I'll be interested to see how the sliding scale rewards work, but losing the Fleet Marks entirely will be a big loss to me. IOR basically bankrolled my starbase (since I'm basically building it single handed at this point). Now I guess once I finally get to the tier I'm working on I will have to stop, because otherwise it's going to take the best part of the rest of the year to get up to the next one. The FM missions give such a low reward that it's almost not worth putting in the effort, especially compared to IOR.
I would seriously hope that the FMs being taken away will either be put into increasing rewards that already exist in other parts of the game, or will be added to other areas.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
It's weird that you can earn a lot of FM's by soloing foundry missions. I agree with cryptic removing them. BUT, the amount of FM's you earn with fleet events is way to low. You should earn fleet marks by doing large events, but getting ~20 fm's for 30-45 minutes of playing is way to low. First fix all the fleet missions so they give a proper amount of marks and then remove it from the foundry missions.
Honestly, there are more people playing the foundry for fleet marks rather than Dil. taking the fleet marks out of the foundry is going to be like shooting your self in the foot here Cryptic, if you want to scale the amount back a litte fine, but honesly i can que fleet events for an hr and make maybe 75 marks.. this is a bad move and it hurts the progress of the projects for smaller fleets... I mean damn just when you guys get on a roll of making people happy you have to go and TRIBBLE us off again... oh and while im at it REMOVE THE LOCK BOXES... some of us are to space poor to be opening boxes all the time in the hopes you might be one of the lucky few to get a ship
Thanks to the grinders we now have all lost the daily FM's. Thanks. I knew that they would TRIBBLE it for the rest of us.
drkfrontiers said;
"Thanks to the grinders we now have all lost the daily FM's. Thanks. I knew that they would TRIBBLE it for the rest of us."
Fleet/Reps progression IS grinding.
Not to mention the severe lack of worthwhile sources for Fleet Marks guarantees some content gets more attention than others.
The WORST decision by Cryptic (casting the Season 7 STF fun-killing in it's shadow) in STO and it's only month 2 into 2013...
NO to ARC RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
I really have a hard time understanding how Cryptic can be this terrible at community interaction.
Now, I can completely understand why they want to remove this. It was too abusive and went against the original purpose of the foundry.
BUT!
They have to realize they'll have to buff other means of obtaining FMs in the same vein. And I think they plan on doing that. But that they don't wait until that part is worked out and they can nerf and compensate AT THE SAME TIME, is what baffles me. They do this over and over again and never learn. It makes me wonder if there are really human beings on the other end or just robots. Reminds me of a scene in Simpsons were Homer touches a hot stove plate over and over again, screaming each time. He just can't stop burning himself.
They don't even earn money with FMs, there is no way slowing those down increases their revenue in any shape or form. It just does not make sense unless you are the Cryptic staff in charge I guess.
Problem: People aren't playing fleet events because the foundry is more rewarding.
Solution A: Increase the rewards for the fleet events to make them competitive again.
Solution B: Whack the foundry with the nerf-bat.
One of the above solutions would please the players. The other would not. Which solution do we get?...
There is nothing wrong with the Fleet Events with rewards, especially if you get up to Wave 10 in No Win Scenario which yields well over 200 Fleet Marks for doing 30 minutes of work (providing you are a skilled team).
And there are some who farm it doing the Fleet Mark Bonus events and literally get over 1000 Fleet Marks this way. So a fleet of these teams can bring in 5000 fleet marks per day (1000 per teammate).
Though personally, given the nerfs to Nukara and the Foundry, I wouldn't be surprised this gets "adjusted" as well. :P
There is nothing wrong with the Fleet Events with rewards, especially if you get up to Wave 10 in No Win Scenario which yields well over 200 Fleet Marks for doing 30 minutes of work (providing you are a skilled team).
Eh yeah, that is one fleet event that 99% of the players will never see that far. The rest who are stuck to pugs or casual fleeties get awesome stuff like 20 minutes for 17 marks base defense (even fails a ton in pugs) or 20 marks for 15 minutes of transporter babysitting. Only event at least FUN is Incursion IMO, but even that only leads you mid-thirty marks in a good group and is then on cooldown so you can get back to the TRIBBLE events.
I don't mind the removal of FM from the foundry Daily if and only if Cryptic reduces the requirement or removes fleet marks entirely from the starbase projects or the game itself.
If
They are to remove the Fleet Marks reward from the Daily, then they need to:
A) Beef up the Fleet Mark rewards from the Fleet Events to about 50 to 100 FM's per event
Include FM rewards for episode missions completion + events.
As of right now, the only event worth playing for FM, besides the obvious Foundry Daily, are the Ground starbase incursion missions.
Simply the space one gives you next to nothing - but the ground gives you a measely 24 to 25 FM <--- That is waaaaay too low of a FM rewards for the time that it takes to complete those ground fleet events.
Fleet Marks Fleet event need a serious boost, and the starbase projects that require FM, need a serious reduction in FM requirement.
The game is becoming too spread out with Embassy Holdings, starbase holdings, and now the personal Reputation system (Though the Rep system requires no FM - it is a resource sink.)
\The only good thing about this thread is you saved me and my friends $199 each on the Neverwinter founders pack.
I'm not grinding out anything in this. I got a life.
You have experienced first hand how Cryptic handles its games, how it has a "let wither" and die approach. Its not as evident in STO as it is in CO. And yet, you were really considering playing, much less investing heavily into their next release?? I don't go as far as telling my friends not to get invested in Cryptic games, but I do tell them that I'm a LTS holder for both CO and STO and I let them know how well those two games have evolved....
And what's wrong with Cryptic saying, "The Foundry is for fanfic"?
There's nothing "wrong".
Its just that Foundry missions made specifically for the repeatable mission wrapper was THE least painful way to get fleetmarks. In other words, they gave players a break, and now are taking it away. Naturally instead of fixing the real issue (fleet mark events are incredibly painful, boring, repetitive and mind numbingly stale) they instead nerf the one way to get FMs that does not make people want to step away from the computer!
Notice they aren't limiting FM rewards to once per day, they are cutting it out completely. I can only assume they know if they limited to once per day players would just adjust and live with getting it that one time. Instead they hope...what? That players will flood the fleet mark events? Lol!!
While I can understand Cryptic's reasoning with us earning FM to fast, I have to wonder why they felt that removing the FM completely was a good idea.
I mean, they had to know that this would make the players go to "RED ALERT" mode. It's never a good idea to make sweeping changes like this without even mentioning it in some form. And no, a post by a dev in the Foundry forums does not really count imo. This should have been under the news heading in the fourms with a good explanation of why they are going to do said changes.
Comming from Star Wars: Galaxies, I am used to strange updates being made that makes little to no sense. The *cries in a corner* NGE comes to mind yet again. You must never make changes like the devs of SWG did without proper long term testing and communication with the player base.
So, yeah, please explain why you felt this was a "good" idea Cryptic, and how you plan to replace the FM we are loosing. As others have pointed out earlier, the current fleet missions gives a pittance of FM to the total time taken.
lol at all the whiners. Both my Fed and KDF fleets are some of the furthest along in starbase construction and fleet events got us there a whole lot more then officer reports did. Now you actually have to do stuff together as a fleet to get FM, what a concept.
The 20 man is really fun to do as a Fleet, try it sometime.
If dil farming is any harder due to scaling rewards it isn't a problem either as most should be done with rep system and can turn in all the marks and BNP for dil, making it easy to cap after a few STF.
When "Fleet Week" happened and they added Fleet marks to the foundry it was temporary, then they added them back after the event, saying As of now Fleet marks were staying, they never said it would stay forever. it was eventful that they were going to be removed.
Now you have to work with your fleet mates now and earn your marks, instead of soloing it.
lol at all the whiners. Both my Fed and KDF fleets are some of the furthest along in starbase construction and fleet events got us there a whole lot more then officer reports did. Now you actually have to do stuff together as a fleet to get FM, what a concept.
The 20 man is really fun to do as a Fleet, try it sometime.
If dil farming is any harder due to scaling rewards it isn't a problem either as most should be done with rep system and can turn in all the marks and BNP for dil, making it easy to cap after a few STF.
Playing together as a fleet? Heretic :-P
It is much easyier to whine on the forums than to be a decent human being :-P
And what's wrong with Cryptic saying, "The Foundry is for fanfic"?
If the Foundry is our equivalent to a "Holodeck" , then let me ask you this : did you see a sign outside a Holodeck/Holosuite that told users what to do ?
No .
Everyone who used the Holodeck on the shows seemed free to use it as they saw fit .
That is how we : the majority , would like to use the Foundry as well (as long as it is within the bounds of the EULA) .
(*note that I usually use IMHO instead of pretending to speak for the majority , so I will note that I made a special case here)
Second question :
When the PVP community asks for a nerf (or a new map) , does that usually impact the majority of the playerbase in a meaningful way ?
No .
When the RP or STF communities ask for changes , does that impact the way the majority of the game is played ?
No .
Yet when another minority -- the Foundry community cry nerf / exploit / AFK / Grinders / Clickys -- and ask for nerfs -- suddenly not such a small amount of players are affected .
In essence , it's the minority who dictate to the majority .
All this to appease a small minority of foundry authors who complained about there story missions not getting played enough. Good job, anger the majority to appease a small minority.
Exactly . And the sad thing is that their wonderfully crafted missions will still be gathering dust most of the time due to a lack of interest .
So in essence ppl are getting screwed over (once again) for nothing .
In the Tribble Release Notes thread, BranFlakes stated that fleet marks are intended for specific fleet and group activities.
Poor Bran . Back paddling once again in the line of duty .
Let us decide how we want to play and where we want to spend our Dilithium.
Don't take this the wrong way , but I think I hear Cryptic laughing and then saying No .
If it makes you feel better , I "hear" that same laughter when I promote the idea that the Foundry should be used for whatever we want to use it for .
Still that imaginary laughter does not stop me from championing a doomed cause ... , because it is the right cause in the end IMHO .
What just occurred to me, though, is that there is now a reason to queue up for PVE that rewards fleet marks and then AFK .
It is much easyier to whine on the forums than to be a decent human being :-P
Bollocks. Most players would have zero problem with playing the events if they would be adequately rewarded. 20 marks when you need 1000 for a daily trash project is a slap in the face however.
Bollocks. Most players would have zero problem with playing the events if they would be adequately rewarded. 20 marks when you need 1000 for a daily trash project is a slap in the face however.
That would suck if you're in a fleet alone....but if you're in a fleet fleet with people not so bad.;)
Yet when another minority -- the Foundry community cry nerf / exploit / AFK / Grinders / Clickys -- and ask for nerfs -- suddenly not such a small amount of players are affected .
In essence , it's the minority who dictate to the majority .
:
Cryptic said the FM for foundry were never permanent.
Cryptic said the FM for foundry were never permanent.
Really? I must've missed that. Not that they can't just go back and do whatever tehy want, honestly is anyone surprised anymore? I can understand the outrage but surely no one is surprised Cryptic would want to push players into their incredibly boring, slow, and very stingy fleet events. The twenty player base defense could've been interesting, but its just a laggy snoozefest. Seriously, would it have killed them to add interesting mechanics to the the invading dreadoughts at least?
That would suck if you're in a fleet alone....but if you're in a fleet fleet with people not so bad.;)
Still Bollocks. I'm in a 200 captain fleet. Still there are only ~15 at most online at the same time. A ton of captains are alts or old accounts. I'm sure this is common for casual, relatively open fleets. And of those 15 not everyone is interested in doing 3 fleet events a day. Especially since they offer nothing else but FMs. The daily at least also had Dil, so you had a reason to do it even if you weren't only after FMs. Some casual players who only play an hour a day struggle to use that time to even advance their own character with reputations, much less pour countless hours purely into FM grinding for the fleet.
Neither a 400 person fleet where everything gets filled almost by itself or a small fleet of hardcore players who are 6 hours a day in the game are the norm here. The reality for most fleets is somewhere in between. And THOSE are left behind in the cold to die.
Wow. This thread really got on since I last looked at it, not surprising I suppose.
I'm fine with the Dil scaling idea, no complaints from me there (or indeed anyone else as far as I can see.)
I do have a problem with taking the marks away. Those players who have to abuse the foundry to earn enough marks for projects only do so because they are the tiny handful who actually bother to contribute anything to their fleet. The truth is most players don't bother to contribute anything unless they are saving up for a ship, or for the equipment.
Another problem of course is that earning marks via other means is a waste of time. Especially on the KDF side where you are lucky to get into a fleet defence game outside the bonus event, and the 20 man fleet mission never launches at all. And all for what? 10 marks here, 25 odd there...for a project that needs 20k.
Personally I think fleets themselves should be more involved with the PvP aspect of the game. Earn marks as a fleet by fighting players from rival or enemy fleets. And make the reward useful, winning team receives 100+ marks each, the losing team 50 marks each.
Yet when another minority -- the Foundry community cry nerf / exploit / AFK / Grinders / Clickys -- and ask for nerfs -- suddenly not such a small amount of players are affected .
In essence , it's the minority who dictate to the majority .
Its not just the foundry author community that supports this. People who actually play the game legitimately and can earn dil and FM without the foundry don't like seeing people able to get the same or more rewards for little effort.
It remains to be seen if the complainers are really a majority or just a very loud minority.
If marks are taken away from Foundry rewards, then there needs to be some compensation elsewhere. Perhaps rewarding fleet marks for all the fleet actions, or increasing the reward for the current ones?
Comments
We may never know.
I would seriously hope that the FMs being taken away will either be put into increasing rewards that already exist in other parts of the game, or will be added to other areas.
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
R.I.P. small fleets and klink fleets trying desperately for that Tier 5 starbase.
Here's a thought. Keep the rewards as is and make a tier 6 base :O
With the reward system as it is, if I could live long enough, I could have a REAL starship before my fleet hit that goal.
Thanks cryptic for making my mind up for me.
No point in trying to level up my fleet starbase.
No point in logging in.
No point in spending any more of my money here.
There is no honor in staying.
Time for the Hegh'bat.
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
drkfrontiers said;
"Thanks to the grinders we now have all lost the daily FM's. Thanks. I knew that they would TRIBBLE it for the rest of us."
Fleet/Reps progression IS grinding.
Not to mention the severe lack of worthwhile sources for Fleet Marks guarantees some content gets more attention than others.
The WORST decision by Cryptic (casting the Season 7 STF fun-killing in it's shadow) in STO and it's only month 2 into 2013...
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
Now, I can completely understand why they want to remove this. It was too abusive and went against the original purpose of the foundry.
BUT!
They have to realize they'll have to buff other means of obtaining FMs in the same vein. And I think they plan on doing that. But that they don't wait until that part is worked out and they can nerf and compensate AT THE SAME TIME, is what baffles me. They do this over and over again and never learn. It makes me wonder if there are really human beings on the other end or just robots. Reminds me of a scene in Simpsons were Homer touches a hot stove plate over and over again, screaming each time. He just can't stop burning himself.
They don't even earn money with FMs, there is no way slowing those down increases their revenue in any shape or form. It just does not make sense unless you are the Cryptic staff in charge I guess.
Solution A: Increase the rewards for the fleet events to make them competitive again.
Solution B: Whack the foundry with the nerf-bat.
One of the above solutions would please the players. The other would not. Which solution do we get?...
There is nothing wrong with the Fleet Events with rewards, especially if you get up to Wave 10 in No Win Scenario which yields well over 200 Fleet Marks for doing 30 minutes of work (providing you are a skilled team).
And there are some who farm it doing the Fleet Mark Bonus events and literally get over 1000 Fleet Marks this way. So a fleet of these teams can bring in 5000 fleet marks per day (1000 per teammate).
Though personally, given the nerfs to Nukara and the Foundry, I wouldn't be surprised this gets "adjusted" as well. :P
Eh yeah, that is one fleet event that 99% of the players will never see that far. The rest who are stuck to pugs or casual fleeties get awesome stuff like 20 minutes for 17 marks base defense (even fails a ton in pugs) or 20 marks for 15 minutes of transporter babysitting. Only event at least FUN is Incursion IMO, but even that only leads you mid-thirty marks in a good group and is then on cooldown so you can get back to the TRIBBLE events.
Things need to change.
If
They are to remove the Fleet Marks reward from the Daily, then they need to:
A) Beef up the Fleet Mark rewards from the Fleet Events to about 50 to 100 FM's per event
As of right now, the only event worth playing for FM, besides the obvious Foundry Daily, are the Ground starbase incursion missions.
Simply the space one gives you next to nothing - but the ground gives you a measely 24 to 25 FM <--- That is waaaaay too low of a FM rewards for the time that it takes to complete those ground fleet events.
Fleet Marks Fleet event need a serious boost, and the starbase projects that require FM, need a serious reduction in FM requirement.
The game is becoming too spread out with Embassy Holdings, starbase holdings, and now the personal Reputation system (Though the Rep system requires no FM - it is a resource sink.)
You have experienced first hand how Cryptic handles its games, how it has a "let wither" and die approach. Its not as evident in STO as it is in CO. And yet, you were really considering playing, much less investing heavily into their next release?? I don't go as far as telling my friends not to get invested in Cryptic games, but I do tell them that I'm a LTS holder for both CO and STO and I let them know how well those two games have evolved....
There's nothing "wrong".
Its just that Foundry missions made specifically for the repeatable mission wrapper was THE least painful way to get fleetmarks. In other words, they gave players a break, and now are taking it away. Naturally instead of fixing the real issue (fleet mark events are incredibly painful, boring, repetitive and mind numbingly stale) they instead nerf the one way to get FMs that does not make people want to step away from the computer!
Notice they aren't limiting FM rewards to once per day, they are cutting it out completely. I can only assume they know if they limited to once per day players would just adjust and live with getting it that one time. Instead they hope...what? That players will flood the fleet mark events? Lol!!
Don't they already have exp boosters etc...?
I mean, they had to know that this would make the players go to "RED ALERT" mode. It's never a good idea to make sweeping changes like this without even mentioning it in some form. And no, a post by a dev in the Foundry forums does not really count imo. This should have been under the news heading in the fourms with a good explanation of why they are going to do said changes.
Comming from Star Wars: Galaxies, I am used to strange updates being made that makes little to no sense. The *cries in a corner* NGE comes to mind yet again. You must never make changes like the devs of SWG did without proper long term testing and communication with the player base.
So, yeah, please explain why you felt this was a "good" idea Cryptic, and how you plan to replace the FM we are loosing. As others have pointed out earlier, the current fleet missions gives a pittance of FM to the total time taken.
The 20 man is really fun to do as a Fleet, try it sometime.
If dil farming is any harder due to scaling rewards it isn't a problem either as most should be done with rep system and can turn in all the marks and BNP for dil, making it easy to cap after a few STF.
Now you have to work with your fleet mates now and earn your marks, instead of soloing it.
I've heard of players trying to pawn off their fleet marks to fleets that need them. Must be a lucrative business then.
Playing together as a fleet? Heretic :-P
It is much easyier to whine on the forums than to be a decent human being :-P
If the Foundry is our equivalent to a "Holodeck" , then let me ask you this : did you see a sign outside a Holodeck/Holosuite that told users what to do ?
No .
Everyone who used the Holodeck on the shows seemed free to use it as they saw fit .
That is how we : the majority , would like to use the Foundry as well (as long as it is within the bounds of the EULA) .
(*note that I usually use IMHO instead of pretending to speak for the majority , so I will note that I made a special case here)
Second question :
When the PVP community asks for a nerf (or a new map) , does that usually impact the majority of the playerbase in a meaningful way ?
No .
When the RP or STF communities ask for changes , does that impact the way the majority of the game is played ?
No .
Yet when another minority -- the Foundry community cry nerf / exploit / AFK / Grinders / Clickys -- and ask for nerfs -- suddenly not such a small amount of players are affected .
In essence , it's the minority who dictate to the majority .
Exactly . And the sad thing is that their wonderfully crafted missions will still be gathering dust most of the time due to a lack of interest .
So in essence ppl are getting screwed over (once again) for nothing .
Poor Bran . Back paddling once again in the line of duty .
Don't take this the wrong way , but I think I hear Cryptic laughing and then saying No .
If it makes you feel better , I "hear" that same laughter when I promote the idea that the Foundry should be used for whatever we want to use it for .
Still that imaginary laughter does not stop me from championing a doomed cause ... , because it is the right cause in the end IMHO .
Hurrah ... .
Bollocks. Most players would have zero problem with playing the events if they would be adequately rewarded. 20 marks when you need 1000 for a daily trash project is a slap in the face however.
That would suck if you're in a fleet alone....but if you're in a fleet fleet with people not so bad.;)
Cryptic said the FM for foundry were never permanent.
Really? I must've missed that. Not that they can't just go back and do whatever tehy want, honestly is anyone surprised anymore? I can understand the outrage but surely no one is surprised Cryptic would want to push players into their incredibly boring, slow, and very stingy fleet events. The twenty player base defense could've been interesting, but its just a laggy snoozefest. Seriously, would it have killed them to add interesting mechanics to the the invading dreadoughts at least?
Still Bollocks. I'm in a 200 captain fleet. Still there are only ~15 at most online at the same time. A ton of captains are alts or old accounts. I'm sure this is common for casual, relatively open fleets. And of those 15 not everyone is interested in doing 3 fleet events a day. Especially since they offer nothing else but FMs. The daily at least also had Dil, so you had a reason to do it even if you weren't only after FMs. Some casual players who only play an hour a day struggle to use that time to even advance their own character with reputations, much less pour countless hours purely into FM grinding for the fleet.
Neither a 400 person fleet where everything gets filled almost by itself or a small fleet of hardcore players who are 6 hours a day in the game are the norm here. The reality for most fleets is somewhere in between. And THOSE are left behind in the cold to die.
I'm fine with the Dil scaling idea, no complaints from me there (or indeed anyone else as far as I can see.)
I do have a problem with taking the marks away. Those players who have to abuse the foundry to earn enough marks for projects only do so because they are the tiny handful who actually bother to contribute anything to their fleet. The truth is most players don't bother to contribute anything unless they are saving up for a ship, or for the equipment.
Another problem of course is that earning marks via other means is a waste of time. Especially on the KDF side where you are lucky to get into a fleet defence game outside the bonus event, and the 20 man fleet mission never launches at all. And all for what? 10 marks here, 25 odd there...for a project that needs 20k.
Personally I think fleets themselves should be more involved with the PvP aspect of the game. Earn marks as a fleet by fighting players from rival or enemy fleets. And make the reward useful, winning team receives 100+ marks each, the losing team 50 marks each.
Just an idea.
Its not just the foundry author community that supports this. People who actually play the game legitimately and can earn dil and FM without the foundry don't like seeing people able to get the same or more rewards for little effort.
It remains to be seen if the complainers are really a majority or just a very loud minority.