I will add that if Levi is getting his off the exchange, well...
Those prices won't last long with the changes.
The grinder is what's fueling the exchange price of DOffs.
Interesting you say that I have been at the grinder for the past 2 hrs now(I have the game running and flip back and forth between forum and game) turning commons into greens to fill the exchange - of course that will stop come Season 7
But by them I will have about $800 million EC so i am not too worried
stoleviathan99 - on a good day i provide the exchange with up to 500+ of the in-demand commons/greens
My guess is that this is the real reason of the change: doffs of high quality were never meant to be as "cheap" as they are now.
No,
Put simply that is not the reason. There is a clear ideology running through this entire season update and that is to introduce dilithium sinks into every facet of the game.
He also mentioned the weapons will cost 'similar to dil store items'.
36 per set piece x 3 pieces = 108,000 dilithium
*approx 22k dil per weapon x 6 to 8 weapons = 132,000 to 176,000 dilithium
T5 rep unlock approx 200k dil = 200,000 dilithium
To gear a cruiser with MACO 3 piece, 8 weapons and rep =
484,000 dilithium
Current exchange price = 160 dil per 1 zen
Value of 1 character's worth of full STF gear = 3,025 zen ($30) OR 60 days of dilithium grinding at 8,000 dilithium per day*.
Since we are losing EDC, Salvage and Tech turn ins for Dilithium as well as I think losing Dilithium for Normal STFs (unconfirmed) while also gaining 2 more dil sinks in the DOFF system, 2 full reputation dil sinks and also the new Embassy sink - it is quite possible that the dil will become stronger vs. the zen.
*Having multiple characters does not necessarily help with this as they would need to be geared as well. Unless you have like 4-8 dilithium farm mules who only exist to feed your single main character.
Good luck getting those fleet & embassy dilithium donations.
ZING!!!!...... Ouch, did you feel that, yep that hurts :eek:
But don't worry I will be stocking up on 1000's of greens to sell you when season 7 hits
yes we get it you have a huge e-peen and aren't afraid to use it! we shall duly bow down to you master of the green doffs when Season 7: Dilithium Apocalypse hits
yes we get it you have a huge e-peen and aren't afraid to use it! we shall duly bow down to you master of the green doffs when Season 7: Dilithium Apocalypse hits
No need to bow - but I will take lots of EC though! - or contraband as I go through about $5 million worth of it per day.
I'll be ok, all my 3 mains have incomplete space and ground Mk12 sets that just need that "last" piece lol
And all of them have Mk12 borg weapons on several ships in the dock....
Still a sting though, kinda glad I decided to only use one main now and relegate the rest to dilithium grind only.
Everything in this game is now centered around only having one toon. You would be mad to do the new rep system on more than one toon
Put simply that is not the reason. There is a clear ideology running through this entire season update and that is to introduce dilithium sinks into every facet of the game.
Will they be introducing a Dilithium cost to the Officer Exchange DOFF missions? The grinder might be fast and convenient, but it seems awfully wasteful to me.
My blog! Zen|Dilithium tracking on Thursdays http://samonmaui.blogspot.com As a lifetime member of STO, I officially became a financial liability as of April 2012 when compared to a subscriber.
Will they be introducing a Dilithium cost to the Officer Exchange DOFF missions? The grinder might be fast and convenient, but it seems awfully wasteful to me.
In what way wasteful?
considering the inefficiency of Officer Exchange and Asylum missions, it is a lot less wasteful especially with the most precious resource of all... time.
considering the inefficiency of Officer Exchange and Asylum missions, it is a lot less wasteful especially with the most precious resource of all... time.
But you can fire and forget - I DOFF then log off for the night. Next day its all done. If I get 5 DOFFs from the General Recruitment, that's potentially 5 Greens or better. Now, going higher looks riskier for obvious reasons, but even then I don't lose a DOFF, I just try again later.
If you go for the departmental recruitments, that's 2 days of waiting, plus however long the cooldown is. So those DOFFs cost even more, time-wise, to obtain.
I guess that playstyle really does factor in here. Maybe I'm simply not nearly as efficient as obtaining DOFFs, but they're a limiting factor as well.
edit: I guess the key word was, and is, "seems."
My blog! Zen|Dilithium tracking on Thursdays http://samonmaui.blogspot.com As a lifetime member of STO, I officially became a financial liability as of April 2012 when compared to a subscriber.
But you can fire and forget - I DOFF then log off for the night. Next day its all done. If I get 5 DOFFs from the General Recruitment, that's potentially 5 Greens or better. Now, going higher looks riskier for obvious reasons, but even then I don't lose a DOFF, I just try again later.
If you go for the departmental recruitments, that's 2 days of waiting, plus however long the cooldown is. So those DOFFs cost even more, time-wise, to obtain.
I guess that playstyle really does factor in here. Maybe I'm simply not nearly as efficient as obtaining DOFFs, but they're a limiting factor as well.
Personally I use a combination of assignments, recruitment at sfa and buying packs for EC and I still have just 1 char out of 3 with anything close to a full roster of blues and purples.
There are severla points besides the Dil cost i want to adress that you put up overnight.
1. Yuor estiame on the doff numbers is IMHo wildly over optomistic.
The 2 department specific can be run every 4 days, the non-specific every 3.
Departments give 2 apeice. Exchanges 1, General 4-6. I'd say in any 12 day period i don''t see more than 2, maybe 3 green's, only if the general recruitment packs give a relaly good run will you see more than 5-8 greens a month, somtimes less.
Without general recruitment the average is 36 doff's every 12 days. or 3 a day.
2. There aren't enough embassy missions to exchange all the doffs, and white doff's without any crit traits have very poor chances of giving back a blue or a purple, and can even give back a white. Thast bassiclly another doff that has to be put through them. Your very quicklly going to find that your recruiting them far faster than you can convert them. The grinders are essential for keeping up, and from a raw efficiancy PoV it is allmost certianlly better to convert to green for any without perfect traits before shoving them through.
3. Your still going to have a hell of a lot of blues, obvioslly blues can be quite good, (I've got a nea perfect blue trader on one ton i'd be very hesistant to trade away), but just as often you'll want to start trading them up. You've admited yourself the embassy's et al are terribble for this.
1. Before you make claims abot what a fleet can and can't do. Consider that actual fleet leaders who are the ones stating this is going to kill their progress know better than you ever will what it will do to them.
2. You didn't build your T3 in anything like a normal way. 99% of fleet memebrs will not even have 1 of those Doff assignemts you ground away at on 11 diffrent toons. They won't even be able to get FM's out of Doff'ing. They won't be making and selling MkXIII Purple consles at huge prices from doffing, or otherwise be doing any of the super grindy things you have to do to make huge amounts of EC. If they want Greens for the SB they get lucky drops or they run the grinders. Stick them in the situotion of having to eithier go grind the doff syste for several hours a day, or give up their rep system progreshion for SB progreshion most will instead go. "Hey, i'm not gonna bother with the SB at all".
3. Long experiance from other games tells me, once you get all the colonial's worked out and get your commndations upto getting FM's, and sort the embassies out the aqusition rate comes in pretty god, especially across several toons. But getting there is a long ardoues slog for littile reward. Given my avalibile playing time and the % of that it would take up to do in any resonable timeframe it's just not worth the effort unless i can get decent rewards out for doing them in the first place.
4. For you STO is a main game and your a grindy personality, (as somone who's like that in other games i recognise the type ), whats easy for you is going to be an unaccpetable reality for many many others who aren't grindy types or treat SO as a secondery game.
The fact is the current grinders are vital to how smaller and even medium sizedflets aquire their green and above doff's. They're also a vital speed up for the many in aquiring a doff roster that can give back rewards sutiobale to making the system worth using in a relitivlly quick manner.
What a kick in the jewels. Massive dil upgrade costs, Zen fleet modules for any of the decent retrofits, and now this. Starbases were a perfect opportunity to create a huge EC sink and bring a little health back to the EC economy, but unsurprisingly the whole endeaver was turned into another blatant cash grab instead. It's almost as if Cryptic doesn't want people to play this game at all, just throw money at it. The rampant EC inflation combined with the in your face grind or dollars obstacles everywhere is absolutely trashing the gaming experience.
Gaming is supposed to be fun, not work, and gamers want to feel like valued customers, not cash cows. Push the instant gratification or grinding hell carrot and stick routine too far, and people will just go elsewhere for a leisure experience that's far less obnoxious.
Wasn't sure if I should start a new thread or post here.
I'm with the "vocal minority" in that I don't approve of the changes to the Doff system currently on Tribble. It becomes difficult to believe that Cryptic would be so openly greedy.
Season 7 brings a personal reputation grind, an Embassy grind in addition to the Starbase grind. But to make things a little less fun, we're going to raise the price of trading in unwanted doffs for a random doff through the roof.
I'm not entirely sure if the change to STF rewards are finalized (the removal of dilithium) or just something omitted for the moment.
Overall I'm seeing less ways to gain dilithium with out using Zen and more ways to spend it. When push comes to shove, I'll simply play something else rather than spend money on dilithium.
Wasn't sure if I should start a new thread or post here.
I'm with the "vocal minority" in that I don't approve of the changes to the Doff system currently on Tribble. It becomes difficult to believe that Cryptic would be so openly greedy.
Season 7 brings a personal reputation grind, an Embassy grind in addition to the Starbase grind. But to make things a little less fun, we're going to raise the price of trading in unwanted doffs for a random doff through the roof.
I'm not entirely sure if the change to STF rewards are finalized (the removal of dilithium) or just something omitted for the moment.
Overall I'm seeing less ways to gain dilithium with out using Zen and more ways to spend it. When push comes to shove, I'll simply play something else rather than spend money on dilithium.
I'd say you're in the vocal majority here. The minority doesn't typically get 36 pages into a thread a couple weeks old, and with sentiments almost universally echoed on virtually every chat channel on the game itself.
However, there may be a slowing down of protests, since people feel that there isn't much they can do about it...
...except, of course, not buy it.
Which is the most profound thing of all they can do.
I'd say you're in the vocal majority here. The minority doesn't typically get 36 pages into a thread a couple weeks old, and with sentiments almost universally echoed on virtually every chat channel on the game itself.
However, there may be a slowing down of protests, since people feel that there isn't much they can do about it...
...except, of course, not buy it.
Which is the most profound thing of all they can do.
Typically when ever a large number of posters are in direct disagreement with the developers about a change being made to the game. The developers dismiss the uproar as merely being a vocal minority.
I was simply making a reference to the fact that any protest we make will be dismissed by cryptic.
I think there was a standard reply that they're monitoring the situation and feedback. And in all honesty, I don't think everyone there is qualified to say anything more at the moment, as this isn't just a technical or art asset, but rather economic one. As such I believe there's not much to do at the moment aside to show them that this "vocal minority" isn't really that minor, and provide some constructive feedback in this matter.
That said, I honestly believe that of all recent monetizing efforts on their part this one is definitely the worst and is only going to hurt the game and players' efforts.
It's already difficult to obtain new duty officers of specific categories. Even though larger fleets may be doing quite well with their starbases, the smaller ones rely on all the duty officer recruitments and reassignments they can get. The same goes for dilithium, which is becoming more and more difficult to get (contraband nerf, doff dismiss nerf, getting rid of borg salvage) and is required for nearly everything at the moment - even the embassies and reputation system (and still capped at 8000/day). And now on top of all that we're expected to pay substantial amounts of dilithium for a standard doff pack, as well as all the reassignment missions. Especially the latter is a bad idea, as we're already losing 5 officers for only one of higher category, which may not necessarily be worth more on the exchange, not to mention may not be of the department we'd desire (oh how I dread all the Advisors I've got...).
I'll say this - if Cryptic really want's to monetize this aspect of the game, then at least they should remove any random element out of it. We're expected to lose 5 rare officers and 5000 dilithium for one purple? Well, ok, but at least let us pick its department. I don't think that's asking much. That way at least we'd be able to keep supporting our starbases without resorting to lottery. I mean, paying for doffs is (kind of) fine with me, but leave the randomness to lock boxes, not to one of the main gameplay features.
I'll say this - if Cryptic really want's to monetize this aspect of the game, then at least they should remove any random element out of it. We're expected to lose 5 rare officers and 5000 dilithium for one purple? Well, ok, but at least let us pick its department. I don't think that's asking much. That way at least we'd be able to keep supporting our starbases without resorting to lottery. I mean, paying for doffs is (kind of) fine with me, but leave the randomness to lock boxes, not to one of the main gameplay features.
Indeed -- you can't raise costs from 250 to 5000 dilithium (a factor of 20!) without seriously aggravating the community unless you sweeten the pot by allowing someone to choose the department or specialty. The doff would still be random, either random specialization within a department, or random traits without a specialization, but at least that way doffers are getting something of value to make up for being charged 20 times more.
...you sweeten the pot by allowing someone to choose the department or specialty.
If I am going to take that much of an upcharge, then I want no randomness whatsoever regarding specialization. I want to be able to buy the EXACT specialization I need - not take a risk that if I need a biochemist out of the medical department, I end up with a doctor.
I don't care which biochemist I get, but for that kind of money, I expect a biochemist and not a doc!
Comments
Those prices won't last long with the changes.
The grinder is what's fueling the exchange price of DOffs.
3000 hrs of play time - 80%+ doffing
= 2400 hrs of doffing
Does that explain it in more detail?
Interesting you say that I have been at the grinder for the past 2 hrs now(I have the game running and flip back and forth between forum and game) turning commons into greens to fill the exchange - of course that will stop come Season 7
But by them I will have about $800 million EC so i am not too worried
stoleviathan99 - on a good day i provide the exchange with up to 500+ of the in-demand commons/greens
My guess is that this is the real reason of the change: doffs of high quality were never meant to be as "cheap" as they are now.
Min price for purples used to be $1 million -avg $2 million+
Greens min $100k - now many are 40k
commons were avg 40k and higher for things like security/explosive doffs
All before starbases
No,
Put simply that is not the reason. There is a clear ideology running through this entire season update and that is to introduce dilithium sinks into every facet of the game.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Come launch of season 7 and we all stop - LOL
The exchange should get interesting!!
ZING!!!!...... Ouch, did you feel that, yep that hurts :eek:
Keep in mind, I left out ground gear.
Wow. Now I know why my toon has been walking funny. Poor, poor toon.
But don't worry I will be stocking up on 1000's of greens to sell you when season 7 hits
yes we get it you have a huge e-peen and aren't afraid to use it! we shall duly bow down to you master of the green doffs when Season 7: Dilithium Apocalypse hits
#2311#2700#2316#2500
No need to bow - but I will take lots of EC though! - or contraband as I go through about $5 million worth of it per day.
I'll be ok, all my 3 mains have incomplete space and ground Mk12 sets that just need that "last" piece lol
And all of them have Mk12 borg weapons on several ships in the dock....
Still a sting though, kinda glad I decided to only use one main now and relegate the rest to dilithium grind only.
Everything in this game is now centered around only having one toon. You would be mad to do the new rep system on more than one toon
Will they be introducing a Dilithium cost to the Officer Exchange DOFF missions? The grinder might be fast and convenient, but it seems awfully wasteful to me.
My blog! Zen|Dilithium tracking on Thursdays
http://samonmaui.blogspot.com
As a lifetime member of STO, I officially became a financial liability as of April 2012 when compared to a subscriber.
In what way wasteful?
considering the inefficiency of Officer Exchange and Asylum missions, it is a lot less wasteful especially with the most precious resource of all... time.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
If you go for the departmental recruitments, that's 2 days of waiting, plus however long the cooldown is. So those DOFFs cost even more, time-wise, to obtain.
I guess that playstyle really does factor in here. Maybe I'm simply not nearly as efficient as obtaining DOFFs, but they're a limiting factor as well.
edit: I guess the key word was, and is, "seems."
My blog! Zen|Dilithium tracking on Thursdays
http://samonmaui.blogspot.com
As a lifetime member of STO, I officially became a financial liability as of April 2012 when compared to a subscriber.
Personally I use a combination of assignments, recruitment at sfa and buying packs for EC and I still have just 1 char out of 3 with anything close to a full roster of blues and purples.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
@markhawkman:
There are severla points besides the Dil cost i want to adress that you put up overnight.
1. Yuor estiame on the doff numbers is IMHo wildly over optomistic.
The 2 department specific can be run every 4 days, the non-specific every 3.
Departments give 2 apeice. Exchanges 1, General 4-6. I'd say in any 12 day period i don''t see more than 2, maybe 3 green's, only if the general recruitment packs give a relaly good run will you see more than 5-8 greens a month, somtimes less.
Without general recruitment the average is 36 doff's every 12 days. or 3 a day.
2. There aren't enough embassy missions to exchange all the doffs, and white doff's without any crit traits have very poor chances of giving back a blue or a purple, and can even give back a white. Thast bassiclly another doff that has to be put through them. Your very quicklly going to find that your recruiting them far faster than you can convert them. The grinders are essential for keeping up, and from a raw efficiancy PoV it is allmost certianlly better to convert to green for any without perfect traits before shoving them through.
3. Your still going to have a hell of a lot of blues, obvioslly blues can be quite good, (I've got a nea perfect blue trader on one ton i'd be very hesistant to trade away), but just as often you'll want to start trading them up. You've admited yourself the embassy's et al are terribble for this.
@L:evi3:
1. Before you make claims abot what a fleet can and can't do. Consider that actual fleet leaders who are the ones stating this is going to kill their progress know better than you ever will what it will do to them.
2. You didn't build your T3 in anything like a normal way. 99% of fleet memebrs will not even have 1 of those Doff assignemts you ground away at on 11 diffrent toons. They won't even be able to get FM's out of Doff'ing. They won't be making and selling MkXIII Purple consles at huge prices from doffing, or otherwise be doing any of the super grindy things you have to do to make huge amounts of EC. If they want Greens for the SB they get lucky drops or they run the grinders. Stick them in the situotion of having to eithier go grind the doff syste for several hours a day, or give up their rep system progreshion for SB progreshion most will instead go. "Hey, i'm not gonna bother with the SB at all".
3. Long experiance from other games tells me, once you get all the colonial's worked out and get your commndations upto getting FM's, and sort the embassies out the aqusition rate comes in pretty god, especially across several toons. But getting there is a long ardoues slog for littile reward. Given my avalibile playing time and the % of that it would take up to do in any resonable timeframe it's just not worth the effort unless i can get decent rewards out for doing them in the first place.
4. For you STO is a main game and your a grindy personality, (as somone who's like that in other games i recognise the type
The fact is the current grinders are vital to how smaller and even medium sizedflets aquire their green and above doff's. They're also a vital speed up for the many in aquiring a doff roster that can give back rewards sutiobale to making the system worth using in a relitivlly quick manner.
Gaming is supposed to be fun, not work, and gamers want to feel like valued customers, not cash cows. Push the instant gratification or grinding hell carrot and stick routine too far, and people will just go elsewhere for a leisure experience that's far less obnoxious.
I'm with the "vocal minority" in that I don't approve of the changes to the Doff system currently on Tribble. It becomes difficult to believe that Cryptic would be so openly greedy.
Season 7 brings a personal reputation grind, an Embassy grind in addition to the Starbase grind. But to make things a little less fun, we're going to raise the price of trading in unwanted doffs for a random doff through the roof.
I'm not entirely sure if the change to STF rewards are finalized (the removal of dilithium) or just something omitted for the moment.
Overall I'm seeing less ways to gain dilithium with out using Zen and more ways to spend it. When push comes to shove, I'll simply play something else rather than spend money on dilithium.
I'd say you're in the vocal majority here. The minority doesn't typically get 36 pages into a thread a couple weeks old, and with sentiments almost universally echoed on virtually every chat channel on the game itself.
However, there may be a slowing down of protests, since people feel that there isn't much they can do about it...
...except, of course, not buy it.
Which is the most profound thing of all they can do.
Typically when ever a large number of posters are in direct disagreement with the developers about a change being made to the game. The developers dismiss the uproar as merely being a vocal minority.
I was simply making a reference to the fact that any protest we make will be dismissed by cryptic.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
More than likely being told to stay off the forums until they can find a way to silence us.
That said, I honestly believe that of all recent monetizing efforts on their part this one is definitely the worst and is only going to hurt the game and players' efforts.
It's already difficult to obtain new duty officers of specific categories. Even though larger fleets may be doing quite well with their starbases, the smaller ones rely on all the duty officer recruitments and reassignments they can get. The same goes for dilithium, which is becoming more and more difficult to get (contraband nerf, doff dismiss nerf, getting rid of borg salvage) and is required for nearly everything at the moment - even the embassies and reputation system (and still capped at 8000/day). And now on top of all that we're expected to pay substantial amounts of dilithium for a standard doff pack, as well as all the reassignment missions. Especially the latter is a bad idea, as we're already losing 5 officers for only one of higher category, which may not necessarily be worth more on the exchange, not to mention may not be of the department we'd desire (oh how I dread all the Advisors I've got...).
I'll say this - if Cryptic really want's to monetize this aspect of the game, then at least they should remove any random element out of it. We're expected to lose 5 rare officers and 5000 dilithium for one purple? Well, ok, but at least let us pick its department. I don't think that's asking much. That way at least we'd be able to keep supporting our starbases without resorting to lottery. I mean, paying for doffs is (kind of) fine with me, but leave the randomness to lock boxes, not to one of the main gameplay features.
Indeed -- you can't raise costs from 250 to 5000 dilithium (a factor of 20!) without seriously aggravating the community unless you sweeten the pot by allowing someone to choose the department or specialty. The doff would still be random, either random specialization within a department, or random traits without a specialization, but at least that way doffers are getting something of value to make up for being charged 20 times more.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
If I am going to take that much of an upcharge, then I want no randomness whatsoever regarding specialization. I want to be able to buy the EXACT specialization I need - not take a risk that if I need a biochemist out of the medical department, I end up with a doctor.
I don't care which biochemist I get, but for that kind of money, I expect a biochemist and not a doc!
Either way I don't think we should compromise on this issue at all. Chances are they will just ignore us anyways.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Exactly. This isn't a game design issue, this is PWE fishing for ways to stick it to their customers.