There was a Dev comment on the Borg Set Nerf, I doubt however there will be one in here, as the set Nerf can be explained by tying to balance the game. This cannot be explained that way, it's a cash grab.
It can be explained that way, but that's not why they're doing it. Still, there's no excuse whatsoever for these insane price increases. Truly shameful.
I'm now very glad i couldnt afford an LTS. It feels like a total utter TRIBBLE job at this point and Gene Roddenberry is rolling over in his ****ing grave. (proverbially)
I'm now hoping that ST actors will find out about this and get the money together to just BUY THESE PEOPLE OUT! This is a disgrace. Between this, the borg changes, and a number of other issues people have been talking about. I am VERY glad i will have the money to put into other games that i wont be spending on this. I was actually looking forward on tuesday to spending some money from my new job which starts next month on this game. GOD THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THIS ON THE FORUMS SO I SAVE MY MONEY!
I'll be honest, Rift and Guild Wars 2 are far better values for my cash at this point. So Congrats PWE. You've just lost a potential C-store buyer. Someone who is NEVER gonna touch gold options at this point aaand as a long time Trekkie hopes you burn in hell.
Cryptic employees: For the sake of trek lore, for the sake of your own sanity. Turn in your resignations today and start your own development house. Let this game die.
I’m a fleet leader of a 500 member fleet, I’m getting so many messages from my extreme players. These players are also the big spenders in my fleet with all the changes they are now talking about other gaming options. They are so mad.
Thanks for making Star Trek into Star Wars Galaxies make too many changes and your players move on.
"The Customer is always right" -- And in this case, the Customer hereby tells the execs, "Do not put these Dilithium with Duty Officer changes on Holodeck" :rolleyes:
---
"We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is futile."
Sincerely,
The Cube Assimilating Your Ship Right Now
"The Customer is always right" -- And in this case, the Customer hereby tells the execs, "Do not put these Dilithium with Duty Officer changes on Holodeck" :rolleyes:
HAH! "the customer is always right" is a stupid BS policy.
I'm not sure about the recruitment pack, but the compactor change makes some sense. Before you could get 5 commons from your fleet doff vendor, compact them for a nominal fee, then if you didn't like the result uncompact that for a second round.
Sigh. Another nail in the coffin of small/solo fleets advancing up the base tier system.
It's hard enough for small/solo fleets to get up to and beyond Tier 3 as it is, and now this?
I'm hoping SOMEONE at Cryptic comes to their senses in the next few weeks before Season 7 goes live and changes this. Have any devs or suits posted the reasoning behind this mess?
I'm not sure about the recruitment pack, but the compactor change makes some sense. Before you could get 5 commons from your fleet doff vendor, compact them for a nominal fee, then if you didn't like the result uncompact that for a second round.
You do realise the uncompators give less back than you used to compact in the first place. And even if that was the idea it's a stupid way of doing it becuase it ends up hurting everyone wanting high levels doffs. Contrary to claims in this thread i am not aware of any methods of reliably aquiring purple doffs that do not themselves require a high level doff input and that can be run en mass. All the other options are doff assignments that need high quality inputs to give slightly higher quality outputs.
Sigh. Another nail in the coffin of small/solo fleets advancing up the base tier system.
It's hard enough for small/solo fleets to get up to and beyond Tier 3 as it is, and now this?
I'm hoping SOMEONE at Cryptic comes to their senses in the next few weeks before Season 7 goes live and changes this. Have any devs or suits posted the reasoning behind this mess?
Agreed, it's sad for me as a small fleet owner just starting out, and also as an individual because this was one of the few ways I could afford to upgrade my doffs even if it was a very long process.
I'm now very glad i couldnt afford an LTS. It feels like a total utter TRIBBLE job at this point and Gene Roddenberry is rolling over in his ****ing grave. (proverbially)
I strongly disagree with the doff price changes but Roddenberry would not be spinning in his grave, figuratively, literally, or any other adverb.
Roddenberry didn't come up with Star Trek because he was some socialist Utopian hippie type that actually wanted the future to conform to his vision. He came up with Trek to get PAID.
Let me give you an example of how badly Gene wanted to get paid. Did you know that the opening theme music from TOS actually has lyrics that were written by Roddenberry? Know why he wrote lyrics? So he could claim half of the music composers royalty. He (luckily) backed off from using the lyrics, but it goes to show that what some people think of as Saint Gene was actually just a Hollywood producer who had a good idea and was more than happy to get what he could get out of it financially.
Nothing wrong with wanting to get paid either, but Cryptic is taking the dilithium surcharge thing just a bit far.
I strongly disagree with the doff price changes but Roddenberry would not be spinning in his grave, figuratively, literally, or any other adverb.
Roddenberry didn't come up with Star Trek because he was some socialist Utopian hippie type that actually wanted the future to conform to his vision. He came up with Trek to get PAID.
Let me give you an example of how badly Gene wanted to get paid. Did you know that the opening theme music from TOS actually has lyrics that were written by Roddenberry? Know why he wrote lyrics? So he could claim half of the music composers royalty. He (luckily) backed off from using the lyrics, but it goes to show that what some people think of as Saint Gene was actually just a Hollywood producer who had a good idea and was more than happy to get what he could get out of it financially.
Nothing wrong with wanting to get paid either, but Cryptic is taking the dilithium surcharge thing just a bit far.
There comes a point when getting too greedy will stop you getting paid.
Just like lyrics to the theme song would have cheesed the TOS to death and probably not have got past it's network pilot
There comes a point when getting too greedy will stop you getting paid.
Just like lyrics to the theme song would have cheesed the TOS to death and probably not have got past it's network pilot
Totally agree.
Just find it funny that people venerate Roddenberry as if he was some sort of religious Prophet, instead of recognizing that he was simply in it for the profit.
Seemed like a nice guy, who was very creative and came up with something I have enjoyed my entire life. He didn't, however, lay hands on the sick, walk on water, and certainly would not have turned down his share of lockbox proceeds, if he were entitled to any.
Random point, but it might help if you owned a few of the "making of books". I've got a couple. Roddenberry was no saint, but to suggest he didn;t inject a lot of his worldveiw into things is wrong. Dosen't mean they exactly matched his worldveiw in every respect, (for example AFAIK he saw the lack of money in trek as a natural result of having somthing like replicators. When everything is effectivlly free you naturally are going to see money die out), but to suggest he came up with it entierly for the money is as wrong as to suggets he was some saint.
I strongly disagree with the doff price changes but Roddenberry would not be spinning in his grave, figuratively, literally, or any other adverb.
Roddenberry didn't come up with Star Trek because he was some socialist Utopian hippie type that actually wanted the future to conform to his vision. He came up with Trek to get PAID.
Let me give you an example of how badly Gene wanted to get paid. Did you know that the opening theme music from TOS actually has lyrics that were written by Roddenberry? Know why he wrote lyrics? So he could claim half of the music composers royalty. He (luckily) backed off from using the lyrics, but it goes to show that what some people think of as Saint Gene was actually just a Hollywood producer who had a good idea and was more than happy to get what he could get out of it financially.
Nothing wrong with wanting to get paid either, but Cryptic is taking the dilithium surcharge thing just a bit far.
You're not thinking about this the way i am.
Roddenberry wanted to get paid yes. (who doesnt) But let me tell you something, he would have been deeply involved had he lived in a project like this and to see this game become what it has become so FAR gone from what he invisioned for this universe he'd be pretty damned disgusted i'd think.
I got no problem with a company wanting to make money. No problem at all. I do have a problem with price gouging, a storyline without direction, and changes that make no sense to a gaming populace that better than 75% will freely and gladly admit to someone on the street they're a trekkie. I dont consider the man a Saint i do however consider him a visionary who gave the world when it honestly needed it a view of the future that didnt necessarily include nuclear bombs. That Humanity could survive the cold war and come out the better for it on the other side.
Bran's been doing some if not damage control then he's been answering questions the devs need to answer. We have no word on this on why its happening or what it's going to mean. There are HUGE changes here that arent for the betterment of the game.
Diafpwe: 'The outcry of the playerbase has forced us to look at the economics of what we are suggesting. After going over what this would do in terms of the dilithium economy we realized what kind of idea this was and we will be scrapping these changes'
Or at least a reason as to WHY. These changes were unlisted, and probably hopefully going to be unnoticed. Well that aint the case. We saw them and we're not happy. We need answers.
Diafpwe: 'The outcry of the playerbase has forced us to look at the economics of what we are suggesting. After going over what this would do in terms of the dilithium economy we realized what kind of idea this was and we will be scrapping these changes'
Or at least a reason as to WHY. These changes were unlisted, and probably hopefully going to be unnoticed. Well that aint the case. We saw them and we're not happy. We need answers.
Is that an actual quote that you're citing, or a hypothetical one that you'd like to see posted?
I agree that the answers are DESPERATELY needed. I did some very crude math on how this would play out in terms of cash, and, well, let's just say I don't think anyone is going to be getting anything higher than a T2 base if this comes in and sticks.
Really hoping they reconsider these changes. Heck, most people already pay for DOffs through DOff packages on the S-Store, through Zen or converted Dilithium. That's why throwing 5 of a lower tier to get one of a higher tier was discounted anyhow - because people are swimming in commons through DOff packs. it's sort of a double-dip with these new prices - pay for DOFFs, pay again fro better DOffs.
Certainly, you can run Recruitment missions for common DOffs, but PWE is still making money off of free DOffs when we up-convert them anyhow. Now they're just going to be replacing them wholesale with packs purchased for Dilithium? Classy; that's like a triple-dip. Now there will be zero sources of free DOffs outside of the handful you can pick up during missions
I'm not one to use rhetoric lightly, but this move just kinda smacks of greed. S7 seems to be excessively fully of Dilithium sinks: in addiiton to S6 starbases, now we'll have to pay dilithium for Rep-based rewards, pay more for Doffs... S7 is looking less and less appealing as teh Dilithium grind keeps going up. What good are ECs for now?
Either reduce the upgrade price to Season 6 levels, or give us better DOffs in the DOff packs out of the door.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
Just as a general note, folks, I've seen a lot of people bringing up Gene Roddenberry, the "spirit" of Star Trek, and what he'd want done.
While this may be an interesting question, it is not one for this thread. This thread is to point out a glaring problem that is likely to be coming down the pike and allows the devs to see the level of discontent that it would cause, and why. Even if they don't reply to it, they may at least be aware of it.
As such, this is a thread that I do not think we can allow to be derailed. If you want to talk about this it would be better done in a separate thread. Right now though, this is a potentially massive problem that the devs need to be made aware of immediately, which means it can't afford to be diluted or diverted. Thank you for your consideration on this point.
Really hoping they reconsider these changes. Heck, most people already pay for DOffs through DOff packages on the S-Store, through Zen or converted Dilithium. That's why throwing 5 of a lower tier to get one of a higher tier was discounted anyhow - because people are swimming in commons through DOff packs. it's sort of a double-dip with these new prices - pay for DOFFs, pay again fro better DOffs.
Ironically this has made me start gathering up mission-based DOff packs in anticipation of this going south. Before I was pretty meh about it, but now, stockpile time.
I'm not one to use rhetoric lightly, but this move just kinda smacks of greed. S7 seems to be excessively fully of Dilithium sinks: in addiiton to S6 starbases, now we'll have to pay dilithium for Rep-based rewards, pay more for Doffs... S7 is looking less and less appealing as teh Dilithium grind keeps going up. What good are ECs for now?
Either reduce the upgrade price to Season 6 levels, or give us better DOffs in the DOff packs out of the door.
Unlike most people, I don't hold EC's as useless, because they can do something that dil can't - often enough you can get EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT with them. For instance, if I want to pick up a Hamlet Conn DOff, I can get it off the Exchange. It's up to chance and grinding otherwise.
This brings to light a new point - perhaps if PWE wants this kind of cash so badly, they might, instead of encouraging us to gamble, have us pay to get specific DOffs we want. Heck, we already do that with Lt. Ferra for rewards after the first one. I gladly paid up for my purple Security Officers so I could fill out my ground roster.
This brings to light a new point - perhaps if PWE wants this kind of cash so badly, they might, instead of encouraging us to gamble, have us pay to get specific DOffs we want.
I noticed the following dilithium costs on Tribble at the Personnel Officer:
General Recruitment (the basic DOff pack) - 1,000
Reassign Underperforming Officers (crunch 5 into 1 of the next higher quality)
Common - 500 (600 at race specific vendor)
Uncommon - 2500 (3000 at race specific vendor)
Rare - 5000 (6000 at race specific vendor)
Well that's just damn insane...
This will severely impair fleet starbase development if this goes live. What the hell is Cryptic thinking?
Really hoping they reconsider these changes. Heck, most people already pay for DOffs through DOff packages on the S-Store, through Zen or converted Dilithium. That's why throwing 5 of a lower tier to get one of a higher tier was discounted anyhow - because people are swimming in commons through DOff packs. it's sort of a double-dip with these new prices - pay for DOFFs, pay again fro better DOffs.
Honestly it's more than a double dip in the game at large, it's getting to the point in this game that any single item you end up with is double, triple or even quadruple taxed.
I'm not one to use rhetoric lightly, but this move just kinda smacks of greed. S7 seems to be excessively fully of Dilithium sinks: in addiiton to S6 starbases, now we'll have to pay dilithium for Rep-based rewards, pay more for Doffs... S7 is looking less and less appealing as teh Dilithium grind keeps going up.
It's really dilithium taxes run wild.
As another poster said, items should require a time cost or payment cost, not both compounded on each other with layers of time costs and payment costs.
Is that an actual quote that you're citing, or a hypothetical one that you'd like to see posted?
I agree that the answers are DESPERATELY needed. I did some very crude math on how this would play out in terms of cash, and, well, let's just say I don't think anyone is going to be getting anything higher than a T2 base if this comes in and sticks.
Hypothetical. If it was real i'd provide a link to it.
For the record. I dont bring Gene Roddenberry up lightly. That's how upset i am over this.
wow...sounds like the Cryptic is taking a note from the banking industry...
Introduce a neccesary commodity, DO recruitment needed for StarBases, then make that commodity more and more expensive, forcing most to work endlessly to stand a chance of survival or move to another place...like a game that doesn't endlessly sap your resources and your wallet and allows you just enjoy a game to escape the tribulations of reality.
And probably just like the banks have done, smile while they take your money and tell you that you like it that way.
Lord Krueg
KBF CO We are the Dead
join date Aug 2008
The general doff for 1k is way to high needs to be 1/4 of that.
The upgrade Doffs assignments are atm just about free so if they want to add a higher price thats probably well in line but the common white upgrade needs to not be as high maybe set them to 1/2 values if they want us to keep using them at the current rates. Though if the conversion goes out at the current prices I dont think it will slow down people much just make them slightly grouchy.
Comments
You don't get 1000's of people on the S.S. LTS by telling them their final destination is the Rura Penthe mines
#2311#2700#2316#2500
It can be explained that way, but that's not why they're doing it. Still, there's no excuse whatsoever for these insane price increases. Truly shameful.
I'm now hoping that ST actors will find out about this and get the money together to just BUY THESE PEOPLE OUT! This is a disgrace. Between this, the borg changes, and a number of other issues people have been talking about. I am VERY glad i will have the money to put into other games that i wont be spending on this. I was actually looking forward on tuesday to spending some money from my new job which starts next month on this game. GOD THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THIS ON THE FORUMS SO I SAVE MY MONEY!
I'll be honest, Rift and Guild Wars 2 are far better values for my cash at this point. So Congrats PWE. You've just lost a potential C-store buyer. Someone who is NEVER gonna touch gold options at this point aaand as a long time Trekkie hopes you burn in hell.
Cryptic employees: For the sake of trek lore, for the sake of your own sanity. Turn in your resignations today and start your own development house. Let this game die.
Thanks for making Star Trek into Star Wars Galaxies make too many changes and your players move on.
Doffs
Borg Set
"We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is futile."
Sincerely,
The Cube Assimilating Your Ship Right Now
I'm not sure about the recruitment pack, but the compactor change makes some sense. Before you could get 5 commons from your fleet doff vendor, compact them for a nominal fee, then if you didn't like the result uncompact that for a second round.
My character Tsin'xing
It's hard enough for small/solo fleets to get up to and beyond Tier 3 as it is, and now this?
I'm hoping SOMEONE at Cryptic comes to their senses in the next few weeks before Season 7 goes live and changes this. Have any devs or suits posted the reasoning behind this mess?
No Star Trek Series went past Season 7.
Will Star Trek Online survive Season 7?
You do realise the uncompators give less back than you used to compact in the first place. And even if that was the idea it's a stupid way of doing it becuase it ends up hurting everyone wanting high levels doffs. Contrary to claims in this thread i am not aware of any methods of reliably aquiring purple doffs that do not themselves require a high level doff input and that can be run en mass. All the other options are doff assignments that need high quality inputs to give slightly higher quality outputs.
Agreed, it's sad for me as a small fleet owner just starting out, and also as an individual because this was one of the few ways I could afford to upgrade my doffs even if it was a very long process.
625 whites = 1 Purple...
#2311#2700#2316#2500
I strongly disagree with the doff price changes but Roddenberry would not be spinning in his grave, figuratively, literally, or any other adverb.
Roddenberry didn't come up with Star Trek because he was some socialist Utopian hippie type that actually wanted the future to conform to his vision. He came up with Trek to get PAID.
Let me give you an example of how badly Gene wanted to get paid. Did you know that the opening theme music from TOS actually has lyrics that were written by Roddenberry? Know why he wrote lyrics? So he could claim half of the music composers royalty. He (luckily) backed off from using the lyrics, but it goes to show that what some people think of as Saint Gene was actually just a Hollywood producer who had a good idea and was more than happy to get what he could get out of it financially.
Nothing wrong with wanting to get paid either, but Cryptic is taking the dilithium surcharge thing just a bit far.
There comes a point when getting too greedy will stop you getting paid.
Just like lyrics to the theme song would have cheesed the TOS to death and probably not have got past it's network pilot
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Totally agree.
Just find it funny that people venerate Roddenberry as if he was some sort of religious Prophet, instead of recognizing that he was simply in it for the profit.
Seemed like a nice guy, who was very creative and came up with something I have enjoyed my entire life. He didn't, however, lay hands on the sick, walk on water, and certainly would not have turned down his share of lockbox proceeds, if he were entitled to any.
What could they say that won't be rotating cow puckie?
.::-:o-::.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
You're not thinking about this the way i am.
Roddenberry wanted to get paid yes. (who doesnt) But let me tell you something, he would have been deeply involved had he lived in a project like this and to see this game become what it has become so FAR gone from what he invisioned for this universe he'd be pretty damned disgusted i'd think.
I got no problem with a company wanting to make money. No problem at all. I do have a problem with price gouging, a storyline without direction, and changes that make no sense to a gaming populace that better than 75% will freely and gladly admit to someone on the street they're a trekkie. I dont consider the man a Saint i do however consider him a visionary who gave the world when it honestly needed it a view of the future that didnt necessarily include nuclear bombs. That Humanity could survive the cold war and come out the better for it on the other side.
Bran's been doing some if not damage control then he's been answering questions the devs need to answer. We have no word on this on why its happening or what it's going to mean. There are HUGE changes here that arent for the betterment of the game.
Diafpwe: 'The outcry of the playerbase has forced us to look at the economics of what we are suggesting. After going over what this would do in terms of the dilithium economy we realized what kind of idea this was and we will be scrapping these changes'
Or at least a reason as to WHY. These changes were unlisted, and probably hopefully going to be unnoticed. Well that aint the case. We saw them and we're not happy. We need answers.
Is that an actual quote that you're citing, or a hypothetical one that you'd like to see posted?
I agree that the answers are DESPERATELY needed. I did some very crude math on how this would play out in terms of cash, and, well, let's just say I don't think anyone is going to be getting anything higher than a T2 base if this comes in and sticks.
Certainly, you can run Recruitment missions for common DOffs, but PWE is still making money off of free DOffs when we up-convert them anyhow. Now they're just going to be replacing them wholesale with packs purchased for Dilithium? Classy; that's like a triple-dip. Now there will be zero sources of free DOffs outside of the handful you can pick up during missions
I'm not one to use rhetoric lightly, but this move just kinda smacks of greed. S7 seems to be excessively fully of Dilithium sinks: in addiiton to S6 starbases, now we'll have to pay dilithium for Rep-based rewards, pay more for Doffs... S7 is looking less and less appealing as teh Dilithium grind keeps going up. What good are ECs for now?
Either reduce the upgrade price to Season 6 levels, or give us better DOffs in the DOff packs out of the door.
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
While this may be an interesting question, it is not one for this thread. This thread is to point out a glaring problem that is likely to be coming down the pike and allows the devs to see the level of discontent that it would cause, and why. Even if they don't reply to it, they may at least be aware of it.
As such, this is a thread that I do not think we can allow to be derailed. If you want to talk about this it would be better done in a separate thread. Right now though, this is a potentially massive problem that the devs need to be made aware of immediately, which means it can't afford to be diluted or diverted. Thank you for your consideration on this point.
Unlike most people, I don't hold EC's as useless, because they can do something that dil can't - often enough you can get EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT with them. For instance, if I want to pick up a Hamlet Conn DOff, I can get it off the Exchange. It's up to chance and grinding otherwise.
This brings to light a new point - perhaps if PWE wants this kind of cash so badly, they might, instead of encouraging us to gamble, have us pay to get specific DOffs we want. Heck, we already do that with Lt. Ferra for rewards after the first one. I gladly paid up for my purple Security Officers so I could fill out my ground roster.
Seconded. I wholeheartedly agree with this.
Well that's just damn insane...
This will severely impair fleet starbase development if this goes live. What the hell is Cryptic thinking?
I would say nothing.
That's probably why they're doing it. Buying time by dragging out the starbase grind. :rolleyes:
Honestly it's more than a double dip in the game at large, it's getting to the point in this game that any single item you end up with is double, triple or even quadruple taxed.
It's really dilithium taxes run wild.
As another poster said, items should require a time cost or payment cost, not both compounded on each other with layers of time costs and payment costs.
Hypothetical. If it was real i'd provide a link to it.
For the record. I dont bring Gene Roddenberry up lightly. That's how upset i am over this.
Introduce a neccesary commodity, DO recruitment needed for StarBases, then make that commodity more and more expensive, forcing most to work endlessly to stand a chance of survival or move to another place...like a game that doesn't endlessly sap your resources and your wallet and allows you just enjoy a game to escape the tribulations of reality.
And probably just like the banks have done, smile while they take your money and tell you that you like it that way.
KBF CO
We are the Dead
join date Aug 2008
The upgrade Doffs assignments are atm just about free so if they want to add a higher price thats probably well in line but the common white upgrade needs to not be as high maybe set them to 1/2 values if they want us to keep using them at the current rates. Though if the conversion goes out at the current prices I dont think it will slow down people much just make them slightly grouchy.