The Sovereign was designed to fight the borg. It was under development during BOBW and would be ludicrous if Starfleets new weapons systems under development, as Cmdr Shelbey stated, we're not incorporated into the Sovereign design. Was it's primary mission to solely fight the Borg? No its a multi mission heavy cruiser / explorer but if you think it's systems were developed without the borg threat in mind well that's just preposterous.
The Sovereign was not designed to fight the Borg.
Did it have the best Starfleet tech that would be anti-Borg capable? Yes, she probably had - as you said it would be dumb to have tech availible and not use it.
However, my point was that the Sovereign was not Starfleet's answer to the Borg threat. The Sovereign was on the drawing board waaay before that and the ship would have been constructed regardless of meeting the Borg or not.
On the other hand - the Defiant is Starfleet's direct anwer to the Borg threat. If there wasn't the threat the Borg presented, it's safe to say that the Defiant design would never had existed.
Sorry mate, you said the Federation never built warships, I showed you a quote from an episode where it is explicitly stated that they did build warships. The fact it was in a different timeline is totally irrelevant, it means that in a war time scenario the Federation has/would become a military organisation with warships.
STO is set in a time of war with multiple conflicts fronts, they should be a military organisation with warships as we have seen before in Canon, period. Argue about some points if you like but if we are basing our arguments on canon then you are clearly wrong.
I think you're missing the point a bit. Starfleet has always built ships capable of war. Like I mentioned numerous times in this thread, to send people poking around in unknown space without the ship they're on being capable for battle is kinda' TRIBBLE. They did this without becomming militant.
War doesn't mean that the Federation and/or Starfleet will suddenly turn into a full military organization. They are what they are and they'll continue to be what they are because it's the way they handle stuff and it has worked for them succesfully for hundreds of years.
And you're wrong - canon has actually shown us that the Federation would never abandon their principles, values and the way they do things in favor of militarization.
No they didn't. I have no idea where are you pulling this out of.
His point is that because Starfleet was militarized in one alternate timeline it should be treated as an empiric fact that the same happens every time once they face war.
But that argument doesn't hold water: Prime timeline Starfleet faced war many times and never developed in the way it did in one quantum reality. In fact, the very same episode (if you didn't grasp the hints I gave away) Guinan states that the Enterprise is supposed to be a ship of peace. Two realities and one of it is "falsfied" in Star Trek canon. Take your pick, mattjohnsonva.
Not even in the reality the Galaxy Refit originates from we see them any more militarized than regular Starfleet.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
a) Given the circumstances Starfleet found themselves in after the Battle of Narendra III portrayed in Yesterday's Enterprise, it became a military organisation, and the Enterprise was one of their first warships.
The Galaxy R is not that ship. The Galaxy R is the ship you see for 7 seasons. The Devs are firm on what they want its layout to be. Warship isn't what they're going for with it.
Given similar circumstances in a different timeline, ie our own STO period, it is not unreasonable to expect Starfleet to evolve along similar lines to that which we see in the aforementioned Y.E.
They did. Just not with the Galaxy. They evolved the Assault Cruiser (the Imperial skin, the Reagent, and the fleet Assault Cruiser). They evolved the tactical variant of the Odyssey. The Chimera and the Avenger. They just didn't evolve the Galaxy class any further in 2409. Though they still have the Galaxy R and Galaxy X performing a ton of duties and it performs them quite well. But they have other, toothier cruisers for their war effort. Why's this such an issue?
They have warships. They even fitted up a Galaxy to be a better cruiser with teeth (the fleet Galaxy X).
The Galaxy R isn't where they're focusing their warship-ness in 2409. Why is this a problem?
The Sovereign was upgraded to fight the borg during its development. Remember that Starfleet knew about the borg before Best of Both Worlds and the Sovereign was not yet complete by then either. Starfleets answer to the borg wasn't just the Defiant but to increase the Tactical capabilities of all its ships. If it weren't for the borg threat the Sovereign probably wouldn't have been commissioned with all of its tactical advancements.
I think that even without the Borg, the Sovereign would have been launched with all the tactical advancements developed by Starfleet so far. There's no reason to cut the newly developed ship short of advanced tech they have.
It's just that, if there were no Borg, those tactical advancements wouldn't be anti-borg and the tech would be different, but it would still be the most advanced Starfleet has to offer at the moment.
Anyway, I was not talking about tech in general, but starships. Ofcourse that the general answer of Starfleet to the Borg threat would be implementing newly developed anti-Borg tech to all of the ships, but in terms of ships that was the Defiant. The Sovereign was just a ship that would have been released regardless, but had the benefit of installing all the newest tech due to all of that happening in-between her construction and comissioning.
You've almost got it, not quite but almost. Yes I am extrapolating that
a) Given the circumstances Starfleet found themselves in after the Battle of Narendra III portrayed in Yesterday's Enterprise, it became a military organisation, and the Enterprise was one of their first warships.
b) Given similar circumstances in a different timeline, ie our own STO period, it is not unreasonable to expect Starfleet to evolve along similar lines to that which we see in the aforementioned Y.E.
Guinan was stating that at that time and in the timeline that she belonged to (defined by a quantum signature - ST Parallels) the Enterprise was not at war with the Klingons and the ship was instead a ship of peace. That has absolutely no relevance to what Starfleet would do should they find themselves in Guinan's timeline a few years later now at war with the Borg, the Voth, the Undine etc.
If someone shoots your dad in an alternative timeline you are going to be pissed and want revenge.
Now if in another timeline that shooting never occurred at the same time but happened later you would again become pissed and want revenge.
It is therefore reasonable to assume given the historical facts available to us that during times of war Starfleet ceases to be an organisation of exploration and peace and becomes a defender of the federation in a militaristic way as we have seen.
Sorry, but this makes no sense to me. No sense at all.
It is therefore reasonable to assume given the historical facts available to us that during times of war Starfleet ceases to be an organisation of exploration and peace and becomes a defender of the federation in a militaristic way as we have seen.
I don't see why. We don't need to refer to an alternate timeline, Starfleet's mission NEVER changed no matter how a ridiculous of a shootout the show or movie became. Further, you are assuming that one change in a particular timeline is bound to happen in "our" timeline as well by one way or the other. But that's not what the show depicted.
Even STO lore suggests we actually are in the prime timeline and everything up to Nemesis happened exactly the way we saw it on-screen. While I disagree with it, because STOs wonky writing makes no ****ing sense, it is clear that although the game is a shooting gallery it is still the one Starfleet we know. (lol).
Further, you are assuming that all conflict in STO happens the exact same time. While we players experience all of that, it's not this way mechanically. The Klingon War is more or less resolved once you advance the storyline. The Nimbus conflict is resolved once you finished that one and so on. By the time you reach end-game you basically defeated the Borg in "into the hive", crippled the Voth in "The Breach" and the coalition now prepares to face 8472. If all of this does indeed happen within one year then our cadets become vice admirals in less than one year either and Starfleet pumps out 20 prototype/new ship classes in mass production and last but not least each fleet consists of four trillion ships and thirteen bazillion people
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
according to Gene Roddenbury starfleet was split into 3 orgnizations
Colonial operations command
Galxay exploration command
Military operations command
So yes starfleet had warships and dedicted military crews for them . thats why starfleet had many types of the same class ships...some battleships were for war...some for exploration the same for cruisers
some destroyers like the defiant were short range some like the intrepid were long range
The defiant was classified as a escort as cover to hide its true purpose from starfleets enemys and the intrepid was a destroyer not science ship...thats STO's thing
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Their main goal is peaceful scientific and diplomatic exploration but when that peace has been shattered it's their job to protect the Federation.
Hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.
Which, in this game, is why the Feds have access to so many tactical-orientated ships: various Escorts, Avengers, Vestas, Odysseys, etc. The created a series of military vessels for the game. They do not consider the Galaxy to be a military vessel - especially since it was designed to carry families.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
This wasn't specifically about the Galaxy rather about more about how Starfleet would have changed into a militaristic organisation in a war situation as they did in Yesterday's Enterprise timeline.
Seems really weird though. I mean it's pretty obvious looking at the ships that do exist in 2409 STO that Starfleet has warships fit for the task of fighting wars. Just pointing to the Avenger would seem to make that "debate" pretty much end.
So yeah, you're right. In 2409 Starfleet designed warships.
None of them are the Galaxy though. Is that ok with you?
I was discussing with AngryTarg that Starfleet would probably now be a military organisation given the circumstances. If you want to jump in and comment that's fine but please take the time to read what has already been said. This wasn't specifically about the Galaxy rather about more about how Starfleet would have changed into a militaristic organisation in a war situation as they did in Yesterday's Enterprise timeline.
Starfleet already performs the militaries' duties. Upon the foundation of the UFP, sterfleet absorbted the militaries. It is per se a paramilitary organization tasked with everything related to space faring services, including defense. Yet, they perform these duties without the thorough militarization that our present day society appreciates. Starfleet is neither civilian nor military, it's Starfleet. The mindset is different, their representation is different and their principles are different no matter how "serious" the threat is.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
according to Gene Roddenbury starfleet was split into 3 orgnizations
Colonial operations command
Galxay exploration command
Military operations command
So yes starfleet had warships and dedicted military crews for them . thats why starfleet had many types of the same class ships...some battleships were for war...some for exploration the same for cruisers
some destroyers like the defiant were short range some like the intrepid were long range
The defiant was classified as a escort as cover to hide its true purpose from starfleets enemys and the intrepid was a destroyer not science ship...thats STO's thing
Even including JJVerse, there are no such branches you mention.
Judge Advocate General
Office of the Inspector General
Spaceframe development
Starfleet Administration
Starfleet Advanced Technologies
Starfleet Bureau of Information
Starfleet Cartography
Starfleet Corps of Engineers
Starfleet Exploratory Division
Starfleet Intelligence
Department of Internal Affairs
Starfleet Materiel Supply Command
Starfleet Medical
Starfleet Medical Academy
Starfleet Mission Operations
Starfleet Operational Support Services
Starfleet Operations
Administrative Operations
Starfleet Orbital Operations
Starfleet Research and Development
Starfleet Shipyards Operations
Starfleet Security
Starfleet Science
Starfleet Stellar Imaging
Starfleet Tactical
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Come on shpoks, it's not that complicated. The premise is simple. Given a war situation of sufficient seriousness Starfleet becomes a military organisation with warships. It happened in YE and it would most likely happen in the STO timeline, but Cryptic are so mixed up on their content that nothing is consistent, the shows and movies were bad enough but Cryptic take canon inconsistencies to new heights. Only JJ screwed it up more imo, although I loved his films.
I just think you're still missing the point. Every ship Starfleet created is a war capable ship. Every single one of those ships is singlehandedly capable of planeraty anihilation. How do you think the small-ish Intrepid managed to pull through everything unknown thrown at her in the Delta Quadrant?
Starfleet is a mix of many things. Their existence is multi-role and their responsibilities vary. They are partially the military designated to protect the Federation. They are partially the suposed evolution of NASA. They are also partially the driving body of technological advancements. And so on and on.
There is no real need in any circumistances for them to change into a full militant organization. What they do works just fine the way they do it. As I said, such attempts were shunned in canon.
Starfleet faced a war of never before seen magnitude in DS9, a war they would have probably lost without the help of the Prophets and yet they didn't abandon their principle of work and turn into something militant.
Examples such as YE are irrelevant, because it's not happeining in the prime universe and timeline. And I have serious issues taking anything Cryptic created or explained seriously.
By the time the Defiant debuted, Roddenberry wasn't involved in Trek at all.
The intrepid wasnt either ?
whats your point
Those are just ships most might be familier with as examples
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
This is a good question. Is it ok with me. Hmm, I'd have to say I don't like it, I'd have to say that I would have preferred to see the Sovvy and the Galaxy being adapted as the main two warships of the 2409 era with Rikers GX being an obvious battleship. However I understand why Cryptic have done it the way they have.
If they ever gave us a truly DPS orientated GX or even a half decent GR a lot of people would be satisfied and Cryptic would probably assume that we wouldn't buy Avengers and the like. The fact that most of the STO enthusiasts have many toons and each are setup for different playstyles with different ships never seems to have come into their calculations.
Good points
However Cryptic is so far offbase with there ship designs and the power each ship has is comical too the extream
Very little about cryptics ships and there powers dont even slightly resemble what we have all watched in the movies the series's and the GR aproved pc and board games
Cryptic STO is a alternte universes set in Funky mode lol...But its all we got so.......Thats just how it is
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
The reason they had families on board during a time of peace and exploration was bc the ship was so darn strong it was considered safe to do so NOT bc it was a luxury liner or Colonization vessel.
It was supposed to go to the far reaches of space and Starfleet felt it would make long-term missions more appealing if people could take their families with them.
^^^
And it's design show how ridiculous Starfleet was to believe that. Want examples?:
The destruction of the U.S.S. Yamato in the TNG episode "Contagion"
The destruction of the U.S.S. Odyssey by Jem 'Hadar forces in the DS9 episode "The Jem'Hadar"
The destruction of the U.S.S. Enterprise (1701-D) in the film "Star Trek: Generations"
And is all honesty, it didn't appear to be a 'ship design' change per se because in the DS9 pilot episode "Emissary" even though Cmdr. Ben Sisko was First officer on the Miranda Class U.S.S. Saratoga; he did have his family with him on it during the 'Battle of Wolf 359' where his wife, Jennifer was killed (his son Jake Sisko) was aboard too; and I think it's safe to say the ship was called in from whatever deep space assignment/patrol it was on, because if it had launched from Earth with the direct expectation of entering battle with a Borg Cube; I doubt ANYONE would have brought family members on board.
Starfleet has ALWAYS served as the military and defense arm of the Federation in ADDITION to it being their deep space exploration arm, and all of their deep space cruisers have been designed with this philosophy in mind since the days of TOS. Also, if you look at Star Fleet starship development since the Borg/Wolf 359 and "Star Trek: First Contact" (feature film) encounters; it was then that they started (and IMO have continued) to build ships specifically designed for defense (like the U.S.S. Defiant from DS9; the fact that in the ST:YOY pilot, the U.S.S. Voyager was stated to now have more firepower then previous ships her size; and te fact the Sovereign Class U.S.S. Enterprise too had more firepower, new tech for that time like Quantum Torpedoes.)
Thus my point in the end: The Galaxy Class was in fact designed at a time when the Federation was making front line ships more multi-role; but after the Borg encounters, they upped the military side of things in subsequent multi-role ships and started designing more pure military defense ships. That's why then Galaxy isn't/shouldn't be as powerful in terms of firepower as the more militaristic ships made near her era (like the U.S.S. Defiant or Sovereign Class U.S.S.Enterprise 1701-E et.al.); or the modern 2409 multi-role or more strictly military ships like the Avenger Class, etc.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
yesterdays enterprise was a different situation then all the previous wars have been to the federation. the tzenkethy, cardasian, and tholions, which the federation was at war with on and off throughout the 24th century up to and during TNG, were not the threat the klingons were at this time. not even during the dominion war was federation facing such a dire situation, the federation was months away from collapsing completely, people on earth were going to have to learn klingon, assuming they didn't scorch it from orbit. so, them droping all the peace time pretext in that episode should be no surprise, they were taking the enemy as seriously as they needed too.
as for the ship, the galaxy class interior is 70% modular. that means the explorer with extensive science and diplomatic facilities, with extensive civilian support and long term deployment comfort galaxy class we know from tng is just 1 of the ways you can outfit the ship. during the dominion war, they cranked out as many galaxy hulls as they could, and left their interior mostly blank. they were basically a flying phaser array and torpedo launcher without peer in the fleet, built on the cheap. the D you see in yesterdays enterprise is nothing more then a warship, with the way it utilizes that 70% of its interior thats modular. thats all its good for, theres no luxury apartment quarters or extensive science labs, theres bunks for 6000 soldiers and what ever else a warship would need.
its a crime that the galaxy isn't a universal heavy ship, and not an eng heavy ship. they could not be more clueless about the galaxy class, the 1 ship they have no excuse to know nothing about, being the star of a 7 season show. same for the intrepid too, that should have been a tac sci hybrid with like 2 LT eng.
i should add, the 2409 klingon/federation war is nothing liek the one in yesterdays enterprise. its not nearly as 1 sided, and is much more like the cardasian wars that led up to DS9. the specialized combat ships they release in game are always due to threats greater then the fed/kdf war too.
Comments
The Sovereign was not designed to fight the Borg.
Did it have the best Starfleet tech that would be anti-Borg capable? Yes, she probably had - as you said it would be dumb to have tech availible and not use it.
However, my point was that the Sovereign was not Starfleet's answer to the Borg threat. The Sovereign was on the drawing board waaay before that and the ship would have been constructed regardless of meeting the Borg or not.
On the other hand - the Defiant is Starfleet's direct anwer to the Borg threat. If there wasn't the threat the Borg presented, it's safe to say that the Defiant design would never had existed.
I think you're missing the point a bit. Starfleet has always built ships capable of war. Like I mentioned numerous times in this thread, to send people poking around in unknown space without the ship they're on being capable for battle is kinda' TRIBBLE. They did this without becomming militant.
War doesn't mean that the Federation and/or Starfleet will suddenly turn into a full military organization. They are what they are and they'll continue to be what they are because it's the way they handle stuff and it has worked for them succesfully for hundreds of years.
And you're wrong - canon has actually shown us that the Federation would never abandon their principles, values and the way they do things in favor of militarization.
No they didn't. I have no idea where are you pulling this out of.
That's from an alternate universe. Like the Galaxy X itself.
His point is that because Starfleet was militarized in one alternate timeline it should be treated as an empiric fact that the same happens every time once they face war.
But that argument doesn't hold water: Prime timeline Starfleet faced war many times and never developed in the way it did in one quantum reality. In fact, the very same episode (if you didn't grasp the hints I gave away) Guinan states that the Enterprise is supposed to be a ship of peace. Two realities and one of it is "falsfied" in Star Trek canon. Take your pick, mattjohnsonva.
Not even in the reality the Galaxy Refit originates from we see them any more militarized than regular Starfleet.
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The Galaxy R is not that ship. The Galaxy R is the ship you see for 7 seasons. The Devs are firm on what they want its layout to be. Warship isn't what they're going for with it.
They did. Just not with the Galaxy. They evolved the Assault Cruiser (the Imperial skin, the Reagent, and the fleet Assault Cruiser). They evolved the tactical variant of the Odyssey. The Chimera and the Avenger. They just didn't evolve the Galaxy class any further in 2409. Though they still have the Galaxy R and Galaxy X performing a ton of duties and it performs them quite well. But they have other, toothier cruisers for their war effort. Why's this such an issue?
They have warships. They even fitted up a Galaxy to be a better cruiser with teeth (the fleet Galaxy X).
The Galaxy R isn't where they're focusing their warship-ness in 2409. Why is this a problem?
I think that even without the Borg, the Sovereign would have been launched with all the tactical advancements developed by Starfleet so far. There's no reason to cut the newly developed ship short of advanced tech they have.
It's just that, if there were no Borg, those tactical advancements wouldn't be anti-borg and the tech would be different, but it would still be the most advanced Starfleet has to offer at the moment.
Anyway, I was not talking about tech in general, but starships. Ofcourse that the general answer of Starfleet to the Borg threat would be implementing newly developed anti-Borg tech to all of the ships, but in terms of ships that was the Defiant. The Sovereign was just a ship that would have been released regardless, but had the benefit of installing all the newest tech due to all of that happening in-between her construction and comissioning.
Sorry, but this makes no sense to me. No sense at all.
I don't see why. We don't need to refer to an alternate timeline, Starfleet's mission NEVER changed no matter how a ridiculous of a shootout the show or movie became. Further, you are assuming that one change in a particular timeline is bound to happen in "our" timeline as well by one way or the other. But that's not what the show depicted.
Even STO lore suggests we actually are in the prime timeline and everything up to Nemesis happened exactly the way we saw it on-screen. While I disagree with it, because STOs wonky writing makes no ****ing sense, it is clear that although the game is a shooting gallery it is still the one Starfleet we know. (lol).
Further, you are assuming that all conflict in STO happens the exact same time. While we players experience all of that, it's not this way mechanically. The Klingon War is more or less resolved once you advance the storyline. The Nimbus conflict is resolved once you finished that one and so on. By the time you reach end-game you basically defeated the Borg in "into the hive", crippled the Voth in "The Breach" and the coalition now prepares to face 8472. If all of this does indeed happen within one year then our cadets become vice admirals in less than one year either and Starfleet pumps out 20 prototype/new ship classes in mass production and last but not least each fleet consists of four trillion ships and thirteen bazillion people
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Colonial operations command
Galxay exploration command
Military operations command
So yes starfleet had warships and dedicted military crews for them . thats why starfleet had many types of the same class ships...some battleships were for war...some for exploration the same for cruisers
some destroyers like the defiant were short range some like the intrepid were long range
The defiant was classified as a escort as cover to hide its true purpose from starfleets enemys and the intrepid was a destroyer not science ship...thats STO's thing
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Seems really weird though. I mean it's pretty obvious looking at the ships that do exist in 2409 STO that Starfleet has warships fit for the task of fighting wars. Just pointing to the Avenger would seem to make that "debate" pretty much end.
So yeah, you're right. In 2409 Starfleet designed warships.
None of them are the Galaxy though. Is that ok with you?
Starfleet already performs the militaries' duties. Upon the foundation of the UFP, sterfleet absorbted the militaries. It is per se a paramilitary organization tasked with everything related to space faring services, including defense. Yet, they perform these duties without the thorough militarization that our present day society appreciates. Starfleet is neither civilian nor military, it's Starfleet. The mindset is different, their representation is different and their principles are different no matter how "serious" the threat is.
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By the time the Defiant debuted, Roddenberry wasn't involved in Trek at all.
Even including JJVerse, there are no such branches you mention.
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I just think you're still missing the point. Every ship Starfleet created is a war capable ship. Every single one of those ships is singlehandedly capable of planeraty anihilation. How do you think the small-ish Intrepid managed to pull through everything unknown thrown at her in the Delta Quadrant?
Starfleet is a mix of many things. Their existence is multi-role and their responsibilities vary. They are partially the military designated to protect the Federation. They are partially the suposed evolution of NASA. They are also partially the driving body of technological advancements. And so on and on.
There is no real need in any circumistances for them to change into a full militant organization. What they do works just fine the way they do it. As I said, such attempts were shunned in canon.
Starfleet faced a war of never before seen magnitude in DS9, a war they would have probably lost without the help of the Prophets and yet they didn't abandon their principle of work and turn into something militant.
Examples such as YE are irrelevant, because it's not happeining in the prime universe and timeline. And I have serious issues taking anything Cryptic created or explained seriously.
The intrepid wasnt either ?
whats your point
Those are just ships most might be familier with as examples
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Good points
However Cryptic is so far offbase with there ship designs and the power each ship has is comical too the extream
Very little about cryptics ships and there powers dont even slightly resemble what we have all watched in the movies the series's and the GR aproved pc and board games
Cryptic STO is a alternte universes set in Funky mode lol...But its all we got so.......Thats just how it is
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
And it's design show how ridiculous Starfleet was to believe that. Want examples?:
The destruction of the U.S.S. Yamato in the TNG episode "Contagion"
The destruction of the U.S.S. Odyssey by Jem 'Hadar forces in the DS9 episode "The Jem'Hadar"
The destruction of the U.S.S. Enterprise (1701-D) in the film "Star Trek: Generations"
And is all honesty, it didn't appear to be a 'ship design' change per se because in the DS9 pilot episode "Emissary" even though Cmdr. Ben Sisko was First officer on the Miranda Class U.S.S. Saratoga; he did have his family with him on it during the 'Battle of Wolf 359' where his wife, Jennifer was killed (his son Jake Sisko) was aboard too; and I think it's safe to say the ship was called in from whatever deep space assignment/patrol it was on, because if it had launched from Earth with the direct expectation of entering battle with a Borg Cube; I doubt ANYONE would have brought family members on board.
Starfleet has ALWAYS served as the military and defense arm of the Federation in ADDITION to it being their deep space exploration arm, and all of their deep space cruisers have been designed with this philosophy in mind since the days of TOS. Also, if you look at Star Fleet starship development since the Borg/Wolf 359 and "Star Trek: First Contact" (feature film) encounters; it was then that they started (and IMO have continued) to build ships specifically designed for defense (like the U.S.S. Defiant from DS9; the fact that in the ST:YOY pilot, the U.S.S. Voyager was stated to now have more firepower then previous ships her size; and te fact the Sovereign Class U.S.S. Enterprise too had more firepower, new tech for that time like Quantum Torpedoes.)
Thus my point in the end: The Galaxy Class was in fact designed at a time when the Federation was making front line ships more multi-role; but after the Borg encounters, they upped the military side of things in subsequent multi-role ships and started designing more pure military defense ships. That's why then Galaxy isn't/shouldn't be as powerful in terms of firepower as the more militaristic ships made near her era (like the U.S.S. Defiant or Sovereign Class U.S.S.Enterprise 1701-E et.al.); or the modern 2409 multi-role or more strictly military ships like the Avenger Class, etc.
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as for the ship, the galaxy class interior is 70% modular. that means the explorer with extensive science and diplomatic facilities, with extensive civilian support and long term deployment comfort galaxy class we know from tng is just 1 of the ways you can outfit the ship. during the dominion war, they cranked out as many galaxy hulls as they could, and left their interior mostly blank. they were basically a flying phaser array and torpedo launcher without peer in the fleet, built on the cheap. the D you see in yesterdays enterprise is nothing more then a warship, with the way it utilizes that 70% of its interior thats modular. thats all its good for, theres no luxury apartment quarters or extensive science labs, theres bunks for 6000 soldiers and what ever else a warship would need.
its a crime that the galaxy isn't a universal heavy ship, and not an eng heavy ship. they could not be more clueless about the galaxy class, the 1 ship they have no excuse to know nothing about, being the star of a 7 season show. same for the intrepid too, that should have been a tac sci hybrid with like 2 LT eng.
i should add, the 2409 klingon/federation war is nothing liek the one in yesterdays enterprise. its not nearly as 1 sided, and is much more like the cardasian wars that led up to DS9. the specialized combat ships they release in game are always due to threats greater then the fed/kdf war too.