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Ask Cryptic: Legacy of Romulus

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  • wazzagiowwazzagiow Member Posts: 769 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    This statement just blows my mind. About a year ago the forums were screaming and chanting "Content Content Content" and you just called and entire faction's worth of content meaningless.....

    they have only done that because of the end result, a ripped apart faction. it's like having the kdf in reverse. roms get the content from 1-50 that you wont play again or at least are unlikely to. and basically have no end game. but joining the 2 current factions so you can fight themselves in the kdf vs fed war yet they are meant to be in the same faction?!?!:eek:

    hows that work?? it don't really dose it :P
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    This statement just blows my mind. About a year ago the forums were screaming and chanting "Content Content Content" and you just called and entire faction's worth of content meaningless.....

    More content=good.

    But this implementation is just... bizarre.

    A bunch of new Romulan-orientated missions that take a new character from 1-40 - none of these missions are available to Feds or KDF through their journal but Roms can invite their faction allies to join them in (re)doing those.

    Once a Romulan is done with those, 40-50 is the same old FE's, Defera, Nukara and Nomulus.

    KDF get... well... we don't know yet - we know we're getting some missions as well as the tutorial and then there's talk of this 'Nimbus Adventure Zone' *shudder* which I suspect will be new end-game grinding for both factions.

    On top of that I imagine there'll be some faction-agnostic FE-type stuff for the Feds and KDF.

    All that's kind-of neat - and it's a lot of work - and I suppose it puts everything on an even footing for all future missions being identical irrespective of who you play (which I *hate* btw - so lazy) but is the game really any better for all this effort?

    And the Romulans aren't a faction at all - just a bit of backstory that we need to create a new character to experience. All their introduction really achieves is allowing Cryptic to stick Romulan ships in the C-Store/lockboxes.

    Which perhaps was the point all along.
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  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    wazzagiow wrote: »
    they have only done that because of the end result, a ripped apart faction. it's like having the kdf in reverse. roms get the content from 1-50 that you wont play again or at least are unlikely to. and basically have no end game. but joining the 2 current factions so you can fight themselves in the kdf vs fed war yet they are meant to be in the same faction?!?!:eek:

    hows that work?? it don't really dose it :P

    What end game does the KDF and FED have that is so unique...they both have the same they both helping each other fight the borg...they have nothing special over each other.

    Hell I did not expect Cryptic to even give 1-40 content...i was expecting 40-50 and join KDF...hell I did not see a faction coming ever.

    and as a KDF player...I rather have had the 1-40 stuff over the end game TRIBBLE...instead of starting from 20-50 having to play as a Fed to unlock the KDF.
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  • lan451lan451 Member Posts: 3,386 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    You know...if I remember correctly The.Grand.Nagus once had a poll about "mini factions" and if people would be willing to accept the Romulans as a mini faction. I seem to remember most people participating in that poll just wanting playable Romulans in the game in any shape or form be it mini faction or not. I'm going to have to go back through the forums and see if I can find it. Does anyone else remember that or know where it is off hand?
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  • daan2006daan2006 Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    lan451 wrote: »
    You know...if I remember correctly The.Grand.Nagus once had a poll about "mini factions" and if people would be willing to accept the Romulans as a mini faction. I seem to remember most people participating in that poll just wanting playable Romulans in the game in any shape or form be it mini faction or not. I'm going to have to go back through the forums and see if I can find it. Does anyone else remember that or know where it is off hand?

    im more then likely on that poll saying I didn't and saw others say we don't want romulan lapdogs I can tell you of another poll I did the same thing it was one by cryptic and ask vote for playable romulans again said I did not want lapdogs
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    macronius wrote: »
    This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
  • wazzagiowwazzagiow Member Posts: 769 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    lan451 wrote: »
    You know...if I remember correctly The.Grand.Nagus once had a poll about "mini factions" and if people would be willing to accept the Romulans as a mini faction. I seem to remember most people participating in that poll just wanting playable Romulans in the game in any shape or form be it mini faction or not. I'm going to have to go back through the forums and see if I can find it. Does anyone else remember that or know where it is off hand?

    If I recall people called the kdf a mini faction and that's what they thought a mini faction was when voting. Which was content short but their own people fighting their own battles not getting split in 2 and fighting each other in some one else's war:eek:
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    What end game does the KDF and FED have that is so unique...they both have the same they both helping each other fight the borg...they have nothing special over each other.

    A unique sense of identity.

    And whilst I shudder to call it content, they have the Excelsior, they have the B'rel, they have faction-appropriate Boffs they can customize - they have Diplomacy and Marauding, they have a storyline that pits them as enemies even if at times they're required to cooperate - and yes, they have unique starbases.

    End-game Romulans are going to be a faction without an identity - they'll have their social zone and they'll have their ships (which the Feds and the KDF will have too) and they'll have some unique costume options but other than that they're a Fed or a KDF in all but name.

    For some players that'll be enough - in fact, it'll be more than enough because if they want to fly a B'rel they'll be able to. But for those that wanted to play the Romulans of the TV show - well, they're not even being offered that option.
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  • lan451lan451 Member Posts: 3,386 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Okay I found it:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=198416&highlight=mini+faction


    Yes, I would be satisfied with "mini-factions"
    68%
    225 votes


    No, I want each faction to be fully developed with full faction specific content
    32%
    105 votes



    330 Total Votes


    Granted that's not an official poll and only comprised of people who happened to see that thread at the time, but just off of that it seems that a decent number of people were okay with Rommies just being a mini faction. Interesting.
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  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,115 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Not just that - you're also getting:

    D'deridex and warbirds orbiting ESD and Qo'noS

    Which I'm sure they were doing back in the days of the Domuinion War when the Roms were ALLIES of the Feds VS the Dominion
    Romulans and Remans running around Starfleet/KDF Academy

    See above. Plus it just means my Reman bridge officer and Duty Officers that I already have will have more of their own people to socialize with.
    Klingon and Federation banners every time you visit 'your' starbase

    If I'm Romulan it will never be my starbase; just a Starbase I'm using to further my people's goals.
    Elite Fed Phasers and KDF Disruptors at end-game

    Yeah, like we don't already have members of all factions ALREADY using a variety of weapons types (IE Klingons using phasers and plasma weapon; Feds using Disruptors and Plasma weapons, etc.)
    MACO/Honor Guard Armor for your Romulan

    Again, if the tech is good, take it - hell the Feds stole a cloaking device all the way back in the TOS era
    Feds and KDF flying Romulan ships
    Romulans flying Fed and KDF ships and Bugs, Chel Grett etc.

    Go watch the DS9 episode "The Die is Cast" - funny that the Romulans had no issues giving command of a Warbird to a Cardassian Enabran Tain as they allied with the Cardassians to attack the Founders and Jem Hadar. Also as I recall during MOST of DS9 Season 5 Gul Dukat was flying a Klingon Bird of Prey. So, yeah, no canon in Star trek of various factions using ship/equipment of other factions...oh, wait...

    The same end-game grind, STFs and rewards as everyone else plus Tholian Rep
    Alien hybrids unnecessarily locked behind Gold/LTS subscriptions
    Playing a bunch of the same old Featured Episodes again to get from 40-50
    Grinding Nomulus again
    Having to finish T5 Rom Rep to get a Reman
    A ship full of KDF/Fed Doffs since you have to use factional Doff packs

    Yes, awful that bthey want to players who may decide to ONLY make a Romulan access to ALL the content available to all the other factions. I'm sure this will TRIBBLE off Romulan players no end.:rolleyes:
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  • felderburgfelderburg Member Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    How much did the fact that you (the devs) want to keep pvp a two-faction deal influence the decision to have the playable Romulans tag on to the existing factions? Because I strongly believe that gameplay should NOT influence story - it should be the other way around. I hope keeping pvp as two-faction didn't influence the decision, but if it did - why not just eliminate the faction queues, and have one "join pvp" button where everyone that queues just gets split up on two teams?
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Usual cheerleading claptrap...

    Oh please, you're the worst of the Cryptic apologists on this forum - it's thanks to people like you that Cryptic (falsely) thinks it can inflict things like Season 7 on the player-base without consequence.

    If you actually gave a TRIBBLE about Trek, this game or its players you wouldn't be posting pro-Cryptic drivel like this - you'd either keep your ill-considered thoughts to yourself or at least acknowledge the fact that the Romulans as a race in Star Trek deserve more than being grafted on to the Feds/KDF.
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  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    A unique sense of identity.

    And whilst I shudder to call it content, they have the Excelsior, they have the B'rel, they have faction-appropriate Boffs they can customize - they have Diplomacy and Marauding, they have a storyline that pits them as enemies even if at times they're required to cooperate - and yes, they have unique starbases.

    End-game Romulans are going to be a faction without an identity - they'll have their social zone and they'll have their ships (which the Feds and the KDF will have too) and they'll have some unique costume options but other than that they're a Fed or a KDF in all but name.

    For some players that'll be enough - in fact, it'll be more than enough because if they want to fly a B'rel they'll be able to. But for those that wanted to play the Romulans of the TV show - well, they're not even being offered that option.

    Sooo the Romulans will be what the game was pre season 6 with a little extra AWESOME!!!!!!!!

    sounds like a faction to me. SWEET!!!:cool:
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  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Oh please, you're the worst of the Cryptic apologists on this forum - it's thanks to people like you that Cryptic (falsely) thinks it can inflict things like Season 7 on the player-base without consequence.

    If you actually gave a TRIBBLE about Trek, this game or its players you wouldn't be posting pro-Cryptic drivel like this - you'd either keep your ill-considered thoughts to yourself or at least acknowledge the fact that the Romulans as a race in Star Trek deserve more than being grafted on to the Feds/KDF.

    lol, wow hate to break it to you but a person can disagree with you and still love Trek

    IDIC fail
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  • goldenlion619goldenlion619 Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    Sooo the Romulans will be what the game was pre season 6 with a little extra AWESOME!!!!!!!!

    sounds like a faction to me. SWEET!!!:cool:

    Its not a real faction, the player base split between two other factions. Romulan fleets if any will be few because no one is going to leave their current fleets. This is a "Alt" faction.
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Its not a real faction, the player base split between two other factions. Romulan fleets if any will be few because no one is going to leave their current fleets. This is a "Alt" faction.

    How are the player bases split if players want to hang out at ESD or FC that's one them, but they will get their own hub to hang out...as stated the RR is not answering to Quinn or the other guy.
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  • wazzagiowwazzagiow Member Posts: 769 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    How are the player bases split if players want to hang out at ESD or FC that's one them, but they will get their own hub to hang out...as stated the RR is not answering to Quinn or the other guy.

    they mean the romulan playerbase / fake faction
  • daan2006daan2006 Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Its not a real faction, the player base split between two other factions. Romulan fleets if any will be few because no one is going to leave their current fleets. This is a "Alt" faction.

    have to agree and when they added a leveling system to fleets they killed new fleet or fleet that died and come back and say hey I try this again but only they find out 95% of the player base is all ready in the fleet they going to be in or been with for say as long as they been playing now how am I to be a romulan fleet ? that right im not a romulan fleet im really FED or KDF
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    macronius wrote: »
    This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
  • kadieraskadieras Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I would like to know how many of those who are excited about this decision plan to primarily play a Romulan and how many are simply FED or KDF players excited about something new.

    I personally, don't believe the Romulans can be called a complete faction if they lack a fleet system. You can make jokes and snide comments about how lacking a starbase is just like before season six when it isn't. We lack a fleet system and our own queues. I understand why they did what they did but trying to belittle or mock those who are upset by implying that the lack of a starbase is just a sink while ignoring that it signifies a significant difference between the two main factions is just disingenuous.
    Like the Romulan Alliance System? Of course you do, it sounds fine to you because you aren't Romulans, you're FED or KDF who are going to make a Romulan alt, it makes a HUGE difference in perspective.
  • wazzagiowwazzagiow Member Posts: 769 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    certainly reminds me of that moment in ds9: pale moonlight

    ............................It's a FAAAAAKE
  • mwgacy1mwgacy1 Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    It's just a further dilution of any notion of factions in this game - eventually Qo'noS and ESD will be one and the same - maybe some people want that, but I think anything that takes character and contrast away from the two factions is a loss for the players.

    There's already virtually no difference between the factions, the KDF have slightly faster turning ships whilst the Fed's have more defensive ships and that's it. OK, my Fed's have to wear slightly more clothes than the Orion Defence Force and Qo'noS is full of emo whine to ESD's brain damage but the game play is all but identical and the Romulan's being there won't do much to change that.
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    lan451 wrote: »
    Okay I found it:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=198416&highlight=mini+faction


    Yes, I would be satisfied with "mini-factions"
    68%
    225 votes


    No, I want each faction to be fully developed with full faction specific content
    32%
    105 votes



    330 Total Votes


    Granted that's not an official poll and only comprised of people who happened to see that thread at the time, but just off of that it seems that a decent number of people were okay with Rommies just being a mini faction. Interesting.

    Their definition of "mini-faction" is actually inferior to what we're getting - as it specifically states no faction-specific missions at all. So it seems the "No" voters are being satisfied to a degree. :P

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  • goldenlion619goldenlion619 Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    How are the player bases split if players want to hang out at ESD or FC that's one them, but they will get their own hub to hang out...as stated the RR is not answering to Quinn or the other guy.


    There really no point in starting a Romulan fleet, players will hang out with their current fleets and friends. That is not a faction, its more like adding a Romulan race and ships to both the Feds and KDF.
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Any who I'm done with the STO forums for now...gonna deal with another hostile faction...Whovians woo hoo New Doctor Who.
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  • daan2006daan2006 Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    kadieras wrote: »
    I would like to know how many of those who are excited about this decision plan to primarily play a Romulan and how many are simply FED or KDF players excited about something new.

    I personally, don't believe the Romulans can be called a complete faction if they lack a fleet system. You can make jokes and snide comments about how lacking a starbase is just like before season six when it isn't. We lack a fleet system and our own queues. I understand why they did what they did but trying to belittle or mock those who are upset by implying that the lack of a starbase is just a sink while ignoring that it signifies a significant difference between the two main factions is just disingenuous.

    yep I agree ppl that are ok with this more then likely were going to play rom's as ALTS for doffing so on
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    macronius wrote: »
    This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
  • kadieraskadieras Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I think this is what bugs me the most. I am however, willing to test it out on tribble and see how it goes and then give my feedback regarding the alliance system in terms of queues, the lack of our own fleets however, is not acceptable regardless of implementation, I would be ok with Romulans and all future factions being unique in that they are allowed to decide whether to join a FED, KDF, or native fleet.
    There really no point in starting a Romulan fleet, players will hang out with their current fleets and friends. That is not a faction, its more like adding a Romulan race and ships to both the Feds and KDF.
    Like the Romulan Alliance System? Of course you do, it sounds fine to you because you aren't Romulans, you're FED or KDF who are going to make a Romulan alt, it makes a HUGE difference in perspective.
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    Sooo the Romulans will be what the game was pre season 6 with a little extra AWESOME!!!!!!!!

    sounds like a faction to me. SWEET!!!:cool:

    Don't you get tired of re-typing the same line? Or do you just copy/paste it?

    Did you miss the part about faction unique ships? Or a storyline that (kinda) makes sense as to why the two factions are adversaries? Or the customizable Boffs? When you play Fed or KDF, despite the many failings of this game, the one thing it (originally) got right was the sense of identity in the factions.

    Beyond the tutorial and the unique missions, this is something the Romulans are lacking. They're a nothing race with a foot in the Federation and a foot in the KDF and with little unique in of themselves. Adding them this way is not only a poor way of representing the Romulans of the show, it's also messing with the identity of the Feds and the KDF.
    neoakiraii wrote:
    lol, wow hate to break it to you but a person can disagree with you and still love Trek

    Sorry, but crypticarmsman's just another troll. I've read many of his posts and he's exactly the kind of player that's dooming this game to mediocrity. Some people are happy with that - I'm not one of them.
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  • lan451lan451 Member Posts: 3,386 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    dalolorn wrote: »
    Their definition of "mini-faction" is actually inferior to what we're getting - as it specifically states no faction-specific missions at all. So it seems the "No" voters are being satisfied to a degree. :P

    Indeed. If I remember I actually voted "no" on that poll and I'm personally just fine with how it actually turned out. I also noticed while I was looking for that thread that there were other threads along the lines of "Give me Romulans NOW I don't care how they are!" and "I just want to fly my warbird, I don't care about all the content the feds have" and the like. Granted they were more on the ranting side, but I still found it interesting. That was spanning back for almost two years. And as you say, we're getting a whole lot more than what was specified in that poll.
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  • kadieraskadieras Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I also voted no in that poll, I was not in the ranting group that demanded WARBIRDS NOW, I was and am in favor of having a Romulan faction, and except for the lack of fleets and independent queues I'm extremely impressed with what they've delivered, its just those two things are huge sticking points for me atm.
    Like the Romulan Alliance System? Of course you do, it sounds fine to you because you aren't Romulans, you're FED or KDF who are going to make a Romulan alt, it makes a HUGE difference in perspective.
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    mwgacy1 wrote: »
    There's already virtually no difference between the factions, the KDF have slightly faster turning ships whilst the Fed's have more defensive ships and that's it. OK, my Fed's have to wear slightly more clothes than the Orion Defence Force and Qo'noS is full of emo whine to ESD's brain damage but the game play is all but identical and the Romulan's being there won't do much to change that.

    I think it all depends on what you do at end-game, but I PvP, run ground and space STFs, do Doffing and do stuff with the KDF and Fed fleets I'm in.

    All of those except the STFs have a unique perspective as a Fed or KDF - it may just be visual, it may just be a change of text but it's there.

    And as a Fed, I find it fun in STFs when a bunch of KDF ships warp in - they 'feel' like the enemy (maybe because I PvP against them) so there's that - and on the ground, the difference between the MACO and the Honor Guards.

    You've also got things like Ganalda station for the KDF and Memory Alpha for the Feds - there's a feeling that they have a presence in the universe - will the Romulans have that?
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  • captainmal3captainmal3 Member Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    The more I think about this whole 'no fleets' thing the more it annoys me. Dan said that we were going to be joining established fleets so we could use all their stuff and not have to grind all over again, but that doesn't actually work does it? All the fleets that have actually progressed beyond tier 2 are full, so 99% of romulans are going to end up in new or struggling fleets anyway. And that's not even counting those like me who WANTED to make a new fleet from scratch.

    Or does cryptic expect that we kick a load of people from our fleets to make room for our new romulan slav- sorry, allies? 'cos that hardly seems fair.
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