do you want to take the neutronium consoles out of the game too? The plasmonic leech? Neither of these provide a full shield heal and are simply not comparable to the current returns from the AFG by an order of magnitude.
Why not take out Rotate shield frequence, and especially take out EPTS too, so all the PVe events will consist of nothing but players dying? :rolleyes: RSF is a captain career ability. Miracle Worker would honestly be a better comparison, because it gives a heal that is comparable. Of course, it has a long cd and a trait is required to shorten that cd. Because that's balanced.
Also, making sure you without the console get 1st place in CE seems much more important then letting the already squishy romulan ships get at least some resistance. The AFG does not provide resistance. I don't see why you are bringing resistance up.
Yes! The romulan ships got -40 power, which takes a Great chunk out of their damage or shields. The AFG does not provide power, I don't see why you are bringing power levels up.
Sure, if the console is taken away, Warbirds should get -10 power, not -40. Or all warbirds should get 2 more engineering consoles for armors. Nobody is talking about the console being "taken away." Again, the AFG is unrelated to power levels or anything that an engineering console could provide. I don't see why you are bringing them up.
They need to survive enemy fire too, and taking away the few tools that allow them to at least try to approach the survivability of a Fed/Kdf ship is not a bright idea. One of the few tools? You mean like:
Plasma Shockwave
Quantum Absorption
Warp Shadows
Singularity Jump
Singularity Overcharge
[Console - Universal - Singularity Stabilizer]
[Console - Universal - Singularity Inverter]
[Console - Universal - Molecular Phase Inverter]
4 more Retrofit restricted consoles
Battlecloak + 7 weapon slots + cruiser hull & shield mod & 70 inertia
But if it needs nerfing, why not make it reliable? Make it drain a little shields with every shot. +50 heal per shot? +150? Something that helps to keep the shields up. Not nerf. Fix.
And Remove shield healing from counting towards the CE 1st place, so PVP heroes can always claim that. The inclusion of healing is an attempt to keep every single aspect of STO from being a dps race. The more refined approach would be to discriminate between over healing and functional healing.
Overall this entire post is an example of the dishonest hyperbole that prevents levelheaded discussion.
Stop. Just stop. Only in very specific circumstances are the procs "over proccing" (i've managed to at least narrow down one semi-replicatable instance to some combination of AoEs, Attack Patterns and EPtS). The overwhelming majority of the time this console does exactly what it says on the tin.
Stop trying to put a different label on what needs to be done. It's going to be a nerf. A nerf that is going to contain a bug-fix, but it's still a nerf.
I disagree. Call it semantics, but you can't nerf something until it's WAI.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Stop. Just stop. Only in very specific circumstances are the procs "over proccing" (i've managed to at least narrow down one semi-replicatable instance to some combination of AoEs, Attack Patterns and EPtS). The overwhelming majority of the time this console does exactly what it says on the tin.
Stop trying to put a different label on what needs to be done. It's going to be a nerf. A nerf that is going to contain a bug-fix, but it's still a nerf.
Almost every parse I have is inconsistent between maximum damage hits and Proc heals. That is anything but a very specific circumstance.
Overall this entire post is an example of the dishonest hyperbole that prevents levelheaded discussion.
I disagree. Call it semantics, but you can't nerf something until it's WAI.
Because you totally missed the point, and you just call people dishonest. That's levelheaded discussion, right? :rolleyes:
If you cant see why I even bring up survivability with a console that heals, then I'll be nice and tell you a giant secret.
Shield healing improves survivability, and none of the examples you give improves it adequately.
You offer one-shot consoles that take up slots from other survivability boosting consoles.
And yes, its a nerf, the console is working fine and its not bugged currently.
It would be a bug fix if it were dealing damage to targets, or not doing anything, or damaging your shields and so on.
Edit : Oh, and cloaking has a little bit of a problem. Your shields go down Before you totally cloak, which means the enemy gets 3-4 seconds of time to shoot your hull.
So first you have to get out of their weapons range, then cloak.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
i could take screenshots of this huge log all day, these are the 3 bottom pages, non cherry picked. there are of course several breaks in procs, because ether CRF wears off, targets get out of firing arcs, or i already killed who i was shooting. theres 100 reason why all my weapons might not be fireing at any given time. if this were a log of an stf, against an immoble structure, it would be much worse then this. also note the size of the heals, every few procs is enough for a full shield heal. even the small heals are an incredibly imbalanced extra in the middle of a pvp fight, and the most blatant crutch ever in a pve mission.
anyone who hasn't turned on /combatlog 1, loaded their log into act, and taken at least as in dept look as this, needs to stop posting about this.
Would you mind sharing the actual log itself? I'm more interested in the overall picture rather than a snapshot, though I can tell you beams produce the same result, but it still doesn't go beyond a total proc chance of 2.5%. All this snapshot tells is the streaky nature of the procs.
i could take screenshots of this huge log all day, these are the 3 bottom pages, non cherry picked. there are of course several breaks in procs, because ether CRF wears off, targets get out of firing arcs, or i already killed who i was shooting. theres 100 reason why all my weapons might not be fireing at any given time. if this were a log of an stf, against an immoble structure, it would be much worse then this. also note the size of the heals, every few procs is enough for a full shield heal. even the small heals are an incredibly imbalanced extra in the middle of a pvp fight, and the most blatant crutch ever in a pve mission.
anyone who hasn't turned on /combatlog 1, loaded their log into act, and taken at least as in dept look as this, needs to stop posting about this.
I like having a pve crutch, but why not disable it for pvp?
On one hand, PVP would only ever be fair if everybody ran the same skills, officer, and ship with the same items and abilities....
Which in a free to play game may not be a bright idea.
Free to play games usually have pay to win items, which should be "overpowered" compared to non payed for items, or who would buy them?
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
even the small heals are an incredibly imbalanced extra in the middle of a pvp fight.
And the ugly truth comes out, PvP players just want to turn the console to junk status. Romulan ships have a power level penalty to start with. PvP players boast as how they can alpha stike someone and take enemy ships out in a couple of seconds. Just take weapons offline first and do your magic. If you all that DPS talk in the forums is true, the ships should be destroyed just fine with console included.
One wonders...if we had a console that healed you for a million points a second, would people find that 'fun' in PvE?
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
And the ugly truth comes out, PvP players just want to turn the console to junk status. Romulan ships have a power level penalty to start with. PvP players boast as how they can alpha stike someone and take enemy ships out in a couple of seconds. Just take weapons offline first and do your magic. If you all that DPS talk in the forums is true, the ships should be destroyed just fine with console included.
First you can't alpha strike a person who knows to use TT.
Romulan ships have zero power level penalty.Can use efficient boffs ,can use and stack 5 boffs with superior operative/infiltrator ,can use leech and last but not least can use lockbox ships .Stop QQing about broken romulans because that stupid faction made all ships in game and builds look like sheet .
PvP players can use that broken console and want it fixed because dont want to face other PvP players using broken consoles.
One wonders...if we had a console that healed you for a million points a second, would people find that 'fun' in PvE?
I think they find that normal but if you give the a chat godmode command they say its unfair.Dont try to understand ...theres no logic ,just QQing about broken stuffs needed to kill npcs *facepalm*
Stop. Just stop. Only in very specific circumstances are the procs "over proccing" (i've managed to at least narrow down one semi-replicatable instance to some combination of AoEs, Attack Patterns and EPtS). The overwhelming majority of the time this console does exactly what it says on the tin.
Stop trying to put a different label on what needs to be done. It's going to be a nerf. A nerf that is going to contain a bug-fix, but it's still a nerf.
Console is being sold and performing as advertised, end of discussion. PvP community, let it be.
Edit : Oh, and cloaking has a little bit of a problem. Your shields go down Before you totally cloak, which means the enemy gets 3-4 seconds of time to shoot your hull.
So first you have to get out of their weapons range, then cloak.
Fine, I'll bite. At the risk of this turning into a "how to romulan" seminar.
correct, there is a period where shields are down but you're not impervious to harm. Furthermore, if you have some singularity charge, that weakens the effect of the cloak. So, here are a handful of ways to avoid the issue:
* don't try and cloak when you're about to be hit by a torpedo. that's unwise
* use one of several captain and/or BOFF abilities to make sure you're strong enough to take a little damage
* use a singularity power to drain your charge. 3 out of the 5 abilities either drastically toughen you up, or break target locks anyway
* don't wait until you're about to die to cloak
* as you mentioned, get out of the thick of things before cloaking
* suck it up and cross your fingers, because unless you're already pretty hurt, outside of being targeted in PVP by someone who knows what they're doing, you can take the hull damage most of the time anyway.
First you can't alpha strike a person who knows to use TT.
Romulan ships have zero power level penalty.Can use efficient boffs ,can use and stack 5 boffs with superior operative/infiltrator ,can use leech and last but not least can use lockbox ships .Stop QQing about broken romulans because that stupid faction made all ships in game and builds look like sheet .
PvP players can use that broken console and want it fixed because dont want to face other PvP players using broken consoles.
I think they find that normal but if you give the a chat godmode command they say its unfair.Dont try to understand ...theres no logic ,just QQing about broken stuffs needed to kill npcs *facepalm*
They can stack boffs, but those Romulan/Reman traits are either/or on a particular boff. The efficient trait is avail to all faction so that is a mute point. They do have a power penalty. They can use lock box ships, but not T5 fleet ships as far as I know, and (correct me if I'm wrong on this), don't have access to elite phasers/disruptors. Complaining about Romulans like this = the complaints about Klingons when they came out.
They can stack boffs, but those Romulan/Reman traits are either/or on a particular boff. The efficient trait is avail to all faction so that is a mute point. They do have a power penalty. They can use lock box ships, but not T5 fleet ships as far as I know, and (correct me if I'm wrong on this), don't have access to elite phasers/disruptors. Complaining about Romulans like this = the complaints about Klingons when they came out.
they have access to all that ,even warp cores for all lockbox ships and all crossfaction consoles and c store consoles up to tier 4.
boffs with superior operative /infiltrator are for sale.Saying only some have that trait is like saying "Im to lazy to equip my ship".
I want to see how they fix kdf and feds (the old ones) after they put this god like faction in game.I know they like to force people to non stop grind and make old ships and builds useless thus forcing people to grind for new ones ,but when you TRIBBLE all ships for few ships (dont know how many romulan ships exist) is not fine at all.
boffs with superior operative /infiltrator are for sale.Saying only some have that trait is like saying "Im to lazy to equip my ship".
That is decidedly incorrect. You can get Operative/Subterfuge and Infiltrator/Subterfuge pairings, but (barring some hybrid doff I don't know about) Operative and Infiltrator are species specific traits available only to Romulan and Reman PCs/Boffs respectively.
they have access to all that ,even warp cores for all lockbox ships and all crossfaction consoles and c store consoles up to tier 4.
boffs with superior operative /infiltrator are for sale.Saying only some have that trait is like saying "Im to lazy to equip my ship".
I want to see how they fix kdf and feds (the old ones) after they put this god like faction in game.I know they like to force people to non stop grind and make old ships and builds useless thus forcing people to grind for new ones ,but when you TRIBBLE all ships for few ships (dont know how many romulan ships exist) is not fine at all.
Romulan boffs have one trait, Remans the other. Romulans are far from the God faction. This console only works for warbirds, so no warp core + valdore console combination is available. I'm pretty sure Romulans also have restrictions on elite fleet phaser/disruptor weapons and t5 fleet ships
Because you totally missed the point, and you just call people dishonest. That's levelheaded discussion, right? :rolleyes:
If you cant see why I even bring up survivability with a console that heals, then I'll be nice and tell you a giant secret.
Shield healing improves survivability, and none of the examples you give improves it adequately.
You offer one-shot consoles that take up slots from other survivability boosting consoles.
Plasma Shockwave - Run a [Wave] SC, chance to disable weapons, they can't shoot you then your survivability increases
Quantum Absorption - Huge heal. Buys time for true hull healing or BC with temporary points. Increased survivablity.
Warp Shadows - Makes people stop shooting at you. Increased surviviablity.
Singularity Jump - Jump away from targets (damage is reduced over distance) and accruracy (you get hit less). Increased survivability.
Singularity Overcharge - OK. Here's one that doesn't directly increase your survivability.
[Console - Universal - Singularity Stabilizer] - Increases frequency of the above methods for increasing survivability.
[Console - Universal - Singularity Inverter] - Increases frequency of the above methods for increasing survivability.
[Console - Universal - Molecular Phase Inverter] - Increased defense and resistance. Increased survivability.
4 more Retrofit restricted consoles
Battlecloak + 7 weapon slots + cruiser hull & shield mod & 70 inertia
And yes, its a nerf, the console is working fine and its not bugged currently. Post a log. Match damage to healing procs 1:2. Until then we will go with the accepted conclusion that it is bugged.
It would be a bug fix if it were dealing damage to targets, or not doing anything, or damaging your shields and so on.
Edit : Oh, and cloaking has a little bit of a problem. Your shields go down Before you totally cloak, which means the enemy gets 3-4 seconds of time to shoot your hull.
So first you have to get out of their weapons range, then cloak. Sorry friend, this is simply user error. Learn when and how to battlecloak and what compliments it so you can survive activation under fire. In other words, fly a BoP for a week. Don't assume the cloak has a problem because you personally don't know how to use it.
I honestly can't understand where you're coming from. You refuse to acknowledge the tools which are given to you or take the time to learn to use them properly. You insist that a clearly bugged console healing for a quarter of a million per proc should stay.
I guess... I guess I just thought that deep down, whether you prefer PvE or PvP, there's something in every gamer that seeks an intrinsic reward. A win when defeat was possible. Challenge for the sake of it. I thought the worst kind of gamer was the FPS brah-baggers. But even those guys don't want to enable console commands. You've actually managed to lower my opinion of gaming humanity. gg. gg.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Romulan boffs have one trait, Remans the other. Romulans are far from the God faction. This console only works for warbirds, so no warp core + valdore console combination is available. I'm pretty sure Romulans also have restrictions on elite fleet phaser/disruptor weapons and t5 fleet ships
You probably dont know romulan traits.Go check on exchange .Romulans have superior operative and Remans superior Infiltrator.With 5 superior operative boffs and all crtH consoles you get over 20%crtH....so human in a lockbox ships vs romulan in same lockbox ship ....romulan will have about 50% crtH than the ship piloted by the human.
cryptic cant even ballance the same ship.
Romulans have no restrictions for fleet weapons.
p.s all romulan stuffs are way over old ships....even without reputation passives.
Comments
Here, we have some people angry that "PvP'ers want a nerf." Well the devil's in the details my lovelies. In this case, the devil's in the diction. Specifically, the choice of the word nerf over bug fix.
In an attempt to find a common vocabulary I consulted Urban Dictionary.
nerf - To make worse or weaken, usually in the context of weakening something in order to balance out a game. Why the hell did Blizzard nerf Marines' attack damage?
bugfix - The act of replacing a very small TRIBBLE with a much larger, yet far less functional TRIBBLE. Hey, honey, that's a tiny TRIBBLE, maybe you should get a bugfix. I mean, you don't know how to use it anyway, right?
Alright so that second one wasn't so helpful, maybe I'll just go with their definition of bug.
bug - A fault in a computer system or any physical entity including humanoids. I have been pwnz0red by a bug and am not well.
Ok that's a little better. Now, the description of Absorptive Frequency Generator (not to be confused with the Adaptive Frequency Generator, which will be released at a later date I guess) says that it provides a heal for 200% of the damage done. In fact it provides heals wildly above 200% of the damage done. Changes made would be to correct a fault, not to weaken something that is working as intended in order to balance the game.
Continuing to refer to these changes as a nerf is dishonest and will only foment discord and hinder a reasonable balance discussion in the future once it is actually working as intended.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
If this were true, you'd see way more sci captains. A lot of the non-healing sci skills are a joke. The PvP forums are filled with dumb, I can't figure how to counter it so it must be OP threads (the subnuc doff is a recent example). Most requests for nerfs come from PvP because it's the only place players get to interact with others. The only slight annoyance (and it's fine with me) outside of PvP are borg spheres using EPtE and scattering like roaches. By the way, disabling weapons=console doesn't work. You PvP guys are all experts on quick kills, you should be able to take down a ship by disabling weapons and firing away.
By the way, on the other posts I've read. Getting healed on a crit is just dumb luck. No reason to nerf the console not to heal based on crits, it's stll valid energy weapon damage therefore valid to the console. A lot of people are unfairly asking for an overhaul instead of a very slight adjustment. Either slightly adjust the % heal OR (not AND) make it by volley and not shot. Too many PvP players seem to want to use a sledgehammer approach to this. Again, my vote is to leave it alone, but that would be asking for too much given all the crying going on about it.
1) what its effects are
2) how that affects gameplay through other systems
So, I'm going to pretend I know what I'm talking about for a minute and propose something that I HOPE approaches something like an acceptable adjustment/nerf/war crime/attempt at sanity:
Console's effect goes from 200% of damage to 150% of damage as taken by target. I don't know whether that has to be modified in the case of AoE damage, and if so by what margin, but see below.
Console procs per firing cycle
Scored healing in FAs and Crystalline mission & other content, regardless of source:
points are counted ONLY when they're healing damage, Full stop. how many points earned per damage healed is a matter of debate.
in short; lessen the effect, make it proc like almost everything else in STO, no counting damage that isn't damaging anything, no scoring heals that don't heal anything.
Yes/No?
but could it not be changed to work like this. 200% in pve and 100% in pvp.
Do you want to take the neutronium consoles out of the game too? The plasmonic leech?
Why not take out Rotate shield frequence, and especially take out EPTS too, so all the PVe events will consist of nothing but players dying? :rolleyes:
Also, making sure you without the console get 1st place in CE seems much more important then letting the already squishy romulan ships get at least some resistance.
Yes! The romulan ships got -40 power, which takes a Great chunk out of their damage or shields.
Sure, if the console is taken away, Warbirds should get -10 power, not -40. Or all warbirds should get 2 more engineering consoles for armors.
They need to survive enemy fire too, and taking away the few tools that allow them to at least try to approach the survivability of a Fed/Kdf ship is not a bright idea.
But if it needs nerfing, why not make it reliable? Make it drain a little shields with every shot. +50 heal per shot? +150? Something that helps to keep the shields up.
And Remove shield healing from counting towards the CE 1st place, so PVP heroes can always claim that.
Excellent post pro not nerfing since Romulan ships are at a disadvantage to start with.
I would happily trade the valdore console for a fed warp core and its extra 40 power, all of which would go to shields.
Actually that is how it reads. If it procs "extreamly often anywhere between 1-7 seconds", than that should show up in log as a more frequent occurance than the 2.5% would suggest, it doesn't in my logs but it could be down to yet another bug, granted I only have 1 parse for the typical DHC/Tur/Torp setup.
It reads as 2144 hits, 46 Shield Frequency Procs, which should translate to 2.14%
Dontdrunkimshoot, I'd be interested in seeing your log if you don't mind sharing, it could be a difference in parser plugins.
For comparison here's a typical Crystalline normal for Beams. It comes out at 2.56% proc chance.
Heck, let's just add a kill command to the login script and send someone to your house to call you names everytime you play!
Or...we could make this discussion about the thing, instead of an example of a slippery slope argument.
Warbirds aren't like other ships. They're not designed to be played like Fed/KDF ships, and some of them blow up a lot more often when you try.
Instead of super-tough hulls, maxed-out power levels, and impenetrable shields, every single one of them have a cloak that you can come in and out of more often and more easily than almost every single other ship in the game.
I fly a T'varo, arguably the squishiest of warbirds around. I don't hit as hard as my Fed's andorian escort, nor can I take as much punishment.
BUT, I die less. Why? because I can freakin DISAPPEAR VIRTUALLY AT WILL, and almost always at the exact time I need to the most. Not only that, but I get significant benefits for doing it as often as is practical.
Stop. Just stop. Only in very specific circumstances are the procs "over proccing" (i've managed to at least narrow down one semi-replicatable instance to some combination of AoEs, Attack Patterns and EPtS). The overwhelming majority of the time this console does exactly what it says on the tin.
Stop trying to put a different label on what needs to be done. It's going to be a nerf. A nerf that is going to contain a bug-fix, but it's still a nerf.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Almost every parse I have is inconsistent between maximum damage hits and Proc heals. That is anything but a very specific circumstance.
Because you totally missed the point, and you just call people dishonest. That's levelheaded discussion, right? :rolleyes:
If you cant see why I even bring up survivability with a console that heals, then I'll be nice and tell you a giant secret.
Shield healing improves survivability, and none of the examples you give improves it adequately.
You offer one-shot consoles that take up slots from other survivability boosting consoles.
And yes, its a nerf, the console is working fine and its not bugged currently.
It would be a bug fix if it were dealing damage to targets, or not doing anything, or damaging your shields and so on.
Edit : Oh, and cloaking has a little bit of a problem. Your shields go down Before you totally cloak, which means the enemy gets 3-4 seconds of time to shoot your hull.
So first you have to get out of their weapons range, then cloak.
https://i.minus.com/iI2qxG3AhR2lw.JPG
https://i.minus.com/ibxKdvMkysHhnR.JPG
https://i.minus.com/iBpzBDniTEnwl.JPG
i could take screenshots of this huge log all day, these are the 3 bottom pages, non cherry picked. there are of course several breaks in procs, because ether CRF wears off, targets get out of firing arcs, or i already killed who i was shooting. theres 100 reason why all my weapons might not be fireing at any given time. if this were a log of an stf, against an immoble structure, it would be much worse then this. also note the size of the heals, every few procs is enough for a full shield heal. even the small heals are an incredibly imbalanced extra in the middle of a pvp fight, and the most blatant crutch ever in a pve mission.
anyone who hasn't turned on /combatlog 1, loaded their log into act, and taken at least as in dept look as this, needs to stop posting about this.
I like having a pve crutch, but why not disable it for pvp?
On one hand, PVP would only ever be fair if everybody ran the same skills, officer, and ship with the same items and abilities....
Which in a free to play game may not be a bright idea.
Free to play games usually have pay to win items, which should be "overpowered" compared to non payed for items, or who would buy them?
And the ugly truth comes out, PvP players just want to turn the console to junk status. Romulan ships have a power level penalty to start with. PvP players boast as how they can alpha stike someone and take enemy ships out in a couple of seconds. Just take weapons offline first and do your magic. If you all that DPS talk in the forums is true, the ships should be destroyed just fine with console included.
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
First you can't alpha strike a person who knows to use TT.
Romulan ships have zero power level penalty.Can use efficient boffs ,can use and stack 5 boffs with superior operative/infiltrator ,can use leech and last but not least can use lockbox ships .Stop QQing about broken romulans because that stupid faction made all ships in game and builds look like sheet .
PvP players can use that broken console and want it fixed because dont want to face other PvP players using broken consoles.
I think they find that normal but if you give the a chat godmode command they say its unfair.Dont try to understand ...theres no logic ,just QQing about broken stuffs needed to kill npcs *facepalm*
Console is being sold and performing as advertised, end of discussion. PvP community, let it be.
Fine, I'll bite. At the risk of this turning into a "how to romulan" seminar.
correct, there is a period where shields are down but you're not impervious to harm. Furthermore, if you have some singularity charge, that weakens the effect of the cloak. So, here are a handful of ways to avoid the issue:
* don't try and cloak when you're about to be hit by a torpedo. that's unwise
* use one of several captain and/or BOFF abilities to make sure you're strong enough to take a little damage
* use a singularity power to drain your charge. 3 out of the 5 abilities either drastically toughen you up, or break target locks anyway
* don't wait until you're about to die to cloak
* as you mentioned, get out of the thick of things before cloaking
* suck it up and cross your fingers, because unless you're already pretty hurt, outside of being targeted in PVP by someone who knows what they're doing, you can take the hull damage most of the time anyway.
Not end of discussion. Not by a long shot.
Just because something does what it says it's doing in no way means that something doesn't need to be adjusted.
They can stack boffs, but those Romulan/Reman traits are either/or on a particular boff. The efficient trait is avail to all faction so that is a mute point. They do have a power penalty. They can use lock box ships, but not T5 fleet ships as far as I know, and (correct me if I'm wrong on this), don't have access to elite phasers/disruptors. Complaining about Romulans like this = the complaints about Klingons when they came out.
they have access to all that ,even warp cores for all lockbox ships and all crossfaction consoles and c store consoles up to tier 4.
boffs with superior operative /infiltrator are for sale.Saying only some have that trait is like saying "Im to lazy to equip my ship".
I want to see how they fix kdf and feds (the old ones) after they put this god like faction in game.I know they like to force people to non stop grind and make old ships and builds useless thus forcing people to grind for new ones ,but when you TRIBBLE all ships for few ships (dont know how many romulan ships exist) is not fine at all.
That is decidedly incorrect. You can get Operative/Subterfuge and Infiltrator/Subterfuge pairings, but (barring some hybrid doff I don't know about) Operative and Infiltrator are species specific traits available only to Romulan and Reman PCs/Boffs respectively.
Romulan boffs have one trait, Remans the other. Romulans are far from the God faction. This console only works for warbirds, so no warp core + valdore console combination is available. I'm pretty sure Romulans also have restrictions on elite fleet phaser/disruptor weapons and t5 fleet ships
First : Make it less effective versus players. Like Pulsewaves.
Second : Give it a small heal but 100% chance of heal with a hit. That will make it reliable and stop giant 99999k overheals that do nothing good.
I'm not saying any small heal value, I'm leaving it to the devs to do that.
To Scrimpinion:
Those are fine for normal pve, but for that I hardly ever need to cloak or do other stuff.
I dont PVP, I never will, but in ESTFs, even one (Conveniently invisible) torpedo hit is enough to make a ship explode in a nice manner.
I guess... I guess I just thought that deep down, whether you prefer PvE or PvP, there's something in every gamer that seeks an intrinsic reward. A win when defeat was possible. Challenge for the sake of it. I thought the worst kind of gamer was the FPS brah-baggers. But even those guys don't want to enable console commands. You've actually managed to lower my opinion of gaming humanity. gg. gg.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
You probably dont know romulan traits.Go check on exchange .Romulans have superior operative and Remans superior Infiltrator.With 5 superior operative boffs and all crtH consoles you get over 20%crtH....so human in a lockbox ships vs romulan in same lockbox ship ....romulan will have about 50% crtH than the ship piloted by the human.
cryptic cant even ballance the same ship.
Romulans have no restrictions for fleet weapons.
p.s all romulan stuffs are way over old ships....even without reputation passives.