I think people are just under the impression the Jem'hadar sets would become god-sets since you had to pay lobi to upgrade them. Other than that, the upgrade to mk XII is fine.
No, it's because you are downgrading if you already have STF or Fleet gear so what's the point. The engine spec does not even upgrade at all, and the shield upgrade is minimal. It needs a bit more Ommpf if I am going to get my bug out of storage.
Okay not sure if this a bug or not but the mk 11 and mk 12 engine have exact same stats! No improvement what so ever.
I expected more turn rate +38 flight turn rate, a little more speed (15.1 flightspeed), +3 power to weapons, and +8.5 weapon power at low levels.
The deflector needs Structural Integrity in my opinion give it +17 of that. You know actually upgrade it by giving it another stat if not structural how about shield systems?
Shield I was thinking it would have 12% resistance to all energy damage and +12 kinetic damage resistance. Another cap modifier or regen modifier added. The crew thing is alright I guess. An idea I had for an interesting shield is give it a innate very minor reverse shield polarity like .8% of energy damage is converted to shield health. So you get hit with 4k crit and .8% of that gets turned into a 32 shield heal.
The 2 piece set bonus I was expecting it to go from 8.1% polaron damage to 9.8% polaron damage with mk 12 set.
No comment on 3 piece set, but maybe add the innate reverse shield polarity as 3 piece set.
I feel that stuff above may feel like its an actual upgrade worth 200 lobi.
Okay not sure if this a bug or not but the mk 11 and mk 12 engine have exact same stats! No improvement what so ever.
I expected more turn rate +38 flight turn rate, a little more speed (15.1 flightspeed), +3 power to weapons, and +8.5 weapon power at low levels.
The deflector needs Structural Integrity in my opinion give it +17 of that. You know actually upgrade it by giving it another stat if not structural how about shield systems?
Shield I was thinking it would have 12% resistance to all energy damage and +12 kinetic damage resistance. Another cap modifier or regen modifier added. The crew thing is alright I guess. An idea I had for an interesting shield is give it a innate very minor reverse shield polarity like .8% of energy damage is converted to shield health. So you get hit with 4k crit and .8% of that gets turned into a 32 shield heal.
The 2 piece set bonus I was expecting it to go from 8.1% polaron damage to 9.8% polaron damage with mk 12 set.
No comment on 3 piece set, but maybe add the innate reverse shield polarity as 3 piece set.
I feel that stuff above may feel like its an actual upgrade worth 200 lobi.
Good Idea: Like the increase Polaron damage. also like the reverse shield idea also. This Set feels like an insult. They just gave it a tiny tiny little bump on two of the 3 parts and changed the Eng in name only. (if thats not just a discription error and its actually the same specs as the XI, then thats a huge insult)
200 lobi for a tiny TINY percent increase in only shield and def stats, eng is the same???
Come on cryptic, pull your socks up and do what you advertised this set was suppose to be. You said it would be on par with endgame sets, it isnt at all, all you did was make a set with xii in the name thats basically it. These are not vanity items at all.
People paying alot of money for lockbox jem ships and 200 lobi for the xii set and you basically shaft them in the set that "should" be used on it for end game.
Please, stick a cap on and a regen on the shield, update the engine at least something there instead of identical to xi version.
maybe would the "disapointness" not so extremly huge, if the visuals would be compense the expected stats.
i wanted to spend lobi, but as i saw the uniform i thought "huh?" :eek:
and as i saw the increased stats i thought the same.
if i look form an other point of view, people would not continuing fleetbase or stop playing stf if there is only money needed to take a much shorter road.
But it would be a good start to give this lobi upgrades some really cool visuals.
this wouldn't hit the game/market/grind balance but would still offers something for the REAL money.
dont hit me like a donkey - these are my thoughts to this again
I gotta say I'm pretty disappointed I spent the 200 lobi on this set. I was expecting at least a cap boost on the shield and maybe a slightly higher either forward speed like the romulan set or turn speed as these engines are all about turn. I think the deflector, although not amazing either, is fine. Need a day to confirm if victory is life is working again as intended.
Engine stats fluctuate based on the level of the player using them! Seriously.... go find a Mk 1 engine and compare it to the one you're using...
anyways.... yeah, this is underwhelming. It's an upgrade to mk 12, but nothing else... not really worth it at that price tag.
Yeah, engines have a speed modifier that isn't displayed on the tooltip (perhaps it should be). Compare any two engines that are identical apart from their Mk level, they'll have the same specs, but different performance.
What a waste of precious lobi this set is. I feel sorry for those who have wasted their lobi, and those that will waste their lobi in the future because they didn't see this thread.
The ground armor is supposed to have an appropriate Jem'Hadar look to it so it might be worth it for that reason alone. Although the look is only available when the armor is equipped.
KDF apparently don't even have access to this
As an added cosmetic bonus, the upgraded version of the Jem?Hadar Personal Armor will now also come with a different default costume overlay that will more closely resemble the garb worn by Jem?Hadar soldiers. While not a true costume option, Federation players can display this cosmetic option simply by choosing the ?Show Visuals? option on their personal armor, with the item equipped. Most Federation Bridge Officers will also be able to display this unique armor overlay.
I think people are just under the impression the Jem'hadar sets would become god-sets since you had to pay lobi to upgrade them. Other than that, the upgrade to mk XII is fine.
I do not want a god-mode set, I simply want a better set... better enough to tell that th-
e mkXII is a upgraded mkXI set. Actually the difference is so little that there is no difference: the deflector just give a +2 to the 4 skills (nothing at all), the engine seems the same and the shield just +200 capacity. The only little gain is a +0.7% polaron damage of the 2 piece set.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
PvPers and PvEers have shared interests up to a point. But when you balance for PvP without segregating mechanics, you categorically pit yourself in opposition to other players, no matter how well intentioned.
No, you have many good examples of the possibility to balance something for both aspects of the game. The JH HEC is a good example of this. It's a good ship with a great BO layout (if you know how to fit a ship properly though). The Jem'hadar dreadnought is a PvE toy only, and not a good one. Not that it's not pay to win but it can't work with the current game mechanics.
The Space set has never been an endgame set, it's still not an endgame set and the stats improvements are on par with the other Mk XII sets. Now it's closer to an endgame set but definitely not an "I win" button and has been designed to be used for more DPS on Jem'hadar ships only. In this case, it's because the players have very littke knowledge about the game's mechanic if they thought this set was be useful on any other kind ship.
The ground set was a good pvp set, now it's even better, but it's still not a STF set. It's never been one and it's always been lame in STFs. There are other opportunities to use it though: fleet actions (it should be ok there), fleetmark ground instances (ditto), and so on.
It's definitely possible to blame cryptic for hiding stats and set bonuses on the lobi store, because it doesn't allow players to take the right decisions, but the tooltip is clear, it's an improved version of the current sets. Their purposes don't change. In which situations these sets can be useful too.
If you except the Jem'hadar dreadnought carrier, this lockbox has some flaws but is a really good one. You have a good lockbox ship with a great costume, a good non-stf ground set and a space set designed to be used on your jem'hadar ship. That's called synergy, not "lack of value for your money".
I'm still pondering what to do, and i'm really interested in the heavy escort carrier. I think many people are. It's just not an "omg i win" button and it's good to see that this lockbox is on par with the previous ones, because i would hate to be forced to buy every new ship because it's superior to my very first lockbox ship, the galor, which is my reference to say if it's OP, on par with current ships, or lame. If LB ships are more and more powerful lockbox after lockbox i think many people will reject the system too, which is completely legitimate.
People saying that the ground set isn't OP enough also forget that the current upgrade price is the price of a regular costume, which is the real purpose of this upgrade IMO, even if cryptic could make this clearer. It's not customizable though, which is sad.
BTW if they keep releasing even more powerful toys they just kill their own game on the long term, because pve has to be somewhat challenging to remain a good experience. PvE is currently extremely easy and the "OP" cursor can't be pushed too far unless you want people getting bored with all the current content quickly.
This is where Jeremy is going TRON on behalf of PvPers. And it's great to have a developer in players' corner but the problem is that going to bat for PvPers is an approach that always winds up reducing surplus for another segment of the playerbase. In this case, paying customers.
And this is why (once again) I will point out that if they put in the hard work and create a separate skill/equipment tree for PVP , this would not happen -- because in that case you could sell (non game changing) gear for PVP and sell "uber" gear for PVE .
As in : The Jemmy MkXII set would have these stats for PVP , but would have better stats for PVE -- stats that the "paying costumers" would be thrilled with .
So once again -- plz try to make this happen Cryptic .
Yep, that's in my opinion the real insult when in comes to this set, and you only get this information when you have read the blog entry closely. The ground sets description doesn't say that it gives it visuals ONLY to feds. It should be an unlockable costume for ALL characters of both factions which can be altered and combined with other costumes at the tailor.
I too feel the set was a let down, I wasn't expecting massive boosts but the engine not having any at all was a huge let down hopefully its an error but I won't hold my breath
No, it's because you are downgrading if you already have STF or Fleet gear so what's the point. The engine spec does not even upgrade at all, and the shield upgrade is minimal. It needs a bit more Ommpf if I am going to get my bug out of storage.
The upgraded JH sets are not meant for people who already have Mk12 Maco/Omega sets.
It is a way for peeps who do not have stf sets, to get a Mk12 set.
Engine stats fluctuate based on the level of the player using them! Seriously.... go find a Mk 1 engine and compare it to the one you're using...
This.
Can't believe people haven't yet found out, engines don't get better with their mark, unless they come with a different bonus of some kind (like a bonus to some skill, on reman engines).
And speaking of other little changes: Did you ever notice how small the change is between a Mk XI MACO shield and the Mk XII one? Well, why would you get more on the Jem'hadar shield?
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Welcome to STO, Lobi store is overpriced. C-Store lost its value to PWE, Zen are pretty easy to come by,so came the Lobi store.
When (if) Lobi crystals abound, a new store will appear.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
This is one reason why I never bother upgrading some of these sets to XI or XII because there is no justification in the stats for the requirements imposed on the person trying to get them. If Cryptic wants people to go after them they need to quit doing this massive nerf or low statting to begin with and then trying to make boat loads of money off of no improvement or very little.
This first happened with the orion ship we had interceptors built into the orion marauder and then they took those away from that ship making ppl who paid for it have to pay something else just to reobtain what they already have. Then they said well you can get slavers for free instead which then they turned around and put d-store ones up that they said would be more beneficial to buy but yet I can only get like maybe 2 contraband a month out of them. Yea I'm not an advocate of this give you one thing and then make you re-grind it to get it again or like this jem hadar set that costs tons of lobi but yet no boost for that.
He is not advocating anything. This isn't a free game set, it cost us cash and we expect something comperable to the investment.
Once we get it, what do we see?
That what we thought was going to make a sizable difference is really nothing special.
That there was no substanial visual upgrade for social status.
That would rather have the Lobi back and they can keep the existing MK XI sets we lost. We will just grind another set and call it fair enough.
That we were taken advantage of.
We can see that they went through a lot of trouble designing these sets so they stay under Aegis, MACO, and Omega. What I don't understand is why. This set didn't come grinding, this set didn't come from mission running, the crafting system, or a reputation system. It came from our wallets with direct purchase for as many keys as it took me to get to 200 Lobi.
I really expected more, but the saddest part is that I don't know why...
I really expected more, but the saddest part is that I don't know why...
Let's make it clear then. If the devs bring pay to win to the game, it will be even easier. The game is incredibly easy. More OP sets would mean that they need to make PvE tougher, which would require a lot of work and improved free gear anyway, or it would mean leaving it as it is and see people quitting the game just because they have no challenge to overcome, nothing else/better they can get by playing the game.
What happens when you put the best gear in stores? People buy it, they enjoy it for a month maybe and then see that they have nothing to do, that the free stuff will remain inferior, that endgame content is boring thanks to "i win button" and slowly quit playing. This isn't a good strategy IMO.
Asking for better stats isn't reasonable because Cryptic can do this but it means killing the game or making tremendous efforts for a very small revenue. Balancing a game around new gear and new ships won't take a week or so...
Insead the price could be lowered on such sets in the future if people don't buy it and explain why on the forums. Of course if it's just nerdrage and whines don't expect anything but if you start thinking that if it's not worth it you won't buy it then it's ok and the store will be improved (at least if enough people don't buy the stuff).
That's what happened with keys yesterday, people said politely and with many arguments that the tactical carrier was a pure TRIBBLE on the forums, and ta-dah, a key sale happened a day after.
Comments
I second this opinion.
I was looking forward to upgrading the space set - even considering going back to re-acquire the ground set for my Jem boff.
Not now. Not ever. What a waste of money
Admiral Thrax
No, it's because you are downgrading if you already have STF or Fleet gear so what's the point. The engine spec does not even upgrade at all, and the shield upgrade is minimal. It needs a bit more Ommpf if I am going to get my bug out of storage.
That's why i would like to know if the tooltip is bugged or not...
In every place,
The deeds of men remain the same..."
I expected more turn rate +38 flight turn rate, a little more speed (15.1 flightspeed), +3 power to weapons, and +8.5 weapon power at low levels.
The deflector needs Structural Integrity in my opinion give it +17 of that. You know actually upgrade it by giving it another stat if not structural how about shield systems?
Shield I was thinking it would have 12% resistance to all energy damage and +12 kinetic damage resistance. Another cap modifier or regen modifier added. The crew thing is alright I guess. An idea I had for an interesting shield is give it a innate very minor reverse shield polarity like .8% of energy damage is converted to shield health. So you get hit with 4k crit and .8% of that gets turned into a 32 shield heal.
The 2 piece set bonus I was expecting it to go from 8.1% polaron damage to 9.8% polaron damage with mk 12 set.
No comment on 3 piece set, but maybe add the innate reverse shield polarity as 3 piece set.
I feel that stuff above may feel like its an actual upgrade worth 200 lobi.
Good Idea: Like the increase Polaron damage. also like the reverse shield idea also. This Set feels like an insult. They just gave it a tiny tiny little bump on two of the 3 parts and changed the Eng in name only. (if thats not just a discription error and its actually the same specs as the XI, then thats a huge insult)
Come on cryptic, pull your socks up and do what you advertised this set was suppose to be. You said it would be on par with endgame sets, it isnt at all, all you did was make a set with xii in the name thats basically it. These are not vanity items at all.
People paying alot of money for lockbox jem ships and 200 lobi for the xii set and you basically shaft them in the set that "should" be used on it for end game.
Please, stick a cap on and a regen on the shield, update the engine at least something there instead of identical to xi version.
i wanted to spend lobi, but as i saw the uniform i thought "huh?" :eek:
and as i saw the increased stats i thought the same.
if i look form an other point of view, people would not continuing fleetbase or stop playing stf if there is only money needed to take a much shorter road.
But it would be a good start to give this lobi upgrades some really cool visuals.
this wouldn't hit the game/market/grind balance but would still offers something for the REAL money.
dont hit me like a donkey - these are my thoughts to this again
anyways.... yeah, this is underwhelming. It's an upgrade to mk 12, but nothing else... not really worth it at that price tag.
My character Tsin'xing
the jem'hadar mk XII space set is simply the same of the mk XI version...
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Yeah, engines have a speed modifier that isn't displayed on the tooltip (perhaps it should be). Compare any two engines that are identical apart from their Mk level, they'll have the same specs, but different performance.
KDF apparently don't even have access to this
I'd put it in the Dill store for 8K Dill.
I do not want a god-mode set, I simply want a better set... better enough to tell that th-
e mkXII is a upgraded mkXI set. Actually the difference is so little that there is no difference: the deflector just give a +2 to the 4 skills (nothing at all), the engine seems the same and the shield just +200 capacity. The only little gain is a +0.7% polaron damage of the 2 piece set.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
No, you have many good examples of the possibility to balance something for both aspects of the game. The JH HEC is a good example of this. It's a good ship with a great BO layout (if you know how to fit a ship properly though). The Jem'hadar dreadnought is a PvE toy only, and not a good one. Not that it's not pay to win but it can't work with the current game mechanics.
The Space set has never been an endgame set, it's still not an endgame set and the stats improvements are on par with the other Mk XII sets. Now it's closer to an endgame set but definitely not an "I win" button and has been designed to be used for more DPS on Jem'hadar ships only. In this case, it's because the players have very littke knowledge about the game's mechanic if they thought this set was be useful on any other kind ship.
The ground set was a good pvp set, now it's even better, but it's still not a STF set. It's never been one and it's always been lame in STFs. There are other opportunities to use it though: fleet actions (it should be ok there), fleetmark ground instances (ditto), and so on.
It's definitely possible to blame cryptic for hiding stats and set bonuses on the lobi store, because it doesn't allow players to take the right decisions, but the tooltip is clear, it's an improved version of the current sets. Their purposes don't change. In which situations these sets can be useful too.
If you except the Jem'hadar dreadnought carrier, this lockbox has some flaws but is a really good one. You have a good lockbox ship with a great costume, a good non-stf ground set and a space set designed to be used on your jem'hadar ship. That's called synergy, not "lack of value for your money".
I'm still pondering what to do, and i'm really interested in the heavy escort carrier. I think many people are. It's just not an "omg i win" button and it's good to see that this lockbox is on par with the previous ones, because i would hate to be forced to buy every new ship because it's superior to my very first lockbox ship, the galor, which is my reference to say if it's OP, on par with current ships, or lame. If LB ships are more and more powerful lockbox after lockbox i think many people will reject the system too, which is completely legitimate.
People saying that the ground set isn't OP enough also forget that the current upgrade price is the price of a regular costume, which is the real purpose of this upgrade IMO, even if cryptic could make this clearer. It's not customizable though, which is sad.
BTW if they keep releasing even more powerful toys they just kill their own game on the long term, because pve has to be somewhat challenging to remain a good experience. PvE is currently extremely easy and the "OP" cursor can't be pushed too far unless you want people getting bored with all the current content quickly.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
And this is why (once again) I will point out that if they put in the hard work and create a separate skill/equipment tree for PVP , this would not happen -- because in that case you could sell (non game changing) gear for PVP and sell "uber" gear for PVE .
As in : The Jemmy MkXII set would have these stats for PVP , but would have better stats for PVE -- stats that the "paying costumers" would be thrilled with .
So once again -- plz try to make this happen Cryptic .
Yep, that's in my opinion the real insult when in comes to this set, and you only get this information when you have read the blog entry closely. The ground sets description doesn't say that it gives it visuals ONLY to feds. It should be an unlockable costume for ALL characters of both factions which can be altered and combined with other costumes at the tailor.
The upgraded JH sets are not meant for people who already have Mk12 Maco/Omega sets.
It is a way for peeps who do not have stf sets, to get a Mk12 set.
That's how I view it anyways....
This.
Can't believe people haven't yet found out, engines don't get better with their mark, unless they come with a different bonus of some kind (like a bonus to some skill, on reman engines).
And speaking of other little changes: Did you ever notice how small the change is between a Mk XI MACO shield and the Mk XII one? Well, why would you get more on the Jem'hadar shield?
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
So you are advocating pure p2w?
I just want to make sure.......
Welcome to STO, Lobi store is overpriced. C-Store lost its value to PWE, Zen are pretty easy to come by,so came the Lobi store.
When (if) Lobi crystals abound, a new store will appear.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
This first happened with the orion ship we had interceptors built into the orion marauder and then they took those away from that ship making ppl who paid for it have to pay something else just to reobtain what they already have. Then they said well you can get slavers for free instead which then they turned around and put d-store ones up that they said would be more beneficial to buy but yet I can only get like maybe 2 contraband a month out of them. Yea I'm not an advocate of this give you one thing and then make you re-grind it to get it again or like this jem hadar set that costs tons of lobi but yet no boost for that.
He is not advocating anything. This isn't a free game set, it cost us cash and we expect something comperable to the investment.
Once we get it, what do we see?
That what we thought was going to make a sizable difference is really nothing special.
That there was no substanial visual upgrade for social status.
That would rather have the Lobi back and they can keep the existing MK XI sets we lost. We will just grind another set and call it fair enough.
That we were taken advantage of.
We can see that they went through a lot of trouble designing these sets so they stay under Aegis, MACO, and Omega. What I don't understand is why. This set didn't come grinding, this set didn't come from mission running, the crafting system, or a reputation system. It came from our wallets with direct purchase for as many keys as it took me to get to 200 Lobi.
I really expected more, but the saddest part is that I don't know why...
Let's make it clear then. If the devs bring pay to win to the game, it will be even easier. The game is incredibly easy. More OP sets would mean that they need to make PvE tougher, which would require a lot of work and improved free gear anyway, or it would mean leaving it as it is and see people quitting the game just because they have no challenge to overcome, nothing else/better they can get by playing the game.
What happens when you put the best gear in stores? People buy it, they enjoy it for a month maybe and then see that they have nothing to do, that the free stuff will remain inferior, that endgame content is boring thanks to "i win button" and slowly quit playing. This isn't a good strategy IMO.
Asking for better stats isn't reasonable because Cryptic can do this but it means killing the game or making tremendous efforts for a very small revenue. Balancing a game around new gear and new ships won't take a week or so...
Insead the price could be lowered on such sets in the future if people don't buy it and explain why on the forums. Of course if it's just nerdrage and whines don't expect anything but if you start thinking that if it's not worth it you won't buy it then it's ok and the store will be improved (at least if enough people don't buy the stuff).
That's what happened with keys yesterday, people said politely and with many arguments that the tactical carrier was a pure TRIBBLE on the forums, and ta-dah, a key sale happened a day after.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Anybody get it?
I can't find stats on it.
Any extra powers besides the pol + insl + anti pro. sweep?
Thanks,
another thread here - http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=524761
RachelJ88