I feel for you man, but I'll prolly open 6 (just for the lobi's) and hope I'm as lucky winning those claims as you.
I know I am in a tight spot financially in the game world:P;) But that is not the issue - this is a badly designed prize and my "in-game" wealth is meaningless if as I suspect there are many people buying lots of keys and boxes and having most of these faily useless items pop up.
I will buy the ships later when the price drops - I have 7 packed Wells bought at $35 million that I hope will go up in price.
Seriously this mining thing is going to be a thorn in this box - and that is a BAD thing - because I want Cryptic to do well and the game to keep going.
I understand the complaint about it being character bound though I do not share it. What I don't understand is why limit yourself to the 8K refinement cap. So you would have some spare unrefined dilithium, big deal. In my opinion, that would be a good thing as there may be a day you can't get on or there is something else you want to do in game that does not reward dilithium but with enough surplus, you can still refine your cap.
This is a daily event that you have to open - so it's like the foundry but with the old 20hr cool down. Again another restriction. Plus it does not help having a backlog if you don't log in 1 day as you can't make up that's missed day carrying forward. So basically I have to log on 180 days to go through these things and do it every day - I would rather do a couple ESTF or some PvP or something else then have to set up the mission - fly to the moon - put on the EV suit - go out and do the mini-game - 180 times?? That is like sticking a fork in my eye over and over!
you can bypass the 8K cap with multiple characters, which most players do already.
Actually, I call shenanigans on this. MOST players clearly don't. Per the devs before the latest dilithium changes the average player only refined 13,000 dilithium per WEEK. Clearly they're not only failing to exceed the cap per day, they're not even getting remotely close to it.
I imagine that the changes helped this some. I also imagine that the average player still fails to hit 8,000 dilithium per day on a single character.
Now, MOST FORUMITES, absolutely. You'd be bang on correct with that change to your statement.
I don't understand why these are bound (other than Cryptic continuing to try and put a stranglehold on Dilithium) after all, what's the difference between these and Contraband?
In fact, Contraband is more convenient since for 3 minutes work across 12 hours you can get 6000 Dilithium without having to suit up and play a stupid mini-game.
Anyone that's got time to exploit the Mining Claims has likely got time to exploit Contraband too so really - what's the point in binding these?
I don't understand why the mining claims are stowed in their own little boxes, if those aren't in some way transferable, either between characters on an account, or everywhere. It's just needless packaging. As far as I can see, they might as well just chucked the mining claims, six or ten at a time, into the lockboxes directly.
Here's the deal. If people would just stop buying the freakin' keys, Cryptic would have to stop making the freakin' boxes. It's simple supply, and demand, economics, people!
It's painfully clear that people won't do that. No matter how much whining you see on the forms about the lockboxes, people are speaking with their wallets and buying keys.
Myself I have yet to buy a single key, and don't plan on doing so anytime in the future. But people might as well quit complaining about them, they're here to stay, because no matter how many posts people make, it's quite clear they sell well and make Cryptic money.
yes don't buy them keys! its exploitation of the fan base! and why oh why do Star Trek fans have to be total dicks with money "me included". i bet 90% of the fans don't care about the money cus its all about "i NEED TO HAVE THAT" factor, well peeps wen this game fails and it will someday, all that virtual "i NEED TO HAVE THAT" items will be GONE! just saying.
They do, if it's account on pick up it will say it.
Also to the OP.....ummm just transfer all the Dilithium to whoever you want, your mining rights is bound but not the Dilithium you get out of it....most likely the reason it's bound.
got news for yah that dill transfer thingie players do is not as intended and they will fix that soon..
This is a daily event that you have to open - so it's like the foundry but with the old 20hr cool down. Again another restriction. Plus it does not help having a backlog if you don't log in 1 day as you can't make up that's missed day carrying forward. So basically I have to log on 180 days to go through these things and do it every day - I would rather do a couple ESTF or some PvP or something else then have to set up the mission - fly to the moon - put on the EV suit - go out and do the mini-game - 180 times?? That is like sticking a fork in my eye over and over!
IMHO that is a weak response. Believe me, I do feel your pain. I have multiple characters and I use the dilithium on each one different. One is used for doing the rep system and getting the gear from it. One earns the dilithium for crafting (Though I do not do too much of it right now). Three I sell the dilithium for Zen and the rest goes to fleet projects. If the mining claims were account bound, then that would make things easier. That said, you claim you would rather do ESTF and PvP. Both of those you can queue for anywhere on the map. You can park outside the mine and queue up. Take a short break between matches to mine then go back to queue for more.
IMHO that is a weak response. Believe me, I do feel your pain. I have multiple characters and I use the dilithium on each one different. One is used for doing the rep system and getting the gear from it. One earns the dilithium for crafting (Though I do not do too much of it right now). Three I sell the dilithium for Zen and the rest goes to fleet projects. If the mining claims were account bound, then that would make things easier. That said, you claim you would rather do ESTF and PvP. Both of those you can queue for anywhere on the map. You can park outside the mine and queue up. Take a short break between matches to mine then go back to queue for more.
I am also a heavy doffer - and that means a lot of moving around. And the romulan rep thing also keeps me at the other side of the galaxy often. It's just so much moving around for this thing all on 1 toon. Could I use them all? Of course but it will take a year+
This game is becoming less and less ALT friendly by the day. Add to that I play KDF and Fed so there is lots of back and forth. I would like the claims on some of my KDF toons but I got them on the Fed toon. It just such a dumb system to have bound to character.
Like I said 3 layers of restriction is too much - character bound/refine cap/daily CD - it's fine if someone bought 10 keys and got 10 claims - but I am sure there are thousands of players who bought 100+ keys and now have 100+claims on one toon.
To be fair to Cryptic, I don't think they expected someone to buy 150+ Keys... so umm... I'd say you're partially at fault here, at least...
When lobi comes on average of 5.5 a box, and with a ship costing 800 lobi, I believe Cryptic does indeed expect you to buy 150+ keys to get a ship and associated equipment.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
What point I don't open boxes that's my point and if I did it wont be on one character because of lobi, unless I was going to use the lobi store which I don't because it is also bound to one character.
I've played this game long enough to know I don't need to spend money on it....I would love to spend money but thanks to the exchange rate with Zen and Dil I can't pass up on all that Zen.
And here is the crux of the problem. I would actually spend money to get keys to open boxes if the items and lobi were not character bound.
While it doesn't bother you, someone actually has to go through the process in order to get the item to put it on the exchange. Were lobi not character bound, there would be more lobi store items on the exchange at lower prices - oh, wait, now it does concern you.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
There is no exploit available by not having these bound, so what if people would want to sell them?
They dont make it any easier to refine the dilithium once you have it and they dont break anything by existing, making these any kind of bound was a mistake.
[SIGPIC]InGame - @Darth_Tauri[/SIGPIC]
Joined - 9/2011
"You Best Make Peace With Your Dear & Fluffy Lord" - Malcolm Reynolds
Just chalk this up as another questionable design decision.
Like with all questionable design decisions, three questions can be asked:
1) What nincompoop proposed it?
2) What was the though process of said nincompoop?
3) What nincompoop approved it?
Although I'm not sure I want to know the answer. As Ambassador G'kar once about every race in the galaxy having a version of swedish meatballs, "I suspect it's one of those great universal mysteries which will either never be explained, or which would drive you mad if you ever learned the truth."
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
If you are going for lobi, the only real 'fix' (and it isn't much of a fix) is just to open other boxes. But unfortunately if you are wanting the prizes over lobi, the best choice might just be in the future to simply open Dominion lockboxes on multiple toons if you have em.
Here is to hoping that they change these soon to be account bound.
The only major reasoning I could think of, is that they wanted to avoid mass amounts of dilithium flooding the market, especially these first few days the lockbox is out, due to farming alts. I know I would use them on multiple toons to get a ton of quick dil if I had that many.
Unfortunately, if these prizes are so common, all that ends up doing is hurting the majority of players, due to the potential abuse that they are preventing. So we end up with what happened to the OP, and probably others as well.
If it's already causing problems on day one, what's to say it won't continue to be an issue?
So what might be good is to make these account bound, and make it so that an individual account can only do this mission so many times. Like no more than 3 times or so. So you could do it on a couple toons a day, which would let you use them up quickly, but also prevent you from abusing and farming it too much.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Right, it's Cryptics fault you opened all 200 boxes on one character and ended up with all the dili certs there? The other prizes aren't bound, why not split the keys equally?
Right, it's Cryptics fault you opened all 200 boxes on one character and ended up with all the dili certs there? The other prizes aren't bound, why not split the keys equally?
Right, because you didn't think. Fair. Next.
No it's because of the other genius decision: making lobi character bound
And here is the crux of the problem. I would actually spend money to get keys to open boxes if the items and lobi were not character bound.
While it doesn't bother you, someone actually has to go through the process in order to get the item to put it on the exchange. Were lobi not character bound, there would be more lobi store items on the exchange at lower prices - oh, wait, now it does concern you.
apparently there is still enough in the game that I got all the time uniforms and ships....sooo someone is buying them. to bad we don't know sellers names on the exchange I would send them a thank you card
Honestly I could use these mining claims on my fed toon. I already have my Orion toon planned out and that doesn't require lobi.
My Fed toon not so much, I never use him any more, so opening lockboxes on him and parking him by the moon could work very well for me, use him to farm dilithium and collect lobi, and have a chance to win a ship, sell whatPpppppp I don't want for EC.
Right now I don't use Alts to farm Dilithium because A that would take up too much time and B I prefer Fleet Marks right now, which does not have a daily ceiling.
I really don't use Dilithium at the moment except to trade it in for Fleet Credits.
That may change later.
Still I'm not going to spend any money as I'm boycotting the Dominion Lockboxes because all these lockbox ships mean the death of the Dominion as a playable faction, a horrible idea. I will not support with money anything that removes possible factions from being in in the future, its cutting off your hands to spite your feet.
I will not participate till I know the JHEC, JSA and the JDC does not mean the death to a playable Dominion Faction at a possible future date.
I did it once and never looked back.
(same with the radiation one on New Romulas and the crystal one on Nucarra)
Thank goodness there's really nothing in the Dominion Boxes I need or want.
I won't waste my money on something I might get and absolutely don't want.
Sorry Cryptic, bad decision as far as I'm concerned, you'll get no revenue from me with this particular scheme.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I'm still saving Lobi on one character for the last few Temporal items he needs, but I have more than 200 Temporal lock boxes sitting in my bank, so I won't need to worry about the Dominion ones. In fact, any other lock boxes I'll just drop on the Exchange. Even 100EC for them is a higher value for me.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
I'm still saving Lobi on one character for the last few Temporal items he needs, but I have more than 200 Temporal lock boxes sitting in my bank, so I won't need to worry about the Dominion ones. In fact, any other lock boxes I'll just drop on the Exchange. Even 100EC for them is a higher value for me.
Funny thing is after a few hours I started to see a lot of fly - bys for Temporal ship/D'kora/Galor
I guess a lot of people pretty quickly decided this box was TRIBBLE.
If I open any more for lobi it won't be the Dominion one as long as these mining claims are bound to character and nor account bound.
I have seen everything. People complaining about too much dilithium. Wow.
Yeah, it would've been nicer to have those account-bound to help refine them, but it was obvious from the beginning they would not be tradable, since they're basically dilithium-in-a-box.
I've gotten one of these in my box opening escapades recently.
I must admit it is a bit annoying, dilithium is not hard to come by, I currently have 85,005 built up, it's refining it that's the pain, I'm FTP so I never moan to much, but I have bought zen in the past so it's not like I'm a complete freeloader! But anyway, being only able to refine 8000 a day plus the now reduced d'off mission lifers can get at SFA every 20 hours.
What I would have preferred if they insist on having these mining claims is one of the following:
Gives refined dilithium
Is unbound
Is bound to account (I'd happily use this on my KDF toon as I rarely play on the KDF side but as I said my FED toon has plenty of dilithium I can't refine as is.)
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan
I purchased $200 worth of keys (I know..:o ), and didn't get the HEC either. I'm resigned to purchasing it off the exchange. I did get enough lobi to buy the other ship (didn't really care for it).
Honestly you'd have been far better off selling the keys for EC and buying the ship outright. It's guaranteed to be sub-50m toward the end of the lock box.
Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard?
i got 70 mining claims out of 80 Boxes ( = 2 mirror ships, a lot of white and green DOffs, 3 blue 1 purple, 9 purple special DOffs and a hand full of almost useful polaron weapons. NO jemmy ship... but 450 Lobi, and Lobi is what i wanted, got me all the store items and bought the Dreadnought for EC, ...with that *meh non canon cryptic ship* i'll wait til it drops to 50 mil to grab the console... if at all)
i did the mining once yesterday and got 5000 dilithium out of my first try.
70 x 5000 = 350.000 dilithium
350k dil at the current rate of roughly 90/1 Zen results in ~ 3888 Zen
so i've spend 8000 Zen, and through these claims i will make roughly half of it back ....over time
...i guess its a good enough a reason to go there once a day from now on...
but 18000 EC for the direct transwarp from ESD means i am going to fly there which takes time and that means my daily routine is that much longer for the next 3 months... hmmm maybe if i park this char at DS9?
With the "understanding" that Cryptic, in a sadistic manner, wants "each toon" to open 800-1100 Lobi per box (the amount necessary for 1 "consolation ship", the associated upgrade pack, and a pile of consumables), I'm gonna make the following statement:
If the (unadvertised) drop rate on mining claims = ~20%, then I can forsee getting 180 claims in the "normal" course of opening Dominion boxes, and I would argue that character-binding this amount of reward to one character is bad, and it should be at least account-bound on pickup as I can see a pressing need to keep these off the exchange.
However, if this is the result of a 10% drop rate, then 180 = 1600+ Lobi, and we're looking at this being a case of "unintended side effects of raw player greed" and any player seeking this much lobi really should be spreading it around to different characters - heck, if this is part of a "one Jemmy-dread (JH-DN) for main, one JH-DN for the exchange" operation, then the lobi should have been spread out over 2 characters...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Comments
I know I am in a tight spot financially in the game world:P;) But that is not the issue - this is a badly designed prize and my "in-game" wealth is meaningless if as I suspect there are many people buying lots of keys and boxes and having most of these faily useless items pop up.
I will buy the ships later when the price drops - I have 7 packed Wells bought at $35 million that I hope will go up in price.
Seriously this mining thing is going to be a thorn in this box - and that is a BAD thing - because I want Cryptic to do well and the game to keep going.
This is a daily event that you have to open - so it's like the foundry but with the old 20hr cool down. Again another restriction. Plus it does not help having a backlog if you don't log in 1 day as you can't make up that's missed day carrying forward. So basically I have to log on 180 days to go through these things and do it every day - I would rather do a couple ESTF or some PvP or something else then have to set up the mission - fly to the moon - put on the EV suit - go out and do the mini-game - 180 times?? That is like sticking a fork in my eye over and over!
Actually, I call shenanigans on this. MOST players clearly don't. Per the devs before the latest dilithium changes the average player only refined 13,000 dilithium per WEEK. Clearly they're not only failing to exceed the cap per day, they're not even getting remotely close to it.
I imagine that the changes helped this some. I also imagine that the average player still fails to hit 8,000 dilithium per day on a single character.
Now, MOST FORUMITES, absolutely. You'd be bang on correct with that change to your statement.
In fact, Contraband is more convenient since for 3 minutes work across 12 hours you can get 6000 Dilithium without having to suit up and play a stupid mini-game.
Anyone that's got time to exploit the Mining Claims has likely got time to exploit Contraband too so really - what's the point in binding these?
UPDATE 4375 first go my mining skills need practice:P
Seems pointless.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=524711
yes don't buy them keys! its exploitation of the fan base! and why oh why do Star Trek fans have to be total dicks with money "me included". i bet 90% of the fans don't care about the money cus its all about "i NEED TO HAVE THAT" factor, well peeps wen this game fails and it will someday, all that virtual "i NEED TO HAVE THAT" items will be GONE! just saying.
got news for yah that dill transfer thingie players do is not as intended and they will fix that soon..
IMHO that is a weak response. Believe me, I do feel your pain. I have multiple characters and I use the dilithium on each one different. One is used for doing the rep system and getting the gear from it. One earns the dilithium for crafting (Though I do not do too much of it right now). Three I sell the dilithium for Zen and the rest goes to fleet projects. If the mining claims were account bound, then that would make things easier. That said, you claim you would rather do ESTF and PvP. Both of those you can queue for anywhere on the map. You can park outside the mine and queue up. Take a short break between matches to mine then go back to queue for more.
I am also a heavy doffer - and that means a lot of moving around. And the romulan rep thing also keeps me at the other side of the galaxy often. It's just so much moving around for this thing all on 1 toon. Could I use them all? Of course but it will take a year+
This game is becoming less and less ALT friendly by the day. Add to that I play KDF and Fed so there is lots of back and forth. I would like the claims on some of my KDF toons but I got them on the Fed toon. It just such a dumb system to have bound to character.
Like I said 3 layers of restriction is too much - character bound/refine cap/daily CD - it's fine if someone bought 10 keys and got 10 claims - but I am sure there are thousands of players who bought 100+ keys and now have 100+claims on one toon.
When lobi comes on average of 5.5 a box, and with a ship costing 800 lobi, I believe Cryptic does indeed expect you to buy 150+ keys to get a ship and associated equipment.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
And here is the crux of the problem. I would actually spend money to get keys to open boxes if the items and lobi were not character bound.
While it doesn't bother you, someone actually has to go through the process in order to get the item to put it on the exchange. Were lobi not character bound, there would be more lobi store items on the exchange at lower prices - oh, wait, now it does concern you.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
They dont make it any easier to refine the dilithium once you have it and they dont break anything by existing, making these any kind of bound was a mistake.
Joined - 9/2011
"You Best Make Peace With Your Dear & Fluffy Lord" - Malcolm Reynolds
Like with all questionable design decisions, three questions can be asked:
1) What nincompoop proposed it?
2) What was the though process of said nincompoop?
3) What nincompoop approved it?
Although I'm not sure I want to know the answer. As Ambassador G'kar once about every race in the galaxy having a version of swedish meatballs, "I suspect it's one of those great universal mysteries which will either never be explained, or which would drive you mad if you ever learned the truth."
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Here is to hoping that they change these soon to be account bound.
The only major reasoning I could think of, is that they wanted to avoid mass amounts of dilithium flooding the market, especially these first few days the lockbox is out, due to farming alts. I know I would use them on multiple toons to get a ton of quick dil if I had that many.
Unfortunately, if these prizes are so common, all that ends up doing is hurting the majority of players, due to the potential abuse that they are preventing. So we end up with what happened to the OP, and probably others as well.
If it's already causing problems on day one, what's to say it won't continue to be an issue?
So what might be good is to make these account bound, and make it so that an individual account can only do this mission so many times. Like no more than 3 times or so. So you could do it on a couple toons a day, which would let you use them up quickly, but also prevent you from abusing and farming it too much.
Right, because you didn't think. Fair. Next.
No it's because of the other genius decision: making lobi character bound
apparently there is still enough in the game that I got all the time uniforms and ships....sooo someone is buying them. to bad we don't know sellers names on the exchange I would send them a thank you card
My Fed toon not so much, I never use him any more, so opening lockboxes on him and parking him by the moon could work very well for me, use him to farm dilithium and collect lobi, and have a chance to win a ship, sell whatPpppppp I don't want for EC.
Right now I don't use Alts to farm Dilithium because A that would take up too much time and B I prefer Fleet Marks right now, which does not have a daily ceiling.
I really don't use Dilithium at the moment except to trade it in for Fleet Credits.
That may change later.
Still I'm not going to spend any money as I'm boycotting the Dominion Lockboxes because all these lockbox ships mean the death of the Dominion as a playable faction, a horrible idea. I will not support with money anything that removes possible factions from being in in the future, its cutting off your hands to spite your feet.
I will not participate till I know the JHEC, JSA and the JDC does not mean the death to a playable Dominion Faction at a possible future date.
I did it once and never looked back.
(same with the radiation one on New Romulas and the crystal one on Nucarra)
Thank goodness there's really nothing in the Dominion Boxes I need or want.
I won't waste my money on something I might get and absolutely don't want.
Sorry Cryptic, bad decision as far as I'm concerned, you'll get no revenue from me with this particular scheme.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
Funny thing is after a few hours I started to see a lot of fly - bys for Temporal ship/D'kora/Galor
I guess a lot of people pretty quickly decided this box was TRIBBLE.
If I open any more for lobi it won't be the Dominion one as long as these mining claims are bound to character and nor account bound.
Yeah, it would've been nicer to have those account-bound to help refine them, but it was obvious from the beginning they would not be tradable, since they're basically dilithium-in-a-box.
I must admit it is a bit annoying, dilithium is not hard to come by, I currently have 85,005 built up, it's refining it that's the pain, I'm FTP so I never moan to much, but I have bought zen in the past so it's not like I'm a complete freeloader! But anyway, being only able to refine 8000 a day plus the now reduced d'off mission lifers can get at SFA every 20 hours.
What I would have preferred if they insist on having these mining claims is one of the following:
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan
Honestly you'd have been far better off selling the keys for EC and buying the ship outright. It's guaranteed to be sub-50m toward the end of the lock box.
i did the mining once yesterday and got 5000 dilithium out of my first try.
70 x 5000 = 350.000 dilithium
350k dil at the current rate of roughly 90/1 Zen results in ~ 3888 Zen
so i've spend 8000 Zen, and through these claims i will make roughly half of it back
...i guess its a good enough a reason to go there once a day from now on...
but 18000 EC for the direct transwarp from ESD means i am going to fly there which takes time and that means my daily routine is that much longer for the next 3 months... hmmm maybe if i park this char at DS9?
If the (unadvertised) drop rate on mining claims = ~20%, then I can forsee getting 180 claims in the "normal" course of opening Dominion boxes, and I would argue that character-binding this amount of reward to one character is bad, and it should be at least account-bound on pickup as I can see a pressing need to keep these off the exchange.
However, if this is the result of a 10% drop rate, then 180 = 1600+ Lobi, and we're looking at this being a case of "unintended side effects of raw player greed" and any player seeking this much lobi really should be spreading it around to different characters - heck, if this is part of a "one Jemmy-dread (JH-DN) for main, one JH-DN for the exchange" operation, then the lobi should have been spread out over 2 characters...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
This is my opinion, there are (not) many like it, but this one is mine.