You know, I'd gladly give up dilithium exchange, in order to get rid of these moronic dilithium sinks that are ruining the game.
As a fleet leader, this is insanity, and I think someone is telling me STFs dont give dilithium anymore, and fleet marks aren't even part of the foundry dailies.
This is a good way to get players to quit, as half my fleet and I are now considering.
Good job Cryptic, good job.
I can explain this.
A very basic economic analysis would suggest that Cryptic benefits the more buying power dilithium has over ZEN and the less buying power ZEN has over dilithium. This makes people who sell dilithium happy because they can buy out the C-Store. This makes people who sell ZEN happy in the eyes of an economist (who would claim that people's real values are expressed through economic choices and that what people SAY about how happy they are is irrelevant).
This ignores several key points.
First there's the economic concept of externalities. This is most commonly applied to costs not included in a calculation because they don't have to be paid upfront, like pollution. In this case, there are behavioral externalities like addiction and fatigue.
The more important thing is the assumption that there will be enough volume of transactions at the higher price to make up for lost volume.
Let's say I can sell five glasses of lemonade at $1. I make $5, without factoring costs.
Now if I can raise the price to $2 and sell at least three, it's better off in theory because now I made $6 and had less overhead. I would dispute this really works as often as people think it does because of externalities like lost customers which makes you more reliant on a smaller base of customers and more sensitive to their cash flow. In this case, if one loses their job, I'm down to $4.
What Cryptic is doing is raising the price, indirectly through market manipulation, to $3 a lemonade under the idea they only have to sell two lemonades to improve their gross. The problem is that they may only sell one or even close to none.
It would be great if you could sell that lemonade for $10 million a glass but you need the value behind it to do so.
I'd agree with an economist who says that people paying more ZEN per dilithium in volume means happy customers who value content highly. The problem is with assuming that by charging people more Zen per dilithium, it will make them happier.
Stoleviathan99 - are you ignoring me? Did you see my post saying you need some rest? Personally I think you are one of the most intelligent people on here - perhaps too intelligent for your own good!
I have noticed a shift in your sentiment over the last few weeks and it is definitely taking on a much more dire tone.
I see this a a Harbinger of very bad things to come.
Stoleviathan99 - are you ignoring me? Did you see my post saying you need some rest? Personally I think you are one of the most intelligent people on here - perhaps too intelligent for your own good!
I have noticed a shift in your sentiment over the last few weeks and it is definitely taking on a much more dire tone.
I see this a a Harbinger of very bad things to come.
I thought you were kidding.
I may take some time off. I'm headed on a trip next weekend. That may be good for the nerves. I'm trying to hold off on deciding whether to take a more extended hiatus from STO and the forums based on the blogs next week.
I really want to believe in the devs but I'm not sure we share the same values. My attitude is that I'm very unhappy but I can't rightly make a hard decision until I let them explain the half-finished stuff we've seen so far and how flexible they are to feedback. My gut says not very on the latter point but after spending more on this game than my first car, I want to give the devs the benefit of the doubt.
I don't think some people understand taking something this seriously but the thing for me is that with the kind of money we're invited to spend, I can't see how not to. If you spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on something, it's serious business.
I'm not going to pay money for Duty officers. I'll just not use the system anymore, and keep myself to the free to play parts.
Especially not for items I could get freely before, but which will have a ludicrous cost now.
If Cryptic wants to make sales on Duty officers..... then make a good duty officer pack, that gives like 4 blue and 1 purple officer! Or for an additional cost, 5 purples, or 5 blue officers of a specific type like tactical.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I may take some time off. I'm headed on a trip next weekend. That may be good for the nerves. I'm trying to hold off on deciding whether to take a more extended hiatus from STO and the forums based on the blogs next week.
I really want to believe in the devs but I'm not sure we share the same values. My attitude is that I'm very unhappy but I can't rightly make a hard decision until I let them explain the half-finished stuff we've seen so far and how flexible they are to feedback. My gut says not very on the latter point but after spending more on this game than my first car, I want to give the devs the benefit of the doubt.
I don't think some people understand taking something this seriously but the thing for me is that with the kind of money we're invited to spend, I can't see how not to. If you spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on something, it's serious business.
Simple fact of the matter is that just about any online interaction can very well develop into a community, a very real "place." To many of us that are strongly invested, even though this is "just a game," we have accomplished things here, bought things, won things, made friends, and made heavy investments of time, money and emotions.
It is far too easy for people not associated with this to ignore and even laugh at these attachments, though if similar things were taken from them, they would probably be just as upset, if not moreso. I imagine that we would see a lot of "not-nerd rage" if the NFL closed its doors tomorrow, to the point that there would probably be criminal activities. It is, in fact, far too easy for us to discount EACH OTHER AS PEOPLE in an online context (this has been studied a fair amount, see - Media Richness Theory, that dates back to the 1980s). So we're sitting in an odd place here.
That said, to be so attached to this sort of thing is understandable, and frankly, it would probably be pretty strange if it wasn't there. I imagine this will be more commonly understood as more and more people who grew up with the Internet come to find this sort of thing a part of life, but that obviously hasn't happened yet. So while it's "just a game," it also isn't.
Unfortunately with an MMO that means that shop was set up on the lawn of rich executives who see us not as people, but as wallets, and will likely only find out this sort of thing if he's not fast enough to get out of the hot seat before the shareholders come after him for wrecking a lot of the company's games to make a few quarters look good with no regard to the future earnings. So we are potential collateral damage. I imagine that eventually bandwidth and processing power may become cheap enough that a community-owned MMO may become viable (there are a few small ones out there already) and these companies will be forced to think differently or else they may be driven out of business by free competitors.
Let me be blunt here cryptic try to
Understand a lot of your current customers
May feel as I do
I play stfs with my fleet and we have fun doing it.
We get loot to sell and once I'n a great while a
Piece might even be useful to us
We get dilithum too we use it on the starbase
We get the STF salvage some we buy gear with
Some we sell for dilithum to grind on the damn starbase
Now you mean to eliminate or reduce the dilithium from
The STF missions ?
You mean to eliminate the loot drops ?
The stfs are the ONLY fun thing to do I'n the
ENTIRE game
Remove the rewards and add costs ?
Gear and weapons dilithium costs
Doffs Dilithium costs
Way to get dilithium I'n a fun way curtailed
Or eliminated ?
I see doom I'n your future paychecks because
Once the majority of players feel this they will
Leave for a FUN game to play
You need to seriously reconsider your decisions
Or start looking at job classifieds I'n your spare
Time
If it isn't fun they won't play period
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I'm not going to pay money for Duty officers. I'll just not use the system anymore, and keep myself to the free to play parts.
Especially not for items I could get freely before, but which will have a ludicrous cost now.
If Cryptic wants to make sales on Duty officers..... then make a good duty officer pack, that gives like 4 blue and 1 purple officer! Or for an additional cost, 5 purples, or 5 blue officers of a specific type like tactical.
This is a good point - do we have any confirmation if the non-DOff pack recruiting missions are going to require dil? I know the grinders are going to, but I'm talking about generic DOff recruitment (e.g. asking for Naussicans or asking for Tactical Officers).
I may take some time off. I'm headed on a trip next weekend. That may be good for the nerves. I'm trying to hold off on deciding whether to take a more extended hiatus from STO and the forums based on the blogs next week.
Have a good time on the trip - during my real push a few weeks back to get the tier 3 base done I took a few days off - it was very good for the soul. I to have put more than $400 dollars into this game - which is a lot for me - and a lot for video game standards. (although since S6 I have not put a dime into it other than my monthly $10 sub)
Add to that the - and it makes me a little sick to say this - 3000 hrs on this game - the things i see coming down the pipe don't give me much encouragement.
Sure I will be able to turn their changes into billions of EC and add to the $700 million I have already - even while putting $800 million into the starbase - what is it worth if there is nothing to do - or no game left to use it on!
This is a good point - do we have any confirmation if the non-DOff pack recruiting missions are going to require dil? I know the grinders are going to, but I'm talking about generic DOff recruitment (e.g. asking for Naussicans or asking for Tactical Officers).
Not that i have heard - only 1k dilth for the Junior officer pack assignment. Where this is going to present the biggest problem is that starbases starting with the T3 upgrades require green doffs so they have you with the 500 dilth cost to grind 5 into 1 green.
Not that i have heard - only 1k dilth for the Junior officer pack assignment. Where this is going to present the biggest problem is that starbases starting with the T3 upgrades require green doffs so they have you with the 500 dilth cost to grind 5 into 1 green.
Actually, for all the rage about STFs, THIS is the problem that I find insurmountable. It's going to cause starbase grinding to simply flat-out die in most cases. I would imagine that even in the largest fleets it would slow to a crawl as someone occasionally chucks in a valuable DOff here or there.
While people may be enraged at how much work they're going to do for STFs, in a month much of the anger will likely be forgotten. But if the raw materials (which are apparently also raw recruits - apparently Soylent Starbase is made of redshirts, as we all suspected) for these systems are so badly bottlenecked, people are just going to stop dead in their tracks.
I did some very rough math, and the cost per starbase project - let alone tier - got to be pretty bad. It was done with some pretty rough assumptions, though, e.g. most dil was purchased, ignored market fluctuations that were possible, assumed most DOffs came from the packs, etc. PWE's estimate, according to some source I can't recall (I think it was Forbes, but not sure) said something like $2.5K per completed T5 starbase was what was projected. This might be how they plan on getting it.
Emphasis being "plan," seeing as how people will probably first and foremost get their STF gear in order, assuming they even bother with any of this. A nice fancy fleet ship will do squat for someone with standard shields, after all.
DISCLAIMER: Could be wrong on any of this, but this is accurate to the best of my current knowledge.
That said, to be so attached to this sort of thing is understandable, and frankly, it would probably be pretty strange if it wasn't there. I imagine this will be more commonly understood as more and more people who grew up with the Internet come to find this sort of thing a part of life, but that obviously hasn't happened yet. So while it's "just a game," it also isn't.
I don't think the devs understand the extent of it and they make the game. Maybe it's just that I've never made over $20,000 and I'm a small fry at the country club but if you follow their twitters or talk to them, they always see the forums as overblown bluster. Geko linked to a post on STO Wiki on Friday that basically said as much.
I don't understand their perspective or how they can be less wrapped up in this than people here are. I'm not the best at accomplishing it but people, I think, feed on the approval of other people. There's no one alive whose approval I wouldn't want if I thought I could get it.
I let myself get dragged back into this discussion and I shouldn't have. Time for a break.
Game forums in general are known to be stereotyped as the place where petulant man-children rant and rave about everything that's "wrong" with the game. Therefore, there's no such thing as "bad press" on the forums, because by association, forums are known to be nothing but the home of ranting tirades. Rarely, someone in the game press will refer to a game's forums, but only to reinforce something already in a story. Press or breaking info rarely starts wholly from the forums (usually Marketing posts something elsewhere first or in conjunction with a thread), because, by their reputation, no one but die-hard fans and community reps read them.
Get some perspective - it's a video game.
People will complain incessantly on the forums about even the most trivial things. Look, I understand that you're upset about your ship's turn rate or the latest "nerf" for whatever. It doesn't main you have to go on a tirade every chance you get. You're in your 30s for crying out loud, be mature and realize that it's just a video game. Otherwise you just end up getting wrapped around the axle and looking like this guy, getting kicked off the forums and keeping track of every little developer-induced injustice from your secret underground lair (read: mother's basement). Is this how you want to live your life? Or would you rather enjoy a warm summer day with friends and/or loved ones and blow up some Borg when you want to relax and put your feet up? That's what I thought.
Yes, (almost) no one cares about the forums but...Do you remember SOE/SWG/NGE? So, (almost) no one cares about the STO players comunity? Forum, in game zone chats, Fleets forums...That is the STO players comunity and I think the incoming S7 changes dont like.
Honestly, if these changes go through, I may just stop playing. I love the doff system how it is. I don't have to play the normal game to have fun. Making it impossible to play the doff system, without grinding for dilithium will completely ruin the game for me.
I don't think the devs understand the extent of it and they make the game. Maybe it's just that I've never made over $20,000 and I'm a small fry at the country club but if you follow their twitters or talk to them, they always see the forums as overblown bluster. Geko linked to a post on STO Wiki on Friday that basically said as much.
I don't understand their perspective or how they can be less wrapped up in this than people here are. I'm not the best at accomplishing it but people, I think, feed on the approval of other people. There's no one alive whose approval I wouldn't want if I thought I could get it.
I let myself get dragged back into this discussion and I shouldn't have. Time for a break.
Well, I'd say that most of the stuff on the forums IS "over-blown bluster". That's pretty much a given when you have posts made based on nothing but nerd-rage. I remember the Nerd-rage when the Jem ship was released. Peeps were complaining about how there were so few and that they were the "best" ship in the game, and etc, etc, etc.......
It literally happens EVERY time the Devs add/change/remove anything that people actually notice.
After looking at the new dil costs in person.... enh, they're not bad. The compactor was a bit too cheap before, IMO. you're not supposed to compact every doff you get.
1k dil for general recruitment every few days isn't much of a decrease in "income". Honestly, any cost below 500 dil would be too trivial to be meaningful. And 500 is the new cost of the whtie>green compactor.
I don't think the devs understand the extent of it and they make the game. Maybe it's just that I've never made over $20,000 and I'm a small fry at the country club but if you follow their twitters or talk to them, they always see the forums as overblown bluster. Geko linked to a post on STO Wiki on Friday that basically said as much.
I don't understand their perspective or how they can be less wrapped up in this than people here are. I'm not the best at accomplishing it but people, I think, feed on the approval of other people. There's no one alive whose approval I wouldn't want if I thought I could get it.
I let myself get dragged back into this discussion and I shouldn't have. Time for a break.
The very fact that Geko even linked that, validates his, and the rest of the devs complete detachment from their own playerbase.
This is just another example ( among many ) where the devs declare "oh they are just whining over nothing, they should worship me for the work I do for them LOLZ." An attempt to live in their own imaginary land, that isn't even on a currently running STO server.
Just remember, Stahl is concentrating on "EndGame Content" is all they are focusing on, it is just another way of saying, "we are just finding more ways to squeeze our playerbase dry, with recycled content."
Remember the company Stahl worked for? Remember when all of this garbage started?
After looking at the new dil costs in person.... enh, they're not bad. The compactor was a bit too cheap before, IMO. you're not supposed to compact every doff you get.
Then tell me, what are yiou supposed to do with all those white doffs if you don;t have a SB to fee them to, what are SB's a T3+ supposed to do to get mass quantaties of greens?
The grinder is the only thing that makes them useful. I might as well just dismiss them with this change, and since bassiclly all doffs are white from the recruitment missions that means i might as well stop using them at all.
Then tell me, what are yiou supposed to do with all those white doffs if you don;t have a SB to fee them to, what are SB's a T3+ supposed to do to get mass quantaties of greens?
The grinder is the only thing that makes them useful. I might as well just dismiss them with this change, and since bassiclly all doffs are white from the recruitment missions that means i might as well stop using them at all.
yep pretty much this, 90% of the doffs you get are whites and if the charge additional time for it (aka dilithium) to gain them and then more time to actually make them somewhat useful aka green or blue its pointless, its not like you dont already spent a quite long time go throught the grinder in the first place.
To just make on single purple you need 125 whites and then you have a random chance to get anything... oh boy how I love it when you get a purple chef.
Well, I'd say that most of the stuff on the forums IS "over-blown bluster". That's pretty much a given when you have posts made based on nothing but nerd-rage. I remember the Nerd-rage when the Jem ship was released. Peeps were complaining about how there were so few and that they were the "best" ship in the game, and etc, etc, etc.......
It literally happens EVERY time the Devs add/change/remove anything that people actually notice.
After looking at the new dil costs in person.... enh, they're not bad. The compactor was a bit too cheap before, IMO. you're not supposed to compact every doff you get.
1k dil for general recruitment every few days isn't much of a decrease in "income". Honestly, any cost below 500 dil would be too trivial to be meaningful. And 500 is the new cost of the whtie>green compactor.
The voice of reason xD Be silent , we don't want to hear you on these forums :-P
Doffs are too cheap to get now. This really shows in the speed we are getting T3 an T4 starbases. Something which occupy small fleets for years has be done in a few months by a single persoun o.O
The cost for upgrading the boffs are high. They should be cut down especially if we need a lot of purple doffs for the starbases.
The only persoun who are really affected by these changes are nor the casual players but the hardcore players who wants to build his starbase alone AND get all the ships AND wants 300 purple doffs.
The very fact that Geko even linked that, validates his, and the rest of the devs complete detachment from their own playerbase.
This is just another example ( among many ) where the devs declare "oh they are just whining over nothing, they should worship me for the work I do for them LOLZ." An attempt to live in their own imaginary land, that isn't even on a currently running STO server.
Just remember, Stahl is concentrating on "EndGame Content" is all they are focusing on, it is just another way of saying, "we are just finding more ways to squeeze our playerbase dry, with recycled content."
Remember the company Stahl worked for? Remember when all of this garbage started?
The forums is NOT the playerbase ;-) Just a very special bunch of players reads AND comments on the forum. Do any PUG Elite STF. Most of the time 50% of them even don't know that distance reduces your damage. Even people with over 100STF's and 6500accolades points. They don't care !!!
This is absolutely ridiculous, how are we supposed to grind for two Reputation systems, Starbases and DOFFs. Starbase projects are going to cease to progress.
Do any PUG Elite STF. Most of the time 50% of them even don't know that distance reduces your damage. Even people with over 100STF's and 6500accolades points. They don't care !!!
The horror... recently I did a pug ISE... they failed the optional in the first 2 minutes and if I hadn't been there with my dps escort they still would kill spheres..
And its not like there where only standard ships... more like the opposite.
Then tell me, what are yiou supposed to do with all those white doffs if you don;t have a SB to fee them to, what are SB's a T3+ supposed to do to get mass quantaties of greens?
The grinder is the only thing that makes them useful. I might as well just dismiss them with this change, and since bassiclly all doffs are white from the recruitment missions that means i might as well stop using them at all.
Most of them get sent to Bajor/Cardassia/wherever the Karemma and Paradans live.
works nicely and I get a nice number of blues and purples out of the deal.
@Mewi: the Devs do pay attention, but they ignore NerdRage. So.... if you have comments, skip the Nerdrage.
who in the blue hell thought this was a smart change that would be healthy for the game? the changes are so steep it's f'n vertical! far far too negative on the game. best leaving it as it was? as some one else said if it's not broken why change it?
Comments
had a few of those - sold them up around 100 million each - now they are what 80? not that interested still - maybe later.
Personally holding out for the vesta to add to my 11 c-store ship fleet
I have not even got a fleet ship yet even though I have my own personal T3 shipyard
I just don't like the idea a character unlock only ships
I can explain this.
A very basic economic analysis would suggest that Cryptic benefits the more buying power dilithium has over ZEN and the less buying power ZEN has over dilithium. This makes people who sell dilithium happy because they can buy out the C-Store. This makes people who sell ZEN happy in the eyes of an economist (who would claim that people's real values are expressed through economic choices and that what people SAY about how happy they are is irrelevant).
This ignores several key points.
First there's the economic concept of externalities. This is most commonly applied to costs not included in a calculation because they don't have to be paid upfront, like pollution. In this case, there are behavioral externalities like addiction and fatigue.
The more important thing is the assumption that there will be enough volume of transactions at the higher price to make up for lost volume.
Let's say I can sell five glasses of lemonade at $1. I make $5, without factoring costs.
Now if I can raise the price to $2 and sell at least three, it's better off in theory because now I made $6 and had less overhead. I would dispute this really works as often as people think it does because of externalities like lost customers which makes you more reliant on a smaller base of customers and more sensitive to their cash flow. In this case, if one loses their job, I'm down to $4.
What Cryptic is doing is raising the price, indirectly through market manipulation, to $3 a lemonade under the idea they only have to sell two lemonades to improve their gross. The problem is that they may only sell one or even close to none.
It would be great if you could sell that lemonade for $10 million a glass but you need the value behind it to do so.
I'd agree with an economist who says that people paying more ZEN per dilithium in volume means happy customers who value content highly. The problem is with assuming that by charging people more Zen per dilithium, it will make them happier.
I have noticed a shift in your sentiment over the last few weeks and it is definitely taking on a much more dire tone.
I see this a a Harbinger of very bad things to come.
That's too funny, thnx!!
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I thought you were kidding.
I may take some time off. I'm headed on a trip next weekend. That may be good for the nerves. I'm trying to hold off on deciding whether to take a more extended hiatus from STO and the forums based on the blogs next week.
I really want to believe in the devs but I'm not sure we share the same values. My attitude is that I'm very unhappy but I can't rightly make a hard decision until I let them explain the half-finished stuff we've seen so far and how flexible they are to feedback. My gut says not very on the latter point but after spending more on this game than my first car, I want to give the devs the benefit of the doubt.
I don't think some people understand taking something this seriously but the thing for me is that with the kind of money we're invited to spend, I can't see how not to. If you spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on something, it's serious business.
Especially not for items I could get freely before, but which will have a ludicrous cost now.
If Cryptic wants to make sales on Duty officers..... then make a good duty officer pack, that gives like 4 blue and 1 purple officer! Or for an additional cost, 5 purples, or 5 blue officers of a specific type like tactical.
Simple fact of the matter is that just about any online interaction can very well develop into a community, a very real "place." To many of us that are strongly invested, even though this is "just a game," we have accomplished things here, bought things, won things, made friends, and made heavy investments of time, money and emotions.
It is far too easy for people not associated with this to ignore and even laugh at these attachments, though if similar things were taken from them, they would probably be just as upset, if not moreso. I imagine that we would see a lot of "not-nerd rage" if the NFL closed its doors tomorrow, to the point that there would probably be criminal activities. It is, in fact, far too easy for us to discount EACH OTHER AS PEOPLE in an online context (this has been studied a fair amount, see - Media Richness Theory, that dates back to the 1980s). So we're sitting in an odd place here.
That said, to be so attached to this sort of thing is understandable, and frankly, it would probably be pretty strange if it wasn't there. I imagine this will be more commonly understood as more and more people who grew up with the Internet come to find this sort of thing a part of life, but that obviously hasn't happened yet. So while it's "just a game," it also isn't.
Unfortunately with an MMO that means that shop was set up on the lawn of rich executives who see us not as people, but as wallets, and will likely only find out this sort of thing if he's not fast enough to get out of the hot seat before the shareholders come after him for wrecking a lot of the company's games to make a few quarters look good with no regard to the future earnings. So we are potential collateral damage. I imagine that eventually bandwidth and processing power may become cheap enough that a community-owned MMO may become viable (there are a few small ones out there already) and these companies will be forced to think differently or else they may be driven out of business by free competitors.
Just my (fairly off-topic) $0.02.
Understand a lot of your current customers
May feel as I do
I play stfs with my fleet and we have fun doing it.
We get loot to sell and once I'n a great while a
Piece might even be useful to us
We get dilithum too we use it on the starbase
We get the STF salvage some we buy gear with
Some we sell for dilithum to grind on the damn starbase
Now you mean to eliminate or reduce the dilithium from
The STF missions ?
You mean to eliminate the loot drops ?
The stfs are the ONLY fun thing to do I'n the
ENTIRE game
Remove the rewards and add costs ?
Gear and weapons dilithium costs
Doffs Dilithium costs
Way to get dilithium I'n a fun way curtailed
Or eliminated ?
I see doom I'n your future paychecks because
Once the majority of players feel this they will
Leave for a FUN game to play
You need to seriously reconsider your decisions
Or start looking at job classifieds I'n your spare
Time
If it isn't fun they won't play period
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
This is a good point - do we have any confirmation if the non-DOff pack recruiting missions are going to require dil? I know the grinders are going to, but I'm talking about generic DOff recruitment (e.g. asking for Naussicans or asking for Tactical Officers).
Have a good time on the trip - during my real push a few weeks back to get the tier 3 base done I took a few days off - it was very good for the soul. I to have put more than $400 dollars into this game - which is a lot for me - and a lot for video game standards. (although since S6 I have not put a dime into it other than my monthly $10 sub)
Add to that the - and it makes me a little sick to say this - 3000 hrs on this game - the things i see coming down the pipe don't give me much encouragement.
Sure I will be able to turn their changes into billions of EC and add to the $700 million I have already - even while putting $800 million into the starbase - what is it worth if there is nothing to do - or no game left to use it on!
Not that i have heard - only 1k dilth for the Junior officer pack assignment. Where this is going to present the biggest problem is that starbases starting with the T3 upgrades require green doffs so they have you with the 500 dilth cost to grind 5 into 1 green.
Actually, for all the rage about STFs, THIS is the problem that I find insurmountable. It's going to cause starbase grinding to simply flat-out die in most cases. I would imagine that even in the largest fleets it would slow to a crawl as someone occasionally chucks in a valuable DOff here or there.
While people may be enraged at how much work they're going to do for STFs, in a month much of the anger will likely be forgotten. But if the raw materials (which are apparently also raw recruits - apparently Soylent Starbase is made of redshirts, as we all suspected) for these systems are so badly bottlenecked, people are just going to stop dead in their tracks.
I did some very rough math, and the cost per starbase project - let alone tier - got to be pretty bad. It was done with some pretty rough assumptions, though, e.g. most dil was purchased, ignored market fluctuations that were possible, assumed most DOffs came from the packs, etc. PWE's estimate, according to some source I can't recall (I think it was Forbes, but not sure) said something like $2.5K per completed T5 starbase was what was projected. This might be how they plan on getting it.
Emphasis being "plan," seeing as how people will probably first and foremost get their STF gear in order, assuming they even bother with any of this. A nice fancy fleet ship will do squat for someone with standard shields, after all.
DISCLAIMER: Could be wrong on any of this, but this is accurate to the best of my current knowledge.
I don't think the devs understand the extent of it and they make the game. Maybe it's just that I've never made over $20,000 and I'm a small fry at the country club but if you follow their twitters or talk to them, they always see the forums as overblown bluster. Geko linked to a post on STO Wiki on Friday that basically said as much.
https://twitter.com/CaptainGeko/status/259441429137469440
I don't understand their perspective or how they can be less wrapped up in this than people here are. I'm not the best at accomplishing it but people, I think, feed on the approval of other people. There's no one alive whose approval I wouldn't want if I thought I could get it.
I let myself get dragged back into this discussion and I shouldn't have. Time for a break.
I'm al Rivera, and I approve this message.
......
(Almost) no one cares about the forums.
Game forums in general are known to be stereotyped as the place where petulant man-children rant and rave about everything that's "wrong" with the game. Therefore, there's no such thing as "bad press" on the forums, because by association, forums are known to be nothing but the home of ranting tirades. Rarely, someone in the game press will refer to a game's forums, but only to reinforce something already in a story. Press or breaking info rarely starts wholly from the forums (usually Marketing posts something elsewhere first or in conjunction with a thread), because, by their reputation, no one but die-hard fans and community reps read them.
Get some perspective - it's a video game.
People will complain incessantly on the forums about even the most trivial things. Look, I understand that you're upset about your ship's turn rate or the latest "nerf" for whatever. It doesn't main you have to go on a tirade every chance you get. You're in your 30s for crying out loud, be mature and realize that it's just a video game. Otherwise you just end up getting wrapped around the axle and looking like this guy, getting kicked off the forums and keeping track of every little developer-induced injustice from your secret underground lair (read: mother's basement). Is this how you want to live your life? Or would you rather enjoy a warm summer day with friends and/or loved ones and blow up some Borg when you want to relax and put your feet up? That's what I thought.
It literally happens EVERY time the Devs add/change/remove anything that people actually notice.
After looking at the new dil costs in person.... enh, they're not bad. The compactor was a bit too cheap before, IMO. you're not supposed to compact every doff you get.
1k dil for general recruitment every few days isn't much of a decrease in "income". Honestly, any cost below 500 dil would be too trivial to be meaningful. And 500 is the new cost of the whtie>green compactor.
My character Tsin'xing
The very fact that Geko even linked that, validates his, and the rest of the devs complete detachment from their own playerbase.
This is just another example ( among many ) where the devs declare "oh they are just whining over nothing, they should worship me for the work I do for them LOLZ." An attempt to live in their own imaginary land, that isn't even on a currently running STO server.
Just remember, Stahl is concentrating on "EndGame Content" is all they are focusing on, it is just another way of saying, "we are just finding more ways to squeeze our playerbase dry, with recycled content."
Remember the company Stahl worked for? Remember when all of this garbage started?
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Then tell me, what are yiou supposed to do with all those white doffs if you don;t have a SB to fee them to, what are SB's a T3+ supposed to do to get mass quantaties of greens?
The grinder is the only thing that makes them useful. I might as well just dismiss them with this change, and since bassiclly all doffs are white from the recruitment missions that means i might as well stop using them at all.
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
yep pretty much this, 90% of the doffs you get are whites and if the charge additional time for it (aka dilithium) to gain them and then more time to actually make them somewhat useful aka green or blue its pointless, its not like you dont already spent a quite long time go throught the grinder in the first place.
To just make on single purple you need 125 whites and then you have a random chance to get anything... oh boy how I love it when you get a purple chef.
The voice of reason xD Be silent , we don't want to hear you on these forums :-P
Doffs are too cheap to get now. This really shows in the speed we are getting T3 an T4 starbases. Something which occupy small fleets for years has be done in a few months by a single persoun o.O
The cost for upgrading the boffs are high. They should be cut down especially if we need a lot of purple doffs for the starbases.
The only persoun who are really affected by these changes are nor the casual players but the hardcore players who wants to build his starbase alone AND get all the ships AND wants 300 purple doffs.
The forums is NOT the playerbase ;-) Just a very special bunch of players reads AND comments on the forum. Do any PUG Elite STF. Most of the time 50% of them even don't know that distance reduces your damage. Even people with over 100STF's and 6500accolades points. They don't care !!!
The horror... recently I did a pug ISE... they failed the optional in the first 2 minutes and if I hadn't been there with my dps escort they still would kill spheres..
And its not like there where only standard ships... more like the opposite.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
works nicely and I get a nice number of blues and purples out of the deal.
@Mewi: the Devs do pay attention, but they ignore NerdRage. So.... if you have comments, skip the Nerdrage.
My character Tsin'xing