Can't see much new blood sticking around for STO's endgame once they realize just how absurd the gateways are going to be after the change.
There wasn't that much dil in the system before S6 and there sure as hell isn't any now, why does Cryptic think Zen prices have bottomed out? I was actually thinking about getting either the Regent or the Nebbie, and when I worked out just how much straight grinding it'd take on all six of my alts, at 8,000 a pop per day (not as easy as it sounds either), it came to almost half a month of doing what'd basically be a part-time job.
Hope Cryptic knows what they're doing because they stand to lose a lot of the playerbase over this.
I should also add that we haven't had any real space content with new map elements or models since I started playing STO a few months ago, and grinding the same three missions over and over until I have finger calluses has long since lost its appeal.
devs: **** YOU PLAYER BASE, YOU NEED TO BE CONVERTING REAL MONEY INTO DILITHIUM TO EVEN GET HALF OF THE CURRENT GAME EXPERIENCE
oh, the new omega reputation is just a small additional grind
oh, the new romulan reputation is just a small additional grind
oh, the new embassy is just a small additional grind
oh, we just gated your ability to gather doffs, so now grinding all this is INFINITELY more expensive
oh, wait till you get to tier 4 base stuff, its 10 times more expensive
so you see players, everything is just a very small increase in what you have to grind. except thats the biggest lie we have ever told, and this is actually an exponential, incalculable amount of new grind.
i'll do my best to ignore all this TRIBBLE and just pvp, the only thing they haven't ruined yet, mostly because they haven't done a single thing to it since day 1
I'm telling ya guys.. Cryptic is a black ops government program designed to see how they can control the public through taxes while telling them that 'it's a small increase nothing to worry about..' Although my comments are sarcastic in nature i do feel that they are paralleling the governments actions which is-- More taxes for working harder.
I'm telling ya guys.. Cryptic is a black ops government program designed to see how they can control the public through taxes while telling them that 'it's a small increase nothing to worry about..' Although my comments are sarcastic in nature i do feel that they are paralleling the governments actions which is-- More taxes for working harder.
It's pretty obvious, their metrics probably show that the game has reached saturation point and new players are not as abundant and in decline. Faced with this they decided to put a sale on LTS and sweeten it up with 1000 day rewards... then basically do the most cost efficient thing to increase revenue. Revamp a pre-existing piece of content and attach dilitium sinks to everything. The idea being to leech what they can before the new Trek Movie comes along to push new player sales. In the long run though it will just force the game into decline as it's simply going way out of balance, people don't have time for this grind.
Thats what my paranoid delusional mind tells me anyways.
My sentiment exactly. I, like many other forum posters, have spent quite a bit of real money and enjoyed this game without a gripe about it. But now?!? Adding insane dilithium price-tags is not the adding of "content" I expected with Season 7. If they go through with this, I vow to never spend another dime on this game.
Season 7: "Shaka, when the walls fell."
"All I see is digger filth."
First they nerf our Dilithium Income such as the nerfs to the Contraband Mission and the Dilithium you get for turning in DOFFs. Then they add those enormous costs for Fleet Starbases. Then with Season 7, they get rid of the free STF Turn-ins and now force you to pay for that stuff with Dilithium, AND NOW THIS? :mad:
If Cryptic goes through with this, I will immediately stop working on Starbases and I will stop bothering with DOFFs. In fact, for the first time, I am actually thinking of quitting STO. Because I am tired of Perfect World's greed.
There are Four Lights... say no to ARCFleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
As the leader of a small fleet I'm very concerned by this news. it takes us a lot of time already to get the dilithium and doffs necessary for fleet projects. We mix our doffs with recruitment and fleet doffs. If recruitment missions starting cost a lot of dilithium we'll have even less to put to the starbase (T3 upgrade at 648,000 is already going to take us weeks to gather).
^^ This
I've had the upgrade to Tier 3 base project active for over a week and my small fleet hasn't even been able to get HALF of the 648k dilithium donated. We do continue to complete 3x Tier 2 Military projects since we're close 50k exp on that grind, but again, that opens up the upgrade Tier 3 Shipyard project which is ANOTHER 324k dilithium to complete. So between finishing both of those upgrades, that's close to 1 million dilithium that a small fleet must gather. Sigh.
Thing is - Hyperbole dosen't help and the "OMG! It's the NGU/NCE from SWG all over again." routine gets trotted out way too often and starts to loose impact when used for rally against something you don't like in another MMO.
As bad as some of the changes may look, it's nowhere NEAR as bad as what SOE/LA tried to do to SWG in 2005 in hopes to compete directly with WoW at the time (which was the only reason the changes to SWG - coupled with a massive media campaign, including TV ads.)
They're adding (and still itterating a new endgame reputation system - and as a result changing how endgame gear is earned, and adding some new passive powers you can earn in the new process as well.)
STO is NOT ripping out and redoing their Class system, Ground and Space combat system, and mission system in one swoop (Which is what was done to SWG in one major patch to try and make in 'WoW-like'.)
The situation is HARDLY similar in the last.
You missed my point -- I'm not saying that the amount of changes or the scope of the changes approach those in the CU/NGE -- I'm saying that the clueless stupidity BEHIND the changes is similar and the aftermath could be similar (people quit playing a game that they once loved because of the changes made by devs who obviously don't care about said players opinions).
Yeah, your perspective is of someone who makes purples because they want to sell them for EC. what makes you think the Devs like that?
If that was really the problem, all they have to do is make the DOFF you get from grinding Bound. You could still still use it for Starbases and DOFFing. But I don't think anyone believes that's the real issue.
Have the developers announced if the new DOFF pricing system or whatever you want to call it is going to be on live?
If so then forget it, I rake in an average 40-45K per day in refined dilithium (lots of alts) and will not even consider exchanging DOFFS at these prices. On a side note, I do not play the DOFF market even though I easily could; I only convert them for 2 toons, my Klingon & Fed main(s).
This move if anything looks like it has the potential to pretty much shut down starbase advancement for large & small guilds as well as causing substantial price inflation for other items sold in game.
I might be missing something, but it looks like the developers might want to rethink this one since new & casual players are going to be priced out the market on pretty much everything.
If they move forward with these bat&#!% crazy dilithium costs for basic doffs, nobody will ever run them again. Period. Nobody will run any fleet projects requiring doffs. Fleets will stop. Period. Doff missions will stop. Period. Folks will work with what they have.
It's the biggest cockup I've seen from Cryptic in a long time. And that's saying something!!!!!
Without even reading every thread it's clear Cryptic have pissed off the community as intended.
I'm sure someone in a recent post has already summed up what will happen, people will stop doing the assignments. This will force fleets to adopt the non doff/low doff projects, forcing fleet progression grind to double in overall time especially for the smaller fleets which then forces more grind of fleet marks and so on....
If Cryptic can't grasp the concept that grinding the hell out of players is going to kill the game then the only alternative will be STO going in to decline and everyone loses.
Has anyone done the maths on dilithium spend vs income? 8k a day max on a character and 1k would be lost to the general recruit, then pay for fleet/omega/romulan progression systems...as the tier's increase 8k will not stretch that far even if you say the doff recruit is only every few days. People will just not bother grinding. As hard as Cryptic tries to force us to pay/grind customers will do what they can to avoid it. Resistance is far from futile and players will adapt.
Without even reading every thread it's clear Cryptic have pissed off the community as intended.
I'm sure someone in a recent post has already summed up what will happen, people will stop doing the assignments. This will force fleets to adopt the non doff/low doff projects, forcing fleet progression grind to double in overall time especially for the smaller fleets which then forces more grind of fleet marks and so on....
If Cryptic can't grasp the concept that grinding the hell out of players is going to kill the game then the only alternative will be STO going in to decline and everyone loses.
Has anyone done the maths on dilithium spend vs income? 8k a day max on a character and 1k would be lost to the general recruit, then pay for fleet/omega/romulan progression systems...as the tier's increase 8k will not stretch that far even if you say the doff recruit is only every few days. People will just not bother grinding. As hard as Cryptic tries to force us to pay/grind customers will do what they can to avoid it. Resistance is far from futile and players will adapt.
The worst part is it's so glaringly obvious, hence why they hid it from the initial list of "features" for season 7.
I think a lot of the reason for the change is the devs number crunching with very little understanding of how the game works.
1. They introduce a horribly bugged up Doff distributor on the starbase, they never really fix it.
2. The repetitive SB missions use the same select Doffs over and over. Tier 3 makes things worse with one set being uncommon and the other being common.
3. The extreme 1:10 or 1:15 ratio of departmental Doffs force players to grind up or down excessive Doffs. This inflates the real amount of Doff grinding happening, making the devs think this is some super desirable feature when IT IS NOT.
Now they could fix how the Doff distributor pushes out new Doffs and solve the problem, eliminate Doff grinding, and ridiculous excessive Doffs and make the system work. They won't, they will just increase the cost (which players already pay in huge time sinks to grind) of dilithium to "fix" this obvious exploit.
If a company's attitude is to penalize the players for the company's own mistakes (and complete lack of follow up) it has some massive problems.
Personally before the SBs arrived I tried the Doff grinder, 5 blues for 1 purple along with 500 dilithium seemed like a decent gamble. Then I tried it.. and I lost and lost and lost, there are so many purple 2 traited botanists and biologists out there it is crazy. The Doff grinder at 500 dil is a losing proposition, at 5000 its a joke. You are far more likely to get good Doffs from the refugee missions, as random as that is. I had stopped using it completely, along with the general recruitment until the SBs came around. Why waste 20 hours on 5 Doffs I can't use? But the general recruitment is so much more likely to get you those now ultra rare security or engineering Doffs it is a must.
So the reason these features are so heavily used isn't because they are valuable features, the reason is to fix for the terrible implementation of other features which remain horribly broken. Make the SB doff giver count all the warfare specialists as ONE profession, there is no reason the tholian, borg, and undine are all completely separate, all those flight deck officers are just as bad for the engineer/ops problem. Medical is only an issue because of the shear volume of Doffs needed for the SB. Why not have it first choose between 1 of 6 (or 1 of 2 for area specific boxes), then choose the Doff? It would help for the most popular missions. That leaves major problems for operational assets... but that needs some major fixing anyway.
Well, I'm waiting for a Dev to answer this this disgusting money grabbing absurdity :mad:
I'm the guy that uses unconventional builds, and don't fall to the normal. I also don't believe in "No-BS" TRIBBLE, it's in the game, it's ready to be used. Think Clint Eastwood in Heartbreak Ridge.
Why is this thread STILL going? Have none of you actually bothered to do a little independent calculation? Is basic mathematics really too hard for you? Or has the fog of RAGE just completely blinded you to Common Eff'ing Sense?
The odds of getting the doff you want from the grinders are the same as getting a good doff out of a C-Store Pack. But here's the big difference - you pay a pittance in Dilithium (even after these price hikes) vs. what you'd pay on the C-Store.
C-store Pack = 200 Zen * 150 Dil = 30,000 Dil
For 7 officers. 4 White+, 2 Green+, 1 Blue+
Compared to the new doff prices:
Whites = 250 (4 in a cadre costs 1000)
Green = 500+(250*5) = 1750
Blue = 2500+(1750*5) = 11250
Add that together, you get 11250+(1750*2)+(250*4) = 14,750 Dil
14,750 Dil for the same amount of Doffs that a C-store Pack charges 30,000 for.
So, that's a >50% Discount if you buy your Dilithium using Zen. If you earn it via gameplay, it has cost you exactly NOTHING, other than your time.
Time that you were spending playing the game anyway, right? If not, why the eff are you complaining?
Fleet Starbases (Tier and Store Items), Reputation System (Tiering and Store Items), and now we these changes as well.
That's a lot of Dil whether you grind it via gameplay or not.
It would be nice to know the Official Reason for this.
I'm the guy that uses unconventional builds, and don't fall to the normal. I also don't believe in "No-BS" TRIBBLE, it's in the game, it's ready to be used. Think Clint Eastwood in Heartbreak Ridge.
Everyones problem to this is its a fix to a problem thats been put in a different system than the problem.
The starbases demand a high amount of a handful of doff types, all others are basicly red shirt transporter experiment fodder. So instead of balancing the the draw thats causing people to play Chinese factory forman with white doffs they are making the doffs simply cost more so less people will do it.
Anyway here is the fix to the grinder. Increase the diversity of the starbase draw or reduce amount. And for the "Doff grinder" put a cooldown timer on the upgrade missions and leave the rest alone. The wild and crazy transporter experiments get turned into a nice passable 4 greens a week 2 blues and 1 purple (at least thats what I would put the cooldowns at).
you have your high amount of whites to fill teh new captains rosters + starbases and with the increased diversity of officer types being drawn from the projects 4 greens a week should be sufficient when distributed over medium fleets.
I sure won't be utilizing the doff grinder any more with added dil costs.
Add another straw to the proverbial camel's back...
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." Q Join the 44th Fleet. [FED and KDF] Apply Online: startrek.44thfleet.com
The grinder, the grinder, the grinder - why are you so obsessed with the grinder? It is certainly not for doffs for your doffing purposes - because you don't need the grinder for that
I have over 1500 Purples and 1500 blues - less than 1% - one percent - came from the grinder.
So what is this obsession with the grinder?
I told you Cryptic has given you another option to starbase assignment progression that they may want more people to use - the 500xp dilth assignments
By making the costs higher on the grinder - it does ZERO to hurt true doffers - as my example of my roster above states - only hurts starbase projects that are the 1000xp and cost no dilth.
Why don't you stick to and focas on the real issue - do you think Mr Stahl is Stupid?? Don't you think he knows what he is doing and what issue that you are trying to side-step?
I said in the other thread that I would support Boglejam in that the 50x increase for common to green is excessive.
A 10x increase to 100 is more appropriate - 100 dith to upgrade to green is still tiny - for someone making 8000 dilth per day that would allow them to grind 400 common doffs!! Per day!!
Anyone suggesting that is not fair is just wanting to profit from the grinder.
The proposed changes to grind blues and purples are perfectly reasonable.
Anyone profiting from flooding the market with cheap blues and purples - this message is for you:
I said in the other thread that I would support Boglejam in that the 50x increase for common to green is excessive.
A 10x increase to 100 is more appropriate - 100 dith to upgrade to green is still tiny - for someone making 8000 dilth per day that would allow them to grind 400 common doffs!! Per day!!
Anyone suggesting that is not fair is just wanting to profit from the grinder.
The proposed changes to grind blues and purples are perfectly reasonable.
Anyone profiting from flooding the market with cheap blues and purples - this message is for you:
Sorry but that's simply not how most of us use the grinder. I've only ever used it for my own crew, I've not sold 1 doff. I am sure neither have most of us. Just because you are avaricious does not mean others are, self projection.
Like I said you want to solve the problem with the Starbase Doff Vendor, then solve it.
The point is for me I use the grinder to make purple doffs for my crew, after this disgraceful update I won't be able to use it. It will become pointless and that will be the case for many other casual players.
It has nothing to do with grinder. Fix the fleet vendor.
Also your youtube posts belay the fact that you've gone from contrariness to trolling.
Sorry but that's simply not how most of us use the grinder. I've only ever used it for my own crew, I've not sold 1 doff. I am sure neither have most of us. Just because you are avaricious does not mean others are, self projection.
Like I said you want to solve the problem with the Starbase Doff Vendor, then solve it.
The point is for me I use the grinder to make purple doffs for my crew, after this disgraceful update I won't be able to use it. It will become pointless and that will be the case for many other casual players.
It has nothing to do with grinder. Fix the fleet vendor.
Also your youtube posts belay the fact that you've gone from contrariness to trolling.
I am sorry but i just don't believe you. If you spend half the time in game using the multiple multiple ways that are availble - other than the grinder - to get purples, you would be well on you way to having more than you could handle.
If you are in fact - or anyone - wants purples - they can use the doff system to do it and not the grinder - as I stated I have aquired almost 1500 purples through the doff system - the grinder is being used by people to PROFITEER - by supplying the market with toons cheap to produce blues and purples - (something i do not do) and that is where my video was directed.
I am very suspect of your motives here and on the other threads. you should be out doffing.
Don't even try to go down the casual player route - Mr Stahl has made it clear - if you don't have the time he provides you another option to advance - the C-store. End of debate.
Why is this thread STILL going? Have none of you actually bothered to do a little independent calculation? Is basic mathematics really too hard for you? Or has the fog of RAGE just completely blinded you to Common Eff'ing Sense?
The odds of getting the doff you want from the grinders are the same as getting a good doff out of a C-Store Pack. But here's the big difference - you pay a pittance in Dilithium (even after these price hikes) vs. what you'd pay on the C-Store.
C-store Pack = 200 Zen * 150 Dil = 30,000 Dil
For 7 officers. 4 White+, 2 Green+, 1 Blue+
Compared to the new doff prices:
Whites = 250 (4 in a cadre costs 1000)
Green = 500+(250*5) = 1750
Blue = 2500+(1750*5) = 11250
Add that together, you get 11250+(1750*2)+(250*4) = 14,750 Dil
14,750 Dil for the same amount of Doffs that a C-store Pack charges 30,000 for.
So, that's a >50% Discount if you buy your Dilithium using Zen. If you earn it via gameplay, it has cost you exactly NOTHING, other than your time.
Time that you were spending playing the game anyway, right? If not, why the eff are you complaining?
what are you a stealth dev? do you not care that a free and already time gated souse of lowest level doffs is being taken away? that a very HIGH % of starbase consumed doffs come from?
how would you like it if for every item drop you were charged 500 dil before you could pick it up? and add an extra 500 for every additional level of quality. im sure you would be fine with that, you appear to love when they take away what you already have.
the devs are throwing a stick into the wheel of a bike by taking away one of the best ways to slowly amass EC and to keep starbase projects fed. no amount of BS math is going to change that fact.
I am sorry but i just don't believe you. If you spend half the time in game using the multiple multiple ways that are availble - other than the grinder - to get purples, you would be well on you way to having more than you could handle.
If you are in fact - or anyone - wants purples - they can use the doff system to do it and not the grinder - as I stated I have aquired almost 1500 purples through the doff system - the grinder is being used by people to PROFITEER - by supplying the market with toons cheap to produce blues and purples - (something i do not do) and that is where my video was directed.
I am very suspect of your motives here and on the other threads. you should be out doffing.
Don't even try to go down the casual player route - Mr Stahl has made it clear - if you don't have the time he provides you another option to advance - the C-store. End of debate.
If you know all these fine ways to get purple doffs that easily and only spend say 45 minutes to 1 1/2 hours on it every few days, I'd like to know, so list them here for us if anything if this change goes ahead at least I'd have new avenues to explore.
If you're being truthful you should be able to tell me how I can have "more doffs than I can handle" by telling most of us your methods for acquiring them in such a short space of time.
The C-Store? so 500 Zen a month stipend would get me all of 1 doff packs... then I would have to exchange dilithium for Zen, but would also still have to have Dilithium for everything else and the grinder on top.
You're really starting to sound more and more angry and frustrated with every post that most of us normal people can't understand your fears because frankly no one in their right mind would profiteer from the doff system by crashing the prices. However I could see how one might well profiteer from having 1500+ purples and a ludicrously high cost for them on the exchange once people are priced out of using the doff grinder .
Maybe it's me but the tone of your posts have become incredibly trolly and frustrated.
If you know all these fine ways to get purple doffs that easily and only spend say 45 minutes to 1 1/2 hours on it every few days, I'd like to know, so list them here for us if anything if this change goes ahead at least I'd have new avenues to explore.
If you're being truthful you should be able to tell me how I can have "more doffs than I can handle" by telling most of us your methods for acquiring them in such a short space of time.
The C-Store? so 500 Zen a month stipend would get me all of 1 doff packs... then I would have to exchange dilithium for Zen, but would also still have to have Dilithium for everything else and the grinder on top.
You're really starting to sound more and more angry and frustrated with every post that most of us normal people can't understand your fears because frankly no one in their right mind would profiteer from the doff system by crashing the prices. However I could see how one might well profiteer from having 1500+ purples and a ludicrously high cost for them on the exchange once people are priced out of using the doff grinder .
Maybe it's me but the tone of your posts have become incredibly trolly and frustrated.
Before I spend my time explaining the doff system - this 45min to 1 1/2 hours every few days - is this what YOU spend? Because the way you are wording your posts - you are making appear as if I said that is what "I" spend on doffing.
Before I spend my time explaining the doff system - this 45min to 1 1/2 hours every few days - is this what YOU spend? Because the way you are wording your posts - you are making appear as if I said that is what "I" spend on doffing.
I don't know what time you spend on doffing but if you have an alternative for someone like me that is as efficient as the grinder is with say 45minutes to 1 1/2 hours every day or every other day. I would love to hear about it, I may need it if this dilithium sink goes ahead:(
I mean with the grinder I could buy a whole load of packs and grind the doffs up into 10 purps in like 45 minutes.
Comments
There wasn't that much dil in the system before S6 and there sure as hell isn't any now, why does Cryptic think Zen prices have bottomed out? I was actually thinking about getting either the Regent or the Nebbie, and when I worked out just how much straight grinding it'd take on all six of my alts, at 8,000 a pop per day (not as easy as it sounds either), it came to almost half a month of doing what'd basically be a part-time job.
Hope Cryptic knows what they're doing because they stand to lose a lot of the playerbase over this.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
I'm telling ya guys.. Cryptic is a black ops government program designed to see how they can control the public through taxes while telling them that 'it's a small increase nothing to worry about..' Although my comments are sarcastic in nature i do feel that they are paralleling the governments actions which is-- More taxes for working harder.
It's pretty obvious, their metrics probably show that the game has reached saturation point and new players are not as abundant and in decline. Faced with this they decided to put a sale on LTS and sweeten it up with 1000 day rewards... then basically do the most cost efficient thing to increase revenue. Revamp a pre-existing piece of content and attach dilitium sinks to everything. The idea being to leech what they can before the new Trek Movie comes along to push new player sales. In the long run though it will just force the game into decline as it's simply going way out of balance, people don't have time for this grind.
Thats what my paranoid delusional mind tells me anyways.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Season 7: "Shaka, when the walls fell."
"All I see is digger filth."
Fleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
LMAO
That should be the official name of the season.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
^^ This
I've had the upgrade to Tier 3 base project active for over a week and my small fleet hasn't even been able to get HALF of the 648k dilithium donated. We do continue to complete 3x Tier 2 Military projects since we're close 50k exp on that grind, but again, that opens up the upgrade Tier 3 Shipyard project which is ANOTHER 324k dilithium to complete. So between finishing both of those upgrades, that's close to 1 million dilithium that a small fleet must gather. Sigh.
No Star Trek Series went past Season 7.
Will Star Trek Online survive Season 7?
You missed my point -- I'm not saying that the amount of changes or the scope of the changes approach those in the CU/NGE -- I'm saying that the clueless stupidity BEHIND the changes is similar and the aftermath could be similar (people quit playing a game that they once loved because of the changes made by devs who obviously don't care about said players opinions).
No Star Trek Series went past Season 7.
Will Star Trek Online survive Season 7?
If that was really the problem, all they have to do is make the DOFF you get from grinding Bound. You could still still use it for Starbases and DOFFing. But I don't think anyone believes that's the real issue.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
If so then forget it, I rake in an average 40-45K per day in refined dilithium (lots of alts) and will not even consider exchanging DOFFS at these prices. On a side note, I do not play the DOFF market even though I easily could; I only convert them for 2 toons, my Klingon & Fed main(s).
This move if anything looks like it has the potential to pretty much shut down starbase advancement for large & small guilds as well as causing substantial price inflation for other items sold in game.
I might be missing something, but it looks like the developers might want to rethink this one since new & casual players are going to be priced out the market on pretty much everything.
It's the biggest cockup I've seen from Cryptic in a long time. And that's saying something!!!!!
I'm sure someone in a recent post has already summed up what will happen, people will stop doing the assignments. This will force fleets to adopt the non doff/low doff projects, forcing fleet progression grind to double in overall time especially for the smaller fleets which then forces more grind of fleet marks and so on....
If Cryptic can't grasp the concept that grinding the hell out of players is going to kill the game then the only alternative will be STO going in to decline and everyone loses.
Has anyone done the maths on dilithium spend vs income? 8k a day max on a character and 1k would be lost to the general recruit, then pay for fleet/omega/romulan progression systems...as the tier's increase 8k will not stretch that far even if you say the doff recruit is only every few days. People will just not bother grinding. As hard as Cryptic tries to force us to pay/grind customers will do what they can to avoid it. Resistance is far from futile and players will adapt.
The worst part is it's so glaringly obvious, hence why they hid it from the initial list of "features" for season 7.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
1. They introduce a horribly bugged up Doff distributor on the starbase, they never really fix it.
2. The repetitive SB missions use the same select Doffs over and over. Tier 3 makes things worse with one set being uncommon and the other being common.
3. The extreme 1:10 or 1:15 ratio of departmental Doffs force players to grind up or down excessive Doffs. This inflates the real amount of Doff grinding happening, making the devs think this is some super desirable feature when IT IS NOT.
Now they could fix how the Doff distributor pushes out new Doffs and solve the problem, eliminate Doff grinding, and ridiculous excessive Doffs and make the system work. They won't, they will just increase the cost (which players already pay in huge time sinks to grind) of dilithium to "fix" this obvious exploit.
If a company's attitude is to penalize the players for the company's own mistakes (and complete lack of follow up) it has some massive problems.
Personally before the SBs arrived I tried the Doff grinder, 5 blues for 1 purple along with 500 dilithium seemed like a decent gamble. Then I tried it.. and I lost and lost and lost, there are so many purple 2 traited botanists and biologists out there it is crazy. The Doff grinder at 500 dil is a losing proposition, at 5000 its a joke. You are far more likely to get good Doffs from the refugee missions, as random as that is. I had stopped using it completely, along with the general recruitment until the SBs came around. Why waste 20 hours on 5 Doffs I can't use? But the general recruitment is so much more likely to get you those now ultra rare security or engineering Doffs it is a must.
So the reason these features are so heavily used isn't because they are valuable features, the reason is to fix for the terrible implementation of other features which remain horribly broken. Make the SB doff giver count all the warfare specialists as ONE profession, there is no reason the tholian, borg, and undine are all completely separate, all those flight deck officers are just as bad for the engineer/ops problem. Medical is only an issue because of the shear volume of Doffs needed for the SB. Why not have it first choose between 1 of 6 (or 1 of 2 for area specific boxes), then choose the Doff? It would help for the most popular missions. That leaves major problems for operational assets... but that needs some major fixing anyway.
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The odds of getting the doff you want from the grinders are the same as getting a good doff out of a C-Store Pack. But here's the big difference - you pay a pittance in Dilithium (even after these price hikes) vs. what you'd pay on the C-Store.
C-store Pack = 200 Zen * 150 Dil = 30,000 Dil
For 7 officers. 4 White+, 2 Green+, 1 Blue+
Compared to the new doff prices:
Whites = 250 (4 in a cadre costs 1000)
Green = 500+(250*5) = 1750
Blue = 2500+(1750*5) = 11250
Add that together, you get 11250+(1750*2)+(250*4) = 14,750 Dil
14,750 Dil for the same amount of Doffs that a C-store Pack charges 30,000 for.
So, that's a >50% Discount if you buy your Dilithium using Zen. If you earn it via gameplay, it has cost you exactly NOTHING, other than your time.
Time that you were spending playing the game anyway, right? If not, why the eff are you complaining?
That's a lot of Dil whether you grind it via gameplay or not.
It would be nice to know the Official Reason for this.
The starbases demand a high amount of a handful of doff types, all others are basicly red shirt transporter experiment fodder. So instead of balancing the the draw thats causing people to play Chinese factory forman with white doffs they are making the doffs simply cost more so less people will do it.
Anyway here is the fix to the grinder. Increase the diversity of the starbase draw or reduce amount. And for the "Doff grinder" put a cooldown timer on the upgrade missions and leave the rest alone. The wild and crazy transporter experiments get turned into a nice passable 4 greens a week 2 blues and 1 purple (at least thats what I would put the cooldowns at).
you have your high amount of whites to fill teh new captains rosters + starbases and with the increased diversity of officer types being drawn from the projects 4 greens a week should be sufficient when distributed over medium fleets.
Add another straw to the proverbial camel's back...
Join the 44th Fleet. [FED and KDF] Apply Online: startrek.44thfleet.com
This is what you need to accept.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfzXpE0QB2U
Is that supposed to make me feel better? :rolleyes:
You should work PR for Cryptic.
A 10x increase to 100 is more appropriate - 100 dith to upgrade to green is still tiny - for someone making 8000 dilth per day that would allow them to grind 400 common doffs!! Per day!!
Anyone suggesting that is not fair is just wanting to profit from the grinder.
The proposed changes to grind blues and purples are perfectly reasonable.
Anyone profiting from flooding the market with cheap blues and purples - this message is for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UDnTJcjPhY&feature=related
Sorry but that's simply not how most of us use the grinder. I've only ever used it for my own crew, I've not sold 1 doff. I am sure neither have most of us. Just because you are avaricious does not mean others are, self projection.
Like I said you want to solve the problem with the Starbase Doff Vendor, then solve it.
The point is for me I use the grinder to make purple doffs for my crew, after this disgraceful update I won't be able to use it. It will become pointless and that will be the case for many other casual players.
It has nothing to do with grinder. Fix the fleet vendor.
Also your youtube posts belay the fact that you've gone from contrariness to trolling.
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I am sorry but i just don't believe you. If you spend half the time in game using the multiple multiple ways that are availble - other than the grinder - to get purples, you would be well on you way to having more than you could handle.
If you are in fact - or anyone - wants purples - they can use the doff system to do it and not the grinder - as I stated I have aquired almost 1500 purples through the doff system - the grinder is being used by people to PROFITEER - by supplying the market with toons cheap to produce blues and purples - (something i do not do) and that is where my video was directed.
I am very suspect of your motives here and on the other threads. you should be out doffing.
Don't even try to go down the casual player route - Mr Stahl has made it clear - if you don't have the time he provides you another option to advance - the C-store. End of debate.
what are you a stealth dev? do you not care that a free and already time gated souse of lowest level doffs is being taken away? that a very HIGH % of starbase consumed doffs come from?
how would you like it if for every item drop you were charged 500 dil before you could pick it up? and add an extra 500 for every additional level of quality. im sure you would be fine with that, you appear to love when they take away what you already have.
the devs are throwing a stick into the wheel of a bike by taking away one of the best ways to slowly amass EC and to keep starbase projects fed. no amount of BS math is going to change that fact.
If you know all these fine ways to get purple doffs that easily and only spend say 45 minutes to 1 1/2 hours on it every few days, I'd like to know, so list them here for us if anything if this change goes ahead at least I'd have new avenues to explore.
If you're being truthful you should be able to tell me how I can have "more doffs than I can handle" by telling most of us your methods for acquiring them in such a short space of time.
The C-Store? so 500 Zen a month stipend would get me all of 1 doff packs... then I would have to exchange dilithium for Zen, but would also still have to have Dilithium for everything else and the grinder on top.
You're really starting to sound more and more angry and frustrated with every post that most of us normal people can't understand your fears because frankly no one in their right mind would profiteer from the doff system by crashing the prices. However I could see how one might well profiteer from having 1500+ purples and a ludicrously high cost for them on the exchange once people are priced out of using the doff grinder
Maybe it's me but the tone of your posts have become incredibly trolly and frustrated.
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Before I spend my time explaining the doff system - this 45min to 1 1/2 hours every few days - is this what YOU spend? Because the way you are wording your posts - you are making appear as if I said that is what "I" spend on doffing.
I don't know what time you spend on doffing but if you have an alternative for someone like me that is as efficient as the grinder is with say 45minutes to 1 1/2 hours every day or every other day. I would love to hear about it, I may need it if this dilithium sink goes ahead:(
I mean with the grinder I could buy a whole load of packs and grind the doffs up into 10 purps in like 45 minutes.
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