The core does seem to charge slowly, but I'm still in a starter ship with 3 weapons. I'm assuming it would charge must faster with 7-8 weapons. There's also a trait for speeding it up. I think you also get ticks for getting hit.
I prefer that the core starts uncharged. This game does not need another damage pushbutton on top of stacked tac abilities after a decloak. Starting uncharged makes it a long fight mechanic. It does make it less useful in solo content, but queued content where you're almost always in combat it becomes more useful.
But the cooldown after you use an ability feels too long on top of the charge time. Not only that, but you get the same cooldown time regardless of the amount of charge put into it. I think the core cooldown should scale based on the charge level of the previously activated ability, something like 10s + 5s per charge level. So if you fire off the ability at charge level 1, you've got a 15s cooldown. Fire it off fully charged and it's a 35s cooldown. A 60s CD regardless of charge level penalizes choosing to use a partially charged core.
Right now, it's almost 2 minutes between abilities with the core CD and the charge time to 5. Right now in the game, if it was a choice between a special ability console with a 2m CD or a +10 to all power console, which would players choose? I'm guessing the latter (I would). That's the choice of flying warbird vs. non-warbird right now. The core CD needs to be tuned down to the point where it's an even trade.
Well the PBAoE isn't the best, and could use a buff for the cooldown, but the self heal is pretty good, and seems to be worth it for the momenth (needs more testing).
What I would love to be able to do is, even with a fully charged core, fire off a lower grade version of the singularity powers and only partially discharge the core; it would put a cooldown on charging up again, but I would still have some power bonus and still be able to fire off another ability.
The cooldown to recharge might need tweaked a bit. I'd prefer a 30-45 second cooldown with what we have now, but then I never was happy with abilites that take a few minutes to become available again.
I agree, the self heal is really nice when you get it. Will reserve judgment on how it scales to higher tiered ships, but it is very very nice. May just be observation bias, but it feels comparable to miracle worker. It's something that I may be willing to sacrifice a spare console for more uptime. That may be more of a case of the self heal being too good though. At the same time though, gotta remember the different power situation.
The Singularity Specialist Trait says it procs for +20 Singularity Charge. Since there's 5 bars, I assume this means it should proc for one bar. Its proccing for a full 5 bars, and I don't think that's the intended effect.
Maybe you could still add it, but in the tutorial make it so it does no harm and give one of those tip popups to warn players what could happen in a real senario.
Could make the area that pulls you in smaller than a proper gravity well to balance it.
The idea being to suck you in if you are not paying attention, and then get smacked by the shockwave.
I like this, and would suggest that the Romulan core breaches KEEP the different effect, and possibly add one more. Rather than being highly damaging like a matter/antimatter warp core breach, getting caught in a singularity collapse disrupts your movement/positioning; you get pulled in, your facing can be changed (I almost said spin, but that'd probably give me motion sickness), and then you're bounced back out in a random direction. You should still take some damage, but much less than M/A warp core breaches. You can ride it out hoping you come out in a favorable position, or run away trying to retain your current facing and positioning.
Varying how different types of failing ships are dealt with could add just a bit of variety to space combat, and variety is indeed the spice of life.
I'm enjoying Romulan ships so far, but I have noticed one small thing.
My character just allied with the Federation. And the Dhelan I just picked up has the option of a USS prefix. That's fine... I probably won't use it, but that's fine. Unfortunately, the ship seems to come with a registry (NCC-92911) too, that I can't get rid of.
Is there any way to tie the registry to the USS prefix, so those of us using IRW or RRW don't see the registry?
While we always appreciate feedback, I'd really recommend actually playing the D'deridex and getting a feel for it before worrying too much about the turn rate. The Singularity powers go a long way toward changing the feel of the ship. If you play the ship and don't enjoy it, feel free to post about why you feel that way.
Nothing will change 5.5 turn rate into something it's not.
Nothing but a full ENG BOFF power revamp will change the Gal-R layout into anything but the extremely poor design that it is.
One of the worst possible BOFF layouts.
Now compounded with the EPTx changes that actually found a way to make an already under-performing BOFF layout (Gal-R) even worse.
The awful turn rate of the Bortas.
Take a look at the last 6 months of sales, let me know how sales of the Bortas and Gal-R have been.
With all due respect archoncryptic, you asked us to play with the Andorian Tac version before making any judgements.
We recognized it when announced.
We played with it anyway, it's still a really under-performing BOFF layout to this day.
Many of us have unfortunately become pessimistic at this point that this D'Deridex will be anything but lackluster - with, or without, singularity mechanics.
I promise to play these ships and give feedback again. Will it have any effect?
Id' also like to say that every time a Dev tells us to "play it first", I'd like to recommend they please also take that advice when it comes to ships & powers, their design and their place (or lack there of) in PvP.
If players are unable to judge a ship by its numbers without personally playing it first, then that logic holds true for developers accurately/inaccurately judging its place in PvP without trying it there themselves.
Well the PBAoE isn't the best, and could use a buff for the cooldown, but the self heal is pretty good, and seems to be worth it for the momenth (needs more testing).
I don't agree. It seems perfectly fine to me. Any more powerful and it upsets the balance w/ non-singularity ships.
Throwing out some first impressions here: Flying a Warbird makes me feel like a Klingon, and that seems off somehow. The initial Singularity Core ability feels less like a clever exploitation of a contained black hole and more like the point in a game of chess where the Klingon finally gets sick of faffing about with pawns and flips the table onto his opponents to start a bar fight.
I get that Warbirds are presently intended to feel sneaky yet cumbersome, but I come away feeling like somewhere along STO's development track something got flipped around. The Klingons got all the best sneaky TRIBBLE tools, leaving the Romulans holding the brute bag when their turn came along.
Kind of feel this is particularly egregious given the narrow band of development on the Warbird track as it exists today. Some of this is mitigated by the availability of faction ships, but that seems self defeating: If I want to fly a Klingon raider, I'll go play my Klingon, if I want to fly my Federation RSV I'll go log into my Fed.
As a Romulan, I'm going to want my Warbirds, but I'm also going to want to be able to play my role. Given the present lack of ship frames, this might be a place to look into further exploitation of universal bridge stations as well as further consideration of what, thematically and mechanically, can be done with the Singularity.
I'd settle for having fewer bridge stations if I could put whoever I wanted on them, especially since the Singularity seems to substitute for some officer or console effects.
Again, this is early first impression on my part...I dropped in blind to see how it looked, and this is what I'm seeing from the perspective and expectations of a fairly new/returning player who came back /for/ Romulans, so salt as needed and take it for what it's worth.
I don't agree. It seems perfectly fine to me. Any more powerful and it upsets the balance w/ non-singularity ships.
The power of it isn't that far off to be honest. The issue I have is how it relates to the system as a whole. It's a 60 second cooldown plus charge time which adds up to another minute or two, and the way the cooldown works, it feels like you are punished for firing off an ability before you hit charge level 5, and with cores givin a power bonus based on charge level (combined with the 40 power deficit over ships utilizing M/ARA cores), oprtunity cost is added. Beyond that, the heal is a good emergency button.
Number need to be tweaked, the heal may need to come down in power and the shockwave might need to come up, but the real issue is charging and the cooldowns. Cooldowns should scale better based on charge level, and the system as a whole would benefit if we are somehow able to dial our charge.
The takeaway from this is that the system is interesting and decent, but it isn't all that good, and it has untapped potential to add a bit more depth. it's more lackluster than broken at the moment.
So far I see a curios trend. No end game romulan ships I have seen have less then 3 tac consoles
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The cores should definitely start the battle charged (after spawning)...what is the point of a surprise attack from cloak if your best weapon is never available?
Battle cloak. Disappear. In battle. When you need a breather or are ready to do that stealthed strike using your core + high yield to a facing of your choice...because they'll never see it coming.
On another short tangent regarding the Singularity Core (seeing a lot of discussion about what it does/doesn't do, how it should work, etc)...
In the Legacy Dev Blog #3, ArchonCryptic deployed the term 'High Risk, High Reward' as a goal for Warbird design.
Right now, I'd say that Warbirds feel too safe for that.
The Singularity Core doesn't actually carry any real risk apart from the wait times imposed by the cooldown and charge. You run slightly anemic at a base power of 40, but that's not a risk that's just an unfortunate engineering condition.
What if, instead of huge payoffs with long waits, singularity effects were constantly available and got more effective the more you used them but were, themselves, dangerous to you?
ie: Cruise into a fight with your D'Deridex against something light and fast, which you most certainly are not. Spin up the singularity and bend space, allowing you to pivot as if you were much lighter, allowing you to keep your weapons and strongest shields banked against your opponent.
As you exploit it, the singularity drive spins up faster and faster, granting you more...whatever. There's a lot of wiggle room here: You could have Warbirds start out much lower than base power, but gain system power as their drive ramps up during the fight.
The danger: You're riding a black hole. The more you use it, the more charged it gets, the more dangerous it becomes...to everyone, including yourself and your allies. You're doing your best to dump that hate on someone you hate, but the singularity is an unruly beast. It throws out PBAoEs with no regard to allegiance or command, murders the crew in engineering, tears at the superstructure of your ship as it takes hairpin turns it was never quite meant to pull.
High reward, high risk. Flexibility, power and mortal danger.
This is a place to be all kinds of ambitious, even reckless. We're poised to march beneath the Raptor's wings...let's feel some wind.
On another short tangent regarding the Singularity Core (seeing a lot of discussion about what it does/doesn't do, how it should work, etc)...
In the Legacy Dev Blog #3, ArchonCryptic deployed the term 'High Risk, High Reward' as a goal for Warbird design.
Right now, I'd say that Warbirds feel too safe for that.
The Singularity Core doesn't actually carry any real risk apart from the wait times imposed by the cooldown and charge. You run slightly anemic at a base power of 40, but that's not a risk that's just an unfortunate engineering condition.
What if, instead of huge payoffs with long waits, singularity effects were constantly available and got more effective the more you used them but were, themselves, dangerous to you?
<snip>
High reward, high risk. Flexibility, power and mortal danger.
This is a place to be all kinds of ambitious, even reckless. We're poised to march beneath the Raptor's wings...let's feel some wind.
There's something to be said for this approach, I have to admit. The downside is, RNGs hate me. I'd probably avoid playing a Romulan just because every time I fought my ship would blow itself up. I'd suggest this either as an alternate system to the current Singularity system, or with an array of risk management skills/traits (i.e. allow you to customize as to whether you want to increase the risks to increase the rewards, or mitigate the risks to get more reliable, safer rewards).
While we always appreciate feedback, I'd really recommend actually playing the D'deridex and getting a feel for it before worrying too much about the turn rate. The Singularity powers go a long way toward changing the feel of the ship. If you play the ship and don't enjoy it, feel free to post about why you feel that way.
Moreover, we have several Warbirds available that are faster if you're interested in a style of play more similar to an Escort. The D'deridex is a huge ship, canonically both larger and slower than the Galaxy. We're doing our best to make it appropriate to the IP, as well as fun to play.
I can't remember the name, but thec-store version of the ha'pax had a commander science and a Lt commander universal.
I'll have to reserve full judgement for the Singularity core vs the -10 to all subsystem power until I've gotten further, but at this point, I think I'm justified in saying that the -10 to all subsystem power is a little too harsh for the T'Liss.
I'll admit, I haven't actually blown up in space combat, but that's little thanks to my Hazard Emitters, fed by a measly 15 Aux. I think the single singularity power of the T'Liss does not give enough power or flexibility to offset the overall loss of power to the subsystems. Additionally, you're normally only flying the T'Liss during the time before Warp Core Efficiency is available to you to help mitigate the penalty. It wouldn't take much of a shift, maybe a penalty of -8 instead of -10, to let your Aux actually give you SOME benefit while directing all power to shields, weapons, or engines.
Although, as I said, I haven't died yet in space, so it's not like you're crippled with a nearly nonexistent Aux.
i have had no issue with the turn rate acually i was surprised on how quick it turned i hit my keyboared key to turn and it was extreamly quick also i loved the tutorial as of now i have had no issue with the romulan faction plus the new gui is much easyer on the eyes also this is unrelated but do we get to keep the accounts when this goes live ? of npt can we acess our accounts after the testing is done ?
I just realized something: I don't remember seeing any free romulan shuttles.
Is the scorpion which is a paid ship the only romulan small craft avalable? Very disapointing if true. We have seen Romulan shuttles on DS9, so there's no excuse.
Also: regarding science vessels, we have seen Romulan Scout ships on TNG. Add that in as well.
Romulans not having a science ship is something that had me scratching my head too. They've always been portrayed as devious but intelligent, and with science to a level in the ballpark of the Federation.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
There's something to be said for this approach, I have to admit. The downside is, RNGs hate me. I'd probably avoid playing a Romulan just because every time I fought my ship would blow itself up. I'd suggest this either as an alternate system to the current Singularity system, or with an array of risk management skills/traits (i.e. allow you to customize as to whether you want to increase the risks to increase the rewards, or mitigate the risks to get more reliable, safer rewards).
I think management is appropriate, with the understanding that low risk = low reward. But I'd be at home having a mildly anemic capacity to play normally, leaving the singularity spun down...my thinking is that the core doesn't wind up /unless/ you're using singularity abilities, thus opening yourself to the attendant dangers.
So if you use them minimally or not at all, you're left playing a mostly normal ship.
Bear in mind also, I'm not quite advocating 'sudden death' effects...but something to help further justify and utilize the increased durability of warbirds.
Further thought: Any random act of Core should probably also have the effect of cooling it off. If a tightly wound core pops a gravity burst, it should burn some charge to do so...effectively debuffing the owner back towards normal, but also shielding them from things getting too rapidly worse while they wrangle with whatever just happened.
Romulans not having a science ship is something that had me scratching my head too. They've always been portrayed as devious but intelligent, and with science to a level in the ballpark of the Federation.
As I said earlier; I expected they would have a Science slant in much the same way Klingon ships have a Tac slant. I have no idea why they didn't do that.
its not so much that there is a unique problem with the D'deridex having one of the lowest turn rates, compared to other ships it probably should. the problem is the floor for turn rates, the lowest they go, is WAAAAAAAAY to low to be any fun to use, or to be even useful. the correct turn rate floor is that which the kdf battle cruisers have, between 9 and 11. these turn MUCH worse then escorts, and noticeably worse then sci ships, but at least they arent unusably bad, they are about perfect.
turn rate is a more important to combat stat then hitpoints, or consoles, even station setup. it allows positioning, damage mitigation, and being able to point weapons that do more then a net of 0 damage to your target. thats another problem, weapons that arent DHCs being useless, but thats for another topic.
this is pretty much the last straw, seeing the D'deridex this way. at least the negvar is a viable ship with its turn rate, hell even the horrible galaxy R can separate its saucer. the battle cloak with the +10 to turn rate is nice and all, but like i said its the floor thats the problem. turn rate is modified multiplicative, not additively, so engine power, skill points, abilites and consoles all multiply by your base, the difference of 1 base after all these modifiers is absolutely huge. a ship with a base of 20 sits at about 50 turn without even trying. a ship with a 6 turn will never see better then 15.
i dont think certain ships should turn better then their size should let them just because, but for christ sake everything has to be usable. theres a really simple way to fix this, and do the entire game a huge amount of good, and thats by basically just giving every cruiser plus ~2 turn rate. as a category of ships, they still have the worst turn, but like the kdf cruisers, they would be enjoyable to fly.
odyssey- 8
all galaxys- 8.5
star cruiser- 9
ambassador- 9
sovereign- 9.5
excelcior-10
chyenne-10.5
everyone would be happy, people would buy more cruisers, new players drawn to LOF wile leveling their romulans would not stop playing as soon as then went from the 14 turn mogia to the 5 turn D'deridex. you know, stuff like that, that makes business sense. players will hate, HAAAAATE going from the mogai to the D'deridex, all the new customers your trying to attract especially. its time, finally, to fix how horrible and unfun all the iconic ships in the game are, the cruisers.
balance concerns? what balance concerns. cruisers are so freaking underpowered right now its not even funny. all the defensive power creep, combined with high speed avoidance has made escorts nearly unkillable, and theres been nearly as much power creep to spike damage. cruisers benefit from the healing power creep to a lower degree, because they cant combine it with maneuvering, and their damage over time is now rendered null by the average regeneration and resistance levels. then the kick in the balls EPt skill change, holy TRIBBLE, its a bad time to like cruisers. unless that 10 second gap is completely walked back, cruisers will be nonviable compared to escorts and sci ships. YOU NEED TO ADDRESS THIS TOO.
it being intentional that cruisers be this tank healer, that are downright pathetic, costs you money. people want to kill stuff and use their favorite ship to do it, there should be at least limited ways for people to do that. the best way to start doing that is to let them turn better. the second thing you need to do is massively buff pressure damage weapons, keeping in mind the anti pressure levels ships have now with the high resistance and high regeneration. maybe these weapons need to be more front loaded in their damage dealing, 2 shots per cycle instead of 4 on beam arrays and single cannons. in pvp, cruiser damage used to have a modest effect, it could force healing, ware targets down, chase away lone escorts if they couldn't achieve a quick kill, stuff like that. now for any healer it doesn't even mater if they fire.
ok, actual ship stats feedback to come in later posts. DON NOT DISREGARD THIS ONE, this subject is more important then a silly new faction.
Once again I'm in full agreement with Drunk's post.
I think management is appropriate, with the understanding that low risk = low reward. But I'd be at home having a mildly anemic capacity to play normally, leaving the singularity spun down...my thinking is that the core doesn't wind up /unless/ you're using singularity abilities, thus opening yourself to the attendant dangers.
So if you use them minimally or not at all, you're left playing a mostly normal ship.
That could work, I'd have to see it to try it out.
Bear in mind also, I'm not quite advocating 'sudden death' effects...but something to help further justify and utilize the increased durability of warbirds.
You don't know my luck at the dice.
"Okay, so the worst that should happen at this level is your engines may cut out for a few se...RRW T'Ris, why are you turning into a quasar? Stop that."
Further thought: Any random act of Core should probably also have the effect of cooling it off. If a tightly wound core pops a gravity burst, it should burn some charge to do so...effectively debuffing the owner back towards normal, but also shielding them from things getting too rapidly worse while they wrangle with whatever just happened.
Very appropriate, both from a game systems and realism perspective. Agreed.
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archoncrypticMember, Cryptic DevelopersPosts: 0Arc User
For the Tliss, I felt like the periodic shockwave wasn't worth it. Hard to say because the space battles were pretty easy, but in PvP it would be an eternity between uses. Granted, more testing is required.
Related question - I didn't see any info what the power levels meant for the singularity power. Maybe my initial Tac Boff should give an explanation.
These are both good pieces of feedback. I'll pass it on to the relevant people. Thank you for the feedback!
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archoncrypticMember, Cryptic DevelopersPosts: 0Arc User
This is technically related to ships, even though it's not a mechanical standpoint, so....
Give props to the folks responsible for the ship interior of the starting Warbird; it feels right. Although when I entered the engineering section, I was beginning to wonder if I'd gotten on board the Event Horizon. "Where we're going, we won't need eyes to see..."
C'mon guys, give the BoP's at least 3/4 universal stations, same for the other ships.
They are pretty pathetic now especially for PvP, Commander Tactical stations on a big TRIBBLE cruiser, etc we seem to be going the same fixed and boring way again...
When do we finally get to ditch the stupid fixed stations on ships idea?
Cmon.
Pretty much everyone wants to make a rommy and play it anyway, no need to keep these ships balanced towards others, that hasnt exactly been the intention anyway with all the lockboxes that got released with better stats then Cstore variants etc.
Lets not mention the still idiotic 3 tac ensign tac stations on Defiant retro etc....
We should have the option to upgrade at least one station on a ship to make it universal, that would make the game a whole lot more fun. 100K dilithium and u can buy upgrade on your fleet, something like that?
MT - Sad Pandas
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archoncrypticMember, Cryptic DevelopersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm enjoying Romulan ships so far, but I have noticed one small thing.
My character just allied with the Federation. And the Dhelan I just picked up has the option of a USS prefix. That's fine... I probably won't use it, but that's fine. Unfortunately, the ship seems to come with a registry (NCC-92911) too, that I can't get rid of.
Is there any way to tie the registry to the USS prefix, so those of us using IRW or RRW don't see the registry?
Have to say I'm loving the singularity core so far, the T'liss plasma shockwave is pretty impressive. I tried it when the meter wasn't fully charged and thought, "Ok, that's pretty cool" So then I thought I'd see what it did when I had a full charge. All I can say is Wow. Visually the full charge plasma shockwave is amazingly done, and the damage was pretty impressive too, killed the light warbird i was fighting at the time in a single hit (Though it's facing shields were down). Can't wait to advance farther and see what else this drive is capable of.
One small thought on the cooldown, it feels a bit too long, maybe about 45 seconds instead of 60. I can see how in pvp the 60 second cooldown would probably mean that you'd only maybe get one use out of it, and maybe not at full charge. I'm not worried about the charge time because I know there are cores that have percentage bonus to charging the meter. Will post more when I have played some more, now time for sleep.
Edit: Ok, I had to see the ship interrior. I fell into the bottom of the singularity core in engineering.
I don't suppose you would care to comment on our other concenrs archon.
Are you guys looking into science oriented ships for Romulans, and would you look at turn rates.
Also, are you actually submitting any of these suggestions to the team?
I thought you captured the torpedo boat TOS thing perfectly. It felt really rewarding to make an attack run and have 3/4 of your enemy gone. Some things though. The T'liss says it have a good maneuverabilty rating, but it felt sluggish. I will say, that I sort of expected that from a 200 year old 'home-grown' refit. It was nice to pilot, and that might have been intended, but it was a bit sad to see the klingon Vorcha run circles (literally) around my ship, while I maneuvered. Still I liked it. I agree the singularity part needs a bit more explaination
"..and like children playing after sunset, we were surrounded by darkness." -Ruri Hoshino
Lets not mention the still idiotic 3 tac ensign tac stations on Defiant retro etc....
Ships like the Defiant and Galaxy-R with their too many Ensign Tactical or Ensign Eng stations have had these running, repeated, complaints.
Ships with awful turn rates with repeated, running complaints.
I thought perhaps that problem would die with the old ships, that they were basically beyond saving in the current business plan of "what's next and new?"
I reconciled with that. It's a business model, and this is a business after-all.
To see those same, almost universally derided and reviled, design choices such as 6 or lower turnrates or too many Tac Ensign stations (Andorian, The Romulan T'Varo) or too many Ensign Eng stations (D'Deridex) is really just mind-boggling.
Comments
I prefer that the core starts uncharged. This game does not need another damage pushbutton on top of stacked tac abilities after a decloak. Starting uncharged makes it a long fight mechanic. It does make it less useful in solo content, but queued content where you're almost always in combat it becomes more useful.
But the cooldown after you use an ability feels too long on top of the charge time. Not only that, but you get the same cooldown time regardless of the amount of charge put into it. I think the core cooldown should scale based on the charge level of the previously activated ability, something like 10s + 5s per charge level. So if you fire off the ability at charge level 1, you've got a 15s cooldown. Fire it off fully charged and it's a 35s cooldown. A 60s CD regardless of charge level penalizes choosing to use a partially charged core.
Right now, it's almost 2 minutes between abilities with the core CD and the charge time to 5. Right now in the game, if it was a choice between a special ability console with a 2m CD or a +10 to all power console, which would players choose? I'm guessing the latter (I would). That's the choice of flying warbird vs. non-warbird right now. The core CD needs to be tuned down to the point where it's an even trade.
I agree, the self heal is really nice when you get it. Will reserve judgment on how it scales to higher tiered ships, but it is very very nice. May just be observation bias, but it feels comparable to miracle worker. It's something that I may be willing to sacrifice a spare console for more uptime. That may be more of a case of the self heal being too good though. At the same time though, gotta remember the different power situation.
I like this, and would suggest that the Romulan core breaches KEEP the different effect, and possibly add one more. Rather than being highly damaging like a matter/antimatter warp core breach, getting caught in a singularity collapse disrupts your movement/positioning; you get pulled in, your facing can be changed (I almost said spin, but that'd probably give me motion sickness), and then you're bounced back out in a random direction. You should still take some damage, but much less than M/A warp core breaches. You can ride it out hoping you come out in a favorable position, or run away trying to retain your current facing and positioning.
Varying how different types of failing ships are dealt with could add just a bit of variety to space combat, and variety is indeed the spice of life.
My character just allied with the Federation. And the Dhelan I just picked up has the option of a USS prefix. That's fine... I probably won't use it, but that's fine. Unfortunately, the ship seems to come with a registry (NCC-92911) too, that I can't get rid of.
Is there any way to tie the registry to the USS prefix, so those of us using IRW or RRW don't see the registry?
Nothing will change 5.5 turn rate into something it's not.
Nothing but a full ENG BOFF power revamp will change the Gal-R layout into anything but the extremely poor design that it is.
One of the worst possible BOFF layouts.
Now compounded with the EPTx changes that actually found a way to make an already under-performing BOFF layout (Gal-R) even worse.
The awful turn rate of the Bortas.
Take a look at the last 6 months of sales, let me know how sales of the Bortas and Gal-R have been.
With all due respect archoncryptic, you asked us to play with the Andorian Tac version before making any judgements.
We recognized it when announced.
We played with it anyway, it's still a really under-performing BOFF layout to this day.
Many of us have unfortunately become pessimistic at this point that this D'Deridex will be anything but lackluster - with, or without, singularity mechanics.
I promise to play these ships and give feedback again. Will it have any effect?
Id' also like to say that every time a Dev tells us to "play it first", I'd like to recommend they please also take that advice when it comes to ships & powers, their design and their place (or lack there of) in PvP.
If players are unable to judge a ship by its numbers without personally playing it first, then that logic holds true for developers accurately/inaccurately judging its place in PvP without trying it there themselves.
I don't agree. It seems perfectly fine to me. Any more powerful and it upsets the balance w/ non-singularity ships.
I get that Warbirds are presently intended to feel sneaky yet cumbersome, but I come away feeling like somewhere along STO's development track something got flipped around. The Klingons got all the best sneaky TRIBBLE tools, leaving the Romulans holding the brute bag when their turn came along.
Kind of feel this is particularly egregious given the narrow band of development on the Warbird track as it exists today. Some of this is mitigated by the availability of faction ships, but that seems self defeating: If I want to fly a Klingon raider, I'll go play my Klingon, if I want to fly my Federation RSV I'll go log into my Fed.
As a Romulan, I'm going to want my Warbirds, but I'm also going to want to be able to play my role. Given the present lack of ship frames, this might be a place to look into further exploitation of universal bridge stations as well as further consideration of what, thematically and mechanically, can be done with the Singularity.
I'd settle for having fewer bridge stations if I could put whoever I wanted on them, especially since the Singularity seems to substitute for some officer or console effects.
Again, this is early first impression on my part...I dropped in blind to see how it looked, and this is what I'm seeing from the perspective and expectations of a fairly new/returning player who came back /for/ Romulans, so salt as needed and take it for what it's worth.
The power of it isn't that far off to be honest. The issue I have is how it relates to the system as a whole. It's a 60 second cooldown plus charge time which adds up to another minute or two, and the way the cooldown works, it feels like you are punished for firing off an ability before you hit charge level 5, and with cores givin a power bonus based on charge level (combined with the 40 power deficit over ships utilizing M/ARA cores), oprtunity cost is added. Beyond that, the heal is a good emergency button.
Number need to be tweaked, the heal may need to come down in power and the shockwave might need to come up, but the real issue is charging and the cooldowns. Cooldowns should scale better based on charge level, and the system as a whole would benefit if we are somehow able to dial our charge.
The takeaway from this is that the system is interesting and decent, but it isn't all that good, and it has untapped potential to add a bit more depth. it's more lackluster than broken at the moment.
Battle cloak. Disappear. In battle. When you need a breather or are ready to do that stealthed strike using your core + high yield to a facing of your choice...because they'll never see it coming.
In the Legacy Dev Blog #3, ArchonCryptic deployed the term 'High Risk, High Reward' as a goal for Warbird design.
Right now, I'd say that Warbirds feel too safe for that.
The Singularity Core doesn't actually carry any real risk apart from the wait times imposed by the cooldown and charge. You run slightly anemic at a base power of 40, but that's not a risk that's just an unfortunate engineering condition.
What if, instead of huge payoffs with long waits, singularity effects were constantly available and got more effective the more you used them but were, themselves, dangerous to you?
ie: Cruise into a fight with your D'Deridex against something light and fast, which you most certainly are not. Spin up the singularity and bend space, allowing you to pivot as if you were much lighter, allowing you to keep your weapons and strongest shields banked against your opponent.
As you exploit it, the singularity drive spins up faster and faster, granting you more...whatever. There's a lot of wiggle room here: You could have Warbirds start out much lower than base power, but gain system power as their drive ramps up during the fight.
The danger: You're riding a black hole. The more you use it, the more charged it gets, the more dangerous it becomes...to everyone, including yourself and your allies. You're doing your best to dump that hate on someone you hate, but the singularity is an unruly beast. It throws out PBAoEs with no regard to allegiance or command, murders the crew in engineering, tears at the superstructure of your ship as it takes hairpin turns it was never quite meant to pull.
High reward, high risk. Flexibility, power and mortal danger.
This is a place to be all kinds of ambitious, even reckless. We're poised to march beneath the Raptor's wings...let's feel some wind.
There's something to be said for this approach, I have to admit. The downside is, RNGs hate me. I'd probably avoid playing a Romulan just because every time I fought my ship would blow itself up. I'd suggest this either as an alternate system to the current Singularity system, or with an array of risk management skills/traits (i.e. allow you to customize as to whether you want to increase the risks to increase the rewards, or mitigate the risks to get more reliable, safer rewards).
I can't remember the name, but thec-store version of the ha'pax had a commander science and a Lt commander universal.
I'll admit, I haven't actually blown up in space combat, but that's little thanks to my Hazard Emitters, fed by a measly 15 Aux. I think the single singularity power of the T'Liss does not give enough power or flexibility to offset the overall loss of power to the subsystems. Additionally, you're normally only flying the T'Liss during the time before Warp Core Efficiency is available to you to help mitigate the penalty. It wouldn't take much of a shift, maybe a penalty of -8 instead of -10, to let your Aux actually give you SOME benefit while directing all power to shields, weapons, or engines.
Although, as I said, I haven't died yet in space, so it's not like you're crippled with a nearly nonexistent Aux.
Is the scorpion which is a paid ship the only romulan small craft avalable? Very disapointing if true. We have seen Romulan shuttles on DS9, so there's no excuse.
Also: regarding science vessels, we have seen Romulan Scout ships on TNG. Add that in as well.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
I think management is appropriate, with the understanding that low risk = low reward. But I'd be at home having a mildly anemic capacity to play normally, leaving the singularity spun down...my thinking is that the core doesn't wind up /unless/ you're using singularity abilities, thus opening yourself to the attendant dangers.
So if you use them minimally or not at all, you're left playing a mostly normal ship.
Bear in mind also, I'm not quite advocating 'sudden death' effects...but something to help further justify and utilize the increased durability of warbirds.
Further thought: Any random act of Core should probably also have the effect of cooling it off. If a tightly wound core pops a gravity burst, it should burn some charge to do so...effectively debuffing the owner back towards normal, but also shielding them from things getting too rapidly worse while they wrangle with whatever just happened.
As I said earlier; I expected they would have a Science slant in much the same way Klingon ships have a Tac slant. I have no idea why they didn't do that.
Once again I'm in full agreement with Drunk's post.
That could work, I'd have to see it to try it out.
You don't know my luck at the dice.
"Okay, so the worst that should happen at this level is your engines may cut out for a few se...RRW T'Ris, why are you turning into a quasar? Stop that."
Very appropriate, both from a game systems and realism perspective. Agreed.
These are both good pieces of feedback. I'll pass it on to the relevant people. Thank you for the feedback!
Glad you like the interior! I'll pass this on.
They are pretty pathetic now especially for PvP, Commander Tactical stations on a big TRIBBLE cruiser, etc we seem to be going the same fixed and boring way again...
When do we finally get to ditch the stupid fixed stations on ships idea?
Cmon.
Pretty much everyone wants to make a rommy and play it anyway, no need to keep these ships balanced towards others, that hasnt exactly been the intention anyway with all the lockboxes that got released with better stats then Cstore variants etc.
Lets not mention the still idiotic 3 tac ensign tac stations on Defiant retro etc....
We should have the option to upgrade at least one station on a ship to make it universal, that would make the game a whole lot more fun. 100K dilithium and u can buy upgrade on your fleet, something like that?
I'll look into this. Thanks for the report.
One small thought on the cooldown, it feels a bit too long, maybe about 45 seconds instead of 60. I can see how in pvp the 60 second cooldown would probably mean that you'd only maybe get one use out of it, and maybe not at full charge. I'm not worried about the charge time because I know there are cores that have percentage bonus to charging the meter. Will post more when I have played some more, now time for sleep.
Edit: Ok, I had to see the ship interrior. I fell into the bottom of the singularity core in engineering.
Are you guys looking into science oriented ships for Romulans, and would you look at turn rates.
Also, are you actually submitting any of these suggestions to the team?
Ships like the Defiant and Galaxy-R with their too many Ensign Tactical or Ensign Eng stations have had these running, repeated, complaints.
Ships with awful turn rates with repeated, running complaints.
I thought perhaps that problem would die with the old ships, that they were basically beyond saving in the current business plan of "what's next and new?"
I reconciled with that. It's a business model, and this is a business after-all.
To see those same, almost universally derided and reviled, design choices such as 6 or lower turnrates or too many Tac Ensign stations (Andorian, The Romulan T'Varo) or too many Ensign Eng stations (D'Deridex) is really just mind-boggling.