All I'm saying is that we can demand change until we're blue in the face, it's not coming. Period. Like it or not, this is the game it is.
Unless we become authors and hound the devs on every media possible
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
All I'm saying is that we can demand change until we're blue in the face, it's not coming. Period. Like it or not, this is the game it is.
So where were you last year when Season 7 came out? Did you not see the uproar and back tracking they did after we the players did exactly what we are doing now?
I am a lifetime member (paid real dollars for it) and I have spent thousands of real dollars on this game. So yes, I do think I have a voice that needs to be listened to. Also I am just the tip of the iceberg of players feeling the same way!
PWE/Cryptic Stop the farm game, bring back the fun!
With the daily foundry missions removed and the rewards given automatic it's safe to say that the foundry has effectively been gutted.
Without a visible incentive the foundry will die a slow and painful death.
If the developers wanted the foundry gone, they should have just removed it.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
So where were you last year when Season 7 came out? Did you not see the uproar and back tracking they did after we the players did exactly what we are doing now?
PWE/Cryptic Stop the farm game, bring back the fun!
Zeus
So basically we need to stop being the silent majority and override the vocal minority.
With the daily foundry missions removed and the rewards given automatic it's safe to say that the foundry has effectively been gutted.
Without a visible incentive the foundry will die a slow and painful death.
If the developers wanted the foundry gone, they should have just removed it.
I had a couple of toons I wanted to level up with the Foundry. For them, the FM removal wouldn't be so bad, but without that IOR there is no XP incentive to play the Foundry.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Not going to happen, for all the reason(s) Supreme Heretic describes. This is their business model. Get used to it, or quit. Those are your only options.
So what you're saying is to fix STO, we need to bankrupt PWE?
*snort* Not gonna happen. STO could completely shut down tomorrow (and will, before they change their policies - there are countries in which, given the choice not running a gambling racket and not doing business, they choose the latter), and it wouldn't be a serious wound.
So basically we need to stop being the silent majority and override the vocal minority.
You are not the majority, silent or otherwise. You are the tiny, tiny, tiniest vocal minority. The majority is lining up to buy lockbox keys with big dumb happy smiles. They don't read the forums, they don't read patch notes, they don't care. They just fly around in their internet spaceships until the next shiny something distracts them. You cannot possibly spend more money on this game than they do, and money is all that PWE cares about.
With the daily foundry missions removed and the rewards given automatic it's safe to say that the foundry has effectively been gutted.
Without a visible incentive the foundry will die a slow and painful death.
If the developers wanted the foundry gone, they should have just removed it.
*cackles maniacally*
I take it you weren't around in Season 4. Back then the rewards for Foundry were nearly non-existent and people played it anyways.
Why? they wanted to see a new story they hadn't seen yet.
With the daily foundry missions removed and the rewards given automatic it's safe to say that the foundry has effectively been gutted.
Without a visible incentive the foundry will die a slow and painful death.
If the developers wanted the foundry gone, they should have just removed it.
Yes it only take a fool to do foundry missions now because you got to grind other stuff out!
Kind of saw this coming when I replied in a Foundry thread a while back. A handful of authors getting their feelings hurt because no one would play their stories.
In escense, "You will play my overly wordy mission or else!"
Another attempt to "legislate morality" and dictate to players how they will spend their hard earned free time.
i still wont play there boring, convoluded snoozefests. i play to max my gains in as short a time as possible, always have always will. dont worry well find new ways to circumvent the system.
Any STO players wondering how their((Cryptics)) systems going to work in NWN's now?
If they can pull this high handedness here, what will it be like there where they've had input from the beginning. They have nerf software intertwined into the very coding...
So much bad press about this patch everywhere. Its on the SWTOR forum..XD I'd imagine it'll hit MMORPG soon, although no one really takes anything said there seriously but, bad press is still bad press. And we know how people love to gossip on the interweb these days.
You'd think they'd want to pump STO's Foundry up, not make it a ghost town. People are still only doing grinders, just for a few hundred dilithium less, and of course without the FMs...
I take it you weren't around in Season 4. Back then the rewards for Foundry were nearly non-existent and people played it anyways.
You mean when the Foundry was still relatively new and had no idea the majority of missions were mediocre at best, and when we didn't need to grind FM or dilithium?
The Foundry isn't new anymore, and we all know the type of missions are avalable. There is no more incentive for the time investment.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
The issue is that players are, in general, idiots.
When they no longer see the rewards for the foundry, they won't play it.
Add the removal of fleetmarks and the need to grind for the reputation and shops and the foundry becomes a hostile place. Who can afford to play foundry nowadays?
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
If the Devs, like good Ferengi's, want you to farm until your eye balls bleed and you do it, then you aren't thinking outside the box. You need to scheme like a Ferengi (just like they do). If you see an opportunity, exploit it, just as long as it doesn't break TOS agreement. Exploits and bugs that are in the game are often a product of Cryptic's own poor programming. Profiteering because of them shouldn't necessarily be frowned upon either, unless it's used to troll other players . If the devs are willing to bend moral and ethical standards to include lock boxes in the game, then why shouldn't we, too, be able to bend ethical gamer standards by taking advantage of "exploits,"-hypothetically speaking of course?
Not going to happen, for all the reason(s) Supreme Heretic describes. This is their business model. Get used to it, or quit. Those are your only options.
*snort* Not gonna happen. STO could completely shut down tomorrow (and will, before they change their policies - there are countries in which, given the choice not running a gambling racket and not doing business, they choose the latter), and it wouldn't be a serious wound.
agamemnon:
You are not the majority, silent or otherwise. You are the tiny, tiny, tiniest vocal minority. The majority is lining up to buy lockbox keys with big dumb happy smiles. They don't read the forums, they don't care. They just fly around in their internet spaceships until the next shiny something distracts them.
hfmudd,
I value your opinion but if we all beleived what you are saying, no one would ever have discovered fire and we would be still in caves!
Change is what intelligent people do. Sheep follow and never lead.
You are entitled to your opinion but I am glad I can think outside the "farm".
KDF players should become foundry authors , smooch Cryptic's behind day and night and basically become Cryptic's Darling and then spring the trap :
Complain about how an un-finished KDF faction is an exploit , and BAM you've got yourself 10 levels of KDF goodness at least .
Or, it could be that we have a Community Manager who is proud of some of our stories and devs who agree with him, regarding what the Foundry is meant to be used for: player fanfic.
actually i take my last post back, if one of you JV authors can create a spotlight thats all in space, ill play it over and over. I HHHHAAAAATTTE ground combat in STO absolutely loathe it.
Zeus, I admire you for staunchly wanting change. However, even as we talk about this, people are validating it by buying a Vesta pack, or lockbox key, or whatever else right this second. We've all lined PWE's pockets to a degree as the shinier stuff hits the store and you can't help but "ooh" and "ahh".
Meanwhile, other than new ways to grind, the game never really gets treated to more core content or a full-on expansion. Just a token featured episode once in a blue moon, lots of new store items, new currencies to grind for, and promises that in just a short while new core content and real features like another faction are coming. I'd pretty much settle for a fully fleshed out KDF 1-50 player experience, the promised PvP revamp, and the bugs like Kerrat being sorted out for starters.
Oh, one can wish.
Lifetime subber and former STO player from when it didn't suck.
actually i take my last post back, if one of you JV authors can create a spotlight thats all in space, ill play it over and over. I HHHHAAAAATTTE ground combat in STO absolutely loathe it.
Because the mob needs a target for their outrage, and they're going to lynch the first author they can find to take the blame, guilty or not? :rolleyes:
There'll probably be some splash damage on foundry authors in general, especially the more story based authors.
However, on the whole I doubt it'll be random.
In this thread a foundry author admitted to, once and possibly not as seriously as other comments, calling for FM to be removed from foundry missions.
Sadly it'll be authors such as them who'll bear the brunt.
Some foundry authors have asked (and there is ample, irrefutable evidence of this) for rewards to be taken away from other players in order to have their own efforts appreciated more.
That, all by itself, was wrong. Regardless of whether cryptic acted on it or not. This game belongs to all of us, no matter how we want to play. It is not the right of any group in STO(foundry author, PvPers, RPers no-one) to tell anyone else how to enjoy this game or to lobby cryptic to change things in their favour.
That fact has been lost sight of by some foundry authors.
Or, it could be that we have a Community Manager who is proud of some of our stories and devs who agree with him, regarding what the Foundry is meant to be used for: player fanfic.
Does Brandon also get a Black robe for the meetings.;)
If the Devs, like good Ferengi's, want you to farm until your eye balls bleed and you do it, then you aren't thinking outside the box. You need to scheme like a Ferengi (just like they do). If you see an opportunity, exploit it, just as long as it doesn't break TOS agreement. Exploits and bugs that are in the game are often a product of Cryptic's own poor programming. Profiteering because of them shouldn't necessarily be frowned upon either, unless it's used to troll other players . If the devs are willing to bend moral and ethical standards to include lock boxes in the game, then why shouldn't we, too, be able to bend ethical gamer standards by taking advantage of "exploits,"-hypothetically speaking of course?
I don't scheme like a Ferengi.....I do it like a Romulan.
If the Devs, like good Ferengi's, want you to farm until your eye balls bleed and you do it, then you aren't thinking outside the box. You need to scheme like a Ferengi (just like they do). If you see an opportunity, exploit it, just as long as it doesn't break TOS agreement. Exploits and bugs that are in the game are often a product of Cryptic's own poor programming. Profiteering because of them shouldn't necessarily be frowned upon either, unless it's used to troll other players . If the devs are willing to bend moral and ethical standards to include lock boxes in the game, then why shouldn't we, too, be able to bend ethical gamer standards by taking advantage of "exploits,"-hypothetically speaking of course?
rinkster:
Except that you yourself have admitted this is no longer about right or wrong, if it ever was. It's about an angry mob looking for a target for their anger, because they can't do anything about the thing that actually made them angry. They can yell at the sky, but that's all - and that's not enough. They want to think they can do something, that they have power, that they have control. Even if they don't. Especially if they don't.
Like you said, it's human nature.
My mistake, my sin, has been in trying to tell them "Actually, no, God can do whatever He likes and you just have to take it." They don't want to hear that.
Zeus, I admire you for staunchly wanting change. However, even as we talk about this, people are validating it by buying a Vesta pack, or lockbox key, or whatever else right this second. We've all lined PWE's pockets to a degree as the shinier stuff hits the store and you can't help but "ooh" and "ahh".
Meanwhile, other than new ways to grind, the game never really gets treated to more core content or a full-on expansion. Just a token featured episode once in a blue moon, lots of new store items, new currencies to grind for, and promises that in just a short while new core content and real features like another faction are coming. I'd pretty much settle for a fully fleshed out KDF 1-50 player experience, the promised PvP revamp, and the bugs like Kerrat being sorted out for starters.
Oh, one can wish.
Very true. How sad it is, but I still have hope for every change started with just one person believing it.
He probably thought if he kept the mission on his log after the patch; he'd still be able to re-take it again after the patch.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I'll see your "3 major nerfs" and raise you three years that pretty much every Klingon player, ever, has been shouting for more.
That's a bad (and inaccurate) comparison for more than one reason .
But if you want to address Cryptic's "selective hearing" then use something closer to home as an example .
I for one find it ... both sad and fascinating that Cryptic can hear the word "exploit" and "charge to the foundry's aid" -- yet they can put up tons of prodding from the same foundry authors about tagging more assets , pathing , group actions , dialogue options and whatever else the authors are asking 4 these days (I stopped listening to podcastUGC so I'm not up to date) -- and remain silent for most of the time .
Yes , that is a most curious (and hypocritical) treatment .
BUT it's also an understandable one .
Because the way I see it , taking away dil awards for clickys , modifying the 'timid creature' against AFK-ers and now taking away the fleetmarks -- all that didn't actually take Cryptic long to do .
In short it was easy for them to do .
The other stuff that you ask for -- the stuff that gets mostly ignored -- that's Real Work you're asking them to do .
And why should they do Real Work for you ? You're only the %^&* who is trying to make content in the Foundry so Cryptic does not have to .
But instead of looking at the things the way they are , it's much easier to distract yourself by playing the passive aggressive martyr for a "crime" you may have not personally committed , but you may have suffered for (in the form of 1 star bombings) .
There'll probably be some splash damage on foundry authors in general, especially the more story based authors.
However, on the whole I doubt it'll be random.
In this thread a foundry author admitted to, once and possibly not as seriously as other comments, calling for FM to be removed from foundry missions.
Sadly it'll be authors such as them who'll bear the brunt.
Some foundry authors have asked (and there is ample, irrefutable evidence of this) for rewards to be taken away from other players in order to have their own efforts appreciated more.
That, all by itself, was wrong. Regardless of whether cryptic acted on it or not. This game belongs to all of us, no matter how we want to play. It is not the right of any group in STO(foundry author, PvPers, RPers no-one) to tell anyone else how to enjoy this game or to lobby cryptic to change things in their favour.
That fact has been lost sight of by some foundry authors.
Agreed.
I haven't seen those posts, but if that's all true that's really terrible. I appreciated the Foundry missions those authors made/make. With the rewards as they were yesterday they were a fun way to grind and to get gifts of imagination from me fellow trekkie/ers.
This feels like a punishment.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Comments
Unless we become authors and hound the devs on every media possible
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
So where were you last year when Season 7 came out? Did you not see the uproar and back tracking they did after we the players did exactly what we are doing now?
I am a lifetime member (paid real dollars for it) and I have spent thousands of real dollars on this game. So yes, I do think I have a voice that needs to be listened to. Also I am just the tip of the iceberg of players feeling the same way!
PWE/Cryptic Stop the farm game, bring back the fun!
Zeus
Without a visible incentive the foundry will die a slow and painful death.
If the developers wanted the foundry gone, they should have just removed it.
So basically we need to stop being the silent majority and override the vocal minority.
I had a couple of toons I wanted to level up with the Foundry. For them, the FM removal wouldn't be so bad, but without that IOR there is no XP incentive to play the Foundry.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
*snort* Not gonna happen. STO could completely shut down tomorrow (and will, before they change their policies - there are countries in which, given the choice not running a gambling racket and not doing business, they choose the latter), and it wouldn't be a serious wound.
You are not the majority, silent or otherwise. You are the tiny, tiny, tiniest vocal minority. The majority is lining up to buy lockbox keys with big dumb happy smiles. They don't read the forums, they don't read patch notes, they don't care. They just fly around in their internet spaceships until the next shiny something distracts them. You cannot possibly spend more money on this game than they do, and money is all that PWE cares about.
I take it you weren't around in Season 4. Back then the rewards for Foundry were nearly non-existent and people played it anyways.
Why? they wanted to see a new story they hadn't seen yet.
My character Tsin'xing
Yes it only take a fool to do foundry missions now because you got to grind other stuff out!
i still wont play there boring, convoluded snoozefests. i play to max my gains in as short a time as possible, always have always will. dont worry well find new ways to circumvent the system.
If they can pull this high handedness here, what will it be like there where they've had input from the beginning. They have nerf software intertwined into the very coding...
So much bad press about this patch everywhere. Its on the SWTOR forum..XD I'd imagine it'll hit MMORPG soon, although no one really takes anything said there seriously but, bad press is still bad press. And we know how people love to gossip on the interweb these days.
You'd think they'd want to pump STO's Foundry up, not make it a ghost town. People are still only doing grinders, just for a few hundred dilithium less, and of course without the FMs...
That was before we realized most of them were horrible, typo ridden missions. There are some good ones, but the majority are bunk...
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
You mean when the Foundry was still relatively new and had no idea the majority of missions were mediocre at best, and when we didn't need to grind FM or dilithium?
The Foundry isn't new anymore, and we all know the type of missions are avalable. There is no more incentive for the time investment.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
When they no longer see the rewards for the foundry, they won't play it.
Add the removal of fleetmarks and the need to grind for the reputation and shops and the foundry becomes a hostile place. Who can afford to play foundry nowadays?
hfmudd,
I value your opinion but if we all beleived what you are saying, no one would ever have discovered fire and we would be still in caves!
Change is what intelligent people do. Sheep follow and never lead.
You are entitled to your opinion but I am glad I can think outside the "farm".
PWE/Cryptic Stop the farm, bring back the fun!
Zeus
Or, it could be that we have a Community Manager who is proud of some of our stories and devs who agree with him, regarding what the Foundry is meant to be used for: player fanfic.
Meanwhile, other than new ways to grind, the game never really gets treated to more core content or a full-on expansion. Just a token featured episode once in a blue moon, lots of new store items, new currencies to grind for, and promises that in just a short while new core content and real features like another faction are coming. I'd pretty much settle for a fully fleshed out KDF 1-50 player experience, the promised PvP revamp, and the bugs like Kerrat being sorted out for starters.
Oh, one can wish.
Fed: Astarsha, level 60 tactical officer
KDF: K'tana level 54 tactical officer
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."
-- Agent K
Same here...
There'll probably be some splash damage on foundry authors in general, especially the more story based authors.
However, on the whole I doubt it'll be random.
In this thread a foundry author admitted to, once and possibly not as seriously as other comments, calling for FM to be removed from foundry missions.
Sadly it'll be authors such as them who'll bear the brunt.
Some foundry authors have asked (and there is ample, irrefutable evidence of this) for rewards to be taken away from other players in order to have their own efforts appreciated more.
That, all by itself, was wrong. Regardless of whether cryptic acted on it or not. This game belongs to all of us, no matter how we want to play. It is not the right of any group in STO(foundry author, PvPers, RPers no-one) to tell anyone else how to enjoy this game or to lobby cryptic to change things in their favour.
That fact has been lost sight of by some foundry authors.
Does Brandon also get a Black robe for the meetings.;)
I don't scheme like a Ferengi.....I do it like a Romulan.
^^i like this guy
:cool:
/10chars
Except that you yourself have admitted this is no longer about right or wrong, if it ever was. It's about an angry mob looking for a target for their anger, because they can't do anything about the thing that actually made them angry. They can yell at the sky, but that's all - and that's not enough. They want to think they can do something, that they have power, that they have control. Even if they don't. Especially if they don't.
Like you said, it's human nature.
My mistake, my sin, has been in trying to tell them "Actually, no, God can do whatever He likes and you just have to take it." They don't want to hear that.
Very true. How sad it is, but I still have hope for every change started with just one person believing it.
PWE/Cryptic Stop the farming, bring back the fun!
Zeus
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
That's a bad (and inaccurate) comparison for more than one reason .
But if you want to address Cryptic's "selective hearing" then use something closer to home as an example .
I for one find it ... both sad and fascinating that Cryptic can hear the word "exploit" and "charge to the foundry's aid" -- yet they can put up tons of prodding from the same foundry authors about tagging more assets , pathing , group actions , dialogue options and whatever else the authors are asking 4 these days (I stopped listening to podcastUGC so I'm not up to date) -- and remain silent for most of the time .
Yes , that is a most curious (and hypocritical) treatment .
BUT it's also an understandable one .
Because the way I see it , taking away dil awards for clickys , modifying the 'timid creature' against AFK-ers and now taking away the fleetmarks -- all that didn't actually take Cryptic long to do .
In short it was easy for them to do .
The other stuff that you ask for -- the stuff that gets mostly ignored -- that's Real Work you're asking them to do .
And why should they do Real Work for you ? You're only the %^&* who is trying to make content in the Foundry so Cryptic does not have to .
But instead of looking at the things the way they are , it's much easier to distract yourself by playing the passive aggressive martyr for a "crime" you may have not personally committed , but you may have suffered for (in the form of 1 star bombings) .
Agreed.
I haven't seen those posts, but if that's all true that's really terrible. I appreciated the Foundry missions those authors made/make. With the rewards as they were yesterday they were a fun way to grind and to get gifts of imagination from me fellow trekkie/ers.
This feels like a punishment.