Any dev posts about this possibility or is it just wishful thinking? I haven't paid any attention to reputation stuff.
part wishfull thinking, part obvious.
they will add that Reputation Sytem to EVERYTHING now...
i expect to get at least 2 more Reputation Trees / Tabs with every Season to keep the grind going.
in the last P1 interview with Geko they've gone through the list of what is *possible* with it and they mentioned pretty much every Species and System down to "PVP Reputation".
These 2 Borg + Rom are just the beginning.
Geko did not mention the Foundry, but it is only a logical assumption that at some point it will get in their crosshair too (and imho the foundry needs it the most to make people play that stuff, of course first the exploit had to go i had hoped when the clickes go that they would be replaced with something really NEW AND SHINY, but for now, it only hurts the daily dilithium production GAME WIDE, i expect that Dilithium Exchange number to go slowly up again now. add the nerfed STFs too that... uff... that will hurt.)
I wonder if Cryptic will the purge the mission roster so the old clickies don't clutter the menu so much. I doubt most of the authors will bother emoving them.
So S7 takes away from the game and adds stuff I don't care for. My fleet base will never get finished now. The more you take away b/c of a few QQers, the less people will play your game. The less people you have, the less $ you take in. At some point the QQers will be left without anyone to complain to when they shut down the servers.
For the first time, I regret going lifetime. To disable an aspect of a game that I made this purchase upon is nothing short of a bait-n-switch.
Season 7: Shaka, when the walls fell.
There are Four Lights... say no to ARCFleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
And the list of people complaining because they were deliberately using this exploit keeps growing - comical
Don't anyone dare say they created 10+ alts to just do this missions say "i had no idea this was something that wasn't intended" - you will just make yourself look foolish.
So S7 takes away from the game and adds stuff I don't care for. My fleet base will never get finished now. The more you take away b/c of a few QQers, the less people will play your game. The less people you have, the less $ you take in. At some point the QQers will be left without anyone to complain to when they shut down the servers.
Just to set the record straight. There wasnt anyone QQing over this. It was an EXPLOIT that cryptic fixed. Ill admit, i used it myself. I knew it would not last forever, it couldnt because it was simply an exploit. I can fully understand why it has been taken away.
I do feel the reward should be used for spotlighted missions, and have to do only 1 every 20hrs.
People keep using the word "exploit" like it's a cardinal sin that should end all discussion.
:rolleyes:
The reality of the situation is that it was the will of the market, the customer base, reflected in playing habits. It is a sign that the game has been made into too much of a resource grind. The true problem was not the use of the "exploit," but the crushing grind that drove people to it in the first place.
And no, the net result is not going to be more people paying real money for dilithium and giving the "legitimate" foundry missions another look. The result will be small fleets abandoning Base development projects and many people ignoring the foundry entirely until another "exploit" is found.
You can either continue to fight a losing battle against free will, or respond to the desires of your customer base.
When I read that people say they have small fleet and this fix is TRIBBLE them, I wonder. Is anyone actually expecting to build up their starbase at the same pace that a fleet with ten times the number of members is ?
Granted, they took a looooonnnggg time to do something to prevent the one-click foundry abuse, but fixing something that wasn't intended from the start can't serously be seen as "TRIBBLE someone over".
I refused to do the clickies for a long time out of principle but have to admit that I weakened later on when I discovered that using those missions was something everyone was doing without hesitation.
My hope is that they succeed in making the Foundry rewards worthwhile, so that we as players can not only enjoy the hard work of dedicated authors but can at the same time work towards our goals ingame (be it gear or resources for bases etc.)
People keep using the word "exploit" like it's a cardinal sin that should end all discussion.
:rolleyes:
The reality of the situation is that it was the will of the market, the customer base, reflected in playing habits. It is a sign that the game has been made into too much of a resource grind. The true problem was not the use of the "exploit," but the crushing grind that drove people to it in the first place.[/I]
I don't really buy the argument. Let's say that STO's system was entirely fair and reasonable according to whatever standards you have. But, let's say there was a npc at ESD who was just giving away 1440 dilithium, due to an exploit.
People would be standing at that npc 24/7 no matter how reasonable or unreasonable the grinding is. It's free stuff through an exploit. People would do it for the sole reason that it saved them a trip through sector space or something.
When I read that people say they have small fleet and this fix is TRIBBLE them, I wonder. Is anyone actually expecting to build up their starbase at the same pace that a fleet with ten times the number of members is ?
No, but that doesn't mean the amount of time I'm willing to devote to it will be unlimited. There is a balance to be struck there, and I'm not accepting the false dichotomy of "endless grind" vs. "instant gratification" as the end of the discussion.
It's free stuff through an exploit. People would do it for the sole reason that it saved them a loading screen or something.
It's a cop-out to lump people who do it by necessity with the people who will always look for free stuff. The fact is it would take WAY longer than its worth to pile up all of the needed resources "legitimately."
Should people be excluded from a large portion of the content in a game they pay to play because they'd rather have a tiny fleet of friends than submit to the will of a giant fleet of strangers? No. Is extending the grind a good way of stretching the content? No.
No, but that doesn't mean the amount of time I'm willing to devote to it will be unlimited. There is a balance to be struck there, and I'm not accepting the false dichotomy of "endless grind" vs. "instant gratification" as the end of the discussion.
These are two different issues. An exploit shouldn't be neccessary to aquire ingame resource with a reasonable time:gain factor (not to mention fun).
So, while I do agree that it should be possible to get the stuff one needs in a reasonably fashion, I don't agree that on these ground an exploit should be left in the game.
Well, it looks like my latest version of Gates of Sto'vo'kor mission which was designed as an experimental mission and it appears that now it won't be eligible for rewards. It has a completely custom map with dozens of interactable objects and emotes. However, the mission has no objectives, no combat, and no story. It's is merely a place for people to bring their friends to hang out in and experience the environment and tell their own stories without the trolling that many social zones have become known for. This makes me sad.
We don't really give a damn if you're sad. The way you describe your mission means that it doesn't have any objectives to complete and thus isn't eligible for the daily. Go work on it and make it better instead of 'being sad'. :P
Also you said it yourself 'experimental' so go work on it to make it release-worthy :P
As for the topic at hand, I'm glad they're making this change. I'm surprised that they even allow Foundry missions to 'count' at all towards dailies or anything else in the 'regular' game. Be glad that they do :P
I have yet to play a "legitimate" Foundry mission that does not meet qualifications.
In other words, the click-one-console missions I've played are the only ones I've seen that wouldn't count. (I haven't played any that are just kill-one-guy, but those wouldn't count either.) This isn't to imply that combat is required--it's not.
Also, QA is investigating your reports that the Foundry missions have stopped granting the EC and XP and CXP.
One thing though... I would spend about 30 min running through my alts, clicking through Quickies, and earning about 300 FM, never mind the Dil.
I have no issue not having to repetitively click through all my alts to get this. What I need to know however is that the other 3 hours of my night I spend in game will be rewarded with FM, at or near a similar rate (300FM/nightly).
I just want to play STO, not grind it. But if the only way I'm going to find FM is going to be through those few missions that reward it in the queues, well I'm just not having fun.
3 quickies meant I didn't have to grind 2 hours of the same 3 missions to support my small but growing fleet.
3 20 min+ missions means I have no choice but to grind twice a day when possible on the same missions over and over during the events just to keep up the pace and keep my fleet happy.
I get why this happened, but I surely don't get why this isn't being announced hand-in-hand with an alternative to those damn fleet queues.
Oh, and my 2EC? trash this daily, grant all missions that "count" a flat FM and Dil gain.
Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]'Iw HaH je Hoch! ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3 A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome. Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
Well, you can grind with time, or pay with money...that's the way they've designed things.
Again I'm glad they're getting rid of this 'free' and 'easy' way to exploit the system.
Earn your stuff instead of expecting to get free handouts :P
Or just subscribe and get a boost to help ya with a bit less grinding required
The very idea of dailies just irks me. Players should have options, one of those could be to convert a daily into a weekly with 7x the reward (or perhaps maybe just 5x the reward) so that those with less time won't feel as if they're falling behind those with tons of time to burn.
Brandon asked me for some more information, so here it is.
We have listened to the feedback of the Foundry author community, and have taken steps to encourage our players to play some of the missions created by their fellow players. To that end, we have made some changes to the Investigate Officer Reports daily mission:
Fast "clickie" missions are not eligible for daily because they discourage exploring the community authored stories.
Longer, well-crafted missions have always granted XP and EC at the end, and will continue to do so. Missions with no combat will also still grant diplomacy points.
These longer, well-crafted missions are the ones that will be eligible for the Foundry Daily.
Fast, Kill-One-Guy or Click-One-Console missions will not give credit for the daily.
Non-combat missions are still eligible for the daily.
A nice side effect of this will be to make the Hot filter more useful, as it will no longer be so dense with short "clickie" missions.
Hope this clarifies things for all of you. And now I have to get back into my hidey-hole, preparing Season 7 patch notes and builds and stuff.
I think it's great this change is being made, but why even keep the "Investigate Officer Reports" daily at all in that case? Why not make it so individual Foundry missions give the EXP and rewards regardless of the daily?
There are two major problems with the daily:
Why do you need to play three missions to get rewards, rather than one? Most Cryptic missions are not longer than 30 minutes and they give you rewards. On average, I don't think most Foundry missions are less than 30 minutes, so why are we being so heavily penalized?
Why should players not be able to get experience and rewards for playing more than 3 Foundry missions per day? Why is there this artificial limit gating rewards for Foundry missions.
This is a step in the right direction, but it's only a small step. I hope it's just the first of many improvements to the reward structure for Foundry missions.
Well, you can grind with time, or pay with money...that's the way they've designed things.
Again I'm glad they're getting rid of this 'free' and 'easy' way to exploit the system.
Earn your stuff instead of expecting to get free handouts :P
Or just subscribe and get a boost to help ya with a bit less grinding required
That is all well and good for Dilithium... but I was specifically speaking to the lossof Fleet Marks, which there are simply not enough ways to gain.
Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]'Iw HaH je Hoch! ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3 A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome. Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
I think it's great this change is being made, but why even keep the "Investigate Officer Reports" daily at all in that case? Why not make it so individual Foundry missions give the EXP and rewards regardless of the daily?
There are two major problems with the daily:
Why do you need to play three missions to get rewards, rather than one? Most Cryptic missions are not longer than 30 minutes and they give you rewards. On average, I don't think most Foundry missions are less than 30 minutes, so why are we being so heavily penalized?
Why should players not be able to get experience and rewards for playing more than 3 Foundry missions per day? Why is there this artificial limit gating rewards for Foundry missions.
This is a step in the right direction, but it's only a small step. I hope it's just the first of many improvements to the reward structure for Foundry missions.
They will only take, not give. I will not ever play a foundry mission anymore.
And if you think this is a improvement, I hope they will remove some foundry stuff, and make you pay money for using the editor, I think that will be a improvement and idiots like you leaving the game.
Is this why all the good dev's left ???
Keybind: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=9355971&postcount=463
Bone1970 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone Trader don't belief in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone2 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. KDF Eng.
Warning: Not a native English-speaker, sorry if my English sucks.
They will only take, not give. I will not ever play a foundry mission anymore.
And if you think this is a improvement, I hope they will remove some foundry stuff, and make you pay money for using the editor, I think that will be a improvement and idiots like you leaving the game.
Is this why all the good dev's left ???
If you're using the Foundry daily to just grind dilithium then you weren't playing Foundry missions in the first place. There was no point having a mission that people just used to grind. It was supposed to encourage people to play Foundry missions by getting a reward.
The fact that it was instead used as an exploit to grind dilithium means that it was not implemented right, and for that matter still isn't.
I don't care if you play Foundry missions or not, to be honest. My Foundry missions with or without daily have about the worst time/reward balance anyway.
That being said, if your problem is that it's hard to get dilithium that has nothing to do with the Foundry or Foundry daily. That's a separate issue, that at most was only being covered up by the Foundry daily.
Come on, there should never have been clickies in the first place, Tiny. ^^ You've gutta admit that.
I'd actually like to have to play just one foundry mission to complete the daily, but it has to be either a featured episode from previous / modern times, or a foundry mission with at least 15 minutes length (be it one map you just wait until the time is over or you actually do something is up to you).
"Everything about the Jham'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
That is all well and good for Dilithium... but I was specifically speaking to the lossof Fleet Marks, which there are simply not enough ways to gain.
Bull****. There are PLENTY of ways to get Fleet Marks but you and others are too damn lazy and self-entitled whiny BRATS to actually EARN your stuff. I wasn't even a Lieutenant-Commander and I'd already earned about 500+ fleet marks just grinding SB24 Fleet Action for an hour. If it really bugs you that much, just spam the SB24 stuff for your level and hop to it. Yes it'll take time but that's kinda the point of an MMO. You spend time to get the shinies :P
May the clicky easy-win foundry missions burn in the fires of Gre'Thor.
They will only take, not give. I will not ever play a foundry mission anymore.
And if you think this is a improvement, I hope they will remove some foundry stuff, and make you pay money for using the editor, I think that will be a improvement and idiots like you leaving the game.
Is this why all the good dev's left ???
If anybody should be leaving the game, it should be you. :mad:
You should be happy the Foundry exists at all and that they didn't fix the exploit until now, instead of demanding Foundry authors get punished for their creativity and the fact that they are ADDING CONTENT EQUAL TO OR BETTER THAN CRYPTIC'S OWN.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Comments
part wishfull thinking, part obvious.
they will add that Reputation Sytem to EVERYTHING now...
i expect to get at least 2 more Reputation Trees / Tabs with every Season to keep the grind going.
in the last P1 interview with Geko they've gone through the list of what is *possible* with it and they mentioned pretty much every Species and System down to "PVP Reputation".
These 2 Borg + Rom are just the beginning.
Geko did not mention the Foundry, but it is only a logical assumption that at some point it will get in their crosshair too (and imho the foundry needs it the most to make people play that stuff, of course first the exploit had to go
So S7 takes away from the game and adds stuff I don't care for. My fleet base will never get finished now. The more you take away b/c of a few QQers, the less people will play your game. The less people you have, the less $ you take in. At some point the QQers will be left without anyone to complain to when they shut down the servers.
For the first time, I regret going lifetime. To disable an aspect of a game that I made this purchase upon is nothing short of a bait-n-switch.
Season 7: Shaka, when the walls fell.
Fleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
Foundry Mission Database
Check out my Foundry missions:
Standalone - The Great Escape - The Galaxy's Fair - Purity I: Of Denial - Return to Oblivion
Untitled Series - Duritanium Man - The Improbable Bulk - Commander Rihan
And the list of people complaining because they were deliberately using this exploit keeps growing - comical
Don't anyone dare say they created 10+ alts to just do this missions say "i had no idea this was something that wasn't intended" - you will just make yourself look foolish.
Just to set the record straight. There wasnt anyone QQing over this. It was an EXPLOIT that cryptic fixed. Ill admit, i used it myself. I knew it would not last forever, it couldnt because it was simply an exploit. I can fully understand why it has been taken away.
I do feel the reward should be used for spotlighted missions, and have to do only 1 every 20hrs.
:rolleyes:
The reality of the situation is that it was the will of the market, the customer base, reflected in playing habits. It is a sign that the game has been made into too much of a resource grind. The true problem was not the use of the "exploit," but the crushing grind that drove people to it in the first place.
And no, the net result is not going to be more people paying real money for dilithium and giving the "legitimate" foundry missions another look. The result will be small fleets abandoning Base development projects and many people ignoring the foundry entirely until another "exploit" is found.
You can either continue to fight a losing battle against free will, or respond to the desires of your customer base.
Granted, they took a looooonnnggg time to do something to prevent the one-click foundry abuse, but fixing something that wasn't intended from the start can't serously be seen as "TRIBBLE someone over".
I refused to do the clickies for a long time out of principle but have to admit that I weakened later on when I discovered that using those missions was something everyone was doing without hesitation.
My hope is that they succeed in making the Foundry rewards worthwhile, so that we as players can not only enjoy the hard work of dedicated authors but can at the same time work towards our goals ingame (be it gear or resources for bases etc.)
I don't really buy the argument. Let's say that STO's system was entirely fair and reasonable according to whatever standards you have. But, let's say there was a npc at ESD who was just giving away 1440 dilithium, due to an exploit.
People would be standing at that npc 24/7 no matter how reasonable or unreasonable the grinding is. It's free stuff through an exploit. People would do it for the sole reason that it saved them a trip through sector space or something.
No, but that doesn't mean the amount of time I'm willing to devote to it will be unlimited. There is a balance to be struck there, and I'm not accepting the false dichotomy of "endless grind" vs. "instant gratification" as the end of the discussion.
It's a cop-out to lump people who do it by necessity with the people who will always look for free stuff. The fact is it would take WAY longer than its worth to pile up all of the needed resources "legitimately."
Should people be excluded from a large portion of the content in a game they pay to play because they'd rather have a tiny fleet of friends than submit to the will of a giant fleet of strangers? No. Is extending the grind a good way of stretching the content? No.
These are two different issues. An exploit shouldn't be neccessary to aquire ingame resource with a reasonable time:gain factor (not to mention fun).
So, while I do agree that it should be possible to get the stuff one needs in a reasonably fashion, I don't agree that on these ground an exploit should be left in the game.
We don't really give a damn if you're sad. The way you describe your mission means that it doesn't have any objectives to complete and thus isn't eligible for the daily. Go work on it and make it better instead of 'being sad'. :P
Also you said it yourself 'experimental' so go work on it to make it release-worthy :P
As for the topic at hand, I'm glad they're making this change. I'm surprised that they even allow Foundry missions to 'count' at all towards dailies or anything else in the 'regular' game. Be glad that they do :P
Why Season 7 is better than you realize
Raise Refining Cap for Gold/Lifetime!
One thing though... I would spend about 30 min running through my alts, clicking through Quickies, and earning about 300 FM, never mind the Dil.
I have no issue not having to repetitively click through all my alts to get this. What I need to know however is that the other 3 hours of my night I spend in game will be rewarded with FM, at or near a similar rate (300FM/nightly).
I just want to play STO, not grind it. But if the only way I'm going to find FM is going to be through those few missions that reward it in the queues, well I'm just not having fun.
3 quickies meant I didn't have to grind 2 hours of the same 3 missions to support my small but growing fleet.
3 20 min+ missions means I have no choice but to grind twice a day when possible on the same missions over and over during the events just to keep up the pace and keep my fleet happy.
I get why this happened, but I surely don't get why this isn't being announced hand-in-hand with an alternative to those damn fleet queues.
Oh, and my 2EC? trash this daily, grant all missions that "count" a flat FM and Dil gain.
ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
Again I'm glad they're getting rid of this 'free' and 'easy' way to exploit the system.
Earn your stuff instead of expecting to get free handouts :P
Or just subscribe and get a boost to help ya with a bit less grinding required
The very idea of dailies just irks me. Players should have options, one of those could be to convert a daily into a weekly with 7x the reward (or perhaps maybe just 5x the reward) so that those with less time won't feel as if they're falling behind those with tons of time to burn.
Why Season 7 is better than you realize
Raise Refining Cap for Gold/Lifetime!
I think it's great this change is being made, but why even keep the "Investigate Officer Reports" daily at all in that case? Why not make it so individual Foundry missions give the EXP and rewards regardless of the daily?
There are two major problems with the daily:
This is a step in the right direction, but it's only a small step. I hope it's just the first of many improvements to the reward structure for Foundry missions.
Click here for my Foundry tutorial on Creating A Custom Interior Map.
That is all well and good for Dilithium... but I was specifically speaking to the lossof Fleet Marks, which there are simply not enough ways to gain.
ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
They will only take, not give. I will not ever play a foundry mission anymore.
And if you think this is a improvement, I hope they will remove some foundry stuff, and make you pay money for using the editor, I think that will be a improvement and idiots like you leaving the game.
Is this why all the good dev's left ???
Bone1970 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone Trader don't belief in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone2 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. KDF Eng.
Warning: Not a native English-speaker, sorry if my English sucks.
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
Freudian slip masterclass. ^^
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
If you're using the Foundry daily to just grind dilithium then you weren't playing Foundry missions in the first place. There was no point having a mission that people just used to grind. It was supposed to encourage people to play Foundry missions by getting a reward.
The fact that it was instead used as an exploit to grind dilithium means that it was not implemented right, and for that matter still isn't.
I don't care if you play Foundry missions or not, to be honest. My Foundry missions with or without daily have about the worst time/reward balance anyway.
That being said, if your problem is that it's hard to get dilithium that has nothing to do with the Foundry or Foundry daily. That's a separate issue, that at most was only being covered up by the Foundry daily.
Click here for my Foundry tutorial on Creating A Custom Interior Map.
No it isn't
I'd actually like to have to play just one foundry mission to complete the daily, but it has to be either a featured episode from previous / modern times, or a foundry mission with at least 15 minutes length (be it one map you just wait until the time is over or you actually do something is up to you).
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
Bull****. There are PLENTY of ways to get Fleet Marks but you and others are too damn lazy and self-entitled whiny BRATS to actually EARN your stuff. I wasn't even a Lieutenant-Commander and I'd already earned about 500+ fleet marks just grinding SB24 Fleet Action for an hour. If it really bugs you that much, just spam the SB24 stuff for your level and hop to it. Yes it'll take time but that's kinda the point of an MMO. You spend time to get the shinies :P
May the clicky easy-win foundry missions burn in the fires of Gre'Thor.
Why Season 7 is better than you realize
Raise Refining Cap for Gold/Lifetime!
i agree my only source of marks is going bye bye and 3 man fleet is hard enough with this TRIBBLE.
remove dilth from daily not marks
I think he means they can't use clickies to get free marks anymore
Foundry Mission Database
Check out my Foundry missions:
Standalone - The Great Escape - The Galaxy's Fair - Purity I: Of Denial - Return to Oblivion
Untitled Series - Duritanium Man - The Improbable Bulk - Commander Rihan
But the wrapper will still give marks, right?
My character Tsin'xing
If anybody should be leaving the game, it should be you. :mad:
You should be happy the Foundry exists at all and that they didn't fix the exploit until now, instead of demanding Foundry authors get punished for their creativity and the fact that they are ADDING CONTENT EQUAL TO OR BETTER THAN CRYPTIC'S OWN.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.