Now all that remains is for Cryptic to give the Galaxy R an ensign universal, create the JJ Abrams Enterprise at T5 once Star Wars 7 debuts, and add a mirror Odyssey Dreadnaught Cruiser with Three Necks and Four Nacelles.
The saucer separation maneuver removing the most powerful weapons system from the stardrive section makes little sense, unless the saucer can fire the phasers at full power on its own.
It kinda makes sense if your lifeboat, meant to protect the families of the crew, has the biggest, ammo free weapons system on it. And it also justifies flying it into battle during best of both worlds being considered at all as a tactic .
Also, the shields onthe stardrive section would atleast triple because of reduced coverage area. The improved speed and manuverability would allow it to better employ both torpedo launchers against multiple targets. (Torpedoes now being its heaviest weapon system remaining in cannon).
need to double check but i think the impulse reactors can operate all the systems on the saucer when separated and can shut down unneeded systems (the main promenade and civilian rec areas, holodecks)
if your just focused on combat systems would not be a huge power drain
This is something that always bothered me about saucer separation. They always phrase it as the saucer moving to safety while the drive section goes into battle carrying the ship's main armaments. The problem is, according to everything I've ever understood about the strip style phasers, the saucer flew off with the ship's main armaments. Unless they're talking about the torpedo launchers, which were on the drive section, but in any given fight the Galaxy always favors those saucer phaser arrays over anything.
saucer sep wasn't very well thought out, but then again it was envisioned back when campy tos was the only trek content. it was almost never used tactically, there was no reason too, and its not like the saucer could get away from anything at sublight. it being used as a life boat if the star drive section ever became doomed was pretty much the only good reason for it, much more comfortable then an escape pod.
worf line about it becoming formidable when separated, i sort of think he means in a klingon sense. it would be very much like a klingon attack cruiser, small, and fast. unseparated its a big gun battleship.
I understand why they separate. My issue is with them saying the drive section has the ship's main armaments when it doesn't. Unless that phaser strip on the cobra head is some kind of uber phaser strip that achieves higher output with fewer emitters.
id rate a separated galaxy as about comparable with an ambassador class tactically, which is still pretty strong.
Sovereign vs Galaxy. Tough one to call. I'd say Sovereign just pinches in the majority of fights.
Possible higher shield grid coupled with regenerative shields not yet implemented on the Galaxy
More torpedo tubes and spat them out pretty fast in Nemesis.
Better Manoeuvrability
Her Phasers seemed to fire more rapidly than what we saw for the majority of the Galaxies screen time. (However this doesn't mean they maybe more powerful)
only when you compare a launch 2363 galaxy with a nemisis sovereign does the sovereign stand any sort of chance. by 2379 though, you can be sure there wasn't anything the sovereign had that the galaxys weren't also getting upgraded and built with. in BOBW it was fireing what looked like full array discharges extreamly rapidly, rotating frequencies to try to damage that tractor beam on them
need to double check but i think the impulse reactors can operate all the systems on the saucer when separated and can shut down unneeded systems (the main promenade and civilian rec areas, holodecks)
if your just focused on combat systems would not be a huge power drain
the sovereign fought the scimitar with its warp core off line, it was running only on its impulse and any other auxiliary reactors. they were enough to let the ship move at full combat speed, rapidly fire the weapons, and keep the shields up. but, from the looks of it they totally burned through all their deuterium and completely ran out of gas around the time the bridge suffered a hull breach. much less efficient way of making power then a M/AM reaction.
the galaxy saucer can proboly operate tacticly pretty well, for full array discharges it will proboly take longer to recharge all 200 emmiters though. over all not exactly superior at all compared to just keeping the ship intact.
warbirds with their rom captain and rom and reman boffs with their steath bonuses are the only ones ive see that can really use that console well. many times ive detected the user of that console just by flying within 5 range of him.
Beeing a non-native english speaker, I have a question:
Is Dreadnought realted to naughty?
based on how some players describe the lance, it is
As another non-native English speaker, I've come to understand that on this forum at least 'dreadnought' means totally badass, while everything that is not 'dread' automatically means it's lame.
As another non-native English speaker, I've come to understand that on this forum at least 'dreadnought' means totally badass, while everything that is not 'dread' automatically means it's lame.
No, the opposite actually. :P
But if you are looking for a more serious answer, see edalgo's post - I'm just joking around because of the missconceptions many people on this forum have regarding this.
No, the opposite actually. :P
But if you are looking for a more serious answer, see edalgo's post - I'm just joking around because of the missconceptions many people on this forum have regarding this.
Dreadnought implies battleship. Something that Cryptic conveniently overlooks.
The name was for the HMS Dreadnought which was the first "all steel" "big gun" Battleship of the 20th century made by the British. Her revolutionary design made every warship before her obsolete and spur an arms race in which bigger, more heavily armed and armored battleships would be built through WWII. She wasn't involved during the Battle of Jutland in WWI as she was undergoing a refit.
So when you hear Dreadnought it is synonymous with BATTLESHIP.
except, once again, people seem to love ignoring the word CRUISER that appears next to Dreadnaught in the description of the Gal-X.
Also I wanted to take a moment to have some fun and toot my own horn. Awhile back I mentioned that the Wiki and some of the in-game text defined the Odyssey as a Dreadnought as well.
I went so far as to say that the Federation have three dreadnaughts, the Galaxy X, the Jupiter and the Odyssey. I even pointed out the 3-pack bundle correlation between the other two factions' "flagships" slash "dreadnoughts."
Now quite a few people who were still clinging to the Galaxy X's supposed mystique and pushing for it to be the Fed Scimitar (and thus loudly wailing and gnashing forum teeth when the Galaxy X improvements didn't make this happen) tried their best to shoot me down.
So here we are today ... where the Mirror Universe Invasion exists. And in it, I swear, every odd time I do it, the cut scene announces a mirror dreadnought is emerging ... and it's an Odyssey!
except, once again, people seem to love ignoring the word CRUISER that appears next to Dreadnaught in the description of the Gal-X.
And people seem to love ignoring the word DREADNOUGHT in the description of the Galaxy-X. so by definition the Galaxy-X Dreadnought Cruiser should be a Battlecruiser as she's not classed a Dreadnought or a Cruiser.
But with the boff setup she has, she actually is neither.
So here we are today ... where the Mirror Universe Invasion exists. And in it, I swear, every odd time I do it, the cut scene announces a mirror dreadnought is emerging ... and it's an Odyssey!
Meh.....nothing suprising or new. Cryptic are all over the place as usual, particulary when it comes to NPC designations.
Meh.....nothing suprising or new. Cryptic are all over the place as usual, particulary when it comes to NPC designations.
This. The whole "dreadnaught" thing starts to annoy me. It's a stupid designation. Dreadnaught and Battleship are synonyms, no matter hoe "awesome" th one or the other might sound. Dreadnaughts were never mentioned in-canon but one single time: The comm line at the beginning of the motion picture - in later releases, that line was hushed on purpose since Rodenberry wanted it gone. So even if we treat the Federation Class as canon (which we can since it appears on a Okudagram if I'm not mistaken) the designation had to go, basically.
The Mirror Universe Oddyssey makes sense to me, though. It's just logical to assume that the biggest vessel in the Terran Navy is a battleship. But WE are supposed to be Starfleet, not the Terran Navy. And even though we are in a alternate timeline, WE don't have battleships (as in: slapping a bazillion tac consoles and boffs on a ship). So stop it already.
And the Galaxy refit in AGT is the same friggin ship as the regular Galaxy, with the addition of a warp nacelle (which I headcanon to make warp flight more stable, thus it is able to reach the destination a bit earlier since acceleration is faster or something. A necelle does nothing but to DRAIN enrgy, actually.) and a long-rage particle beam. It's still the same class of ship, really. An Explorer.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I like that idea, the Dread should be the Federation's answer to the Scimitar. In these times of war it would make sense to refit the Galaxy in such a way, in fact in another timeline Riker did exactly that although to be fair we have no idea what other ships were also available in that timeline, we know Riker refitted the old D because he wanted to keep her flying. However, why shouldn't we have a Dread that's the equivalent of the Scimitar we are at war, it's time for a warship to end all warships for the Feds. We have the largest resources and have technology from over 150 worlds to call from as well as our Romulan allies, the Federation would obviously have seen what the Romulans have knocked up copying Shinzon's design of 25 years earlier, I am sure they could do better.(...)
The "It's war and everything's grimdark" argument is invalid. The UFP was pretty much at war all-the-time, even through TNG. And all of those wars against Klingons, Romulans, Dominion etc. did not change ship designations or designs. We don't need a battlewarshipofdreaddoom. Because every Starfleet ship is already fitted with the latest weaponry and in STO, the Oddyssey Star Cruiser is a humongous beast of a ship which should easily rival the mary-sue Scimitar (which isn't all that impressive to begin with. About half the size of that thing are because of those nonsensical wings, the Oddy has more space and makes use of it, probably even the Galaxy has), hell the Star Cruiser already did that but Cryptic shot themselves in the foot because they decided later on that they don't want it anymore. It's just not called "doombringer", but you can headcanon that if you like. Starfleet's heaviest vessels are Explorers. Those are heavily armed and are eye-to-eye with other species military battleships. Let Starfleet be Starfleet and not the united states space navy.
Game mechanics are another thing. The smallest cannon fodder frigate ship in-canon can field the heaviest weapons and sports ten times the damage potential of large cruisers - STO is broken beyond repair, I won't argue with that. But that doesn't change that the whole "In the far future of 2409, there is only war..." is nonsense if we want to stick at least a little bit to the IP.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
We saw that the Federation developed the Sovereign class in a short time to combat the Borg threat, (...)
No we didn't. The Sovereign has nothing to do with the Borg. I don't know how often we went through this, in this thread alone...
(...)if we then factor in the other incursions into the timeline of the Undine, more powerful Borg, and the Voth coupled with the war with the Klingons which was not present in the last TNG movie, we can extrapolate forward and see that the Federation would indeed have become a military organisation with more and more deadlier starships. In "Yesterday's Enterprise" we got a taste of this, the Enterprise D still under command of Picard had been built as a warship because at that time the Federation and the Klingons had been at war for many years with billions of lives lost.
It's what happened in one quantum reality. In another reality, the Federation was destroyed by the Borg (note: destroyed, not assimilated. Because that stupid assimilation theme came after TNG. Just mentioning this because it's a personal urge ) and in another Worf became regent of a Klingon affiliated kingdom. Yet all those futures were averted/corrected/collapsed. I don't think we need to ride the wave of fear and militarism, Starfleet and the UFP did well without it, it doesn't matter how many threats the game throws at us.
So by now, 2409, there are far more threats to the Federation than in the early TNG episodes, it is already canon that in a war time scenario the Federation became a military organisation developing warships under those circumstances. Why would they not do that in any other timeline including the STO timeline?
No, it's time to either end all the wars and incursions and change STO to a game of diplomacy, border skirmishes and exploration or stick with the current theme and militarise Star Fleet with the necessary arsenal of ships and weapons such a change would demand.
The federation never developed warships. The Defiant is the only ship with that purpose, a prototype to combat the Borg. The Borg are nobody you wage a war on. It's a force of nature, so to speak. You can't fight a leader- and homeless hive mind. That's the whole point of the Borg to the time DS9 took place (still, pre FC/VOY mess-up). The only other tactically fucosed ship was the Prometheus, again a prototype which probably didn't pass QA just like the Defiant class prototype was a failure. I'll admit that by the end of the dominion war, they probably cranked out more Defiants to fill the gaps of ship's lost, but I don't see why that means that suddenly large warships have to be build when the existing ships already absorb that function in their mission profile.
Starfleet doesn't need the heroic militarisation nonsense. A "Explorer" is just as potent and probably more heavily armed than a Klingon warship. Some people have an "image problem" with that, I know that
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I like that idea, the Dread should be the Federation's answer to the Scimitar. In these times of war it would make sense to refit the Galaxy in such a way, in fact in another timeline Riker did exactly that although to be fair we have no idea what other ships were also available in that timeline, we know Riker refitted the old D because he wanted to keep her flying. However, why shouldn't we have a Dread that's the equivalent of the Scimitar we are at war, it's time for a warship to end all warships for the Feds. We have the largest resources and have technology from over 150 worlds to call from as well as our Romulan allies, the Federation would obviously have seen what the Romulans have knocked up copying Shinzon's design of 25 years earlier, I am sure they could do better.
Ah yes, but Cryptic needs the Romulan faction to be OP, so they can sell and make $$$. Forget about how shallow that seems to sound, and wrong game design it is - it's the truth. They have very little to no clue about game balance and frankly don't seem to care at all.
The Scimitar was meant to be OP from the get go, I mean just look at it. No Fed or KDF ship will come near it. The only way the Scimitar could be taken down from the throne of OP-ness is if they release for ex. a Cardassian faction and decide again that they're too afraid to risk the $$$ with silly things like game balance, so they release an Uber-Keldon 3-pack that can detect cloaked ships at all time and has set-bonuses to "freeze" them while they're cloaked and knock down the Scimitar's secondarly shields. Because it would need to be more OP that the most OP untill then, obviously.
The "It's war and everything's grimdark" argument is invalid. The UFP was pretty much at war all-the-time, even through TNG. And all of those wars against Klingons, Romulans, Dominion etc. did not change ship designations or designs. We don't need a battlewarshipofdreaddoom. Because every Starfleet ship is already fitted with the latest weaponry and in STO, the Oddyssey Star Cruiser is a humongous beast of a ship which should easily rival the mary-sue Scimitar (which isn't all that impressive to begin with. About half the size of that thing are because of those nonsensical wings, the Oddy has more space and makes use of it, probably even the Galaxy has), hell the Star Cruiser already did that but Cryptic shot themselves in the foot because they decided later on that they don't want it anymore. It's just not called "doombringer", but you can headcanon that if you like. Starfleet's heaviest vessels are Explorers. Those are heavily armed and are eye-to-eye with other species military battleships. Let Starfleet be Starfleet and not the united states space navy.
Game mechanics are another thing. The smallest cannon fodder frigate ship in-canon can field the heaviest weapons and sports ten times the damage potential of large cruisers - STO is broken beyond repair, I won't argue with that. But that doesn't change that the whole "In the far future of 2409, there is only war..." is nonsense if we want to stick at least a little bit to the IP.
I completely agree, nothing to add, nothing to take out.
We saw that the Federation developed the Sovereign class in a short time to combat the Borg threat, if we then factor in the other incursions into the timeline of the Undine, more powerful Borg, and the Voth coupled with the war with the Klingons which was not present in the last TNG movie, we can extrapolate forward and see that the Federation would indeed have become a military organisation with more and more deadlier starships. In "Yesterday's Enterprise" we got a taste of this, the Enterprise D still under command of Picard had been built as a warship because at that time the Federation and the Klingons had been at war for many years with billions of lives lost.
So by now, 2409, there are far more threats to the Federation than in the early TNG episodes, it is already canon that in a war time scenario the Federation became a military organisation developing warships under those circumstances. Why would they not do that in any other timeline including the STO timeline?
No, it's time to either end all the wars and incursions and change STO to a game of diplomacy, border skirmishes and exploration or stick with the current theme and militarise Star Fleet with the necessary arsenal of ships and weapons such a change would demand.
See, this makes very litle sense to me.
First of all, the Sovereign wasn't designed to fight the Borg - that was never said. The Sovereign had other roles to fill when it was on the drawing board. I have serious doubts that a Sovereign would be the Federation's answer to Borg.
The ship they designed with the Borg in mind was the Defiant. Which makes much more sense when you observe it from a Starfleet perspective - they wan't to limit the loss of lives as much as they can and they will not fight an all out offensive war against the Borg.
Hence, the Defiant. It's small with limited crew, it packs a punch specifically designed to mess up the Borg (those pulse cannons were designed with the specific intention for each pair of pulses to change frequency, so the Borg would have serious trouble adapting), it's small - thus cheap, fast and easy to produce in mass quantities, it's no long-range starship but it doesn't need to be - they're suposed to be on the defensive perimeter, so when a Borg incursion occurs they swarm the Borg with a lot of small yet powerfull Defiants carrying a weapon the Borg have trouble adapting to and save the day.
In 'Yesterday's Enterprise' we saw nothing different than the standard Galaxy Class. The only difference is that Picard was more resolute to fight. It was the same ship, with same armaments and offensive potential, the same ship that blew holes the size of it's saucer section in Borg cubes.
The phaser array in the existing canon is considered the apex of Starfleet's offensive weaponry and amongst the most potent and advanced offensive weapons in the Quadrant. By the time of TNG, every starship that was built had phaser arrays except from smaller ones like the Defiant that carries other type of offensive weaponry, yet still has beam banks.
So every ship of the line Starfleet produced was equiped with the most advanced and deadly offensive weapon they could invent, starting with the Galaxy Class that has the largest pair of phaser arrays. They didn't need to call them 'battleships' or 'dreadnoughts' in order for the galaxy to be in awe of the Federation's power. That's not their style. Being peacefull doesn't automatically make you a chump.
Starfleet always had the potential to wage a war against anyone - all of their ships are fully fit for war. The only difference is that the Federation is peacefull and they use those ships in another primary role and they don't need to call them 'dread ships of doom' because they don't want to instigate negative feelings amongst alien species they encounter.
And also, yeah, the Federation would never turn into a military organization like you're saying, unless you're speaking about Crypticverse. That topic has been present in quite a few ST episodes and the idea always fell flat on it's face, with Starfleet/Federation values and ideals always prevailing.
TASHA
(re: the new Enterprise)
She was the first Galaxy Class warship built by the Federation...
forty-two decks... capable of
transporting over six thousand
troops...
Yeah, and Picard is recording a military log with a combat date.
I mean, you do realize what the premise of that episode is, right?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
The Sovereign was designed to fight the borg. It was under development during BOBW and would be ludicrous if Starfleets new weapons systems under development, as Cmdr Shelbey stated, we're not incorporated into the Sovereign design. Was it's primary mission to solely fight the Borg? No its a multi mission heavy cruiser / explorer but if you think it's systems were developed without the borg threat in mind well that's just preposterous.
Every starship in Starfleet is scheduled for regular retro- und refits. Each of those incorporate to bring the ship's systems in-line with current levels of technology. The Sovereign got new phasers, each Galaxy that recieves it's retro/refit get those, each excelsior get those as well as each Miranda they decide to use. Were all those ships designed to fight the Borg? (If we go by ENT screwed up retcon orgy, it might make sense... hmmm...)
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Comments
Sweet!
Now all that remains is for Cryptic to give the Galaxy R an ensign universal, create the JJ Abrams Enterprise at T5 once Star Wars 7 debuts, and add a mirror Odyssey Dreadnaught Cruiser with Three Necks and Four Nacelles.
Oooooooh. Like a Multi Vector Dreadnaughsome Mode!
need to double check but i think the impulse reactors can operate all the systems on the saucer when separated and can shut down unneeded systems (the main promenade and civilian rec areas, holodecks)
if your just focused on combat systems would not be a huge power drain
saucer sep wasn't very well thought out, but then again it was envisioned back when campy tos was the only trek content. it was almost never used tactically, there was no reason too, and its not like the saucer could get away from anything at sublight. it being used as a life boat if the star drive section ever became doomed was pretty much the only good reason for it, much more comfortable then an escape pod.
worf line about it becoming formidable when separated, i sort of think he means in a klingon sense. it would be very much like a klingon attack cruiser, small, and fast. unseparated its a big gun battleship.
id rate a separated galaxy as about comparable with an ambassador class tactically, which is still pretty strong.
only when you compare a launch 2363 galaxy with a nemisis sovereign does the sovereign stand any sort of chance. by 2379 though, you can be sure there wasn't anything the sovereign had that the galaxys weren't also getting upgraded and built with. in BOBW it was fireing what looked like full array discharges extreamly rapidly, rotating frequencies to try to damage that tractor beam on them
the sovereign fought the scimitar with its warp core off line, it was running only on its impulse and any other auxiliary reactors. they were enough to let the ship move at full combat speed, rapidly fire the weapons, and keep the shields up. but, from the looks of it they totally burned through all their deuterium and completely ran out of gas around the time the bridge suffered a hull breach. much less efficient way of making power then a M/AM reaction.
the galaxy saucer can proboly operate tacticly pretty well, for full array discharges it will proboly take longer to recharge all 200 emmiters though. over all not exactly superior at all compared to just keeping the ship intact.
warbirds with their rom captain and rom and reman boffs with their steath bonuses are the only ones ive see that can really use that console well. many times ive detected the user of that console just by flying within 5 range of him.
Is Dreadnought realted to naughty?
based on how some players describe the lance, it is
As another non-native English speaker, I've come to understand that on this forum at least 'dreadnought' means totally badass, while everything that is not 'dread' automatically means it's lame.
beeing naughty is lame?
hell, we're not in England..
No, the opposite actually. :P
But if you are looking for a more serious answer, see edalgo's post - I'm just joking around because of the missconceptions many people on this forum have regarding this.
I've never been much serious in any of my posts
except, once again, people seem to love ignoring the word CRUISER that appears next to Dreadnaught in the description of the Gal-X.
Lie back and think of Beam Fire At Will?
I went so far as to say that the Federation have three dreadnaughts, the Galaxy X, the Jupiter and the Odyssey. I even pointed out the 3-pack bundle correlation between the other two factions' "flagships" slash "dreadnoughts."
Now quite a few people who were still clinging to the Galaxy X's supposed mystique and pushing for it to be the Fed Scimitar (and thus loudly wailing and gnashing forum teeth when the Galaxy X improvements didn't make this happen) tried their best to shoot me down.
So here we are today ... where the Mirror Universe Invasion exists. And in it, I swear, every odd time I do it, the cut scene announces a mirror dreadnought is emerging ... and it's an Odyssey!
Carry on.
And people seem to love ignoring the word DREADNOUGHT in the description of the Galaxy-X. so by definition the Galaxy-X Dreadnought Cruiser should be a Battlecruiser as she's not classed a Dreadnought or a Cruiser.
But with the boff setup she has, she actually is neither.
Meh.....nothing suprising or new. Cryptic are all over the place as usual, particulary when it comes to NPC designations.
That's arbitrary. And not in line with the layout direction of the development team over the years. So pretty much a dead horse.
You give me my "neener neener neener" moment dammit!
This. The whole "dreadnaught" thing starts to annoy me. It's a stupid designation. Dreadnaught and Battleship are synonyms, no matter hoe "awesome" th one or the other might sound. Dreadnaughts were never mentioned in-canon but one single time: The comm line at the beginning of the motion picture - in later releases, that line was hushed on purpose since Rodenberry wanted it gone. So even if we treat the Federation Class as canon (which we can since it appears on a Okudagram if I'm not mistaken) the designation had to go, basically.
The Mirror Universe Oddyssey makes sense to me, though. It's just logical to assume that the biggest vessel in the Terran Navy is a battleship. But WE are supposed to be Starfleet, not the Terran Navy. And even though we are in a alternate timeline, WE don't have battleships (as in: slapping a bazillion tac consoles and boffs on a ship). So stop it already.
And the Galaxy refit in AGT is the same friggin ship as the regular Galaxy, with the addition of a warp nacelle (which I headcanon to make warp flight more stable, thus it is able to reach the destination a bit earlier since acceleration is faster or something. A necelle does nothing but to DRAIN enrgy, actually.) and a long-rage particle beam. It's still the same class of ship, really. An Explorer.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The "It's war and everything's grimdark" argument is invalid. The UFP was pretty much at war all-the-time, even through TNG. And all of those wars against Klingons, Romulans, Dominion etc. did not change ship designations or designs. We don't need a battlewarshipofdreaddoom. Because every Starfleet ship is already fitted with the latest weaponry and in STO, the Oddyssey Star Cruiser is a humongous beast of a ship which should easily rival the mary-sue Scimitar (which isn't all that impressive to begin with. About half the size of that thing are because of those nonsensical wings, the Oddy has more space and makes use of it, probably even the Galaxy has), hell the Star Cruiser already did that but Cryptic shot themselves in the foot because they decided later on that they don't want it anymore. It's just not called "doombringer", but you can headcanon that if you like. Starfleet's heaviest vessels are Explorers. Those are heavily armed and are eye-to-eye with other species military battleships. Let Starfleet be Starfleet and not the united states space navy.
Game mechanics are another thing. The smallest cannon fodder frigate ship in-canon can field the heaviest weapons and sports ten times the damage potential of large cruisers - STO is broken beyond repair, I won't argue with that. But that doesn't change that the whole "In the far future of 2409, there is only war..." is nonsense if we want to stick at least a little bit to the IP.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
No we didn't. The Sovereign has nothing to do with the Borg. I don't know how often we went through this, in this thread alone...
It's what happened in one quantum reality. In another reality, the Federation was destroyed by the Borg (note: destroyed, not assimilated. Because that stupid assimilation theme came after TNG. Just mentioning this because it's a personal urge
The federation never developed warships. The Defiant is the only ship with that purpose, a prototype to combat the Borg. The Borg are nobody you wage a war on. It's a force of nature, so to speak. You can't fight a leader- and homeless hive mind. That's the whole point of the Borg to the time DS9 took place (still, pre FC/VOY mess-up). The only other tactically fucosed ship was the Prometheus, again a prototype which probably didn't pass QA just like the Defiant class prototype was a failure. I'll admit that by the end of the dominion war, they probably cranked out more Defiants to fill the gaps of ship's lost, but I don't see why that means that suddenly large warships have to be build when the existing ships already absorb that function in their mission profile.
Starfleet doesn't need the heroic militarisation nonsense. A "Explorer" is just as potent and probably more heavily armed than a Klingon warship. Some people have an "image problem" with that, I know that
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Ah yes, but Cryptic needs the Romulan faction to be OP, so they can sell and make $$$. Forget about how shallow that seems to sound, and wrong game design it is - it's the truth. They have very little to no clue about game balance and frankly don't seem to care at all.
The Scimitar was meant to be OP from the get go, I mean just look at it. No Fed or KDF ship will come near it. The only way the Scimitar could be taken down from the throne of OP-ness is if they release for ex. a Cardassian faction and decide again that they're too afraid to risk the $$$ with silly things like game balance, so they release an Uber-Keldon 3-pack that can detect cloaked ships at all time and has set-bonuses to "freeze" them while they're cloaked and knock down the Scimitar's secondarly shields. Because it would need to be more OP that the most OP untill then, obviously.
I completely agree, nothing to add, nothing to take out.
See, this makes very litle sense to me.
First of all, the Sovereign wasn't designed to fight the Borg - that was never said. The Sovereign had other roles to fill when it was on the drawing board. I have serious doubts that a Sovereign would be the Federation's answer to Borg.
The ship they designed with the Borg in mind was the Defiant. Which makes much more sense when you observe it from a Starfleet perspective - they wan't to limit the loss of lives as much as they can and they will not fight an all out offensive war against the Borg.
Hence, the Defiant. It's small with limited crew, it packs a punch specifically designed to mess up the Borg (those pulse cannons were designed with the specific intention for each pair of pulses to change frequency, so the Borg would have serious trouble adapting), it's small - thus cheap, fast and easy to produce in mass quantities, it's no long-range starship but it doesn't need to be - they're suposed to be on the defensive perimeter, so when a Borg incursion occurs they swarm the Borg with a lot of small yet powerfull Defiants carrying a weapon the Borg have trouble adapting to and save the day.
In 'Yesterday's Enterprise' we saw nothing different than the standard Galaxy Class. The only difference is that Picard was more resolute to fight. It was the same ship, with same armaments and offensive potential, the same ship that blew holes the size of it's saucer section in Borg cubes.
The phaser array in the existing canon is considered the apex of Starfleet's offensive weaponry and amongst the most potent and advanced offensive weapons in the Quadrant. By the time of TNG, every starship that was built had phaser arrays except from smaller ones like the Defiant that carries other type of offensive weaponry, yet still has beam banks.
So every ship of the line Starfleet produced was equiped with the most advanced and deadly offensive weapon they could invent, starting with the Galaxy Class that has the largest pair of phaser arrays. They didn't need to call them 'battleships' or 'dreadnoughts' in order for the galaxy to be in awe of the Federation's power. That's not their style. Being peacefull doesn't automatically make you a chump.
Starfleet always had the potential to wage a war against anyone - all of their ships are fully fit for war. The only difference is that the Federation is peacefull and they use those ships in another primary role and they don't need to call them 'dread ships of doom' because they don't want to instigate negative feelings amongst alien species they encounter.
And also, yeah, the Federation would never turn into a military organization like you're saying, unless you're speaking about Crypticverse. That topic has been present in quite a few ST episodes and the idea always fell flat on it's face, with Starfleet/Federation values and ideals always prevailing.
Yeah, and Picard is recording a military log with a combat date.
I mean, you do realize what the premise of that episode is, right?
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Every starship in Starfleet is scheduled for regular retro- und refits. Each of those incorporate to bring the ship's systems in-line with current levels of technology. The Sovereign got new phasers, each Galaxy that recieves it's retro/refit get those, each excelsior get those as well as each Miranda they decide to use. Were all those ships designed to fight the Borg? (If we go by ENT screwed up retcon orgy, it might make sense... hmmm...)
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