Still haven't had any trouble taking Mogai's using the console down. This game is all about burst damage and using shield resists to counter it, SAFG doesn't help against this at all. Best counter is just Tractor+BO+HY, and shockwave if you want, but I usually don't even need that with as crazy high as you can get crit chance and severity now.
Using the console I can still be killed by SNB and focus fire just like without using the console since shield resists and tac team will be gone all of the heals won't matter, it might just buy you a few seconds more. Chances are if you are in a situation where you were going to die, you will still probably die anyway using this console.
It helps you resist pressure DPS, but that is a joke anyway. I only use this console on my Mogai to make the 2 piece set, if the set bonus wasn't something I want, I wouldn't even bother wasting a console slot on it. I switch ships every day or 2, and never use this console in my Fleet Dhelan, Fleet T'Varo, or Fleet D'Deridex because it isn't really necessary. If this is nerfed at all, that will mean you have to slot 2 useless consoles on the Mogai to make the 2 piece set rather then the situation we have now where we slot 1 moderatley useful console the SAFG and 1 bad console the negative ion charger.
Main thing that would make me mad about the nerf is not so much losing shield heals, but I specifically got both consoles for the 2 piece bonus, and expect to have at lease some utility from each console individually since I am giving up 2 console slots for the bonus.
Not a smart thing to do if PWE wants to continue selling ships that have console sets.
Had to go eat dinner while doing the math. Numbers in () indicate shield hits.
First person (mr. Polaron cannons)
Assuming that it must have proc'd on one target as the overall damage for the same second trumps the heal provided. Discarding misses because they dealt no damage obviously.
9472 heal
9472 / 2 = 4736 target number.
Target 4 (cuts off to :39 mark here so I didn't add this in below)
1236 + 874 = 2110 Target 3
1206 + (285) + 51 + 1246 + 988 = 3776
Minus shield hits = 3491 Target 2
1238 + (612) + 109 = 1959
Minus shield hits = 1347 Target 1
570 + 302 + 2167 + 567 + (516) + 67 = 4189
Minus shield hits = 3673
Targets 1-3 added up = 9924
Minus shields = 8511
Second Person (Full Plasma loadout)
I discarded the Pet damage attributed due to the use of a Nimbus Pirate Distress Call. Also some confusion because of DHC/Turret chunks. May have been a target out of DHC arc. (Also I realized I was looking at the data backwards to forwards here)
Couple of close numbers there but still no exacts.
I discarded the last couple of sets because that was during a Crystalline Catastrophe and so my Data is unreliable there. The above two are from a Starbase Fleet Alert so while I can't claim them to be 100% accurate I'm certain they're 90% accurate. (Still learning all the nuances of the combatlog, /combatlog 1 and ACT.)
Another note for ACT parsers: 'All outgoing [Ref]' may help by showing all the numbers next to each other. (Will endeavor for more accurate logs, though I don't have the console myself so I'm at the mercy of others using it.)
Firstly this console seems to be a big problem for min/max pvper's (Basically people that play Klingon and have bugship) anyone else isn't really min/max.
Secondly: if you have good luck this console is broken so yeah it needs a nerf. I just hate relying on luck.
How about this:
Nerf the heal to useless (This is cryptic so it will 100% get nerfed to being useless as Cryptic already made money off it) and swap it with the 2 piece bonus. That way people that want the 2 piece bonus such as myself (+5weap power and +25 weapon drain resist) will still have one useful thing that we can rely on/control without having to waste 2 console slots.
The ionized particle beam console is a lost cause, cryptic will never improve it that is guaranteed. Look at all the TRIBBLE fed consoles. (Only use for this is to slow people but on 3 min cooldown and having to wait for the proc to even be able to get this effect make it worthless)
Exactly Adjudicatorhawk, this exactly what it happens. And you are right, ACT or other parse programs make it look worse then it is. The shield heal cap, if it would be possible, would be a good idea. Like for example to limit it to 4 digits, to 9999 heal for example.
Some ppl here that demand, again and again, that the console to be nerfed by adding a 10 secs CD or lowering to 150% or whatever, cant understand that even with those nerfs the console would still show huge healings.
Yestarday I tested it again with all numbers showing, dmg, heals etc and payed attention when the shield heals pop up. I used a full cannon build with 4 DHCs front, 2 turrents and cuting beam rear. It showed normal heals for some time, in range of 1500-5000 heals. But then out of the sudden i got 88k shield heal on EACH facing. Thats imposible to be 200% of my dmg since one of my Dhcs can crit only till around 7k, and i dont think it was even a crit, i didnt looked at the target since i was paying atention to the shields.
I say this again, the console needs FIXING, NOT NERFING.
Now please bear in mind that I'm not picking on you, most of your post is quite agreeable and I can concur with what you've said.
However this whole, "It's all overhealing/ACT tells lies" canard really bugs me. Just because ridiculous healing figures are 'overheals' does not make them balanced. Any 'overheal' by definition is a 100% effective heal. There is no damage short of fatal that you could've taken where an 'overheal' wouldn't bring you straight back to perfect health.
There are others (not you specifically) who imply that ACT is telling fibs, or can't accurately depict "the whole situation" or whatever. ACT doesn't do anything other than present log data into an easier-to-read format. Bar anomalies like tet glider we understand the game pretty well at this point. When an enormous figure is there it's because something in the game that isn't working right produced it. Last time this happened it was due to BFI DOffs (and the parser correctly predicted this), this is not anything new.
Now please bear in mind that I'm not picking on you, most of your post is quite agreeable and I can concur with what you've said.
However this whole, "It's all overhealing/ACT tells lies" canard really bugs me. Just because ridiculous healing figures are 'overheals' does not make them balanced. Any 'overheal' by definition is a 100% effective heal. There is no damage short of fatal that you could've taken where an 'overheal' wouldn't bring you straight back to perfect health.
There are others (not you specifically) who imply that ACT is telling fibs, or can't accurately depict "the whole situation" or whatever. ACT doesn't do anything other than present log data into an easier-to-read format. Bar anomalies like tet glider we understand the game pretty well at this point. When an enormous figure is there it's because something in the game that isn't working right produced it. Last time this happened it was due to BFI DOffs (and the parser correctly predicted this), this is not anything new.
You do know it does not heal hulls, right?
Also, any overheal by definition can be 100% wasted healing, especially if you are undamaged.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Also, any overheal by definition can be 100% wasted healing, especially if you are undamaged.
If this console had a cooldown you would have half of a point when it came to "wasted healing" (still not a good point, but getting there). However this console comes at absolutely zero cost other than a console slot. It would be like describing the Embassy console procs as "wasted healing", it's just absurd. You're at 100% shields and you haven't put any important BOff skills on cooldown; you haven't put anything on cooldown actually. There's nothing lost no matter how much you heal.
If this console had a cooldown you would have half of a point when it came to "wasted healing" (still not a good point, but getting there). However this console comes at absolutely zero cost other than a console slot. It would be like describing the Embassy console procs as "wasted healing", it's just absurd. You're at 100% shields and you haven't put any important BOff skills on cooldown; you haven't put anything on cooldown actually. There's nothing lost no matter how much you heal.
But there is nothing gained either. And the procs are entirely at random. It may proc little to nothing when you need it in a fight.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
But there is nothing gained either. And the procs are entirely at random. It may proc little to nothing when you need it in a fight.
'Nothing cost - Nothing gained' is meaningless and a canceled out argument.
The random issue, while valid, is weighted towards being reliable for when you need it because of the per-shot proc mechanic. (IE you're more likely to get a proc when you need it because you're getting more procs period.)
'Little to nothing' is subjective. Average shield capacity at high end is around 8k and most procs aside from the bonkers 10k+ heal for around 2-4k. So you can assume that you're getting around 1/4 to 1/2 of your shields healed per proc.
2-4k Shield healing is getting into EPtS III and Miracle Worker levels of shield healing, both which have cooldowns limiting how often they can be used.
That, combined with the per-shot proc mechanic leading to more procs, means that you have a reliable, frequent, and powerful source of shield healing.
In one of my examples, the only other heal that was used by that person was a single Aux to Struct. All the rest was from the console.
Speaking of I don't have any more data to provide/math out at this time.
You fail to grasp the finer details of debugging code. Yes, it's not normal to run 1 weapon, but running 6 different ones at the same time is little to no help pinning down the problem.
i dont see all that much to debug. maybe theres some modifiers a bit out of control ballooning some heals much larger then they should be. but thats hardly the biggest problem, regardless they are a proc for a full shield heal.
this consoles main issue is that the proc magnitude and the heal magnitude is hilariously larger then it has a right to be. every proc were your not at full shields already is completely game changing. to get an equivalent to even the small heals like this, we have had to wait for EPtS to cycle, use TSS, bfi doffs, RSP, all to get heals a fraction of the size that this console those out literally every other second. this is some perspective the rest of you desperately need to gain. all those other shield healers have at least a 30 second cooldown before you can use them again too.
1596 procs needs to be divided by 4, as the proc for the shield console shows up 4 times in the log per 1 actual proc, as there are four shield facings. This is why the number of procs in ACT for the Shield Console are always divisible by 4.
1596 / 4 = 399 actual procs / 30878 hits * 100 = 1.29% you are in fact proccing considerably less than the consoles stated %. So no you are not getting a 5% proc rate.
like i said, im not so good at math, good catch. what does a 1.29% proc chance look like? a proc as often as my screenshots show. with how many shots you fire, obviously 1.29% is too high. this really puts into perspective how often you get a proc on a per shot thing. that 2 part borg weapon/console set must be procing a lot more often then i thought it was.
1596 procs needs to be divided by 4, as the proc for the shield console shows up 4 times in the log per 1 actual proc, as there are four shield facings. This is why the number of procs in ACT for the Shield Console are always divisible by 4.
1596 / 4 = 399 actual procs / 30878 hits * 100 = 1.29% you are in fact proccing considerably less than the consoles stated %. So no you are not getting a 5% proc rate.
Was not really going to comment more on this matter - but this is something huge that seems to be so-for overlooked.(although dontdrunkimshoot did acknowledge the issue)
i dont see all that much to debug. maybe theres some modifiers a bit out of control ballooning some heals much larger then they should be. but thats hardly the biggest problem, regardless they are a proc for a full shield heal.
this consoles main issue is that the proc magnitude and the heal magnitude is hilariously larger then it has a right to be. every proc were your not at full shields already is completely game changing. to get an equivalent to even the small heals like this, we have had to wait for EPtS to cycle, use TSS, bfi doffs, RSP, all to get heals a fraction of the size that this console those out literally every other second. this is some perspective the rest of you desperately need to gain. all those other shield healers have at least a 30 second cooldown before you can use them again too.
like i said, im not so good at math, good catch. what does a 1.29% proc chance look like? a proc as often as my screenshots show. with how many shots you fire, obviously 1.29% is too high. this really puts into perspective how often you get a proc on a per shot thing. that 2 part borg weapon/console set must be procing a lot more often then i thought it was.
I usually don't post but I am so damn tired of watching you polluting this thread with bull**** and nonsense pages after pages. There is only one fact here and that is the console doesn't proc anywhere near often enough, I stoped counting how many times I went through 10 seconds gaps or even longer without a proc. The console is too spiky and that needs to be fixed.
Who the hell do you think you are to spew lies and petty judgement on our purchase?
I declare that the heal on this console is mostly fine just need a small adjustment and I don't give a rat's TRIBBLE abour your worthless opinion on the matter. No way I am letting a hater like you butcher this console.
If you don't like it , take the console off your ship but you sure as hell don't try to mess my mine. Go back to your pvper world with the likes of you.
Now that this nasty buisness is done here is the feedback part for Archon:
I don't pretend to teach you how to do your job but I think you're just way overthinking this, no need to add a cap or anything requiring more coding.
The console is foundamentally fine,the concept is sound and it mostly do what is it supposed to do, just a little too much of it. I mean really you have more important things to do that redesign a console that works just because of some forum trolls in this thread, their opinion is irrelevant .
You have two variable already, you just need to tweak them, I think going back to your original intent is the best way to go:
Increase proc chance to 5% (obviously make sure it actually is 5%)l)
Reduce heal multiplier to 0.25 instead of 2.0 .
Keep it that way a fews weeks and then iterate on the 25% value again if needs be, no need to do anything complicated. That's my proposal on the matter, do with it as you wish.
After reading all those post I have to say some people need to take a step back from posting for a bit, on both sides of the fence. The personal attacks and insults are not going to help but rather hinder. Being passionate about it is one thing but going into a rage will either cause this to be nerfed into the ground or to just be ignored as standard forum nerf posts.
I have the ship / generator and I have used it on my big double D, my tiny T'varo and Mogai. Of the 3 ships I doubt I will use it on anything other than the Mogai, the set up of my others it just isn't worth not having some other item instead.
On my double D I run it as a beam boat / tank and the shield heal is not really helping, logs show the generator heal is almost all ways an over-heal due to my eng captain and boff powers doing the majority of my healing. Log parsing shows average 1.7% proc rate on this ship.
T'Varo I run 2 torps (sometimes 3) , a dual beam and 2x DHC (sometimes one). On scatter volley on big groups the generator provides a ton of shield healing but for regular play I still pop like a balloon. I show closer to 1.4% average proc rate on this ship.
Mogai I run 3x DHC , 3x Turrets and a torp, of the three the shield heal seems to be most consistent / helpful. I still get a lot of over healing but it does provide the best benefit to this ship. Proc rate shows average of 2% on log parsing.
I also had bad luck as some runs I was getting under 1% proc rate.
I have not run this in PvP or on CE event just regular play / stf / elite stf , it seems to me from the data I have gathered the generator is OP with certain builds / power synergy more so than in general. An adjustment to control were that is the worst is in order but also a possible buff to help were it truly under performs.
And over healing should definitely not count in competitive rankings, or we need to start counting any miss as they could have done x amount of damage ... fix that please.
I usually don't post but I am so damn tired of watching you polluting this thread with bull**** and nonsense pages after pages. There is only one fact here and that is the console doesn't proc anywhere near often enough, I stoped counting how many times I went through 10 seconds gaps or even longer without a proc. The console is too spiky and that needs to be fixed.
Who the hell do you think you are to spew lies and petty judgement on our purchase?
I declare that the heal on this console is mostly fine just need a small adjustment and I don't give a rat's TRIBBLE abour your worthless opinion on the matter. No way I am letting a hater like you butcher this console.
If you don't like it , take the console off your ship but you sure as hell don't try to mess my mine. Go back to your pvper world with the likes of you.
it never ceases to amaze me what pathetic TRIBBLE you people will say next. typical escort use yielded these results, i have proven it 6 times in this thread beyond a shadow of a doubt. no amount of denial on your part will change the facts, it really must take a broken mind to deny photographic evidence.
turned on /combatlog 1 wile doing a bit of rep grinding, did azura rescue and vault ensnared. both of these missions are full of enemies that take about 5 seconds or less to kill each, so i had no opportunity to really have sustained fire on anything, the vast majority were a skid mark in less then a second actually. here the entire log of those 2 missions, again produced by the ship in the green link in my sig.
You and almost everyone else that is calling this a "Bug" and calling for a "nerf" - is in fact a primary PvP player!!
except for the Crystal entity mission- just ONE mission out of 30? that take healing into the ranking rewards - removing healing from the rank rewards would nulify all the arguments that this is getting to place by healing.
and there is like 2 other competetive pve missions -frankly I don't hear any PvE only players complaining.
So you are saying that i need to back off by asking them to take their time reviewing "all" the data and not just "data" provided by primary PvP players like yourself? It shows who has the real motives to get this console nerfed.
And I don't claim that this console does not need an adjustment - or a tone down - just that they should take time doing it - there are lots of factors -and yes players perception of Cryptic - especially new loR players - IS - a major consideration. This IS a business!
LOL... Really.. I mean really... If its broke in PVP its just as broke in PVE... Yeah it probably is more spoken out by actual players that do PVP because its actual players that it effects... In PVE the enemy dont have no voice but if they did I bet the BORG or other NPC's would be screaming its broke also ... Always funny to me how ppl that use broken stuff whether it be for PVP or PVE always says no its not broke ... Wish the Borg and other NPC's could talk or better yet wish they could equipp the damm thing so you couldnt kill them either maybe then you would change your mind...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Target locked Captain....Alpha loaded....5,4,3,2,1.... Target dead captain, locking on next target
I'm really glad to have found this post... I was about to get the valdore for the console...
Now I'll wait to see it nerfed to oblivion and save money at the same time....
Thank you for this post I've bought al lot of ships in the past just to see them or their consoles nerfed badly after reaching their targeted sale income... As a kdf dedicate player I really appreciate this... its a step in the right direction
It's ironic that people complain about this console healing too much, while other players struggle with the Romulan power level penalty and not even this console saves them in ESTFs http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=754001
It's ironic that people complain about this console healing too much, while other players struggle with the Romulan power level penalty and not even this console saves them in ESTFs http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=754001
They're probably not accounting for the lack of Reputation powers and Borg set items, etc.
I have never used the Valdore console in PvP and I have found I am all but unkillable on elite STFs.
I don't have Borg or MACO set items yet, only T3 Omega and Rom rep.
Based on my experience with ACT, I never found it to be very accurate, I always prefer more practical tests then logs parsed by a 3rd party program using amatuer designed plugins. I do things like timing how long I can take transformers down by myself and comparing it to how long I take when using other builds when testing DPS. I think a more practical test is needed for this console also. Lets see how long you last against the Crystaline Entity on elite solo while maintaining DHC firing the whole time with the console then sub it for another console and do it at least ten times each. I doubt there will be much difference, I still die on it either way.
Based on my experience with ACT, I never found it to be very accurate, I always prefer more practical tests then logs parsed by a 3rd party program using amatuer designed plugins. I do things like timing how long I can take transformers down by myself and comparing it to how long I take when using other builds when testing DPS. I think a more practical test is needed for this console also. Lets see how long you last against the Crystaline Entity on elite solo while maintaining DHC firing the whole time with the console then sub it for another console and do it at least ten times each. I doubt there will be much difference, I still die on it either way.
This is so jive. I'm about out of strength on this issue, but I gotta call bullcrap on blaming ACT for making this heal look bad. ACT may miss stuff like plasma damage or shield drains but the ridonkulous heal numbers are clearly visible if you have floaters on. I see 30K four times, it shows up in ACT.
If anything, ACT has a history of under reporting.
The heals off of this thing are bonkers, and until some people circled the wagons and decided to defend it logs and parsed data was the standard for examining how something is performing.
We're not going off of "gut" here, or any "practical tests" that have some randomly chosen benchmark. There's a number. It floats above your ship 4 times because each facing is getting healed for that much. It's a giant number. ACT can help list those numbers because raw logs are just that.
It's a giant number. ACT isn't making it up.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
This is so jive. I'm about out of strength on this issue, but I gotta call bullcrap on blaming ACT for making this heal look bad. ACT may miss stuff like plasma damage or shield drains but the ridonkulous heal numbers are clearly visible if you have floaters on. I see 30K four times, it shows up in ACT.
If anything, ACT has a history of under reporting.
The heals off of this thing are bonkers, and until some people circled the wagons and decided to defend it logs and parsed data was the standard for examining how something is performing.
We're not going off of "gut" here, or any "practical tests" that have some randomly chosen benchmark. There's a number. It floats above your ship 4 times because each facing is getting healed for that much. It's a giant number. ACT can help list those numbers because raw logs are just that.
It's a giant number. ACT isn't making it up.
i have to echo this. act is not making mistakes here, there is a very clear log entry created here, you can see it in the in game log, and you can see the heal float above the ship. this is not a plasma proc getting confused with actual plasma damage, or anything else ACT has made a mistake processing in the past.
if act was making a mistake, it would be under reporting these procs. its not displaying procs that do not happen, thats not possible. every act log ive posted is 100% accurate, displaying EXACTLY how this console acts
Comments
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Using the console I can still be killed by SNB and focus fire just like without using the console since shield resists and tac team will be gone all of the heals won't matter, it might just buy you a few seconds more. Chances are if you are in a situation where you were going to die, you will still probably die anyway using this console.
It helps you resist pressure DPS, but that is a joke anyway. I only use this console on my Mogai to make the 2 piece set, if the set bonus wasn't something I want, I wouldn't even bother wasting a console slot on it. I switch ships every day or 2, and never use this console in my Fleet Dhelan, Fleet T'Varo, or Fleet D'Deridex because it isn't really necessary. If this is nerfed at all, that will mean you have to slot 2 useless consoles on the Mogai to make the 2 piece set rather then the situation we have now where we slot 1 moderatley useful console the SAFG and 1 bad console the negative ion charger.
Main thing that would make me mad about the nerf is not so much losing shield heals, but I specifically got both consoles for the 2 piece bonus, and expect to have at lease some utility from each console individually since I am giving up 2 console slots for the bonus.
Not a smart thing to do if PWE wants to continue selling ships that have console sets.
First person (mr. Polaron cannons)
Assuming that it must have proc'd on one target as the overall damage for the same second trumps the heal provided. Discarding misses because they dealt no damage obviously.
9472 heal
9472 / 2 = 4736 target number.
Target 4 (cuts off to :39 mark here so I didn't add this in below)
1236 + 874 = 2110
Target 3
1206 + (285) + 51 + 1246 + 988 = 3776
Minus shield hits = 3491
Target 2
1238 + (612) + 109 = 1959
Minus shield hits = 1347
Target 1
570 + 302 + 2167 + 567 + (516) + 67 = 4189
Minus shield hits = 3673
Targets 1-3 added up = 9924
Minus shields = 8511
Second Person (Full Plasma loadout)
I discarded the Pet damage attributed due to the use of a Nimbus Pirate Distress Call. Also some confusion because of DHC/Turret chunks. May have been a target out of DHC arc. (Also I realized I was looking at the data backwards to forwards here)
13566 heal
13566 / 2 = 6783 target number
Chunk 1 Turrets
(437) + 56 + (413) + 53 + 600 = 1599
Minus shields = 709
Chunk 2 Turrets
(266) + 233 + (423) + 55 + (179) + 991 + 952 = 3099
Minus shields = 2231
Chunk 3 Turrets
(462) + 60 + 615 + (276) + 143 = 1566
Minus shields = 818
Chunk 1 DHCs
2087 + (1749) + 226 + 2162 = 6244
Minus shields = 4475
Chunk 2 DHCs
1845 + (1565) + 202 + 1816 = 5428
Minus shields = 3863
Chunk comparison
DHC 1 + Turret 1 = 7843 (5184 w/o shields)
DHC 1 + Turret 2 = 9343 (6706)
DHC 1 + Turret 3 = 7810 (5293)
DHC 2 + Turret 1 = 7081 (4572)
DHC 2 + Turret 2 = 8527 (6094)
DHC 2 + Turret 3 = 6994 (4681)
Couple of close numbers there but still no exacts.
I discarded the last couple of sets because that was during a Crystalline Catastrophe and so my Data is unreliable there. The above two are from a Starbase Fleet Alert so while I can't claim them to be 100% accurate I'm certain they're 90% accurate. (Still learning all the nuances of the combatlog, /combatlog 1 and ACT.)
Another note for ACT parsers: 'All outgoing [Ref]' may help by showing all the numbers next to each other. (Will endeavor for more accurate logs, though I don't have the console myself so I'm at the mercy of others using it.)
Secondly: if you have good luck this console is broken so yeah it needs a nerf. I just hate relying on luck.
How about this:
Nerf the heal to useless (This is cryptic so it will 100% get nerfed to being useless as Cryptic already made money off it) and swap it with the 2 piece bonus. That way people that want the 2 piece bonus such as myself (+5weap power and +25 weapon drain resist) will still have one useful thing that we can rely on/control without having to waste 2 console slots.
The ionized particle beam console is a lost cause, cryptic will never improve it that is guaranteed. Look at all the TRIBBLE fed consoles. (Only use for this is to slow people but on 3 min cooldown and having to wait for the proc to even be able to get this effect make it worthless)
Now please bear in mind that I'm not picking on you, most of your post is quite agreeable and I can concur with what you've said.
However this whole, "It's all overhealing/ACT tells lies" canard really bugs me. Just because ridiculous healing figures are 'overheals' does not make them balanced. Any 'overheal' by definition is a 100% effective heal. There is no damage short of fatal that you could've taken where an 'overheal' wouldn't bring you straight back to perfect health.
There are others (not you specifically) who imply that ACT is telling fibs, or can't accurately depict "the whole situation" or whatever. ACT doesn't do anything other than present log data into an easier-to-read format. Bar anomalies like tet glider we understand the game pretty well at this point. When an enormous figure is there it's because something in the game that isn't working right produced it. Last time this happened it was due to BFI DOffs (and the parser correctly predicted this), this is not anything new.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
You do know it does not heal hulls, right?
Also, any overheal by definition can be 100% wasted healing, especially if you are undamaged.
If this console had a cooldown you would have half of a point when it came to "wasted healing" (still not a good point, but getting there). However this console comes at absolutely zero cost other than a console slot. It would be like describing the Embassy console procs as "wasted healing", it's just absurd. You're at 100% shields and you haven't put any important BOff skills on cooldown; you haven't put anything on cooldown actually. There's nothing lost no matter how much you heal.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
But there is nothing gained either. And the procs are entirely at random. It may proc little to nothing when you need it in a fight.
'Nothing cost - Nothing gained' is meaningless and a canceled out argument.
The random issue, while valid, is weighted towards being reliable for when you need it because of the per-shot proc mechanic. (IE you're more likely to get a proc when you need it because you're getting more procs period.)
'Little to nothing' is subjective. Average shield capacity at high end is around 8k and most procs aside from the bonkers 10k+ heal for around 2-4k. So you can assume that you're getting around 1/4 to 1/2 of your shields healed per proc.
2-4k Shield healing is getting into EPtS III and Miracle Worker levels of shield healing, both which have cooldowns limiting how often they can be used.
That, combined with the per-shot proc mechanic leading to more procs, means that you have a reliable, frequent, and powerful source of shield healing.
In one of my examples, the only other heal that was used by that person was a single Aux to Struct. All the rest was from the console.
Speaking of I don't have any more data to provide/math out at this time.
i dont see all that much to debug. maybe theres some modifiers a bit out of control ballooning some heals much larger then they should be. but thats hardly the biggest problem, regardless they are a proc for a full shield heal.
this consoles main issue is that the proc magnitude and the heal magnitude is hilariously larger then it has a right to be. every proc were your not at full shields already is completely game changing. to get an equivalent to even the small heals like this, we have had to wait for EPtS to cycle, use TSS, bfi doffs, RSP, all to get heals a fraction of the size that this console those out literally every other second. this is some perspective the rest of you desperately need to gain. all those other shield healers have at least a 30 second cooldown before you can use them again too.
like i said, im not so good at math, good catch. what does a 1.29% proc chance look like? a proc as often as my screenshots show. with how many shots you fire, obviously 1.29% is too high. this really puts into perspective how often you get a proc on a per shot thing. that 2 part borg weapon/console set must be procing a lot more often then i thought it was.
Was not really going to comment more on this matter - but this is something huge that seems to be so-for overlooked.(although dontdrunkimshoot did acknowledge the issue)
I usually don't post but I am so damn tired of watching you polluting this thread with bull**** and nonsense pages after pages. There is only one fact here and that is the console doesn't proc anywhere near often enough, I stoped counting how many times I went through 10 seconds gaps or even longer without a proc. The console is too spiky and that needs to be fixed.
Who the hell do you think you are to spew lies and petty judgement on our purchase?
I declare that the heal on this console is mostly fine just need a small adjustment and I don't give a rat's TRIBBLE abour your worthless opinion on the matter. No way I am letting a hater like you butcher this console.
If you don't like it , take the console off your ship but you sure as hell don't try to mess my mine. Go back to your pvper world with the likes of you.
Now that this nasty buisness is done here is the feedback part for Archon:
I don't pretend to teach you how to do your job but I think you're just way overthinking this, no need to add a cap or anything requiring more coding.
The console is foundamentally fine,the concept is sound and it mostly do what is it supposed to do, just a little too much of it. I mean really you have more important things to do that redesign a console that works just because of some forum trolls in this thread, their opinion is irrelevant .
You have two variable already, you just need to tweak them, I think going back to your original intent is the best way to go:
Increase proc chance to 5% (obviously make sure it actually is 5%)l)
Reduce heal multiplier to 0.25 instead of 2.0 .
Keep it that way a fews weeks and then iterate on the 25% value again if needs be, no need to do anything complicated. That's my proposal on the matter, do with it as you wish.
I have the ship / generator and I have used it on my big double D, my tiny T'varo and Mogai. Of the 3 ships I doubt I will use it on anything other than the Mogai, the set up of my others it just isn't worth not having some other item instead.
On my double D I run it as a beam boat / tank and the shield heal is not really helping, logs show the generator heal is almost all ways an over-heal due to my eng captain and boff powers doing the majority of my healing. Log parsing shows average 1.7% proc rate on this ship.
T'Varo I run 2 torps (sometimes 3) , a dual beam and 2x DHC (sometimes one). On scatter volley on big groups the generator provides a ton of shield healing but for regular play I still pop like a balloon. I show closer to 1.4% average proc rate on this ship.
Mogai I run 3x DHC , 3x Turrets and a torp, of the three the shield heal seems to be most consistent / helpful. I still get a lot of over healing but it does provide the best benefit to this ship. Proc rate shows average of 2% on log parsing.
I also had bad luck as some runs I was getting under 1% proc rate.
I have not run this in PvP or on CE event just regular play / stf / elite stf , it seems to me from the data I have gathered the generator is OP with certain builds / power synergy more so than in general. An adjustment to control were that is the worst is in order but also a possible buff to help were it truly under performs.
And over healing should definitely not count in competitive rankings, or we need to start counting any miss as they could have done x amount of damage ... fix that please.
it never ceases to amaze me what pathetic TRIBBLE you people will say next. typical escort use yielded these results, i have proven it 6 times in this thread beyond a shadow of a doubt. no amount of denial on your part will change the facts, it really must take a broken mind to deny photographic evidence.
https://i.minus.com/iwYQBFTlEwRWz.JPG
https://i5.minus.com/i37WRJkoyc2A.JPG
https://i1.minus.com/ibb9ySXaTNkCdi.JPG
https://i.minus.com/ibyT0mfphGClp6.JPG
seriously.
Let's forget about "over-healing", "proc rates" & "PvP".
Let's also ignore "combatlogs" and "scoreboards".
When I do Elite STFs in my Mogai Warbird with the Valdore Console I almost never need to heal my shields.
Actually on my build I only have EPTS, TT and RSP.
I don't have any T4 omega rep yet, or T4 rom rep.
I almost never need RSP anymore, I'm thinking of dropping it for something more useful.
The only thing I seem to need with this console is TT.
Now I'll wait to see it nerfed to oblivion and save money at the same time....
Thank you for this post I've bought al lot of ships in the past just to see them or their consoles nerfed badly after reaching their targeted sale income... As a kdf dedicate player I really appreciate this... its a step in the right direction
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=754001
They're probably not accounting for the lack of Reputation powers and Borg set items, etc.
I have never used the Valdore console in PvP and I have found I am all but unkillable on elite STFs.
I don't have Borg or MACO set items yet, only T3 Omega and Rom rep.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
That's why I prefer to finance than lease.
If anything, ACT has a history of under reporting.
The heals off of this thing are bonkers, and until some people circled the wagons and decided to defend it logs and parsed data was the standard for examining how something is performing.
We're not going off of "gut" here, or any "practical tests" that have some randomly chosen benchmark. There's a number. It floats above your ship 4 times because each facing is getting healed for that much. It's a giant number. ACT can help list those numbers because raw logs are just that.
It's a giant number. ACT isn't making it up.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
My practical tests are all gut based.
If I die on the crystalline entity it is usually with full shields.
Or, on STFs I no longer need any shield heals, just sometimes TT and maybe once or two times I need RSP.
i have to echo this. act is not making mistakes here, there is a very clear log entry created here, you can see it in the in game log, and you can see the heal float above the ship. this is not a plasma proc getting confused with actual plasma damage, or anything else ACT has made a mistake processing in the past.
if act was making a mistake, it would be under reporting these procs. its not displaying procs that do not happen, thats not possible. every act log ive posted is 100% accurate, displaying EXACTLY how this console acts