I just wish I'd frapsed some of the games and tests I've been in after friends hit Tier 4 because honestly, all bad feelings aside, it's pretty hilarious.
I'm still relatively new to STO, started around 3 weeks ago but I like to think I'm a fast learner. Played SWG for around 7 years and unfortunatly abit of swtor for a few months but fancied a change of scenery and this was it.
I've enjoyed the game alot while leveling up (surprised a little how fast we are able to level up with mirror universe but anyway..) I mostly did PvE while grinding up, although I'm an avid fan of PvP in most MMo's I play I still like the PvE side but decided I didn't want to head into PvP on this game untill I reached level 50 and with some decent gear to hopefully not fully embaress myself.
I got to 50 and then realised I unlocked the reputation system and was learning more about set pieces and there added bonuse's, I must admit I had to re-read the tier 4 passive abilitys on the reputation systems a few times because even for a new player I thought surely that would make us very over powered if you add that with the bonuse's of some of the set pieces.
After reading every page posted here and some of the added maths people have contributed with the obvious shocking placate video aswell it seems I was right to be concerned which is what brought me here, to see if I could find out more information regarding the rep system and the added fact that while now enjoying PvP, I noticed I went from last week doing generally not to bad to this week noticing more players appearing near on impossible to even dent there shields or get a lock on them at all.
I'm glad I've had my worries put at ease knowing a nerf is due and the open playing field will be once again that slight bit fairer on the whole but I guess the worry is how this even went live knowing that a test centre is active for content before it gets pushed out.
Things still blow up in the queues, and the game is still Escorts Online (or rather, CRF online).
Yes, it should (and will) be berfed for a better gameplay experience, but it is not game-breaking.
i kinda doubt your cat box or regent or whatever you fly has all that much killing power anyway, so im sure you haven't noticed much of a difference.
if i que up again it will be to fraps the insanity. i know its insane just from how much incoming fire i can take, just a vid of me not even having to rotat my shields, or cycle any shield heals, and still be invincible should be obvious enough.
to say this isn't game breaking is hilarious, the shields are no longer a concern. i could drop all my shield heals for something else and it wouldn't mater.
Yes, be personal. Attack the messenger, not the message. That will convince people.
Have you actually, you know, tried it out in a real queue?
I tried that in the queues. You should, too.
No offense, man, but you're leagues below drunk in terms of understanding of the game and playing ability.
If he says it's broken, it's broken. It's not just him but other PvPers that say the same thing. Anyone looking at the numbers can understand that it is broken.
Escorts Online, CRF online....... Somebody get the complaints straight. Pick a fixed point of reference becuase everytime someone disproves the current incorrect point, you all just pick a new one to rally behind that still makes less sense.
So it's ok for you to attack the messenger? More hypocrisy. I thought after you were backed into a corner in your PvP Culture thread you were going to stop being an antagonistic hypocrite. More of the same.
The thing is, if you actually do consider what drunk writes here, it includes guides, helpful advice, and accurate gameplay mechanic breakdowns. So by all means, let's consider the character, contribution, and overall post content of you and drunk when deciding who we should believe. So maybe it's not attacking the messenger, it's verifying credibility.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
and for the record pvp players to do testing for the devs..that a load of horse sh#t..pvpers dont work for cryptic..you dont work for pw so enough of the bull..thats all i have to say im done listening to the pvp babies talk
and for the record pvp players to do testing for the devs..that a load of horse sh#t..pvpers dont work for cryptic..you dont work for pw so enough of the bull..thats all i have to say im done listening to the pvp babies talk
You are right, it is a bunch of bull that testers aren't paid or even recognized. Those helpful PvP'ers who make repro vids and post logs and, the stuff of legend that should really have shamed Cryptic, supplied parsed and graphed longitudinal data detailing ability frequency.
I'm glad you finally see that it's horse **** that these people don't get paid by Cryptic, can I count on a contribution from you for a kickstarter to that end?
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
and for the record pvp players to do testing for the devs..that a load of horse sh#t..pvpers dont work for cryptic..you dont work for pw so enough of the bull..thats all i have to say im done listening to the pvp babies talk
Its sad to see these sorts of posts...I mean my eight year olds use of grammar is better.
What did punctuation do to you ?
In all seriousness who is do you think does test things for Cryptic... based on this latest major TRIBBLE up, your choices are; No one at all, or the worst employee in the world.
and for the record pvp players to do testing for the devs..that a load of horse sh#t..pvpers dont work for cryptic..you dont work for pw so enough of the bull..thats all i have to say im done listening to the pvp babies talk
All those PvP'ers who have ever checked out any proposed changes to the game and tested them on Tribble check in so the Cap'in up here can see.
I will go first. I have tested many things on Tribble. check.
I apoligise for my presumption in doing so. I was only trying to stay ahead of the learning curve so I would have no reasons to ***** without due cause.
Yes, be personal. Attack the messenger, not the message. That will convince people.
Have you actually, you know, tried it out in a real queue?
I tried that in the queues. You should, too.
soph, ive blown you up so quick you proboly didn't even notice it was me. and your score board numbers painted an accurate picture for me regarding your ships and skill. im not trying to be mean, but i honestly think you wouldn't be able to perceive the difference fully.
i went from being able to manhandle 90% of everyone i faced, to nearly not being able to kill anyone with the passives by myself. and i tend to run just about the most punishing bleed builds possible.
yes, for christ sake i have tried it out in the ques, i pvp all the time. i made mention of what actually happens in the games i played. my ships have the passives too, theres no need to wonder about the other guy, i can see just how unkillable MY ship is.
is Karl Rove your mentor? are you trying to attack my strengths? good luck with that, 2 people have already steeped up to defend my credibility. in game i am pm'ed thanks every day by someone for my insightful posts, guide and builds, and i have great conversations with these folks and give all of them 1 on 1 help if they want it. some folks just pm me to say they lurk the forums and agree with every thing i say. does anyone do that to you?
and for the record pvp players to do testing for the devs..that a load of horse sh#t..pvpers dont work for cryptic..you dont work for pw so enough of the bull..thats all i have to say im done listening to the pvp babies talk
I'd post links where PvPers have done testing and Devs stating they require detail testing before they'll take feedback seriously, but you wouldn't read it anyway. I could even find an old STOked episode regarding the shield swapping exploit that lingered for a year or more before a Dev was shamed into acknowledging it was actually a real bug.
You keep saying you're done and you keep returning and then tossing out unfounded opinions and insults. Are you a glutten for punishment or something?
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
They can call it a "bug" but I do not believe that is the case at all. I really think the passives were MEANT to be powerful, its why the Borg were buffed for S7.
Naturally in typical Cryptic fashion it was poorly thought out and we ended up with passives that make cruiser tanks out of T1 Connies (a humorous exageration).
They can call it a "bug" but I do not believe that is the case at all. I really think the passives were MEANT to be powerful, its why the Borg were buffed for S7.
The tooltip says it is supposed to tick every 6s. But it ticks every 1s.
Sure, you can go for cryptic's usual explanation of "it's a display error", but do you really belive that?
The tooltip says it is supposed to tick every 6s. But it ticks every 1s.
Sure, you can go for cryptic's usual explanation of "it's a display error", but do you really belive that?
Not at all, if anything they probably intended for it to proc every second. Hence why they upgraded to Borg to "incentivize" players into the Omega rep hamster wheel... they were probably afraid that the mk 12 STF sets were not enough on their own so they made the passives exceedingly OP. They probably felt the Rom rep was even shakier without MK 12 costume options so it too got a questionable passive.
Personally I'm highly concerned that the nerfs will make the passives obsolete, or so low that they aren't even worthy of Tier 4. It takes a lot of resources and time to reach T4, and people should be appropriately rewarded. Yes, if you choose the Omega Shield Regen, you SHOULD have a significant advantage over players who don't have it. That's the point, isn't it? Just like any of the Reputation rewards...
If Cryptic nerfs the shield down to say, 200-600 every 6 seconds, it will be effectively useless. I can attest that even as it stands now, I am NOT invulnerable, nor have I encountered any who are. Especially in Elite STFs where you can still be easily 1-hit.
In PVP, all it takes is a concentrated burst to take out one shield facing and you can swat an escort like a fly. As far as cruisers go, I am in agreement with what someone else wrote: you actually feel like a cruiser! It takes some of the the already exaggerated edge off of flying a tactical ship when your cruiser can actually hold it's own against an escort...
And the Romulan reputation reward? It's already so short that I see no point to even having it...if Cryptic adds a timer between placates, it too will become absolutely useless (unless they up the placate duration of course).
Frankly, if you want to balance the Omega T4 rep, make it's counterpart, the Kinetic damage proc, have a reasonable proc rate so as to cancel out the benefit of the quick shield regen (frankly, 2.5% comes far too infrequently to be useful...I think someone did the math and it was like an additional 40 damage per minute, or something outrageously low...)
Bottom line:
Don't nerf the shields and make it unworthy of T4, boost it's antithesis passive and make the Kinetic shield-bypass proc more frequent!
Make the placate less frequent, but longer. Don't overkill it by adding a placate resistance.
Personally I'm highly concerned that the nerfs will make the passives obsolete, or so low that they aren't even worthy of Tier 4. It takes a lot of resources and time to reach T4, and people should be appropriately rewarded. Yes, if you choose the Omega Shield Regen, you SHOULD have a significant advantage over players who don't have it. That's the point, isn't it? Just like any of the Reputation rewards...
This is a really slippery slope... you can use this to justify locking players out of ships, out of weapons, out of extra skill points, etc. etc. I guess there's always going to be differing opinions but I don't imagine many will get behind a gated system that ties PvE success so intimately into PvP.
you SHOULD have a significant advantage over players who don't have it. That's the point, isn't it? Just like any of the Reputation rewards...
Why does it have to be significant? Why can't it be a slight advantage?
And if it were to provide a significant advantage, then the kinetic proc should provide a significant advantage as well - no? Each should provide a balanced significant advantage if that is the case...
The kinetic proc:
2.5% energy and 5% torp/mine to do 751.4 damage direct to the hull.
The shield passive should be balanced against that, no?
What's the value of hull vs. shields?
What's the average number of procs that can occur within a 6s period?
This is a really slippery slope... you can use this to justify locking players out of ships, out of weapons, out of extra skill points, etc. etc. I guess there's always going to be differing opinions but I don't imagine many will get behind a gated system that ties PvE success so intimately into PvP.
I don't quite see your point. It's not as though anything is locked out... Each passive is freely available after a little hard work and dedication.
Why does it have to be significant? Why can't it be a slight advantage?
And if it were to provide a significant advantage, then the kinetic proc should provide a significant advantage as well - no? Each should provide a balanced significant advantage if that is the case...
The kinetic proc:
2.5% energy and 5% torp/mine to do 751.4 damage direct to the hull.
The shield passive should be balanced against that, no?
What's the value of hull vs. shields?
What's the average number of procs that can occur within a 6s period?
That should be the value for the shields, no?
It's Tier 4. Significantly away from tier 1, that's why it should be significant. I don't think a slight advantage over someone who hasn't invested the significant resources and time into the rep system is fair. But I agree that the powers should be balanced to each-other, so buff the kinetic proc...
If it's only a little hard work, why are you so bothered at the prospect of a "nerf"?
"Little" was a figure of speech. It's a significant investment and should reward significantly. Perhaps not quite as significantly as it does, but anything more than a 25% decrease in efficacy of any of the passives would be too much.
It's Tier 4. Significantly away from tier 1, that's why it should be significant. I don't think a slight advantage over someone who hasn't invested the significant resources and time into the rep system is fair. But I agree that the powers should be balanced to each-other, so buff the kinetic proc...
It's 60k rep. You can get 2800 rep every 20 hours. It's 17-21 days. The passive is not the sole reward for hitting T4. That investment might only be for the passive if that's your choice, but T4 also provides the following opportunities:
Store Unlock Projects: Borg Arm Mk XII, Anti-Borg Consumables
Gear Projects: Omega Torp, MACO/Omega/KHG Space Set Mk XI
Also, you can't get to T5 without going through T4.
So the "investment for T4" is not solely about the passive.
As for the investment? You can run a single Infected Elite each day and you'll not only have more Marks than you need for each pair of daily projects, but you'll also be saving some up along the way. From T3-T4 is around 100k a day... which isn't much in the least.
So that investment is somewhere between 8.5-21 hours or so?
Just because it's timegated and is going to take a "long" time to get it done - doesn't mean that it's actually taking a lot of time.
Course, when you try to do it on four toons - both Omega and Romulan - well, it starts to feel like work. There's folks out there trying to do it with 6, 8, 10+ toons.
I've actually slacked off - was running all four and it's pretty much down to one - just running all four for the Chel Grett races.
Comments
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
I've enjoyed the game alot while leveling up (surprised a little how fast we are able to level up with mirror universe but anyway..) I mostly did PvE while grinding up, although I'm an avid fan of PvP in most MMo's I play I still like the PvE side but decided I didn't want to head into PvP on this game untill I reached level 50 and with some decent gear to hopefully not fully embaress myself.
I got to 50 and then realised I unlocked the reputation system and was learning more about set pieces and there added bonuse's, I must admit I had to re-read the tier 4 passive abilitys on the reputation systems a few times because even for a new player I thought surely that would make us very over powered if you add that with the bonuse's of some of the set pieces.
After reading every page posted here and some of the added maths people have contributed with the obvious shocking placate video aswell it seems I was right to be concerned which is what brought me here, to see if I could find out more information regarding the rep system and the added fact that while now enjoying PvP, I noticed I went from last week doing generally not to bad to this week noticing more players appearing near on impossible to even dent there shields or get a lock on them at all.
I'm glad I've had my worries put at ease knowing a nerf is due and the open playing field will be once again that slight bit fairer on the whole but I guess the worry is how this even went live knowing that a test centre is active for content before it gets pushed out.
i kinda doubt your cat box or regent or whatever you fly has all that much killing power anyway, so im sure you haven't noticed much of a difference.
if i que up again it will be to fraps the insanity. i know its insane just from how much incoming fire i can take, just a vid of me not even having to rotat my shields, or cycle any shield heals, and still be invincible should be obvious enough.
to say this isn't game breaking is hilarious, the shields are no longer a concern. i could drop all my shield heals for something else and it wouldn't mater.
No offense, man, but you're leagues below drunk in terms of understanding of the game and playing ability.
If he says it's broken, it's broken. It's not just him but other PvPers that say the same thing. Anyone looking at the numbers can understand that it is broken.
R.I.P
This guy: So it's ok for you to attack the messenger? More hypocrisy. I thought after you were backed into a corner in your PvP Culture thread you were going to stop being an antagonistic hypocrite. More of the same.
The thing is, if you actually do consider what drunk writes here, it includes guides, helpful advice, and accurate gameplay mechanic breakdowns. So by all means, let's consider the character, contribution, and overall post content of you and drunk when deciding who we should believe. So maybe it's not attacking the messenger, it's verifying credibility.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Website | Fleet Charter | Mission Statement | Forums | Join | F.A.Q.
Original Handle:
I'm glad you finally see that it's horse **** that these people don't get paid by Cryptic, can I count on a contribution from you for a kickstarter to that end?
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Its sad to see these sorts of posts...I mean my eight year olds use of grammar is better.
What did punctuation do to you ?
In all seriousness who is do you think does test things for Cryptic... based on this latest major TRIBBLE up, your choices are; No one at all, or the worst employee in the world.
All those PvP'ers who have ever checked out any proposed changes to the game and tested them on Tribble check in so the Cap'in up here can see.
I will go first. I have tested many things on Tribble. check.
I apoligise for my presumption in doing so. I was only trying to stay ahead of the learning curve so I would have no reasons to ***** without due cause.
R.I.P
soph, ive blown you up so quick you proboly didn't even notice it was me. and your score board numbers painted an accurate picture for me regarding your ships and skill. im not trying to be mean, but i honestly think you wouldn't be able to perceive the difference fully.
i went from being able to manhandle 90% of everyone i faced, to nearly not being able to kill anyone with the passives by myself. and i tend to run just about the most punishing bleed builds possible.
yes, for christ sake i have tried it out in the ques, i pvp all the time. i made mention of what actually happens in the games i played. my ships have the passives too, theres no need to wonder about the other guy, i can see just how unkillable MY ship is.
is Karl Rove your mentor? are you trying to attack my strengths? good luck with that, 2 people have already steeped up to defend my credibility. in game i am pm'ed thanks every day by someone for my insightful posts, guide and builds, and i have great conversations with these folks and give all of them 1 on 1 help if they want it. some folks just pm me to say they lurk the forums and agree with every thing i say. does anyone do that to you?
I'd post links where PvPers have done testing and Devs stating they require detail testing before they'll take feedback seriously, but you wouldn't read it anyway. I could even find an old STOked episode regarding the shield swapping exploit that lingered for a year or more before a Dev was shamed into acknowledging it was actually a real bug.
You keep saying you're done and you keep returning and then tossing out unfounded opinions and insults. Are you a glutten for punishment or something?
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
They can call it a "bug" but I do not believe that is the case at all. I really think the passives were MEANT to be powerful, its why the Borg were buffed for S7.
Naturally in typical Cryptic fashion it was poorly thought out and we ended up with passives that make cruiser tanks out of T1 Connies (a humorous exageration).
Sure, you can go for cryptic's usual explanation of "it's a display error", but do you really belive that?
Personally, yes, I've (via proxy) taken it into the queues. It's a bit of a **** move to do it more than once to be honest.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Not at all, if anything they probably intended for it to proc every second. Hence why they upgraded to Borg to "incentivize" players into the Omega rep hamster wheel... they were probably afraid that the mk 12 STF sets were not enough on their own so they made the passives exceedingly OP. They probably felt the Rom rep was even shakier without MK 12 costume options so it too got a questionable passive.
The Borg were buffed? Hive maybe? Haven't done Hive. Ego won't let me go into a STF where I have no clue what I'm doing. So maybe Hive...eh?
If Cryptic nerfs the shield down to say, 200-600 every 6 seconds, it will be effectively useless. I can attest that even as it stands now, I am NOT invulnerable, nor have I encountered any who are. Especially in Elite STFs where you can still be easily 1-hit.
In PVP, all it takes is a concentrated burst to take out one shield facing and you can swat an escort like a fly. As far as cruisers go, I am in agreement with what someone else wrote: you actually feel like a cruiser! It takes some of the the already exaggerated edge off of flying a tactical ship when your cruiser can actually hold it's own against an escort...
And the Romulan reputation reward? It's already so short that I see no point to even having it...if Cryptic adds a timer between placates, it too will become absolutely useless (unless they up the placate duration of course).
Frankly, if you want to balance the Omega T4 rep, make it's counterpart, the Kinetic damage proc, have a reasonable proc rate so as to cancel out the benefit of the quick shield regen (frankly, 2.5% comes far too infrequently to be useful...I think someone did the math and it was like an additional 40 damage per minute, or something outrageously low...)
Bottom line:
I don't mind the Passives, just give my cannons the same love. Say, maybe, a 35-40% damage boost at teir 4.
It's like some of the posters here haven't visited the q's in the past week.
This is a really slippery slope... you can use this to justify locking players out of ships, out of weapons, out of extra skill points, etc. etc. I guess there's always going to be differing opinions but I don't imagine many will get behind a gated system that ties PvE success so intimately into PvP.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Why does it have to be significant? Why can't it be a slight advantage?
And if it were to provide a significant advantage, then the kinetic proc should provide a significant advantage as well - no? Each should provide a balanced significant advantage if that is the case...
The kinetic proc:
2.5% energy and 5% torp/mine to do 751.4 damage direct to the hull.
The shield passive should be balanced against that, no?
What's the value of hull vs. shields?
What's the average number of procs that can occur within a 6s period?
That should be the value for the shields, no?
I don't quite see your point. It's not as though anything is locked out... Each passive is freely available after a little hard work and dedication.
It's Tier 4. Significantly away from tier 1, that's why it should be significant.
If it's only a little hard work, why are you so bothered at the prospect of a "nerf"?
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
"Little" was a figure of speech. It's a significant investment and should reward significantly. Perhaps not quite as significantly as it does, but anything more than a 25% decrease in efficacy of any of the passives would be too much.
It's 60k rep. You can get 2800 rep every 20 hours. It's 17-21 days. The passive is not the sole reward for hitting T4. That investment might only be for the passive if that's your choice, but T4 also provides the following opportunities:
Store Unlock Projects: Borg Arm Mk XII, Anti-Borg Consumables
Gear Projects: Omega Torp, MACO/Omega/KHG Space Set Mk XI
Also, you can't get to T5 without going through T4.
So the "investment for T4" is not solely about the passive.
As for the investment? You can run a single Infected Elite each day and you'll not only have more Marks than you need for each pair of daily projects, but you'll also be saving some up along the way. From T3-T4 is around 100k a day... which isn't much in the least.
So that investment is somewhere between 8.5-21 hours or so?
Just because it's timegated and is going to take a "long" time to get it done - doesn't mean that it's actually taking a lot of time.
Course, when you try to do it on four toons - both Omega and Romulan - well, it starts to feel like work. There's folks out there trying to do it with 6, 8, 10+ toons.
I've actually slacked off - was running all four and it's pretty much down to one - just running all four for the Chel Grett races.