To me, the IRP was kind of like a daily log on gift, nothing excessive but you log on and can get a bit easily. 1440 Dilithium per day isn't going to get anyone anywhere quickly.
There are quite a few MMOs out there that have a tiered daily log on reward structure. So if you set 50 fleet marks and 1440 dilithium as your top prize the structure looks something like...
Day 1 288 Dilithium, 10 Fleet marks
Day 2 576 Dilithium, 20 Fleet marks
Day 3 864 Dilithium, 30 Fleet marks
Day 4 1152 Dilithium, 40 Fleet marks
Day 5 1440 Dilithium, 50 fleet marks
After logging in 5 days in a row you continue to gain the day 5 as long as you don't miss a day.
The system promotes people logging in and continuing to play, something STO is sorely missing right now.
20 pages on console clicker discussion, but am I the only one who noticed this part of the update?
Embassy Update: Added Additional Duty Officer Assignment Slot functionality.
These can be purchased from the Consumables vendor in the Shuttle Bay, upon unlocking the appropriate Recruitment Tier.
More Assignment Slots!? Woah this is something that has been requested forever. I wonder if anyone has the numbers on this. Since its consumable I'm guessing it's time limited, maybe an extra slot for 24 hours? Very curious about this.
And well some of the page 10 posts are why these Foundry changes are a different debate, you guys. Closing an exploit is closing an exploit. And, if that means that more of you all actually play Foundry missions, then I'm all for it.
You call it an exploit, I call it "compensating for the absurd resource cost of fleet projects."
And it will not get me to play lengthier Foundry missions. It will cause me to abandon the Foundry entirely. They've made this game all about gathering dilithium and marks, so I don't have time to waste on anything the doesn't award dilithium and marks.
logged on to look at the conversion rate for my current EDC's, Rare and Prototype borg stuff transition.
For what I had (30-some EDC's, and enough proto's and rare's equipment for 1 rare and proto set each, and 3 to 5 rare and proto salvage each), I'm getting 1,500 Omega Marks, 8 Borg Neural Processors, and 1,000 Dilithium.... that I can't even get until I hit rank 3 in this new system.
I'd like to call BS. People work hard to have that extra stuff prior to S7 so that they -can- have a "leg up" as it were - and your answer is to say "that's nice, no. grind to tier x first and -then- you can have your goodies."
It's not right by a long shot. Let them open their boxes immediately and have access to their well earned rewards right away. Christ, the Task Force missions for them to grind up the tiers takes 1 day 16 hours anyways, and you're only getting 2,800 rep.
so it's gonna take 2 of these "group settings" to make Tier 1 (you need 5,000 for Tier 1, 2800 twice = 5600).
So... 1d 16h x2 = 2d 32h or 3 days and 8 hours just to hit tier 1.
You need 3 times that for tier 2, and a little over 6 times that for tier 3.
Ok, try to follow me on this one. We've been debating on the fairness of project costs to small fleets that are behind because of it. Those fleets would still be on white quality only. If they're so far along that they need higher quality, THEN THEY'RE NOT TOO SMALL AND NOT FALLING BEHIND AND DON'T NEED TO BE CATERED TO!!! Therefore, no one in these small fleets have had to sacrifice their doffing for the fleet projects. And if they're in a fleet that far advanced to where they need higher quality doffs, then they'll do just fine if they keep enough doffs to do their doffing. Take your time on replying til your brain catches up, no sense in arguing in circles.
If small fleets don't matter, then they should not allow small fleets to exist.
It's going to totally give the shaft to every non-spotlight mission though if you only get dilithium for the spotlight or former spotlights. People already complain about there not being enough rewards now, what if there were no rewards? Of course there's always the reward of the story, but it would be nice to have exp and such attached too.
Or maybe I misunderstood and you're just saying that in addition to the other rewards, the spotlight would have a large reward attached? I'm fine with that.
In fact, maybe they should add a reward to playing the Foundry contest submissions and submitting a vote, that would actually encourage more participation there.
Well, I meant the post more as a: "If this is a worst scenario, maybe it could work this way." I would really prefer a much wider reward system here. Every real mission should give a real reward that is worth the player's time and investment.
First off removing the console clicker mission now is just a stop-gap measure to remove an exploit that would have doubled with the introduction in season 7 where the player with multiple alts no longer has to log out.
So if you have 40 characters - you just keep each one at the console - hail/hail/hail - one click - 10 second later done - 10 second more your into the next toon
so as little as 1 min per toon or 40 min for 60,000!! dilthium! something had to be implemented in a hurry.
That said it is my belief that they want to inplement the more robust and complicated neverwinter rewards system - but that might take more time then their less than a week before launch deline.
Since only certain mission will qualify for the daily reward find out if an average mission time indication can be put on the mission wrapper page, so I'll know NOT to waste my time on missions longer than 10 minutes.
The cryptic missions reward 480 dil for 5 minutes, it makes NO sense to have to play 3-45 minute foundry missions for the paltry daily 3 reward when I can do cryptic written missions faster for an equal amount of dilithium.
I'll waste time playing foundry missions after I pop my daily dilith cap under this new system.
When you catch half of your playerbase using a so-called "exploit," the wise game studio would take a long look at why they are resorting to the "exploit" in the first place and address that problem first. Even if the solution runs contrary to your obvious "steer everyone towards microtransactions above all else" business model.
Since there seems to be a lot of words being tossed back and forth over the subject of "people only ever play the push button/get bacon missions" I'll chime in with my 2 cents.
1) Yes, I do the Push Button/Get Bacon foundry missions a lot. Why? Easy, I've usually only got 30 minutes to an hour of STO-time per day, like a bunch of other players. I've also got oodles and oodles of alts. And I like being able to contribute dilithium to fleet projects.
2) A lot of them are at Starfleet Academy, which works great since what I usually do along with them missions is DOFF Recruitment, since that's a primary source of EC (and thus lockbox loot and lobi) for me.
3) HOWEVER I DO do longer missions when I get the chance, but that's only like once a week at most. But I draw the line at missions that are longer than about 30 minutes. Why? Just personal preference really.
4) The Foundry Daily is also currently my primary source of Fleet Marks, so this change is going to severely cripple my Fleet Credit accumulation rate (not that I've ever used my fleet credit yet, still waiting on the fleet to get the Elite weapons).
5) While its true that Dilithium is being added to other things, I'm still suspicious as to if this will actually make the Fleet Action queues fill up any faster. Currently, I usually have no luck getting into a Fleet Action if I'm not doing a private queue and hunting for players myself.
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Host of the Borg Boombox, 0300 GMT on Fridays on Subspace Radio
When they can't keep the @#$%ing server up long enough for me to complete a real mission, for one thing.
This is a big "F you!" to small fleets, period. :mad:
Let's be honest. Watering the Admiral's favorite bush 3 times at Starfleet Academy and subsequently getting 1440 dil and 50 fleet mark was obviously not the intention of the developers. I get that you're annoyed that your free dil generator is not going to be available anymore, but this was quite clearly a system being vastly exploited by the masses.
Let's be honest. Watering the Admiral's favorite bush 3 times at Starfleet Academy and subsequently getting 1440 dil and 50 fleet mark was obviously not the intention of the developers. I get that you're annoyed that your free dil generator is not going to be available anymore, but this was quite clearly a system being vastly exploited by the masses.
Exploited because "the system" is BROKEN.
This just breaks it more. Excluding a large portion of the playerbase from some meager content based on some condescending notions of "large fleets" and "time-based currency."
What defines a mission that counts toward the Investigate misison? I know it has to give XP, EC and the like but how long (time wise) does the mission have to be to give XP?
What defines a mission that counts toward the Investigate misison? I know it has to give XP, EC and the like but how long (time wise) does the mission have to be to give XP?
That's what Brandon said he was going to go asking for last night but we have yet to hear anything.
We are pretty sure they are trying their best to close up the exploit, however.
This just breaks it more. Excluding a large portion of the playerbase from some meager content based on some condescending notions of "large fleets" and "time-based currency."
How about this as a compromise: missions that require no direct gains normally (EC/expertise/dil) must have a duration of X minutes and must contain Y number of unique dialogue interactions with Z individuals.
So either a mission must last at least, 5 minutes for example, and/or must include talking to a minimum of 3 separate individuals with at least 4 dialogue options per individual.
All this foundry change means is I'll just have to team up my four alts with my prime and do a quickie kill targ mission and get 5 players done at once instead of one at a time at a console. In effect it will probably be even faster that way and if not well it wont matter because I didn't heavily depend on it. It's not going to stop the quickie foundry missions and it was a meager amount of dilithium anyways. Now if it is limited to spotlight missions then this is effectively nerfed because no one is going to play three long missions for that small amount. I would only say that they shouldn't allow special effects to occur in community maps.
After all cryptic turned us into a bunch of grinding drones anyways where you don't do anything but click here and click there. The whole starbase/DOFF system is nothing but grinding of some variety. I have spent hours doffing (clicking), exchange shopping(clicking), commodity buying(clicking), and clearing inventory(Clicking) out from the terrible loot received from Nukara. Soon we will have the reputation system which expands on the very same clicking mantra. As I have said on another forum thread its becoming more of a facebook/zynga game where you can do everything from your UI and not even leave the map. Don't get me wrong I love New Romulus and the story line but you spend a gross amount of time just clicking away for everything else. I play the story for about 20% of the time I'm on and the rest of the time clicking for resources.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
I don't think anyone would really argue that 1440 dilithium is a good reward for 2 and a half hours of playing actual foundry missions.
It's too low. But, as it is right now, it's way too high for 3 console clickers.
I really hope that if they succeed at eliminating the exploit, they'll also succeed in making the actual Foundry missions give decent rewards, given the time players have to invest, especially compared to existing ways to get dil.
Maybe once they know that the clickers are gone, then they can up the reward.
Best solution seems to be the NW rewards system. But, we're probably stuck in a twilight zone between clickers and an actual solution, so these temporary fixes (which seem to take half a year to implement) are given to us between now and then.
I'm still trying to find out more information for you all, but I do know that there is a bug on Tribble that mistakenly displays all UGC missions as not giving credit to the daily -- this is already fixed and will be in the next build. When Season 7 goes to Holodeck, a mission's description will now indicate if it will not count towards the Foundry mission daily.
I'd like to hear that the NW system is coming to the Foundry. Even if it's a ways off, it would be nice to know. Current reward system has been exceptionally poor from the start. It always benefited short missions, and since a console clicker is the pinnacle of short missions, it benefited them the most, when they were by far the least deserving.
I'd like to hear that the NW system is coming to the Foundry. Even if it's a ways off, it would be nice to know. Current reward system has been exceptionally poor from the start. It always benefited short missions, and since a console clicker is the pinnacle of short missions, it benefited them the most, when they were by far the least deserving.
Unless a Cryptic employee tailors any mission lasting longer than a minute to give it adequate rewards for the time it takes when players are trying to max their refinement cap on all their toons... or if there is nothing like an approved loot bag drop table for authors to create something off the achievement of the mission... I wouldn't expect any missions lasting longer than a minute to see any spotlight.
It's kind of terrible to say but in reality its the truth when it comes to gring games like mmorpg's. If this game was just a totally fan made game then I would be contradicted but
I'm still trying to find out more information for you all, but I do know that there is a bug on Tribble that mistakenly displays all UGC missions as not giving credit to the daily -- this is already fixed and will be in the next build. When Season 7 goes to Holodeck, a mission's description will now indicate if it will not count towards the Foundry mission daily.
Hopefully I will have more info soon
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Could you find out why they are insistent on withholding the rewards from people getting their "omega marks" and "dilithium" that is from them having their items x-ferred over? The Omega Conversion Crates should be available (at least imo) as soon as the players log into the server with the update. Not roughly 20 days later (and even then only if they do a maximum grind for every mission).
I mean, I can see everyone is all about the Foundry stuff, but for the most part everyone knows that they're fixing an obvious exploit. Hats off, good job, but my thing is with the conversion from the old system to the new system, you're giving us a box with the converted goods in it sure, but not until we've unlocked Tier 3? I dunno about you, but that's kinda shady imo. I work hard to have things in-game and they're just gonna be locked out until I hit a certain tier?
I'm still trying to find out more information for you all, but I do know that there is a bug on Tribble that mistakenly displays all UGC missions as not giving credit to the daily -- this is already fixed and will be in the next build. When Season 7 goes to Holodeck, a mission's description will now indicate if it will not count towards the Foundry mission daily.
Hopefully I will have more info soon
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Could it be that the Devs would like to withhold the info on how we can make a minimally qualifying foundry mission until after its too late to make one on holodeck while the editor is closed down for a few weeks post season 7 launch. If they did that it would provide them with new data on just how much of an impact quick runs of "Investigate Officer Reports" is having on fleet bases and the accumulation of Dilithium.
I'm still trying to find out more information for you all, but I do know that there is a bug on Tribble that mistakenly displays all UGC missions as not giving credit to the daily -- this is already fixed and will be in the next build. When Season 7 goes to Holodeck, a mission's description will now indicate if it will not count towards the Foundry mission daily.
Hopefully I will have more info soon
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
so, like Kirk said, what ARE the actual requirements now?
I'm still trying to find out more information for you all,
What exactly does this mean? Who has the info? Who decided to make the changes, and how exactly does the new system work? Unless the Cryptic office is very disorganized it shouldnt be hard to find the answers to those questions in a matter of minutes.
Brandon asked me for some more information, so here it is.
We have listened to the feedback of the Foundry author community, and have taken steps to encourage our players to play some of the missions created by their fellow players. To that end, we have made some changes to the Investigate Officer Reports daily mission:
Fast "clickie" missions are not eligible for daily because they discourage exploring the community authored stories.
Longer, well-crafted missions have always granted XP and EC at the end, and will continue to do so. Missions with no combat will also still grant diplomacy points.
These longer, well-crafted missions are the ones that will be eligible for the Foundry Daily.
Fast, Kill-One-Guy or Click-One-Console missions will not give credit for the daily.
Non-combat missions are still eligible for the daily.
A nice side effect of this will be to make the Hot filter more useful, as it will no longer be so dense with short "clickie" missions.
Hope this clarifies things for all of you. And now I have to get back into my hidey-hole, preparing Season 7 patch notes and builds and stuff.
Comments
There are quite a few MMOs out there that have a tiered daily log on reward structure. So if you set 50 fleet marks and 1440 dilithium as your top prize the structure looks something like...
Day 1 288 Dilithium, 10 Fleet marks
Day 2 576 Dilithium, 20 Fleet marks
Day 3 864 Dilithium, 30 Fleet marks
Day 4 1152 Dilithium, 40 Fleet marks
Day 5 1440 Dilithium, 50 fleet marks
After logging in 5 days in a row you continue to gain the day 5 as long as you don't miss a day.
The system promotes people logging in and continuing to play, something STO is sorely missing right now.
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More Assignment Slots!? Woah this is something that has been requested forever. I wonder if anyone has the numbers on this. Since its consumable I'm guessing it's time limited, maybe an extra slot for 24 hours? Very curious about this.
I'm on tribble but not seeing it listed in the awards category.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
When they can't keep the @#$%ing server up long enough for me to complete a real mission, for one thing.
This is a big "F you!" to small fleets, period. :mad:
Yeah, they do. Around 900 on Elite, 400 on Normal.
You call it an exploit, I call it "compensating for the absurd resource cost of fleet projects."
And it will not get me to play lengthier Foundry missions. It will cause me to abandon the Foundry entirely. They've made this game all about gathering dilithium and marks, so I don't have time to waste on anything the doesn't award dilithium and marks.
For what I had (30-some EDC's, and enough proto's and rare's equipment for 1 rare and proto set each, and 3 to 5 rare and proto salvage each), I'm getting 1,500 Omega Marks, 8 Borg Neural Processors, and 1,000 Dilithium.... that I can't even get until I hit rank 3 in this new system.
I'd like to call BS. People work hard to have that extra stuff prior to S7 so that they -can- have a "leg up" as it were - and your answer is to say "that's nice, no. grind to tier x first and -then- you can have your goodies."
It's not right by a long shot. Let them open their boxes immediately and have access to their well earned rewards right away. Christ, the Task Force missions for them to grind up the tiers takes 1 day 16 hours anyways, and you're only getting 2,800 rep.
so it's gonna take 2 of these "group settings" to make Tier 1 (you need 5,000 for Tier 1, 2800 twice = 5600).
So... 1d 16h x2 = 2d 32h or 3 days and 8 hours just to hit tier 1.
You need 3 times that for tier 2, and a little over 6 times that for tier 3.
Again, calling BS.
That's a bunch of smug, dismissive TRIBBLE, and I don't pay for the privilege of begging strangers to let me in their fleet.
If small fleets don't matter, then they should not allow small fleets to exist.
Well, I meant the post more as a: "If this is a worst scenario, maybe it could work this way." I would really prefer a much wider reward system here. Every real mission should give a real reward that is worth the player's time and investment.
So if you have 40 characters - you just keep each one at the console - hail/hail/hail - one click - 10 second later done - 10 second more your into the next toon
so as little as 1 min per toon or 40 min for 60,000!! dilthium! something had to be implemented in a hurry.
That said it is my belief that they want to inplement the more robust and complicated neverwinter rewards system - but that might take more time then their less than a week before launch deline.
Since only certain mission will qualify for the daily reward find out if an average mission time indication can be put on the mission wrapper page, so I'll know NOT to waste my time on missions longer than 10 minutes.
The cryptic missions reward 480 dil for 5 minutes, it makes NO sense to have to play 3-45 minute foundry missions for the paltry daily 3 reward when I can do cryptic written missions faster for an equal amount of dilithium.
I'll waste time playing foundry missions after I pop my daily dilith cap under this new system.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
When you catch half of your playerbase using a so-called "exploit," the wise game studio would take a long look at why they are resorting to the "exploit" in the first place and address that problem first. Even if the solution runs contrary to your obvious "steer everyone towards microtransactions above all else" business model.
1) Yes, I do the Push Button/Get Bacon foundry missions a lot. Why? Easy, I've usually only got 30 minutes to an hour of STO-time per day, like a bunch of other players. I've also got oodles and oodles of alts. And I like being able to contribute dilithium to fleet projects.
2) A lot of them are at Starfleet Academy, which works great since what I usually do along with them missions is DOFF Recruitment, since that's a primary source of EC (and thus lockbox loot and lobi) for me.
3) HOWEVER I DO do longer missions when I get the chance, but that's only like once a week at most. But I draw the line at missions that are longer than about 30 minutes. Why? Just personal preference really.
4) The Foundry Daily is also currently my primary source of Fleet Marks, so this change is going to severely cripple my Fleet Credit accumulation rate (not that I've ever used my fleet credit yet, still waiting on the fleet to get the Elite weapons).
5) While its true that Dilithium is being added to other things, I'm still suspicious as to if this will actually make the Fleet Action queues fill up any faster. Currently, I usually have no luck getting into a Fleet Action if I'm not doing a private queue and hunting for players myself.
Host of the Borg Boombox, 0300 GMT on Fridays on Subspace Radio
Let's be honest. Watering the Admiral's favorite bush 3 times at Starfleet Academy and subsequently getting 1440 dil and 50 fleet mark was obviously not the intention of the developers. I get that you're annoyed that your free dil generator is not going to be available anymore, but this was quite clearly a system being vastly exploited by the masses.
Exploited because "the system" is BROKEN.
This just breaks it more. Excluding a large portion of the playerbase from some meager content based on some condescending notions of "large fleets" and "time-based currency."
That's what Brandon said he was going to go asking for last night but we have yet to hear anything.
We are pretty sure they are trying their best to close up the exploit, however.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
How about this as a compromise: missions that require no direct gains normally (EC/expertise/dil) must have a duration of X minutes and must contain Y number of unique dialogue interactions with Z individuals.
So either a mission must last at least, 5 minutes for example, and/or must include talking to a minimum of 3 separate individuals with at least 4 dialogue options per individual.
Or you can just kill spawns.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
After all cryptic turned us into a bunch of grinding drones anyways where you don't do anything but click here and click there. The whole starbase/DOFF system is nothing but grinding of some variety. I have spent hours doffing (clicking), exchange shopping(clicking), commodity buying(clicking), and clearing inventory(Clicking) out from the terrible loot received from Nukara. Soon we will have the reputation system which expands on the very same clicking mantra. As I have said on another forum thread its becoming more of a facebook/zynga game where you can do everything from your UI and not even leave the map. Don't get me wrong I love New Romulus and the story line but you spend a gross amount of time just clicking away for everything else. I play the story for about 20% of the time I'm on and the rest of the time clicking for resources.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
It's too low. But, as it is right now, it's way too high for 3 console clickers.
I really hope that if they succeed at eliminating the exploit, they'll also succeed in making the actual Foundry missions give decent rewards, given the time players have to invest, especially compared to existing ways to get dil.
Maybe once they know that the clickers are gone, then they can up the reward.
Best solution seems to be the NW rewards system. But, we're probably stuck in a twilight zone between clickers and an actual solution, so these temporary fixes (which seem to take half a year to implement) are given to us between now and then.
Still, we need details please.
I'm still trying to find out more information for you all, but I do know that there is a bug on Tribble that mistakenly displays all UGC missions as not giving credit to the daily -- this is already fixed and will be in the next build. When Season 7 goes to Holodeck, a mission's description will now indicate if it will not count towards the Foundry mission daily.
Hopefully I will have more info soon
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Click here for my Foundry tutorial on Creating A Custom Interior Map.
Unless a Cryptic employee tailors any mission lasting longer than a minute to give it adequate rewards for the time it takes when players are trying to max their refinement cap on all their toons... or if there is nothing like an approved loot bag drop table for authors to create something off the achievement of the mission... I wouldn't expect any missions lasting longer than a minute to see any spotlight.
It's kind of terrible to say but in reality its the truth when it comes to gring games like mmorpg's. If this game was just a totally fan made game then I would be contradicted but
Could you find out why they are insistent on withholding the rewards from people getting their "omega marks" and "dilithium" that is from them having their items x-ferred over? The Omega Conversion Crates should be available (at least imo) as soon as the players log into the server with the update. Not roughly 20 days later (and even then only if they do a maximum grind for every mission).
I mean, I can see everyone is all about the Foundry stuff, but for the most part everyone knows that they're fixing an obvious exploit. Hats off, good job, but my thing is with the conversion from the old system to the new system, you're giving us a box with the converted goods in it sure, but not until we've unlocked Tier 3? I dunno about you, but that's kinda shady imo. I work hard to have things in-game and they're just gonna be locked out until I hit a certain tier?
Could it be that the Devs would like to withhold the info on how we can make a minimally qualifying foundry mission until after its too late to make one on holodeck while the editor is closed down for a few weeks post season 7 launch. If they did that it would provide them with new data on just how much of an impact quick runs of "Investigate Officer Reports" is having on fleet bases and the accumulation of Dilithium.
My character Tsin'xing
What exactly does this mean? Who has the info? Who decided to make the changes, and how exactly does the new system work? Unless the Cryptic office is very disorganized it shouldnt be hard to find the answers to those questions in a matter of minutes.
We have listened to the feedback of the Foundry author community, and have taken steps to encourage our players to play some of the missions created by their fellow players. To that end, we have made some changes to the Investigate Officer Reports daily mission:
A nice side effect of this will be to make the Hot filter more useful, as it will no longer be so dense with short "clickie" missions.
Hope this clarifies things for all of you. And now I have to get back into my hidey-hole, preparing Season 7 patch notes and builds and stuff.