Just ignore him or better report him to the moderators that kind of trolling is punished on this forum.
He is right in a sense they aren't going to change now, they will at least want 1 round of money grubbing from this "feature" by tempting you poor JHDC owners without a JHAS to waste heaps of money on Zen store items that might contain a JHAS.
Just ignore him or better report him to the moderators that kind of trolling is punished on this forum.
He is right in a sense they aren't going to change now, they will at least want 1 round of money grubbing from this "feature" by tempting you poor JHDC owners without a JHAS to waste heaps of money on Zen store items that might contain a JHAS.
oh I fully expect them to do a JHAS release first, then when they see how it alone doesn't do much in the way of profits they may see fit to unlock them.
See what I don't get is why JHAS owners need a "reward" for having it.
Surely the JHAS is a reward in itself? It's like giving a lottery winner a golden goose because, hey, they deserve a reward for winning. What?
See what I don't get is why JHAS owners need a "reward" for having it.
Surely the JHAS is a reward in itself? It's like giving a lottery winner a golden goose because, hey, they deserve a reward for winning. What?
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
is there any way that cryptic makes the JHAS pet usefull?
its still lame like hell!!!!
no dps, its slow like a turtle,....
i hate to pay for this TRIBBLE.mad:
They do seem to stink on ice when it comes DPS and about the only thing that the Hanger Bugs have going for them is they can take quite the punch.
The Hanger Bugs should have been open to all on Tribble for testing so that the players would of had a chance to point out to Cryptic that they were near useless.
I'd like to add:
That if the Hanger Bugs had not been gated more players could have been pointing out how craptastic they were on holodeck.
Locking the Hanger pet "Advanced Jem'Hadar Attack Ship" behind a wall of requiring the direct playable Jem'Hadar Fighter is the same as locking the "Advanced Fer'Jai Frigate" behind needing a non-existent playable Fer'Jai Escort fighter.
KDF players who have the "Kar'Fi Battle Carrier" would be POed if one of their main pets, acquirable through the dil store was locked up in such a way.
Why isn't it enough to have to gain 800 lobi and then another 30+k/60+k dil?
Why push it to the extreme of requiring the most rare to get ship in the game, that you only have a chance at during Christmas?
The over all value of that pet is no where near worth forcing players to be capped off like that.
The advanced Jem hanger pet is even fewer weapons, lesser power and fewer abilities to the Advanced Fer'Jai.
The amount of weight in resources and unlock requirements to get such a thing is way to extreme and very out of balance.
It seems more like an act of testing the player bases tolerance and willingness to pay abnormal extreme amounts for something of lesser value.
Why should any klingon player get the Jem'Hadar Dreadnaught and the Playable fighter, to get the dreadnaughts hanger pets, that are lesser then the Advanced Fer'Jai Hanger Pets?
About the only value those would have is to the feds who don't have such a carrier with the ability to deploy such hanger pets. But even then, the time, energy, resources and everything else needed to make it possible for a fed to have a carrier similar to our Kar'Fi class carrier and its hanger pets... The requirements are still outrageous.
The 800 Lobi and 30k+/60k+ dil should be more then enough. That is more then it would cost for my lovely Kar'fi and her best pets, pets that are still better then the Jem'Hadar attack fighter hanger pets.
With something of that value, there are actually people who support this lock out? When the values of the ships are weight and measured, it makes no since lock out the Jem'Hadar fighter pets in this way or to argue in favor of such a lockout.
If there is a concern about the klingons not having enough stuff and the feds getting everything, then I can sympathize with that, up to a reasonable limit. We klingons do need more content and ships. But in the process we do have things the feds don't. Just about ever ship we have can cloak. Our most escortish type ship even has a bettle cloak. We have the best carrier option and best pet options for carriers. We can get carriers sooner then the feds. We even have a ship capable of siege like massive DPS. We also have Orions and their lovely outfits. All of those things, a fed can't get a hold of unless they make a klingon character.
So why the hefty lock out? It isn't like we lost anything, and isn't like they have hanger pets better then our Advanced Fer'Jai pets.
If the feds should have to pay more for their one chance at a carrier pet setup that comes similarly close, then hasn't the 800 lobi make up for that? Isn't that a suitable hold back for something that is not as strong?
The playable attack ship requirement just seems all out over kill.
If Cryptic is actually trying to push the envelop to see who will pay for this and who won't, then they are making critical mistakes in ways they won't be able to see, if all they see is financial income.
Either the mass majority of the player base will feel abused and complain enough where cryptic is forced to reconsider how to handle this hanger pet.
-or-
If it does actually succeed in gaining them a lot of money, they will have had to pull it off by using a combination of gaming addicts or innocent people to naive to realize that something is wrong with the weights and measures of this whole hanger pet problem. In which case, Cryptic and STO will draw a lot of agro from slowly rising communities against gaming addiction, as well as those who advocate gaming addiction awareness.
MMOs are under the most fire concerning gaming addiction. It is a mistake for MMO makers to push too much. Cryptic has a history of pushing too much. There is a limit, to how long something flies under the radar. The past where the idea of gaming addiction was considered ridiculous is slowly falling apart. Acceptance for the possibility slowly grows. But it grows none the less. Eventually it will become widely accepted as a real and clinical problem.
In the years to come, when that does happen, the public will look back on things like this issue of the Jem'hadar hanger pet as one of those ridiculous gaming addiction problems that should have never happened. They will look down on cryptic for such an abuse. They will look down on those who actually pay the extra and excessively ridiculous cost.
It will still take a few years to get there. But it will get there.
This mistake, among many of their other mistakes, will forever wound cryptic. As time goes on, those wounds will catch up to them. Notice the word usage, "wound" not "scare." Because these will not heal, no matter what PR campaign they try.
Child, let the adults speak. This was an interesting enough topic before you came along with your immature boasts.
Run along now.
The facts are the facts, the description was 100% clear, TOO many people bought the ship too quickly out of excitement without reading the news posts on it's stats and the requirements needed. AM I the only one that is capable of reading the news posts when Cryptic has something new to announce to us players? I cannot see any reason to show compassion for those people who are complaining about the JHDC and it's requirements. First, everyone started complaining about the JHAS, and to this date people are still complaining about that ship, and I know the people who are complaining the most are those who do NOT own the JHAS. The JHAS has been re-introduced twice since it's initial launch, you can almost predict it will come out again, so you WILL get your chance again. I got mine off the exchange from the 3rd/last time it came out, and I knew the prices were going to drop drastically, perfect time to buy.
As per your claims on my so called 'trolling', are you really that sensitive? Did I hurt your feelings? Please..... You act like this entire forum doesn't have 'trollers', and just like you can get mad and cry like little children who got spanked and post your opinions on the forum, then expect someone else with their own opinions to post as well, especially those with an a-hole-ish rebuttle.
meh he is still just one person accusing and insulting an angry mob.
I don't freaking care about his responses though i do acknowledge them.
I am still distanced from STO because of the lockaway.
Right, EXACTLY someone who finally understands **clapping**
One person, capable of moving a mob with mere words. Similar to how a criminal can move a crowd with a gun. It's almost political.
P.S. Hey you're the one who posted that thread about a console that gives you the ability to have a Polaron Lance on any Jemmy Ship.... LOL fail
Don't get butt-hurt just being honest, a 3rd dominion console is a bit much, sorry. Plus dont you think if that were to happen then ONLY JHAS owners can have a lance and then we have to see someone post a grief thread on "help mommy, the other STO players are OP'd with their lances, and I want one!! Buy it for me!!! Waaahhhh" you see where this is going?
Don't get butt-hurt just being honest, a 3rd dominion console is a bit much, sorry. Plus dont you think if that were to happen then ONLY JHAS owners can have a lance and then we have to see someone post a grief thread on "help mommy, the other STO players are OP'd with their lances, and I want one!! Buy it for me!!! Waaahhhh" you see where this is going?
aint getting butt-hurt here, ment to edit it a while back to state the JHAS lance would have been more of a power drain proc instead of sheer damage, but either way one lance burst would effing suck (look cool) but suck, a good player can make a lance burst do some decent finishing damage, but reality is, if it aint on a unimatrix ship protecting the queen then its gonna suck.
just there to provide a logical bonus which can be used on all the Jemmy ships instead of just one.
with the idea put forth there, it would at least enable those who have the JHAS to get the full bonus without having to use said bonus exlusively on the dreadnought, instead they can enjoy it on their JHAS too, throw in a visual unique to the jem'hadar ships and its all sparkly.
What you SHOULD be suggesting is for them to make the Jem'Hadar Fighter Hangar Pets go from being completely and utterly useless, to 'useful' in my opinion. I think dropping that stupid DEM for a quantum torp would be better.
OR if you want to get real crazy with your idea, why not introduce a console which transforms the JHDC into UNICRON II ........ YESSSSSSSSSSS !!!! TOTAL CARNAGE!!!!
What you SHOULD be suggesting is for them to make the Jem'Hadar Fighter Hangar Pets go from being completely and utterly useless, to 'useful' in my opinion. I think dropping that stupid DEM for a quantum torp would be better.
OR if you want to get real crazy with your idea, why not introduce a console which transforms the JHDC into UNICRON II ........ YESSSSSSSSSSS !!!! TOTAL CARNAGE!!!!
yea...see now I can understand why most are calling you a troll.
WE HAVE been COMPLAINING not WHINING about the jemmy fighters uselessness for a ******n month now, In fact half of this thread is throwing many many useful Ideas out there, one of which was the lance idea.
the main reason this thread popped up is because both the fighters and frigate pets suck.
Much of this thread debunks your "nothing but whining" accusations, we have had countless posts of people giving constructive critisism, hell I started a thread about this topic before the damn ship was even released into the game.
btw have you ever used a Lance from a Fed Dreadnought? it effing sucks balls man, does nothing to shields but a small small burst damage and that is only IF you manage to hit the target, it is basically the equivelant of hitting something with a tricobolt torp only with a three minute cooldown.
now a good player can use the lance at the right time for a finishing blast but that's about it.
if you take the time to read through every last page you'll find only the latest few who got the dreadnought long after the blogpost was on the front page are whining they didnt see it.
I saw it, I accept they did it, but I don't like it, primarily because it locks away a feature that only works on the dreadnought, one of the only unique things about said dreadnought while being called a bonus.
call me a whiner if you want, but I aint gonna call you jack s***.
What is it the Defera say, "Balance in all things?"
Sadly this game is full of imbalances that are a source of reasonable strife among players.
Factional content with Feds having far more variety then Klings.
Faction abilities, often connected to the ships them selves, though often seemingly favoring the klingons.
This isn't a balancing thing though. You would be comparing apples and oranges. The 2 don't mix, so having factional biases on them doesn't balance the game, it only makes the imbalance worse.
These statements prove their relevancy to this thread, when you actually mathematically weigh the value of the Jem'hadar Dreadnaught and the hanger pets entirely. The requirement weight of a fully functional Dreadnaught with its best intended equipment, does not mathematically justify how much you would need to have, to get it geared with the Advanced Jem'Hadar attack hanger pets.
The value of requiring the playable Jem'Hadar Attack ship on the same character as your dreadnaught is on is far too high, when that very Escort ship is the hardest to get in the entire game, only being released at certain times such as Christmas.
When you take all the reasonable facts into consideration, the stats and abilities of the dreadnaught and the Advanced Jem'Hadar attack hanger pets, it's value is almost equal to the klingons Kar'Fi Battle Carrier and its best intended hanger pets, the Advanced Fer'Jai Frigate.
If you factor in factional imbalance concerns, then the 800 Lobi Crystals for the dreadnaught, then the 30k+/60k+ dil for the Advanced Jem'Hadar attack hanger pets is more then suitable. Anything else, other then bonuses for having the Jem'Hadar attack ship, is not related to a perspective of fair and balanced game play.
If there should be an exclusive reward for owners of the playable Jem'Hadar attack escort fighter, then the hanger pets at the very rare (purple) level should be free, and a 75% discount on ultra-rare versions, topped off with an exclusive console.
That makes far more since then what is current.
But sadly, the Defera are nothing more then a fictional McGuffin made up to move the game forward...
And the balance problems that justify player complaints remain.
I never said you were a whiner, but you just started to carry on like one in that last post. Can I ask, maybe an obvious question.... I'm assuming you don't have the JHAS correct?
I never said you were a whiner, but you just started to carry on like one in that last post. Can I ask, maybe an obvious question.... I'm assuming you don't have the JHAS correct?
Had one for the past week and a half, but only because a fleetmate was abandoning sto so he gave me everything of value, btw I realize you didn't call me specifically a whiner but my views reflect that of the thread so in proxy it was aimed in said direction.
Had one for the past week and a half, but only because a fleetmate was abandoning sto so he gave me everything of value, btw I realize you didn't call me specifically a whiner but my views reflect that of the thread so in proxy it was aimed in said direction.
Ok.... so.... I don't understand. We both know all the people complaining on this thread about the ship requirements, and so you have the JHAS. So, what exactly is the issue? I can't assume there is one if you have the VERY ship needed to meet the JHAS hangar pet requirements.
Ok.... so.... I don't understand. We both know all the people complaining on this thread about the ship requirements, and so you have the JHAS. So, what exactly is the issue? I can't assume there is one if you have the VERY ship needed to meet the JHAS hangar pet requirements.
were you not paying attention to anything he said? the JAS hangar is already unique to the dreadnought; it doesn't need an additional lockout in the form of needing to own an actual JAS, especially since the hangars suck
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
were you not paying attention to anything he said? the JAS hangar is already unique to the dreadnought; it doesn't need an additional lockout in the form of needing to own an actual JAS, especially since the hangars suck
Very True.
There was no reason for the Hanger Bug to be locked away from all owners of the Dread Carrer, it was just a money grab move :mad:
The best way to deal with a Troll is to starve them and to tihink of their post has bumps for the thread.
The DEVs refuse to respond to any of the issues raised here and I think we should try reaching out to the podcasts again to see if any of them will ask any of the DEVs that they interview about this issue.
Ok.... so.... I don't understand. We both know all the people complaining on this thread about the ship requirements, and so you have the JHAS. So, what exactly is the issue? I can't assume there is one if you have the VERY ship needed to meet the JHAS hangar pet requirements.
This is why you are considered a troll, you see only one side which has no competators, and the other side with people talking intelligently as to why they locked it out and why it doesnt make sense.
I have the JHAS hangar pets now, still it sucks. They call it a bonus for the JHAS owners? I needed to have the JHAS and the JHDC to get them, that alone would be 60-70k dil, or just under 10k EC, but I can still only use this supposed bonus on my JHDC. If it were a real bonus then there would be no specific carrier requirements and it only be able to be purchased by the JHAS owners. That would be a bonus to the JHAS owners.
but the way it is now, just slapps both sides in the face, first you need to own the JHAS then the only way to use the JHAS bonus is to own the JHDC which I must either pay 70mil ec for or 800 lobi, and only then can I buy the hangar pets which can only be used on the JHDC.
if you don't understand then let this be my final response to you.
were you not paying attention to anything he said? the JAS hangar is already unique to the dreadnought; it doesn't need an additional lockout in the form of needing to own an actual JAS, especially since the hangars suck
Yes I know exactly what he said, you are being redundant because we all know the complaint is about having the JHAS to unlock the JHAS hangar pets. This has been discussed repeatedly. If you feel you need to get to the DEVs via other social media means, then by all means go ahead. I believe I have also mentioned before, also look at it as another alternative, that the devs have made the JHAS available 3 times now to the players, so you can almost guarantee that it will be available again, and instead of taking chances of buying the doff packs or maybe even in a lockbox this time, look it up on the exchange because plenty of others will get it and the prices will not be so ridiculously high. It's best to start saving up resources to all those, F2P or Subs. Other than what I mentioned, the latter is more likely to happen. I understand as well as you all do that Cryptic is trying to make money, well of course it's business. People who want things bad enough are willing to pay for it, and don't say they shouldn't have to, it's called opportunity. If you're a f2p account or a sub who just doesn't have the money outside of the game, then that's life, not all of us can afford it. Complaining doesn't necessarily get you what you want. There is alot of people who posted on this forum who don't have the JHAS and they seem to be he most aggressive in regards to this issue. Oh yes... They just won't admit that is the basis behind their argument.
No one is arguing that Cryptic is out to make money, but there such a thing as reasonable limits, which also means there is a line that can be crossed that becomes gouging and even predatory.
With something like this, Cryptic isn't targeting a casual player base, it is targeting a combination of people with some sorta disfunction and gaming addicts.
This is the kind of extreme cost and lock out associated with price gouging in the past for many other industry types and thus government agencies have stepped in and put some controls on many of those industries to prevent unfair and ridicules pricing.
You could claim that cryptic is a private company that has the right to do that and that no one is forcing you to pay for their stuff, but the phone companies are private industries as well, and the government doesn't allow phone companies to wire tap its own customers.
Gaming companies who do not realize this and hold back properly, are the kind of gaming companies who become predatory. They become the kind of company that does research on addictive behavior, not to prevent the problem, but to find ways to exploit the behavior and us it to their advantage to make more sells.
More then a century ago tobacco products and alcohol where considered perfectly ok, with no health or well being risks. Anyone who claimed that those things where bad where scoffed at, looked down upon and even ostracized from society. Now days, we know better and have the scientific data to back it up.
Gaming addiction and companies who abuse it are in that stage right now. The idea is only being recently realized by a handful, and most are rejecting the idea as nonsense.
But this Lockout issue is one of those things that would have to exploit a gaming addicts compulsion more then it exploits the desire of someone who wants something.
Most people who want this dread and its best hanger pets understand reasonable limits. They won't pay an unreasonable price to get what they want. That is why this thread is exploding with complaints. The price greatly exceeds reasonable limits.
....Most people who want this dread and its best hanger pets understand reasonable limits. They won't pay an unreasonable price to get what they want. That is why this thread is exploding with complaints. The price greatly exceeds reasonable limits.
I read your whole post. Finally, a good argument. Yes I agree, it seems very unreasonable, and I personally wouldn't pay 1/2 a billion ECs to buy a JHAS. I simple was being opportunistic when I saw the exchange prices plummet during the last promotion for the ship... I was at the right place at the right time.
Do we all really believe Cryptic is responsible for the prices of the JHAS on the exchange? Most of STO economy is player driven, though it's a bit of a joke as someone can become a multi-millionaire by buying keys and spam-selling them on the exchange for example. The rarity of the ship suggests an item of high value to potential 'swindlers' (maybe a little harsh), but those same people are selling the ships for like 1/2 a billion, which is pretty much in game extortion. it's either THAT or people are forced to buy a pile of keys or spend on zen hoping to get a ship that may never drop. Now when I got mine JHAS, I knew those same 'extortionists' would finally get a little 'payback' as lots of other people would be getting the bug and a huge pricing battle would be occurring on the exchange.
I think that cryptic does have some of the blame BUT there are players in the STO community who are trying to take advantage of other people, so everyone needs to think 'outside the box', because your very neighbour in the game may be the same person trying to bleed out your pockets.
Players placing a high value on the JHAS due to its rarity is not simply a player based phenomenon. Every economic system through out the world and its history has always placed extremely high cost on rare items. It simply is a marketing rule that has existed since humans could make economic systems. It would not have changed just because of a couple complaints.
But to require such a rare hard to get ship to unlock the dreads hanger pets as a bonus, when actually taking what that ship can do and those locked pets, placing a reasonable value on that, comparing it with other ships that exist, even taking into account factional content and ability imbalances and relevant concerns, making out a realistic value of all that, and then figuring out the value of what it currently takes to get the dread and the Advanced JHAS Hanger Pets...
The real value of the Dread and the JHAS hanger pets don't come any where close to the outrageous value to gain it, regardless of via keys, via exchange or seasonal event. Especially when you have a clearly comparable ship, the Kar'Fi Battle Carrier and its Advanced Fer'Jai Frigate as an easily comparable reference. Even if not completely equal, they are close enough the same to be a reasonable comparison to realize the value of the dread and its pets as pretty near to the 2000 zen to unlock the Kar'Fi. Any other relevant concerns make the 800 lobi within reason, and the 30k+/60k+ for the pets within reason. But not forcing the player base to require the JHAS playable ship it self to unlock the hanger pets.
Not saying there shouldn't be a bonus, because there should be a bonus to players with the JHAS, that is unlocked account wide due to the ship rarity, such as reduction in pricing for the JHAS hanger pets on the dread, and special abilities exclusive to having the playable JHAS on that account, but not the hanger pet lockout that currently exist. That value is way out of balance in extremes and does nothing more then cause this kind of strife in the board community.
This is like turning around and suddenly deciding to lock out the Advanced Fer'Jai Frigate for the Kar'Fi Battle Carrier because no one has a Fer'Jai playable ship. Klink players would be outraged. I would certainty be POed if I couldn't use my Advanced Fer'jai, because cryptic decided to lock them up like they have with the JHAS/dread requirement.
Even a decently direct comparison of the pets yields value in favor of the Fer'Jai Pets.
Though we are comparing a sci carrier vs a tact carrier that can get a console set, they both still have the same weapons slots pretty closely similar boff and console slots, and the differences are made up for in what specials they do have.
The Dread has more crew, more hull, 1 extra console slot, +5 more to aux and special console set
The Kar'Fi has stronger shields, lighter weight, faster engines and phase shifting cloaking while still able to shoot, while having better pets that have higher crit chances, more pet abilities, tri-cobolt weapons and even CC chronitons torps and aceton beam.
With good players behind each ship, it is likely the 2 ships and their pets would be closely evenly matched.
With that being the truth, it cannot possible be reasonable to lock the dreads JHAS pet behind a requirement of owning the playable JHAS.
If it was simply an honest mistake, a small over sight, it would have been changed a while back. It would have been a simply, "opps, my bad! click, click, type, type, save, corrected and done!"
Players placing a high value on the JHAS due to its rarity is not simply a player based phenomenon. Every economic system through out the world and its history has always placed extremely high cost on rare items. It simply is a marketing rule that has existed since humans could make economic systems. It would not have changed just because of a couple complaints.
But to require such a rare hard to get ship to unlock the dreads hanger pets as a bonus, when actually taking what that ship can do and those locked pets, placing a reasonable value on that, comparing it with other ships that exist, even taking into account factional content and ability imbalances and relevant concerns, making out a realistic value of all that, and then figuring out the value of what it currently takes to get the dread and the Advanced JHAS Hanger Pets...
The real value of the Dread and the JHAS hanger pets don't come any where close to the outrageous value to gain it, regardless of via keys, via exchange or seasonal event. Especially when you have a clearly comparable ship, the Kar'Fi Battle Carrier and its Advanced Fer'Jai Frigate as an easily comparable reference. Even if not completely equal, they are close enough the same to be a reasonable comparison to realize the value of the dread and its pets as pretty near to the 2000 zen to unlock the Kar'Fi. Any other relevant concerns make the 800 lobi within reason, and the 30k+/60k+ for the pets within reason. But not forcing the player base to require the JHAS playable ship it self to unlock the hanger pets.
Not saying there shouldn't be a bonus, because there should be a bonus to players with the JHAS, that is unlocked account wide due to the ship rarity, such as reduction in pricing for the JHAS hanger pets on the dread, and special abilities exclusive to having the playable JHAS on that account, but not the hanger pet lockout that currently exist. That value is way out of balance in extremes and does nothing more then cause this kind of strife in the board community.
This is like turning around and suddenly deciding to lock out the Advanced Fer'Jai Frigate for the Kar'Fi Battle Carrier because no one has a Fer'Jai playable ship. Klink players would be outraged. I would certainty be POed if I couldn't use my Advanced Fer'jai, because cryptic decided to lock them up like they have with the JHAS/dread requirement.
Even a decently direct comparison of the pets yields value in favor of the Fer'Jai Pets.
Though we are comparing a sci carrier vs a tact carrier that can get a console set, they both still have the same weapons slots pretty closely similar boff and console slots, and the differences are made up for in what specials they do have.
The Dread has more crew, more hull, 1 extra console slot, +5 more to aux and special console set
The Kar'Fi has stronger shields, lighter weight, faster engines and phase shifting cloaking while still able to shoot, while having better pets that have higher crit chances, more pet abilities, tri-cobolt weapons and even CC chronitons torps and aceton beam.
With good players behind each ship, it is likely the 2 ships and their pets would be closely evenly matched.
With that being the truth, it cannot possible be reasonable to lock the dreads JHAS pet behind a requirement of owning the playable JHAS.
If it was simply an honest mistake, a small over sight, it would have been changed a while back. It would have been a simply, "opps, my bad! click, click, type, type, save, corrected and done!"
But it hasn't gone like that...
IMO Cryptic is trying to find a way to tap into the Carrier Player Base to see if they can find any way to get us to spend some more money and the lock out of the Hanger Bugs makes me feel like I'm correct.
I can't speak much for the Fed side but it seems like 60% of the KDF players are using 2 Hanger Carriers and Cryptic would most likely see a nice bump in revenue it they could figure out a way to get us to accept having to pay extra cash just to unlock Hanger options that can only be used by the Carriers that we own.
I can't find any really logical reason at all for Cryptic to implement such a move other than to see if Carrier Pilots would be willing to pony up cash for a chance at the Bug ship just to unlock Hanger options for The Dreadnought Carrier that should have been available to somehow acquire for just owing the Carrier itself.
Carriers are really the only type of vessel in STO that this type of junk can be done with and I'm sure that we'll see Cryptic pull something close to what they're doing with the Dreadnought to the Recluse and the Breen Capitol Ship when it gets added has a player controlled ship.
I still predict that all future Carriers will have their Frigate sized Hanger Options sold on a per Character basis VIA the Lobi Store and this move with the Dreadnought was only done to get us to see that the Lobi option is better than the alternative.
I think the main reason that not one DEV has commented on this topic is because they have no possible defense against the many valid reasons that we've offered up has to why this should have never been done.
Strangely I still enjoy playing STO; however, this move with the Dreadnought upsets me to no end and it makes me wonder what else Cryptic will pull in the name of the almighty dollar.
48 pages of discussion later and no response from the slimy devs.
Should anyone be surprised that they were specifically told to say nothing in response to or in relation to the incredibly douchey JHAS stunt?
Nope.
It's simply who they are. They can't help it. Just like it would be in their nature not to help a homeless woman with a baby. In fact, they'd look around and if nobody was looking, they'd douse the pair in gasoline and light em on fire.
Because it's the kind of people they are. The honorable and honest among them were long ago buried in shallow graves by their supervisors. All that remains now are the ones that hate happiness and yell at children just so they can see them cry.
I just listened to the Podcast UGC interview with Captain Geko and I was surprised that they did not bring up the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier and its Hanger Attack Ships, it was still a pretty good interview.
Comments
He is right in a sense they aren't going to change now, they will at least want 1 round of money grubbing from this "feature" by tempting you poor JHDC owners without a JHAS to waste heaps of money on Zen store items that might contain a JHAS.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
oh I fully expect them to do a JHAS release first, then when they see how it alone doesn't do much in the way of profits they may see fit to unlock them.
Surely the JHAS is a reward in itself? It's like giving a lottery winner a golden goose because, hey, they deserve a reward for winning. What?
That was priceless
i would, but there doesn't seem to be any option to report that post
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
its still lame like hell!!!!
no dps, its slow like a turtle,....
i hate to pay for this TRIBBLE.mad:
They do seem to stink on ice when it comes DPS and about the only thing that the Hanger Bugs have going for them is they can take quite the punch.
The Hanger Bugs should have been open to all on Tribble for testing so that the players would of had a chance to point out to Cryptic that they were near useless.
I'd like to add:
That if the Hanger Bugs had not been gated more players could have been pointing out how craptastic they were on holodeck.
KDF players who have the "Kar'Fi Battle Carrier" would be POed if one of their main pets, acquirable through the dil store was locked up in such a way.
Why isn't it enough to have to gain 800 lobi and then another 30+k/60+k dil?
Why push it to the extreme of requiring the most rare to get ship in the game, that you only have a chance at during Christmas?
The over all value of that pet is no where near worth forcing players to be capped off like that.
The advanced Jem hanger pet is even fewer weapons, lesser power and fewer abilities to the Advanced Fer'Jai.
The amount of weight in resources and unlock requirements to get such a thing is way to extreme and very out of balance.
It seems more like an act of testing the player bases tolerance and willingness to pay abnormal extreme amounts for something of lesser value.
Why should any klingon player get the Jem'Hadar Dreadnaught and the Playable fighter, to get the dreadnaughts hanger pets, that are lesser then the Advanced Fer'Jai Hanger Pets?
About the only value those would have is to the feds who don't have such a carrier with the ability to deploy such hanger pets. But even then, the time, energy, resources and everything else needed to make it possible for a fed to have a carrier similar to our Kar'Fi class carrier and its hanger pets... The requirements are still outrageous.
The 800 Lobi and 30k+/60k+ dil should be more then enough. That is more then it would cost for my lovely Kar'fi and her best pets, pets that are still better then the Jem'Hadar attack fighter hanger pets.
With something of that value, there are actually people who support this lock out? When the values of the ships are weight and measured, it makes no since lock out the Jem'Hadar fighter pets in this way or to argue in favor of such a lockout.
If there is a concern about the klingons not having enough stuff and the feds getting everything, then I can sympathize with that, up to a reasonable limit. We klingons do need more content and ships. But in the process we do have things the feds don't. Just about ever ship we have can cloak. Our most escortish type ship even has a bettle cloak. We have the best carrier option and best pet options for carriers. We can get carriers sooner then the feds. We even have a ship capable of siege like massive DPS. We also have Orions and their lovely outfits. All of those things, a fed can't get a hold of unless they make a klingon character.
So why the hefty lock out? It isn't like we lost anything, and isn't like they have hanger pets better then our Advanced Fer'Jai pets.
If the feds should have to pay more for their one chance at a carrier pet setup that comes similarly close, then hasn't the 800 lobi make up for that? Isn't that a suitable hold back for something that is not as strong?
The playable attack ship requirement just seems all out over kill.
If Cryptic is actually trying to push the envelop to see who will pay for this and who won't, then they are making critical mistakes in ways they won't be able to see, if all they see is financial income.
Either the mass majority of the player base will feel abused and complain enough where cryptic is forced to reconsider how to handle this hanger pet.
-or-
If it does actually succeed in gaining them a lot of money, they will have had to pull it off by using a combination of gaming addicts or innocent people to naive to realize that something is wrong with the weights and measures of this whole hanger pet problem. In which case, Cryptic and STO will draw a lot of agro from slowly rising communities against gaming addiction, as well as those who advocate gaming addiction awareness.
MMOs are under the most fire concerning gaming addiction. It is a mistake for MMO makers to push too much. Cryptic has a history of pushing too much. There is a limit, to how long something flies under the radar. The past where the idea of gaming addiction was considered ridiculous is slowly falling apart. Acceptance for the possibility slowly grows. But it grows none the less. Eventually it will become widely accepted as a real and clinical problem.
In the years to come, when that does happen, the public will look back on things like this issue of the Jem'hadar hanger pet as one of those ridiculous gaming addiction problems that should have never happened. They will look down on cryptic for such an abuse. They will look down on those who actually pay the extra and excessively ridiculous cost.
It will still take a few years to get there. But it will get there.
This mistake, among many of their other mistakes, will forever wound cryptic. As time goes on, those wounds will catch up to them. Notice the word usage, "wound" not "scare." Because these will not heal, no matter what PR campaign they try.
Well he would ignore me but some of you just took my post JUST a tad too seriously, that's why he couldn't resist to say the following:
The facts are the facts, the description was 100% clear, TOO many people bought the ship too quickly out of excitement without reading the news posts on it's stats and the requirements needed. AM I the only one that is capable of reading the news posts when Cryptic has something new to announce to us players? I cannot see any reason to show compassion for those people who are complaining about the JHDC and it's requirements. First, everyone started complaining about the JHAS, and to this date people are still complaining about that ship, and I know the people who are complaining the most are those who do NOT own the JHAS. The JHAS has been re-introduced twice since it's initial launch, you can almost predict it will come out again, so you WILL get your chance again. I got mine off the exchange from the 3rd/last time it came out, and I knew the prices were going to drop drastically, perfect time to buy.
As per your claims on my so called 'trolling', are you really that sensitive? Did I hurt your feelings? Please..... You act like this entire forum doesn't have 'trollers', and just like you can get mad and cry like little children who got spanked and post your opinions on the forum, then expect someone else with their own opinions to post as well, especially those with an a-hole-ish rebuttle.
I stand by what I said...... Whiners
meh he is still just one person accusing and insulting an angry mob.
I don't freaking care about his responses though i do acknowledge them.
I am still distanced from STO because of the lockaway.
Right, EXACTLY someone who finally understands **clapping**
One person, capable of moving a mob with mere words. Similar to how a criminal can move a crowd with a gun. It's almost political.
P.S. Hey you're the one who posted that thread about a console that gives you the ability to have a Polaron Lance on any Jemmy Ship.... LOL fail
Don't get butt-hurt just being honest, a 3rd dominion console is a bit much, sorry. Plus dont you think if that were to happen then ONLY JHAS owners can have a lance and then we have to see someone post a grief thread on "help mommy, the other STO players are OP'd with their lances, and I want one!! Buy it for me!!! Waaahhhh" you see where this is going?
aint getting butt-hurt here, ment to edit it a while back to state the JHAS lance would have been more of a power drain proc instead of sheer damage, but either way one lance burst would effing suck (look cool) but suck, a good player can make a lance burst do some decent finishing damage, but reality is, if it aint on a unimatrix ship protecting the queen then its gonna suck.
just there to provide a logical bonus which can be used on all the Jemmy ships instead of just one.
with the idea put forth there, it would at least enable those who have the JHAS to get the full bonus without having to use said bonus exlusively on the dreadnought, instead they can enjoy it on their JHAS too, throw in a visual unique to the jem'hadar ships and its all sparkly.
What you SHOULD be suggesting is for them to make the Jem'Hadar Fighter Hangar Pets go from being completely and utterly useless, to 'useful' in my opinion. I think dropping that stupid DEM for a quantum torp would be better.
OR if you want to get real crazy with your idea, why not introduce a console which transforms the JHDC into UNICRON II ........ YESSSSSSSSSSS !!!! TOTAL CARNAGE!!!!
yea...see now I can understand why most are calling you a troll.
WE HAVE been COMPLAINING not WHINING about the jemmy fighters uselessness for a ******n month now, In fact half of this thread is throwing many many useful Ideas out there, one of which was the lance idea.
the main reason this thread popped up is because both the fighters and frigate pets suck.
Much of this thread debunks your "nothing but whining" accusations, we have had countless posts of people giving constructive critisism, hell I started a thread about this topic before the damn ship was even released into the game.
btw have you ever used a Lance from a Fed Dreadnought? it effing sucks balls man, does nothing to shields but a small small burst damage and that is only IF you manage to hit the target, it is basically the equivelant of hitting something with a tricobolt torp only with a three minute cooldown.
now a good player can use the lance at the right time for a finishing blast but that's about it.
if you take the time to read through every last page you'll find only the latest few who got the dreadnought long after the blogpost was on the front page are whining they didnt see it.
I saw it, I accept they did it, but I don't like it, primarily because it locks away a feature that only works on the dreadnought, one of the only unique things about said dreadnought while being called a bonus.
call me a whiner if you want, but I aint gonna call you jack s***.
Sadly this game is full of imbalances that are a source of reasonable strife among players.
Factional content with Feds having far more variety then Klings.
Faction abilities, often connected to the ships them selves, though often seemingly favoring the klingons.
This isn't a balancing thing though. You would be comparing apples and oranges. The 2 don't mix, so having factional biases on them doesn't balance the game, it only makes the imbalance worse.
These statements prove their relevancy to this thread, when you actually mathematically weigh the value of the Jem'hadar Dreadnaught and the hanger pets entirely. The requirement weight of a fully functional Dreadnaught with its best intended equipment, does not mathematically justify how much you would need to have, to get it geared with the Advanced Jem'Hadar attack hanger pets.
The value of requiring the playable Jem'Hadar Attack ship on the same character as your dreadnaught is on is far too high, when that very Escort ship is the hardest to get in the entire game, only being released at certain times such as Christmas.
When you take all the reasonable facts into consideration, the stats and abilities of the dreadnaught and the Advanced Jem'Hadar attack hanger pets, it's value is almost equal to the klingons Kar'Fi Battle Carrier and its best intended hanger pets, the Advanced Fer'Jai Frigate.
If you factor in factional imbalance concerns, then the 800 Lobi Crystals for the dreadnaught, then the 30k+/60k+ dil for the Advanced Jem'Hadar attack hanger pets is more then suitable. Anything else, other then bonuses for having the Jem'Hadar attack ship, is not related to a perspective of fair and balanced game play.
If there should be an exclusive reward for owners of the playable Jem'Hadar attack escort fighter, then the hanger pets at the very rare (purple) level should be free, and a 75% discount on ultra-rare versions, topped off with an exclusive console.
That makes far more since then what is current.
But sadly, the Defera are nothing more then a fictional McGuffin made up to move the game forward...
And the balance problems that justify player complaints remain.
I never said you were a whiner, but you just started to carry on like one in that last post. Can I ask, maybe an obvious question.... I'm assuming you don't have the JHAS correct?
Had one for the past week and a half, but only because a fleetmate was abandoning sto so he gave me everything of value, btw I realize you didn't call me specifically a whiner but my views reflect that of the thread so in proxy it was aimed in said direction.
Ok.... so.... I don't understand. We both know all the people complaining on this thread about the ship requirements, and so you have the JHAS. So, what exactly is the issue? I can't assume there is one if you have the VERY ship needed to meet the JHAS hangar pet requirements.
were you not paying attention to anything he said? the JAS hangar is already unique to the dreadnought; it doesn't need an additional lockout in the form of needing to own an actual JAS, especially since the hangars suck
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Very True.
There was no reason for the Hanger Bug to be locked away from all owners of the Dread Carrer, it was just a money grab move :mad:
The best way to deal with a Troll is to starve them and to tihink of their post has bumps for the thread.
The DEVs refuse to respond to any of the issues raised here and I think we should try reaching out to the podcasts again to see if any of them will ask any of the DEVs that they interview about this issue.
This is why you are considered a troll, you see only one side which has no competators, and the other side with people talking intelligently as to why they locked it out and why it doesnt make sense.
I have the JHAS hangar pets now, still it sucks. They call it a bonus for the JHAS owners? I needed to have the JHAS and the JHDC to get them, that alone would be 60-70k dil, or just under 10k EC, but I can still only use this supposed bonus on my JHDC. If it were a real bonus then there would be no specific carrier requirements and it only be able to be purchased by the JHAS owners. That would be a bonus to the JHAS owners.
but the way it is now, just slapps both sides in the face, first you need to own the JHAS then the only way to use the JHAS bonus is to own the JHDC which I must either pay 70mil ec for or 800 lobi, and only then can I buy the hangar pets which can only be used on the JHDC.
if you don't understand then let this be my final response to you.
Yes I know exactly what he said, you are being redundant because we all know the complaint is about having the JHAS to unlock the JHAS hangar pets. This has been discussed repeatedly. If you feel you need to get to the DEVs via other social media means, then by all means go ahead. I believe I have also mentioned before, also look at it as another alternative, that the devs have made the JHAS available 3 times now to the players, so you can almost guarantee that it will be available again, and instead of taking chances of buying the doff packs or maybe even in a lockbox this time, look it up on the exchange because plenty of others will get it and the prices will not be so ridiculously high. It's best to start saving up resources to all those, F2P or Subs. Other than what I mentioned, the latter is more likely to happen. I understand as well as you all do that Cryptic is trying to make money, well of course it's business. People who want things bad enough are willing to pay for it, and don't say they shouldn't have to, it's called opportunity. If you're a f2p account or a sub who just doesn't have the money outside of the game, then that's life, not all of us can afford it. Complaining doesn't necessarily get you what you want. There is alot of people who posted on this forum who don't have the JHAS and they seem to be he most aggressive in regards to this issue. Oh yes... They just won't admit that is the basis behind their argument.
With something like this, Cryptic isn't targeting a casual player base, it is targeting a combination of people with some sorta disfunction and gaming addicts.
This is the kind of extreme cost and lock out associated with price gouging in the past for many other industry types and thus government agencies have stepped in and put some controls on many of those industries to prevent unfair and ridicules pricing.
You could claim that cryptic is a private company that has the right to do that and that no one is forcing you to pay for their stuff, but the phone companies are private industries as well, and the government doesn't allow phone companies to wire tap its own customers.
Gaming companies who do not realize this and hold back properly, are the kind of gaming companies who become predatory. They become the kind of company that does research on addictive behavior, not to prevent the problem, but to find ways to exploit the behavior and us it to their advantage to make more sells.
More then a century ago tobacco products and alcohol where considered perfectly ok, with no health or well being risks. Anyone who claimed that those things where bad where scoffed at, looked down upon and even ostracized from society. Now days, we know better and have the scientific data to back it up.
Gaming addiction and companies who abuse it are in that stage right now. The idea is only being recently realized by a handful, and most are rejecting the idea as nonsense.
But this Lockout issue is one of those things that would have to exploit a gaming addicts compulsion more then it exploits the desire of someone who wants something.
Most people who want this dread and its best hanger pets understand reasonable limits. They won't pay an unreasonable price to get what they want. That is why this thread is exploding with complaints. The price greatly exceeds reasonable limits.
I read your whole post. Finally, a good argument. Yes I agree, it seems very unreasonable, and I personally wouldn't pay 1/2 a billion ECs to buy a JHAS. I simple was being opportunistic when I saw the exchange prices plummet during the last promotion for the ship... I was at the right place at the right time.
Do we all really believe Cryptic is responsible for the prices of the JHAS on the exchange? Most of STO economy is player driven, though it's a bit of a joke as someone can become a multi-millionaire by buying keys and spam-selling them on the exchange for example. The rarity of the ship suggests an item of high value to potential 'swindlers' (maybe a little harsh), but those same people are selling the ships for like 1/2 a billion, which is pretty much in game extortion. it's either THAT or people are forced to buy a pile of keys or spend on zen hoping to get a ship that may never drop. Now when I got mine JHAS, I knew those same 'extortionists' would finally get a little 'payback' as lots of other people would be getting the bug and a huge pricing battle would be occurring on the exchange.
I think that cryptic does have some of the blame BUT there are players in the STO community who are trying to take advantage of other people, so everyone needs to think 'outside the box', because your very neighbour in the game may be the same person trying to bleed out your pockets.
But to require such a rare hard to get ship to unlock the dreads hanger pets as a bonus, when actually taking what that ship can do and those locked pets, placing a reasonable value on that, comparing it with other ships that exist, even taking into account factional content and ability imbalances and relevant concerns, making out a realistic value of all that, and then figuring out the value of what it currently takes to get the dread and the Advanced JHAS Hanger Pets...
The real value of the Dread and the JHAS hanger pets don't come any where close to the outrageous value to gain it, regardless of via keys, via exchange or seasonal event. Especially when you have a clearly comparable ship, the Kar'Fi Battle Carrier and its Advanced Fer'Jai Frigate as an easily comparable reference. Even if not completely equal, they are close enough the same to be a reasonable comparison to realize the value of the dread and its pets as pretty near to the 2000 zen to unlock the Kar'Fi. Any other relevant concerns make the 800 lobi within reason, and the 30k+/60k+ for the pets within reason. But not forcing the player base to require the JHAS playable ship it self to unlock the hanger pets.
Not saying there shouldn't be a bonus, because there should be a bonus to players with the JHAS, that is unlocked account wide due to the ship rarity, such as reduction in pricing for the JHAS hanger pets on the dread, and special abilities exclusive to having the playable JHAS on that account, but not the hanger pet lockout that currently exist. That value is way out of balance in extremes and does nothing more then cause this kind of strife in the board community.
This is like turning around and suddenly deciding to lock out the Advanced Fer'Jai Frigate for the Kar'Fi Battle Carrier because no one has a Fer'Jai playable ship. Klink players would be outraged. I would certainty be POed if I couldn't use my Advanced Fer'jai, because cryptic decided to lock them up like they have with the JHAS/dread requirement.
http://www.stowiki.org/Carrier_Pets
http://www.stowiki.org/Jem%E2%80%99Hadar_Dreadnought_Carrier
http://www.stowiki.org/Kar%27Fi_Battle_Carrier
Even a decently direct comparison of the pets yields value in favor of the Fer'Jai Pets.
Though we are comparing a sci carrier vs a tact carrier that can get a console set, they both still have the same weapons slots pretty closely similar boff and console slots, and the differences are made up for in what specials they do have.
The Dread has more crew, more hull, 1 extra console slot, +5 more to aux and special console set
The Kar'Fi has stronger shields, lighter weight, faster engines and phase shifting cloaking while still able to shoot, while having better pets that have higher crit chances, more pet abilities, tri-cobolt weapons and even CC chronitons torps and aceton beam.
With good players behind each ship, it is likely the 2 ships and their pets would be closely evenly matched.
With that being the truth, it cannot possible be reasonable to lock the dreads JHAS pet behind a requirement of owning the playable JHAS.
If it was simply an honest mistake, a small over sight, it would have been changed a while back. It would have been a simply, "opps, my bad! click, click, type, type, save, corrected and done!"
But it hasn't gone like that...
IMO Cryptic is trying to find a way to tap into the Carrier Player Base to see if they can find any way to get us to spend some more money and the lock out of the Hanger Bugs makes me feel like I'm correct.
I can't speak much for the Fed side but it seems like 60% of the KDF players are using 2 Hanger Carriers and Cryptic would most likely see a nice bump in revenue it they could figure out a way to get us to accept having to pay extra cash just to unlock Hanger options that can only be used by the Carriers that we own.
I can't find any really logical reason at all for Cryptic to implement such a move other than to see if Carrier Pilots would be willing to pony up cash for a chance at the Bug ship just to unlock Hanger options for The Dreadnought Carrier that should have been available to somehow acquire for just owing the Carrier itself.
Carriers are really the only type of vessel in STO that this type of junk can be done with and I'm sure that we'll see Cryptic pull something close to what they're doing with the Dreadnought to the Recluse and the Breen Capitol Ship when it gets added has a player controlled ship.
I still predict that all future Carriers will have their Frigate sized Hanger Options sold on a per Character basis VIA the Lobi Store and this move with the Dreadnought was only done to get us to see that the Lobi option is better than the alternative.
I think the main reason that not one DEV has commented on this topic is because they have no possible defense against the many valid reasons that we've offered up has to why this should have never been done.
Strangely I still enjoy playing STO; however, this move with the Dreadnought upsets me to no end and it makes me wonder what else Cryptic will pull in the name of the almighty dollar.
Should anyone be surprised that they were specifically told to say nothing in response to or in relation to the incredibly douchey JHAS stunt?
Nope.
It's simply who they are. They can't help it. Just like it would be in their nature not to help a homeless woman with a baby. In fact, they'd look around and if nobody was looking, they'd douse the pair in gasoline and light em on fire.
Because it's the kind of people they are. The honorable and honest among them were long ago buried in shallow graves by their supervisors. All that remains now are the ones that hate happiness and yell at children just so they can see them cry.
there is your answer boys and girls
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=8584591