I doubt there would be so much kick back if absolutely everything in the game didn't require grinding to get, get a finger out cryptic and give us varied content.
Not in a pwe game. Sorry. Their is metrics to back it up.
Seriously there has to be a way to do this that doesn't reduce the average number of fc's per effort per day
In fact, in the StarbaseUGC community, this topic dominated conversation the INSTANT we found out about it, and nobody thought that it should go live without some compensating increase in fleet marks elsewhere.
I'm guessing that the guys from the quotes below protested fiercely .... . :rolleyes:
Originally Posted by kirksplat
Awesome changes. I am happy that FMs were removed. Fleets should do fleet things for fleet things.
Originally Posted by cerberusfilms
Seems like robust and fair system all around It's exactly what we've been promised
Foundry authors didn't ask for this change; don't blame it on us.
Perhaps you all didn't intentionally intend for things to work out this way (or maybe you did, based on comments from some of the foundry authors), but you have to look at it from the perspective of the general playerbase.
A thread gets posted in the foundry subforum complaining about foundry FM grinders. Branflakes comments and says he's going to take it to Stahl, and a few days later we have what looks like a kneejerk reaction and FMs are yanked from foundry missions with no additional changes to fleet events to help make up for that loss.
The end result is we now have a situation where it looks like Cryptic is catering to the whims of a small but vocal group of players at the expense of every single fleet. Obviously the smaller fleets will be hit the hardest but all of them are impacted. This is very unfortunate for everyone to say the least.
EVERY post in this thread from the folks who were asking that the grinds be nerfed has been in support of PWE increasing fleet mark rewards in fleet events, to make up for this loss. ALL OF THEM.
Soory, but iread the posts, i read the ugly ugly posts by those people that should have been banned from the forum for being so tighly negative (yes thefavoritism was that obvious). All thoseclosed threads before the one megapost wasmade. The elitists wanted a nerf, and now here itis. Trying to rewrite history ordo damage control isn't going to change the words they said here or elsewhere.
as a player, when I see madness likethis being catered to
You have stolen from us. 99% of this game is nothing but grinding but that wasn't good enough for you so you decided to come and take from us the only part of the game we had and one we have put a huge amount of work into. You did this out of greed and spite--nothing more.
Ironically enough I was outfitting a new toon to have someone else to play foundry missions with. Atleast I don't have to buy him any gear now lol.
And yes why a company that gets such profit from ship sales would put a grind barrier between me giving them my money just astounds me.
No one has EVER accused Cryptic or PWE of being smart.
They'll give us tons of Omega and Dilithium, but throttle us on Romulan Marks and Fleet Marks, which are the two most important things for your Mk XII gear once you've unlocked Tier V Rep, and getting your fleet ship at the shipyard.
'What is The Matrix? Control.'
Marks are Cryptics Matrix...
While I like my fleetmates, I will not be FORCED to do fleet events everyday adding another grind to an already long boring day of it. Their going to start hemorrhaging customers soon. The only reason they've been going so long is because this is the only Star Trek MMO in town. Eventually people will get tired of it.
Just the latest result of the weekly staff meeting that comes up with kneejerk reactions to TRIBBLE off the customer base. Some of these hamfisted decisions are flabbergasting in their ineptitude. Thanks for helping me keep more money in my wallet, Cryptic, I spent too much money on this game anyway.
Note: the first two sentences in this post are sarcasm. The last most definitely is not.
I'm guessing that the guys from the quotes below protested fiercely .... . :rolleyes:
Looooooong golf clap ... .
Yet you leave out Kirksplat's post saying that he supports amosov78's idead of "a system where Fleet Marks would be award if members of the same fleet are teamed up together and playing any of the content in the game." [sic]
Of course you do, because if you didn't, it would undermine your attempts to revise history to make it seem like Foundry authors want fleet progression nerfed. Bad old Foundry authors, wanting fleet progression to be based on doing things together as a fleet. Clearly an insane notion. :rolleyes:
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
The main reason I was doing foundry mission was for the fleet marks. I thought it was the best change Cryptic made in a long time. I was getting so sick of the PVE ques and spending 30 minutes in a run that is marked to take only 10 minutes for only 14 fleet marks. I did still occasionally run PVE missions, but I liked the fact that I could self direct in a foundry mission and get a nice reward for my effort.
I already mentioned to someone at PWE that I didn't really care about the dilithium. I cared more about the marks. Now with that option gone I see no reason to use the foundry. I also see no reason to now give us additional expertise with the completion of a foundry mission. I have almost 5m expertise. What am I going to do with more of it? If I could use expertise to complete fleet projects (in place of the fleet marks) I probably wouldn't mind.
Part of the enticement of using the foundry was that I would get something useful to me (fleet marks) out of it while giving the authors of the missions some feedback. I see no reason to do this anymore. To show that I was happy with the game, I went ahead and subscribed about a week ago. Now I'm having buyers remorse.
No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
Foundry authors didn't ask for this change; don't blame it on us.
It is what you guys asked for. You guys wanted the clickies gone because no one were playing your missions. Granted, there was an influx of dilithium because of the clickies so it can be argued that the market was stabilized because of it.
Next up, authors wanting FM removed because again, people were only playing short mission to get the rewards. At least with the main story missions, playing for an hour could net you alot of loot and a lot of skill points/expertise. Playing a Foundry missions gets me some scalling dilithium (than again, thanks to the idiotic decision keeping Dominion lockbox Dilihium claims bound to character, I'm set on Dilithium for the next six months) and not much else.
The minority wanting people to play their way. Apparently, overly wordy and overly long Foundry missions are the only thing that counts as "legitimate gameplay."
I created a toon strictly to advance her by Foundry, contributing FM to the fleet to advance projects. Not sure what I'm going to do with her, as the Fleet Actions (and the ESTF for that matter) have gotten stale.
The next click on my desktop will not be STO but, SWTOR. :P
Never thought I'd actually be considering going back to SWTOR, as bad a that game is.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
In all honesty, I think Cryptic made a major knee-jerk reaction. They turned the Foundry Daily into a repeatable mission, that became too good, and so instead of reverting it, they took it out altogether.
Which reminds me of other similar parallels that Cryptic made, like the recent Tricobalt Mine Nerf. It originally was just a single mine, then changed it to be functional with Mine Patterns, that became too good, and nerfed the effect instead of revering it to it's less overpowered change. :rolleyes:
So to me, all they had to do was just make it a daily once again, that solves the Farming issue. Meanwhile, the EC Farming was untouched. :P
Nah... the Foundry wrapper was doomed to die from before it was born. A scaled reward system was planned from the start but not implemented until now. Took them over a year.... but they did it.
And they smacked the ec grinders with the nerfbat pretty hard too. "timid" is only timid until you shoot at them now. I used to be that people could blow up dozens of Borg Cubes without ever being shot at once.... now they have to at least try to fight for their loot.
Means we'll have to sit thru hours long missions from those RP writers who will insist we read their 10,000 word text filled boxes to get our measly 1400 dilith.
Why does no one read? WE NEED TO READ, AS A STORY IS NOT MUCH WITHOUT INFORMATION
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.
I did the foundry instead of grinding so I can avoid the "team" players that would zone out or not move or ignore everything.
Now I have to condens with them without any mechanism in place to repair it? Lol. No.
It is what you guys asked for. You guys wanted the clickies gone because no one were playing your missions. Granted, there was an influx of dilithium because of the clickies so it can be argued that the market was stabilized because of it.
Next up, authors wanting FM removed because again, people were only playing short mission to get the rewards. At least with the main story missions, playing for an hour could net you alot of loot and a lot of skill points/expertise. Playing a Foundry missions gets me some scalling dilithium (than again, thanks to the idiotic decision keeping Dominion lockbox Dilihium claims bound to character, I'm set on Dilithium for the next six months) and not much else.
The minority wanting people to play their way. Apparently, overly wordy and overly long Foundry missions are the only thing that counts as "legitimate gameplay."
I created a toon strictly to advance her by Foundry, contributing FM to the fleet to advance projects. Not sure what I'm going to do with her, as the Fleet Actions (and the ESTF for that matter) have gotten stale.
Never thought I'd actually be considering going back to SWTOR, as bad a that game is.
BS....
Clickies never had any effect on Foundry plays of real missions at all. NONE. Why? Because people never had to choose between doing a clickie or a real Foundry mission. Clickies got used for the FM, primarily by people who didn't bother to play any real missions.
what constitutes a "real mission"? Cryptic seems to think it's stories.... And it's Cryptic's opinion that matters, not mine.
Why does no one read? WE NEED TO READ, AS A STORY IS NOT MUCH WITHOUT INFORMATION
I do read. I read novels by amazing authors with great characters and stories. My standards are too high simply put to be entertained by the story of any game.
Setting I'll read about sure, but video game stories? When I have no ability to make a choice? I'll pass thanks. Call me an elitist I don't care because it is true.
Why does no one read? WE NEED TO READ, AS A STORY IS NOT MUCH WITHOUT INFORMATION
Nothing wrong with a good mission with some back story, but some of these missions are just too wordy, on top of being porrly written.
There needs to be a reason for people to invest time in mediocre content, and now there will be no reason to.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Perhaps the answer would to indirectly add fm's back to foundry missions by adding in an expertise to fm conversion similar to the commendation reports?
Today was the last day I will use the Foundry. Sorry but I'm not going to play a 2 hour long, and 97% of the with bad writing, story. I use to play them for kicks but now after this sorry taking away my FM is to much.
I do read. I read novels by amazing authors with great characters and stories. My standards are too high simply put to be entertained by the story of any game.
Setting I'll read about sure, but video game stories? When I have no ability to make a choice? I'll pass thanks. Call me an elitist I don't care because it is true.
I am not going to argue whether people should read but you miss out on a hell of a lot of good stuff. Some of my favorite missions are story's with reading in!
Also what/who are clickies?
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.
Clickies never had any effect on Foundry plays of real missions at all. NONE. Why? Because people never had to choose between doing a clickie or a real Foundry mission. Clickies got used for the FM, primarily by people who didn't bother to play any real missions.
what constitutes a "real mission"? Cryptic seems to think it's stories.... And it's Cryptic's opinion that matters, not mine.
Sorry, not BS.
The many past threads of Foundry authors getting upset that the top missions were clickies and no one were playing there missions is a testiment to that.
It is no coincidence that Crptic makes these changes after Foundry authors get upset. This is practically the only major thing that has gotten addressed.
Tons of people complain of bugs, beam array power drain etc = no fix.
A few foundry authors complain=current system is an afront to mankind and must be change.
You seem to be judging all foundry missions based on the worst ones you've ever seen.... why? that's kinda unfair, don't you think?
Doesn't matter, since each individual person has their own critera as to what a good mission is. It is a random roll of the dice as to whether or not the mission will appeal to the player.
The point is now there is no reason to roll that dice. There is no reason, outside some over developed sense of role-playing, to even bother with the Foundry.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
..Bad old Foundry authors, wanting fleet progression to be based on doing things together as a fleet. Clearly an insane notion. :rolleyes:
Not an insane notion, but I like doing them(Fleet Events) at MY pace. Now I'm forced to do them as another daily grind.
Seriously, figure out how many different grinds you have to do a day, then figure out how much actual fun you have a day.
Bet you the grind is alot bigger, and they keep adding to it, and adding to it.
It was nice to actually do something that took 15 minutes for a reward that was decently fair. Now its fleet events for 17 marks a pop that take 30 minutes.
If Foundry authors thought it was slow before, wait until after the patch. Maybe you'll get a few diehards that do that top spotlight mission for the 1440. but that'll be it.
There's just not enough time to do anything else...
Why does no one read? WE NEED TO READ, AS A STORY IS NOT MUCH WITHOUT INFORMATION
Heres the thing. I play for fun, not story. For me fun is blowing **** up in my ship. I like the grind missions. I love klingon nebula, so should i be penalized for playing content i like? (Yes, as long as the dilithium for the mission isnt changed im not being penalized, i just dont like the holier than thou attitude story tellers have regarding grinders)
To your point though, if done right you dont need words to convey a story, go play journey and you'll see what i mean. Or listen to classical music, the story changes depending on the listener.
Ignorance is an obstacle not an excuse
Let the stupid suffer
How do they measure playing time? What if the mission involves 2 clicks and I go AFK for 30 minutes between them?
Thats what im thinking, if the mission reward scales by length whats to stop people from making an empty room with 2 consoles, 1 to start the mission and 1 to end it with the player putting thier feet up and watching a movie for 2 hours between the 2 clicks, its stupid unless they put in a reward cap - which they probably will do
They must have known how much flack they would get over this change, if they didnt.....
Heres the thing. I play for fun, not story. For me fun is blowing **** up in my ship. I like the grind missions. I love klingon nebula, so should i be penalized for playing content i like? (Yes, as long as the dilithium for the mission isnt changed im not being penalized, i just dont like the holier than thou attitude story tellers have regarding grinders)
To your point though, if done right you dont need words to convey a story, go play journey and you'll see what i mean. Or listen to classical music, the story changes depending on the listener.
I listen to classical music thank you very much but STO is not like classical music and does not convey a good story with words, or not as well as the music I have listened too.
Have you noticed that voice over storys are really liked in part because people get a good story, and KNOW what the story is.
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.
Comments
Oh and i love friends.
Not in a pwe game. Sorry. Their is metrics to back it up.
Seriously there has to be a way to do this that doesn't reduce the average number of fc's per effort per day
Ironically enough I was outfitting a new toon to have someone else to play foundry missions with. Atleast I don't have to buy him any gear now lol.
And yes why a company that gets such profit from ship sales would put a grind barrier between me giving them my money just astounds me.
I'm guessing that the guys from the quotes below protested fiercely .... . :rolleyes:
Looooooong golf clap ... .
Perhaps you all didn't intentionally intend for things to work out this way (or maybe you did, based on comments from some of the foundry authors), but you have to look at it from the perspective of the general playerbase.
A thread gets posted in the foundry subforum complaining about foundry FM grinders. Branflakes comments and says he's going to take it to Stahl, and a few days later we have what looks like a kneejerk reaction and FMs are yanked from foundry missions with no additional changes to fleet events to help make up for that loss.
The end result is we now have a situation where it looks like Cryptic is catering to the whims of a small but vocal group of players at the expense of every single fleet. Obviously the smaller fleets will be hit the hardest but all of them are impacted. This is very unfortunate for everyone to say the least.
Soory, but iread the posts, i read the ugly ugly posts by those people that should have been banned from the forum for being so tighly negative (yes thefavoritism was that obvious). All thoseclosed threads before the one megapost wasmade. The elitists wanted a nerf, and now here itis. Trying to rewrite history ordo damage control isn't going to change the words they said here or elsewhere.
as a player, when I see madness likethis being catered to
therearejust no words
No one has EVER accused Cryptic or PWE of being smart.
They'll give us tons of Omega and Dilithium, but throttle us on Romulan Marks and Fleet Marks, which are the two most important things for your Mk XII gear once you've unlocked Tier V Rep, and getting your fleet ship at the shipyard.
'What is The Matrix? Control.'
Marks are Cryptics Matrix...
While I like my fleetmates, I will not be FORCED to do fleet events everyday adding another grind to an already long boring day of it. Their going to start hemorrhaging customers soon. The only reason they've been going so long is because this is the only Star Trek MMO in town. Eventually people will get tired of it.
Note: the first two sentences in this post are sarcasm. The last most definitely is not.
Yet you leave out Kirksplat's post saying that he supports amosov78's idead of "a system where Fleet Marks would be award if members of the same fleet are teamed up together and playing any of the content in the game." [sic]
Of course you do, because if you didn't, it would undermine your attempts to revise history to make it seem like Foundry authors want fleet progression nerfed. Bad old Foundry authors, wanting fleet progression to be based on doing things together as a fleet. Clearly an insane notion. :rolleyes:
I already mentioned to someone at PWE that I didn't really care about the dilithium. I cared more about the marks. Now with that option gone I see no reason to use the foundry. I also see no reason to now give us additional expertise with the completion of a foundry mission. I have almost 5m expertise. What am I going to do with more of it? If I could use expertise to complete fleet projects (in place of the fleet marks) I probably wouldn't mind.
Part of the enticement of using the foundry was that I would get something useful to me (fleet marks) out of it while giving the authors of the missions some feedback. I see no reason to do this anymore. To show that I was happy with the game, I went ahead and subscribed about a week ago. Now I'm having buyers remorse.
It is what you guys asked for. You guys wanted the clickies gone because no one were playing your missions. Granted, there was an influx of dilithium because of the clickies so it can be argued that the market was stabilized because of it.
Next up, authors wanting FM removed because again, people were only playing short mission to get the rewards. At least with the main story missions, playing for an hour could net you alot of loot and a lot of skill points/expertise. Playing a Foundry missions gets me some scalling dilithium (than again, thanks to the idiotic decision keeping Dominion lockbox Dilihium claims bound to character, I'm set on Dilithium for the next six months) and not much else.
The minority wanting people to play their way. Apparently, overly wordy and overly long Foundry missions are the only thing that counts as "legitimate gameplay."
I created a toon strictly to advance her by Foundry, contributing FM to the fleet to advance projects. Not sure what I'm going to do with her, as the Fleet Actions (and the ESTF for that matter) have gotten stale.
Never thought I'd actually be considering going back to SWTOR, as bad a that game is.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
And they smacked the ec grinders with the nerfbat pretty hard too. "timid" is only timid until you shoot at them now. I used to be that people could blow up dozens of Borg Cubes without ever being shot at once.... now they have to at least try to fight for their loot.
My character Tsin'xing
Why does no one read? WE NEED TO READ, AS A STORY IS NOT MUCH WITHOUT INFORMATION
I hope STO get's better ...
Now I have to condens with them without any mechanism in place to repair it? Lol. No.
Clickies never had any effect on Foundry plays of real missions at all. NONE. Why? Because people never had to choose between doing a clickie or a real Foundry mission. Clickies got used for the FM, primarily by people who didn't bother to play any real missions.
what constitutes a "real mission"? Cryptic seems to think it's stories.... And it's Cryptic's opinion that matters, not mine.
My character Tsin'xing
I do read. I read novels by amazing authors with great characters and stories. My standards are too high simply put to be entertained by the story of any game.
Setting I'll read about sure, but video game stories? When I have no ability to make a choice? I'll pass thanks. Call me an elitist I don't care because it is true.
Nothing wrong with a good mission with some back story, but some of these missions are just too wordy, on top of being porrly written.
There needs to be a reason for people to invest time in mediocre content, and now there will be no reason to.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
You seem to be judging all foundry missions based on the worst ones you've ever seen.... why? that's kinda unfair, don't you think?
My character Tsin'xing
I am not going to argue whether people should read but you miss out on a hell of a lot of good stuff. Some of my favorite missions are story's with reading in!
Also what/who are clickies?
I hope STO get's better ...
Sorry, not BS.
The many past threads of Foundry authors getting upset that the top missions were clickies and no one were playing there missions is a testiment to that.
It is no coincidence that Crptic makes these changes after Foundry authors get upset. This is practically the only major thing that has gotten addressed.
Tons of people complain of bugs, beam array power drain etc = no fix.
A few foundry authors complain=current system is an afront to mankind and must be change.
Doesn't matter, since each individual person has their own critera as to what a good mission is. It is a random roll of the dice as to whether or not the mission will appeal to the player.
The point is now there is no reason to roll that dice. There is no reason, outside some over developed sense of role-playing, to even bother with the Foundry.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Not an insane notion, but I like doing them(Fleet Events) at MY pace. Now I'm forced to do them as another daily grind.
Seriously, figure out how many different grinds you have to do a day, then figure out how much actual fun you have a day.
Bet you the grind is alot bigger, and they keep adding to it, and adding to it.
It was nice to actually do something that took 15 minutes for a reward that was decently fair. Now its fleet events for 17 marks a pop that take 30 minutes.
If Foundry authors thought it was slow before, wait until after the patch. Maybe you'll get a few diehards that do that top spotlight mission for the 1440. but that'll be it.
There's just not enough time to do anything else...
Heres the thing. I play for fun, not story. For me fun is blowing **** up in my ship. I like the grind missions. I love klingon nebula, so should i be penalized for playing content i like? (Yes, as long as the dilithium for the mission isnt changed im not being penalized, i just dont like the holier than thou attitude story tellers have regarding grinders)
To your point though, if done right you dont need words to convey a story, go play journey and you'll see what i mean. Or listen to classical music, the story changes depending on the listener.
Let the stupid suffer
Thats what im thinking, if the mission reward scales by length whats to stop people from making an empty room with 2 consoles, 1 to start the mission and 1 to end it with the player putting thier feet up and watching a movie for 2 hours between the 2 clicks, its stupid unless they put in a reward cap - which they probably will do
They must have known how much flack they would get over this change, if they didnt.....
I listen to classical music thank you very much but STO is not like classical music and does not convey a good story with words, or not as well as the music I have listened too.
Have you noticed that voice over storys are really liked in part because people get a good story, and KNOW what the story is.
I hope STO get's better ...
I hope STO get's better ...