1.) I cannot or will not adapt to find new tactics or strategies to punish enemies who act so predictably that I know exactly what they will do in response to MY actions which I control.
2.) I cannot or will not consider that there might be any way that the devs could come up with a technique I haven't yet seen to mitigate the turn rate issues of the D'Deridex even though I know it will come with powers I haven't yet seen.
3.) I cannot or will not stop yelling "NO NO NO" about the current changes, demanding that the game continue to play exactly the way it has been playing despite the fact that there's problems with that too.
In short dontdrunkimshoot, I'm getting tired of you repeating the same things that are barely on topic for the forum in question. You're nagging about a ship you haven't played, you're nagging about a rules change that is not relevant to this topic, and you're nagging that PvP will go differently and you can't be bothered to adapt. Please say something new. Please don't say something until you have something new to say.
Sorry devs, I know you're probably going to have to smack this post down, but it has to be said.
I don't know what's been cooked up for the D'Deridex, I'm quite unfond of big heavy ships, but I'll reserve judgement until I have the chance to try it.
(At least, unlike the Galaxy-R, I'm getting the ship for free).
i covered every angle, theres is no adapting strategy that i missed, or exists. you are locked into a course of action because of system cooldowns, thats whats predictable, not the player.
i know how to exploit the openings the EPt changes create, its child's play. i know how these changes have a ripple effect into everything, is blatantly obvious to those of us pvping for 3 years. ive played with them on tribble plenty as well. there, passed your HURRDURR test it first inane requirement.
your telling me i haven't played the ship? a stat clone of a ship i have played a whole bunch? instead of saucer sep, its got battle cloak, ive used battle cloak a lot, i know its ins and outs. if its cloaking to escape and is already damaged, battle cloaking under fire is suicide, it drops shields. a big fat heavy ship is not going to outrun attackers ether, something that large will also be easy to bump into wile claoked, and be close enough to shoot.
instead of 200 base energy its got 160 base energy and a few gimmick singularity abilities with long cooldowns that needs to be charged. these fix none of the fundamental turn rate problems, or change the station setup which is so bad its a non starter. i know that, because i have build craft down to a science, and one again HURRDURR ive tested it or used it in practice FOR YEARS.
No, we felt that this would make Romulan players feel too "forced" toward using Plasma weaponry. They already have a lot of incentives to use Plasma.
Currently, it scales with Particle Generators skill and items that improve Exotic Damage.
Plasma is one of the more...complicated (I've heard some say convoluted)...things to deal with in the game when it comes to buffing the damage of it.
Personally, I have no experience with the Romulan Threat-Scaling Science Consoles and their [Pla] modifier, but I have heard from several people that they work like the Plasma Infusers Tac Console.
There were a few funky things that have been resolved (which is good); but that being said, this is what I have found to be the case with Plasma otherwise...
Plasma Infuser:
Directed Energy
Directed Energy DoT
Projectile DoT
Eject Warp Plasma
Ambiplasma:
Projectile DoT
(Projectile Kinetic)
Particle Generators:
Eject Warp Plasma
2pc Romulan Harness:
Directed Energy
Directed Energy DoT
So now we have the Plasma Shockwave, does Plasma damage - and is buffed by Particle Generators (as well as Exotic boosting - so uh, the Sci trait?).
As I mentioned, Plasma is a wee bit complicated, eh? Is there any chance of this ever being simplified somewhere down the road?
Plasma Infuser: Buffs DEW, DEW DoT, Proj DoT, EWP
Ambiplasma: Bufs Proj Kinetic, Proj DoT
Particle Gen: Buffs EWP, Plasma Shockwave
2pc Harness: Buffs DEW, DEW DoT
Rom Sci [Pla]: ?Infuser?Harness?One day I'll grab one and see.
One could see where somebody* could go with a Plasma build - Infusers, Rom PrtG [Pla], Harness, etc, etc, etc. Could have fun there**, eh?
Why does the Ambiplasma console exist? For a Plasma Projectile build? You'll lose out on the damage bonus from the Harness and potentially the Rom Sci. PrtG doesn't do anything for DEW nor Proj, so that's not a consideration.
*Course, that would be a Tac or Sci. Cause, even though you need the Eng BOFF for the EWP, the Eng can't buff it like the Tac. Then you've got the Plasma Shockwave which the Tac and Sci can buff.
**Of course, that fun is easily ruined by how quickly HE can be spammed to nullify the DoT aspect of Plasma (an aspect that has been worked into the overall damage of the weapons/abilities - thus, leaving them weaker than other weapons/abilities). Heck, the Borg proc - etc, etc, etc.
It's just a curious situation there...the Plasma thing. Can definitely see not wanting to give the appearance to players of forcing them into a subpar selection. Mind you, two of my guys are primarily Plasma - c'mon, it's fun to cook people with full shields, am I right? There's no doubt that if there wasn't HE or the Borg proc, etc, etc, etc - it would be massively OP. The sheer number of PDoTs I can load up on folks would be a slaughter. There has to be some sort of middle-ground though - not this on/off thing.
Leaves no doubt about it's origin, and removes the potential confusion. Also: sounds cool.
It's not the first Plasma doohickey not buffed by Plasma doohickeys... would be nifty if the overall Plasma situation were reviewed. Naming it something else, though...wouldn't address the problem - rather, it would just complicate things further. The underlying issue would remain.
I've only run played with the first ship for a few missions, and I was a little underwhelmed with the singularity mechanic. It never seemed to do much when I fired it off even at level 5. Something that requires charging through combat is always problematic, as by the time you get to use it either the enemy is dead or you are. I could see it;s use in a cruiser or something to detonate one enemy after they have scratched at my hull for a while or something. But right now not impressed. Maybe have it fully charged when you go to red alert in order to give a full alpha strike as you decloak. Or maybe have it charge up while cloaked.
Oh and read the Drunks post on turn rates as I agree with every word. Cruisers are pretty naff even in PVE now. I fly an Orion marauder on one of ly character and I got First place in CE tonight, but that has fighters and it has a sci instead of a eng engineering slot. AND its got a turn rate of 7! Even that slight change was enough to make my beam cruiser that little bit more flyable and enjoyable to fight in. The game has turned into maneuverable escorts, you might as well give the cruisers a chance to turn.
And, you know what makes the NPC D'deridex so nasty in missions? It uses sci powers! I mean look at the abilities it has (according to STOwiki)
Tractor Beam
Viral Matrix
Photonic Shock Wave
Torpedo: High Yield III
Torpedo: Spread II
Beam Array: Overload III
This ship is NOT an eng failboat. I'm really hoping the stats are just placeholders.
1.) I cannot or will not adapt to find new tactics or strategies to punish enemies who act so predictably that I know exactly what they will do in response to MY actions which I control.
Except that when something is actually hamstringed it's not about finding new tactics and strategies. Bad turn rates and redundant slots (three ensign engineering slots, where there are only two cooldowns) is just flat out inferior.
Sure, you can find a way to function with a broken leg, but you still have a broken leg. In a butt kicking contest you're coming in last unless you're going up against someone else with a broken leg or two.
2.) I cannot or will not consider that there might be any way that the devs could come up with a technique I haven't yet seen to mitigate the turn rate issues of the D'Deridex even though I know it will come with powers I haven't yet seen.
Limited/timed powers/advantages used to offset a permanent, crippling disadvantage doesn't work. Unless they give a power that essentially has 100% up-time which increases turn rate then anything they do won't be enough, and if they're going to do that then they aren't very bright because they could have just increased the turn rate.
3.) I cannot or will not stop yelling "NO NO NO" about the current changes, demanding that the game continue to play exactly the way it has been playing despite the fact that there's problems with that too.
And he shouldn't stop yelling it. It's fundamentally a bad ship design. It's an existing design that everyone complains about, and hey... it's not getting fixed. Now that they're trying to introduce it again maybe now it's time to fix things. No? Or should everyone just accept what doesn't work and either (a) fly a different ship, because some options aren't actually viable options or (b) fly sub-par garbage to be different, because every PvP and STF team loves to have to shoulder other peoples' burdens.
Oh, by the way - just wanted to say the Brown skin option, which gives the ships an aged bronze look/copper look - is pretty damn awesome as far as the visuals go. Just wanted to add that.
It's kind of funny looking at this Mogai...it has that mint chocolate/chocolate mint thing going for it. Kind of cool.
This ship is NOT an eng failboat. I'm really hoping the stats are just placeholders.
indeed. the D'deridex should be a high risk, high reward, huge but somewhat brittle alpha striking death dealer, like it was consistently in canon. when used as a ship of the line it got massacred over and over in the dominion war, its not a typical cruiser tank, its a warbird.
personally, i think it should have a whole new stat combination. like how destroyers are tac heavy station setups with cruiser stats, warbirds should be sci heavy, tac secondary ships with cruiser stats. something like this
When you have ACTUALLY FLOWN the D'D and made that conclusion, I will be right there listening.
I plan to, but the reality is after constant PvP there is nothing that ship can do, excluding the singularity mechanics which I plan to test, that leads me to think this ship will ever be useful in PvP.
There are somethings working against it to start, Cruisers for one are already generally a bad choice for Premades and only average at best in PUG/PUGmade matches (They can still make solid healers).
Second it has that BOFF layout.
It was a bad BOFF layout before, with the new EPTx Cooldowns, it's actually even worse now.
On top of that, beams and pressure DPS are basically dead in PvP right now against any mediocre player. Dead. This is not hyperbole.
Unlike in PvE where enemies don't move much, and a Turn rate of 5.5 is just frustrating, in PvP its a critcal stat that is extremely important.
But until then, they need to stick to their guns and not make changes based on ships that you have flown that are NOT the D'D. Fair enough? Cut the devs some slack, they DO do this for a living.[/quote]
To my knowledge, none of the Devs PvP for a living.
If any of them do, they should step forward and be hailed and adored as the new STO PvP Czar.
I'm kidding, I know what you meant.
The truth is that designing powers/ships and actually knowing how those things work in this game's PvP environment really are two different things.
This might get me some flak, but even a good portion of frequent PvPers don't even have a clear angle on PvP combat, much less a development team that has regularly admitted to not pvping much, if at all.
We'd love to have them join us, we love when JHeinig stops by in OPvP and /targets hale, we love when Bort takes pity on us and fixes the current gorgon (power/item) that has been released from hades (Speaking of which, Bort Tet Warp Plasma on Danubes with Chrons and TB3 ? Save us Bort-i-wan, you're our only hope!).
If they could only take that one extra step and PvP with us....;)
I appreciate that, and a lot of the other designers are paying attention to the feedback here, too. They're just not quite as talkative as I am.
And your interaction is appreciated, sorry if you have to bear the brunt of 3years of pent up nerd rage against the Galaxy-R's turn rate and boff layout. Seriously though, there have been literally hundreds of posts on this.
Want to add that -40 power penalty is just waaaaay too high for a gimicky power that takes forever to charge/recharge.
While I agree currently, I feel it important to point out it's not quite -40 power. It's -10 to each power setting. You'll get more benefit out of efficiency abilities because of that. You won't make up the loss the in power completely [or even mostly] but it is slightly different than a flat -40.
[ edit / add ]
Bleh thinking about it, it's not even really better described that way either, -40 power is more than fair, because we still assign power to each system from a total bank. So bleh. In any event efficiency still does perform better for romulan ships because of the lower power levels.
In regard to the -40, I didn't roll Eng (surprise, surprise) - but I have to wonder - how much of that Eng running 125/125/125/125 where there was likely non-Wep overcap taking place and being wasted - will let the Eng shine in the Rom ships compared to other vessels.
Will be interesting to see how the lower values play out with WCP/WCE as folks gear up and level up. People won't be taking the full -40 hit, and it was balanced around taking that -40 hit...then it won't be balanced.
On the power levels being lower: I really don't know exactly how the math works myself, but I'd like if someone who does would be good enough to do the math on what kind of difference the captain's Warp Core Efficiency stat makes relative to what you might call a "normal" setup (say 100/50/25/25 just for the sake of having something to work with), vs. a "Romulan" setup (90/40/15/15).
I know that the lower your rating is the more effect Efficiency has, and past 75 it has no effect at all. But could someone work out the "true" difference if we assume that skill was maxed in both cases?
Math may not be fun but it is good to know.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
While I agree currently, I feel it important to point out it's not quite -40 power. It's -10 to each power setting. You'll get more benefit out of efficiency abilities because of that. You won't make up the loss the in power completely [or even mostly] but it is slightly different than a flat -40.
of all the things that there are to test, that actually, truly, need to be tested to know for sure, its what impact these lower power levels will have on an end game, fully geared ship. how will it all shake out at level 50.
every warbird user is a fool to not try to max the efficiency skill though, thats for sure.
of all the things that there are to test, that actually, truly, need to be tested to know for sure, its what impact these lower power levels will have on an end game, fully geared ship. how will it all shake out at level 50.
every warbird user is a fool to not try to max the efficiency skill though, thats for sure.
Yep, and I'm hoping that romulans get boffs with access to Efficient, instead of having to troll the exchange for Saurians / Letheans... Hoping the lib borg Rom captain + Lib rem Borg boff come with Eff too though.
I found a Bug in that you can jump up onto the singularity core inside your ship then fall to the bottom and are stuck there till you log out or change toons.
I agree that the -10 power levels is a little high, unless the singularity powers get a shorter cooldown. Right now it seems that if I was in a D'D and trying to get more maneuverability out of my singularity powers, I'd hate being stuck with the long cooldowns.
Given that they need some time to charge anyway, perhaps a 15 or 20 second "offline" time is more appropriate.
Otherwise, if the powers are going to remain kinda like console powers with the long cooldown, I wouldn't like to trade 10 power from all systems for it.
just customized my warbird for the first time! thought the brown was an interesting touch.
however it would be nice if a metallic dark grey (like the old romulan uniform). would be nice. also, some kind of glow or train from the nacelles would be cool. love the singularity btw.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]We Are Phoenix Rebirth. Rising from the Ashes we are reborn again and again and continue to grow as fire burning across the Milky Way galaxy.
Ive been playing tonight and have reached level 16 so have had some time to play with the romulan ships.
Firstly i'd like to say as a whole im very happy with the new mechanics. Never really played with Battle Cloaks before.
Secondly I feel 1 minute + charge up time is a bit too long for the singularity core cooldown.
I feel it needs to be more than 30 seconds, cos that is the cooldown on most Boff skills, but then again it takes a good 15 seconds+ to charge up to max level. I haven't timed it but i suspect its another 30 seconds or so.
In light of this, and the fact that having done the maths i'm not sure any romulan ship will be able to run at 125 power in weapons due to the -10 in every subsystem penalty, the lockout timer on the singularity core could be lowered to 30 seconds. This way we would get to fire off weakass abilities every 35 seconds or so and decent abilities every minute or so.
With regards to the -10 to all subsystems I think this might be a little extreme if the cooldown on singularity cores isnt lowered.
Correct my maths if it is bad.
105/100 weapons base (assuming a ship has +15 to weapons)
+5 for borg console
+5 for warp core potential skill
= only 115
You could spec into Weapon Performance but its a horribly expensive skill past 3 points which would still only leave you at 120 weapon power. No way do any good ship builds have room for a weapon power engineering console.
Just a concern of mine. Can't really tell how it plays out without being at max level which we cant do yet.
I like the singularity mechanic and its fun to use in combat BUT having -10 power to all systems constantly is basically terrible and the singularity power doesn't seem to compensate at all.
A charging bonus to one subsystem and a cooldown power doesn't make up for this at all, since at best you're just solving the drain in one subsystem and the rest are awful.
I really like the quantum absorption ability...but what good are extra hit points if there isn't at least a marginal hull heal to compensate for that extra hull?
I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
Alright, so I played until 6 in the morning yesterday, bad call on my part, but cool on cryptics side, been a long time since I played a game for that long. Specially on a test server. Some initial notes on warbirds:
Like many have mentioned, the cooldown on the singularity charge is somewhat un-intuitive and undynamic. I saw someone mentioned the cooldown should reduce if you use a lower charge level. I agree with this, because I noticed thinking too myself during combat, watching the charge slowly rise, "No I don't want to use it now, I need the full effect or I'm just wasting time."
My suggestion? Max cooldown, 45 seconds, min, 15 seconds. Global cooldown on singularity abilities should be something like 15, maybe 20 seconds. This would allow me too fire off singularity abilities rather quickly at charge level 1, I'd say about every 35 seconds, which is right on the money for Boff powers. Self cooldowns should be a bog standard 1 minute, no matter which ability it is. FINALLY, this SHOULD correct all other problems, even the pathetic D'D.
Let me put this into context:
The D'deridex, before you ask anything else, is powered by a miniature black hole, and thus has a singularity jump, BUT THIS IS ALL.
Does a jump console help the bortasq at all? No, I've had it used against me, it is only a minor and very small temporary annoyance. And this isn't even putting the turn rate into context.
5.5?
Um cryptic, last I knew, the D'deridex wasn't equiped with scorpions. So why did you give this ship the turn rate of a carrier? It takes TWO MINUTES too get this machine too go in a full circle. Fine, they're big ships, but if you're going to do this too the warbirds, the raptors of the romulan fleet, we need something more too work with here, not just "Here's a D'D, ok whats next?"
I AM THE HARBINGER OF HOPE!
I AM THE SWORD OF THE RIGHTOUS!
Personally, I think the idea of banishing every non-KDF cruiser to the heal boat role is silly. I think the whole idea of magical starship heals is silly -- fixing your OWN ship, sure. MAYBE reinforcing somebody else's shields at close range, okay. But click-fix another ship at a distance?
5.5?
Um cryptic, last I knew, the D'deridex wasn't equiped with scorpions. So why did you give this ship the turn rate of a carrier? It takes TWO MINUTES too get this machine too go in a full circle. Fine, they're big ships, but if you're going to do this too the warbirds, the raptors of the romulan fleet, we need something more too work with here, not just "Here's a D'D, ok whats next?"
There is no room for better turn rate. Since Galaxy is a long neglected ship with horrible turn rate, and D'D is always compared to it, you cant simply give it better turn rate than 6 and claim you are true to IP. Because that would be slap and spit to face of every Galaxy customer. I personally think its rather funny situation.
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There is no room for better turn rate. Since Galaxy is a long neglected ship with horrible turn rate, and D'D is always compared to it, you cant simply give it better turn rate than 6 and claim you are true to IP. Because that would be slap and spit to face of every Galaxy customer. I personally think its rather funny situation.
This is something I have to fight. I wasn't talking about room for a better turn rate, nor was I talking about the Galaxy. I'm talking about a better turn rate, period. The D'D isn't a flagship, actually, as far as Romulan specs go, it's a battlecruiser. The D'D is big, yes, but that doesn't mean it has to be slow. Heck, look at some of the Romulan starships in the shows and movies, those things could move, even the mighty scimitar.
For game balance reasons, I'm not asking for a jump to 11 or something like that. Even a turn rate of seven would work enough to be able to use something like, I dunno, a torpedo? Or a dual beam bank?
Also, a slap and spit to the face of every Galaxy customer isn't huge. I've bought nearly every single fed c-store ship in game, and that is the only end game ship I HAVEN'T bought. Mainly cause of how worthless it is.
And this ship is going to end up even worse.
I AM THE HARBINGER OF HOPE!
I AM THE SWORD OF THE RIGHTOUS!
There is no room for better turn rate. Since Galaxy...
...Needs the same (or a similar) boost. And also something done about it's third Ensign Eng slot. Because the Galaxy, you know, sucks. One of the most iconic ships in Star Trek to feature in the game, and it's pretty much collecting dust.
Romulans not having a science ship is something that had me scratching my head too. They've always been portrayed as devious but intelligent, and with science to a level in the ballpark of the Federation.
I think the lack of Rom Sci Vessels may point to a lack of sales of them. While cruisers and escorts simply sell better.
I think the lack of Rom Sci Vessels may point to a lack of sales of them. While cruisers and escorts simply sell better.
Its possible. The kling sci vessels (the Gorn vessels) were the last to be released if I recall correctly. And I rarely if ever see them around on STFs or in space. I fly the Varanus on one of my chars though. Fun ship and a healing monster.
It could possibly be that Science ships got nerfed into the ground so the only people who fly them anymore are the ones who prefer the hull design and lighshows over actual effectiveness.
I can fire a ton of drains and only draw a few power from a target, shield strips are lol and exotic damage doesn't make up for the loss of weapons. You can;t hold anybody and disables only work for 3 seconds.
Comments
i covered every angle, theres is no adapting strategy that i missed, or exists. you are locked into a course of action because of system cooldowns, thats whats predictable, not the player.
i know how to exploit the openings the EPt changes create, its child's play. i know how these changes have a ripple effect into everything, is blatantly obvious to those of us pvping for 3 years. ive played with them on tribble plenty as well. there, passed your HURRDURR test it first inane requirement.
your telling me i haven't played the ship? a stat clone of a ship i have played a whole bunch? instead of saucer sep, its got battle cloak, ive used battle cloak a lot, i know its ins and outs. if its cloaking to escape and is already damaged, battle cloaking under fire is suicide, it drops shields. a big fat heavy ship is not going to outrun attackers ether, something that large will also be easy to bump into wile claoked, and be close enough to shoot.
instead of 200 base energy its got 160 base energy and a few gimmick singularity abilities with long cooldowns that needs to be charged. these fix none of the fundamental turn rate problems, or change the station setup which is so bad its a non starter. i know that, because i have build craft down to a science, and one again HURRDURR ive tested it or used it in practice FOR YEARS.
your not getting the D'deridex-R for free btw
Plasma is one of the more...complicated (I've heard some say convoluted)...things to deal with in the game when it comes to buffing the damage of it.
Personally, I have no experience with the Romulan Threat-Scaling Science Consoles and their [Pla] modifier, but I have heard from several people that they work like the Plasma Infusers Tac Console.
There were a few funky things that have been resolved (which is good); but that being said, this is what I have found to be the case with Plasma otherwise...
Plasma Infuser:
Directed Energy
Directed Energy DoT
Projectile DoT
Eject Warp Plasma
Ambiplasma:
Projectile DoT
(Projectile Kinetic)
Particle Generators:
Eject Warp Plasma
2pc Romulan Harness:
Directed Energy
Directed Energy DoT
So now we have the Plasma Shockwave, does Plasma damage - and is buffed by Particle Generators (as well as Exotic boosting - so uh, the Sci trait?).
As I mentioned, Plasma is a wee bit complicated, eh? Is there any chance of this ever being simplified somewhere down the road?
Consider somebody with the following build:
Weapons: Plasma Energy, Plasma Torps, Plasma Mines
BOFF Ability: Eject Warp Plasma
Warbird Ability: Plasma Shockwave
Plasma Infuser: Buffs DEW, DEW DoT, Proj DoT, EWP
Ambiplasma: Bufs Proj Kinetic, Proj DoT
Particle Gen: Buffs EWP, Plasma Shockwave
2pc Harness: Buffs DEW, DEW DoT
Rom Sci [Pla]: ?Infuser?Harness?One day I'll grab one and see.
One could see where somebody* could go with a Plasma build - Infusers, Rom PrtG [Pla], Harness, etc, etc, etc. Could have fun there**, eh?
Why does the Ambiplasma console exist? For a Plasma Projectile build? You'll lose out on the damage bonus from the Harness and potentially the Rom Sci. PrtG doesn't do anything for DEW nor Proj, so that's not a consideration.
*Course, that would be a Tac or Sci. Cause, even though you need the Eng BOFF for the EWP, the Eng can't buff it like the Tac. Then you've got the Plasma Shockwave which the Tac and Sci can buff.
**Of course, that fun is easily ruined by how quickly HE can be spammed to nullify the DoT aspect of Plasma (an aspect that has been worked into the overall damage of the weapons/abilities - thus, leaving them weaker than other weapons/abilities). Heck, the Borg proc - etc, etc, etc.
It's just a curious situation there...the Plasma thing. Can definitely see not wanting to give the appearance to players of forcing them into a subpar selection. Mind you, two of my guys are primarily Plasma - c'mon, it's fun to cook people with full shields, am I right? There's no doubt that if there wasn't HE or the Borg proc, etc, etc, etc - it would be massively OP. The sheer number of PDoTs I can load up on folks would be a slaughter. There has to be some sort of middle-ground though - not this on/off thing.
It's not the first Plasma doohickey not buffed by Plasma doohickeys... would be nifty if the overall Plasma situation were reviewed. Naming it something else, though...wouldn't address the problem - rather, it would just complicate things further. The underlying issue would remain.
Oh and read the Drunks post on turn rates as I agree with every word. Cruisers are pretty naff even in PVE now. I fly an Orion marauder on one of ly character and I got First place in CE tonight, but that has fighters and it has a sci instead of a eng engineering slot. AND its got a turn rate of 7! Even that slight change was enough to make my beam cruiser that little bit more flyable and enjoyable to fight in. The game has turned into maneuverable escorts, you might as well give the cruisers a chance to turn.
And, you know what makes the NPC D'deridex so nasty in missions? It uses sci powers! I mean look at the abilities it has (according to STOwiki)
Tractor Beam
Viral Matrix
Photonic Shock Wave
Torpedo: High Yield III
Torpedo: Spread II
Beam Array: Overload III
This ship is NOT an eng failboat. I'm really hoping the stats are just placeholders.
Except that when something is actually hamstringed it's not about finding new tactics and strategies. Bad turn rates and redundant slots (three ensign engineering slots, where there are only two cooldowns) is just flat out inferior.
Sure, you can find a way to function with a broken leg, but you still have a broken leg. In a butt kicking contest you're coming in last unless you're going up against someone else with a broken leg or two.
Limited/timed powers/advantages used to offset a permanent, crippling disadvantage doesn't work. Unless they give a power that essentially has 100% up-time which increases turn rate then anything they do won't be enough, and if they're going to do that then they aren't very bright because they could have just increased the turn rate.
And he shouldn't stop yelling it. It's fundamentally a bad ship design. It's an existing design that everyone complains about, and hey... it's not getting fixed. Now that they're trying to introduce it again maybe now it's time to fix things. No? Or should everyone just accept what doesn't work and either (a) fly a different ship, because some options aren't actually viable options or (b) fly sub-par garbage to be different, because every PvP and STF team loves to have to shoulder other peoples' burdens.
It's on-topic. And it's important. If you're tried of reading it, stop reading it. Simple solution, no?
It's kind of funny looking at this Mogai...it has that mint chocolate/chocolate mint thing going for it. Kind of cool.
indeed. the D'deridex should be a high risk, high reward, huge but somewhat brittle alpha striking death dealer, like it was consistently in canon. when used as a ship of the line it got massacred over and over in the dominion war, its not a typical cruiser tank, its a warbird.
personally, i think it should have a whole new stat combination. like how destroyers are tac heavy station setups with cruiser stats, warbirds should be sci heavy, tac secondary ships with cruiser stats. something like this
tier 5 D'deridex R
9 turn
3 eng consoles
3 sci consoles
3 tac consoles
COM sci
LTC tac
LT eng
LT eng
ENS uni
Thanks!
I plan to, but the reality is after constant PvP there is nothing that ship can do, excluding the singularity mechanics which I plan to test, that leads me to think this ship will ever be useful in PvP.
There are somethings working against it to start, Cruisers for one are already generally a bad choice for Premades and only average at best in PUG/PUGmade matches (They can still make solid healers).
Second it has that BOFF layout.
It was a bad BOFF layout before, with the new EPTx Cooldowns, it's actually even worse now.
On top of that, beams and pressure DPS are basically dead in PvP right now against any mediocre player. Dead. This is not hyperbole.
Unlike in PvE where enemies don't move much, and a Turn rate of 5.5 is just frustrating, in PvP its a critcal stat that is extremely important.
But until then, they need to stick to their guns and not make changes based on ships that you have flown that are NOT the D'D. Fair enough? Cut the devs some slack, they DO do this for a living.[/quote]
To my knowledge, none of the Devs PvP for a living.
If any of them do, they should step forward and be hailed and adored as the new STO PvP Czar.
I'm kidding, I know what you meant.
The truth is that designing powers/ships and actually knowing how those things work in this game's PvP environment really are two different things.
This might get me some flak, but even a good portion of frequent PvPers don't even have a clear angle on PvP combat, much less a development team that has regularly admitted to not pvping much, if at all.
We'd love to have them join us, we love when JHeinig stops by in OPvP and /targets hale, we love when Bort takes pity on us and fixes the current gorgon (power/item) that has been released from hades (Speaking of which, Bort Tet Warp Plasma on Danubes with Chrons and TB3
If they could only take that one extra step and PvP with us....;)
And your interaction is appreciated, sorry if you have to bear the brunt of 3years of pent up nerd rage against the Galaxy-R's turn rate and boff layout. Seriously though, there have been literally hundreds of posts on this.
While I agree currently, I feel it important to point out it's not quite -40 power. It's -10 to each power setting. You'll get more benefit out of efficiency abilities because of that. You won't make up the loss the in power completely [or even mostly] but it is slightly different than a flat -40.
[ edit / add ]
Bleh thinking about it, it's not even really better described that way either, -40 power is more than fair, because we still assign power to each system from a total bank. So bleh. In any event efficiency still does perform better for romulan ships because of the lower power levels.
Will be interesting to see how the lower values play out with WCP/WCE as folks gear up and level up. People won't be taking the full -40 hit, and it was balanced around taking that -40 hit...then it won't be balanced.
I know that the lower your rating is the more effect Efficiency has, and past 75 it has no effect at all. But could someone work out the "true" difference if we assume that skill was maxed in both cases?
Math may not be fun but it is good to know.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
of all the things that there are to test, that actually, truly, need to be tested to know for sure, its what impact these lower power levels will have on an end game, fully geared ship. how will it all shake out at level 50.
every warbird user is a fool to not try to max the efficiency skill though, thats for sure.
Yep, and I'm hoping that romulans get boffs with access to Efficient, instead of having to troll the exchange for Saurians / Letheans... Hoping the lib borg Rom captain + Lib rem Borg boff come with Eff too though.
Given that they need some time to charge anyway, perhaps a 15 or 20 second "offline" time is more appropriate.
Otherwise, if the powers are going to remain kinda like console powers with the long cooldown, I wouldn't like to trade 10 power from all systems for it.
however it would be nice if a metallic dark grey (like the old romulan uniform). would be nice. also, some kind of glow or train from the nacelles would be cool. love the singularity btw.
Firstly i'd like to say as a whole im very happy with the new mechanics. Never really played with Battle Cloaks before.
Secondly I feel 1 minute + charge up time is a bit too long for the singularity core cooldown.
I feel it needs to be more than 30 seconds, cos that is the cooldown on most Boff skills, but then again it takes a good 15 seconds+ to charge up to max level. I haven't timed it but i suspect its another 30 seconds or so.
In light of this, and the fact that having done the maths i'm not sure any romulan ship will be able to run at 125 power in weapons due to the -10 in every subsystem penalty, the lockout timer on the singularity core could be lowered to 30 seconds. This way we would get to fire off weakass abilities every 35 seconds or so and decent abilities every minute or so.
With regards to the -10 to all subsystems I think this might be a little extreme if the cooldown on singularity cores isnt lowered.
Correct my maths if it is bad.
105/100 weapons base (assuming a ship has +15 to weapons)
+5 for borg console
+5 for warp core potential skill
= only 115
You could spec into Weapon Performance but its a horribly expensive skill past 3 points which would still only leave you at 120 weapon power. No way do any good ship builds have room for a weapon power engineering console.
Just a concern of mine. Can't really tell how it plays out without being at max level which we cant do yet.
You can play at max level. You just have to do it the old-fashioned way through grinding explores.
A charging bonus to one subsystem and a cooldown power doesn't make up for this at all, since at best you're just solving the drain in one subsystem and the rest are awful.
Like many have mentioned, the cooldown on the singularity charge is somewhat un-intuitive and undynamic. I saw someone mentioned the cooldown should reduce if you use a lower charge level. I agree with this, because I noticed thinking too myself during combat, watching the charge slowly rise, "No I don't want to use it now, I need the full effect or I'm just wasting time."
My suggestion? Max cooldown, 45 seconds, min, 15 seconds. Global cooldown on singularity abilities should be something like 15, maybe 20 seconds. This would allow me too fire off singularity abilities rather quickly at charge level 1, I'd say about every 35 seconds, which is right on the money for Boff powers. Self cooldowns should be a bog standard 1 minute, no matter which ability it is. FINALLY, this SHOULD correct all other problems, even the pathetic D'D.
Let me put this into context:
The D'deridex, before you ask anything else, is powered by a miniature black hole, and thus has a singularity jump, BUT THIS IS ALL.
Does a jump console help the bortasq at all? No, I've had it used against me, it is only a minor and very small temporary annoyance. And this isn't even putting the turn rate into context.
5.5?
Um cryptic, last I knew, the D'deridex wasn't equiped with scorpions. So why did you give this ship the turn rate of a carrier? It takes TWO MINUTES too get this machine too go in a full circle. Fine, they're big ships, but if you're going to do this too the warbirds, the raptors of the romulan fleet, we need something more too work with here, not just "Here's a D'D, ok whats next?"
I AM THE SWORD OF THE RIGHTOUS!
There are PvE tanks still?
I AM THE SWORD OF THE RIGHTOUS!
Words of wisdom.
Yes, they are called escorts. You know, those highly eavsive, tough, resilient and hard punching ships.
There is no room for better turn rate. Since Galaxy is a long neglected ship with horrible turn rate, and D'D is always compared to it, you cant simply give it better turn rate than 6 and claim you are true to IP. Because that would be slap and spit to face of every Galaxy customer. I personally think its rather funny situation.
No they aren't.
I'm not gonna argue with this. That said, this phrase alone should be enough to nerf escorts. I'm not saying, I'm just sayin'.
This is something I have to fight. I wasn't talking about room for a better turn rate, nor was I talking about the Galaxy. I'm talking about a better turn rate, period. The D'D isn't a flagship, actually, as far as Romulan specs go, it's a battlecruiser. The D'D is big, yes, but that doesn't mean it has to be slow. Heck, look at some of the Romulan starships in the shows and movies, those things could move, even the mighty scimitar.
For game balance reasons, I'm not asking for a jump to 11 or something like that. Even a turn rate of seven would work enough to be able to use something like, I dunno, a torpedo? Or a dual beam bank?
Also, a slap and spit to the face of every Galaxy customer isn't huge. I've bought nearly every single fed c-store ship in game, and that is the only end game ship I HAVEN'T bought. Mainly cause of how worthless it is.
And this ship is going to end up even worse.
I AM THE SWORD OF THE RIGHTOUS!
...Needs the same (or a similar) boost. And also something done about it's third Ensign Eng slot. Because the Galaxy, you know, sucks. One of the most iconic ships in Star Trek to feature in the game, and it's pretty much collecting dust.
I think the lack of Rom Sci Vessels may point to a lack of sales of them. While cruisers and escorts simply sell better.
Its possible. The kling sci vessels (the Gorn vessels) were the last to be released if I recall correctly. And I rarely if ever see them around on STFs or in space. I fly the Varanus on one of my chars though. Fun ship and a healing monster.
I can fire a ton of drains and only draw a few power from a target, shield strips are lol and exotic damage doesn't make up for the loss of weapons. You can;t hold anybody and disables only work for 3 seconds.