Perhaps (if it works) the prize could be increased so that it matches the 2-3 hours of time it takes to play 3 real foundry missions?
I would much rather the Investigate Daily be tied to the time spend in the mission and rewards the dilithium accordingly. If I played 3 solid hours of Foundry missions, that should be worth MORE than 1440 dilithium.
What I am hoping for is that the Devs have reduced at lot of the Dilithium needed for Fleet based projects. Otherwise, I will be converting my zen to dilithium instead of buying the new shinies.
Matt Miracle
Fleet Commander in Chief [Rank 7] for Covenant of Honor; a FED T5 Starbase
House Leader [Rank 7] for Honorable House of Mor'gue; a KDF T3 Starbase Find us at CovenantofHonor.com. My Twitter handle; @jmattmiracle
It won't be popular with all (I have very mixed feelings on it) but it does bring that foundry daily back to what it was originally meant to be.
Oh please. All that will happen is people will find out what the absolute minimum requirement is and build missions with that. In other words, the people who are doing the current clickies will still do the shortest missions possible, not play "real" foundry missions that arent designed that way.
I would much rather the Investigate Daily be tied to the time spend in the mission and rewards the dilithium accordingly. If I played 3 solid hours of Foundry missions, that should be worth MORE than 1440 dilithium.
What I am hoping for is that the Devs have reduced at lot of the Dilithium needed for Fleet based projects. Otherwise, I will be converting my zen to dilithium instead of buying the new shinies.
Agreed, it should be upped to match the playtime. You'll get more entertainment value as well along with the reward.
I honestly don't get this change with the daily officer report mission. Now, if this mission was set up so that every five seconds you could take it and complete it, then yes, this would be a huge exploit. But this is a daily mission. No matter how fast or slow I do the three foundry missions, I am only going to get 50 fleet marks and 1440 dilithium every 20 hours. So, when this change hits, if there isn't a series of missions that is short enough for me to play through quickly, I'm never going to touch this mission again, except to leave it up for whever I play a foundry mission.
Please note, this does not mean that I will never play a foundry mission again, it just means that I will not be doing so for the reward, but because I heard about it and though it sounded interesting and I have the time to spare.
Now, this is what I think would actually be a reward. I'll be generous, and say that it takes something like 30 minutes to an hour to get about 50 fleet marks. 1440 dilithium, I can do in 30 minutes max, not even counting STFs. Let be a bit generous, and then say that any foundry mission that is featured and that lasts between 30 minutes and an hour (I assume that some dev has to play through these) would get the current officer report mission reward. There is even a space on the Tribble build right now to showcase the current foundry mission and previous ones. That would get people to play the foundry missions, there's a good reward.
This? I don't know what this will do eventually, but I can tell you, it won't drive anyone to visit the foundry. Those who used the one click missions won't go there anymore, they only want to try and feed the grind. And those who already go to the foundry missions probably won't care.
Or another thought. Add Dilithium as the reward for the Spotlight mission. Put the Spotlight mission on a 20 hr cooldown and give 1440 as the reward. Problem solved.
Matt Miracle
Fleet Commander in Chief [Rank 7] for Covenant of Honor; a FED T5 Starbase
House Leader [Rank 7] for Honorable House of Mor'gue; a KDF T3 Starbase Find us at CovenantofHonor.com. My Twitter handle; @jmattmiracle
Agreed, it should be upped to match the playtime. You'll get more entertainment value as well along with the reward.
So, what do we think: 3,000? 4,000?
This is by far the best and only real solution. Hopefully the tech is coming soon... so maybe 2014. It's also not easy to actually play 3 Foundry missions a day, so making it independent of a play 3 daily would be nice.
Agreed, it should be upped to match the playtime. You'll get more entertainment value as well along with the reward.
So, what do we think: 3,000? 4,000?
Well considering that I can already earn the 8000 refinement limit in one hour, not touching the clickies, the timed based Foundry missions should be based off that.
"This missions takes about 2 hours to complete" = 16,000 Dilithium please.
[SIGPIC]Handle: @kirian_darkstar
Registered: Oct/2009 , LTS : Feb/2011
Fleets: Warriors of the Phoenix, Kirian Industries[/SIGPIC] Three years and still no Captain Klaa hair...
Those 50 fleet marks are gonna hurt, but I'm NOT spending 2-3 hours playing foundry missions to get them. 2 runs in a fleet event (30 min TOPS) and I make it up.
1400 dilith and 50 fleet marks simply isn't enough incentive to play 2-3 hours (a day) of foundry missions. 100 dilith a minute is what cryptic missions pay.
This is what I posted in the original thread which started this ball rolling(actually it was the second thread - the first was just not crafted properly)
kirksplat - thought that people might try to get around the system and wonders why the quick impliment without so many details - such as the time-based Neverwinter system
This was my response to him and on the reason for haste:
It could be - but this is just a stop-gap measure in my opinion and had to be implimented in a hurry - S7 by many accounts goes live in a few days - and so does the new log-in system which allows you to switch between alts without logging out.
This means the old clickie could be cut down to a total turn around of less than a minute
so even someone with just 10 alts could generate 14,400 dilth in 10 min!!! - that is insane - and 10 alts is fairly common - there are probably 1000's with 30+
So now come next week that report takes the farmers from 2 min on the old system to 10 min under the new - that will be a significant deterrent.
The Neverwinter System was designed and owned by Cryptic - it's only still in Beta testing - so it will take some time.
So is the mail system next on your hitlist ? (mailmageddon)
Please...
Let's NOT go There again...
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
No davy and lordmalak - they knew about this long before I made my question/argument/position/"crusade" - whatever you want to call it known to them.
I suspect that the coming of the new system which allows people to switch between alts without logging out had most of the determining factor for bring these changes now.
That said - one of the primary reasons that I want these dilthium farmers to go is that I believe Cryptic's data has been skewed - as to just how much Dilthium the average players actually farms.
It is my hope and my "crusade" now - that if the new data shows the dilthium generation to drop off significantly, Cryptic will do the right thing - and the most sensible business desicion - and LOWER the dilthium amounts across the game for Starbases/gear etc.
This of course will take some time - so I ask that people give Cryptic the benefit of the doubt - I am sure they want to keep their jobs - and keeping their jobs means keeping players - so long-term they are not in Business to drive the players away.
It just takes time - and the F2P model is new for them - there are kinks still being worked out.
No davy and lordmalak - they knew about this long before I made my question/argument/position/"crusade" - whatever you want to call it known to them.
I suspect that the coming of the new system which allows people to switch between alts without logging out had most of the determining factor for bring these changes now.
So are you retracing your earlier "got the ball rolling" statement or just contradicting yourself?
When the foundry first came out I played the missions to start with because there was nothing else in the game. It was the only new content being added, except the fe's. Then came Fleet Starbases.. supposedly encouraging team play. I use 'clicky console' to help grind out the projects. I use it to help out because the rest of the time I am just doing missions for fleet marks. I just don't get how the game can go from one extreme of there being no end content to moving goal posts.
I don't have anything against the foundry, but why have they not addressed the rewards and getting people playing the missions earlier.. why they change now. That is the annoying thing about it.
Season 6 introduced starbases and focused on fleets/team play. Season 7 has reputation.. Guess its best to do solo play. Why introduce Embassy? Are there so many fleets out there they have completed all tiers? What was the estimate for SB completion - 7 months? so why more projects via the embassy?
Wonder if they have information that says people are paying for Zen and converting it to dilthium for starbase projects, may be that is why they have introduced more ways to spend dilthm...
As the head of a small fleet I am extremely concerned about all the additional dilithium costs. Progress on our base is moving at a snail's pace and I'm wondering if we'll ever see Tier 3. We are a fleet of friends, who do have lives outside the game and simply can't be living in STO when not at work. Our time is limited and the Officer Report mission was a nice thing to have and a huge help to us. I understand why it would be changed, but I disagree that it will cause anyone to play other foundry missions.
Speaking from my personal experience, I play the occasional foundry mission when I come across one that catches my interest. Sadly there don't seem to be many (I realize this is a matter of personal taste). I don't have an interest in playing a foundry mission that is an hour or two long and "heavy on story". I don't want just mindless pew pew, but I don't want to read a novel either, I have real books for reading.
What's going to kill the fleet base for my fleet is the loss of the fleet marks that came from the daily. Losing the dilithium will hurt too, but the marks are the big sting. As for steering people to play more "standard" foundry missions, I just don't see this happening. The officer daily had no influence on the amount of time I spent playing foundry missions.
IMO, changing the Officer Report daily is the wrong approach. If you want to get people to play more foundry missions, then make them easier to find. It seems to me that the filtering/search/general cataloging of the missions could use an overhaul to make the missions more accessible.
Thank you for the T6 Galaxy Class. - I support Tovan Khev. - Please bring back the exploration missions.
So are you retracing your earlier "got the ball rolling" statement or just contradicting yourself?
The "ball" that I got rolling was the dozens of people posting in those threads who were foundry authors who wanted something done.
For the first time in a long while - or ever in the STO Discussion section there were threads where foundry authors spoke out about this exploit - and I believe that Cryptic listen to them - my thread was just the "forum" that they expressed their concern. There is a connection only in that sense. This is exactly what Zero said in her statement. I do not know for sure if it had ANY impact on Cryptic's desicion - but it got the ball rolling to talk about it with the very people who make the "real" foundry - what it is.
That really is the bottom line. If the grinders feel that they need more sources of dilithium and that there is something wrong with the levels of what is needed for these various projects... it's an entirely different issue.
But this mission is designed to reward players for playing actual Foundry missions, not checking flight departures at ESD. The folks who play it as intended should be rewards. They have to pay for the candy bar. It's not fair for them to pay, while everyone else is robbing the place for the prize.
So good job Cryptic, if it works.
Now, ahem...
Perhaps (if it works) the prize could be increased so that it matches the 2-3 hours of time it takes to play 3 real foundry missions?
If they leave the reward as-is, they could just lower the limit to 1 mission.
Does this mean you are TRIBBLE with the quick Foundry dailies? ... Making them useless?
Kind of hurts...the only reason I dropped 4kzen on infrastructure was to add more characters to log in for 1 min dailies for dil(which have not yet, and unfortunately will not have paid for themselves by the time this changes). Had we gotten a heads-up this kind of change would be coming a few weeks ago, I would have bought a ship pack and bank slots instead
If you want people to play Foundry missions (which i do on a very limited basis), don't worry about what the authors have to say about it, listen to the people that don't like playing them, identify why, and take it from there.
All of the best equip requires dil and zen (one in the same) and I already subscribe and will not consider using real world currency for zen in addition. If you're taking my free dil away, at least up my Zen stipend for paying monthly.
The mindset of take from some to please others is a dangerous road to follow.
dont talk wet , it is something the dev's put in to see how many would use it , a lot of one man/ small fleets are going to suffer as a result as the game is turning into a grindfest tbh . and this will start to drive some players away
dont talk wet , it is something the dev's put in to see how many would use it , a lot of one man/ small fleets are going to suffer as a result as the game is turning into a grindfest tbh . and this will start to drive some players away
There are two issues here that people are merging into one.
1. foundry clickie exploit doesn't count for investigate officer reports anymore (1440 dil, 50 fm)
2. People don't have enough dilithium and fm to put into their starbase
Because of #2 people were relying on #1.
In comes a fix to get rid of the loop hole and people are upset because their easy access to dilithium and fleetmarks is now gone. The issue you guys should be complaining about is #2, that Starbases are insanely expensive for small fleets which required using exploits to pay for.
dont talk wet , it is something the dev's put in to see how many would use it , a lot of one man/ small fleets are going to suffer as a result as the game is turning into a grindfest tbh . and this will start to drive some players away
It is an exploit. Granted one that they tolerated so far and even encouraged by adding the Fleetmarks, but still an exploit and it would be nice if they buff the FM reward from the officer of the Wach daily.
Saying this and that will drive players away has been said and repeated sooo many times now ever since the game went live...
Some, maybe, but the Devs have been proven right in their business decisions so many times now, it really doesn't matter in the big scheme if some people have a grudge because their laziness is no longer rewarded.
And this change is so minor on the STO Apocalypse scale i doubt it even registers as such.
dont talk wet , it is something the dev's put in to see how many would use it , a lot of one man/ small fleets are going to suffer as a result as the game is turning into a grindfest tbh . and this will start to drive some players away
Some of the angry feedback is just getting down-right comical and strenghing the Devs position:
"I spent 4000 Zen creating new character slots to take advantage of this exploit:mad:"
"One man fleets will suffer:mad:"
"I only log in for 20 min a day to do the daily on my 4 alts:mad:"
This just goes to show what a Farce the Investigate officer daily had become - only to get worse with more things costing dilth next week - if something had not been done.
Bravo Cryptic - every time one of these angry players critizizes your move it just proves you made the right one.
Comments
I would much rather the Investigate Daily be tied to the time spend in the mission and rewards the dilithium accordingly. If I played 3 solid hours of Foundry missions, that should be worth MORE than 1440 dilithium.
What I am hoping for is that the Devs have reduced at lot of the Dilithium needed for Fleet based projects. Otherwise, I will be converting my zen to dilithium instead of buying the new shinies.
Find us at CovenantofHonor.com. My Twitter handle; @jmattmiracle
Oh please. All that will happen is people will find out what the absolute minimum requirement is and build missions with that. In other words, the people who are doing the current clickies will still do the shortest missions possible, not play "real" foundry missions that arent designed that way.
Agreed, it should be upped to match the playtime. You'll get more entertainment value as well along with the reward.
So, what do we think: 3,000? 4,000?
Please note, this does not mean that I will never play a foundry mission again, it just means that I will not be doing so for the reward, but because I heard about it and though it sounded interesting and I have the time to spare.
Now, this is what I think would actually be a reward. I'll be generous, and say that it takes something like 30 minutes to an hour to get about 50 fleet marks. 1440 dilithium, I can do in 30 minutes max, not even counting STFs. Let be a bit generous, and then say that any foundry mission that is featured and that lasts between 30 minutes and an hour (I assume that some dev has to play through these) would get the current officer report mission reward. There is even a space on the Tribble build right now to showcase the current foundry mission and previous ones. That would get people to play the foundry missions, there's a good reward.
This? I don't know what this will do eventually, but I can tell you, it won't drive anyone to visit the foundry. Those who used the one click missions won't go there anymore, they only want to try and feed the grind. And those who already go to the foundry missions probably won't care.
Nouveau riche LTS member
Find us at CovenantofHonor.com. My Twitter handle; @jmattmiracle
This is by far the best and only real solution. Hopefully the tech is coming soon... so maybe 2014. It's also not easy to actually play 3 Foundry missions a day, so making it independent of a play 3 daily would be nice.
Well considering that I can already earn the 8000 refinement limit in one hour, not touching the clickies, the timed based Foundry missions should be based off that.
"This missions takes about 2 hours to complete" = 16,000 Dilithium please.
Registered: Oct/2009 , LTS : Feb/2011
Fleets: Warriors of the Phoenix, Kirian Industries[/SIGPIC]
Three years and still no Captain Klaa hair...
I think FIXING it back to its old state is too much.
I think you should maybe reduce it to 75% of its current state, 50% being original.
Science is rediculusly underpowered, Please leave SOME of its power.
(Concidering that Polarize hull negates the damage from TBR compleatly...)
1400 dilith and 50 fleet marks simply isn't enough incentive to play 2-3 hours (a day) of foundry missions. 100 dilith a minute is what cryptic missions pay.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
kirksplat - thought that people might try to get around the system and wonders why the quick impliment without so many details - such as the time-based Neverwinter system
This was my response to him and on the reason for haste:
<edit> edited post
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Please...
Let's NOT go There again...
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
You think you "got this ball rolling"?
LOLOLOLOLOL
Sorry to break it to you, but this was being discussed for a long time before you posted 2 threads about it. Talk about an egomaniac :rolleyes:
No davy and lordmalak - they knew about this long before I made my question/argument/position/"crusade" - whatever you want to call it known to them.
I suspect that the coming of the new system which allows people to switch between alts without logging out had most of the determining factor for bring these changes now.
That said - one of the primary reasons that I want these dilthium farmers to go is that I believe Cryptic's data has been skewed - as to just how much Dilthium the average players actually farms.
It is my hope and my "crusade" now - that if the new data shows the dilthium generation to drop off significantly, Cryptic will do the right thing - and the most sensible business desicion - and LOWER the dilthium amounts across the game for Starbases/gear etc.
This of course will take some time - so I ask that people give Cryptic the benefit of the doubt - I am sure they want to keep their jobs - and keeping their jobs means keeping players - so long-term they are not in Business to drive the players away.
It just takes time - and the F2P model is new for them - there are kinks still being worked out.
And NO I don't work for Cryptic:eek:
See my last post - you beat me to a response by a minute or 2.
So are you retracing your earlier "got the ball rolling" statement or just contradicting yourself?
I don't have anything against the foundry, but why have they not addressed the rewards and getting people playing the missions earlier.. why they change now. That is the annoying thing about it.
Season 6 introduced starbases and focused on fleets/team play. Season 7 has reputation.. Guess its best to do solo play. Why introduce Embassy? Are there so many fleets out there they have completed all tiers? What was the estimate for SB completion - 7 months? so why more projects via the embassy?
Wonder if they have information that says people are paying for Zen and converting it to dilthium for starbase projects, may be that is why they have introduced more ways to spend dilthm...
Speaking from my personal experience, I play the occasional foundry mission when I come across one that catches my interest. Sadly there don't seem to be many (I realize this is a matter of personal taste). I don't have an interest in playing a foundry mission that is an hour or two long and "heavy on story". I don't want just mindless pew pew, but I don't want to read a novel either, I have real books for reading.
What's going to kill the fleet base for my fleet is the loss of the fleet marks that came from the daily. Losing the dilithium will hurt too, but the marks are the big sting. As for steering people to play more "standard" foundry missions, I just don't see this happening. The officer daily had no influence on the amount of time I spent playing foundry missions.
IMO, changing the Officer Report daily is the wrong approach. If you want to get people to play more foundry missions, then make them easier to find. It seems to me that the filtering/search/general cataloging of the missions could use an overhaul to make the missions more accessible.
The "ball" that I got rolling was the dozens of people posting in those threads who were foundry authors who wanted something done.
For the first time in a long while - or ever in the STO Discussion section there were threads where foundry authors spoke out about this exploit - and I believe that Cryptic listen to them - my thread was just the "forum" that they expressed their concern. There is a connection only in that sense. This is exactly what Zero said in her statement. I do not know for sure if it had ANY impact on Cryptic's desicion - but it got the ball rolling to talk about it with the very people who make the "real" foundry - what it is.
My character Tsin'xing
Kind of hurts...the only reason I dropped 4kzen on infrastructure was to add more characters to log in for 1 min dailies for dil(which have not yet, and unfortunately will not have paid for themselves by the time this changes). Had we gotten a heads-up this kind of change would be coming a few weeks ago, I would have bought a ship pack and bank slots instead
If you want people to play Foundry missions (which i do on a very limited basis), don't worry about what the authors have to say about it, listen to the people that don't like playing them, identify why, and take it from there.
All of the best equip requires dil and zen (one in the same) and I already subscribe and will not consider using real world currency for zen in addition. If you're taking my free dil away, at least up my Zen stipend for paying monthly.
The mindset of take from some to please others is a dangerous road to follow.
there are other ways to get dilithium, i'll adapt.
and i'll wait until the Reputation System hits the Foundry and some REAL rewards are added to the System, just a question of time.
The 50 Fleetmarks will hurt... may make people actually play Fleetmissions again.
maybe not the worst thing, haven't played one in weeks.
If those are being removed, then at least give me a way to convert Zen to fleet marks.
No one's taking the clickies away to please people, it's an exploit that's being fixed...
Foundry Mission Database
Check out my Foundry missions:
Standalone - The Great Escape - The Galaxy's Fair - Purity I: Of Denial - Return to Oblivion
Untitled Series - Duritanium Man - The Improbable Bulk - Commander Rihan
dont talk wet , it is something the dev's put in to see how many would use it , a lot of one man/ small fleets are going to suffer as a result as the game is turning into a grindfest tbh . and this will start to drive some players away
DELTA PRICE RISING
There are two issues here that people are merging into one.
1. foundry clickie exploit doesn't count for investigate officer reports anymore (1440 dil, 50 fm)
2. People don't have enough dilithium and fm to put into their starbase
Because of #2 people were relying on #1.
In comes a fix to get rid of the loop hole and people are upset because their easy access to dilithium and fleetmarks is now gone. The issue you guys should be complaining about is #2, that Starbases are insanely expensive for small fleets which required using exploits to pay for.
Foundry Mission Database
Check out my Foundry missions:
Standalone - The Great Escape - The Galaxy's Fair - Purity I: Of Denial - Return to Oblivion
Untitled Series - Duritanium Man - The Improbable Bulk - Commander Rihan
It is an exploit. Granted one that they tolerated so far and even encouraged by adding the Fleetmarks, but still an exploit and it would be nice if they buff the FM reward from the officer of the Wach daily.
Saying this and that will drive players away has been said and repeated sooo many times now ever since the game went live...
Some, maybe, but the Devs have been proven right in their business decisions so many times now, it really doesn't matter in the big scheme if some people have a grudge because their laziness is no longer rewarded.
And this change is so minor on the STO Apocalypse scale i doubt it even registers as such.
Some of the angry feedback is just getting down-right comical and strenghing the Devs position:
"I spent 4000 Zen creating new character slots to take advantage of this exploit:mad:"
"One man fleets will suffer:mad:"
"I only log in for 20 min a day to do the daily on my 4 alts:mad:"
This just goes to show what a Farce the Investigate officer daily had become - only to get worse with more things costing dilth next week - if something had not been done.
Bravo Cryptic - every time one of these angry players critizizes your move it just proves you made the right one.
Any dev posts about this possibility or is it just wishful thinking? I haven't paid any attention to reputation stuff.
I support that idea. That's a great daily quest, if we don't see "clickies 2.0."