the nebula is pretty nice actually, might be the talkiest sci ship. the fleet research has the vulcan ship's station setup, that's a station setup the vesta or wells cant duplicate, at least it has a reason to exist.
It would still be a nice move to have a galaxy variant with and eng/sci reversed nebula layout. That's what I suggested way back before the separation transformation and all that came into account.
It's the same ship family and they share quite a lot of design elements and mission profiles. CMDR Eng, LTC Sci, Lt Tac, Lt Uni and ENS Eng would be a nice choice and make sense for the console layout the ship has.
I mean why does the Gal have 3 science consoles in the first place when it only has two science abilities? It just makes no sense. It doesn't make sense either to disregard anything without LTC tac and LTC sci to be a useless ship. But a Explorer with inversed Nebula layout and sensor analysis would be quite a sight to behold
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
But, but, but...I want them to give the GX a LTC Tac seat so I can run an Attack Pattern AND a Cannon skill!!
Ideas for making the Galaxy-R more viable in it's current state!
Give a passive where the more Engineering consoles you have equipped, the more +Something you get. Only apply it to Cruisers and Battle Cruisers.
Make a Cmd level Engineering skill only trainable by Engineering Captains that does something super-duper awesome for every Engineering power you have.
Create more Ensign level Engineering powers that don't overlap and have decent effects. I mean, look at all of the Ensign level Sci powers that don't overlap.
the R. the X was fine, now its really fine. its always been about the R
Yes, I agree with you about the X. I would agree with you a couple of seasons back about the R. The R's quality is subjective on the player especially now that there are more tools in Season 9 to help R overcome those disadvantages.
The R was never meant to out dps any tac heavy ship nor be as flexible as odyssey nor have too many Sci stuff. I have accepted that fact. I never forced to play the ship not the way it should be played. Forcing it to be played like an assault cruiser, avenger, fleet carrier or an escort and used to fast paced/high dps will really be disappointed with Gal R just like how disappointed I was a couple of seasons ago. So, I adapted and improved instead of complaining.
Regardless, in its present state with all tools/experiences taken from Season 9 and earlier, Fleet Galaxy R can do at 10k dps on ISE at PUGs and at the same time still have a total hp shield and hull at 100k at 60% allres on the right build played the right way which will aggro an average of 80% of total damage of the all mobs to your whole group per mission.
So, I suggest players to go back to drawing board with regards to this ship as certain changes in Season 9 helped the Fleet Galaxy R.
So, is this only for hashing out the Galaxy-R or does the Galaxy-X count as well?
Serious question.
no, galaxy x count as well, at least for me.
sorry, this hangar don't make it "fine", it just make it a little better.
we are still talking about a 6base/25 inertia lt tact ship.
and the spinal lance is still TRIBBLE.
but i mostly speak for pvp, for pve the hangar is a good power addition on the long term.
would love that they remove that hangar and give it a lt commander tact instead, wich will give it more reliable firepower and more versatility and less cliky.
but keep in mind we are just talking here, nothing we proposed or suggest will ever be implemented by cryptic concerning these 2 ships.
sorry, it is just to not keep your hope up that this will eventually come to any changes.
But, but, but...I want them to give the GX a LTC Tac seat so I can run an Attack Pattern AND a Cannon skill!!
Ideas for making the Galaxy-R more viable in it's current state!
Give a passive where the more Engineering consoles you have equipped, the more +Something you get. Only apply it to Cruisers and Battle Cruisers.
Make a Cmd level Engineering skill only trainable by Engineering Captains that does something super-duper awesome for every Engineering power you have.
Create more Ensign level Engineering powers that don't overlap and have decent effects. I mean, look at all of the Ensign level Sci powers that don't overlap.
The thread started as a complaint about the Galaxy-R being lackluster, but then naturally acompanied the Galaxy-X as well through time. Now after the "reboot" the Galaxy-R is the main foucs, although there are still complaints about the Galaxy-X mainly because of the Boff seating and the stupid slapping of the hangar instead of doing something more in line with the class.
Anyway, noone can deny that in their current state, the Galaxy-X is lightyears away from the Galaxy-R in terms of in-game usefulness.
The ideas for imporvement you gave here are solid and similar things have been discussed already. The real question though is - how do you implement such improvements so the Galaxy-R could have the most benefit, so it's brought up closer to the rest of the cruisers - without those improvements benefiting the other cruisers even more. Because if this happens, the Galaxy-R will still be the worst at the end of the day. An example of this is the shared team abilities cooldowns - when they took out the shared cooldowns, that benefited the Galaxy-R, but ironically - that benefited the Excelsior for ex. 50 times more.
I'm using the Galaxy-R. In time, with much much grinding and investment, fine-tuning, learning all the tips and tricks and hours upon hours of practice I managed to make a respectfull Galaxy-R. It can carry any pug and does a solid amount of DPS, even good amount when I'm having a good day. What saddens me is that when I take the Excelsior straight out of the shipyard, I get better preformance in any conceivable way - without all the effort to make it work that I mentioned.
Personally, I'd be fine with the Galaxy-R's current console and Boff setup if they implement changes to engineering skills like the ones you've mentioned and bring back the role of a tanking cruiser in STO. But, I'm afraid that ship sailed a long time ago, I look at my new Tempest and that thing can tank any elite content, and it's an escort. And there are people that'll tell you that the trinity is the wrong way to go, which they're probably right about.
Besides ddis's proposal for the Galaxy ships to swap Boff stations on separation that came after we found out about the DSDs and the ability for Cryptic to do that, which is a very good proposal and could solve the Galaxy complaints forever - I personally also fancied giving the Galaxy-R the Boff station setup of the D'Deridex, sligthly altered by having the ens.station an engineering one and keeping the current console setup. It would prevent the ship being a good A2B FOTM platform, but it would be a more genuine representation of the ship - jack of all trades, master of none and would definitely make it much more usefull that it currently is.
i want you to find a bo layout worst than the galaxy retrofit.
just one rule, it must be eng heavie.
the objective are:
having less firepower than the galaxy if possible
having less tanking capacitie than the galaxy if possible
having less cc science capacitie than the galaxy if possible
if just one of these 3 objective is succed while having the 2 other as bad as they were before we will have a winner!
you get the story, the objectiv is to have a ship less efficient than the galaxy retrofit, just like the galaxy is less efficient than a star cruiser.
on your mark!! GO! XD
Well, I still maintain that the Intrepid is the worst ship in the game. It can out sci a Gal-R... but that's about it.
Doesn't really matter, as even the worst ships in the game play fine in PvE, and PvP is so god-awful right now I don't even consider it (Even tho it is what I spend most of my time doing nowadays)
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
My main thought is you can't really help out some of these lower end ships without changing how the game functions right now. With diminishing returns on our defenses and the fact that there really isn't that huge of a difference in defenses between a cruiser, science vessel, and an escort. Most of the things that destroy me in a Science vessel or an escort do the same if i'm hit in a cruiser. Engineer consoles and science consoles are rarely used for their own consoles and are mostly seen as good places for Universals where as most everyone I've seen uses tac console slots for their tac consoles. These are the things that need fixed to help out the Galaxy and others. When it comes down to it most will choose to concentrate on dealing damage rather then taking it cause frankly its at this point more practical to do so. Survival difference between these classes of ships needs to be much more dramatic to cause ppl to want to play tank roles or science roles rather then picking the Dps type ships with the higher tac slots and tac boffs.
I have made builds for the Galaxy along with other cruisers that can tank a Tac cube for as long as it takes for others to blow it up. But with this same build I do slow damage barely scratching it compared to my builds with Sovereigns and the new Avenger or my Defiant. What they lack in staying power with my Dps builds they make up for in the fact that I may die once or twice but I also knock out a good chuck of their hull.
Only way I can see making Pve interesting or well a challenge for higher gear players in a way that makes ships like the Galaxy, Star cruiser, Intrepid, and other ships lacking in Tactical options and well Dps is gonna really throw pvp into turmoil.
Only other option is simply making all ships customizable in their boff and console slots and power distribution so that we can pick our ship skin and build it up how we want. Sadly this won't fix the game it just make less desirable ships into ships that can go toe to toe in the Dps game we have now.
I'm not one that likes the whole Tank healer support dps roles in games but its either go back to just that or make all ships able to be built in ways that more perform in the way this game is going as of now.
I think the Intrepid is a fine ship and with the right setup can out damage the Galaxy outright with GWs , TBRs, FAW, Energy Siphon, FBP, Photonic officer, etc...
And with its Armor console has a get out of jail free card up its sleeve.
You would be surprised, then.
The extra weapon slots, DEM, EPTW, A2B and EWP can outdamage what an intrepid can put out. Plus, the Gal is many times more resilient.
What it comes down to, quite simply, is cruiser > sci ship, so primal cruiser > primal sci ship.
I do concede, the margin is small, and both ships turn up near the bottom. People over value science and undervalue engineering, I think because science is flashy where engineering is consistent.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Perhaps the cookie cutter sci builds yes but I'm talking about all out dps build that has almost no Boff tanking abilities. Just relying on damage + 3 piece borg set to kill before being killed.
Granted overall majority won't take that approach to ship building so in most part you are right.
But my point is that the potential if built right is higher on the Intrepid than the Galaxy.
I do more DPS then any sci I have ever seen. I use builds that exemplify exactly what you are describing.
The Intrepid is not good.
The only thing that keeps it from having a thread this long is people go "Grav wellllssssss!" and don't notice how under performing the ship is.
Quite simply put, everything that can be said about the Gal-R can be said for the Intrepid.
Where are you going to go for DPS past GW, TBR, and PSW?
Tyken's shares cooldown with Gravwell, and is the inferior choice for damage
TBR and Tractor Beam, same thing.
Where is the DPS? 3 abilities, with PSW being very weak "icing" on a strong AE cake.
Not a single point of DPS on the rest of them, unless you count the shield drains... We could have a whole other thread on those....
So you can build a ship that has 2 copies of each and some heals, but then you come to your tac officer. You are pretty well forced into 2 faw instead of apb to keep up, because photonic officer isn't going to give you nearly as much uptime as a2b will, and if you use a2b you can't use ep2w, because you can't fit it and you aren't going very far with to ep2s (a dead sci does 0 dps)
So, on a ship with 6 weapon slots, you are reduced to no apb, and only 3 sci skills to pull up the DPS, or a2b to give many redundant sci slots and then lose one of the only skills that was keeping you even in the running (ep2w)
It doesn't happen. Even a poorly played Gal-R can out damage an Intrepid. That said, the Intrepid is likely to bring more to the group then a poorly played Gal-R.
A well built tac Gal-R can break 20k. I watched them do it with my own eyes. I personally have done 15k on my sci, without re-skilling to make it even better, and that was while ago I have even better gear now. I dare you to produce a 20k tac Intrepid.
I'm not trying to be combative, I'm just trying to share the situation, from somebody who is qualified, and has made the attempt. Trust me. I was surprised myself how poorly my Intrepid handled.
Edit: An Intrepid can't even double cover all of their sci DPS abilities, because you can't fit 2 copies of grav well and 2 copies of PSW, you are forced into a cooldown reduction scheme, which photonic officer is many times less effective then A2B and the Intrepid doesn't have eng slots to compete.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Edit: I realize that sounded combative and I really did not mean it to be. If you can do it, please do. I would like to see it. I could only learn from it.
I'm fairly confident that you will be unable.
I'm not forgetting photonic officer. I clearly stated that it underperforms. Again, I invite you to make the attempt.
Also, somewhat unrelated, I would tend to prefer ep2s over tt and apb over ep2w.... leaving me with faw apb/ep2s dem... in your example. Mileage may vary, I do have points in my attack patterns, and I find tac team to be frivolous in most cases PvE.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
doing DPS in a sci ship is missing the point of a sci ship. any actual damage it deals is gravy, its point of existing is putting enemy ships in a position were true DPS ships damage them more effectively. on a team, this is infinitely more helpful then any galaxy R beam DPS, that cant even break even with built in shield regeneration
A well built tac Gal-R can break 20k. I watched them do it with my own eyes. I personally have done 15k on my sci, without re-skilling to make it even better, and that was while ago I have even better gear now. I dare you to produce a 20k tac Intrepid.
I agree, a well played sci/tac toon on the right build on the right group can achieve Gal R on those dps levels.
doing DPS in a sci ship is missing the point of a sci ship. any actual damage it deals is gravy, its point of existing is putting enemy ships in a position were true DPS ships damage them more effectively. on a team, this is infinitely more helpful then any galaxy R beam DPS, that cant even break even with built in shield regeneration
This is true on Galaxy R. Galaxy R definitely doesnt help a well organized, well played group compared to Sci ships. Galaxy R does excel on PuGs though wherein organization is in a minimum and aggro is required.
We have to accept the Galaxy R has really small tac and sci options, build around what it has and play the ship around where it excels at rather than force Gal R do what other ships excel at.
the galaxy is a TANK
i love it just the way it is.
love the set bonus they given it (though use it to start with, but now gone back to other consoles)
if all this crying ever makes the dev's change how the galaxy works right now
i am going to find all you cry baby's and send 1000s of pro PVP players to hunt you down for messing up my tank build on a galaxy
stop crying about it, the galaxy was never a warship
if the feds ever needed a war ship to do something, they sent a group of 20 ships in with 1 galaxy in the middle to you know TANK
the galaxy is a TANK
i love it just the way it is.
love the set bonus they given it (though use it to start with, but now gone back to other consoles)
if all this crying ever makes the dev's change how the galaxy works right now
i am going to find all you cry baby's and send 1000s of pro PVP players to hunt you down for messing up my tank build on a galaxy
stop crying about it, the galaxy was never a warship
if the feds ever needed a war ship to do something, they sent a group of 20 ships in with 1 galaxy in the middle to you know TANK
I belive it has been explained more than a hundred times that the Galaxy was more than a toothless tank.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
the galaxy is a TANK
i love it just the way it is.
love the set bonus they given it (though use it to start with, but now gone back to other consoles)
if all this crying ever makes the dev's change how the galaxy works right now
i am going to find all you cry baby's and send 1000s of pro PVP players to hunt you down for messing up my tank build on a galaxy
stop crying about it, the galaxy was never a warship
if the feds ever needed a war ship to do something, they sent a group of 20 ships in with 1 galaxy in the middle to you know TANK
Its great you like it as is. Power to you for that one. Most the changes proposed wouldn't keep you from using it the same way you do now but give others options to use it a different way.
It was considered a warship and mistaken as one in a few episodes and think the Klingons even said it was a class of warship. Federation may not name them warships but they built them to be capable of fighting if it came to that. As far as a tank if your looking at the shows the Galaxy class could give as good as it took. So saying it was a tank isn't correct. These are not simply minded computer programs, and no one gonna shoot at a galaxy class ship that can take a pounding instead of the smaller easier targets first. Only reason to take down the strongest or toughest opponent is for a strategic advantage like if its in command giving out orders to other ships.
Mirror universe it was a warship in the episode with Enterprise C (Yesterdays Enterprise maybe). Either way the Galaxy was made to be Versatile actually having to ability to trade out its parts in the saucer section so it could do whatever job it was assigned to do.
Most here just want it to be a capable ship that stands in line with most other cruisers. Personally I'd love a non third nacelle Galaxy that can actually put out nice DPS hence why I suggested adding variants to the Fleet ship yard. My main hope for this game is that one day we'll be able to just pick a frame of the ship we want to use and build it the way we want it from the ground up. Having the option to pick out a hull add to it what power bonuses we get the bo slots and console arrangement we want from any other ship of the same class we own. If they added that I'd probably own a fleet worth of Galaxy's and a few Intrepid's (personally my favorite ship in trek universe though wish it could be made a light cruiser instead of a science ship).
the galaxy is a TANK
i love it just the way it is.
love the set bonus they given it (though use it to start with, but now gone back to other consoles)
if all this crying ever makes the dev's change how the galaxy works right now
i am going to find all you cry baby's and send 1000s of pro PVP players to hunt you down for messing up my tank build on a galaxy
stop crying about it, the galaxy was never a warship
if the feds ever needed a war ship to do something, they sent a group of 20 ships in with 1 galaxy in the middle to you know TANK
First of all, the Galaxy Class was the Starfleet ship with the most offensive potenital in the fleet. The reason they didn't use it as such has to do more with the Federation's ideals and the role the Enterprise-D had and not with the ship's potential. The fact that it blew holes bigger than it's saucer in a Borg cube should be proof enough of the power the two biggest phaser arrays in the Quadrant had.
You're right, in this game it's a tank. I have mine set up to be an uber tank first and foremost because I had the idea of being indestructible when I first started STO and I love the Galaxy. But it's the absolute worst tank in the lineup. I can tank better in about any cruiser in the Starfleet lineup.
This thread has been about many things related, including fixing engineering skills, game mechanics and bringing back the relevance of the tank in STO (which currently is pretty insignificant) as well as providing the Galaxy Class with a role in the game, so one of the most iconic ship is no longer scraping at the bottom of the barrel in STO.
You don't need to send us PvPers, a huge portion of the people posting here are dedicated PvPers. Heck, ddis is one of the most experienced PvPers around here and I learned much about building my ships from his threads.
The way I see it, any elementary change to any ship - not only the Galaxy should be optional. So they take the complaints into consideration, they make enhancements and then give people the option to either go with the new setup or keep the old. Heck, they could do it like they did with the Patrol Escort - just make a new "better" version and let the ones that want it buy, while making no changes to the old one. I know I wouldn't spare Zen for a new improved Galaxy Class, but I'd keep my old one cause it's heavily invested in a build that fits her as it is.
Taking away from people what they purchased is always a poor form and I think nothing in this thread indicated that anyone wants an ultimatum where everyone would have to change the ship.
The way I see it, any elementary change to any ship - not only the Galaxy should be optional. So they take the complaints into consideration, they make enhancements and then give people the option to either go with the new setup or keep the old. Heck, they could do it like they did with the Patrol Escort - just make a new "better" version and let the ones that want it buy, while making no changes to the old one. I know I wouldn't spare Zen for a new improved Galaxy Class, but I'd keep my old one cause it's heavily invested in a build that fits her as it is.
Taking away from people what they purchased is always a poor form and I think nothing in this thread indicated that anyone wants an ultimatum where everyone would have to change the ship.
I like that idea!
I'm sure i would buy a good version of a Galaxy Class.
Heck i would be alreasdy satisfied if there would be a option to remove the thrid nacelle (ad the other goofy stuff) from the Galaxy X and make it look like a G- R.
Hey, nice to see you back man, it has been a while.
It's nice to be back !:)
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
the galaxy is a TANK
i love it just the way it is.
love the set bonus they given it (though use it to start with, but now gone back to other consoles)
if all this crying ever makes the dev's change how the galaxy works right now
i am going to find all you cry baby's and send 1000s of pro PVP players to hunt you down for messing up my tank build on a galaxy
stop crying about it, the galaxy was never a warship
if the feds ever needed a war ship to do something, they sent a group of 20 ships in with 1 galaxy in the middle to you know TANK
dev smerf acount?
it tanks for TRIBBLE. its hamstrung be 3 ENS level eng skills, WILE also having 3 LTC+ eng skills. if a ship has 3 LTC+ eng skills, and one of them cant be ET3 or an EPtX3, your left with a lack of any useful skill at ether the ENS level or LTC level. no mater if your tank/healing, running an AtB DPS build, anything. no good tank only has a LT sci ether.
you wont find a single pro pvper who doesn't think the galaxy R is the worst ship in the game, and basically unusable in pvp.
To canon Trek about nemesis. Galaxy was the second most powerful ship in the fleet with only the soveriegn beating it. She could hold a conference, study a nebula, Do various science experiments, AND battle and alien warship ALL at the same time. Thus she is the most versitile ship in the fleet. THUS IN STO the Galaxy R should be ALL universal BO slot. PROBLEM SOLVED.
it tanks for TRIBBLE. its hamstrung be 3 ENS level eng skills, WILE also having 3 LTC+ eng skills. if a ship has 3 LTC+ eng skills, and one of them cant be ET3 or an EPtX3, your left with a lack of any useful skill at ether the ENS level or LTC level. no mater if your tank/healing, running an AtB DPS build, anything. no good tank only has a LT sci ether.
you wont find a single pro pvper who doesn't think the galaxy R is the worst ship in the game, and basically unusable in pvp.
I may agree with you of Galaxy R on how it lacks helping preset well built groups compared to its SCI ship counterparts.
Sorry but I have to disagree with you with regards to your opinion of Gal R lack of tanking.
It is one the best tankers out there on the right build on there right player. Do not mix up its weakness in preset groups as the tanking capability of Galaxy R. Last time I checked PuGs are majority of the player base while presets, min/max, dps players like us are small minorities.
The difference between a Sci build healer and Eng tank/healer is HoT or burst heals. Different playstyles, different uses. On a HoT timing of heals is very different from burst heals. Not only that, the Burst heals of a Eng ability gives more resistance than any equal Sci ability. So, the Eng abilities are optimal if you are healing yourself with lots of buffer and resistance to your buld and ship which min/max, dps/sci players almost never do unless they want to sacrifice their dps.
On pvp presets, yes it is the one of worst ship out there. On PuG pvp, you cannot say it is the worst ship out there due lack of organization of pvp PuGs and insane amount of buffer tank, resistance along with 10-15k dps that Fleet Gal R can bring.
People who whine about Galaxy R should put this in their thick heads: It is really weak on preset groups regardless if it is PvE or PvP. It is an unflexible ship with regards to boff so playstyle is limited. But, saying it tanks TRIBBLE is just complete utter lie or too naive to even know what the Galaxy R is capable of.
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Easy.
Tier 1 Miranda.
Where's my monies?
You get nothing!
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Serious question.
only is it;s console was a super form of ramming speed that when you hit your opponent they turned into a planet
now that would be epic LOLs in the battle zone or fleet alert
It would still be a nice move to have a galaxy variant with and eng/sci reversed nebula layout. That's what I suggested way back before the separation transformation and all that came into account.
It's the same ship family and they share quite a lot of design elements and mission profiles. CMDR Eng, LTC Sci, Lt Tac, Lt Uni and ENS Eng would be a nice choice and make sense for the console layout the ship has.
I mean why does the Gal have 3 science consoles in the first place when it only has two science abilities? It just makes no sense. It doesn't make sense either to disregard anything without LTC tac and LTC sci to be a useless ship. But a Explorer with inversed Nebula layout and sensor analysis would be quite a sight to behold
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the R. the X was fine, now its really fine. its always been about the R
But!... The Miranda! Think of the Miranda!
Ideas for making the Galaxy-R more viable in it's current state!
Give a passive where the more Engineering consoles you have equipped, the more +Something you get. Only apply it to Cruisers and Battle Cruisers.
Make a Cmd level Engineering skill only trainable by Engineering Captains that does something super-duper awesome for every Engineering power you have.
Create more Ensign level Engineering powers that don't overlap and have decent effects. I mean, look at all of the Ensign level Sci powers that don't overlap.
Yes, I agree with you about the X. I would agree with you a couple of seasons back about the R. The R's quality is subjective on the player especially now that there are more tools in Season 9 to help R overcome those disadvantages.
The R was never meant to out dps any tac heavy ship nor be as flexible as odyssey nor have too many Sci stuff. I have accepted that fact. I never forced to play the ship not the way it should be played. Forcing it to be played like an assault cruiser, avenger, fleet carrier or an escort and used to fast paced/high dps will really be disappointed with Gal R just like how disappointed I was a couple of seasons ago. So, I adapted and improved instead of complaining.
Regardless, in its present state with all tools/experiences taken from Season 9 and earlier, Fleet Galaxy R can do at 10k dps on ISE at PUGs and at the same time still have a total hp shield and hull at 100k at 60% allres on the right build played the right way which will aggro an average of 80% of total damage of the all mobs to your whole group per mission.
So, I suggest players to go back to drawing board with regards to this ship as certain changes in Season 9 helped the Fleet Galaxy R.
no, galaxy x count as well, at least for me.
sorry, this hangar don't make it "fine", it just make it a little better.
we are still talking about a 6base/25 inertia lt tact ship.
and the spinal lance is still TRIBBLE.
but i mostly speak for pvp, for pve the hangar is a good power addition on the long term.
would love that they remove that hangar and give it a lt commander tact instead, wich will give it more reliable firepower and more versatility and less cliky.
but keep in mind we are just talking here, nothing we proposed or suggest will ever be implemented by cryptic concerning these 2 ships.
sorry, it is just to not keep your hope up that this will eventually come to any changes.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
The thread started as a complaint about the Galaxy-R being lackluster, but then naturally acompanied the Galaxy-X as well through time. Now after the "reboot" the Galaxy-R is the main foucs, although there are still complaints about the Galaxy-X mainly because of the Boff seating and the stupid slapping of the hangar instead of doing something more in line with the class.
Anyway, noone can deny that in their current state, the Galaxy-X is lightyears away from the Galaxy-R in terms of in-game usefulness.
The ideas for imporvement you gave here are solid and similar things have been discussed already. The real question though is - how do you implement such improvements so the Galaxy-R could have the most benefit, so it's brought up closer to the rest of the cruisers - without those improvements benefiting the other cruisers even more. Because if this happens, the Galaxy-R will still be the worst at the end of the day. An example of this is the shared team abilities cooldowns - when they took out the shared cooldowns, that benefited the Galaxy-R, but ironically - that benefited the Excelsior for ex. 50 times more.
I'm using the Galaxy-R. In time, with much much grinding and investment, fine-tuning, learning all the tips and tricks and hours upon hours of practice I managed to make a respectfull Galaxy-R. It can carry any pug and does a solid amount of DPS, even good amount when I'm having a good day.
Personally, I'd be fine with the Galaxy-R's current console and Boff setup if they implement changes to engineering skills like the ones you've mentioned and bring back the role of a tanking cruiser in STO. But, I'm afraid that ship sailed a long time ago, I look at my new Tempest and that thing can tank any elite content, and it's an escort. And there are people that'll tell you that the trinity is the wrong way to go, which they're probably right about.
Besides ddis's proposal for the Galaxy ships to swap Boff stations on separation that came after we found out about the DSDs and the ability for Cryptic to do that, which is a very good proposal and could solve the Galaxy complaints forever - I personally also fancied giving the Galaxy-R the Boff station setup of the D'Deridex, sligthly altered by having the ens.station an engineering one and keeping the current console setup. It would prevent the ship being a good A2B FOTM platform, but it would be a more genuine representation of the ship - jack of all trades, master of none and would definitely make it much more usefull that it currently is.
Well, I still maintain that the Intrepid is the worst ship in the game. It can out sci a Gal-R... but that's about it.
Doesn't really matter, as even the worst ships in the game play fine in PvE, and PvP is so god-awful right now I don't even consider it (Even tho it is what I spend most of my time doing nowadays)
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I have made builds for the Galaxy along with other cruisers that can tank a Tac cube for as long as it takes for others to blow it up. But with this same build I do slow damage barely scratching it compared to my builds with Sovereigns and the new Avenger or my Defiant. What they lack in staying power with my Dps builds they make up for in the fact that I may die once or twice but I also knock out a good chuck of their hull.
Only way I can see making Pve interesting or well a challenge for higher gear players in a way that makes ships like the Galaxy, Star cruiser, Intrepid, and other ships lacking in Tactical options and well Dps is gonna really throw pvp into turmoil.
Only other option is simply making all ships customizable in their boff and console slots and power distribution so that we can pick our ship skin and build it up how we want. Sadly this won't fix the game it just make less desirable ships into ships that can go toe to toe in the Dps game we have now.
I'm not one that likes the whole Tank healer support dps roles in games but its either go back to just that or make all ships able to be built in ways that more perform in the way this game is going as of now.
You would be surprised, then.
The extra weapon slots, DEM, EPTW, A2B and EWP can outdamage what an intrepid can put out. Plus, the Gal is many times more resilient.
What it comes down to, quite simply, is cruiser > sci ship, so primal cruiser > primal sci ship.
I do concede, the margin is small, and both ships turn up near the bottom. People over value science and undervalue engineering, I think because science is flashy where engineering is consistent.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I do more DPS then any sci I have ever seen. I use builds that exemplify exactly what you are describing.
The Intrepid is not good.
The only thing that keeps it from having a thread this long is people go "Grav wellllssssss!" and don't notice how under performing the ship is.
Quite simply put, everything that can be said about the Gal-R can be said for the Intrepid.
Where are you going to go for DPS past GW, TBR, and PSW?
Tyken's shares cooldown with Gravwell, and is the inferior choice for damage
TBR and Tractor Beam, same thing.
Where is the DPS? 3 abilities, with PSW being very weak "icing" on a strong AE cake.
Not a single point of DPS on the rest of them, unless you count the shield drains... We could have a whole other thread on those....
So you can build a ship that has 2 copies of each and some heals, but then you come to your tac officer. You are pretty well forced into 2 faw instead of apb to keep up, because photonic officer isn't going to give you nearly as much uptime as a2b will, and if you use a2b you can't use ep2w, because you can't fit it and you aren't going very far with to ep2s (a dead sci does 0 dps)
So, on a ship with 6 weapon slots, you are reduced to no apb, and only 3 sci skills to pull up the DPS, or a2b to give many redundant sci slots and then lose one of the only skills that was keeping you even in the running (ep2w)
It doesn't happen. Even a poorly played Gal-R can out damage an Intrepid. That said, the Intrepid is likely to bring more to the group then a poorly played Gal-R.
A well built tac Gal-R can break 20k. I watched them do it with my own eyes. I personally have done 15k on my sci, without re-skilling to make it even better, and that was while ago I have even better gear now. I dare you to produce a 20k tac Intrepid.
I'm not trying to be combative, I'm just trying to share the situation, from somebody who is qualified, and has made the attempt. Trust me. I was surprised myself how poorly my Intrepid handled.
Edit: An Intrepid can't even double cover all of their sci DPS abilities, because you can't fit 2 copies of grav well and 2 copies of PSW, you are forced into a cooldown reduction scheme, which photonic officer is many times less effective then A2B and the Intrepid doesn't have eng slots to compete.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I've done it.
I know.
Edit: I realize that sounded combative and I really did not mean it to be. If you can do it, please do. I would like to see it. I could only learn from it.
I'm fairly confident that you will be unable.
I'm not forgetting photonic officer. I clearly stated that it underperforms. Again, I invite you to make the attempt.
Also, somewhat unrelated, I would tend to prefer ep2s over tt and apb over ep2w.... leaving me with faw apb/ep2s dem... in your example. Mileage may vary, I do have points in my attack patterns, and I find tac team to be frivolous in most cases PvE.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Done.
I agree, a well played sci/tac toon on the right build on the right group can achieve Gal R on those dps levels.
This is true on Galaxy R. Galaxy R definitely doesnt help a well organized, well played group compared to Sci ships. Galaxy R does excel on PuGs though wherein organization is in a minimum and aggro is required.
We have to accept the Galaxy R has really small tac and sci options, build around what it has and play the ship around where it excels at rather than force Gal R do what other ships excel at.
i love it just the way it is.
love the set bonus they given it (though use it to start with, but now gone back to other consoles)
if all this crying ever makes the dev's change how the galaxy works right now
i am going to find all you cry baby's and send 1000s of pro PVP players to hunt you down for messing up my tank build on a galaxy
stop crying about it, the galaxy was never a warship
if the feds ever needed a war ship to do something, they sent a group of 20 ships in with 1 galaxy in the middle to you know TANK
Lol, i love posts like that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
I belive it has been explained more than a hundred times that the Galaxy was more than a toothless tank.
Its great you like it as is. Power to you for that one. Most the changes proposed wouldn't keep you from using it the same way you do now but give others options to use it a different way.
It was considered a warship and mistaken as one in a few episodes and think the Klingons even said it was a class of warship. Federation may not name them warships but they built them to be capable of fighting if it came to that. As far as a tank if your looking at the shows the Galaxy class could give as good as it took. So saying it was a tank isn't correct. These are not simply minded computer programs, and no one gonna shoot at a galaxy class ship that can take a pounding instead of the smaller easier targets first. Only reason to take down the strongest or toughest opponent is for a strategic advantage like if its in command giving out orders to other ships.
Mirror universe it was a warship in the episode with Enterprise C (Yesterdays Enterprise maybe). Either way the Galaxy was made to be Versatile actually having to ability to trade out its parts in the saucer section so it could do whatever job it was assigned to do.
Most here just want it to be a capable ship that stands in line with most other cruisers. Personally I'd love a non third nacelle Galaxy that can actually put out nice DPS hence why I suggested adding variants to the Fleet ship yard. My main hope for this game is that one day we'll be able to just pick a frame of the ship we want to use and build it the way we want it from the ground up. Having the option to pick out a hull add to it what power bonuses we get the bo slots and console arrangement we want from any other ship of the same class we own. If they added that I'd probably own a fleet worth of Galaxy's and a few Intrepid's (personally my favorite ship in trek universe though wish it could be made a light cruiser instead of a science ship).
First of all, the Galaxy Class was the Starfleet ship with the most offensive potenital in the fleet. The reason they didn't use it as such has to do more with the Federation's ideals and the role the Enterprise-D had and not with the ship's potential. The fact that it blew holes bigger than it's saucer in a Borg cube should be proof enough of the power the two biggest phaser arrays in the Quadrant had.
You're right, in this game it's a tank. I have mine set up to be an uber tank first and foremost because I had the idea of being indestructible when I first started STO and I love the Galaxy. But it's the absolute worst tank in the lineup. I can tank better in about any cruiser in the Starfleet lineup.
This thread has been about many things related, including fixing engineering skills, game mechanics and bringing back the relevance of the tank in STO (which currently is pretty insignificant) as well as providing the Galaxy Class with a role in the game, so one of the most iconic ship is no longer scraping at the bottom of the barrel in STO.
You don't need to send us PvPers, a huge portion of the people posting here are dedicated PvPers. Heck, ddis is one of the most experienced PvPers around here and I learned much about building my ships from his threads.
The way I see it, any elementary change to any ship - not only the Galaxy should be optional. So they take the complaints into consideration, they make enhancements and then give people the option to either go with the new setup or keep the old. Heck, they could do it like they did with the Patrol Escort - just make a new "better" version and let the ones that want it buy, while making no changes to the old one. I know I wouldn't spare Zen for a new improved Galaxy Class, but I'd keep my old one cause it's heavily invested in a build that fits her as it is.
Taking away from people what they purchased is always a poor form and I think nothing in this thread indicated that anyone wants an ultimatum where everyone would have to change the ship.
Hey, nice to see you back man, it has been a while.
I'm sure i would buy a good version of a Galaxy Class.
Heck i would be alreasdy satisfied if there would be a option to remove the thrid nacelle (ad the other goofy stuff) from the Galaxy X and make it look like a G- R.
It's nice to be back !:)
dev smerf acount?
it tanks for TRIBBLE. its hamstrung be 3 ENS level eng skills, WILE also having 3 LTC+ eng skills. if a ship has 3 LTC+ eng skills, and one of them cant be ET3 or an EPtX3, your left with a lack of any useful skill at ether the ENS level or LTC level. no mater if your tank/healing, running an AtB DPS build, anything. no good tank only has a LT sci ether.
you wont find a single pro pvper who doesn't think the galaxy R is the worst ship in the game, and basically unusable in pvp.
I may agree with you of Galaxy R on how it lacks helping preset well built groups compared to its SCI ship counterparts.
Sorry but I have to disagree with you with regards to your opinion of Gal R lack of tanking.
It is one the best tankers out there on the right build on there right player. Do not mix up its weakness in preset groups as the tanking capability of Galaxy R. Last time I checked PuGs are majority of the player base while presets, min/max, dps players like us are small minorities.
The difference between a Sci build healer and Eng tank/healer is HoT or burst heals. Different playstyles, different uses. On a HoT timing of heals is very different from burst heals. Not only that, the Burst heals of a Eng ability gives more resistance than any equal Sci ability. So, the Eng abilities are optimal if you are healing yourself with lots of buffer and resistance to your buld and ship which min/max, dps/sci players almost never do unless they want to sacrifice their dps.
On pvp presets, yes it is the one of worst ship out there. On PuG pvp, you cannot say it is the worst ship out there due lack of organization of pvp PuGs and insane amount of buffer tank, resistance along with 10-15k dps that Fleet Gal R can bring.
People who whine about Galaxy R should put this in their thick heads: It is really weak on preset groups regardless if it is PvE or PvP. It is an unflexible ship with regards to boff so playstyle is limited. But, saying it tanks TRIBBLE is just complete utter lie or too naive to even know what the Galaxy R is capable of.